Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Hi, I am new here. Are the Rubidium cell AND Rubidium Lamp still available either from HP/Agilant or another source? I am thinking of buying a HP-5065A and it would be nice if these critical parts were still available! Thanks, Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 12:48 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision Hi Yes, I have poked at the early ones (1980's). They are the only thing I have seen that will beat the HP 5065. There is also a lot of published data on them. Bob On Jul 1, 2012, at 5:43 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Tom, Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements on the ElmerPerkin/EGG Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)? http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
On 07/03/2012 09:02 AM, Ron Ward wrote: Hi, I am new here. Are the Rubidium cell AND Rubidium Lamp still available either from HP/Agilant or another source? I am thinking of buying a HP-5065A and it would be nice if these critical parts were still available! They are not the parts that fails typically. If needed, they seems to be available here. Powersupplies typically fail. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Hi The cells only fail if you drop and break them. The lamps can wear out, but generally don't. The lamps can be found. The power transformer in any of these old beasts is the part that I worry about. Both HP and Tek used very conservative design rules on their transformers, they normally last a long time. Bob On Jul 3, 2012, at 3:02 AM, Ron Ward wrote: Hi, I am new here. Are the Rubidium cell AND Rubidium Lamp still available either from HP/Agilant or another source? I am thinking of buying a HP-5065A and it would be nice if these critical parts were still available! Thanks, Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 12:48 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision Hi Yes, I have poked at the early ones (1980's). They are the only thing I have seen that will beat the HP 5065. There is also a lot of published data on them. Bob On Jul 1, 2012, at 5:43 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Tom, Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements on the ElmerPerkin/EGG Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)? http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Hi: Okay, thanks for the information. Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 1:12 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision On 07/03/2012 09:02 AM, Ron Ward wrote: Hi, I am new here. Are the Rubidium cell AND Rubidium Lamp still available either from HP/Agilant or another source? I am thinking of buying a HP-5065A and it would be nice if these critical parts were still available! They are not the parts that fails typically. If needed, they seems to be available here. Powersupplies typically fail. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Hi: Okay thank you for the information. Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 4:08 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision Hi The cells only fail if you drop and break them. The lamps can wear out, but generally don't. The lamps can be found. The power transformer in any of these old beasts is the part that I worry about. Both HP and Tek used very conservative design rules on their transformers, they normally last a long time. Bob On Jul 3, 2012, at 3:02 AM, Ron Ward wrote: Hi, I am new here. Are the Rubidium cell AND Rubidium Lamp still available either from HP/Agilant or another source? I am thinking of buying a HP-5065A and it would be nice if these critical parts were still available! Thanks, Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 12:48 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision Hi Yes, I have poked at the early ones (1980's). They are the only thing I have seen that will beat the HP 5065. There is also a lot of published data on them. Bob On Jul 1, 2012, at 5:43 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Tom, Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements on the ElmerPerkin/EGG Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)? http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
On 7/1/12 2:43 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Tom, Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements on the ElmerPerkin/EGG Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)? http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf -- are those the ones in GPS satellites? (for instance?) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
-Original Message- From: Jim Lux Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 2:02 PM [] http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf -- are those the ones in GPS satellites? (for instance?) = Jim, The Galileo satellites have both rubidium atomic clocks and the more precise hydrogen maser units - see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17755205 Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Hi Yes, I have poked at the early ones (1980's). They are the only thing I have seen that will beat the HP 5065. There is also a lot of published data on them. Bob On Jul 1, 2012, at 5:43 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Tom, Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements on the ElmerPerkin/EGG Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)? http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
