Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Yes, search for info but, in short, the TBolt will improve the performance if its ambient temperature is controlled. LH can do that. Details and experiences in the archives. On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:25 AM, Ron Ward n6idl...@comcast.net wrote: Hi again: Okay. Thanks! Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal Murray Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 8:55 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature I don't know how to search the Time-Nut archive for specific information. From the headers that are normally not displayed by most mail systems: List-archive: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts Google also works nicely. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:55:07 -0700, Hal Murray wrote: I don't know how to search the Time-Nut archive for specific information. From the headers that are normally not displayed by most mail systems: List-archive: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts Google also works nicely. I use www.mail-archive.com , they have a great search facility http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/info.html volt-nuts is also present (this year) CFO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Hi: What is the temp chip reading? Is it reading the oven temperature or just the ambient temperature? Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 7:57 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature No, IIRC the problem is indeed with the chip because the new silicon release has no higher resolution temperature reading. The old chip allows this reading via an unofficial feature that the new chip has no longer. The TBolt firmware exploits this unofficial (but documented and known) method of reading. On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 3:29 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: It would be a worthy hack (in the classic sense) to extract the Tbolt firmware and patch it to work with the current temperature chips. -- Björn Hi Just in case this inadvertently heads of in the wrong direction . Lady Heather displays exactly what the TBolt firmware comes up with. The disconnect with the new sensor chip is between the TBolt firmware and the chip it's self. Bob On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com wrote: Do you know the part number of a chip to replace the DS1620? The part number is the same, DS1620. What is important is the revision of the DS1620. When Dallas Semiconductor/Maxim 'improved' the chip and went from REV-D (or D2) to REV-E they made a change in the way the data was sent to the outside world. Lady Heather displays the temperature from REV-E chips in distinct step instead of a smooth curve. I have used REV-C2 chips as replacement and they work just fine. Note the chip revision has little or nothing to do with the Trimble REV letter on the outside of the Thunderbolt case, the latest Thunderbolt revision from 2005 just happens to be a REV-E. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Hi: What is the temp chip reading? Is it reading the oven temperature or just the ambient temperature? Ron The DS1620 thermometer chip is in the corner of the pc board next to the RS232 connector and diagonally opposite the OXCO so it reads ambient temperature. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Yes, ambient/board temperature, not the OCXO oven temperature. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.comwrote: Hi: What is the temp chip reading? Is it reading the oven temperature or just the ambient temperature? Ron The DS1620 thermometer chip is in the corner of the pc board next to the RS232 connector and diagonally opposite the OXCO so it reads ambient temperature. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
The DS1620 is located just behind the RS-232 connector. This is on the far corner from the oscillator. Mike On 8/22/2012 12:59 PM, Ron Ward wrote: Hi: What is the temp chip reading? Is it reading the oven temperature or just the ambient temperature? Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 7:57 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature No, IIRC the problem is indeed with the chip because the new silicon release has no higher resolution temperature reading. The old chip allows this reading via an unofficial feature that the new chip has no longer. The TBolt firmware exploits this unofficial (but documented and known) method of reading. On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 3:29 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: It would be a worthy hack (in the classic sense) to extract the Tbolt firmware and patch it to work with the current temperature chips. -- Björn Hi Just in case this inadvertently heads of in the wrong direction…. Lady Heather displays exactly what the TBolt firmware comes up with. The disconnect with the new sensor chip is between the TBolt firmware and the chip it's self. Bob On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com wrote: Do you know the part number of a chip to replace the DS1620? The part number is the same, DS1620. What is important is the revision of the DS1620. When Dallas Semiconductor/Maxim 'improved' the chip and went from REV-D (or D2) to REV-E they made a change in the way the data was sent to the outside world. Lady Heather displays the temperature from REV-E chips in distinct step instead of a smooth curve. I have used REV-C2 chips as replacement and they work just fine. Note the chip revision has little or nothing to do with the Trimble REV letter on the outside of the Thunderbolt case, the latest Thunderbolt revision from 2005 just happens to be a REV-E. