Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
Hi All of these gizmos come on the market cheap when they are being scrapped out. Once that process is over for a generation of parts, the pieces climb. There are only a few working strategies: 1) Buy several when they first come out. 2) Pay the going rate many years later. 3) Switch to other gizmos with other cost / feature tradeoffs. In this case the likely tradeoff is to one of the Nortel / Trimble units or to one of the later HP boxes. The Nortel / Trimbles are in the sub $150 price range delivered. The later HP's are a bit more expensive. The Nortel / Trimble's come mainly from RDR Electronics on the e-place. The HP's come from the other side of the Pacific Ocean. One other option - before I'd pay $300 for a possibly broken TBolt (I've got a few of those), I'd do an email to find out what a brand new GPSDO (with warranty) from Jackson Labs would cost me. Bob On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Frank Hughes hp_cisco...@yahoo.com wrote: Does it seem like the Trimble Thunderbolt units are becoming scarce, and commanding prices accordingly? The inexpensive used Thunderbolts predate my interest in GPSDOs so I can't speak to relative prices but if your budget is ~ $300 they're still readily available. The various 2PPS Trimble GPSTM boxes/boards seem to occupy the $200 Thunderbot-like niche and some work (somewhat) with Lady Heather if you're fond of that program. Various Z38xx devices are also candidates if you just want an inexpensive GPSDO in-a-box with 1 and 10M Hz (some with multiple outputs) if you are willing to deal with it's-not-quite-a-Z3801 behavior. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
As per Bob Camps Wisdom below, most of the thunderbolts and Z38XX have been well picked over, the remaining ones are usually poor in some way. The main problem seems to be unstable oscillators, invasive repair is required to meet specifications. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, 12 October 2013 10:52 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options??? Hi All of these gizmos come on the market cheap when they are being scrapped out. Once that process is over for a generation of parts, the pieces climb. There are only a few working strategies: 1) Buy several when they first come out. 2) Pay the going rate many years later. 3) Switch to other gizmos with other cost / feature tradeoffs. In this case the likely tradeoff is to one of the Nortel / Trimble units or to one of the later HP boxes. The Nortel / Trimbles are in the sub $150 price range delivered. The later HP's are a bit more expensive. The Nortel / Trimble's come mainly from RDR Electronics on the e-place. The HP's come from the other side of the Pacific Ocean. One other option - before I'd pay $300 for a possibly broken TBolt (I've got a few of those), I'd do an email to find out what a brand new GPSDO (with warranty) from Jackson Labs would cost me. Bob On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Frank Hughes hp_cisco...@yahoo.com wrote: Does it seem like the Trimble Thunderbolt units are becoming scarce, and commanding prices accordingly? The inexpensive used Thunderbolts predate my interest in GPSDOs so I can't speak to relative prices but if your budget is ~ $300 they're still readily available. The various 2PPS Trimble GPSTM boxes/boards seem to occupy the $200 Thunderbot-like niche and some work (somewhat) with Lady Heather if you're fond of that program. Various Z38xx devices are also candidates if you just want an inexpensive GPSDO in-a-box with 1 and 10M Hz (some with multiple outputs) if you are willing to deal with it's-not-quite-a-Z3801 behavior. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
I looked into the Jackson Labs products. Prices range from nearly $400 to almost $1300 for a dual-oven unit. Seemed reasonable, but higher than I'm willing to go at the moment. Maybe down the road Had a Z3801 which worked for 10 years, then failed - experimenter who bought it found the XO some 40 Hz off -- not correctible without invasive repair. I think he gave up and kept it for parts. I bought one ot the TB clones off the e-place, and am not yet sure whether it is good or not. It spends more time in RECOVERY mode than PHASE LOCKED, and the VCO voltage takes large jumps every time the number of satellites changes. Still scratching my head. Good luck! Jim wb4...