Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Don Latham]

Jim Lux
The very one...
Don

> Was that the same Boys who invented the Boys camera used to take
> lightning photographs?  It's a sort of rotating drum streak camera.
>
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-- 
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
who have not got it."
 -George Bernard Shaw


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLC
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
Skype: buffler2
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Harris]

Longbow, for very long fibres :)

Yes it was. He was the epitome of the experimental physicist who was also a
master instrument maker.
Boys also wrote an entertaining book on soap bubbles & surface tension
where as a demonstration he makes a mechanical amplifier using sound to
trigger a stream of drops of water to merge into large drops which then
fell onto a drumskin, turning the ticking of a watch up to deafening
proportions.


Tom Harris 


On 13 December 2013 15:13, Jim Lux  wrote:

> On 12/12/13 4:28 PM, Tom Harris wrote:
>
>> The eccentric English physicist Boys made quartz fibres by attaching one
>> end to a crossbow bolt, heating the middle and then firing the bolt, at
>> what I have been unable to determine. He used this to measure the
>> gravitational constant by suspending iron spheres from the resultant
>> fibre,
>> which of course was amazingly strong for it's diameter.
>>
>> Myself I'd use a pneumatic cannon, since I have one, rather than a
>> crossbow.
>>
>>
>>
> A crossbow is, shall we say, more English, although perhaps historically,
> a longbow might be more significant.
>
> Was that the same Boys who invented the Boys camera used to take lightning
> photographs?  It's a sort of rotating drum streak camera.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Harris]

It's in the section on lock in amplifiers I think. The switch has a clever
3 way action I think but I can't quire remember how it works. I do remember
thinking how ingenious it was at the time, since I was designing lock in
amplifiers for detecting optical absorbance over 10cm path lengths using
photodiodes, instead of the tradional PMTs.


Tom Harris 


On 13 December 2013 14:19, Brooke Clarke  wrote:

> :Hi Tom:
>
> I can't find anything in the Table of Contents or in the index.
> Can you tell me the page or title of the writeup?
>
>
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>
> Tom Harris wrote:
>
>> There is a good writeup of the Dicke switch in Horowitz & Hill "The Art of
>> Electronics", since Horiwitz is a radioastronomer of note. I've just
>> bought
>> my daughter a copy for Xmas, poor girl, she wants to be an engineer...
>>
>>
>> Tom Harris 
>>
>>
>> On 11 December 2013 13:02, Don Latham  wrote:
>>
>>  Brooke Clarke
>>>
>>>  PS When I was working in microwave electronics we talked about the Dicke
 radiometer, but I haven't found any definitive
 web page about that.

>>> Gotta look at Radio Astronomy pages and history. Actually, Dicke was
>>> using that radiometer to look for the microwave cosmic background, but
>>> the bell Labs guys had the big antenna. size matters :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
>>> who have not got it."
>>>   -George Bernard Shaw
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
>>> Six Mile Systems LLC
>>> 17850 Six Mile Road
>>> POB 134
>>> Huson, MT, 59846
>>> VOX 406-626-4304
>>> Skype: buffler2
>>> www.lightningforensics.com
>>> www.sixmilesystems.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>>  ___
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>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Jim Lux]

On 12/12/13 4:28 PM, Tom Harris wrote:

The eccentric English physicist Boys made quartz fibres by attaching one
end to a crossbow bolt, heating the middle and then firing the bolt, at
what I have been unable to determine. He used this to measure the
gravitational constant by suspending iron spheres from the resultant fibre,
which of course was amazingly strong for it's diameter.

Myself I'd use a pneumatic cannon, since I have one, rather than a crossbow.




A crossbow is, shall we say, more English, although perhaps 
historically, a longbow might be more significant.


Was that the same Boys who invented the Boys camera used to take 
lightning photographs?  It's a sort of rotating drum streak camera.


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Brooke Clarke]

:Hi Tom:

I can't find anything in the Table of Contents or in the index.
Can you tell me the page or title of the writeup?

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

Tom Harris wrote:

There is a good writeup of the Dicke switch in Horowitz & Hill "The Art of
Electronics", since Horiwitz is a radioastronomer of note. I've just bought
my daughter a copy for Xmas, poor girl, she wants to be an engineer...


Tom Harris 


On 11 December 2013 13:02, Don Latham  wrote:


Brooke Clarke


PS When I was working in microwave electronics we talked about the Dicke
radiometer, but I haven't found any definitive
web page about that.

Gotta look at Radio Astronomy pages and history. Actually, Dicke was
using that radiometer to look for the microwave cosmic background, but
the bell Labs guys had the big antenna. size matters :-)




--
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
who have not got it."
  -George Bernard Shaw


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLC
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
Skype: buffler2
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Harris]

There is a good writeup of the Dicke switch in Horowitz & Hill "The Art of
Electronics", since Horiwitz is a radioastronomer of note. I've just bought
my daughter a copy for Xmas, poor girl, she wants to be an engineer...