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Hi: Thanks for your quick response to my questions. I read here that there was information on controlling Thunderbolt's temperature using the thunderbolt as a PID temperature controller. Would a constant temperature for the thunderbolt produce a significant improvement in performance? I don't know how to search the Time-Nut archive for specific information. Thanks for all of the information and help! Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 1:21 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature Yes, ambient/board temperature, not the OCXO oven temperature. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.comwrote: Hi: What is the temp chip reading? Is it reading the oven temperature or just the ambient temperature? Ron The DS1620 thermometer chip is in the corner of the pc board next to the RS232 connector and diagonally opposite the OXCO so it reads ambient temperature. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
I don't know how to search the Time-Nut archive for specific information. From the headers that are normally not displayed by most mail systems: List-archive: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts Google also works nicely. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Hi again: Okay. Thanks! Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal Murray Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 8:55 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature I don't know how to search the Time-Nut archive for specific information. From the headers that are normally not displayed by most mail systems: List-archive: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts Google also works nicely. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Hi Just in case this inadvertently heads of in the wrong direction…. Lady Heather displays exactly what the TBolt firmware comes up with. The disconnect with the new sensor chip is between the TBolt firmware and the chip it's self. Bob On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com wrote: Do you know the part number of a chip to replace the DS1620? The part number is the same, DS1620. What is important is the revision of the DS1620. When Dallas Semiconductor/Maxim 'improved' the chip and went from REV-D (or D2) to REV-E they made a change in the way the data was sent to the outside world. Lady Heather displays the temperature from REV-E chips in distinct step instead of a smooth curve. I have used REV-C2 chips as replacement and they work just fine. Note the chip revision has little or nothing to do with the Trimble REV letter on the outside of the Thunderbolt case, the latest Thunderbolt revision from 2005 just happens to be a REV-E. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
It would be a worthy hack (in the classic sense) to extract the Tbolt firmware and patch it to work with the current temperature chips. -- Björn Hi Just in case this inadvertently heads of in the wrong direction . Lady Heather displays exactly what the TBolt firmware comes up with. The disconnect with the new sensor chip is between the TBolt firmware and the chip it's self. Bob On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com wrote: Do you know the part number of a chip to replace the DS1620? The part number is the same, DS1620. What is important is the revision of the DS1620. When Dallas Semiconductor/Maxim 'improved' the chip and went from REV-D (or D2) to REV-E they made a change in the way the data was sent to the outside world. Lady Heather displays the temperature from REV-E chips in distinct step instead of a smooth curve. I have used REV-C2 chips as replacement and they work just fine. Note the chip revision has little or nothing to do with the Trimble REV letter on the outside of the Thunderbolt case, the latest Thunderbolt revision from 2005 just happens to be a REV-E. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
No, IIRC the problem is indeed with the chip because the new silicon release has no higher resolution temperature reading. The old chip allows this reading via an unofficial feature that the new chip has no longer. The TBolt firmware exploits this unofficial (but documented and known) method of reading. On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 3:29 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: It would be a worthy hack (in the classic sense) to extract the Tbolt firmware and patch it to work with the current temperature chips. -- Björn Hi Just in case this inadvertently heads of in the wrong direction…. Lady Heather displays exactly what the TBolt firmware comes up with. The disconnect with the new sensor chip is between the TBolt firmware and the chip it's self. Bob On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com wrote: Do you know the part number of a chip to replace the DS1620? The part number is the same, DS1620. What is important is the revision of the DS1620. When Dallas Semiconductor/Maxim 'improved' the chip and went from REV-D (or D2) to REV-E they made a change in the way the data was sent to the outside world. Lady Heather displays the temperature from REV-E chips in distinct step instead of a smooth curve. I have used REV-C2 chips as replacement and they work just fine. Note the chip revision has little or nothing to do with the Trimble REV letter on the outside of the Thunderbolt case, the latest Thunderbolt revision from 2005 just happens to be a REV-E. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:38:42 -0500, Michael Blazer wrote: Do you know the part number of a chip to replace the DS1620? Mike Afaik this number on the eB.. site is a working good one a C2 : 140376728803 Sold by same guy with the 26Mhz ocxo's CFO - Denmark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
