Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Well, Steve has been experiencing a LOT of after-shocks, some of which are still big enough to move things around and I found I had to grab hold of my cup of tea to stop it shaking onto the floor last night. In fact these after-shocks are still opening up new cracks in roads and causing buildings to fall. As for my height position, I have run a few surveys but I'm getting varying readings and I wonder if the after-shocks are messing up the survey results. The latest one which was during a fairly stable period was 6.8 MSL. The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. Regards from Quake City, Steve On 7 September 2010 15:24, Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net wrote: Ah, well, Steve's message didn't appear here. There are several possibilities: Steve's mast really did sink 1.3 metres. His continent really did sink 1.3m. Some bureaucrat adjusted MSL by 1.3m quietly because it would be politically incorrect to admit that the globe was actually warming. We have some idea of how time is adjusted for GPS. Does anyone know how and when MSL is adjusted? I mean, 1.3m is quite a lot. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Thomas A. Frank Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:57 PM On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve That might be something worth investigating. After all, if it's true, that's not a good trend... Tom Frank, KA2CDK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Steve, On 09/07/2010 08:08 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Well, Steve has been experiencing a LOT of after-shocks, some of which are still big enough to move things around and I found I had to grab hold of my cup of tea to stop it shaking onto the floor last night. In fact these after-shocks are still opening up new cracks in roads and causing buildings to fall. As for my height position, I have run a few surveys but I'm getting varying readings and I wonder if the after-shocks are messing up the survey results. The latest one which was during a fairly stable period was 6.8 MSL. The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. I keep wondering if you have not had a change in your multipath environment. Multipath can cause biases like that... If things have been dislocated a bit sideways and such, the vector sum may be quite different... Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
sar10...@gmail.com said: The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It's not off scale to move a meter vertically, but I can't find anything that makes me think it's likely in this case. If something like that happened due to construction on a marsh, I'd expect there would be a lot of disruption on the local surface, that is the local vertical displacement would not be uniform. But you wouldn't see that if a large corner of a plate moved up or down. If there was a large vertical displacement, we should be able to find something in a news report, or maybe some better info will appear in a week or month after the local geology geeks have collected more data and analyzed it carefully. (The data from the Chile quake was very very good, but they had a major data gathering setup in exactly the right spot.) This news story at: http://preview.tinyurl.com/24y8e7a http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1309194/ New-Zealand-earthquake-moves-Earths-surface-11ft-right.html says 11 feet horizontal and Roger Bates, whose dairy farm at Darfield was close to the quake's epicentre 19 miles west of Christchurch, said the new faultline had ripped up the surface across his land. `The whole dairy farm is like the sea now, with real soil waves right across the dairy farm. `We don't have physical holes (but) where the fault goes through it's been raised a metre or metre and a half.' Another URL: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3xnf43u http://www.gns.cri.nz/Home/Learning/Science-Topics/Earthquakes/ New-Zealand-Earthquakes/Where-were-NZs-largest-earthquakes says: The biggest NZ earthquake - magnitude 8.2 Wairarapa earthquake in 1855. On an international scale, the 1855 earthquake is of major significance in terms of the area affected and the amount of fault movement. About 5000km2 of land was shifted vertically during the quake. The maximum uplift was 6.4m near Turakirae Head, east of Wellington. The maximum horizontal movement along the fault was about 18m. This is the largest displacement along a vertical fault line ever recorded! Ahh... Here is a URL that says variable vertical movement of up to 1 m http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ysb4ta http://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2010/09/ tectonics-of-the-m7-earthquake-near-christchurch-new-zealand/ Time sink warning, there are good links on that page. In particular, lots of good pictures here: http://www.crashbang.co.nz/quake040910/index.html For the 1989 Loma Prieta (San Francisco) quake, the local photographers donated lots of good pictures and they made a couple of picture books. Profits went to the needy. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Magnus, On 7 September 2010 19:49, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Steve, On 09/07/2010 08:08 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Well, Steve has been experiencing a LOT of after-shocks, some of which are still big enough to move things around and I found I had to grab hold of my cup of tea to stop it shaking onto the floor last night. In fact these after-shocks are still opening up new cracks in roads and causing buildings to fall. As for my height position, I have run a few surveys but I'm getting varying readings and I wonder if the after-shocks are messing up the survey results. The latest one which was during a fairly stable period was 6.8 MSL. The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. I keep wondering if you have not had a change in your multipath environment. Multipath can cause biases like that... If things have been dislocated a bit sideways and such, the vector sum may be quite different... I still can't get a stable reading from doing repeated surveys so something is effecting the readings as they used to come out at 7.5m MSL reliably. The latest one was 5.4m MSL and I'm having trouble believing that. As regards a change in multipath, I really don't see how that could be the case as we have not had any lateral movement of the immediate surrounding environment and I'm pretty clear of obstacles to the North as my garden leads onto a wildlife reserve with hardly any trees nearby. Cheers, Steve Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
I've seen news coverage of that field in Darfield and it's just like a giant has torn each end of the field apart with half of it going one way and the other end going in the opposite direction. There are still new cracks and crevasses opening up each day as the magnitude of the after-shocks are reaching 5.4 on a daily basis. A geologist said that it's generally the case that the highest after-shock will be 1 unit below the peak so we should be prepared for a 6.1 at some time soon. The only good thing about this is that the Earth hasn't moved so much for me in ages :) Cheers from Quake City (it used to be called The Garden City but they have renamed it now), Steve On 7 September 2010 20:19, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: sar10...@gmail.com said: The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It's not off scale to move a meter vertically, but I can't find anything that makes me think it's likely in this case. If something like that happened due to construction on a marsh, I'd expect there would be a lot of disruption on the local surface, that is the local vertical displacement would not be uniform. But you wouldn't see that if a large corner of a plate moved up or down. If there was a large vertical displacement, we should be able to find something in a news report, or maybe some better info will appear in a week or month after the local geology geeks have collected more data and analyzed it carefully. (The data from the Chile quake was very very good, but they had a major data gathering setup in exactly the right spot.) This news story at: http://preview.tinyurl.com/24y8e7a http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1309194/ New-Zealand-earthquake-moves-Earths-surface-11ft-right.html says 11 feet horizontal and Roger Bates, whose dairy farm at Darfield was close to the quake's epicentre 19 miles west of Christchurch, said the new faultline had ripped up the surface across his land. `The whole dairy farm is like the sea now, with real soil waves right across the dairy farm. `We don't have physical holes (but) where the fault goes through it's been raised a metre or metre and a half.' Another URL: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3xnf43u http://www.gns.cri.nz/Home/Learning/Science-Topics/Earthquakes/ New-Zealand-Earthquakes/Where-were-NZs-largest-earthquakes says: The biggest NZ earthquake - magnitude 8.2 Wairarapa earthquake in 1855. On an international scale, the 1855 earthquake is of major significance in terms of the area affected and the amount of fault movement. About 5000km2 of land was shifted vertically during the quake. The maximum uplift was 6.4m near Turakirae Head, east of Wellington. The maximum horizontal movement along the fault was about 18m. This is the largest displacement along a vertical fault line ever recorded! Ahh... Here is a URL that says variable vertical movement of up to 1 m http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ysb4ta http://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2010/09/ tectonics-of-the-m7-earthquake-near-christchurch-new-zealand/ Time sink warning, there are good links on that page. In particular, lots of good pictures here: http://www.crashbang.co.nz/quake040910/index.html For the 1989 Loma Prieta (San Francisco) quake, the local photographers donated lots of good pictures and they made a couple of picture books. Profits went to the needy. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Yes we do need leap-Centimeters for MSL :-D Stanley snip Some bureaucrat adjusted MSL by 1.3m quietly because it would be politically incorrect to admit that the globe was actually warming. We have some idea of how time is adjusted for GPS. Does anyone know how and when MSL is adjusted? I mean, 1.3m is quite a lot. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Thomas A. Frank Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:57 PM On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve That might be something worth investigating. After all, if it's true, that's not a good trend... Tom Frank, KA2CDK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Steve Rooke wrote: Well, Steve has been experiencing a LOT of after-shocks, some of which are still big enough to move things around and I found I had to grab hold of my cup of tea to stop it shaking onto the floor last night. In fact these after-shocks are still opening up new cracks in roads and causing buildings to fall. As for my height position, I have run a few surveys but I'm getting varying readings and I wonder if the after-shocks are messing up the survey results. The latest one which was during a fairly stable period was 6.8 MSL. The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. You could easily have a displacement of a meter or more.. The (M7+) Landers earthquake here in Southern California a few years back had a lateral displacement of 10 meters or so and vertical displacements of a meter. If there's any soil subsidence, that would also account for a lot http://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2010/09/tectonics-of-the-m7-earthquake-near-christchurch-new-zealand/ has a nifty picture: the classic aerial shot of a hedgerow/treeline with obvious displacement (about halfway down the page) New Zealand geologists have already identified a 13km fault trace with 3-4 m of right lateral, strike-slip offset, and variable vertical movement of up to 1 m. Also there was this in a page linked from the above: Deformation Portable GPS instruments are planned to be deployed on September 6 (Monday) to re-occupy GPS 40 - 50 sites in the region looking for changes. GNS scientists will be joined by colleagues from Land Information New Zealand (LINZ). A preliminary estimate of the McQueen's Valley (MQZG) co-seismic displacement is 135 mm at about 300 degrees azimuth. This permanent receiver is located on Banks Peninsula. This result is consistent with a magnitude 7.1 earthquake on a vertical strike-slip fault at the location where the geologists have found surface rupture, but it is only one point and it would be consistent with many other scenarios as well. We can expect displacements of 200+ mm at a number of the temporary GPS stations we are planning to visit, and there is one station in particular that may be within a few kilometres of the surface rupture and thus have a much higher displacement. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. Regards from Quake City, Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
HI Bill... Yes, the HDBX version goes that high, it was the base BX that I didn't think went past 50 feet. Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of WB6BNQ Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:38 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast Tom, Actually the Rohn HDBX towers went up to 64 feet (not counting any pipe used to mount the Beams) free standing as I have one. What happens is the amount of allowed loading decreases with height. Just sticking up a GPS antenna would not overload a HDBX at 64 feet. You are right about it being a PITA as for climbing. Each section is only 8 feet in length but narrows as it goes up. It is possible with the right base to have it in a tilt-over arrangement. Otherwise, it helps to rent a man-lift to do the assembly if you got the guts to go in one. BillWB6BNQ Tom Holmes wrote: Charles... Rohn's HDBX series would go to 50 feet, free-standing. It is a real pain to climb because the braces cross in an 'X' pattern, but is quite sturdy. Two reasonably fit climbers plus a one person ground crew could put it up in a few hours once the base is ready. These towers tend to twist more than rock, unlike Rohn 25, 45, or 55. For your minimal load GPS antenna, even the BX series would be adequate, but I don't believe there is a 50 foot version. Now that I think about it, Rohn sold off all of the various BX series, and it is now marketed by Thomas Shelby. Any piece of tubing you would try to take to 50 feet would likely buckle under its own weight and length pretty quickly (all of you ME's and physics majors can correct my terminology and choice of failure modes off list, the point being that it WILL fall down if you can even get it put up), and would definitely need to be guyed. This leads me to another possibility, if money is not a concern. One ham friend of mine has a 120 foot tower that is based on those tapered lighting supports you see along the freeways. It is galvanized and consists of three sections that simply nest for about a 10 foot overlap. Of course, it takes a crane to assemble. Remember, I said if money is not a concern...but it does look very nice and serious and professional. Climbing it is not for the faint of heart, believe me! Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 1:08 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 8 September 2010 01:23, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes we do need leap-Centimeters for MSL :-D Pilot to co-pilot: Well the instruments say we should have landed by now... Steve Stanley snip Some bureaucrat adjusted MSL by 1.3m quietly because it would be politically incorrect to admit that the globe was actually warming. We have some idea of how time is adjusted for GPS. Does anyone know how and when MSL is adjusted? I mean, 1.3m is quite a lot. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Thomas A. Frank Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:57 PM On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve That might be something worth investigating. After all, if it's true, that's not a good trend... Tom Frank, KA2CDK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 8 September 2010 01:38, jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: You could easily have a displacement of a meter or more.. The (M7+) Landers earthquake here in Southern California a few years back had a lateral displacement of 10 meters or so and vertical displacements of a meter. If there's any soil subsidence, that would also account for a lot http://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2010/09/tectonics-of-the-m7-earthquake-near-christchurch-new-zealand/ The paragraph that says The most striking feature of this map is the section of the Alpine fault in the central South Island that has not ruptured in the last couple of centuries – which suggests there might be a fair amount of strain belt up waiting to be released. is quite a worry for us as they predict we are well due for a significant movement of the Alpine fault and it will be a major event. Maybe it's time to move :) Steve has a nifty picture: the classic aerial shot of a hedgerow/treeline with obvious displacement (about halfway down the page) New Zealand geologists have already identified a 13km fault trace with 3-4 m of right lateral, strike-slip offset, and variable vertical movement of up to 1 m. Also there was this in a page linked from the above: Deformation Portable GPS instruments are planned to be deployed on September 6 (Monday) to re-occupy GPS 40 - 50 sites in the region looking for changes. GNS scientists will be joined by colleagues from Land Information New Zealand (LINZ). A preliminary estimate of the McQueen's Valley (MQZG) co-seismic displacement is 135 mm at about 300 degrees azimuth. This permanent receiver is located on Banks Peninsula. This result is consistent with a magnitude 7.1 earthquake on a vertical strike-slip fault at the location where the geologists have found surface rupture, but it is only one point and it would be consistent with many other scenarios as well. We can expect displacements of 200+ mm at a number of the temporary GPS stations we are planning to visit, and there is one station in particular that may be within a few kilometres of the surface rupture and thus have a much higher displacement. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. Regards from Quake City, Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Steve Rooke wrote: On 8 September 2010 01:23, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes we do need leap-Centimeters for MSL :-D Pilot to co-pilot: Well the instruments say we should have landed by now... Steve You forgot the canonical next couple lines in the transcript: Copilot: what was that? sound of impact ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve That might be something worth investigating. After all, if it's true, that's not a good trend... Tom Frank, KA2CDK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Ah, well, Steve's message didn't appear here. There are several possibilities: Steve's mast really did sink 1.3 metres. His continent really did sink 1.3m. Some bureaucrat adjusted MSL by 1.3m quietly because it would be politically incorrect to admit that the globe was actually warming. We have some idea of how time is adjusted for GPS. Does anyone know how and when MSL is adjusted? I mean, 1.3m is quite a lot. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Thomas A. Frank Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:57 PM On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve That might be something worth investigating. After all, if it's true, that's not a good trend... Tom Frank, KA2CDK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. Cheers, Steve Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 03 September 2010 5:32 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast If your nearby houses and obstructions are not high, IE. if the houses there are single story, you may be able to get away with what I have done. Instead of fixing something on the house, I've attached a couple of antenna to the top of one of my washing line poles in the garden as this faces South (I'm in the Southern Hemisphere) and I get an average of 7-8 sats every day and up to 12 at night. It makes any maintenance easy, if you get any snow it is easy to clear at that height, there is much less windage if your subject to strong winds and, if you don't use your washing line, the size of the poles make them quite rigid so you don't suffer a lot of noise that you would high up on a thin pole. Just a thought. Steve On 3 September 2010 12:46, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Hi Steve, On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected by the earthquake. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Magnus Danielson wrote: Hi Steve, On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected by the earthquake. Cheers, Magnus Along with other North Island dwelling TN's I didn't feel a thing. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 5 September 2010 22:29, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Magnus Danielson wrote: Hi Steve, On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected by the earthquake. Cheers, Magnus Along with other North Island dwelling TN's I didn't feel a thing. Apparently they felt it up to New Plymouth. I'm glad it did not hit Auckland as the effects could have been much worse. Down here were very hardy and a bit of a wobble is nothing :) Steve Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve On 5 September 2010 23:56, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 September 2010 22:29, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Magnus Danielson wrote: Hi Steve, On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected by the earthquake. Cheers, Magnus Along with other North Island dwelling TN's I didn't feel a thing. Apparently they felt it up to New Plymouth. I'm glad it did not hit Auckland as the effects could have been much worse. Down here were very hardy and a bit of a wobble is nothing :) Steve Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 03 September 2010 5:32 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast If your nearby houses and obstructions are not high, IE. if the houses there are single story, you may be able to get away with what I have done. Instead of fixing something on the house, I've attached a couple of antenna to the top of one of my washing line poles in the garden as this faces South (I'm in the Southern Hemisphere) and I get an average of 7-8 sats every day and up to 12 at night. It makes any maintenance easy, if you get any snow it is easy to clear at that height, there is much less windage if your subject to strong winds and, if you don't use your washing line, the size of the poles make them quite rigid so you don't suffer a lot of noise that you would high up on a thin pole. Just a thought. Steve On 3 September 2010 12:46, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
You could try a box kite, or a tethered balloon. An interesting project would be a computer controlled kite servoed to hold a constant position. Or a sky hook? What about a remote site with a radio or laser link to your QTH? The more ideas that you start with the more likely you will find a good solution. cheers, Neville Michie On 03/09/2010, at 3:08 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 3 September 2010 20:48, Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com wrote: You could try a box kite, or a tethered balloon. An interesting project would be a computer controlled kite servoed to hold a constant position. Now that would be be some project. They are actually making generators which are attached to balloons that go up into the jet streams to generate electricity. Even a relatively small unit can produce 2MW so you can make your own energy at the same time. Or a sky hook? What about a remote site with a radio or laser link to your QTH? The more ideas that you start with the more likely you will find a good solution. You could also attach a nice high gain amplifier to it too, just to make up for all the loss in the cable hanging down from it :) Cheers, Steve cheers, Neville Michie On 03/09/2010, at 3:08 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Hi With enough output from a laser you could balance it on the beam. Might bother the neighbors for a few (dozen) miles around. Bob On Sep 3, 2010, at 4:48 AM, Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com wrote: You could try a box kite, or a tethered balloon. An interesting project would be a computer controlled kite servoed to hold a constant position. Or a sky hook? What about a remote site with a radio or laser link to your QTH? The more ideas that you start with the more likely you will find a good solution. cheers, Neville Michie On 03/09/2010, at 3:08 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
