Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch

[Bill Woodcock]

>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Jim Palfreyman 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Well I think there's a mistake or two here...
 
 https://www.inverse.com/article/20497-john-patterson-atomic-ce

But, MARS!

-Bill






signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch

[Ronald Held]

Anyne want to list all of the errors?  I suppose that article is for
an audience with no understanding of Physics?
 Ronald
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch

[Don Latham]

I’m really glad that the article was edited for clarity. 
Don

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:12 AM, Clint Jay  wrote:
> 
> I am peeking in as a mere amateur and that article hurts my brain, I cannot
> imagine how hard some folk here must be battering their heads against their
> desks.
> 
> Oh, and it's not the first either, this one was a year prior...
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/hoptroff_shows_first_atomic_watch_movement/
> 
> http://www.hoptroff.com/collections/atomic-timepieces
> 
> On 18 October 2016 at 12:00, Tim Shoppa  wrote:
> 
>> If I saw a chess playing machine that had a bunch of gears and levers, AND
>> A LITTLE HUMAN INSIDE, and the proprietor was bragging about how well the
>> human had been trained relative to the military, I would spend all my time
>> wondering how much of the work the human was doing. Even if the combination
>> played simply awful chess.
>> 
>> Tim N3QE
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Jim Palfreyman 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well I think there's a mistake or two here...
>>> 
>>> https://www.inverse.com/article/20497-john-patterson-atomic-ce
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Clint.
> 
> *No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number
> of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.*
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> 

Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things.
Virgil
---
"Noli sinere nothos te opprimere"

Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road
Huson, MT, 59846
mailing address:  POBox 404
Frenchtown MT 59834-0404

VOX 406-626-4304
CEL 406-241-5093
Skype: buffler2
www.lightningforensics.com 
www.sixmilesystems.com 
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch

[Clint Jay]

I am peeking in as a mere amateur and that article hurts my brain, I cannot
imagine how hard some folk here must be battering their heads against their
desks.

Oh, and it's not the first either, this one was a year prior...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/hoptroff_shows_first_atomic_watch_movement/

http://www.hoptroff.com/collections/atomic-timepieces

On 18 October 2016 at 12:00, Tim Shoppa  wrote:

> If I saw a chess playing machine that had a bunch of gears and levers, AND
> A LITTLE HUMAN INSIDE, and the proprietor was bragging about how well the
> human had been trained relative to the military, I would spend all my time
> wondering how much of the work the human was doing. Even if the combination
> played simply awful chess.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Jim Palfreyman 
> wrote:
>
> > Well I think there's a mistake or two here...
> >
> > https://www.inverse.com/article/20497-john-patterson-atomic-ce
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>



-- 
Clint.

*No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number
of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.*
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch

[Tim Shoppa]

If I saw a chess playing machine that had a bunch of gears and levers, AND
A LITTLE HUMAN INSIDE, and the proprietor was bragging about how well the
human had been trained relative to the military, I would spend all my time
wondering how much of the work the human was doing. Even if the combination
played simply awful chess.

Tim N3QE

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Jim Palfreyman  wrote:

> Well I think there's a mistake or two here...
>
> https://www.inverse.com/article/20497-john-patterson-atomic-ce
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch

[John Allen]

It hurts to read this.   John K1AE

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jim Palfreyman
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 9:46 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch

Well I think there's a mistake or two here...

https://www.inverse.com/article/20497-john-patterson-atomic-ce

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

"Whereas other clocks fall victim to relativistic effects at high speeds, 
cesium clocks do not. The frequency remains the same, and so the time remains 
accurate.”

Well, to the wearer, it probably does. :)

It’s ironic they said that given that they flew cesium clocks in the 
Hafele–Keating experiment to demonstrate exactly those relativistic effects.

> On Oct 17, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Jim Palfreyman  wrote:
> 
> Well I think there's a mistake or two here...
> 
> https://www.inverse.com/article/20497-john-patterson-atomic-ce
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Sarah White]

On 5/1/2013 8:43 AM, Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote:
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/hoptroff_shows_first_atomic_watch_movement/
 

Stephen, fellow time nuts,

[DISCLAIMER] I should really know better than to attempt internet
discussions or comments first thing after waking up. Didn't stop me
today though (oops)

So...