I have two Thunderbolts that I'm monitoring with Lady Heather. The temperature on the older unit (MFG 2/26/2004) seems to track the environment. The newer one (MFG 11-24-2004) shows 44.75 °C and only changes in increments of exactly 1°. All REV-E Thunderbolts with date codes after about mid-2004 used the DS1620 E chip and have this problem. Buyers have been told and believe the REV-E units are somehow superior to previous revisions so they will ask a known problem unit. I think they have seen articles on the internet that show really old units with the noisy Piezo OXCO and somehow believe that only the REV-E Thunderbolt has the newer Trimble OXCO, which is not true. After about 2001 all REV-A through E Thunderbolts had the new Trimble OXCO. I doubt you could find any with the older Piezo OXCO now. As far as I know there is only one U.S. seller of Thunderbolts on Ebay that replaces the DS1620 in these affected REV-E units with one that will display correctly with Lady Heather. I've heard several stories from buyers who have bought problem Thunderbolts from resellers, many of whom don't do any real testing to see their units work properly or are stable. Ask questions before you buy. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Do you know the part number of a chip to replace the DS1620? Mike On 8/16/2012 5:58 AM, Arthur Dent wrote: I have two Thunderbolts that I'm monitoring with Lady Heather. The temperature on the older unit (MFG 2/26/2004) seems to track the environment. The newer one (MFG 11-24-2004) shows 44.75 °C and only changes in increments of exactly 1°. All REV-E Thunderbolts with date codes after about mid-2004 used the DS1620 E chip and have this problem. Buyers have been told and believe the REV-E units are somehow superior to previous revisions so they will ask a known problem unit. I think they have seen articles on the internet that show really old units with the noisy Piezo OXCO and somehow believe that only the REV-E Thunderbolt has the newer Trimble OXCO, which is not true. After about 2001 all REV-A through E Thunderbolts had the new Trimble OXCO. I doubt you could find any with the older Piezo OXCO now. As far as I know there is only one U.S. seller of Thunderbolts on Ebay that replaces the DS1620 in these affected REV-E units with one that will display correctly with Lady Heather. I've heard several stories from buyers who have bought problem Thunderbolts from resellers, many of whom don't do any real testing to see their units work properly or are stable. Ask questions before you buy. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Do you know the part number of a chip to replace the DS1620? The part number is the same, DS1620. What is important is the revision of the DS1620. When Dallas Semiconductor/Maxim 'improved' the chip and went from REV-D (or D2) to REV-E they made a change in the way the data was sent to the outside world. Lady Heather displays the temperature from REV-E chips in distinct step instead of a smooth curve. I have used REV-C2 chips as replacement and they work just fine. Note the chip revision has little or nothing to do with the Trimble REV letter on the outside of the Thunderbolt case, the latest Thunderbolt revision from 2005 just happens to be a REV-E. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
I have two Thunderbolts that I'm monitoring with Lady Heather. The temperature on the older unit (MFG 2/26/2004) seems to track the environment. The newer one (MFG 11-24-2004) shows 44.75 °C and only changes in increments of exactly 1°. The DAC Voltage and frequency seem to be tracking similar traces. The older unit is running about 5.2 nS RMS, the newer unit 10.5 nS RMS. Both units have the same date for GPS (10.2, 11-14-2001) and APP (3.0, 6-27-2002). Is either unit operating normally? Do I have a setting different between the two units? Mike Blazer San Antonio, TX ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
I have two Thunderbolts that I'm monitoring with Lady Heather. The temperature on the older unit (MFG 2/26/2004) seems to track the environment. The newer one (MFG 11-24-2004) shows 44.75 °C and only changes in increments of exactly 1°. Sounds like the newer one has the newer temperature sender chip (DS1620). Briefly, the chip manufacturer changed the innards and the high-resolution display feature. Trimble did not update the Tbolt, but continued to use the newer version of the chip. IIRC, chip revisions prior to E work properly in the Tbolt, while Rev. E (and later, if such exist) do not. The cure is to replace the IC with an older revision chip. The archive has lots of information on this. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
