Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-10 Thread Ed Palmer 

PINGING Mike Monett .

Thanks for your off-list offer of assistance with startup of this 
simulation.  Unfortunately, your e4ward.com spam filter is a bit too 
effective.  When I tried to respond to your email, it denied knowing 
anything about you.


Please try again - from a reachable address.

Ed

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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bob kb8tq 
Hi

It might be, if it is then an upper turn in the 80C range is not all that crazy.

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 4:24 PM, Angus  wrote:
> 
> 
> That near the end of the temperature range the direction could also
> give a good indication - assuming that there is only one problem...
> 
> I think the 8600-3 is still an AT - the 8607 is SC.
> 
> Angus.
> 
> 
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 15:40:08 -0500, you wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> One basic question - Is the frequency high or low? 
>> 
>> Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible 
>> with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way*
>> off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on
>> the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true SC”or 
>> a 
>> “modified SC”
> .. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10 degrees
>> below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case.
>> 
>> Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that is 
>> the
>> case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of 
>> range”. 
>> Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go 
>> that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing 
> .
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but
>>> I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The
>>> temperature coefficient was terrible with that error.
>>> 
>>> Angus.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 + (UTC), you wrote:
>>> 
 
 Gentlemen,
 We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted 
 into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning 
 coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its 
 specification.
 Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the 
 operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
 Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details.
 Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, 
 isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
 73
 
 Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to 
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bob kb8tq 
Hi

The early HP’s (anything before the 10811 would not have had SC’s in them. 
Depending on this or that they either had AT’s or BT’s. 

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 4:06 PM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
> My HP-103AR is low (the 1 MHz output reads 0.999 999 200 MHz) with the fine
> frequency adjust turned to maximum. I'm a rank amateur at this but the
> circuit diagram looks like a series-resonant (Pierce) oscillator. Looks
> like I need to replace one of the capacitors inside the oven with a smaller
> value.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 12:40 PM Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> One basic question - Is the frequency high or low?
>> 
>> Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible
>> with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way*
>> off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on
>> the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true
>> SC”or a
>> “modified SC”….. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10
>> degrees
>> below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case.
>> 
>> Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that
>> is the
>> case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of
>> range”.
>> Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go
>> that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing ….
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but
>>> I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The
>>> temperature coefficient was terrible with that error.
>>> 
>>> Angus.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 + (UTC), you wrote:
>>> 
 
 Gentlemen,
 We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted
>> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
>> specification.
 Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
>> operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
 Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
>> details.
 Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
>> components, isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
 73
 
 Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
> -- 
> Sent from my iPad 4.
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Angus 

That near the end of the temperature range the direction could also
give a good indication - assuming that there is only one problem...

I think the 8600-3 is still an AT - the 8607 is SC.

Angus.


On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 15:40:08 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi
>
>One basic question - Is the frequency high or low? 
>
>Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible 
>with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way*
>off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on
>the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true SC”or a 
>“modified SC”….. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10 degrees
>below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case.
>
>Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that is 
>the
>case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of 
>range”. 
>Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go 
>that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing ….
>
>Bob
>
>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but
>> I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The
>> temperature coefficient was terrible with that error.
>> 
>> Angus.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 + (UTC), you wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Gentlemen,
>>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted into 
>>> 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning 
>>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its 
>>> specification.
>>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the 
>>> operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
>>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details.
>>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, 
>>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Jeremy Nichols 
My HP-103AR is low (the 1 MHz output reads 0.999 999 200 MHz) with the fine
frequency adjust turned to maximum. I'm a rank amateur at this but the
circuit diagram looks like a series-resonant (Pierce) oscillator. Looks
like I need to replace one of the capacitors inside the oven with a smaller
value.