Tom Harris 


On 11 December 2013 13:02, Don Latham  wrote:

>
> Brooke Clarke
>
> > PS When I was working in microwave electronics we talked about the Dicke
> > radiometer, but I haven't found any definitive
> > web page about that.
>
> Gotta look at Radio Astronomy pages and history. Actually, Dicke was
> using that radiometer to look for the microwave cosmic background, but
> the bell Labs guys had the big antenna. size matters :-)
>
>
>
>
> --
> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
> who have not got it."
>  -George Bernard Shaw
>
>
> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
> Six Mile Systems LLC
> 17850 Six Mile Road
> POB 134
> Huson, MT, 59846
> VOX 406-626-4304
> Skype: buffler2
> www.lightningforensics.com
> www.sixmilesystems.com
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Harris]

The eccentric English physicist Boys made quartz fibres by attaching one
end to a crossbow bolt, heating the middle and then firing the bolt, at
what I have been unable to determine. He used this to measure the
gravitational constant by suspending iron spheres from the resultant fibre,
which of course was amazingly strong for it's diameter.

Myself I'd use a pneumatic cannon, since I have one, rather than a crossbow.


Tom Harris 


On 11 December 2013 15:55, Jim Lux  wrote:

> On 12/10/13 5:57 PM, Don Latham wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  I always thought invar was the magic metal. Quartz rod? You can get
>>> those
>>> at some reasonable cost?
>>>
>> 12 mm dia fused qtz, about $10 per ft, so under $40 to get going,
>> assuming 4 or 5 to learn how to do it right. It does break...
>> 12.7 mm dia Invar 1 m long is $530   Amazing, and quartz is better (A
>> single crystal would cost a pretty penny. I'm not sure a crystal that
>> long can be drawn using a zone furnace). Pyrex is also available.
>> These are quick 'net prices.
>>
>>
> John Strong's book tells how to make thin high-q fused silica fibers with
> an appropriate burner.  Just the thing for your torsion balance, etc. back
> in the day when a self respecting experimental physicist built their own
> equipment.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Van Baak]

Here's a well-written introduction to time & frequency article. Both a good 
overview for any newcomer to the group and some addition photos and recent 
information for the rest of us:

Time - the SI Base Unit "Second", by Andreas Bauch (PTB, 2012)
http://www.ptb.de/cms/fileadmin/internet/fachabteilungen/abteilung_4/4.4_zeit_und_frequenz/pdf/2012_Bauch_PTBM_125a_en.pdf

Brooke -- figure 2 is the Scheibe and Adelsberger plot I mentioned showing 
seasonal irregularity in earth rotation relative to laboratory quartz clocks, 
from 1934 to 1940. I'm tracking down evidence of earlier work.

Attila -- figure 5 is another example of a composite ADEV plot showing cesium, 
masers, etc. 

/tvb

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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements (Brooke Clarke)

[paul swed]

I stumbled across a paperback copy also and was impressed also. The funding
and wide range of experimentation he did.
Regards
Paul.


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:12 AM, DaveH  wrote:

> A second on the book. Wonderful read. His method for cleaning out an
> optical
> interferometer was delightful.
>
> Also, the 'standard' formal evening dress in that community became what we
> now know as the Tuxedo.
>
> Dave
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
> > [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of johncr...@aol.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 19:57
> > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements
> > (Brooke Clarke)
> >
> > It is not surprising that one can find little about Alfred
> > Loomis. He was notoriously publicity shy and never gave
> > interviews. Before his death he had much of research material
> > disposed of. However the private lab he created at Tuxedo
> > Park NY. was a gathering place for all of the key scientists
> > of his time. He used his considerable fortune to fund the
> > research of promising scientists. If anything was hot in
> > physics in the 30's and early 40's he was there. For example
> > he is in a photo taken at the early Berkley Summer Study
> > where the greats in physics gathered to determine the
> > feasibility of the A-Bomb.
> >
> > He was probably the last of the great "Gentleman Scientists".
> >
> > A great read is "Tuxedo Park" by Jennet Conant (yep of
> > the same family) first published in 2002.  I read a borrowed
> > copy then.  And with all the discussion about him, I recalled
> > the book. I tried Amazon and just got a Kindle edition. (The
> > amazon listing mentions Oppenheimer, but the book is all
> > about Loomis). Read the reviews if interested.
>
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <82901.1386754...@critter.freebsd.dk>, "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes:
>In message , "Do
>n Latham" writes:
>
>>I think if I were to start designing, I'd use a quartz rod instead,
>
>I'd go for SiC, like they did for the optics bench in the GAIA satellite

... I guess I should add: GAIA is currently scheduled for launch on
the 19th, and it has very stringent requirements for precise
on-board time, served by a Rb clock.


Gaia homepage:

http://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/gaia

About the clock requirements:

http://www.congrex.nl/EFTF_Proceedings/Papers/Session_15_GNSS_Timing_2/15_01_Droz_Fabien.pdf

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message , "Do
n Latham" writes:

>I think if I were to start designing, I'd use a quartz rod instead,

I'd go for SiC, like they did for the optics bench in the GAIA satellite


-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements (Brooke Clarke)

[DaveH]

A second on the book. Wonderful read. His method for cleaning out an optical
interferometer was delightful.

