Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Luc Gaudin]

Hi,

The affected part number are :
38223-61Thunderbolt v2.10
38223-61Thunderbolt v2.12
39448-61Thunderbolt v2.22
48050-61Thunderbolt II  v3.00

Regards,

Luc 

-Message d'origine-
De : time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] De la part de Nigel Vander 
Houwen
Envoyé : lundi 15 février 2016 17:58
À : Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Objet : Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

Luc,

Do you have a reference for this?

Nigel

> On Feb 15, 2016, at 01:22, Luc Gaudin <lgau...@naelcom.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> The issue was known on the Thunderbold for the older firmware version up to 
> firmware v3.00.
> The product will not report the correct extended GPS week number after the 
> Feb,13th 2016.
> After the rollover to week #860, the thunderbolt will not make position for 2 
> hours, because the Ephemeris data on the GPS receiver being consider 
> incorrect.
> The module will work fine after this 2 hours.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Luc
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Bob Camp]

Hi


…. also….

If it is a rollover bug, does it come back when the unit is power cycled or is 
there some magic in a
eprom that locks it to the correct era? (all of mine seem to be past  FW 3.00)

Bob

> On Feb 15, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Nigel Vander Houwen 
>  wrote:
> 
> Luc,
> 
> Do you have a reference for this?
> 
> Nigel
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2016, at 01:22, Luc Gaudin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, 
>> 
>> The issue was known on the Thunderbold for the older firmware version up to 
>> firmware v3.00.
>> The product will not report the correct extended GPS week number after the 
>> Feb,13th 2016.
>> After the rollover to week #860, the thunderbolt will not make position for 
>> 2 hours, because the Ephemeris data on the GPS receiver being consider 
>> incorrect.
>> The module will work fine after this 2 hours.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Luc
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Nigel Vander Houwen]

Luc,

Do you have a reference for this?

Nigel

> On Feb 15, 2016, at 01:22, Luc Gaudin  wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> The issue was known on the Thunderbold for the older firmware version up to 
> firmware v3.00.
> The product will not report the correct extended GPS week number after the 
> Feb,13th 2016.
> After the rollover to week #860, the thunderbolt will not make position for 2 
> hours, because the Ephemeris data on the GPS receiver being consider 
> incorrect.
> The module will work fine after this 2 hours.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Luc
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Achim Vollhardt]

Dear all,

I can confirm total loss of GPS constellation here on Feb 14th,

going from 7 to 4 sats on 00:14:45 UTC
going to nil on 00:16:40 UTC

intermittent single sat tracking in between

back to 7 sats shortly after 02:00:00 UTC


I typically receive here between 5-8 sats with my Thunderbolt with fulll
horizon view of antenna.

So this seems to be a global issue.

Achim, DH2VA
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Achim Vollhardt]

I should add that I saw a similar disturbance of the force on my
Shera-type GPSDO. Cannot remember what GPS rx is installed but likely
some Jupiter-T model.

Cheers,
Achim

On 15.02.2016 08:08, Achim Vollhardt wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I can confirm total loss of GPS constellation here on Feb 14th,
> 
> going from 7 to 4 sats on 00:14:45 UTC
> going to nil on 00:16:40 UTC
> 
> intermittent single sat tracking in between
> 
> back to 7 sats shortly after 02:00:00 UTC
> 
> 
> I typically receive here between 5-8 sats with my Thunderbolt with fulll
> horizon view of antenna.
> 
> So this seems to be a global issue.
> 
> Achim, DH2VA
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Luc Gaudin]

Hello, 

The issue was known on the Thunderbold for the older firmware version up to 
firmware v3.00.
The product will not report the correct extended GPS week number after the 
Feb,13th 2016.
After the rollover to week #860, the thunderbolt will not make position for 2 
hours, because the Ephemeris data on the GPS receiver being consider incorrect.
The module will work fine after this 2 hours.
 
Regards,

Luc

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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Hal Murray]

hol...@hotmail.com said:
> I find it hard to believe that only time-nuts GPSDOs saw any problems.

Has anybody seen troubles on other than TBolts?

> Will be interesting to see...

Yup.



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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Vlad]

I was looking to the frequency periods for 110V 60Hz main for that time:

http://www.patoka.org/OCXO/main.png
http://www.patoka.org/OCXO/main2.png

Could be coincidence. But its noticeable events at Feb 00:15 UTC and Feb 
14 01:30 UTC. The MCU counter referenced by regular OCXO (its not 
disciplined by GPS or anything).