Did I just make a fool of myself?

Was I mistaken?

I tweeted the author of this article, trying to point out that (as I
understand) radioactive decay is not relevant in any way for cesium
frequency standard/reference thingies:

https://twitter.com/kuzetsa/status/329618223916011520

If someone more authoritative and/or experienced (or at least more
awake) wanted, please let me know if I was confused and such

--Sarah
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[David McGaw]

You are correct - radioactive decay has nothing to do with atomic clocks.

David


On 5/1/13 11:40 AM, Sarah White wrote:

On 5/1/2013 8:43 AM, Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/hoptroff_shows_first_atomic_watch_movement/


Stephen, fellow time nuts,

[DISCLAIMER] I should really know better than to attempt internet
discussions or comments first thing after waking up. Didn't stop me
today though (oops)

So...

Did I just make a fool of myself?

Was I mistaken?

I tweeted the author of this article, trying to point out that (as I
understand) radioactive decay is not relevant in any way for cesium
frequency standard/reference thingies:

https://twitter.com/kuzetsa/status/329618223916011520

If someone more authoritative and/or experienced (or at least more
awake) wanted, please let me know if I was confused and such

--Sarah
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Sarah White]

On 5/1/2013 11:40 AM, Sarah White wrote:
 On 5/1/2013 8:43 AM, Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote:
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/hoptroff_shows_first_atomic_watch_movement/

 
 Stephen, fellow time nuts,
 
 [DISCLAIMER] I should really know better than to attempt internet
 discussions or comments first thing after waking up. Didn't stop me
 today though (oops)
 
 So...
 
 Did I just make a fool of myself?
 
 Was I mistaken?
 
 I tweeted the author of this article, trying to point out that (as I
 understand) radioactive decay is not relevant in any way for cesium
 frequency standard/reference thingies:
 
 https://twitter.com/kuzetsa/status/329618223916011520
 
 If someone more authoritative and/or experienced (or at least more
 awake) wanted, please let me know if I was confused and such
 
 --Sarah
 

Oh... apparently the article has since been altered in a subtle way. The
current wording no longer has any mention of radioactive decay

As you were / carry on :)

--Sarah

P.S. Guess I'll delete my tweet. (unintended rhyme)
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Michael Tharp]

On 5/1/2013 11:40, Sarah White wrote:

I tweeted the author of this article, trying to point out that (as I
understand) radioactive decay is not relevant in any way for cesium
frequency standard/reference thingies:

https://twitter.com/kuzetsa/status/329618223916011520

If someone more authoritative and/or experienced (or at least more
awake) wanted, please let me know if I was confused and such


Symmetricom doesn't go out of their way to say how the damn thing 
actually works, but it sure isn't radioactive decay. Decay is entirely 
unpredictable due to the nature of quantum mechanics and can only be 
described in statistical terms (averages and probabilities). But it's a 
very common misconception that I, too, once held. To most people, 
atomic means radioactive, fissioning, or fusioning.


This seems to be the technology being used, it looks similar in a broad 
sense to a Rb oscillator but without the microwave excitation:


http://tf.nist.gov/ofm/smallclock/CPT_clocks.html

CSAC has definitely been discussed here before but the threads my 
searches are turning up do not seem to investigate its theory of operation.


As for the article, The Register is not an outlet known for precise 
reporting. Take it as a journalistic liberty.


NB: Your tweet is not visible to me, so it's somewhat difficult to 
fact-check :-)


-- m. tharp
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[mike cook]

You are not wrong. I noticed the error myself. There no radioactive decay 
involved. These devices were discussed in detail a while back here.
Lots of drooling and wringing of empty wallets.




Le 1 mai 2013 à 17:40, Sarah White a écrit :

 On 5/1/2013 8:43 AM, Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote:
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/hoptroff_shows_first_atomic_watch_movement/
 
 
 Stephen, fellow time nuts,
 
 [DISCLAIMER] I should really know better than to attempt internet
 discussions or comments first thing after waking up. Didn't stop me
 today though (oops)
 
 So...
 
