Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:37:36 -0700 jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: J. Forster wrote: If you decide to go the zinc/acid route (a very bad idea, IMO) you will need a compressor. I'd not want anything to do with that! I like living. A Lecture Bottle is the way to go. Why would you compress it.. I imagine that you need micrograms of H2.. (it *is* almost a vacuum, right?).. And yes, zinc/acid probably is a bad way... How about electrolysis of distilled water. (I know you're not going to think that sodium/H2O is a good approach, eh?) In one of the papers i've read (which i'm currently unable to find), they used a electrolysis of KOH with a purifier. I don't know about KOH but NaOH is quite easy to get in large quantities. The only prob with it might be to keep it from taking too much water in. (on the other hand a lecture bottle is cheap and easy.. but this *is* time-nuts, where sometimes we like advocating the hard way... so what about some exotic nuclear reaction that throws off protons...I hesitate to suggest fissioning He, if it's even possible...) Single protons wont do it. The hyperfine line a H maser taps into is comes from the difference of the orientation of spins between the proton and its electron. And if i got it correctyl, you also have to make sure that the atom isn't excited in any way. Which isn't exactly easy if you start with a single proton and let it recombine with an electron. Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:08:13 + Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? It is a saphire tube, a readily available, if not exactly cheap, commodity. Why saphir? Aluminia (AlO2) seems to be used as well to load H maser cavities. Or is saphir in some way better? Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
In message 20100902082809.fff6c994.att...@kinali.ch, Attila Kinali writes: On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:37:36 -0700 In one of the papers i've read (which i'm currently unable to find), they used a electrolysis of KOH with a purifier. I don't know about KOH but NaOH is quite easy to get in large quantities. The only prob with it might be to keep it from taking too much water in. Normally you would use glaubersalt, (NA2SO4 I belive) to increase conductivity in small electrolysis setups, where you do not want any aggressive chemicals. If you are more tolerant, you simply add a couple of drops of sulfuric acid. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
In message 20100902083014.d223768b.att...@kinali.ch, Attila Kinali writes: On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:08:13 + Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: Why saphir? Aluminia (AlO2) seems to be used as well to load H maser cavities. Or is saphir in some way better? No idea, that's the paper I found... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Attila Kinali wrote: On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:08:13 + Poul-Henning Kampp...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? It is a saphire tube, a readily available, if not exactly cheap, commodity. Why saphir? Aluminia (AlO2) seems to be used as well to load H maser cavities. Or is saphir in some way better? Attila Kinali Sapphire and ruby are slightly impure varieties of corundum the single crystal form of aluminium oxide. Sapphire and rubies just have different inpurities that impart colour to the gem. The microwave loss in single crystal alumina (sapphire, corundum) may be somewhat lower than for the polycrystalline form. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Hi all, The Neuchatel MASER was build by Oscilloquartz in Neuchatel/Switzerland... Maybe somebody has the full coordinates of that :-) Oscilloquartz SA, http://www.oscilloquartz.com/ Brévards 16 2002 Neuchâtel Switzerland phone : +4132 722 fax : +4132 722 5556 Regards Karesz 2010/9/1 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org: On 09/01/2010 09:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message24c547b54ea34a69bacc4f823bb40...@pc52, Tom Van Baak writes: I found the original copies of both EFOS manuals, along with a few photos. See: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/ Interesting. Page 4/3 in the service manual states: For the Hydrogen Maser, this unperturbed frequency is f(H) = 1 420 405 751.768 +/- 0.002 Hz In practice, this frequency is perturbed by interaction of the hydrogen atoms with the walls of the interaction volume container, doppler effects, interactions between the atoms themsel- ves, etc. The resulting frequency for the EFOS Maser is taken to be F(o) = 1 420 405 751.689 Hz I have no idea where the EFOS was produced, but somebody should try to calculate the relativistic correction for their height above the geoid, and see how much of the systematic 0.079Hz frequency difference that explains... Neuchatel, which still leaves a bit of unspecified height. However, this effect would be cancelled as their cesium clocks would be on the same height above the geoid (give or take a few meters). So, their indication is correct. The C-field also pulls the atoms of course, which they failed to point out in the cited text. If I were to build a maser myself, I would probably not attempt to copy the EFOS, as the large mechanical dimensions add significant cost in materials and machining. I would be much more tempted by a sapphire loaded cavity design like this one: http://www.nict.go.jp/publication/shuppan/kihou-journal/journal-vol50no1.2/0304.pdf) As that brings the mechanics inside the work envelope of main-stream CNC machines with the required tolerances. Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