On 2016-02-13 22:25, Mark Sims wrote:

Yes,  all satellites dropped out from 00:16:51 to 01:54:02 UTC in
Dallas, Texas.   Was tracking 5 sats then, poof, none.Global
warming?  Gravity waves?  More bogus GPS control segment uploads?
Somebody gots some 'splain to do...


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V.P.
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[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Mark Sims]

I filed an outage report with NAVCEN via their web site and got an email back 
asking for more info (which I supplied).  I got the impression that they were 
not aware of what was going on.   Googling around also does not show any 
official reports of problems.  Rather surprising considering the various system 
that seemed to be affected and the global reach of the problem.  I find it hard 
to believe that only time-nuts GPSDOs saw any problems.   Will be interesting 
to see...

  
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[James Flynn]

Rob S.  writes:

>
> Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at
> roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no
> Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same.. 
> 

At about 0045 Z 14FEB16 my Navman TU60 (surplus), which I run at home in 
Chatsworth (near LA) California, started throwing missing 1S pulse alarms 
indicating it was was unable to reach timing solution in position hold 
mode. Not on a par with other set-ups mentioned, but correlates with what 
was observed.

This lasted on and off through the local night.  I will have to look at 
raw data to see total time span.






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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Hal Murray]

manu...@artekmanuals.com said:
> A novice to the GPS community why are (apparently)only the Trimble units
> affected? 

It's not hard to imagine obscure firmware bugs/features that only show up in 
some devices.  Making a GPSDO adds another opportunity for quirks on the 
handoff between the GPS firmware and the GPSDO firmware.

I don't see anything interesting at that time on Garmin GPS-18/18x or KS-24361

It will be interesting to see what's behind this.


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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error plot

[Artek Manuals]

Ben et all


Business as usual here in Florida at 18:32 on Z3801A

Dave
NR1DX


On 2/14/2016 1:33 PM, Ben Hall wrote:

Interesting.  My Z3801A got really angry a bit ago but never lost
satellites:



(plus attached if this list doesn't block attachments)

thanks,
ben



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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error plot

[Ben Hall]

On 2/14/2016 11:57 AM, Mark Sims wrote:

Attached is a Lady Heather plot of the "event".   Note that there
were a couple of brief places during the outage where one satellite
was tracked.


Interesting.  My Z3801A got really angry a bit ago but never lost 
satellites:




(plus attached if this list doesn't block attachments)

thanks,
ben




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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Hans Holzach]

i am located in switzerland.

i checked tonight's log of my lucent ks-24361. it had perfect satellite 
reception during the whole night.


but: i stopped logging a TI-measurement this morning because it was 
messed up. the reference is a Miller Simple GPSDO, the DUT a decently 
stable rubidium oscillator. the plot clearly shows that the gpsdo went 
into holdover twice (strong frequency drift), starting at about 1 UTC 
(no time stamps unfortunately). it locked the second time about 85 
minutes later and is fine since then.


hans
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Magnus Danielson]

OK. I was starting to suspect that.

Already made a call. They keep producing work for us.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 02/14/2016 01:02 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

This NANU just arrived:
From:  https://celestrak.com/GPS/NANU/2016/nanu.2016012.txt


NOTICE ADVISORY TO NAVSTAR USERS (NANU) 2016012 NANU TYPE: GENERAL
*** GENERAL MESSAGE TO ALL GPS USERS ***
Users may be experiencing a potential time transfer anomaly.  If you are 
experiencing any issue please contact NAVCEN at 703-313-5900, 
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov
*** GENERAL MESSAGE TO ALL GPS USERS ***

POC: CIVILIAN - NAVCEN AT 703-313-5900, HTTP://WWW.NAVCEN.USCG.GOV
MILITARY - GPS OPERATIONS CENTER at HTTPS://GPS.AFSPC.AF.MIL/GPSOC, DSN 
560-2541,
COMM 719-567-2541, gpsoperationscen...@us.af.mil, HTTPS://GPS.AFSPC.AF.MIL
MILITARY ALTERNATE - JOINT SPACE OPERATIONS CENTER, DSN276-3514,
COMM 805-606-3514, jspoccombat...@vandenberg.af.mil


See also: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?Do=constellationstatus

/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Artek Manuals]

Interesting my Z3801A here in Florida reports no hold over errors for 
the last 72 hours


A novice to the GPS community why are (apparently)only the Trimble units 
affected?