 Did I just make a fool of myself?
 
 Was I mistaken?
 
 I tweeted the author of this article, trying to point out that (as I
 understand) radioactive decay is not relevant in any way for cesium
 frequency standard/reference thingies:
 
 https://twitter.com/kuzetsa/status/329618223916011520
 
 If someone more authoritative and/or experienced (or at least more
 awake) wanted, please let me know if I was confused and such
 
 --Sarah
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message 51815556.4050...@partiallystapled.com, Michael Tharp writes:
On 5/1/2013 11:40, Sarah White wrote:

Symmetricom doesn't go out of their way to say how the damn thing 
actually works, [...]

NIST has documented that in a LOT of detail, they're the ones who
came up with it.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Attila Kinali]

On Wed, 01 May 2013 13:48:06 -0400
Michael Tharp g...@partiallystapled.com wrote:

 On 5/1/2013 11:40, Sarah White wrote:
  I tweeted the author of this article, trying to point out that (as I
  understand) radioactive decay is not relevant in any way for cesium
  frequency standard/reference thingies:
 
  https://twitter.com/kuzetsa/status/329618223916011520
 
  If someone more authoritative and/or experienced (or at least more
  awake) wanted, please let me know if I was confused and such

Yes, the article is wrong in nearly everything about the description
how the CSAC works. No microwaves are involved, the laser is not for
heating but for probing etc pp..

 
 Symmetricom doesn't go out of their way to say how the damn thing 
 actually works, 

Actually, there is quite a bit about how that damn thing works.
Beside from the literature about coherent population trapping
you can find from symmetricom directly the following papers:
(in chronological order)

[1] The chip-scale atomic clock - Coherent population trapping vs.
conventional interrogation, by Lutwack, Emmons, Riley, Garvey, 2002
http://dodreports.com/pdf/ada484363.pdf

[2] The MAC ­ A Miniature Atomic Clock by Lutwak, Vlitas, Varghese,
Mescher, Serkland and Peake, 2005

[3] The Miniature Atomic Clock ­ Pre-Production Results, by Lutwak
Rashed, Varghese, Tepolt, Leblanc, Mescher, Serkland and Peake, 2007

[4] The Chip-Scale Atomic Clock - Recent Developments, by Lutwak, 2009

[5] The SA.45S Chip-Scale Atomic Clock, by Lutwak, 2011
http://scpnt.stanford.edu/pnt/PNT11/2011_presentation_files/18_Lutwak-PNT2011.pdf

I'm quite sure, there is more than just these papers. But these
are the ones i've found and read. Especially [5] is quite nice as it
contains a lot of performance data.

If you are interested, i can also dig out some papers on coherent
population trapping that explain the basic idea and how it works
in understandable terms.

Attila Kinali

-- 
The people on 4chan are like brilliant psychologists
who also happen to be insane and gross.
-- unknown
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Sarah White]

On 5/1/2013 1:48 PM, Michael Tharp wrote:

((...snip...))

 As for the article, The Register is not an outlet known for precise
 reporting. Take it as a journalistic liberty.
 
 NB: Your tweet is not visible to me, so it's somewhat difficult to
 fact-check :-)
 
 -- m. tharp

I deleted the tweet once I realized the article had been fixed:

http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2013-May/076127.html

you meant me, right?

what does NB mean?

--Sarah

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Said Jackson]

That is incorrect. There is a good presentation online with lots of technical 
details. More details than you would find from other vendors.

Search for:

   Lutwak CSAC Stanford

There are no HAZMAT or ITAR restrictions on the CSAC contrary to what this 
mis-informed author claimed.