@amsat.org On 10/12/2013 9:16 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: As per Bob Camps Wisdom below, most of the thunderbolts and Z38XX have been well picked over, the remaining ones are usually poor in some way. The main problem seems to be unstable oscillators, invasive repair is required to meet specifications. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, 12 October 2013 10:52 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options??? Hi All of these gizmos come on the market cheap when they are being scrapped out. Once that process is over for a generation of parts, the pieces climb. There are only a few working strategies: 1) Buy several when they first come out. 2) Pay the going rate many years later. 3) Switch to other gizmos with other cost / feature tradeoffs. In this case the likely tradeoff is to one of the Nortel / Trimble units or to one of the later HP boxes. The Nortel / Trimbles are in the sub $150 price range delivered. The later HP's are a bit more expensive. The Nortel / Trimble's come mainly from RDR Electronics on the e-place. The HP's come from the other side of the Pacific Ocean. One other option - before I'd pay $300 for a possibly broken TBolt (I've got a few of those), I'd do an email to find out what a brand new GPSDO (with warranty) from Jackson Labs would cost me. Bob On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Frank Hughes hp_cisco...@yahoo.com wrote: Does it seem like the Trimble Thunderbolt units are becoming scarce, and commanding prices accordingly? The inexpensive used Thunderbolts predate my interest in GPSDOs so I can't speak to relative prices but if your budget is ~ $300 they're still readily available. The various 2PPS Trimble GPSTM boxes/boards seem to occupy the $200 Thunderbot-like niche and some work (somewhat) with Lady Heather if you're fond of that program. Various Z38xx devices are also candidates if you just want an inexpensive GPSDO in-a-box with 1 and 10M Hz (some with multiple outputs) if you are willing to deal with it's-not-quite-a-Z3801 behavior. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
What is needed now is a easy to assemble DIY GPSDO. In the past people lost interest in such becuase you could buy a TB for $90. I'd think today now that we have $10 microcontroller boards that have USB connections and are self-programming we could make a GPSDO controller with justone of those boards and two cheap chips (plus a GPS and XO.) On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Jim Sanford wb4...@wb4gcs.org wrote: I looked into the Jackson Labs products. Prices range from nearly $400 to almost $1300 for a dual-oven unit. Seemed reasonable, but higher than I'm willing to go at the moment. Maybe down the road Had a Z3801 which worked for 10 years, then failed - experimenter who bought it found the XO some 40 Hz off -- not correctible without invasive repair. I think he gave up and kept it for parts. I bought one ot the TB clones off the e-place, and am not yet sure whether it is good or not. It spends more time in RECOVERY mode than PHASE LOCKED, and the VCO voltage takes large jumps every time the number of satellites changes. Still scratching my head. Good luck! Jim wb4...@amsat.org On 10/12/2013 9:16 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: As per Bob Camps Wisdom below, most of the thunderbolts and Z38XX have been well picked over, the remaining ones are usually poor in some way. The main problem seems to be unstable oscillators, invasive repair is required to meet specifications. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@**febo.comtime-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, 12 October 2013 10:52 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options??? Hi All of these gizmos come on the market cheap when they are being scrapped out. Once that process is over for a generation of parts, the pieces climb. There are only a few working strategies: 1) Buy several when they first come out. 2) Pay the going rate many years later. 3) Switch to other gizmos with other cost / feature tradeoffs. In this case the likely tradeoff is to one of the Nortel / Trimble units or to one of the later HP boxes. The Nortel / Trimbles are in the sub $150 price range delivered. The later HP's are a bit more expensive. The Nortel / Trimble's come mainly from RDR Electronics on the e-place. The HP's come from the other side of the Pacific Ocean. One other option - before I'd pay $300 for a possibly broken TBolt (I've got a few of those), I'd do an email to find out what a brand new GPSDO (with warranty) from Jackson Labs would cost me. Bob On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Frank Hughes hp_cisco...