jimlux wrote: paul swed wrote: So by those pictures you actually have it working? Crazy question do you just drive down to your local air gas company and by some hydrogen. How do you fill the red bottle? Just down loaded the tech manual earlier printed out the ops manual. Thanks Basically, yes.. you can order up a tank of H2 pretty easily. However, I would think you need a fairly pure grade (e.g. oxyhydrogen welding grade aint gonna cut it).. For small amounts, a lecture bottle (2 cu ft at STP) would probably be the way to go. Or, generate it yourself (zinc and acid, for instance) That won't make pure H2, it will be loaded with water, and acid fumes. You will have to apply the same techniques to clean H2 made that way as you would need to use to clean welding grade H2. A nice cryotrap would probably do the trick. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual (2)
If the thing has a variable cap to tune the osc. My bet is thats the devil. In cheapy telco RBs they have given me lots of trouble. On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:40 PM, John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote: Good point -- I should swap out the feedthrough as well. There is only one in this case, for the power lead-in, but if it is growing internal whiskers or otherwise failing I could see it causing this symptom... -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on Behalf Of Kit Scally Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:34 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Maser manual (2) John, I'd put money on one of the feedthrough caps (easily damaged upon installation) in the Maser for such small jumps. From memory, the 5065A uses SM components, but these could be guilty. I've learned many abstract things I'd never otherwise come across in this thread on home-built masers. I for one would like to see more mileage on this topic although I'm not sure there's $25k in my Xmas box for the necessary parts to build one ! Kit VK2LL snip The 5065A is showing occasional phase jumps on the order of 10-100 ps that coincide with small spikes in the current drawn by the lamp exciter, and I'm leaning towards blaming the silver-mica B-E feedback capacitor. (It even has the same designation in both instruments' service manuals, C2.) Tom: this is why your BVA was appearing to jump when I measured it. :-P -- john, KE5FX snip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
So, the see of Neuchatel has 429 meter o.NN, the city of Neuchatel/Neuenburg is on so 430-470m. Somebody can calculate yet a correction - if needed/likes... K. 2010/9/2 K. Szeker szeke...@gmail.com: I have the coodinates yet too(but not the hight over see): 46.991347,6.913806 regards 2010/9/2 K. Szeker szeke...@gmail.com: Hi all, The Neuchatel MASER was build by Oscilloquartz in Neuchatel/Switzerland... Maybe somebody has the full coordinates of that :-) Oscilloquartz SA, http://www.oscilloquartz.com/ Brévards 16 2002 Neuchâtel Switzerland phone : +4132 722 fax : +4132 722 5556 Regards Karesz 2010/9/1 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org: On 09/01/2010 09:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message24c547b54ea34a69bacc4f823bb40...@pc52, Tom Van Baak writes: I found the original copies of both EFOS manuals, along with a few photos. See: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/ Interesting. Page 4/3 in the service manual states: For the Hydrogen Maser, this unperturbed frequency is f(H) = 1 420 405 751.768 +/- 0.002 Hz In practice, this frequency is perturbed by interaction of the hydrogen atoms with the walls of the interaction volume container, doppler effects, interactions between the atoms themsel- ves, etc. The resulting frequency for the EFOS Maser is taken to be F(o) = 1 420 405 751.689 Hz I have no idea where the EFOS was produced, but somebody should try to calculate the relativistic correction for their height above the geoid, and see how much of the systematic 0.079Hz frequency difference that explains... Neuchatel, which still leaves a bit of unspecified height. However, this effect would be cancelled as their cesium clocks would be on the same height above the geoid (give or take a few meters). So, their indication is correct. The C-field also pulls the atoms of course, which they failed to point out in the cited text. If I were to build a maser myself, I would probably not attempt to copy the EFOS, as the large mechanical dimensions add significant cost in materials and machining. I would be much more tempted by a sapphire loaded cavity design like this one: http://www.nict.go.jp/publication/shuppan/kihou-journal/journal-vol50no1.2/0304.pdf) As that brings the mechanics inside the work envelope of main-stream CNC machines with the required tolerances. Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:37:36 -0700 jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: J. Forster wrote: If you decide to go the zinc/acid route (a very bad idea, IMO) you will need a compressor. I'd not want anything to do with that! I like living. A Lecture Bottle is the way to go. Why would you compress it.. I imagine that you need micrograms of H2.. (it *is* almost a vacuum, right?).. You need a pressure differential across the Palladium plug used to control the H2 flow into the MASER. At a first glance the 1 Atm seems too low, but might be enough if you heat the Palladium hot enough. It's an engineering tradeoff and I've not done the analysis. Comment: When contemplating something like making a MASER, you want to buy things off the shelf, if at all possible. I'd buy a Lecture Bottle of H2 and a regulator for $100 or so and move on to the next step. It's not an exercise in building a working unit on a desert island from sand and coconut shells. And yes, zinc/acid probably is a bad way... How about electrolysis of distilled water. (I know you're not going to think that sodium/H2O is a good approach, eh?) In one of the papers i've read (which i'm currently unable to find), they used a electrolysis of KOH with a purifier. I don't know about KOH but NaOH is quite easy to get in large quantities. The only prob with it might be to keep it from taking too much water in. (on the other hand a lecture bottle is cheap and easy.. but this *is* time-nuts, where sometimes we like advocating the hard way... so what about some exotic nuclear reaction that throws off protons...I hesitate to suggest fissioning He, if it's even possible...) Single protons wont do it. The hyperfine line a H maser taps into is comes from the difference of the orientation of spins between the proton and its electron. And if i got it correctyl, you also have to make sure that the atom isn't excited in any way. Which isn't exactly easy if you start with a single proton and let it recombine with an electron. Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
So by those pictures you actually have it working? Crazy question do you just drive down to your local air gas company and by some hydrogen. How do you fill the red bottle? Just down loaded the tech manual earlier printed out the ops manual. Thanks On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: I found the original copies of both EFOS manuals, along with a few photos. See: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/ /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
In message 24c547b54ea34a69bacc4f823bb40...@pc52, Tom Van Baak writes: I found the original copies of both EFOS manuals, along with a few photos. See: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/ Interesting. Page 4/3 in the service manual states: For the Hydrogen Maser, this unperturbed frequency is f(H) = 1 420 405 751.768 +/- 0.002 Hz In practice, this frequency is perturbed by interaction of the hydrogen atoms with the walls of the interaction volume container, doppler effects, interactions between the atoms themsel- ves, etc. The resulting frequency for the EFOS Maser is taken to be F(o) = 1 420 405 751.689 Hz I have no idea where the EFOS was produced, but somebody should try to calculate the relativistic correction for their height above the geoid, and see how much of the systematic 0.079Hz frequency difference that explains... If I were to build a maser myself, I would probably not attempt to copy the EFOS, as the large mechanical dimensions add significant cost in materials and machining. I would be much more tempted by a sapphire loaded cavity design like this one: http://www.nict.go.jp/publication/shuppan/kihou-journal/journal-vol50no1.2/0304.pdf) As that brings the mechanics inside the work envelope of main-stream CNC machines with the required tolerances. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
