Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
On 3/30/13 2:58 PM, Lizeth Norman wrote: What a bunch of hooey. Another so called expert wasted hours of my time because he can't be bothered to either note that code is buggy or just can't be bothered.. If you don't want to release it, then don't. If you do and it's a POS, Expect emails. Let's talk about that wasted hours.. You had a need. You had two alternatives: 1) write the needed code yourself 2) use something someone else has written. Presumably, you figured that #1 has large cost (if it were trivial, you wouldn't even start considering #2).. The value of satisfying the need is Value(#1) So you make a *speculative investment* in trying #2. It pays off and you are ahead of the overall game by Cost(#1)-Cost(#2). You've just got a substantial return on your small investment (you spent Cost(#2) and you got Value(#1) in return) If it doesn't pay off and you've invested Cost(#2) without any return. This is not wasted.. this is a speculative investment that didn't pay off. A smart investor might look at the quality of documentation, or at the source code, or look for support groups. Such things sometimes exist and make the probability of usefulness go up (In modern terms,the Software Reuse Readiness Level is higher). Sure, sometimes you invest blind, and find that the program doesn't work well, etc., but that's not wasted. You've basically paid for information. Finally, what is a POS for you may not be a POS for other people. A lot of freely released software was written to satisfy a tiny niche need, with NO intention that it be used for anything else. If you want to use it as a starting point, fine, but don't come whining when it doesn't happen to do what YOU need. This is especially true of software written to provide an interface to a piece of test gear or equipment, for which the writer has exactly one instance. All they care about is that they can get their counter, timer, antenna tuner, or whatever to work. They have neither the time, money, nor inclination, to make the software work for ANY model of that piece of test equipment, nor to accommodate all the manufacturing variations. Or maybe someone wrote software to extract data from a published source for some need, and then the published source changes its format. The extraction software is now broken, but it met the original need, it might provide a framework for a future user to modify. I don't have a problem with this. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
All u guys that post code to push up your little ego and then don't help when it sucks need to see a shrink. Don't want emails, don't post. Keep your bad code in the folder were it belongs. There are enough who think they know. And finally: The code in question is without question buggy. BTW: I did build Brooks' project and had to send him two emails. One with a question and the other a thank you. Have a nice day Norm n3ykf On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 3/30/13 2:58 PM, Lizeth Norman wrote: What a bunch of hooey. Another so called expert wasted hours of my time because he can't be bothered to either note that code is buggy or just can't be bothered.. If you don't want to release it, then don't. If you do and it's a POS, Expect emails. Let's talk about that wasted hours.. You had a need. You had two alternatives: 1) write the needed code yourself 2) use something someone else has written. Presumably, you figured that #1 has large cost (if it were trivial, you wouldn't even start considering #2).. The value of satisfying the need is Value(#1) So you make a *speculative investment* in trying #2. It pays off and you are ahead of the overall game by Cost(#1)-Cost(#2). You've just got a substantial return on your small investment (you spent Cost(#2) and you got Value(#1) in return) If it doesn't pay off and you've invested Cost(#2) without any return. This is not wasted.. this is a speculative investment that didn't pay off. A smart investor might look at the quality of documentation, or at the source code, or look for support groups. Such things sometimes exist and make the probability of usefulness go up (In modern terms,the Software Reuse Readiness Level is higher). Sure, sometimes you invest blind, and find that the program doesn't work well, etc., but that's not wasted. You've basically paid for information. Finally, what is a POS for you may not be a POS for other people. A lot of freely released software was written to satisfy a tiny niche need, with NO intention that it be used for anything else. If you want to use it as a starting point, fine, but don't come whining when it doesn't happen to do what YOU need. This is especially true of software written to provide an interface to a piece of test gear or equipment, for which the writer has exactly one instance. All they care about is that they can get their counter, timer, antenna tuner, or whatever to work. They have neither the time, money, nor inclination, to make the software work for ANY model of that piece of test equipment, nor to accommodate all the manufacturing variations. Or maybe someone wrote software to extract data from a published source for some need, and then the published source changes its format. The extraction software is now broken, but it met the original need, it might provide a framework for a future user to modify. I don't have a problem with this. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