@yahoo.com wrote: Does it seem like the Trimble Thunderbolt units are becoming scarce, and commanding prices accordingly? The inexpensive used Thunderbolts predate my interest in GPSDOs so I can't speak to relative prices but if your budget is ~ $300 they're still readily available. The various 2PPS Trimble GPSTM boxes/boards seem to occupy the $200 Thunderbot-like niche and some work (somewhat) with Lady Heather if you're fond of that program. Various Z38xx devices are also candidates if you just want an inexpensive GPSDO in-a-box with 1 and 10M Hz (some with multiple outputs) if you are willing to deal with it's-not-quite-a-Z3801 behavior. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
Very tempting. I just ordered 100 and 1000MHz VCXOs from Fox Electronics, with the intent of locking them to my GPSDO. I think, in perusing various lists, I did see some 10 MHz devices at relatively affordable prices. (Somebody on this list pointed me to Fox, don't remember who.) A DIY GPSDO would be WONDERFUL! Already have a couple of Jupiter GPS boards with 1pps output Jim On 10/12/2013 11:54 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: What is needed now is a easy to assemble DIY GPSDO. In the past people lost interest in such becuase you could buy a TB for $90. I'd think today now that we have $10 microcontroller boards that have USB connections and are self-programming we could make a GPSDO controller with justone of those boards and two cheap chips (plus a GPS and XO.) On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Jim Sanford wb4...@wb4gcs.org mailto:wb4...@wb4gcs.org wrote: I looked into the Jackson Labs products. Prices range from nearly $400 to almost $1300 for a dual-oven unit. Seemed reasonable, but higher than I'm willing to go at the moment. Maybe down the road Had a Z3801 which worked for 10 years, then failed - experimenter who bought it found the XO some 40 Hz off -- not correctible without invasive repair. I think he gave up and kept it for parts. I bought one ot the TB clones off the e-place, and am not yet sure whether it is good or not. It spends more time in RECOVERY mode than PHASE LOCKED, and the VCO voltage takes large jumps every time the number of satellites changes. Still scratching my head. Good luck! Jim wb4...@amsat.org mailto:wb4...@amsat.org On 10/12/2013 9:16 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: As per Bob Camps Wisdom below, most of the thunderbolts and Z38XX have been well picked over, the remaining ones are usually poor in some way. The main problem seems to be unstable oscillators, invasive repair is required to meet specifications. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, 12 October 2013 10:52 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options??? Hi All of these gizmos come on the market cheap when they are being scrapped out. Once that process is over for a generation of parts, the pieces climb. There are only a few working strategies: 1) Buy several when they first come out. 2) Pay the going rate many years later. 3) Switch to other gizmos with other cost / feature tradeoffs. In this case the likely tradeoff is to one of the Nortel / Trimble units or to one of the later HP boxes. The Nortel / Trimbles are in the sub $150 price range delivered. The later HP's are a bit more expensive. The Nortel / Trimble's come mainly from RDR Electronics on the e-place. The HP's come from the other side of the Pacific Ocean. One other option - before I'd pay $300 for a possibly broken TBolt (I've got a few of those), I'd do an email to find out what a brand new GPSDO (with warranty) from Jackson Labs would cost me. Bob On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net mailto:tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Frank Hughes hp_cisco...@yahoo.com mailto:hp_cisco...@yahoo.com wrote: Does it seem like the Trimble Thunderbolt units are becoming scarce, and commanding prices accordingly? The inexpensive used Thunderbolts predate my interest in GPSDOs so I can't speak to relative prices but if your budget is ~ $300 they're still readily available. The various 2PPS Trimble GPSTM boxes/boards seem to occupy the $200 Thunderbot-like niche and some work (somewhat) with Lady Heather if you're fond of that program. Various Z38xx devices are also candidates if you just want an inexpensive GPSDO in-a-box with 1 and 10M Hz (some with multiple outputs) if you are willing to deal with it's-not-quite-a-Z3801 behavior. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com mailto:time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com mailto:time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