Also, the 'standard' formal evening dress in that community became what we
now know as the Tuxedo.

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
> [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of johncr...@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 19:57
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements 
> (Brooke Clarke)
> 
> It is not surprising that one can find little about Alfred 
> Loomis. He was notoriously publicity shy and never gave 
> interviews. Before his death he had much of research material 
> disposed of. However the private lab he created at Tuxedo 
> Park NY. was a gathering place for all of the key scientists 
> of his time. He used his considerable fortune to fund the 
> research of promising scientists. If anything was hot in 
> physics in the 30's and early 40's he was there. For example 
> he is in a photo taken at the early Berkley Summer Study 
> where the greats in physics gathered to determine the 
> feasibility of the A-Bomb.
> 
> He was probably the last of the great "Gentleman Scientists".
> 
> A great read is "Tuxedo Park" by Jennet Conant (yep of 
> the same family) first published in 2002.  I read a borrowed 
> copy then.  And with all the discussion about him, I recalled 
> the book. I tried Amazon and just got a Kindle edition. (The 
> amazon listing mentions Oppenheimer, but the book is all 
> about Loomis). Read the reviews if interested.

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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Jim Lux]

On 12/10/13 5:57 PM, Don Latham wrote:




I always thought invar was the magic metal. Quartz rod? You can get
those
at some reasonable cost?

12 mm dia fused qtz, about $10 per ft, so under $40 to get going,
assuming 4 or 5 to learn how to do it right. It does break...
12.7 mm dia Invar 1 m long is $530   Amazing, and quartz is better (A
single crystal would cost a pretty penny. I'm not sure a crystal that
long can be drawn using a zone furnace). Pyrex is also available.
These are quick 'net prices.



John Strong's book tells how to make thin high-q fused silica fibers 
with an appropriate burner.  Just the thing for your torsion balance, 
etc. back in the day when a self respecting experimental physicist built 
their own equipment.


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements (Brooke Clarke)

[johncroos]

It is not surprising that one can find little about Alfred Loomis. He was 
notoriously publicity shy and never gave interviews. Before his death he had 
much of research material disposed of. However the private lab he created at 
Tuxedo Park NY. was a gathering place for all of the key scientists of his 
time. He used his considerable fortune to fund the research of promising 
scientists. If anything was hot in physics in the 30's and early 40's he was 
there. For example he is in a photo taken at the early Berkley Summer Study 
where the greats in physics gathered to determine the feasibility of the A-Bomb.

He was probably the last of the great "Gentleman Scientists".

A great read is "Tuxedo Park" by Jennet Conant (yep of the same family) 
first published in 2002.  I read a borrowed copy then.  And with all the 
discussion about him, I recalled the book. I tried Amazon and just got a Kindle 
edition. (The amazon listing mentions Oppenheimer, but the book is all about 
Loomis). Read the reviews if interested.

- 73 john k6iql


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Don Latham]

Brooke Clarke

> PS When I was working in microwave electronics we talked about the Dicke
> radiometer, but I haven't found any definitive
> web page about that.

Gotta look at Radio Astronomy pages and history. Actually, Dicke was
using that radiometer to look for the microwave cosmic background, but
the bell Labs guys had the big antenna. size matters :-)




-- 
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
who have not got it."
 -George Bernard Shaw


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLC
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
Skype: buffler2
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Don Latham]

> I always thought invar was the magic metal. Quartz rod? You can get
> those
> at some reasonable cost?
12 mm dia fused qtz, about $10 per ft, so under $40 to get going,
assuming 4 or 5 to learn how to do it right. It does break...
12.7 mm dia Invar 1 m long is $530   Amazing, and quartz is better (A
single crystal would cost a pretty penny. I'm not sure a crystal that
long can be drawn using a zone furnace). Pyrex is also available.
These are quick 'net prices.


> What I am curious about is there a wear mechanism on these really good
> clocks.
> Does the pendulum just swing on a bending piece of metal or on a
> bearing?

most on bending metal. The 100 lb weight Foucault pendulum at Griffith
Observatory that I liked as a kid, 65 yr ago, simply had a piano wire
chucked in a pin vise. Lasted until now, AFIK.
Qtz rod would require some kind of epoxied cap etc. There are also knife
edge bearings and the like. The Q of the pendulum depends in part on the
energy lost in the support "hinge". OTH, some energy has to be lost in
order to quell possible chaotic modes (that's my opinion and I'm
stickin' to it)

> To the technical side isn't it sort of cheating the wonder of the clock
> using gps correction.
Yep.