What is it you need? Do you really need an HP-5065 r to do jet need a good 10MHz standard? What is the intended use/ On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 2:19 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Edgardo, I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be worth considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would be better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire... As a time and frequency hobbyist, I feel it is valid to assume my investments as big boy toys. The marvel of accessing a childhood dream of having a frequency and time lab at home, an educational and research niche activity and the possibility to work with this instrument, while cruising the long and torturous path of physics and engineering understanding. You have a nice day! Cheers! Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: What is it you need? Do you really need an HP-5065 r to do jet need a good 10MHz standard? What is the intended use/ On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 2:19 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Edgardo, I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be worth considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would be better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire... OK that is a reasonable use, you just want one.But the Rb units on eBay are much more resent manufacture, better secs and well under $100. But no HP name plate and you must apply the DC power. They score near zero in looks as they are just the bare oscillator. Look at this eBay number: 300719752578 It is a very good unit from a seller many people know. The specs are very good. I bought one like this back when the price was $39 shipped. 300606871861 Mine is preforming very well. It provides a reference for a a few HP Universal Counters. But really if you are setting up a lab at home the first thing you should buy is the Thunderbolt and a good antenna. You will need one to calibrate your Rubidium oscillators. (yes oscillators with a pleural s. how else to cross check them if you have only one?) Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) On Jul 1, 2012, at 21:12, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire... OK that is a reasonable use, you just want one.But the Rb units on eBay are much more resent manufacture, better secs and well under $100. But no HP name plate and you must apply the DC power. They score near zero in looks as they are just the bare oscillator. Look at this eBay number: 300719752578 It is a very good unit from a seller many people know. The specs are very good. I bought one like this back when the price was $39 shipped. 300606871861 Mine is preforming very well. It provides a reference for a a few HP Universal Counters. But really if you are setting up a lab at home the first thing you should buy is the Thunderbolt and a good antenna. You will need one to calibrate your Rubidium oscillators. (yes oscillators with a pleural s. how else to cross check them if you have only one?) Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Shhh, I was hoping he'd succeed in his apparent attempt to drive 5065A prices down, so I can round up a few more for myself! $78 is a great price for an LPRO-101, certainly, but you can't compare them to the HP rubidiums. The latter's specs (as well as its secs) are vastly better. Edgardo, I don't know if you've seen the relative performance that can be expected from various Rb standards, but if not, check out http://www.ke5fx.com/rb.htm and N8UR's plots at http://febo.com/pages/oscillators/rubes/ (which were taken with a 5065A as the reference.) This is why it's worth the effort to bring an HP 5065A back from the dead, even if the cost is higher than an LPRO or PRS10. The real problem with the 5065A is that it represents the end of the line for most noncommercial users. There are no further upgrade possibilities for taus out to several hours -- not even the best commercial cesium standards -- until you get into masers. -- john, KE5FX www.miles.io Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) On Jul 1, 2012, at 21:12, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Tom, Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements on the ElmerPerkin/EGG Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)? http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
John Miles said the following on 07/01/2012 05:18 PM: The real problem with the 5065A is that it represents the end of the line for most noncommercial users. There are no further upgrade possibilities for taus out to several hours -- not even the best commercial cesium standards -- until you get into masers. This is a really good (and frustrating!) point. The 5065A is not stellar at taus less than a few seconds -- mine doesn't quite hit 1x10e-12 at 1 second -- but from that point out to at least 10K seconds, it's extraordinary. Here's a plot I did recently of the short-term stability of some atomics, versus a BVA which is below 3x10e-13 from 0.1 out to 10K seconds. You can infer how good the 5065A is at medium tau from the fact that it's still on the way down when the BVA aging starts to show at around 600 seconds: http://www.febo.com/pages/oscillators/atomics/ I'm still planning to do a (long) comparison of the 5065A vs. my best Cs or a GPSDO to see if I can find its floor. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear John, Totally agree with your point of view. Thank you for the links. Information quite impressive and interesting. Bringing one HP5065a back from death... It reminds me about the times I restored my wristwatches to mint condition, even though they looked like what the cat brought in, at the time I found them living in oblivion. When something is worth restoring, it can certainly be painful in the process but achievable with time and patience. You have a nice week. Regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 4:18 PM, John Miles wrote: Shhh, I was hoping he'd succeed in his apparent attempt to drive 5065A prices down, so I can round up a few more for myself! $78 is a great price for an LPRO-101, certainly, but you can't compare them to the HP rubidiums. The latter's specs (as well as its secs) are vastly better. Edgardo, I don't know if you've seen the relative performance that can be expected from various Rb standards, but if not, check out http://www.ke5fx.com/rb.htm and N8UR's plots at http://febo.com/pages/oscillators/rubes/ (which were taken with a 5065A as the reference.) This is why it's worth the effort to bring an HP 5065A back from the dead, even if the cost is higher than an LPRO or PRS10. The real problem with the 5065A is that it represents the end of the line for most