On 31.03.2013 17:32, Lizeth Norman wrote: All u guys that post code to push up your little ego and then don't help when it sucks need to see a shrink. Don't want emails, don't post. Keep your bad code in the folder were it belongs. Are you suppossing that anybody that releases any code must provide support to you for free and for life? Don't you think that is enough that they have released the code for free? If you think it sucks for you, you are free not to use it. Probably other people finds it interesting and useful, and if they have any problem, they try to solve it by themselves before trying the author to get their problems solved for free. Rgds, Javier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
There are those of us who write code to solve a problem and post it so others can use it as is or as a starting point for their own code. Has nothing to do with ego boosting has more to do with paying it forward for all the snippets of code and diagrams we used in the past to jump start our own efforts At least in my case I don't have the time to support it other than for my own use if others find it useful that's a bonus. But it's free and it's value is determined by the user. My time has a value and I'm happy to support things when paid either in cash or in kind. But I don't work for free. If you want support buy commercial packages which include support or offer to pay for the things you need. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Lizeth Norman normanliz...@gmail.com wrote: All u guys that post code to push up your little ego and then don't help when it sucks need to see a shrink. Don't want emails, don't post. Keep your bad code in the folder were it belongs. There are enough who think they know. And finally: The code in question is without question buggy. BTW: I did build Brooks' project and had to send him two emails. One with a question and the other a thank you. Have a nice day Norm n3ykf On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 3/30/13 2:58 PM, Lizeth Norman wrote: What a bunch of hooey. Another so called expert wasted hours of my time because he can't be bothered to either note that code is buggy or just can't be bothered.. If you don't want to release it, then don't. If you do and it's a POS, Expect emails. Let's talk about that wasted hours.. You had a need. You had two alternatives: 1) write the needed code yourself 2) use something someone else has written. Presumably, you figured that #1 has large cost (if it were trivial, you wouldn't even start considering #2).. The value of satisfying the need is Value(#1) So you make a *speculative investment* in trying #2. It pays off and you are ahead of the overall game by Cost(#1)-Cost(#2). You've just got a substantial return on your small investment (you spent Cost(#2) and you got Value(#1) in return) If it doesn't pay off and you've invested Cost(#2) without any return. This is not wasted.. this is a speculative investment that didn't pay off. A smart investor might look at the quality of documentation, or at the source code, or look for support groups. Such things sometimes exist and make the probability of usefulness go up (In modern terms,the Software Reuse Readiness Level is higher). Sure, sometimes you invest blind, and find that the program doesn't work well, etc., but that's not wasted. You've basically paid for information. Finally, what is a POS for you may not be a POS for other people. A lot of freely released software was written to satisfy a tiny niche need, with NO intention that it be used for anything else. If you want to use it as a starting point, fine, but don't come whining when it doesn't happen to do what YOU need. This is especially true of software written to provide an interface to a piece of test gear or equipment, for which the writer has exactly one instance. All they care about is that they can get their counter, timer, antenna tuner, or whatever to work. They have neither the time, money, nor inclination, to make the software work for ANY model of that piece of test equipment, nor to accommodate all the manufacturing variations. Or maybe someone wrote software to extract data from a published source for some need, and then the published source changes its format. The extraction software is now broken, but it met the original need, it might provide a framework for a future user to modify. I don't have a problem with this. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
On a positive note, the number of people that have demonstrated the downright humility to help me has been staggering. Not only with the basics, but the details as well. All it takes has been a cogent email. No begging or offer of other. Said taught me much about smt prototyping. All in one email. I could go on. On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Scott McGrath scmcgr...@gmail.com wrote: There are those of us who write code to solve a problem and post it so others can use it as is or as a starting point for their own code. Has nothing to do with ego boosting has more to do with paying it forward for all the snippets of code and diagrams we used in the past to jump start our own efforts At least in my case I don't have the time to support it other than for my own use if others find it useful that's a bonus. But it's free and it's value is determined by the user. My time has a value and I'm happy to support things when paid either in cash or in kind. But I don't work for free. If you want support buy commercial packages which include support or offer to pay for the things you need. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Lizeth Norman normanliz...