On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 12:40 PM Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> One basic question - Is the frequency high or low?
>
> Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible
> with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way*
> off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on
> the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true
> SC”or a
> “modified SC”….. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10
> degrees
> below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case.
>
> Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that
> is the
> case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of
> range”.
> Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go
> that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus  wrote:
> >
> >
> > The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but
> > I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The
> > temperature coefficient was terrible with that error.
> >
> > Angus.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 + (UTC), you wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Gentlemen,
> >> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted
> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
> specification.
> >> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
> >> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
> details.
> >> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
> components, isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> >> 73
> >>
> >> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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>
-- 
Sent from my iPad 4.
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bob kb8tq 
Hi

One basic question - Is the frequency high or low? 

Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible 
with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way*
off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on
the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true SC”or a 
“modified SC”….. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10 degrees
below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case.

Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that is the
case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of 
range”. 
Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go 
that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing ….

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus  wrote:
> 
> 
> The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but
> I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The
> temperature coefficient was terrible with that error.
> 
> Angus.
> 
> 
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 + (UTC), you wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Gentlemen,
>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted into 
>> 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning coarse/fineadjustment 
>> potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its specification.
>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the operating 
>> voltageis at 24 VDC.
>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details.
>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, 
>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
>> 73
>> 
>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Angus 

The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but
I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The
temperature coefficient was terrible with that error.

Angus.


On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 + (UTC), you wrote:

> 
>Gentlemen,
>We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted into 
>5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning coarse/fineadjustment 
>potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its specification.
>Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the operating 
>voltageis at 24 VDC.
>Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details.
>Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, 
>isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
>73
>
>Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
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>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bob kb8tq 
Hi

The big deal with the BVA is that the blank is “isolated” from the mount by a 
set of slots 
in the blank edge. That lets them achieve single plane stress isolation. The 
intent is to 
reduce the impact of holder stress as part of aging. Moving the electrodes off 
of the 
blank is intended to reduce the stress effects of the thermal mismatch between 
the electrode
and the quartz. 

There are still *plenty* of reasons for the resonator to age, so no, this does 
not take aging
out of the picture.

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:05 PM, Tom Knox <act...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Happy Holidays Magnus!  What I was wondering was that the BVA is somewhat 
> unique since other oscillators have metal directly deposited over the quartz 
> resonator, where the BVA is capacitive coupled. I was wondering if that made 
> the quartz age less if at all.
> 
> Cheers;
> 
> Thomas Knox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Magnus Danielson 
> <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 11:32 AM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Cc: mag...@rubidium.se
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3
> 
> Hi,
> 
> There is sources of drift all over the place.
> 
> The crystal has drift in it, the oscillator core has sources of drift.
> 
> Already within a crystal there is a bunch of sources. Some can
> compensate each other.
> 
> Improvements in production have reduced effects, but there is always
> something that drifts, somewhat.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
> On 12/08/2017 06:27 PM, Tom Knox wrote:
>> Hi All;
>> 
>> Is the "Aging" generally related to the quartz, or other components?
>> 
>> Happy-Merry;
>> 
>> Thomas Knox
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq 
>> <kb...@n1k.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:58 AM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily 
>> adjust it by
>> just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 
>> ppm, but
>> the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill 
>> crystal.
>> The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in 
>> series with
>> the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range 
>> down quite
>> a bit….
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I 
>>> have for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and 
>>> potentially find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, 
>>> but should maybe take a look.
>>> 
>>> However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very 
>>> low phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The 
>>> offset error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent 
>>> quality time to fix it.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Magnus
>>> 
>>> On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote:
>>>> I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
>>>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
>>>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot 
>>>> arrangement.
>>>> That sounds ugly.
>>>> Regards
>>>> Paul
>>>> WB8TSL
>>>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
>>>>> has simply drifted
>>>>> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
>>>>> tuning device once
>>>>> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
>>>>> the coarse tune or in
>>>>> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
>>>>> things back on
>>>>> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>

Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bob kb8tq 
Hi

Assuming it’s a unit with a 60C upper end temperature and that the 80C is the 
oven
temperature, that seems about right. The chart in the data sheet runs from 77C 
to 
89 C. 