Hi Chris, You could try VE2ZAZ's board. Pick your oscillator. Pick your receiver. I'm working on a rewrite of the code. Dave Platt stepped in to add an integrator to the control system. My latest (to be released) version looks like a significant improvement over my released version. I wouldn't put what we have into the commercial grade category, but it is very good for the hobbyist. The biggest thorn in my side has been the +/- 52ns jitter from the Motorola Oncore receiver. Dave and I have that licked about as well as one can on a 40MHz PIC. Using an Adafruit or something else with a smaller sawtooth would probably be a good idea. In fact, I'm using an Adafruit as my comparison receiver. One note: if you do get Bert's board, consider getting an 18F2320 chip for future releases. Dave and I are very near the program size limit on the 18F2220. If I decide to add code for a thermometer that will probably push it over. Bob - AE6RV From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com To: wb4...@amsat.org; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options??? What is needed now is a easy to assemble DIY GPSDO. In the past people lost interest in such becuase you could buy a TB for $90. I'd think today now that we have $10 microcontroller boards that have USB connections and are self-programming we could make a GPSDO controller with justone of those boards and two cheap chips (plus a GPS and XO.) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
wb4...@wb4gcs.org said: Very tempting. I just ordered 100 and 1000MHz VCXOs from Fox Electronics, with the intent of locking them to my GPSDO. Do you have part numbers? Just curious. wb4...@wb4gcs.org said: A DIY GPSDO would be WONDERFUL! Already have a couple of Jupiter GPS boards with 1pps output When I've thought about that, the hard part seems to be the D/A to drive the oscillator. There is a tangled tradeoff between resolution and range. You can get better resolution if you are willing to sacrifice range. That might be acceptable for DIY. It means you will have to fiddle/adjust occasionally as your crystal ages. The high parts of the D/A process become manual. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
Hi The Nortel / Trimbles are still cheaper (and probably better) than anything you are likely to build from scratch. Bob On Oct 12, 2013, at 11:54 AM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: What is needed now is a easy to assemble DIY GPSDO. In the past people lost interest in such becuase you could buy a TB for $90. I'd think today now that we have $10 microcontroller boards that have USB connections and are self-programming we could make a GPSDO controller with justone of those boards and two cheap chips (plus a GPS and XO.) On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Jim Sanford wb4...@wb4gcs.org wrote: I looked into the Jackson Labs products. Prices range from nearly $400 to almost $1300 for a dual-oven unit. Seemed reasonable, but higher than I'm willing to go at the moment. Maybe down the road Had a Z3801 which worked for 10 years, then failed - experimenter who bought it found the XO some 40 Hz off -- not correctible without invasive repair. I think he gave up and kept it for parts. I bought one ot the TB clones off the e-place, and am not yet sure whether it is good or not. It spends more time in RECOVERY mode than PHASE LOCKED, and the VCO voltage takes large jumps every time the number of satellites changes. Still scratching my head. Good luck! Jim wb4...@amsat.org On 10/12/2013 9:16 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: As per Bob Camps Wisdom below, most of the thunderbolts and Z38XX have been well picked over, the remaining ones are usually poor in some way. The main problem seems to be unstable oscillators, invasive repair is required to meet specifications. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@**febo.comtime-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, 12 October 2013 10:52 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options??? Hi All of these gizmos come on the market cheap when they are being scrapped out. Once that process is over for a generation of parts, the pieces climb. There are only a few working strategies: 1) Buy several when they first come out. 2) Pay the going rate many years later. 