@gmail.com wrote: All u guys that post code to push up your little ego and then don't help when it sucks need to see a shrink. Don't want emails, don't post. Keep your bad code in the folder were it belongs. There are enough who think they know. And finally: The code in question is without question buggy. BTW: I did build Brooks' project and had to send him two emails. One with a question and the other a thank you. Have a nice day Norm n3ykf On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 3/30/13 2:58 PM, Lizeth Norman wrote: What a bunch of hooey. Another so called expert wasted hours of my time because he can't be bothered to either note that code is buggy or just can't be bothered.. If you don't want to release it, then don't. If you do and it's a POS, Expect emails. Let's talk about that wasted hours.. You had a need. You had two alternatives: 1) write the needed code yourself 2) use something someone else has written. Presumably, you figured that #1 has large cost (if it were trivial, you wouldn't even start considering #2).. The value of satisfying the need is Value(#1) So you make a *speculative investment* in trying #2. It pays off and you are ahead of the overall game by Cost(#1)-Cost(#2). You've just got a substantial return on your small investment (you spent Cost(#2) and you got Value(#1) in return) If it doesn't pay off and you've invested Cost(#2) without any return. This is not wasted.. this is a speculative investment that didn't pay off. A smart investor might look at the quality of documentation, or at the source code, or look for support groups. Such things sometimes exist and make the probability of usefulness go up (In modern terms,the Software Reuse Readiness Level is higher). Sure, sometimes you invest blind, and find that the program doesn't work well, etc., but that's not wasted. You've basically paid for information. Finally, what is a POS for you may not be a POS for other people. A lot of freely released software was written to satisfy a tiny niche need, with NO intention that it be used for anything else. If you want to use it as a starting point, fine, but don't come whining when it doesn't happen to do what YOU need. This is especially true of software written to provide an interface to a piece of test gear or equipment, for which the writer has exactly one instance. All they care about is that they can get their counter, timer, antenna tuner, or whatever to work. They have neither the time, money, nor inclination, to make the software work for ANY model of that piece of test equipment, nor to accommodate all the manufacturing variations. Or maybe someone wrote software to extract data from a published source for some need, and then the published source changes its format. The extraction software is now broken, but it met the original need, it might provide a framework for a future user to modify. I don't have a problem with this. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
On Mar 31, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Lizeth Norman normanliz...@gmail.com wrote: All u guys that post code to push up your little ego and then don't help when it sucks need to see a shrink. *and* On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Scott McGrath scmcgr...@gmail.com wrote: [This] [h]as nothing to do with ego boosting has more to do with paying it forward for all the snippets of code and diagrams we used in the past to jump start our own efforts *I do not think motivation can be reduced simple categories such as ego or paying it forward. Both are parts of human nature, and both (and actually many more, e.g., faith, hope, and charity), in various proportions, make good things happen in the World. No one has to be totally selfless to do Good, and no one (or very very few) is really driven only by ego. * * * *Some do good work and give it away, perhaps unconsciously hoping for some *recognition* and maybe even some *praise.* Those are two very basic and very understandable human needs, except for a sociopath. Similarly, because humans are *social* animals, they also have needs, however sometimes suppressed, to *add value* to the lives of others. Egoistic impulses are not bad *per se*, any more than the desire for *power* is by itself bad. Without *power*, nothing can be accomplished, for good or bad. Likewise, though unrestrained ego--self will run riot--is a social nuisance and sometimes a danger, ego itself is what makes people get up in the morning. * * * *It is, therefore, sometimes more important to look to outcomes rather than motivations. From a practical standpoint, it matters vastly more that Good is done than that some superhuman purity of motive is behind it. This is well demonstrated in the Open Source hardware, software, and knowledge movements. * * * *73,* * * *Todd* K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8 QRP (CW SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
What a bunch of hooey. Another so called expert wasted hours of my time because he can't be bothered to either note that code is buggy or just can't be bothered.. If you don't want to release it, then don't. If you do and it's a POS, Expect emails. On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 2:16 PM, NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com wrote: On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Lizeth Norman normanliz...@gmail.com wrote: If you don't want to release it, then don't. If you do and it's a POS, Expect emails. Some I know use a dedicated email address when they post things intended as open source. They then set up an auto-respond message such as: *Thanks for taking interest in my [contribution]. I have made it freely available for your use, but unfortunately I am not able to answer email about it, or to assist in adapting it to your application. I suggest you look online for Yahoo forums or other discussion sites for answers.* They then have a filter that deletes the incoming email. 73, Todd K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8 QRP (CW SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
