Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
Nigel, Your computer may be sensing the serial data stream and declaring it to be a mouse. This is a generic problem having nothing to do with Tac32 but it and the solution are in the CNS Clock II and Tac32 manual available where you got the software. P.S., I am in the UK at the AMSAT-UK conference. Rick W2GPS AMSAT LM2232 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 6:13 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 19/07/2007 02:44:42 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My suggestion is that you pick up a free evaluation copy of Rick Hambly's TAC32 software at http://cnssys.com/cnsclock/Tac32Software.html . TAC32 knows all the quirks options that ever existed in a Motorola receiver, going all the way back to the Rev.3 PVT6. Then if you find it useful, a legal copy can be purchased from Rick, or at members discount from TAPR (http://www.tapr.org/gps_tac32.html). --- Hi Tom Many thanks for the suggestion. You may have seen my subsequent post in which I commented that I had tried TAC32 without solving my problem, only to find the kit was working ok but with an incorrectly labelled connector. TAC32 does look useful though so I'll check it over more thoroughly later. One interesting side effect.. Some time after shutting down TAC32 last night, but with the Oncore still connected to the serial port and outputting data, my PS2 connected mouse started misbehaving, with the pointer jumping all over the place then settling down for a while before repeating the performance. It didn't occur to me at first that the incoming serial data might have anything to do with it until it started again this morning and I eventually stopped it by disconnecting the serial lead from the receiver. Whilst I can't say for sure that running TAC32 was what caused it, it's not something I've ever seen in the past nor previously this past few days after running WinOncore. I'll check later to see if the port shut down properly and also take a look at the Oncore message stream, perhaps TAC32 may have changed something there as part of its auto setup routine? regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 19/07/2007 14:58:59 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is a well known quirk/feature of Windows itself. There is a way of curing it (other than using a better OS) but I cant recall the details at the moment. Bruce Thanks Bruce I've got it sorted now, for the time being at least:-) I'd love to use a better OS, have tried a few flavours of Linux for example after spending a long time working with Unix servers, but there are still applications where Windows is the only viable OS. In my case, the biggest single factor is the Winradio software for the G313. There isn't a viable alternative, not that I've seen so far anyway, and it took long enough to get all the quirks ironed out under Windows, so certainly not an area where I'd want to try an emulator. If I've got to keep Windoze for that then I'm less tempted to run another OS for anything else. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
In a message dated 21/07/2007 18:45:43 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your computer may be sensing the serial data stream and declaring it to be a mouse. This is a generic problem having nothing to do with Tac32 but it and the solution are in the CNS Clock II and Tac32 manual available where you got the software. P.S., I am in the UK at the AMSAT-UK conference. --- Hi Rick Many thanks for your comments. You're quite right and all is under control again:-) I've obviously been lucky in the past, in that I've not come across this before and it seems to be only certain strings that trigger it. Running WinOncore had enabled the Ea and Ek commands but it was the Bb string enabled by TAC32 that triggered the problem, in this instance anyway. Now I'm aware of the potential it'll be easier to deal with in the future. I haven't had a chance to explore TAC32, or the manual, any further yet but it looks good and I'll be coming back to it soon. Welcome to sunny Guilford, you're about 75 miles from where I lived for many years. and nearly 475 from where I am now:-) The west coast of Scotland is supposed to be the wettest part of the UK, and normally lives up to that reputation, but it's been quite sunny here of late, certainly no wetter than normal, and could almost be considered drought conditions compared to what some other parts of the country have suffered rece ntly. Enjoy your stayand stay dry:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Bruce I've got it sorted now, for the time being at least:-) I'd love to use a better OS, have tried a few flavours of Linux for example after spending a long time working with Unix servers, but there are still applications where Windows is the only viable OS. In my case, the biggest single factor is the Winradio software for the G313. There isn't a viable alternative, not that I've seen so far anyway, and it took long enough to get all the quirks ironed out under Windows, so certainly not an area where I'd want to try an emulator. If I've got to keep Windoze for that then I'm less tempted to run another OS for anything else. regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel Problems that occur when an active serial data source is connected to a PC serial port are not restricted to Windows. If one booted a FreeBSD machine with an active GPS timing receiver connected to a serial port, the serial buffers would overflow. This problem/feature appears to have since been fixed, at least for FreeBSD6.1. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : If one booted a FreeBSD machine with an active GPS timing receiver : connected to a serial port, the serial buffers would overflow. : This problem/feature appears to have since been fixed, at least for : FreeBSD6.1. Well, the warnings that told you that data was being thrown away were removed. They never were a problem other than to be noisy on the console for no good reason... Warner ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] M. Warner Losh wrote: In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : If one booted a FreeBSD machine with an active GPS timing receiver : connected to a serial port, the serial buffers would overflow. : This problem/feature appears to have since been fixed, at least for : FreeBSD6.1. Well, the warnings that told you that data was being thrown away were removed. They never were a problem other than to be noisy on the console for no good reason... Warner Warner If it had only been that innocuous, I wouldn't have mentioned it. The machine locked up every time, even disconnecting the GPS receiver serial cable didn't help. It was necessary to reboot the machine with the GPS receiver unplugged and then reconnect it after starting ntpd. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
In a message dated 19/07/2007 02:44:42 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My suggestion is that you pick up a free evaluation copy of Rick Hambly's TAC32 software at http://cnssys.com/cnsclock/Tac32Software.html . TAC32 knows all the quirks options that ever existed in a Motorola receiver, going all the way back to the Rev.3 PVT6. Then if you find it useful, a legal copy can be purchased from Rick, or at members discount from TAPR (http://www.tapr.org/gps_tac32.html). --- Hi Tom Many thanks for the suggestion. You may have seen my subsequent post in which I commented that I had tried TAC32 without solving my problem, only to find the kit was working ok but with an incorrectly labelled connector. TAC32 does look useful though so I'll check it over more thoroughly later. One interesting side effect.. Some time after shutting down TAC32 last night, but with the Oncore still connected to the serial port and outputting data, my PS2 connected mouse started misbehaving, with the pointer jumping all over the place then settling down for a while before repeating the performance. It didn't occur to me at first that the incoming serial data might have anything to do with it until it started again this morning and I eventually stopped it by disconnecting the serial lead from the receiver. Whilst I can't say for sure that running TAC32 was what caused it, it's not something I've ever seen in the past nor previously this past few days after running WinOncore. I'll check later to see if the port shut down properly and also take a look at the Oncore message stream, perhaps TAC32 may have changed something there as part of its auto setup routine? regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the TAC32 documentation, you will read about Mouse data and GPS data ! Theres a command line switch to run that should resolve it. Brian N4FMN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Spam: [F=0.0149253731; S=0.010(2007071801); MH=0.500(2007071904); R=0.600(s0/n0)] X-MAIL-FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-SOURCE-IP: [(unknown)] X-MxL-Spam-Verdict: No In a message dated 19/07/2007 02:44:42 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My suggestion is that you pick up a free evaluation copy of Rick Hambly's TAC32 software at http://cnssys.com/cnsclock/Tac32Software.html . TAC32 knows all the quirks options that ever existed in a Motorola receiver, going all the way back to the Rev.3 PVT6. Then if you find it useful, a legal copy can be purchased from Rick, or at members discount from TAPR (http://www.tapr.org/gps_tac32.html). --- Hi Tom Many thanks for the suggestion. You may have seen my subsequent post in which I commented that I had tried TAC32 without solving my problem, only to find the kit was working ok but with an incorrectly labelled connector. TAC32 does look useful though so I'll check it over more thoroughly later. One interesting side effect.. Some time after shutting down TAC32 last night, but with the Oncore still connected to the serial port and outputting data, my PS2 connected mouse started misbehaving, with the pointer jumping all over the place then settling down for a while before repeating the performance. It didn't occur to me at first that the incoming serial data might have anything to do with it until it started again this morning and I eventually stopped it by disconnecting the serial lead from the receiver. Whilst I can't say for sure that running TAC32 was what caused it, it's not something I've ever seen in the past nor previously this past few days after running WinOncore. I'll check later to see if the port shut down properly and also take a look at the Oncore message stream, perhaps TAC32 may have changed something there as part of its auto setup routine? regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