3) Switch to other gizmos with other cost / feature tradeoffs. In this case the likely tradeoff is to one of the Nortel / Trimble units or to one of the later HP boxes. The Nortel / Trimbles are in the sub $150 price range delivered. The later HP's are a bit more expensive. The Nortel / Trimble's come mainly from RDR Electronics on the e-place. The HP's come from the other side of the Pacific Ocean. One other option - before I'd pay $300 for a possibly broken TBolt (I've got a few of those), I'd do an email to find out what a brand new GPSDO (with warranty) from Jackson Labs would cost me. Bob On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Frank Hughes hp_cisco...@yahoo.com wrote: Does it seem like the Trimble Thunderbolt units are becoming scarce, and commanding prices accordingly? The inexpensive used Thunderbolts predate my interest in GPSDOs so I can't speak to relative prices but if your budget is ~ $300 they're still readily available. The various 2PPS Trimble GPSTM boxes/boards seem to occupy the $200 Thunderbot-like niche and some work (somewhat) with Lady Heather if you're fond of that program. Various Z38xx devices are also candidates if you just want an inexpensive GPSDO in-a-box with 1 and 10M Hz (some with multiple outputs) if you are willing to deal with it's-not-quite-a-Z3801 behavior. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
From my POV, the greatest expense for home-built remains the case and PSU, along with connectors and other ancillaries. The actual kits are usually pretty cheap. Bob From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options??? Hi The Nortel / Trimbles are still cheaper (and probably better) than anything you are likely to build from scratch. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
Hi The list has pretty well documented over the years that what they are mostly after is a plug and play / no solder involved gizmo. Bob On Oct 12, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: From my POV, the greatest expense for home-built remains the case and PSU, along with connectors and other ancillaries. The actual kits are usually pretty cheap. Bob From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options??? Hi The Nortel / Trimbles are still cheaper (and probably better) than anything you are likely to build from scratch. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
I just completed my second scratch GPSDO and would like to share a few of its details and ask a question or two at the end) I think the point of the below is that it did not cost very much, either time or money. It was very easily designed and built. I think the GPS-locked 10MHz output frequency is pretty good .but need to better understand how to use (Lady Heather?) to calculate ADEVs. I started with a couple of HP part-donor units that came my way from eBay. (TRULY part units -like they were missing entire pwbs and cables and such ...no way to easily rebuild ...but that is another story...) 1.I first built up my own discrete power supplies, needing +5VDC; +16VAC, and -18VDC using transformer wall warts (no switchers). I used the some of the large blue filter caps from the donor HP units to help DC filtering. 2.I took an older HP10811 oscillator and its controller-board from a donor unit and fed the 10MHz output to an oscillator card I had from a donor 3585A spec analyzer (A21). 3.I wrapped the 10811 oscillator in several layers of cork I had around the house; and attached a small digital thermometer sensor to the outside of the oscillator, prior to wrapping. It seems to maintain a constant 100F with little effort or regard to room temperature. 4.The standalone 3585A, A21 board takes the 10MHz from the 10811 oscillator and locks it to its own, discrete, on-board 90MHz oscillator on the A21 board. Then it nicely divides this 90MHz down several times (frequencies the 3585A spec analyzer originally needed). 5.I get outputs from the A21 board: 90MHz, 10MHz, and100KHz. (lots of ECL on this little A21 board) 6.I then added my own simple divide by 10 to take the 100 KHz to 10 KHz. 7.I used an (eBay) NAVMAN-Motorola GPS unit that has a 10 KHz output to feed an XO; this XO feeds a few RC discretes that develop the analog EFC back to the HP10811 oscillator. (Adjusting the 10811 oscillator to such an initial frequency that allows the lock EFC voltage to be positive is necessary. 8.Letting all this run overnight is showing the HP1011, 10MHz oscillator locked to GPS that has a TI of 100ns with all zeros to the right of the decimal point, . out to decimal places eight nine on my good 5370B TIC, .(decimal places eight and nine fluctuating around +- 20) Btw .I use my first GPSDO (similar, with NAVMAN/Motorola, but no fancy A21 board .etc) .as the 10 MHz external reference to the 5370B TIC. Question, please, how do I get this GPSDO (input) into Lady Heather? I do have an RS232 interface into my computer for the NAVMAN, and can monitor the GPS with a simple GPS monitor program.but this is not the locked, disciplined frequency from the 10MHz HP10811. With my setup .how does one compute the ADEVs? -Don Lewis Austin, TX (Hyde Park) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