Dave
NR1DX


On 2/14/2016 7:02 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

This NANU just arrived:
From:  https://celestrak.com/GPS/NANU/2016/nanu.2016012.txt


NOTICE ADVISORY TO NAVSTAR USERS (NANU) 2016012 NANU TYPE: GENERAL
*** GENERAL MESSAGE TO ALL GPS USERS ***
Users may be experiencing a potential time transfer anomaly.  If you are 
experiencing any issue please contact NAVCEN at 703-313-5900, 
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov
*** GENERAL MESSAGE TO ALL GPS USERS ***

POC: CIVILIAN - NAVCEN AT 703-313-5900, HTTP://WWW.NAVCEN.USCG.GOV
MILITARY - GPS OPERATIONS CENTER at HTTPS://GPS.AFSPC.AF.MIL/GPSOC, DSN 
560-2541,
COMM 719-567-2541, gpsoperationscen...@us.af.mil, HTTPS://GPS.AFSPC.AF.MIL
MILITARY ALTERNATE - JOINT SPACE OPERATIONS CENTER, DSN276-3514,
COMM 805-606-3514, jspoccombat...@vandenberg.af.mil


See also: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?Do=constellationstatus

/tvb
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[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error plot

[Mark Sims]

Attached is a Lady Heather plot of the "event".   Note that there were a couple 
of brief places during the outage where one satellite was tracked.

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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Scott Newell]

At 12:59 AM 2/14/2016, Hal Murray wrote:


newell+timen...@n5tnl.com said:
> My tbolt shows a massive loss of sats starting around 00:15 through 01:56.

Where are you located?


Arkansas.



I have crappy antennas so holdover is common.  It's been good weather


Outdoor antenna, but so-so placement. I don't think I've seen 
holdover in a year.


No LH log (oops!), but I did save a screenshot. (Attached).


--
newell  N5TNL
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[paul swed]

I will say its odd that lately there have been 2 screw ups in less then a
month. Really odd. I was thinking that perhaps the issue had been a pocket
jammer. Those will have an affect on a area. In the states truck drivers
buy and use them.
But it looks like the birds were messed up.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Hans Holzach 
wrote:

> i am located in switzerland.
>
> i checked tonight's log of my lucent ks-24361. it had perfect satellite
> reception during the whole night.
>
> but: i stopped logging a TI-measurement this morning because it was messed
> up. the reference is a Miller Simple GPSDO, the DUT a decently stable
> rubidium oscillator. the plot clearly shows that the gpsdo went into
> holdover twice (strong frequency drift), starting at about 1 UTC (no time
> stamps unfortunately). it locked the second time about 85 minutes later and
> is fine since then.
>
> hans
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Dan Rae]

I saved my LH screen just as the period of seeing no satellites ended 
with one coming into view at the bottom, and again maybe an hour and a 
half later.  In between LH reported "No Almanac" at some point.


 Whatever was being done must have been fairly major!

Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Shane Morris]

Independent reports on GPS errors on the app_rpt mailing list, around the
time frame you're mentioning in California. Those guys use GPS to train
voting radio transmitters.

They asked me to post on their behalf, as I am subscribed to both lists.
On 14 Feb 2016 3:02 pm, "Mark Sims"  wrote:

> Yes,  all satellites dropped out from 00:16:51 to 01:54:02 UTC in Dallas,
> Texas.   Was tracking 5 sats then, poof, none.Global warming?  Gravity
> waves?  More bogus GPS control segment uploads?  Somebody gots some 'splain
> to do...
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Hal Murray]

newell+timen...@n5tnl.com said:
> My tbolt shows a massive loss of sats starting around 00:15 through 01:56. 

Where are you located?

I'm in Silicon Valley.

Both of my TBolts went into holdover about 0:15 UTC and stayed there until 
2:15.  One recovered enough to reset the counter about half way through.

I have crappy antennas so holdover is common.  It's been good weather 
recently so long outages are a bit strange.  (I think wet weather reduces the 
signal getting through my roof but I don't have good data to back that up.)

Both of my TBolts had huge PPS Offset for several minutes about 2:00 UTC.  
One was 822.50, the other was 696.50 for 9 samples at 64 second 
spacing.

Both units reported the a0 and a1 parameters changing, one at 2:01, the other 
at 3:41
  a0=0, a1=1.77636e-15
The 0 is strange, but I've seen it before.