In the TAC32 documentation, you will read about Mouse data and GPS data ! Theres a command line switch to run that should resolve it (NoSerialMice or something to that efect) Brian N4FMN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Spam: [F=0.0149253731; S=0.010(2007071801); MH=0.500(2007071904); R=0.600(s0/n0)] X-MAIL-FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-SOURCE-IP: [(unknown)] X-MxL-Spam-Verdict: No In a message dated 19/07/2007 02:44:42 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My suggestion is that you pick up a free evaluation copy of Rick Hambly's TAC32 software at http://cnssys.com/cnsclock/Tac32Software.html . TAC32 knows all the quirks options that ever existed in a Motorola receiver, going all the way back to the Rev.3 PVT6. Then if you find it useful, a legal copy can be purchased from Rick, or at members discount from TAPR (http://www.tapr.org/gps_tac32.html). --- Hi Tom Many thanks for the suggestion. You may have seen my subsequent post in which I commented that I had tried TAC32 without solving my problem, only to find the kit was working ok but with an incorrectly labelled connector. TAC32 does look useful though so I'll check it over more thoroughly later. One interesting side effect.. Some time after shutting down TAC32 last night, but with the Oncore still connected to the serial port and outputting data, my PS2 connected mouse started misbehaving, with the pointer jumping all over the place then settling down for a while before repeating the performance. It didn't occur to me at first that the incoming serial data might have anything to do with it until it started again this morning and I eventually stopped it by disconnecting the serial lead from the receiver. Whilst I can't say for sure that running TAC32 was what caused it, it's not something I've ever seen in the past nor previously this past few days after running WinOncore. I'll check later to see if the port shut down properly and also take a look at the Oncore message stream, perhaps TAC32 may have changed something there as part of its auto setup routine? regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 19/07/2007 12:33:07 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the TAC32 documentation, you will read about Mouse data and GPS data ! Theres a command line switch to run that should resolve it. Brian N4FMN -- Thanks Brian XP was bring up a false pointing device at startup, just as described, and disabling that has fixed it. I like to think I would have got there eventually but, as you realised:-), hadn't got round to reading the manual yet as I was just pleased to have the Oncore working. Looking at the current incoming traffic from the Oncore shows that the Bb, Ea, and Ek, strings are all coming in on a once per second basis. Prior to running TAC32 I had only been seeing the Bb and Ea strings so I presume TAC32 automatically enables the Ek command. As I hadn't seen the problem before I'm guessing it's something in the Ek string that caused it, in my case anyway. Perhaps it's time to read the rest of the manual :-) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 19/07/2007 02:44:42 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My suggestion is that you pick up a free evaluation copy of Rick Hambly's TAC32 software at http://cnssys.com/cnsclock/Tac32Software.html . TAC32 knows all the quirks options that ever existed in a Motorola receiver, going all the way back to the Rev.3 PVT6. Then if you find it useful, a legal copy can be purchased from Rick, or at members discount from TAPR (http://www.tapr.org/gps_tac32.html). --- Hi Tom Many thanks for the suggestion. You may have seen my subsequent post in which I commented that I had tried TAC32 without solving my problem, only to find the kit was working ok but with an incorrectly labelled connector. TAC32 does look useful though so I'll check it over more thoroughly later. One interesting side effect.. Some time after shutting down TAC32 last night, but with the Oncore still connected to the serial port and outputting data, my PS2 connected mouse started misbehaving, with the pointer jumping all over the place then settling down for a while before repeating the performance. It didn't occur to me at first that the incoming serial data might have anything to do with it until it started again this morning and I eventually stopped it by disconnecting the serial lead from the receiver. Whilst I can't say for sure that running TAC32 was what caused it, it's not something I've ever seen in the past nor previously this past few days after running WinOncore. I'll check later to see if the port shut down properly and also take a look at the Oncore message stream, perhaps TAC32 may have changed something there as part of its auto setup routine? regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel This is a well known quirk/feature of Windows itself. There is a way of curing it (other than using a better OS) but I cant recall the details at the moment. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