Hi Lady Heather is a very Trimble specific program. It's not going to by a lot of help with a non-trimble based design. LH (as I've mentioned before) really does not calculate a proper ADEV. Not because it's broke, but because it can't without a very stable third oscillator to compare to. Bob On Oct 12, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Don Lewis dlewis6...@austin.rr.com wrote: I just completed my second scratch GPSDO and would like to share a few of its details and ask a question or two at the end) I think the point of the below is that it did not cost very much, either time or money. It was very easily designed and built. I think the GPS-locked 10MHz output frequency is pretty good .but need to better understand how to use (Lady Heather?) to calculate ADEVs. I started with a couple of HP part-donor units that came my way from eBay. (TRULY part units -like they were missing entire pwbs and cables and such ...no way to easily rebuild ...but that is another story...) 1.I first built up my own discrete power supplies, needing +5VDC; +16VAC, and -18VDC using transformer wall warts (no switchers). I used the some of the large blue filter caps from the donor HP units to help DC filtering. 2.I took an older HP10811 oscillator and its controller-board from a donor unit and fed the 10MHz output to an oscillator card I had from a donor 3585A spec analyzer (A21). 3.I wrapped the 10811 oscillator in several layers of cork I had around the house; and attached a small digital thermometer sensor to the outside of the oscillator, prior to wrapping. It seems to maintain a constant 100F with little effort or regard to room temperature. 4.The standalone 3585A, A21 board takes the 10MHz from the 10811 oscillator and locks it to its own, discrete, on-board 90MHz oscillator on the A21 board. Then it nicely divides this 90MHz down several times (frequencies the 3585A spec analyzer originally needed). 5.I get outputs from the A21 board: 90MHz, 10MHz, and100KHz. (lots of ECL on this little A21 board) 6.I then added my own simple divide by 10 to take the 100 KHz to 10 KHz. 7.I used an (eBay) NAVMAN-Motorola GPS unit that has a 10 KHz output to feed an XO; this XO feeds a few RC discretes that develop the analog EFC back to the HP10811 oscillator. (Adjusting the 10811 oscillator to such an initial frequency that allows the lock EFC voltage to be positive is necessary. 8.Letting all this run overnight is showing the HP1011, 10MHz oscillator locked to GPS that has a TI of 100ns with all zeros to the right of the decimal point, . out to decimal places eight nine on my good 5370B TIC, .(decimal places eight and nine fluctuating around +- 20) Btw .I use my first GPSDO (similar, with NAVMAN/Motorola, but no fancy A21 board .etc) .as the 10 MHz external reference to the 5370B TIC. Question, please, how do I get this GPSDO (input) into Lady Heather? I do have an RS232 interface into my computer for the NAVMAN, and can monitor the GPS with a simple GPS monitor program.but this is not the locked, disciplined frequency from the 10MHz HP10811. With my setup .how does one compute the ADEVs? -Don Lewis Austin, TX (Hyde Park) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