If it was a conventional / old style 5 MHz 5th overtone AT cut crystal the Q of 
the resonator 
would be up around 5 million on a properly done part. That can happen one of 
two basic
ways. You can have a really low Rm or a really low Cm (of course it can. be a 
bit of both…).
If you happen to be in the “really low Rm regime, the tuning of the crystal 
isn’t going to be
any more crazy than one with much lower Q (and the same Cm). Yes, Co and the 
finish point
get in there as well ….

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Bert Kehren via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> What about 80 C is that normal for an 8600?
> Bert Kehren
> 
> 
> In a message dated 12/8/2017 11:32:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> jn6...@gmail.com writes:
> 
> My  HP-103AR frequency standard has a similar problem. I have been advised
> to  take it apart and replace one of the capacitors in order to bring  the
> frequency back into the range of adjustment. Sounds like you have the  same
> problem.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM paul  swed  wrote:
> 
>> I took a quick look at the  spec sheet.
>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would  actually be a pot.
>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or  a pot on pot
>> arrangement.
>> That sounds ugly.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at  10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> It is quite possible that nothing is actually  broken and that the 
> crystal
>>> has simply drifted
>>> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
>>> tuning device once
>>> the package is open. I would bet you will  find a selected capacitor
>> across
>>> the coarse tune or  in
>>> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap  should 
> bring
>>> things back on
>>> frequency. I would avoid  changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
 On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall  via time-nuts <
>>> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
 
 
 Gentlemen,
 We have  an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be 
> adjusted
>>> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
>>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto  
> its
>>> specification.
 Oven temperature is about +  80C accordingto the thermistor and the
>>> operating voltageis at 24  VDC.
 Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis  datasheets w/o any
>>> details.
 Before I take it  apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
>> components,
>>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
 73
 
 Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
 ___
 time-nuts  mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
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>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
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>> and follow the  instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Tom Knox 
Happy Holidays Magnus!  What I was wondering was that the BVA is somewhat 
unique since other oscillators have metal directly deposited over the quartz 
resonator, where the BVA is capacitive coupled. I was wondering if that made 
the quartz age less if at all.

Cheers;

Thomas Knox




From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Magnus Danielson 
<mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 11:32 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Cc: mag...@rubidium.se
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

Hi,

There is sources of drift all over the place.

The crystal has drift in it, the oscillator core has sources of drift.

Already within a crystal there is a bunch of sources. Some can
compensate each other.

Improvements in production have reduced effects, but there is always
something that drifts, somewhat.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 12/08/2017 06:27 PM, Tom Knox wrote:
> Hi All;
>
> Is the "Aging" generally related to the quartz, or other components?
>
> Happy-Merry;
>
> Thomas Knox
>
>
>
> 
> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq 
> <kb...@n1k.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:58 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3
>
> Hi
>
> One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily 
> adjust it by
> just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 
> ppm, but
> the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill 
> crystal.
> The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in 
> series with
> the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range 
> down quite
> a bit….
>
> Bob
>
>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I 
>> have for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and 
>> potentially find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, but 
>> should maybe take a look.
>>
>> However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very 
>> low phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The 
>> offset error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent 
>> quality time to fix it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>>
>> On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote:
>>> I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
>>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
>>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement.
>>> That sounds ugly.
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
>>>> has simply drifted
>>>> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
>>>> tuning device once
>>>> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
>>>> the coarse tune or in
>>>> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
>>>> things back on
>>>> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
>>>> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gentlemen,
>>>>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted
>>>> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
>>>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
>>>> specification.
>>>>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
>>>> operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
>>>>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
>>>> details.
>>>>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components,
>>>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
>>>>> 73
>>>>>
>>>>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
>>>>> ___
>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- ti

Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread paul swed 
Berts right about the 80C that seems high. But when I looked at the spec
sheet no details.
Regards
Paul