On 09/01/2010 09:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message24c547b54ea34a69bacc4f823bb40...@pc52, Tom Van Baak writes: I found the original copies of both EFOS manuals, along with a few photos. See: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/ Interesting. Page 4/3 in the service manual states: For the Hydrogen Maser, this unperturbed frequency is f(H) = 1 420 405 751.768 +/- 0.002 Hz In practice, this frequency is perturbed by interaction of the hydrogen atoms with the walls of the interaction volume container, doppler effects, interactions between the atoms themsel- ves, etc. The resulting frequency for the EFOS Maser is taken to be F(o) = 1 420 405 751.689 Hz I have no idea where the EFOS was produced, but somebody should try to calculate the relativistic correction for their height above the geoid, and see how much of the systematic 0.079Hz frequency difference that explains... Neuchatel, which still leaves a bit of unspecified height. However, this effect would be cancelled as their cesium clocks would be on the same height above the geoid (give or take a few meters). So, their indication is correct. The C-field also pulls the atoms of course, which they failed to point out in the cited text. If I were to build a maser myself, I would probably not attempt to copy the EFOS, as the large mechanical dimensions add significant cost in materials and machining. I would be much more tempted by a sapphire loaded cavity design like this one: http://www.nict.go.jp/publication/shuppan/kihou-journal/journal-vol50no1.2/0304.pdf) As that brings the mechanics inside the work envelope of main-stream CNC machines with the required tolerances. Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
In message 4c7eb129.2090...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes: On 09/01/2010 09:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? It is a saphire tube, a readily available, if not exactly cheap, commodity. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Magnus Danielson wrote: On 09/01/2010 09:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message24c547b54ea34a69bacc4f823bb40...@pc52, Tom Van Baak writes: I found the original copies of both EFOS manuals, along with a few photos. See: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/ Interesting. Page 4/3 in the service manual states: For the Hydrogen Maser, this unperturbed frequency is f(H) = 1 420 405 751.768 +/- 0.002 Hz In practice, this frequency is perturbed by interaction of the hydrogen atoms with the walls of the interaction volume container, doppler effects, interactions between the atoms themsel- ves, etc. The resulting frequency for the EFOS Maser is taken to be F(o) = 1 420 405 751.689 Hz I have no idea where the EFOS was produced, but somebody should try to calculate the relativistic correction for their height above the geoid, and see how much of the systematic 0.079Hz frequency difference that explains... Neuchatel, which still leaves a bit of unspecified height. However, this effect would be cancelled as their cesium clocks would be on the same height above the geoid (give or take a few meters). So, their indication is correct. The C-field also pulls the atoms of course, which they failed to point out in the cited text. If I were to build a maser myself, I would probably not attempt to copy the EFOS, as the large mechanical dimensions add significant cost in materials and machining. I would be much more tempted by a sapphire loaded cavity design like this one: http://www.nict.go.jp/publication/shuppan/kihou-journal/journal-vol50no1.2/0304.pdf) As that brings the mechanics inside the work envelope of main-stream CNC machines with the required tolerances. Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? The tempco of the dielectric constant of sapphire is quite large so the cavity resonance tempco is somewhat larger than that of an unloaded copper or aluminium cavity. There is a NIST paper detailing a somewhat earlier attempt to use a dielectric cavity: http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/156.pdf Again the dielectric constant tempco is a significant issue. Cheers, Magnus Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
In message 4c7eb534.2040...@xtra.co.nz, Bruce Griffiths writes: The tempco of the dielectric constant of sapphire is quite large so the cavity resonance tempco is somewhat larger than that of an unloaded copper or aluminium cavity. Yes, they write that cavity autotuning is a must. I still think that is a smaller problem than getting hold of and maching an unloaded cavity with the necessary shields. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
An early analysis of a fused silica loaded cavity by Sigma Tau: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA497003Location=U2doc=GetTRDoc.pdf http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA497003Location=U2doc=GetTRDoc.pdf Although the dielectric constant tempco and thermal expansion tempco of fused silica is low so is the dielectric constant so the reduction in cavity volume is relatively small. The reduced Q of a dielectric loaded cavity may also be an issue in the absence of cryogenic cavity cooling. Bruce Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message4c7eb534.2040...@xtra.co.nz, Bruce Griffiths writes: The tempco of the dielectric constant of sapphire is quite large so the cavity resonance tempco is somewhat larger than that of an unloaded copper or aluminium cavity. Yes, they write that cavity autotuning is a must. I still think that is a smaller problem than getting hold of and maching an unloaded cavity with the necessary shields. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Maser manual