noncommercial users. There are no further upgrade possibilities for taus out to several hours -- not even the best commercial cesium standards -- until you get into masers. -- john, KE5FX www.miles.io Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) On Jul 1, 2012, at 21:12, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Chris, Thanks for the advise. It is always nice to have different opinions and points of view. I have heard about the dependability of Efratom products while doing my research homework. An Rb oscillator like that surely could be a good bet considering your vision of the plural concept of oscillator. I agree. As in many of my other scientific/tecnical projects, I usually do not feel that all of my bases are covered with only one brand or example of any of the items that I so much enjoy as hobbies. I will seriously consider your kind advise and look forward meeting you whenever visiting Rancho Palos Verdes, as I usually do, in the future. Kind regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 2:12 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire... OK that is a reasonable use, you just want one.But the Rb units on eBay are much more resent manufacture, better secs and well under $100. But no HP name plate and you must apply the DC power. They score near zero in looks as they are just the bare oscillator. Look at this eBay number: 300719752578 It is a very good unit from a seller many people know. The specs are very good. I bought one like this back when the price was $39 shipped. 300606871861 Mine is preforming very well. It provides a reference for a a few HP Universal Counters. But really if you are setting up a lab at home the first thing you should buy is the Thunderbolt and a good antenna. You will need one to calibrate your Rubidium oscillators. (yes oscillators with a pleural s. how else to cross check them if you have only one?) Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Have you checked the price of comparable units in eBay. Many of us bought some quite usable Rb oscillators for $40 each but I think the price might be up to $60 by now. On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 11:27 PM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Edgardo: For the asking price, you can do a LOT better than this Hp. There will be more opinions from more knowledgeable time-nuts regarding your choices, I would consider them carefully. Again, you do not need to spend anything like $1k US to get what you need. Don Edgardo Molina Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Edgardo, On 06/30/2012 08:27 AM, Edgardo Molina wrote: Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. I would guess that you need to trim it so it locks up. Not all that hard. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I would assume that the 2nd harmonic is essentially zero, as frequency is off, assuming you had a good reference. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. I think it is a bit high asking-price for the state it is in, but these are quite serviceable and it may take some trimming for them to lock up. It's all in the manual. The operation light on one of mine never turns on, since the lamp has burned out. This is normal maintenance one should expect. You rarely use 100 kHz today anyway, the only time I use it is to check that it works. cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Edgardo, The 5065A is a great unit but the price is over the top for a questionable unit. If fully meeting specs, the price is still very high, IMO. The observations you report are likely simple repairs. The great unknown is whether it will 'lock' or not? That is to say will the Continuous Operation light come on? The 'ovens' all typically go full scale pegged when initially turned on then come down 'on scale' when warm. Photo I will be 0 then come up as the lamp warms up. 2nd Harmonic comes up as the Rubidium Vapor Frequency Reference unit warms up. Once things are on scale, switch from Loop Open to Oper, push the Logic Reset button and the Continuous Operation light should come on, assuming the 5 MHz oscillator is close to being on frequency. Also, the indicator lamps are commonly burned out or the lenses are missing. There are easy to replace indicators that use the same bulb that you can install in place of the lamp assemblies if needed. I can send you the part numbers for these if needed. Hope this helps. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Edgardo Molina Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:27 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Chris, Thank you for your advise. Yes I have seen the Ebay units below a hundred dollars. I have been attracted by those units, but I have been unable to find a USA seller. Most of them are being offered by chinese ebayers. I haven't ordered anything from China through Ebay yet. Still I can order anything from the USA. I have seen frequency adjustable units. 1Hz to 20Mhz. I am still in diapers in this field of time and frequency experimentation. I am building a couple of nixie clocks and plan to do some disciplining using Rubidium, GPS and WWVB. Among all those second hand rubidium modules, could you please share some advise on brands models? There are so many variations. I am aware most of them are in their end of life cycle. I have learned some can be restored by using focalized heat on the Rb cells. Still I haven't made a decision. I have a decent electronics lab at home and could build or test those units to find their best abilities. Interesting how nowadays those frequency standards are so readily available. Your kind comments are always welcome. Thank you all for taking the time to share ideas and advise with me. I promise to keep the thread up to the expected standards. Regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jun 30, 2012, at 2:58 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Have you checked the price of comparable units in eBay. Many of us bought some quite usable Rb oscillators for $40 each but I think the price might be up to $60 by now. On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 11:27 PM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Don, Good morning. Like probably many others, owning or collecting nice pieces of equipment probably drove me to consider an HP unit, instead of wisely doing some research on more specific and technically feasible options. The search is only beginning. Your advise is welcome. Thank you. Best regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jun 30, 2012, at 3:05 AM, Don Latham wrote: Edgardo: For the asking price, you can do a LOT better than this Hp. There will be more opinions from more knowledgeable time-nuts regarding your choices, I would consider them carefully. Again, you do not need to spend anything like $1k US to get what you need. Don Edgardo Molina Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