Hi Don, Seems the easiest would be to capture your 5370B output to a file and use Ulrich's plotter to calculate ADEV. With ~20ps noise floor on the 5370B you can assume a 1s indication of no better than 2E-011. The 10811A will be better than that assuming you did your efc low pass filter properly. Also, I would disable GPS disciplining on one of the two units to prevent artificially good performance results due to both oscillators tracking similar gps errors. Plotter lets you remove the resulting drift later on. The 5370B may also give better error averaging if the two clocks drift slight versus each other. Bye, Said On Oct 12, 2013, at 12:22, Don Lewis dlewis6...@austin.rr.com wrote: I just completed my second scratch GPSDO and would like to share a few of its details and ask a question or two at the end) I think the point of the below is that it did not cost very much, either time or money. It was very easily designed and built. I think the GPS-locked 10MHz output frequency is pretty good .but need to better understand how to use (Lady Heather?) to calculate ADEVs. I started with a couple of HP part-donor units that came my way from eBay. (TRULY part units -like they were missing entire pwbs and cables and such ...no way to easily rebuild ...but that is another story...) 1.I first built up my own discrete power supplies, needing +5VDC; +16VAC, and -18VDC using transformer wall warts (no switchers). I used the some of the large blue filter caps from the donor HP units to help DC filtering. 2.I took an older HP10811 oscillator and its controller-board from a donor unit and fed the 10MHz output to an oscillator card I had from a donor 3585A spec analyzer (A21). 3.I wrapped the 10811 oscillator in several layers of cork I had around the house; and attached a small digital thermometer sensor to the outside of the oscillator, prior to wrapping. It seems to maintain a constant 100F with little effort or regard to room temperature. 4.The standalone 3585A, A21 board takes the 10MHz from the 10811 oscillator and locks it to its own, discrete, on-board 90MHz oscillator on the A21 board. Then it nicely divides this 90MHz down several times (frequencies the 3585A spec analyzer originally needed). 5.I get outputs from the A21 board: 90MHz, 10MHz, and100KHz. (lots of ECL on this little A21 board) 6.I then added my own simple divide by 10 to take the 100 KHz to 10 KHz. 7.I used an (eBay) NAVMAN-Motorola GPS unit that has a 10 KHz output to feed an XO; this XO feeds a few RC discretes that develop the analog EFC back to the HP10811 oscillator. (Adjusting the 10811 oscillator to such an initial frequency that allows the lock EFC voltage to be positive is necessary. 8.Letting all this run overnight is showing the HP1011, 10MHz oscillator locked to GPS that has a TI of 100ns with all zeros to the right of the decimal point, . out to decimal places eight nine on my good 5370B TIC, .(decimal places eight and nine fluctuating around +- 20) Btw .I use my first GPSDO (similar, with NAVMAN/Motorola, but no fancy A21 board .etc) .as the 10 MHz external reference to the 5370B TIC. Question, please, how do I get this GPSDO (input) into Lady Heather? I do have an RS232 interface into my computer for the NAVMAN, and can monitor the GPS with a simple GPS monitor program.but this is not the locked, disciplined frequency from the 10MHz HP10811. With my setup .how does one compute the ADEVs? -Don Lewis Austin, TX (Hyde Park) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
Hi, I recently had some minor trouble w/ my Trimble Thunderbolt, (turned out to be a loose DB-9). The event motivated me to look for a spare, in the case where something actually fatal happens to the TB in the future. The availability of a 10mhz signal for the HP and Agilent test equipment is great. Also, our home NTP server PPS input is very nice (when I don't knock the connector off). Does it seem like the Trimble Thunderbolt units are becoming scarce, and commanding prices accordingly? Should I just pay the ransom and be as happy as I can about it? Or is there any other HW that I should start looking for w/ similar inputs and outputs for the antenna, serial PPS, BNC 10Mhz? I don't need .999 precision, just a better 10Mhz signal than the HP Agilent OCXO's produce, and a stable PPS to feed the NTP server with. Thanks, Frank KJ4OLL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble TB replacement options???
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Frank Hughes hp_cisco...@yahoo.com wrote: Does it seem like the Trimble Thunderbolt units are becoming scarce, and commanding prices accordingly? The inexpensive used Thunderbolts predate my interest in GPSDOs so I can't speak to relative prices but if your budget is ~ $300 they're still readily available. The various 2PPS Trimble GPSTM boxes/boards seem to occupy the $200 Thunderbot-like niche and some work (somewhat) with Lady Heather if you're fond of that program. Various Z38xx devices are also candidates if you just want an inexpensive GPSDO in-a-box with 1 and 10M Hz (some with multiple outputs) if you are willing to deal with it's-not-quite-a-Z3801 behavior. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