How big would the sawtooth be for an m12+? Warner The M12+ has a 3x smaller sawtooth; about ±16 ns (9 ns rms) vs. the VP sawtooth which is about ± 52 ns (31 ns rms). See: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/m12/sawtooth.htm http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/vp/sawtooth.htm /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
Nigel, The bouncing mouse is always a fun problem. If you go up to the Synergy at: http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/ShopTalk/disabling detection of microsoft ballpoint mouse.pdf there is an old paper I wrote about this problem. Disabling the mouse in the Windows system folder works pretty well, but on more than one occasion I have seen it mysteriously reappear. As you noted, this only happens when the receiver is plugged in during a boot. If the receiver is plugged in during a boot, unplugging it and plugging it back in will not help. Apparently this is a system variable that is set during boot. The second half of the paper is the registry fix that Rick Hambly showed me several years ago. I think this method is included in his TAC32 user manuals. This is the way to REALLY shut the serial mouse down for good. Note that this problem is not limited to VP receivers. If you have anything plugged into a serial port outputting data during boot that your computer thinks is valid mouse data the same thing will happen. Best regards, Randy Warner Senior Applications Engineer Geodetics, Inc. 858.729.0872 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:13 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 19/07/2007 02:44:42 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My suggestion is that you pick up a free evaluation copy of Rick Hambly's TAC32 software at http://cnssys.com/cnsclock/Tac32Software.html . TAC32 knows all the quirks options that ever existed in a Motorola receiver, going all the way back to the Rev.3 PVT6. Then if you find it useful, a legal copy can be purchased from Rick, or at members discount from TAPR (http://www.tapr.org/gps_tac32.html). --- Hi Tom Many thanks for the suggestion. You may have seen my subsequent post in which I commented that I had tried TAC32 without solving my problem, only to find the kit was working ok but with an incorrectly labelled connector. TAC32 does look useful though so I'll check it over more thoroughly later. One interesting side effect.. Some time after shutting down TAC32 last night, but with the Oncore still connected to the serial port and outputting data, my PS2 connected mouse started misbehaving, with the pointer jumping all over the place then settling down for a while before repeating the performance. It didn't occur to me at first that the incoming serial data might have anything to do with it until it started again this morning and I eventually stopped it by disconnecting the serial lead from the receiver. Whilst I can't say for sure that running TAC32 was what caused it, it's not something I've ever seen in the past nor previously this past few days after running WinOncore. I'll check later to see if the port shut down properly and also take a look at the Oncore message stream, perhaps TAC32 may have changed something there as part of its auto setup routine? regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nigel, Here is a link to a Motorola communications primer I wrote several years ago when I worked at Synergy Systems: http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/ShopTalk/1oncore_serial_communicat ions.pdf I think a couple of the denizens of this list also have copies of most of my old docs on their websites. Anybody out there? I don't remember where they are. Randy Warner Senior Applications Engineer Geodetics, Inc. 858.729.0872 __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 5:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 17/07/2007 23:09:36 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You should be able to restart the VP with the @@Cg command in the Additional Message Window in WinOncore12. The total command string is: @@Cg01enter. Note that with the VP this must be done after every receiver default or SelfTest. -- You will also encounter trouble trying to run a lot of the more esoteric 8 channel messages that the VP supported. WinOncore12 has no idea about what to do with these. Once again, Rick's software will come to the rescue. _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I put all the Oncore related files I have gathered up online a while back, they can be found at: http://www.rabel.org/archives/Motorola_Oncore/ Jason I think a couple of the denizens of this list also have copies of most of my old docs on their websites. Anybody out there? I don't remember where they are. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