I've tried balloons for HF wire antennas. Unless you can get a serious balloon ( several feet in diameter) it's essentially hopeless. -John = You could try a box kite, or a tethered balloon. An interesting project would be a computer controlled kite servoed to hold a constant position. Or a sky hook? What about a remote site with a radio or laser link to your QTH? The more ideas that you start with the more likely you will find a good solution. cheers, Neville Michie On 03/09/2010, at 3:08 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Hi Same thing is true for kites. I have a couple that you tie off to the hitch on an SUV that will do the trick. Small simple kites won't lift a lot of weight or tolerate a lot of added drag. Bob On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:14 AM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: I've tried balloons for HF wire antennas. Unless you can get a serious balloon ( several feet in diameter) it's essentially hopeless. -John = You could try a box kite, or a tethered balloon. An interesting project would be a computer controlled kite servoed to hold a constant position. Or a sky hook? What about a remote site with a radio or laser link to your QTH? The more ideas that you start with the more likely you will find a good solution. cheers, Neville Michie On 03/09/2010, at 3:08 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Charles... Rohn's HDBX series would go to 50 feet, free-standing. It is a real pain to climb because the braces cross in an 'X' pattern, but is quite sturdy. Two reasonably fit climbers plus a one person ground crew could put it up in a few hours once the base is ready. These towers tend to twist more than rock, unlike Rohn 25, 45, or 55. For your minimal load GPS antenna, even the BX series would be adequate, but I don't believe there is a 50 foot version. Now that I think about it, Rohn sold off all of the various BX series, and it is now marketed by Thomas Shelby. Any piece of tubing you would try to take to 50 feet would likely buckle under its own weight and length pretty quickly (all of you ME's and physics majors can correct my terminology and choice of failure modes off list, the point being that it WILL fall down if you can even get it put up), and would definitely need to be guyed. This leads me to another possibility, if money is not a concern. One ham friend of mine has a 120 foot tower that is based on those tapered lighting supports you see along the freeways. It is galvanized and consists of three sections that simply nest for about a 10 foot overlap. Of course, it takes a crane to assemble. Remember, I said if money is not a concern...but it does look very nice and serious and professional. Climbing it is not for the faint of heart, believe me! Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 1:08 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Tom, Actually the Rohn HDBX towers went up to 64 feet (not counting any pipe used to mount the Beams) free standing as I have one. What happens is the amount of allowed loading decreases with height. Just sticking up a GPS antenna would not overload a HDBX at 64 feet. You are right about it being a PITA as for climbing. Each section is only 8 feet in length but narrows as it goes up. It is possible with the right base to have it in a tilt-over arrangement. Otherwise, it helps to rent a man-lift to do the assembly if you got the guts to go in one. BillWB6BNQ Tom Holmes wrote: Charles... Rohn's HDBX series would go to 50 feet, free-standing. It is a real pain to climb because the braces cross in an 'X' pattern, but is quite sturdy. Two reasonably fit climbers plus a one person ground crew could put it up in a few hours once the base is ready. These towers tend to twist more than rock, unlike Rohn 25, 45, or 55. For your minimal load GPS antenna, even the BX series would be adequate, but I don't believe there is a 50 foot version. Now that I think about it, Rohn sold off all of the various BX series, and it is now marketed by Thomas Shelby. Any piece of tubing you would try to take to 50 feet would likely buckle under its own weight and length pretty quickly (all of you ME's and physics majors can correct my terminology and choice of failure modes off list, the point being that it WILL fall down if you can even get it put up), and would definitely need to be guyed. This leads me to another possibility, if money is not a concern. One ham friend of mine has a 120 foot tower that is based on those tapered lighting supports you see along the freeways. It is galvanized and consists of three sections that simply nest for about a 10 foot overlap. Of course, it takes a crane to assemble. Remember, I said if money is not a concern...but it does look very nice and serious and professional. Climbing it is not for the faint of heart, believe me! Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 1:08 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
It may not be a problem where you are, but I should think that lightning might come to mind. Do you really want your GPS antenna up very high? -Chuck Harris Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast http://www.3starinc.com/rohn_telescopic_masts.html I don't know this vendor just the first that came up in google. Stanley - Original Message From: Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 7:46:00 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 9/2/2010 7:46 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. How far up do you need to go? Do you need to clear dense trees or lots of adjacent buildings, and if so, how high are they? If you get about all nearby structure and obstructions you need to start thinking about lightning protection in a vary serious way. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. The definition of heavy snow and ice is very regionally dependent. I'm in the DFW are and heavy = any. I used to live in Laramie and worked on mountaintop radios where heavy was measured in feet. Where are you? Likewise the structure required to support survivability is heavily dependent on worst case ice load and height. 