Paul, Yes it is operating. With the exception of some down times to replace each of the ion pumps when they failed (at separate times) it has been running nonstop for 3 years. I also had to replace the disassociator oscillator with an oscillator/amplifier of my own design. Also replaced the original 1.4Ghz RF amp (2.8db NF) with a modern amp having a .4db noise figure. Had to refill the little hydrogen bottle once so far. (via a homebrew manifold and a tank of ultra pure H2) The local gas co. does provide the H2 but the adaptor for refilling is homebrew as the vintage European hydrogen bottle fittings are no longer available. I'll see if I can post a PIX or two of the Vacsorb pumping station and the ion pumps. Corby Dawson cdel...@juno.com Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c7ebc25c1b6fdd40em04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Corby, It might be easier to just make an adapter for Lecture Bottles for the H2 supply. Also, the H2 probably does not have to be Research Grade. The inflow is through a Palladium Valve which is a diffusion device ans only passes H2 at any significant rate. Best, -John = Paul, Yes it is operating. With the exception of some down times to replace each of the ion pumps when they failed (at separate times) it has been running nonstop for 3 years. I also had to replace the disassociator oscillator with an oscillator/amplifier of my own design. Also replaced the original 1.4Ghz RF amp (2.8db NF) with a modern amp having a .4db noise figure. Had to refill the little hydrogen bottle once so far. (via a homebrew manifold and a tank of ultra pure H2) The local gas co. does provide the H2 but the adaptor for refilling is homebrew as the vintage European hydrogen bottle fittings are no longer available. I'll see if I can post a PIX or two of the Vacsorb pumping station and the ion pumps. Corby Dawson cdel...@juno.com Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c7ebc25c1b6fdd40em04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Corby Thanks. So it really uses very little hydrogen then. I was wondering about the refill process. Definitely like the red glow of the hydrogen. I find the unique orange/purple hue of the RB interesting. Have seen it while trying to get the last ounce of life out of old telco Rbs. On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Corby Dawson cdel...@juno.com wrote: Paul, Yes it is operating. With the exception of some down times to replace each of the ion pumps when they failed (at separate times) it has been running nonstop for 3 years. I also had to replace the disassociator oscillator with an oscillator/amplifier of my own design. Also replaced the original 1.4Ghz RF amp (2.8db NF) with a modern amp having a .4db noise figure. Had to refill the little hydrogen bottle once so far. (via a homebrew manifold and a tank of ultra pure H2) The local gas co. does provide the H2 but the adaptor for refilling is homebrew as the vintage European hydrogen bottle fittings are no longer available. I'll see if I can post a PIX or two of the Vacsorb pumping station and the ion pumps. Corby Dawson cdel...@juno.com Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c7ebc25c1b6fdd40em04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Reading the tech manual. The Hmaser only draws 100 watts. Thats far less then I thought it did. I guess the shear size of the cavity makes it appear like a power beast. On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Corby Dawson cdel...@juno.com wrote: The operation manual for the EFOS maser is on Tom Van Baaks website http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/efos-1.pdf Maintenance manual will follow later as I have to mail a CD to him with the 2nd manual. Corby Dawson 1 Tip for Losing Weight Cut down 2 lbs per week by using this 1 weird old tip http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c7d7478f168ad9e53m04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Is that anything like an Interocitor? Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Corby Dawson Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:48 PM - snip -- I also had to replace the disassociator oscillator with an oscillator/amplifier of my own design. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