k7...@arrl.net said: Some I know use a dedicated email address when they post things intended as open source. They then set up an auto-respond message such as: Auto-responders are evil. The problem is that spammer's forge the return address. The response to any spam that gets past your filters will go back to an innocent victim. To the victim, it looks like spam. Don't be surprised if you get added to black lists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_%28e-mail%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounce_message#Bouncing_vs._rejecting It's much better to put that message out where people are finding the email address. If you didn't plan ahead that far, most mail systems will let you reject mail with some error text you provide which could include a URL. That does require cooperation from the people running the mail server so it probably won't work if you use gmail, hotmail, comcast or similar services. It's easy if you or a friend run the mail server. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
If you write something and want to publish it. Put it one Source Forge and then you get Subversion system to host the code, an email list people can join and a forum that is linked to it and bug tracking and so on and so on. You can keep up with the forum that is tied to your code or not. Users can join it if they like or not. The tools are all there for free. The bug tracker is us full and everything lives on THEIR server for free. On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: k7...@arrl.net said: Some I know use a dedicated email address when they post things intended as open source. They then set up an auto-respond message such as: Auto-responders are evil. The problem is that spammer's forge the return address. The response to any spam that gets past your filters will go back to an innocent victim. To the victim, it looks like spam. Don't be surprised if you get added to black lists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_%28e-mail%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounce_message#Bouncing_vs._rejecting It's much better to put that message out where people are finding the email address. If you didn't plan ahead that far, most mail systems will let you reject mail with some error text you provide which could include a URL. That does require cooperation from the people running the mail server so it probably won't work if you use gmail, hotmail, comcast or similar services. It's easy if you or a friend run the mail server. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
I thought that would work too. Look at this page: http://ko4bb.com/Manuals/03)_Manual_and_Test_Equipment_Links.php The tone may reflect some of my frustration. Please note that it is not really fine print and not exactly buried at the bottom of the page. Yet I get emails several times a week from random people asking me we what to do for their whatchamacallit because Q11 has 3.4 V on the collector when they think it should be 3.2. They think that because I have the manual on my site, I am an expert in that instrument, and that I have the time and inclination to help them. They won't even send me a copy of the relevant schematic page, they expect me to look it up. Someone said you can't help stupid, but I prefer to say I won't help people who won't help themselves first. It is more a matter of respect than intelligence. On the other hand, I also get several emails a month from people who thank me for hosting the site, so that more than makes up for it :) Didier Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Alan Melia alan.me...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi John Please dont take it down! remember there are more of us who quietly appreciate sites like yours. I once suggested to a query the answer was in the help file and background by googling or using wikipedia, and was told it was a lot easier and quicker to play dumb and ask.!! The way around that trick is to be firm. Make a policy of ONLY answering questions there the person states what he has already tried and where he has looked and then say you will only post links to answers. Really, this works. You post a ReadMe on a four with the rules of how to ask a question and you refer all poor questions to that. I also suggest you do as some do and say This is not a beginners project. If you do not understand the requirements or have the construction skills, please dont expect support for a freebie It prob wont stop it but it will give your a clearer conscience when you decline to reply :-)) Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:16 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera) On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Nexus 7 tablet. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