110 mph/50 m/s isn't that hard for a few feet of pipe clamped securely to a structure to survive. Even ice load isn't much of a factor as it's more structural than load for a small antenna and short pipe at some point . Falling ice clears all bets. Literally. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Most of the telecom targeted antennas are made to screw on to 3/4 or 1 water pipe with the feedline in the pipe. Typical application is either: 1. A short (1 - 2 foot) piece of rigid conduit of the correct size is fit to the shelter with a sweep bend to feed the antenna feedline directly into the building. These are often not clamped at all, though frequently clamped to an eave. 2. A short (1 - 3 foot) piece is clamped to a larger mast and a longer feedline is run into the building. Thanks, Charles I suspect you may be over thinking this and a foot or two of pipe on an appropriately located eave will do fine. If you need to go on a chimney, get a chimney strap kit and four feet of pipe sized to fit the antenna. Strap it at points two or three feet apart. -- mailto:o...@ozindfw.net Oz POB 93167 Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
I was just about to suggest a ham antenna tower. The triangular truss design is very rigid, yet presents low wind loading. I think there are application notes that help with siting and selection. Rohn is a very standard and pretty well respected name in the business. They also have a good selection of accessories. In this area, I see them at ham fleas on a regular basis. FWIW, -John === ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast http://www.3starinc.com/rohn_telescopic_masts.html I don't know this vendor just the first that came up in google. Stanley - Original Message From: Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 7:46:00 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Hi There are a lot of chimney mount antenna supports. They should get you up 6 feet above the top of the chimney. Simple to install and pretty cheap. Bob On Sep 2, 2010, at 8:46 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Picked that one as it fit the 3 wide request and is UPS shippable. The brackets and ground plate were also available. Stanley - Original Message From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 8:25:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast I was just about to suggest a ham antenna tower. The triangular truss design is very rigid, yet presents low wind loading. I think there are application notes that help with siting and selection. Rohn is a very standard and pretty well respected name in the business. They also have a good selection of accessories. In this area, I see them at ham fleas on a regular basis. FWIW, -John === ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast http://www.3starinc.com/rohn_telescopic_masts.html I don't know this vendor just the first that came up in google. Stanley - Original Message From: Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 7:46:00 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Hello Charles, Last September I had some roof work done and I had added 2 each 1-1/2 vent pipe penetrations just below the ridge. Now I have a place to add the GPS antenna, either a hockey puck type or a more sophisticated one. The hockey puck was added to a length of PVC conduit to penetrate the gland The GPS antenna is just level with the roof ridge, for no blockage. Previously I used a MS-44 aluminum military masting tripod tower to put the GPS antenna just above the gutter height ~ 11' high. The rest of your questions I would have to find a PE. Stan, W1LE On 9/2/2010 8:46 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Make sure you are sitting down when you check the shipping charges. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com Sent: Sep 2, 2010 9:16 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast http://www.3starinc.com/rohn_telescopic_masts.html I don't know this vendor just the first that came up in google. Stanley - Original Message From: Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 7:46:00 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
$32.61 for me but maybe you are further away, heavy stuff, maybe it would pay to shop for a closer vendor. Stanley - Original Message From: Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 8:49:24 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast Make sure you are sitting down when you check the shipping charges. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com Sent: Sep 2, 2010 9:16 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast http://www.3starinc.com/rohn_telescopic_masts.html I don't know this vendor just the first that came up in google. Stanley - Original Message From: Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 7:46:00 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