More like the Plasma Balls the New Agers so love. -John Is that anything like an Interocitor? Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Corby Dawson Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:48 PM - snip -- I also had to replace the disassociator oscillator with an oscillator/amplifier of my own design. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Hi Corby, On the dissociator, do you have any indications that the helix on the bulb is, in fact, a helical resonator for the dissociator frequency? Also, when filling the H2 tank, you might want to put the receiver tank into a bucket of water. It can really heat up during filling because of the adiabatic compression of the H2. Best, -John [snip] I also had to replace the disassociator oscillator with an oscillator/amplifier of my own design. Also replaced the original 1.4Ghz RF amp (2.8db NF) with a modern amp having a .4db noise figure. Had to refill the little hydrogen bottle once so far. (via a homebrew manifold and a tank of ultra pure H2) The local gas co. does provide the H2 but the adaptor for refilling is homebrew as the vintage European hydrogen bottle fittings are no longer available. I'll see if I can post a PIX or two of the Vacsorb pumping station and the ion pumps. Corby Dawson cdel...@juno.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
What was wrong with the original oscillator, out of curiosity? I'm troubleshooting the lamp exciter in my 5065A right now, and the circuit is the same basic series-tuned Colpitts design as the one on page 174 of the maser's service manual. The 5065A is showing occasional phase jumps on the order of 10-100 ps that coincide with small spikes in the current drawn by the lamp exciter, and I'm leaning towards blaming the silver-mica B-E feedback capacitor. (It even has the same designation in both instruments' service manuals, C2.) Tom: this is why your BVA was appearing to jump when I measured it. :-P -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: Corby Dawson Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:48 PM - snip -- I also had to replace the disassociator oscillator with an oscillator/amplifier of my own design. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Maser manual (2)
John, I'd put money on one of the feedthrough caps (easily damaged upon installation) in the Maser for such small jumps. From memory, the 5065A uses SM components, but these could be guilty. I've learned many abstract things I'd never otherwise come across in this thread on home-built masers. I for one would like to see more mileage on this topic although I'm not sure there's $25k in my Xmas box for the necessary parts to build one ! Kit VK2LL snip The 5065A is showing occasional phase jumps on the order of 10-100 ps that coincide with small spikes in the current drawn by the lamp exciter, and I'm leaning towards blaming the silver-mica B-E feedback capacitor. (It even has the same designation in both instruments' service manuals, C2.) Tom: this is why your BVA was appearing to jump when I measured it. :-P -- john, KE5FX snip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual (2)
Good point -- I should swap out the feedthrough as well. There is only one in this case, for the power lead-in, but if it is growing internal whiskers or otherwise failing I could see it causing this symptom... -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on Behalf Of Kit Scally Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:34 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Maser manual (2) John, I'd put money on one of the feedthrough caps (easily damaged upon installation) in the Maser for such small jumps. From memory, the 5065A uses SM components, but these could be guilty. I've learned many abstract things I'd never otherwise come across in this thread on home-built masers. I for one would like to see more mileage on this topic although I'm not sure there's $25k in my Xmas box for the necessary parts to build one ! Kit VK2LL snip The 5065A is showing occasional phase jumps on the order of 10-100 ps that coincide with small spikes in the current drawn by the lamp exciter, and I'm leaning towards blaming the silver-mica B-E feedback capacitor. (It even has the same designation in both instruments' service manuals, C2.) Tom: this is why your BVA was appearing to jump when I measured it. :-P -- john, KE5FX snip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
paul swed wrote: So by those pictures you actually have it working? Crazy question do you just drive down to your local air gas company and by some hydrogen. How do you fill the red bottle? Just down loaded the tech manual earlier printed out the ops manual. Thanks Basically, yes.. you can order up a tank of H2 pretty easily. However, I would think you need a fairly pure grade (e.g. oxyhydrogen welding grade aint gonna cut it).. For small amounts, a lecture bottle (2 cu ft at STP) would probably be the way to go. Or, generate it yourself (zinc and acid, for instance) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
If you decide to go the zinc/acid route (a very bad idea, IMO) you will need a compressor. I'd not want anything to do with that! I like living. A Lecture Bottle is the way to go. -John = paul swed wrote: So by those pictures you actually have it working? Crazy question do you just drive down to your local air gas company and by some hydrogen. How do you fill the red bottle? Just down loaded the tech manual earlier printed out the ops manual. Thanks Basically, yes.. you can order up a tank of H2 pretty easily. However, I would think you need a fairly pure grade (e.g. oxyhydrogen welding grade aint gonna cut it).. For small amounts, a lecture bottle (2 cu ft at STP) would probably be the way to go. Or, generate it yourself (zinc and acid, for instance) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