Hi Now consider that the project is 15 years old (not 2 to 3 years). My guess is that there still are an hour a day worth of emails coming in…. Add to that the I'd like you to add this feature for me / redesign it to do this people as the project gets older…. Yes I spent most of the 80's doing that stuff. The memories have almost dimmed enough …. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 2:16 PM, NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com wrote: On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
Hi John Please dont take it down! remember there are more of us who quietly appreciate sites like yours. I once suggested to a query the answer was in the help file and background by googling or using wikipedia, and was told it was a lot easier and quicker to play dumb and ask.!! I also suggest you do as some do and say This is not a beginners project. If you do not understand the requirements or have the construction skills, please dont expect support for a freebie It prob wont stop it but it will give your a clearer conscience when you decline to reply :-)) Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:16 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera) On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Alan Melia alan.me...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi John Please dont take it down! remember there are more of us who quietly appreciate sites like yours. I once suggested to a query the answer was in the help file and background by googling or using wikipedia, and was told it was a lot easier and quicker to play dumb and ask.!! The way around that trick is to be firm. Make a policy of ONLY answering questions there the person states what he has already tried and where he has looked and then say you will only post links to answers. Really, this works. You post a ReadMe on a four with the rules of how to ask a question and you refer all poor questions to that. I also suggest you do as some do and say This is not a beginners project. If you do not understand the requirements or have the construction skills, please dont expect support for a freebie It prob wont stop it but it will give your a clearer conscience when you decline to reply :-)) Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:16 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera) On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
Some times a project will take off when the number of users reaches a critical mass. There are many Open Source projects where the initial creator is long gone but the project lives on.How to get a project to that stage? First off you need numbers of users put allso you need some kind of communications forum like this one where the uesrs can help each other. In other words you need to build a community around the project. With the Thunderbolts getting more expensive we might see interrest agin on home brew GPSDOs. A comunity could ddevelope about these. That would be the goal of every Open Source author, to get out of the job of support and pass that job on to the community. On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:16 AM, NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com wrote: On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
A suggestion on this topic, because I would like to encourage more open source hardware and software publishing. Start a discussion group associated with the publishing, possibly without direct contact information on the author. Then the end users can hold each other's hand, helpful or misleading as that can be (we all see examples of that every day), but it gives the adopter a feeling he is not alone with what to the author or the rest see as blindingly obvious questions, while keeping the original contributor out of the loop, unless he decides to chime in under a true name or a pseudonym. Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM les...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: 5 Shrine Club Drive HC84 Box 89C Keyser WV 26726 GPS: 39.33675 N 78.9823527 W (Google) GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9023741 W (GPSDO) Telephones: Home: +1-304-289-6057 US cell +1-304-790-9192 UK cell +44-(0)7849-248-749 Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141 Jamaica: +1-876-456-8898 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
Hi Thunderbolts may make a comeback one of these days. Who knows what's sitting waiting to be scrapped out. At the risk of running up the price - the Trimble EBSCTM's are as good as a TBolt, and at the moment cheaper. They do lack a pps output, but 10 MHz seems to be the more popular output on the TBolt. For NTP use, they have a bunch of 1/2 pps (pulse every other second) outputs. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: Some times a project will take off when the number of users reaches a critical mass. There are many Open Source projects where the initial creator is long gone but the project lives on.How to get a project to that stage? First off you need numbers of users put allso you need some kind of communications forum like this one where the uesrs can help each other. In other words you need to build a community around the project. With the Thunderbolts getting more expensive we might see interrest agin on home brew GPSDOs. A comunity could ddevelope about these. That would be the goal of every Open Source author, to get out of the job of support and pass that job on to the community. On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:16 AM, NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com wrote: On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