In a message dated 18/07/2007 19:13:28 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the B means PPS? One of those PDF files shows all the feaures of the models, and there are a couple VP models where there isn't any specification for PPS so I would guess that means it doesn't have that feature. Hi Jason This is the info for my module. COPYRIGHT 1991-1995 MOTOROLA INC. SFTW P/N # 98-P36830P SOFTWARE VER # 8 SOFTWARE REV # 4 SOFTWARE DATE 13 JUL 1995 MODEL #B3221B1114 HDWR P/N # _ SERIAL # SSG0115514 MANUFACTUR DATE 5L29 OPTIONS LIST B As I commented in an earlier post, this has just the B option and is one of those listed with no specification in the 1PPS column, which is what led me to assume it hasn't got the 1PPS output. That ties in with what I'd found but the comments in the firmware list had me wondering again, especially as the Oncore is fitted to a development kit with a 1PPS output socket. Although supposedly unused, it is an old kit so perhaps the module got swapped at some time, or it was an optional extra when new. Oh well, the case is quite nice:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 18/07/2007 19:25:04 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sigh. Nigel - the best thing for you to do at this point is to download an eval copy of TAC32 from Rick's website and let his software set up your receiver. It will set it up automatically to get the 1PPS running. Once you have convinced yourself that your receiver is working you can go back to WinOncore12. I think the problem with your 1PPS is that WinOncore12 does not recognize the old VP 1PPS commands. Randy --- Sigh indeed..but you got me smiling too:-) That's better news than I was expecting so maybe there's still light at the end of my tunnel after all. I'll keep my fingers crossed and try what you suggest... back later:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 18/07/2007 19:25:04 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is largely unknown that basically any VP receiver is capable of operating as a standard positioning receiver, precise timer with TRAIM, or with ALL the bells and whistles including carrier phase. The code inside all receivers with the same version firmware (8.4, 10.0, etc.) is capable of operating in any mode. When the receiver boots it looks at the Option List in the receiver ID to see which options are active. Motorola liked to pretend that the timing and carrier phase receivers were more expensive because of specialized code, but in fact this was not the case. The code was always there, but the receiver would not use it if the option was not present in the receiver ID. --- I take it that means a flash upgrade would just have to modify the receiver ID, or even just the option list? :-) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Actually, no. The receiver has to be reflashed in order to update firmware, but the receiver ID info is actually in EEPROM. There was an old DOS program from Moto that would allow you to edit the receiver ID information in order to change options. Best regards, Randy Warner Senior Applications Engineer Geodetics, Inc. 858.729.0872 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:39 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 18/07/2007 19:25:04 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is largely unknown that basically any VP receiver is capable of operating as a standard positioning receiver, precise timer with TRAIM, or with ALL the bells and whistles including carrier phase. The code inside all receivers with the same version firmware (8.4, 10.0, etc.) is capable of operating in any mode. When the receiver boots it looks at the Option List in the receiver ID to see which options are active. Motorola liked to pretend that the timing and carrier phase receivers were more expensive because of specialized code, but in fact this was not the case. The code was always there, but the receiver would not use it if the option was not present in the receiver ID. --- I take it that means a flash upgrade would just have to modify the receiver ID, or even just the option list? :-) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 18/07/2007 19:53:08 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, no. The receiver has to be reflashed in order to update firmware, but the receiver ID info is actually in EEPROM. There was an old DOS program from Moto that would allow you to edit the receiver ID information in order to change options. - Good point, I was only thinking of upgrades in the sense of enabling options, hadn't got any further than that:-) Any idea if copies of that old DOS program are still available? It turns out to have been another one of those days I installed TAC32 as you suggested, all up and running ok, but still no 1PPS. I then did what I should have done earlier, and took the module and it's motherboard out of the case to check it wasn't a physical problem. So now it turns out that it is working, and may well have been working all alongonly somebody screwed up the silk screen for the front panel and labelled the output socket incorrectly. It's a multipin connector and my 1PPS doesn't come out on the supposed 1PPS connection, it comes out on a pin indicated as Ov !!! Whoops:-) I might have expected that from a homebrew project but this was marketed as a commercial product, and by a fairly large company. It looks like I'm back on track, with a few things learned along the way, so many thanks for your assistance, which has been much appreciated. Thanks again also to Jason for the extra documentation. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, July 18, 2007 22:24, Jason Rabel said: update required some key. But I don't know if they would / could alter any of the optional settings. I paid Synergy $15 extra for enabling phase output for a few surplus VPs I bought a few years ago. good view of the sky you should be alright. If you really need a higher-end receiver then there's the newer M12M-T. In some ways the VP which has optional phase outputs IS a higher-end receiver than the newer oncore receivers lacking that option. ;-) -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