hi Edgardo, The best one in that price range is probably the PRS-10 from SRS. New it's about $1500, sometimes they go used for $500 if you can find one they are very desirable. Can be locked to an external GPS, a huge plus. Their tube is designed for 20+ years lifetime. Has excellent ADEV and phase noise. As an external Gps consider a Motorola/iLotus M12M receiver. That combo is a professional level system, and with a bit of tinkering you can even implement sawtooth correction as described in the time nuts archives. Total cost used: under $700 with power supplies and enclosure.. But may require some patience and research to find one. Don't touch the cesium beam units unless you can get a guarantee and someone can tell you how much cesium remains in them, most of them have depleted tubes that cannot be refilled and cost more than a small car to replace with a new one. Bye, Said Sent from my iPad On Jun 30, 2012, at 8:41, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Don, Good morning. Like probably many others, owning or collecting nice pieces of equipment probably drove me to consider an HP unit, instead of wisely doing some research on more specific and technically feasible options. The search is only beginning. Your advise is welcome. Thank you. Best regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jun 30, 2012, at 3:05 AM, Don Latham wrote: Edgardo: For the asking price, you can do a LOT better than this Hp. There will be more opinions from more knowledgeable time-nuts regarding your choices, I would consider them carefully. Again, you do not need to spend anything like $1k US to get what you need. Don Edgardo Molina Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Joe and Magnus, Thank you both for your advise. I see that fisrt of all, the price for the unit I am describing is far from reality. Just imagine that I have been negotiating a lower price for the unit in this condition. They were initially asking around $1.3K. Go figure! Just for my peace of mind, I will visit the dealer again next week to double check on everything you have mentioned. If the dealer is willing to go down in price and I can take a better look, what could a decent fair market price could be? I do not have enough information from Ebay as to figure out a price and condition for an HP5065 unit. Anyway, the instrument is not that bulky or heavy. I have imported heavier and bigger amateur radio rigs and HP lab instruments from the USA and could be better if I start looking for opportunities around your latitude. One more thing. What is the useful life of an instrument such as this one? This is a beige version. Still something nearly my age! I assume there are no replacements for the Rb cell other than probably trying to restore it with focalized heated air like the smaller Rb modules so available today. Your comments again are welcome. Thank you. Regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Edgardo, The 5065A is a great unit but the price is over the top for a questionable unit. If fully meeting specs, the price is still very high, IMO. The observations you report are likely simple repairs. The great unknown is whether it will 'lock' or not? That is to say will the Continuous Operation light come on? The 'ovens' all typically go full scale pegged when initially turned on then come down 'on scale' when warm. Photo I will be 0 then come up as the lamp warms up. 2nd Harmonic comes up as the Rubidium Vapor Frequency Reference unit warms up. Once things are on scale, switch from Loop Open to Oper, push the Logic Reset button and the Continuous Operation light should come on, assuming the 5 MHz oscillator is close to being on frequency. Also, the indicator lamps are commonly burned out or the lenses are missing. There are easy to replace indicators that use the same bulb that you can install in place of the lamp assemblies if needed. I can send you the part numbers for these if needed. Hope this helps. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Edgardo Molina Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:27 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Said, Thank you for your advise on a complete time and frequency package. I haven't heard of those models yet. I will look after your recommendation and certainly will let you know if something shows before even considering a purchase. GPS synch is a big plus as you mention. I rather be attentive to the prey coming out of the rabbit hole. Regarding Cesium, still far away from my current budget. Not discarding the idea in the future, but I would have to learn and walk the steep learning curve of time and frequency experimentation first. Thank you for your kind advise. I will keep my eyes wide open for opportunities and how to evaluate them. Kind regards, Edgardo Molina On Jun 30, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Said Jackson wrote: hi Edgardo, The best one in that price range is probably the PRS-10 from SRS. New it's about $1500, sometimes they go used for $500 if you can find one they are very desirable. Can be locked to an external GPS, a huge plus. Their tube is designed for 20+ years lifetime. Has excellent ADEV and phase noise. As an external Gps consider a Motorola/iLotus M12M receiver. That combo is a professional level system, and with a bit of tinkering you can