I mean at that point there is no point.
> I am asking these questions because its sort of the thing I would not
> mind
> crafting.
> Regards
> Paul.
> WB8TSL
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Don Latham  wrote:
>
>> Brian and Tom: I second as well. It's important to be aware of the
>> past.
>> Somewhere around here is a 4 ft length of Invar, 1/2 in. diameter. It
>> was supposed to be a pendulum rod. However, I did read that Invar
>> displays rearrangement noise of some kind. Kinda like the jumps in a
>> quartz element?
>> I think if I were to start designing, I'd use a quartz rod instead,
>> coefficient of thermal expansion is smaller. I'll bet that a large
>> majority of time-nuts have at least read about pendulum timekeepers...
>> The Smithsonian has a Schortt clock, as well as a couple of others. I
>> am
>> sad that they aren't running.
>> Don
>>
>> Brian, WA1ZMS
>> > FWIW
>> >
>> > Let me just second Tom's last comment:
>> > "Some of you readers might wonder why in this GPS age, two time
>> nuts,
>> > each
>> > with plenty of atomic clocks at home, would be talking about vintage
>> > pendulum clocks. It turns out that pendulum clocks are still
>> extremely
>> > interesting timekeepers, from an experimental, scientific, and
>> > historical
>> > perspective."
>> >
>> > About 2 years ago the Time Nut in me became very interested in
>> pendulum
>> > clocks that were made in my home town in Vermont going back as far
>> as
>> > 1797.
>> > I now own several and a project is to take one of them that has a
>> > dead-beat
>> > escapement (often noted for its better "accuracy" display of seconds
>> > with an
>> > 10 inch sweep hand in its day) into the 21st century with frequency
>> > locking
>> > of the pendulum to the 1PPS from one of my GPS receivers.
>> >
>> > AlsoAn antique clock dealer who is friend of mine was well
>> pleased
>> > with
>> > TVB's talk at a recent time conference on the West Coast.  So it is
>> a
>> > mix of
>> > old and new for me at this point.   Apologies if this goes OT.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > -Brian, WA1ZMS/4
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]
>> On
>> > Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:48 PM
>> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements
>> >
>> >> The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent
>> >> Measurements"
>> > (1984)  paragraph that's in error.
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_
>> >> measurement
>> >>
>> >> While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day
>> >> (i.e. 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the effect of the
>> moon
>> >> on
>> > this clock a long time ago.
>> >
>> > Hi Brooke,
>> >
>> > The wiki page is correct. The heading is "Recent Measurements" and
>> > Pierre
>> &g

Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Tom:

Here's a web page that has an annotated list of some patents applicable to 
pendulums:
http://www.prc68.com/I/Pendulums.shtml
Many of the early gravity meters were just pendulums, then came the falling 
corner reflectors.

There are a couple of patents by Dicke and this one:
3036465  
Gravity Meter,
It may be close to your "Dream pendulum" has a Q of about a million.

PS When I was working in microwave electronics we talked about the Dicke radiometer, but I haven't found any definitive 
web page about that.
It was just a SPDT switch on the input to a low noise amplifier that alternated between an antenna and a termination at 
a known temperature (kTBR).
One of our employes used that idea with a piston driven by a PN code to change the input pressure to a steam generating 
plant and using a correlation function on the electrical output electrical power to get the plant's impulse response.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock-in_amplifier
"The lock-in amplifier is commonly believed to be invented by Princeton University 
 physicist Robert H. Dicke 
 who founded the company Princeton Applied Research (PAR) to market the 
product."


Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

Tom Van Baak wrote:

The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent Measurements" (1984)  
paragraph that's in error.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_measurement

While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day (i.e. 2E-9) 
I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the
effect of the moon on this clock a long time ago.

Hi Brooke,

The wiki page is correct. The heading is "Recent Measurements" and Pierre 
Boucheron's 1984 effort certainly qualifies. Note the wiki doesn't claim Boucheron was 
the first. In fact, even 30 years old, it is still the most recent, and the only Shortt 
experiment for which we have raw data. See http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/ for details.

One could try claiming that Loomis was the first to make detailed measurements of a Shortt, but it 
would take some digging to prove he was "first" and not just "one of the 
first". I mean, if you look at the list of who received the one hundred Shortt's that were 
manufactured, many laboratories had more than one, not to mention the ones that William Shortt 
himself owned at the factory. Certainly there was a lot of time measurement going on in the 20's 
and 30's. It would take a lot of work to uncover what was known by whom and when. Or who published 
first or not.

I think Loomis took it a wonderful extreme with his spark chronograph and 
quartz oscillator via telephone time transfer setup. And that be bought three 
clocks at once is classic and inspiring to any time nut! So I agree, Loomis 
deserves mention on the Shortt wiki page.

Unrelated to gravity and tides, is the role that vacuum pendulum and ovenized 
quartz clocks had in confirming that earth rotation was itself irregular at the 
millisecond level. Credit for that usually goes to Scheibe and Adelsberger in 
the late 30's, not Shortt or Loomis. And that of course blends into the story 
of the leap second...

See my scan/OCR historical pendulum collection: http://leapsecond.com/pend/pdf/
And my own precision pendulum-nut articles: http://leapsecond.com/hsn2006/

Some of you readers might wonder why in this GPS age, two time nuts, each with 
plenty of atomic clocks at home, would be talking about vintage pendulum 
clocks. It turns out that pendulum clocks are still extremely interesting 
timekeepers, from an experimental, scientific, and historical perspective.