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Bert Kehren via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> What about 80 C is that normal for an 8600?
> Bert Kehren
>
>
> In a message dated 12/8/2017 11:32:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> jn6...@gmail.com writes:
>
> My  HP-103AR frequency standard has a similar problem. I have been advised
> to  take it apart and replace one of the capacitors in order to bring  the
> frequency back into the range of adjustment. Sounds like you have the  same
> problem.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM paul  swed  wrote:
>
> > I took a quick look at the  spec sheet.
> > It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would  actually be a pot.
> > That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or  a pot on pot
> > arrangement.
> > That sounds ugly.
> >  Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at  10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> >
> > >  Hi
> > >
> > > It is quite possible that nothing is actually  broken and that the
> crystal
> > > has simply drifted
> > >  outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
> >  > tuning device once
> > > the package is open. I would bet you will  find a selected capacitor
> > across
> > > the coarse tune or  in
> > > series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap  should
> bring
> > > things back on
> > > frequency. I would avoid  changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
> > >
> > >  Bob
> > >
> > > > On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall  via time-nuts <
> > > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> > >  >
> > > >
> > > > Gentlemen,
> > > > We have  an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be
> adjusted
> > >  into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> > >  coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto
> its
> > > specification.
> > > > Oven temperature is about +  80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> > > operating voltageis at 24  VDC.
> > > > Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis  datasheets w/o any
> > > details.
> > > > Before I take it  apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
> > components,
> > >  isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> > > > 73
> > >  >
> > > > Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> > > >  ___
> > > > time-nuts  mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >  > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > >  ___
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> > > To unsubscribe, go to  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >  > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> >  ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to
> >  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the  instructions there.
> >
> --
> Sent from my iPad  4.
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bert Kehren via time-nuts 
What about 80 C is that normal for an 8600?
Bert Kehren
 
 
In a message dated 12/8/2017 11:32:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jn6...@gmail.com writes:

My  HP-103AR frequency standard has a similar problem. I have been advised
to  take it apart and replace one of the capacitors in order to bring  the
frequency back into the range of adjustment. Sounds like you have the  same
problem.

Jeremy


On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM paul  swed  wrote:

> I took a quick look at the  spec sheet.
> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would  actually be a pot.
> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or  a pot on pot
> arrangement.
> That sounds ugly.
>  Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at  10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>
> >  Hi
> >
> > It is quite possible that nothing is actually  broken and that the 
crystal
> > has simply drifted
> >  outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
>  > tuning device once
> > the package is open. I would bet you will  find a selected capacitor
> across
> > the coarse tune or  in
> > series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap  should 
bring
> > things back on
> > frequency. I would avoid  changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
> >
> >  Bob
> >
> > > On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall  via time-nuts <
> > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> >  >
> > >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > > We have  an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be 
adjusted
> >  into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> >  coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto  
its
> > specification.
> > > Oven temperature is about +  80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> > operating voltageis at 24  VDC.
> > > Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis  datasheets w/o any
> > details.
> > > Before I take it  apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
> components,
> >  isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> > > 73
> >  >
> > > Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> > >  ___
> > > time-nuts  mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>  > > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >  ___
> > time-nuts mailing  list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>  > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>  ___
> time-nuts mailing list  -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
>  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the  instructions there.
>
-- 
Sent from my iPad  4.
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Magnus Danielson 

Hi,

There is sources of drift all over the place.

The crystal has drift in it, the oscillator core has sources of drift.

Already within a crystal there is a bunch of sources. Some can 
compensate each other.


Improvements in production have reduced effects, but there is always 
something that drifts, somewhat.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 12/08/2017 06:27 PM, Tom Knox wrote:

Hi All;

Is the "Aging" generally related to the quartz, or other components?

Happy-Merry;

Thomas Knox




From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq 
<kb...@n1k.org>
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:58 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

Hi

One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily 
adjust it by
just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 ppm, 
but
the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill 
crystal.
The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in 
series with
the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range 
down quite
a bit….

Bob


On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> 
wrote:

Hi,

Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I have 
for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and potentially 
find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, but should maybe 
take a look.

However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very low 
phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The offset 
error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent quality time 
to fix it.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote:

I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement.
That sounds ugly.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

Hi

It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
has simply drifted
outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
tuning device once
the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
the coarse tune or in
series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
things back on
frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.