I've a Symmetricom(HP) 58532A antenna on a six foot mast -- T6061 aluminum schedule 40 pipe. Not as cheap as cast schedule 40 from the home store, but a lot lighter! The previous mast was a length of cheezy Radio Shack antenna mast -- thin wall stuff. The mount for the 58532A wanted larger diameter schedule 40. Oh, that mast also supports a Davis Instruments Vantage Pro2 weather package -- the GPS antenna is on the mast, which is between the rain collector bucket and the anemometer mast. The rain bucket is due south of the GPS antenna, and below the GPS antenna horizon. While the anemometer mast holds the anemometer assembly up a few inches, it's due north, so it's in the region where the GPS birds don't go anyway, and is below the elevation mask angle as well as the angle at which the birds appear. Life is full of compromises... We get very little snow and/or ice here, but usually have storms in the winter with 50+ MPH winds. A 10 foot stick of the cheezy thin wall held up the weather instruments for a number of seasons with no problems. The 58532A doesn't add appreciable cross section in comparison to the rain bucket. I don't anticipate problems with the larger diameter mast, and would expect a 10 foot length to be quite stable. T6061 aluminum is a favourite for antenna construction. (I went with the six foot length as it was available as scrap.) Separate 24 hour antenna surveys with the weather sensors six inches or so below the GPS antenna, and then with the weather sensors at their nominal operating height with respect to the GPS antenna did not show easily observable differences in tbolt operation. 73 de Bob K6RTM in Silicon Valley -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 20:46:00 -0400 From: Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com Subject: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 20100903004603.b222311b...@karen.lavabit.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
If your nearby houses and obstructions are not high, IE. if the houses there are single story, you may be able to get away with what I have done. Instead of fixing something on the house, I've attached a couple of antenna to the top of one of my washing line poles in the garden as this faces South (I'm in the Southern Hemisphere) and I get an average of 7-8 sats every day and up to 12 at night. It makes any maintenance easy, if you get any snow it is easy to clear at that height, there is much less windage if your subject to strong winds and, if you don't use your washing line, the size of the poles make them quite rigid so you don't suffer a lot of noise that you would high up on a thin pole. Just a thought. Steve On 3 September 2010 12:46, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Bob, Don't get me started on my Davis Instruments Vantage Pro 2 with BIRDS... and the rain bucket! ;) How many times have you cleaned yours out this year? Spiders and Wasps are the worst. But... unfortunately, my flag pole is now the weather station mount (wireless version) and it's too far away to mount my multiple GPS antennas. I run both Weather Display and VWS (and a LOT of other software for the weather station)... what are you running? Do you know of anyway to sync the timestamps of the weather station to a Thunderbolt? 73 Brice KA8MAV - Original Message - From: k6...@comcast.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast I've a Symmetricom(HP) 58532A antenna on a six foot mast -- T6061 aluminum schedule 40 pipe. Not as cheap as cast schedule 40 from the home store, but a lot lighter! The previous mast was a length of cheezy Radio Shack antenna mast -- thin wall stuff. The mount for the 58532A wanted larger diameter schedule 40. Oh, that mast also supports a Davis Instruments Vantage Pro2 weather package -- the GPS antenna is on the mast, which is between the rain collector bucket and the anemometer mast. The rain bucket is due south of the GPS antenna, and below the GPS antenna horizon. While the anemometer mast holds the anemometer assembly up a few inches, it's due north, so it's in the region where the GPS birds don't go anyway, and is below the elevation mask angle as well as the angle at which the birds appear. Life is full of compromises... We get very little snow and/or ice here, but usually have storms in the winter with 50+ MPH winds. A 10 foot stick of the cheezy thin wall held up the weather instruments for a number of seasons with no problems. The 58532A doesn't add appreciable cross section in comparison to the rain bucket. I don't anticipate problems with the larger diameter mast, and would expect a 10 foot length to be quite stable. T6061 aluminum is a favourite for antenna construction. (I went with the six foot length as it was available as scrap.) Separate 24 hour antenna surveys with the weather sensors six inches or so below the GPS antenna, and then with the weather sensors at their nominal operating height with respect to the GPS antenna did not show easily observable differences in tbolt operation. 73 de Bob K6RTM in Silicon Valley -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 20:46:00 -0400 From: Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com Subject: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 20100903004603.b222311b...@karen.lavabit.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