Yes they do seem inexpensive at $139. I looked at some pix on e### and its not clear what port the 10 Mhz comes out of. There is a BNC on the back thats labeled BIT. Built in test. But that doesn't make much sense. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Thunderbolts may make a comeback one of these days. Who knows what's sitting waiting to be scrapped out. At the risk of running up the price - the Trimble EBSCTM's are as good as a TBolt, and at the moment cheaper. They do lack a pps output, but 10 MHz seems to be the more popular output on the TBolt. For NTP use, they have a bunch of 1/2 pps (pulse every other second) outputs. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: Some times a project will take off when the number of users reaches a critical mass. There are many Open Source projects where the initial creator is long gone but the project lives on.How to get a project to that stage? First off you need numbers of users put allso you need some kind of communications forum like this one where the uesrs can help each other. In other words you need to build a community around the project. With the Thunderbolts getting more expensive we might see interrest agin on home brew GPSDOs. A comunity could ddevelope about these. That would be the goal of every Open Source author, to get out of the job of support and pass that job on to the community. On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:16 AM, NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com wrote: On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Lester Veenstra les...@veenstras.com wrote: Start a discussion group associated with the publishing, possibly without direct contact information on the author. There is something seriously wrong if you cannot publish and share ideas without being swamped with support requests, to the point of having to do it anonymously. If a project is very successful, and support requests become a serious issue to the original developer, chances are it can be commercialized. There are many examples of Open Source Hardware projects with commercial support [1]. A high-precision Open Source GPSDO would certainly qualify. Sharing and discussing is great while it stays at a level which allows you to have fun. It is becomes a serious amount of work, and if users see a value in the support, they should be willing to pay for it. I think paid labor makes Open Source Hardware more scalable and sustainable. Cheers, Javier [1] This is e.g. a board we designed at CERN, which is commercialized by three companies (that we know of): http://www.ohwr.org/projects/spec/wiki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
Hi The BNC on the back is indeed a nice clean 10 MHz sine wave. The odd stuff comes out of the SMB jacks. The antenna is SMB as well, but at least some of the sellers include N to SMB adapter cables. The big D connector on the back has a bunch of LVDS 1/2 pps and LVDS CDMA chip x 4 outputs. There is also an RS-485 line and an LVDS loopback line. The beast runs with LH and responds to most of the normal stuff. It does not save the results of an auto-tune, but that's not as bad as a TBolt. The numbers they have as defaults are a lot closer to what they should be. They have a switcher in them, so no need for strange supplies. They have a switcher in them, so you get interesting spurs (just like the TBolt without a switcher …). Phase noise floor on the OCXO isn't quite as good as a TBolt, or the buffer amp really isn't doing it's job. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 5:01 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Yes they do seem inexpensive at $139. I looked at some pix on e### and its not clear what port the 10 Mhz comes out of. There is a BNC on the back thats labeled BIT. Built in test. But that doesn't make much sense. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Thunderbolts may make a comeback one of these days. Who knows what's sitting waiting to be scrapped out. At the risk of running up the price - the Trimble EBSCTM's are as good as a TBolt, and at the moment cheaper. They do lack a pps output, but 10 MHz seems to be the more popular output on the TBolt. For NTP use, they have a bunch of 1/2 pps (pulse every other second) outputs. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: Some times a project will take off when the number of users reaches a critical mass. There are many Open Source projects where the initial creator is long gone but the project lives on.How to get a project to that stage? First off you need numbers of users put allso you need some kind of communications forum like this one where the uesrs can help each other. In other words you need to build a community around the project. With the Thunderbolts getting more expensive we might see interrest agin on home brew GPSDOs. A comunity could ddevelope about these. That would be the goal of every Open Source author, to get out of the job of support and pass that job on to the community. On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:16 AM, NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com wrote: On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