Bob


On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <

time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:



Gentlemen,
We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted

into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
specification.

Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the

operating voltageis at 24 VDC.

Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any

details.

Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components,

isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?

73

Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
___
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/

mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread jimlux 

On 12/8/17 9:29 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

Hi,

The unloaded Q is above 3 million, which is another way to measure how 
unusual these are.


If I had schematics I would be more inclined to do something.






However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, 
but very low phase noise and high stability source as reference for 
measurement. The offset error is less of a concern then, so that is 
why I have not spent quality time to fix it.





Don't people *want* a nice quiet oscillator with a slight offset, that 
way you're already set up for the DMTD measurement.


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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Magnus Danielson 

Hi,

The unloaded Q is above 3 million, which is another way to measure how 
unusual these are.


If I had schematics I would be more inclined to do something.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 12/08/2017 05:58 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily 
adjust it by
just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 ppm, 
but
the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill 
crystal.
The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in 
series with
the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range 
down quite
a bit….

Bob


On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson  
wrote:

Hi,

Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I have 
for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and potentially 
find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, but should maybe 
take a look.

However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very low 
phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The offset 
error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent quality time 
to fix it.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote:

I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement.
That sounds ugly.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

Hi

It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
has simply drifted
outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
tuning device once
the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
the coarse tune or in
series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
things back on
frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.

Bob


On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <

time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:



Gentlemen,
We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted

into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
specification.

Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the

operating voltageis at 24 VDC.

Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any

details.

Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components,

isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?

73

Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
___
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Tom Knox 
Hi All;

Is the "Aging" generally related to the quartz, or other components?

Happy-Merry;

Thomas Knox




From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq 
<kb...@n1k.org>
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:58 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

Hi

One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily 
adjust it by
just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 ppm, 
but
the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill 
crystal.
The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in 
series with
the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range 
down quite
a bit….

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I 
> have for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and 
> potentially find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, but 
> should maybe take a look.
>
> However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very 
> low phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The 
> offset error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent 
> quality time to fix it.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote:
>> I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement.
>> That sounds ugly.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
>>> has simply drifted
>>> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
>>> tuning device once
>>> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
>>> the coarse tune or in
>>> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
>>> things back on
>>> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
>>> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gentlemen,
>>>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted
>>> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
>>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
>>> specification.
>>>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
>>> operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
>>>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
>>> details.
>>>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components,
>>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
>>>> ___
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bob kb8tq 
Hi

One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily 
adjust it by
just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 ppm, 
but 
the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill 
crystal.
The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in 
series with
the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range 
down quite
a bit….

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I 
> have for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and 
> potentially find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, but 
> should maybe take a look.
> 
> However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very 
> low phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The 
> offset error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent 
> quality time to fix it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
> On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote:
>> I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement.
>> That sounds ugly.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
>>> has simply drifted
>>> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
>>> tuning device once
>>> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
>>> the coarse tune or in
>>> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
>>> things back on
>>> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
 On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
>>> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
 
 
 Gentlemen,
 We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted
>>> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
>>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
>>> specification.
 Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
>>> operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
 Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
>>> details.
 Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components,
>>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
 73
 
 Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Magnus Danielson 

Hi,

Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as 
I have for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and 
potentially find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, 
but should maybe take a look.


However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but 
very low phase noise and high stability source as reference for 
measurement. The offset error is less of a concern then, so that is why 
I have not spent quality time to fix it.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote:

I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement.
That sounds ugly.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:


Hi

It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
has simply drifted
outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
tuning device once
the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
the coarse tune or in
series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
things back on
frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.

Bob


On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <

time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:



Gentlemen,
We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted

into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
specification.

Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the

operating voltageis at 24 VDC.

Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any

details.

Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components,

isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?

73

Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
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mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

and follow the instructions there.


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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bob kb8tq 
Hi

These days there is really no reason at all to play with silver mica caps in
an oscillator. A very normal ceramic NPO will do just as well. It also will 
be cheaper / easier to find. If you want to go exotic, go for glass or 
porcelain 
caps. It is pretty unlikely you will find them in a surplus OCXO. No real need
to stock them up as spares …..