As that brings the mechanics inside the work envelope of main-stream CNC machines with the required tolerances. Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? Sapphire is pretty inexpensive (relatively speaking).. they grow it in big boules by the Czochralski process (like silicon). Machining might be tricky.. it's pretty hard, so diamond tooling would be needed. (I was thinking about making my wife a necklace of sapphire ball bearings.. they're chromium doped (i.e. rubies) to make them easier to find when you drop them. You can also get clear sapphire spheres, plates, and pretty much any lens shape you want. Edmund had the ball bearings for, as I recall, something like $8 each for 5mm diameter. They're used in ball point pens, too. http://www.industrialjewels.com/ http://www.birdprecision.com/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message 4c7eb129.2090...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes: On 09/01/2010 09:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Yes, but what is the issues relating to sapphire loading? What's the cost of the sapphire block and having it machined? It is a saphire tube, a readily available, if not exactly cheap, commodity. might not be all that expensive.. I just looked up optical quality balls from Edmund.. 5mm diameter is $20 (of coure, 9.525mm is $60) you might check http://www.melleroptics.com 0.250OD X.150ID X 0.875LONG SAPPHIRE TUBE PL/PL is $110 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
J. Forster wrote: If you decide to go the zinc/acid route (a very bad idea, IMO) you will need a compressor. I'd not want anything to do with that! I like living. A Lecture Bottle is the way to go. Why would you compress it.. I imagine that you need micrograms of H2.. (it *is* almost a vacuum, right?).. And yes, zinc/acid probably is a bad way... How about electrolysis of distilled water. (I know you're not going to think that sodium/H2O is a good approach, eh?) (on the other hand a lecture bottle is cheap and easy.. but this *is* time-nuts, where sometimes we like advocating the hard way... so what about some exotic nuclear reaction that throws off protons...I hesitate to suggest fissioning He, if it's even possible...) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Maser manual
The operation manual for the EFOS maser is on Tom Van Baaks website http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/efos-1.pdf Maintenance manual will follow later as I have to mail a CD to him with the 2nd manual. Corby Dawson 1 Tip for Losing Weight Cut down 2 lbs per week by using this 1 weird old tip http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c7d7478f168ad9e53m04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Thanks for putting the manual online. With humor you just have to love a rack tall standard with vac pumps and hydrogen bottles and that actually takes an arc welder to demagnetize it! Yikes now thats serious. Jimmy don't try this at home. On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Corby Dawson cdel...@juno.com wrote: The operation manual for the EFOS maser is on Tom Van Baaks website http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/efos-1.pdf Maintenance manual will follow later as I have to mail a CD to him with the 2nd manual. Corby Dawson 1 Tip for Losing Weight Cut down 2 lbs per week by using this 1 weird old tip http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c7d7478f168ad9e53m04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
I found the original copies of both EFOS manuals, along with a few photos. See: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/ /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maser manual
Hi Corby and fellow nuts - No need to mail CDs anymore - there is a free service called Dropbox.com that allows you to store up to 2 GB on their web site FOR FREE. It does much, much more - see the website, or just go to http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTU0NDg4NTY5 For a very quick and simple sign-up (and I get a referral credit of 250 MB) NB: Dropbox has been featured by CNET very recently. PS: It also works on iPhones. 73, John Allen - K1AE -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Corby Dawson Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 5:29 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Maser manual The operation manual for the EFOS maser is on Tom Van Baaks website http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/efos/efos-1.pdf Maintenance manual will follow later as I have to mail a CD to him with the 2nd manual. Corby Dawson 1 Tip for Losing Weight Cut down 2 lbs per week by using this 1 weird old tip http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c7d7478f168ad9e53m04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