Bye,
Said

Sent From iPhone

On May 1, 2013, at 10:48, Michael Tharp g...@partiallystapled.com wrote:

 On 5/1/2013 11:40, Sarah White wrote:
 I tweeted the author of this article, trying to point out that (as I
 understand) radioactive decay is not relevant in any way for cesium
 frequency standard/reference thingies:
 
 https://twitter.com/kuzetsa/status/329618223916011520
 
 If someone more authoritative and/or experienced (or at least more
 awake) wanted, please let me know if I was confused and such
 
 Symmetricom doesn't go out of their way to say how the damn thing actually 
 works, but it sure isn't radioactive decay. Decay is entirely unpredictable 
 due to the nature of quantum mechanics and can only be described in 
 statistical terms (averages and probabilities). But it's a very common 
 misconception that I, too, once held. To most people, atomic means 
 radioactive, fissioning, or fusioning.
 
 This seems to be the technology being used, it looks similar in a broad sense 
 to a Rb oscillator but without the microwave excitation:
 
 http://tf.nist.gov/ofm/smallclock/CPT_clocks.html
 
 CSAC has definitely been discussed here before but the threads my searches 
 are turning up do not seem to investigate its theory of operation.
 
 As for the article, The Register is not an outlet known for precise 
 reporting. Take it as a journalistic liberty.
 
 NB: Your tweet is not visible to me, so it's somewhat difficult to fact-check 
 :-)
 
 -- m. tharp
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Magnus Danielson]

On 05/01/2013 10:02 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:

In message51815556.4050...@partiallystapled.com, Michael Tharp writes:

On 5/1/2013 11:40, Sarah White wrote:



Symmetricom doesn't go out of their way to say how the damn thing
actually works, [...]


NIST has documented that in a LOT of detail, they're the ones who
came up with it.



Also, they have continued the research. There is also articles from the 
dev. team which gives good insight. A bit of searching I found these to 
get you started:


Slides:
http://scpnt.stanford.edu/pnt/PNT11/2011_presentation_files/18_Lutwak-PNT2011.pdf

Paper:
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA485490

Cheers,
Magnus
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Sarah White]

On 5/1/2013 4:02 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
 In message 51815556.4050...@partiallystapled.com, Michael Tharp writes:
 On 5/1/2013 11:40, Sarah White wrote:
 
 Symmetricom doesn't go out of their way to say how the damn thing 
 actually works, [...]
 
 NIST has documented that in a LOT of detail, they're the ones who
 came up with it.
 

PHK,

Sorry to chew you out on this but like...

This poorly formatted reply ERRONEOUSLY implies that I posted a question
or comment about Symmetricom.

ZERO text in this quote / reply was actually from me.

--Sarah
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Azelio Boriani]

Yes, you're right: the radioactive decay is not involved. Anyway the CSAC
is not a primary reference (even if the Cs in used) as pointed out here
when the CSAC was first introduced. Nor a special permission has to be
asked to wear the CSAC.


On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Sarah White kuze...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 5/1/2013 8:43 AM, Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote:
 
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/hoptroff_shows_first_atomic_watch_movement/
 

 Stephen, fellow time nuts,

 [DISCLAIMER] I should really know better than to attempt internet
 discussions or comments first thing after waking up. Didn't stop me
 today though (oops)

 So...

 Did I just make a fool of myself?

 Was I mistaken?

 I tweeted the author of this article, trying to point out that (as I
 understand) radioactive decay is not relevant in any way for cesium
 frequency standard/reference thingies:

 https://twitter.com/kuzetsa/status/329618223916011520

 If someone more authoritative and/or experienced (or at least more
 awake) wanted, please let me know if I was confused and such

 --Sarah
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

[Robert LaJeunesse]

NB Note Bene   literally note well per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nota_bene

I think of NB as keep in mind




From: Sarah White kuze...@gmail.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 6:14:56 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch.

On 5/1/2013 1:48 PM, Michael Tharp wrote:

((...snip...))

 As for the article, The Register is not an outlet known for precise
 reporting. Take it as a journalistic liberty.
 
 NB: Your tweet is not visible to me, so it's somewhat difficult to
 fact-check :-)
 
 -- m. tharp

I deleted the tweet once I realized the article had been fixed:

http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2013-May/076127.html

you meant me, right?

what does NB mean?

--Sarah
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.