In message CABbxVHuY3SB4x9LFsB9ubJuA_jc5ioqwS9=w=umwte9-ebz...@mail.gmail.com , Chris Albertson writes: The way around that trick is to be firm. Make a policy of ONLY answering questions there the person states what he has already tried and where he has looked and then say you will only post links to answers. I actually have an even more draconian policy, but for reasons which would be obvious if I disclosed it, I cannot disclose it :-) Yes, it is sort of security through obscurity, but I have a pretty high volume to filter out. For instance every other semester I still get a deluge of emails from Japan because a CS professor assigns some pretty nasty homework in some of my Open Source code[1] My large-scale reaction to the volume of feedback, has been to make the code I release less accessible, but still available. For instance I very seldom, if ever, write a usable HOWTO or even README file anymore. Usually I don't do any publicity unless I come across people who specifically ask for covered functionality, and give the impression that they can cope with the learning-curve. Yes, it's not the good and helpful neighbor I would love to be, but there is so much code to hack, and only so little time... But take it from me: It's still a good idea to make your projects available, because every so often, you'll make a new friend who is worth all the trouble. Poul-Henning [1] I've communicated with the professor, and we hashed out a scheme where I return a canned reply which goes That was covered in the lecture last week, right after the professor told the joke about ... Any student who is stupid enough to ask a TA or God forbid the Professor about the joke they missed, will get what they deserve. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
You can simply set up a phpbb forum. Most questions cam be answered by users of the software, who in turn can write a better FAQ because they DIDN'T write the program. This sounds counter intuitive, but you need outsiders to do documentation. What is obvious to the designer is not obvious to the user. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)
Thanks Gotta love this stuff for as long as its around. I would grab one but with a 3801 and Tbolt I have enough TekNowlogee already. Regards Paul On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi The BNC on the back is indeed a nice clean 10 MHz sine wave. The odd stuff comes out of the SMB jacks. The antenna is SMB as well, but at least some of the sellers include N to SMB adapter cables. The big D connector on the back has a bunch of LVDS 1/2 pps and LVDS CDMA chip x 4 outputs. There is also an RS-485 line and an LVDS loopback line. The beast runs with LH and responds to most of the normal stuff. It does not save the results of an auto-tune, but that's not as bad as a TBolt. The numbers they have as defaults are a lot closer to what they should be. They have a switcher in them, so no need for strange supplies. They have a switcher in them, so you get interesting spurs (just like the TBolt without a switcher …). Phase noise floor on the OCXO isn't quite as good as a TBolt, or the buffer amp really isn't doing it's job. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 5:01 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Yes they do seem inexpensive at $139. I looked at some pix on e### and its not clear what port the 10 Mhz comes out of. There is a BNC on the back thats labeled BIT. Built in test. But that doesn't make much sense. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Thunderbolts may make a comeback one of these days. Who knows what's sitting waiting to be scrapped out. At the risk of running up the price - the Trimble EBSCTM's are as good as a TBolt, and at the moment cheaper. They do lack a pps output, but 10 MHz seems to be the more popular output on the TBolt. For NTP use, they have a bunch of 1/2 pps (pulse every other second) outputs. Bob On Mar 28, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: Some times a project will take off when the number of users reaches a critical mass. There are many Open Source projects where the initial creator is long gone but the project lives on.How to get a project to that stage? First off you need numbers of users put allso you need some kind of communications forum like this one where the uesrs can help each other. In other words you need to build a community around the project. With the Thunderbolts getting more expensive we might see interrest agin on home brew GPSDOs. A comunity could ddevelope about these. That would be the goal of every Open Source author, to get out of the job of support and pass that job on to the community. On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:16 AM, NeonJohn j...@neon-john.com wrote: On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote: One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc. This can be a real distraction from whatever else you are doing. Boy, you can say that again. And open source hardware is even worse. A couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site. Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could think of. There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com. Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that project. Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my site or by a little googling. It's getting to be enough of a burden that I'm considering taking the page down. I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has tempered my enthusiasm a bit. And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation or coding style. Or electrical design style. I think that the people who want to argue design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more tiresome than the software know-it-alls. People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting the email button on a project site. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.fluxeon.com -- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and