even implement sawtooth correction as described in the time nuts archives. Total cost used: under $700 with power supplies and enclosure.. But may require some patience and research to find one. Don't touch the cesium beam units unless you can get a guarantee and someone can tell you how much cesium remains in them, most of them have depleted tubes that cannot be refilled and cost more than a small car to replace with a new one. Bye, Said XE1XUS Sent from my iPad On Jun 30, 2012, at 8:41, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Don, Good morning. Like probably many others, owning or collecting nice pieces of equipment probably drove me to consider an HP unit, instead of wisely doing some research on more specific and technically feasible options. The search is only beginning. Your advise is welcome. Thank you. Best regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jun 30, 2012, at 3:05 AM, Don Latham wrote: Edgardo: For the asking price, you can do a LOT better than this Hp. There will be more opinions from more knowledgeable time-nuts regarding your choices, I would consider them carefully. Again, you do not need to spend anything like $1k US to get what you need. Don Edgardo Molina Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time- Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico ___ time-nuts mailing list --
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
On 06/30/2012 06:27 PM, Edgardo Molina wrote: Dear Said, Thank you for your advise on a complete time and frequency package. I haven't heard of those models yet. I will look after your recommendation and certainly will let you know if something shows before even considering a purchase. GPS synch is a big plus as you mention. I rather be attentive to the prey coming out of the rabbit hole. The PRS-10 is very handy and current. You also can monitor the state over serial port, which is great to get an overview. Regarding Cesium, still far away from my current budget. Not discarding the idea in the future, but I would have to learn and walk the steep learning curve of time and frequency experimentation first. Thank you for your kind advise. I will keep my eyes wide open for opportunities and how to evaluate them. A good rubidium and a good GPS with a good antenna can do small wonders for you. Cesium is nice for some stuff, but you most probably want them turned off on the daily basis. Replacement cesium tubes is expensive. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Edgardo, I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be worth considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would be better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these. It also depends on where you are. On eBay, these numbers might be good. In Mexico, might be more, depending on what the choices are. If you are looking at it and can verify it's function, you avoid the 'pig in the poke' aspects of eBay. Magnus, you mentioned that you were looking for a power supply board, IIRC. I sent you an email after I got mine fixed but never heard back. Do you still need a power supply board? Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Edgardo Molina Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:22 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision Dear Joe and Magnus, Thank you both for your advise. I see that fisrt of all, the price for the unit I am describing is far from reality. Just imagine that I have been negotiating a lower price for the unit in this condition. They were initially asking around $1.3K. Go figure! Just for my peace of mind, I will visit the dealer again next week to double check on everything you have mentioned. If the dealer is willing to go down in price and I can take a better look, what could a decent fair market price could be? I do not have enough information from Ebay as to figure out a price and condition for an HP5065 unit. Anyway, the instrument is not that bulky or heavy. I have imported heavier and bigger amateur radio rigs and HP lab instruments from the USA and could be better if I start looking for opportunities around your latitude. One more thing. What is the useful life of an instrument such as this one? This is a beige version. Still something nearly my age! I assume there are no replacements for the Rb cell other than probably trying to restore it with focalized heated air like the smaller Rb modules so available today. Your comments again are welcome. Thank you. Regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Edgardo, The 5065A is a great unit but the price is over the top for a questionable unit. If fully meeting specs, the price is still very high, IMO. The observations you report are likely simple repairs. The great unknown is whether it will 'lock' or not? That is to say will the Continuous Operation light come on? The 'ovens' all typically go full scale pegged when initially turned on then come down 'on scale' when warm. Photo I will be 0 then come up as the lamp warms up. 2nd Harmonic comes up as the Rubidium Vapor Frequency Reference unit warms up. Once things are on scale, switch from Loop Open to Oper, push the Logic Reset button and the Continuous Operation light should come on, assuming the 5 MHz oscillator is close to being on frequency. Also, the indicator lamps are commonly burned out or the lenses are missing. There are easy to replace indicators that use the same bulb that you can install in place of the lamp assemblies if needed. I can send you the part numbers for these if needed. Hope this helps. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Edgardo Molina Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:27 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Edgardo, I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be worth considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would be better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these. Just to have it on record, anyone who is having trouble unloading a working 5065A for $500 should contact me offline. :) -- john, KE5FX www.miles.io ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