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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Tom Van Baak]

This NANU just arrived:
From:  https://celestrak.com/GPS/NANU/2016/nanu.2016012.txt


NOTICE ADVISORY TO NAVSTAR USERS (NANU) 2016012 NANU TYPE: GENERAL
*** GENERAL MESSAGE TO ALL GPS USERS ***
Users may be experiencing a potential time transfer anomaly.  If you are 
experiencing any issue please contact NAVCEN at 703-313-5900, 
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov
*** GENERAL MESSAGE TO ALL GPS USERS ***

   POC: CIVILIAN - NAVCEN AT 703-313-5900, HTTP://WWW.NAVCEN.USCG.GOV
   MILITARY - GPS OPERATIONS CENTER at HTTPS://GPS.AFSPC.AF.MIL/GPSOC, DSN 
560-2541,
   COMM 719-567-2541, gpsoperationscen...@us.af.mil, HTTPS://GPS.AFSPC.AF.MIL 
   MILITARY ALTERNATE - JOINT SPACE OPERATIONS CENTER, DSN276-3514, 
   COMM 805-606-3514, jspoccombat...@vandenberg.af.mil


See also: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?Do=constellationstatus

/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[ws at Yahoo via time-nuts]

 
Same here for me in central California near the coast(SLO county).
My Tbolt lost all satellites all at the same time, for 100 min @ ~5:30 PM
PST.
Then just as suddenly all came back on line, with no input from me.
A truly unique experience for this Tbolt which runs pretty much
continuously.
LH screen shot attached.  
 
ws
 
*
 
Hello Group, 
 
A friend about 2Km up the road from me and I both run the Trimble
Thunderbolt GPSDO. For a few years now they have both worked flawlessly.
Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at
roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no
Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same.. 
 
I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them today ? 
 
Cheers, 
 
Rob. 
 
 

 

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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Bob Camp]

Hi

The first question would be: where on earth are you? Next up would be 
are there any test ranges nearby?

Bob

> On Feb 13, 2016, at 8:34 PM, Rob S.  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Group, 
> 
> A friend about 2Km up the road from me and I both run the Trimble
> Thunderbolt GPSDO. For a few years now they have both worked flawlessly.
> Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at
> roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no
> Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same.. 
> 
> I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them today ? 
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Rob. 
> 
> 
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[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Rob S.]

 

Hello Group, 

A friend about 2Km up the road from me and I both run the Trimble
Thunderbolt GPSDO. For a few years now they have both worked flawlessly.
Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at
roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no
Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same.. 

I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them today ? 

Cheers, 

Rob. 

 
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Scott Newell]

At 07:34 PM 2/13/2016, Rob S. wrote:

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Hello Group,

A friend about 2Km up the road from me and I both run the Trimble
Thunderbolt GPSDO. For a few years now they have both worked flawlessly.
Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at
roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no
Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same..

I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them today ?


My tbolt shows a massive loss of sats starting around 00:15 through 01:56.

--
newell  N5TNL

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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Nigel Vander Houwen]

Not sure if it’s locale based, but for reference, my unit seems to be operating 
normally here in Washington state, USA.

Nigel

> On Feb 13, 2016, at 17:34, Rob S.  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Group, 
> 
> A friend about 2Km up the road from me and I both run the Trimble
> Thunderbolt GPSDO. For a few years now they have both worked flawlessly.
> Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at
> roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no
> Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same.. 
> 
> I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them today ? 
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Rob. 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Rob Streater]

 

Hello again Group, 

Just an update, I let the Trimble sit for a for an hour or so and it's
status didn't change so I initiated a "Survey" and it is now back to
normal "seeing" satellites and has switched back into over detect mode. 

I don't log the Trimble so I'm not sure what happened, possibly some
else has seen this before ? 

Cheers Everyone, 

Rob. 

On 2016-02-14 12:34, Rob S. wrote: 

> Hello Group, 
> 
> A friend about 2Km up the road from me and I both run the Trimble
> Thunderbolt GPSDO. For a few years now they have both worked flawlessly.
> Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at
> roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no
> Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same.. 
> 
> I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them today ? 
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Rob. 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
> [1]
> and follow the instructions there.

 

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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Rob Streater]

 

Hi Bob, 

about 100 Km South East of Melbourne AU in the sticks and no, no test
ranges nearby... 

Rob. 

On 2016-02-14 14:45, Bob Camp wrote: 

> Hi
> 
> The first question would be: where on earth are you? Next up would be 
> are there any test ranges nearby?
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2016, at 8:34 PM, Rob S.  wrote: Hello 
>> Group, A friend about 2Km up the road from me and I both run the Trimble 
>> Thunderbolt GPSDO. For a few years now they have both worked flawlessly. 
>> Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at 
>> roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no 
>> Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same.. I am 
>> wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them today ? Cheers, Rob. 
>> ___ time-nuts mailing list -- 
>> time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts [1] and follow the 
>> instructions there.

 

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[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error

[Mark Sims]

Yes,  all satellites dropped out from 00:16:51 to 01:54:02 UTC in Dallas, 
Texas.   Was tracking 5 sats then, poof, none.Global warming?  Gravity 
waves?  More bogus GPS control segment uploads?  Somebody gots some 'splain to 
do...

  
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