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:38 AM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> I have also done this to older oscillators and it works.
> When you look at the caps in the unit, if you are lucky somehow you may be
> able to see what type they are.
> Yes silver mica but there are various qualities and tempco's.
> Try to match the quality if at all possible.
> Otherwise guess.
> Good luck and its not the worst issue you will run into.
> Just maybe thats why you obtained the oscillator in the first place.
> Hey bad stuff is my friend.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
>> My HP-103AR frequency standard has a similar problem. I have been advised
>> to take it apart and replace one of the capacitors in order to bring the
>> frequency back into the range of adjustment. Sounds like you have the same
>> problem.
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM paul swed  wrote:
>> 
>>> I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
>>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
>>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot
>>> arrangement.
>>> That sounds ugly.
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi
 
 It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the
>> crystal
 has simply drifted
 outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
 tuning device once
 the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor
>>> across
 the coarse tune or in
 series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should
>> bring
 things back on
 frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
 
 Bob
 
> On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
 time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Gentlemen,
> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be
>> adjusted
 into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
 coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
 specification.
> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
 operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
 details.
> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
>>> components,
 isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> 73
> 
> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
 mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
 mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> --
>> Sent from my iPad 4.
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread paul swed 
I have also done this to older oscillators and it works.
When you look at the caps in the unit, if you are lucky somehow you may be
able to see what type they are.
Yes silver mica but there are various qualities and tempco's.
Try to match the quality if at all possible.
Otherwise guess.
Good luck and its not the worst issue you will run into.
Just maybe thats why you obtained the oscillator in the first place.
Hey bad stuff is my friend.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:

> My HP-103AR frequency standard has a similar problem. I have been advised
> to take it apart and replace one of the capacitors in order to bring the
> frequency back into the range of adjustment. Sounds like you have the same
> problem.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM paul swed  wrote:
>
> > I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
> > It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
> > That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot
> > arrangement.
> > That sounds ugly.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the
> crystal
> > > has simply drifted
> > > outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
> > > tuning device once
> > > the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor
> > across
> > > the coarse tune or in
> > > series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should
> bring
> > > things back on
> > > frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > > On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
> > > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gentlemen,
> > > > We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be
> adjusted
> > > into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> > > coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
> > > specification.
> > > > Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> > > operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
> > > > Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
> > > details.
> > > > Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
> > components,
> > > isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> > > > 73
> > > >
> > > > Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> > > > ___
> > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> --
> Sent from my iPad 4.
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Jeremy Nichols 
My HP-103AR frequency standard has a similar problem. I have been advised
to take it apart and replace one of the capacitors in order to bring the
frequency back into the range of adjustment. Sounds like you have the same
problem.

Jeremy


On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM paul swed  wrote:

> I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot
> arrangement.
> That sounds ugly.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
> > has simply drifted
> > outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
> > tuning device once
> > the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor
> across
> > the coarse tune or in
> > series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
> > things back on
> > frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
> > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > > We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted
> > into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> > coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
> > specification.
> > > Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> > operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
> > > Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
> > details.
> > > Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
> components,
> > isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> > > 73
> > >
> > > Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> and follow the instructions there.
>
-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread paul swed 
I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement.
That sounds ugly.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
> has simply drifted
> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
> tuning device once
> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
> the coarse tune or in
> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
> things back on
> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gentlemen,
> > We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted
> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
> specification.
> > Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
> > Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
> details.
> > Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components,
> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> > 73
> >
> > Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
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> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

2017-12-08 Thread Bob kb8tq 
Hi

It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal has 
simply drifted 
outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse tuning 
device once
the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across the 
coarse tune or in 
series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring things 
back on
frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode. 

Bob

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Gentlemen,
> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted into 
> 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning coarse/fineadjustment 
> potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its specification.
> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the operating 
> voltageis at 24 VDC.
> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details.
> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, 
> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> 73
> 
> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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