/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[paul swed]

Been reading and not getting tangled up. Agree that it seems like a
reasonable subject. Though I have no pendulum clocks. I was struck by their
beauty up in Canada at TVAs television studios. On the wall was this
amazing clock on a huge slab of metal. All it needed was a battery. Other
then that it was clean and gently pushing the pendulum seemed to make it
work. It was to go into there historical museum someday.
I always thought invar was the magic metal. Quartz rod? You can get those
at some reasonable cost?
What I am curious about is there a wear mechanism on these really good
clocks.
Does the pendulum just swing on a bending piece of metal or on a bearing?

To the technical side isn't it sort of cheating the wonder of the clock
using gps correction. I mean at that point there is no point.
I am asking these questions because its sort of the thing I would not mind
crafting.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Don Latham  wrote:

> Brian and Tom: I second as well. It's important to be aware of the past.
> Somewhere around here is a 4 ft length of Invar, 1/2 in. diameter. It
> was supposed to be a pendulum rod. However, I did read that Invar
> displays rearrangement noise of some kind. Kinda like the jumps in a
> quartz element?
> I think if I were to start designing, I'd use a quartz rod instead,
> coefficient of thermal expansion is smaller. I'll bet that a large
> majority of time-nuts have at least read about pendulum timekeepers...
> The Smithsonian has a Schortt clock, as well as a couple of others. I am
> sad that they aren't running.
> Don
>
> Brian, WA1ZMS
> > FWIW
> >
> > Let me just second Tom's last comment:
> > "Some of you readers might wonder why in this GPS age, two time nuts,
> > each
> > with plenty of atomic clocks at home, would be talking about vintage
> > pendulum clocks. It turns out that pendulum clocks are still extremely
> > interesting timekeepers, from an experimental, scientific, and
> > historical
> > perspective."
> >
> > About 2 years ago the Time Nut in me became very interested in pendulum
> > clocks that were made in my home town in Vermont going back as far as
> > 1797.
> > I now own several and a project is to take one of them that has a
> > dead-beat
> > escapement (often noted for its better "accuracy" display of seconds
> > with an
> > 10 inch sweep hand in its day) into the 21st century with frequency
> > locking
> > of the pendulum to the 1PPS from one of my GPS receivers.
> >
> > AlsoAn antique clock dealer who is friend of mine was well pleased
> > with
> > TVB's talk at a recent time conference on the West Coast.  So it is a
> > mix of
> > old and new for me at this point.   Apologies if this goes OT.
> >
> > Regards,
> > -Brian, WA1ZMS/4
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
> > Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:48 PM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements
> >
> >> The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent
> >> Measurements"
> > (1984)  paragraph that's in error.
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_
> >> measurement
> >>
> >> While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day
> >> (i.e. 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the effect of the moon
> >> on
> > this clock a long time ago.
> >
> > Hi Brooke,
> >
> > The wiki page is correct. The heading is "Recent Measurements" and
> > Pierre
> > Boucheron's 1984 effort certainly qualifies. Note the wiki doesn't claim
> > Boucheron was the first. In fact, even 30 years old, it is still the
> > most
> > recent, and the only Shortt experiment for which we have raw data. See
> > http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/ for details.
> >
> > One could try claiming that Loomis was the first to make detailed
> > measurements of a Shortt, but it would take some digging to prove he was
> > "first" and not just "one of the first". I mean, if you look at the list
> > of
> > who received the one hundred Shortt's that were manufactured, many
> > laboratories had more than one, not to mention the ones that William
> > Shortt
> > himself owned at the factory. Certainly there was a lot of time
> > measurement
> > going on in the 20's and 30's. It w

Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Don Latham]

Brian and Tom: I second as well. It's important to be aware of the past.
Somewhere around here is a 4 ft length of Invar, 1/2 in. diameter. It
was supposed to be a pendulum rod. However, I did read that Invar
displays rearrangement noise of some kind. Kinda like the jumps in a
quartz element?
I think if I were to start designing, I'd use a quartz rod instead,
coefficient of thermal expansion is smaller. I'll bet that a large
majority of time-nuts have at least read about pendulum timekeepers...
The Smithsonian has a Schortt clock, as well as a couple of others. I am
sad that they aren't running.
Don