Bjorn, Is there any software available (free / trial / pay) that makes use of the carrier phase data from the VP? If so, could you shoot me some URLs! Jason In some ways the VP which has optional phase outputs IS a higher-end receiver than the newer oncore receivers lacking that option. ;-) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Björn_Gabrielsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:55:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, July 18, 2007 22:24, Jason Rabel said: update required some key. But I don't know if they would / could alter any of the optional settings. I paid Synergy $15 extra for enabling phase output for a few surplus VPs I bought a few years ago. That is reasnoble. good view of the sky you should be alright. If you really need a higher-end receiver then there's the newer M12M-T. In some ways the VP which has optional phase outputs IS a higher-end receiver than the newer oncore receivers lacking that option. ;-) Certainly. The additional channels is nice etc. but you can still do very good things with 6 channels of carrier-phase measurements. While I can see 8-9 sats being tracked, some keeps jumping in and out and comparing 9 C/A code tracking against 6 carrier phase tracking the later wins out even if the former have a slight better means to deal with geometry. Naturally we like to have all sats with carrier phase. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
Jason, This translator should get you into rinex. http://www.helenav.nl/rinex.htm When there you have all post processing packages out there to work between base VP and rover VP, VP vs your local CORS, VP vs your other GPS, etc. If you find something more generic than DOS excecutable - let me know! -- Björn On Wed, July 18, 2007 23:01, Jason Rabel said: Bjorn, Is there any software available (free / trial / pay) that makes use of the carrier phase data from the VP? If so, could you shoot me some URLs! Jason In some ways the VP which has optional phase outputs IS a higher-end receiver than the newer oncore receivers lacking that option. ;-) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 18/07/2007 21:25:35 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wouldn't worry too much about not having TRAIM. As long as your GPS has a good view of the sky you should be alright. If you really need a higher-end receiver then there's the newer M12M-T. Do you have any pictures of the adapter board / product? I'm curious to see what it looks like. Hi Jason I don't really need anything any better right now, just being greedy:-) Although it would have been nice to have the extra timing options I'm just pleased to find I have the PPS output after all. With most of my test gear in storage right now, including Z3801A and other references, I was looking for a quick way to check out a Parthus GPS standard that hasn't been behaving quite as I expected. The QEX project from last year seemed to offer an ideal solution, without the output dividers/drivers it's just one PIC, one op amp, and a level shifter. if you don't count the GPS receiver and an HP 10811 that is:-) The unit I'm using was marketed around 1996 by Maplin Electronics in the UK as their GPS Development System. I bought this one recently from a company who had it as left over NOS, they used them in 1997 as accurate timing sources for lighting/effects in a theme park. Maplin are quite a large retail chain in the UK, similar to RadioShack but without the radios:-), and they also published a magazine at the time. I think this may have started as a magazine project that they decided to market as a finished product. Basically, it's just an Oncore on an interface board that contains a MAX232 IC and a 5 volt regulator. I suspect it's very similar to the Motorola evaluation kit. It's put together quite nicely in a small extruded case but doesn't seem to be very well designed. To start with, they rate the supply from 8 to 16 volts with a 16 volt electrolytic across it. Probably ok, but I prefer a margin so changed it. The electrolytic across the negative 8.5 volt output from the MAX232 was the wrong way round, I thought it was a one off until I found the PCB marked up that way. And finally, as I mentioned earlier, the front panel screening is wrong. Other than that, it seems ok:-) I've got a photo of the outside but that doesn't tell you much so I'll take some pictures of the PCB etc and let you have those later. I'll also try to provide a copy of the interface schematic. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bjorn, You are absolutely right. Everyone in the user industry screamed bloody murder when Moto decided to not support carrier phase in later receivers. The old VP B8121Z1116 receivers are still one of the best carrier phase receivers out there, and it is almost 10 years old. Randy In some ways the VP which has optional phase outputs IS a higher-end receiver than the newer oncore receivers lacking that option. ;-) -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There were some useful items there that I hadn't seen before, in particular the VP firmware history. but now I'm totally confused:-) That firmware history refers to firmware version 8v4 being fitted to models Bx4 and, sure enough, my firmware is 8v4. 8v4 is supposed to have updates for the Time RAIM option so I would have expected that to imply my unit did have the 1PPS option after all, but it resolutely ignores any of the relevant commands either via the WinOncore command window or the menu options for time setting. It will alow me to sellect the option that turns on 1PPS but the module ignores the command and doesn't seem to reply. My suggestion is that you pick up a free evaluation copy of Rick Hambly's TAC32 software at http://cnssys.com/cnsclock/Tac32Software.html . TAC32 knows all the quirks options that ever existed in a Motorola receiver, going all the way back to the Rev.3 PVT6. Then if you find it useful, a legal copy can be purchased from Rick, or at members discount from TAPR (http://www.tapr.org/gps_tac32.html). Tom Clark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
The other thing I've wondered about is how did HP correct the but in the early sawtooth error back when SA was on? Brooke, Someone with a 'scope probe could tell for sure but my understanding is that they didn't correct for sawtooth in hardware or in software. One reason may be that early PVT6 or VP's didn't have a reliable sawtooth correction message. Dr TAC could comment on this. The other reason is that, as many of us have pointed out, sawtooth correction is nice but not necessary for a GPSDO. The longer the time constant the more true this is. So the HP SmartClocks had two things in their favor in this respect. One is a very high-performance OCXO allowing a longer time constant than other GPSDO. The other is that they were designed when S/A was in effect. Everyone designing GPSDO's in the 1990's needed to have longer time constants -- to reduce the effects of S/A. Consequently, sawtooth was less of an issue than it is now. So those are my three hunches. Anyone know for sure? /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi All I'm trying to set up a supposedly NOS GPS development kit, similar to the old Motorola evalution kit, with an Oncore VP mounted on an interface board fitted with a 5 volt regulator and MAX232 interface chip. Running WinOncore12 under WinXP I can talk to the module ok, enter location info and get it to return it's ID etc, but other than that I can't get it to do anything. I've discovered from the VP command set that it goes into idle mode after a self test and needs a position fix mode command to put it back into fix mode. Unfortunately, although the module acknowledges the command it reports that it's still in idle mode. I'll dig out a DOS PC later, and try an earlier version of the software, but if anyone's come across this before I'd be grateful for any tips as to how I can kick it back into life again. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oncore VP problem
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 17/07/2007 23:09:36 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You should be able to restart the VP with the @@Cg command in the Additional Message Window in WinOncore12. The total command string is: @@Cg01enter. Note that with the VP this must be done after every receiver default or SelfTest. -- You will also encounter trouble trying to run a lot of the more esoteric 8 channel messages that the VP supported. WinOncore12 has no idea about what to do with these. Once again, Rick's software will come to the rescue. Best regards, Randy Warner Senior Applications Engineer Geodetics, Inc. --- Thanks Randy That saved the day. It was one of those things that seem silly when you know but a real pain when nothing wants to work. The unit did come with some earlier DOS software and a while ago I booted up the Dolch luggable, that I keep for the Z3801A and SatStat, and ran the DOS GPS90 software but that was doing the same thing. My problem??? The VP comand set document doesn't mention, or not that I can see anyway, the need for that leading zero, so I was using @@Cg1.and it don't like that:-) Considering the antenna is only propped up on a ground floor window sill for now, and signal levels are on the low side, all is looking good, with a 10 degree mask angle it's seeing 10 or 11 satellites and so far tracking 3. It turns out to be an early 8 channel, a B3 model, but as long as it has the 1PPS output, that should be ok for what I need. Thanks too for the other information, I'll look out for a copy of TAC32 and try that later. regards and thanks again Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