Brian, WA1ZMS
> FWIW
>
> Let me just second Tom's last comment:
> "Some of you readers might wonder why in this GPS age, two time nuts,
> each
> with plenty of atomic clocks at home, would be talking about vintage
> pendulum clocks. It turns out that pendulum clocks are still extremely
> interesting timekeepers, from an experimental, scientific, and
> historical
> perspective."
>
> About 2 years ago the Time Nut in me became very interested in pendulum
> clocks that were made in my home town in Vermont going back as far as
> 1797.
> I now own several and a project is to take one of them that has a
> dead-beat
> escapement (often noted for its better "accuracy" display of seconds
> with an
> 10 inch sweep hand in its day) into the 21st century with frequency
> locking
> of the pendulum to the 1PPS from one of my GPS receivers.
>
> AlsoAn antique clock dealer who is friend of mine was well pleased
> with
> TVB's talk at a recent time conference on the West Coast.  So it is a
> mix of
> old and new for me at this point.   Apologies if this goes OT.
>
> Regards,
> -Brian, WA1ZMS/4
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:48 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements
>
>> The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent
>> Measurements"
> (1984)  paragraph that's in error.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_
>> measurement
>>
>> While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day
>> (i.e. 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the effect of the moon
>> on
> this clock a long time ago.
>
> Hi Brooke,
>
> The wiki page is correct. The heading is "Recent Measurements" and
> Pierre
> Boucheron's 1984 effort certainly qualifies. Note the wiki doesn't claim
> Boucheron was the first. In fact, even 30 years old, it is still the
> most
> recent, and the only Shortt experiment for which we have raw data. See
> http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/ for details.
>
> One could try claiming that Loomis was the first to make detailed
> measurements of a Shortt, but it would take some digging to prove he was
> "first" and not just "one of the first". I mean, if you look at the list
> of
> who received the one hundred Shortt's that were manufactured, many
> laboratories had more than one, not to mention the ones that William
> Shortt
> himself owned at the factory. Certainly there was a lot of time
> measurement
> going on in the 20's and 30's. It would take a lot of work to uncover
> what
> was known by whom and when. Or who published first or not.
>
> I think Loomis took it a wonderful extreme with his spark chronograph
> and
> quartz oscillator via telephone time transfer setup. And that be bought
> three clocks at once is classic and inspiring to any time nut! So I
> agree,
> Loomis deserves mention on the Shortt wiki page.
>
> Unrelated to gravity and tides, is the role that vacuum pendulum and
> ovenized quartz clocks had in confirming that earth rotation was itself
> irregular at the millisecond level. Credit for that usually goes to
> Scheibe
> and Adelsberger in the late 30's, not Shortt or Loomis. And that of
> course
> blends into the story of the leap second...
>
> See my scan/OCR historical pendulum collection:
> http://leapsecond.com/pend/pdf/ And my own precision pendulum-nut
> articles:
> http://leapsecond.com/hsn2006/
>
> Some of you readers might wonder why in this GPS age, two time nuts,
> each
> with plenty of atomic clocks at home, would be talking about vintage
> pendulum clocks. It turns out that pendulum clocks are still extremely
> interesting timekeepers, from an experimental, scientific, and
> historical
> perspective.
>
> /tvb
>
>
> 

Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Brian, WA1ZMS]

FWIW

Let me just second Tom's last comment:
"Some of you readers might wonder why in this GPS age, two time nuts, each
with plenty of atomic clocks at home, would be talking about vintage
pendulum clocks. It turns out that pendulum clocks are still extremely
interesting timekeepers, from an experimental, scientific, and historical
perspective."

About 2 years ago the Time Nut in me became very interested in pendulum
clocks that were made in my home town in Vermont going back as far as 1797.
I now own several and a project is to take one of them that has a dead-beat
escapement (often noted for its better "accuracy" display of seconds with an
10 inch sweep hand in its day) into the 21st century with frequency locking
of the pendulum to the 1PPS from one of my GPS receivers.

AlsoAn antique clock dealer who is friend of mine was well pleased with
TVB's talk at a recent time conference on the West Coast.  So it is a mix of
old and new for me at this point.   Apologies if this goes OT.

Regards,
-Brian, WA1ZMS/4


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:48 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

> The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent Measurements"
(1984)  paragraph that's in error.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_
> measurement
> 
> While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day 
> (i.e. 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the effect of the moon on
this clock a long time ago.

Hi Brooke,

The wiki page is correct. The heading is "Recent Measurements" and Pierre
Boucheron's 1984 effort certainly qualifies. Note the wiki doesn't claim
Boucheron was the first. In fact, even 30 years old, it is still the most
recent, and the only Shortt experiment for which we have raw data. See
http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/ for details.

One could try claiming that Loomis was the first to make detailed
measurements of a Shortt, but it would take some digging to prove he was
"first" and not just "one of the first". I mean, if you look at the list of
who received the one hundred Shortt's that were manufactured, many
laboratories had more than one, not to mention the ones that William Shortt
himself owned at the factory. Certainly there was a lot of time measurement
going on in the 20's and 30's. It would take a lot of work to uncover what
was known by whom and when. Or who published first or not.

I think Loomis took it a wonderful extreme with his spark chronograph and
quartz oscillator via telephone time transfer setup. And that be bought
three clocks at once is classic and inspiring to any time nut! So I agree,
Loomis deserves mention on the Shortt wiki page.

Unrelated to gravity and tides, is the role that vacuum pendulum and
ovenized quartz clocks had in confirming that earth rotation was itself
irregular at the millisecond level. Credit for that usually goes to Scheibe
and Adelsberger in the late 30's, not Shortt or Loomis. And that of course
blends into the story of the leap second...

See my scan/OCR historical pendulum collection:
http://leapsecond.com/pend/pdf/ And my own precision pendulum-nut articles:
http://leapsecond.com/hsn2006/

Some of you readers might wonder why in this GPS age, two time nuts, each
with plenty of atomic clocks at home, would be talking about vintage
pendulum clocks. It turns out that pendulum clocks are still extremely
interesting timekeepers, from an experimental, scientific, and historical
perspective.

/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

>One could try claiming that Loomis was the first to make detailed
>measurements of a Shortt, but it would take some digging to prove
>he was "first" and not just "one of the first".

Just FYI:

During my reading of BSTJ I noticed a reference to a paper by
Loomis and Marrington at bottom of p4:

www3.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/vol11-1932/articles/bstj11-2-318.pdf


-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Van Baak]

> The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent Measurements" 
> (1984)  paragraph that's in error.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_measurement
> 
> While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day (i.e. 
> 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the 
> effect of the moon on this clock a long time ago.

Hi Brooke,

The wiki page is correct. The heading is "Recent Measurements" and Pierre 
Boucheron's 1984 effort certainly qualifies. Note the wiki doesn't claim 
Boucheron was the first. In fact, even 30 years old, it is still the most 
recent, and the only Shortt experiment for which we have raw data. See 
http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/ for details.

One could try claiming that Loomis was the first to make detailed measurements 
of a Shortt, but it would take some digging to prove he was "first" and not 
just "one of the first". I mean, if you look at the list of who received the 
one hundred Shortt's that were manufactured, many laboratories had more than 
one, not to mention the ones that William Shortt himself owned at the factory. 
Certainly there was a lot of time measurement going on in the 20's and 30's. It 
would take a lot of work to uncover what was known by whom and when. Or who 
published first or not.

I think Loomis took it a wonderful extreme with his spark chronograph and 
quartz oscillator via telephone time transfer setup. And that be bought three 
clocks at once is classic and inspiring to any time nut! So I agree, Loomis 
deserves mention on the Shortt wiki page.

Unrelated to gravity and tides, is the role that vacuum pendulum and ovenized 
quartz clocks had in confirming that earth rotation was itself irregular at the 
millisecond level. Credit for that usually goes to Scheibe and Adelsberger in 
the late 30's, not Shortt or Loomis. And that of course blends into the story 
of the leap second...

See my scan/OCR historical pendulum collection: http://leapsecond.com/pend/pdf/
And my own precision pendulum-nut articles: http://leapsecond.com/hsn2006/

Some of you readers might wonder why in this GPS age, two time nuts, each with 
plenty of atomic clocks at home, would be talking about vintage pendulum 
clocks. It turns out that pendulum clocks are still extremely interesting 
timekeepers, from an experimental, scientific, and historical perspective.

/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Knox]

There should be some error if you are to buy into Dr Allan's new gravitational 
theory. Has anyone attempted to duplicate his experiments concerning high 
energy density effects on a Shortt Clock? I posted a link to Dr Allan's web 
site last night on this thread.

Thomas Knox



> From: t...@leapsecond.com
> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 18:39:26 -0800
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements
> 
> Brooke,
> 
> Not sure what you find in error; please explain.
> 
> I have all the Shortt info you need. Not all of it is for Wikipedia; contact 
> me off-line.
> 
> Just got back from the CalTech
> Time Symposium:
> http://leapsecond.com/nawcc2013/
> 
> The conjecture about tides is explained in great detail here:
> http://leapsecond.com/hsn2006/
> 
> Meanwhile, see:
> http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/
> http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/1931-RAS-Analysis-Loomis-Chronograph-Brown-Brouwer.pdf
> http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/1931-RAS-Precise-Measurement-Time-Loomis.pdf
> 
> /tvb (i5s)
> 
> > On Dec 9, 2013, at 5:02 PM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi:
> > 
> > The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent Measurements" 
> > (1984)  paragraph that's in error.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_measurement
> > 
> > While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day (i.e. 
> > 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the effect of the moon on this 
> > clock a long time ago.
> > Is there a link to his paper at the Royal Society on that topic that could 
> > be added to the Wiki page?
> > 
> > Also see:
> > http://www.amazon.com/Tuxedo-Park-Street-Science-Changed/dp/0684872889/ref=sr_1_1
> > http://www.leapsecond.com/hsn2006/ch1.htm
> > 
> > -- 
> > Have Fun,
> > 
> > Brooke Clarke
> > http://www.PRC68.com
> > http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> > 
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to 
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> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Ed, k1ggi]

Its not in the Loomis article, lunar influence is in the Brown and Brouwer
analysis, beginning on pg. 581.


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bill Hawkins
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 11:12 AM
To: 'Bill Hawkins'; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

Sorry, I should have read the article. It was found by asking for
"Loomis moon pendulum"
The article is fascinating to Shortt clock fans, but does not mention
the moon.
Use their "page back" to get the whole article.

Bill Hawkins 

-Original Message-
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:b...@iaxs.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:54 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

Here's a specific reference from 1931:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1931MNRAS..91..575B

Bill Hawkins
 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:55 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

Hi Tom:

The way I read the comment about detecting the influence of the Moon was
that it was discovered in 1984, but I was under the impression that
Loomis found it long before.
I looked on other Wiki pages and did not see on any of the them
information about Loomis and the effect of the Moon on pendulum clocks.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Bill Hawkins]

Sorry, I should have read the article. It was found by asking for
"Loomis moon pendulum"
The article is fascinating to Shortt clock fans, but does not mention
the moon.
Use their "page back" to get the whole article.

Bill Hawkins 

-Original Message-
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:b...@iaxs.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:54 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

Here's a specific reference from 1931:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1931MNRAS..91..575B

Bill Hawkins
 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:55 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

Hi Tom:

The way I read the comment about detecting the influence of the Moon was
that it was discovered in 1984, but I was under the impression that
Loomis found it long before.
I looked on other Wiki pages and did not see on any of the them
information about Loomis and the effect of the Moon on pendulum clocks.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Bill Hawkins]

Here's a specific reference from 1931:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1931MNRAS..91..575B

Bill Hawkins
 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:55 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

Hi Tom:

The way I read the comment about detecting the influence of the Moon was
that it was discovered in 1984, but I was under the impression that
Loomis found it long before.
I looked on other Wiki pages and did not see on any of the them
information about Loomis and the effect of the Moon on pendulum clocks.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html


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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Tom:

The way I read the comment about detecting the influence of the Moon was that it was discovered in 1984, but I was under 
the impression that Loomis found it long before.
I looked on other Wiki pages and did not see on any of the them information about Loomis and the effect of the Moon on 
pendulum clocks.


Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

Tom Van Baak (lab) wrote:

Brooke,

Not sure what you find in error; please explain.

I have all the Shortt info you need. Not all of it is for Wikipedia; contact me 
off-line.

Just got back from the CalTech
Time Symposium:
http://leapsecond.com/nawcc2013/

The conjecture about tides is explained in great detail here:
http://leapsecond.com/hsn2006/

Meanwhile, see:
http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/
http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/1931-RAS-Analysis-Loomis-Chronograph-Brown-Brouwer.pdf
http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/1931-RAS-Precise-Measurement-Time-Loomis.pdf

/tvb (i5s)


On Dec 9, 2013, at 5:02 PM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:

Hi:

The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent Measurements" (1984)  
paragraph that's in error.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_measurement

While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day (i.e. 2E-9) 
I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the effect of the moon on this clock a long 
time ago.
Is there a link to his paper at the Royal Society on that topic that could be 
added to the Wiki page?

Also see:
http://www.amazon.com/Tuxedo-Park-Street-Science-Changed/dp/0684872889/ref=sr_1_1
http://www.leapsecond.com/hsn2006/ch1.htm

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Van Baak (lab)]

Brooke,

Not sure what you find in error; please explain.

I have all the Shortt info you need. Not all of it is for Wikipedia; contact me 
off-line.

Just got back from the CalTech
Time Symposium:
http://leapsecond.com/nawcc2013/

The conjecture about tides is explained in great detail here:
http://leapsecond.com/hsn2006/

Meanwhile, see:
http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/
http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/1931-RAS-Analysis-Loomis-Chronograph-Brown-Brouwer.pdf
http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/1931-RAS-Precise-Measurement-Time-Loomis.pdf

/tvb (i5s)

> On Dec 9, 2013, at 5:02 PM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:
> 
> Hi:
> 
> The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent Measurements" 
> (1984)  paragraph that's in error.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_measurement
> 
> While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day (i.e. 
> 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the effect of the moon on this clock 
> a long time ago.
> Is there a link to his paper at the Royal Society on that topic that could be 
> added to the Wiki page?
> 
> Also see:
> http://www.amazon.com/Tuxedo-Park-Street-Science-Changed/dp/0684872889/ref=sr_1_1
> http://www.leapsecond.com/hsn2006/ch1.htm
> 
> -- 
> Have Fun,
> 
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Tom Knox]

I thought I needed to throw this in the mix. 
http://www.allanstime.com/Research/Pendulum/index.html 
Enjoy.

Thomas Knox



> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 17:02:22 -0800
> From: bro...@pacific.net
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements
> 
> Hi:
> 
> The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent Measurements" 
> (1984)  paragraph that's in error.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_measurement
> 
> While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day (i.e. 
> 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the 
> effect of the moon on this clock a long time ago.
> Is there a link to his paper at the Royal Society on that topic that could be 
> added to the Wiki page?
> 
> Also see:
> http://www.amazon.com/Tuxedo-Park-Street-Science-Changed/dp/0684872889/ref=sr_1_1
> http://www.leapsecond.com/hsn2006/ch1.htm
> 
> -- 
> Have Fun,
> 
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
  
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[time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

The Wiki page for the Shortt pendulum clock has a "Recent Measurements" (1984)  
paragraph that's in error.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock#Recent_accuracy_measurement

While it's probably true that the clock is stable to 200 uS per day (i.e. 2E-9) I believe Alfred Loomis discovered the 
effect of the moon on this clock a long time ago.

Is there a link to his paper at the Royal Society on that topic that could be 
added to the Wiki page?

Also see:
http://www.amazon.com/Tuxedo-Park-Street-Science-Changed/dp/0684872889/ref=sr_1_1
http://www.leapsecond.com/hsn2006/ch1.htm

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

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