Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
On 07/12/2010 02:15 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The original post simply mentioned EBU. Thus the confusion. I think they mean SMPTE 12M LTC. VITC would also be possible, and not completely without its merrits, but I doubt it. AES has not cranked out any synchronisation specs beyond the DARS in AES-11 (essentially an AES-3 with certain properties), and I don't recall that EBU specified any synchronisation protocols, where as both specify refer to timing relationships and SMPTE-12M. I hope nobody is considering MTC Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Hi The original post simply mentioned EBU. Thus the confusion. Bob On Jul 11, 2010, at 8:23 AM, "Ed, k1ggi" wrote: > Keep in mind, SMPTE/EBU is timecode, AES/EBU is digital audio. > 3 orders of magnitude difference in the bit rates. > Chris was talking timecode. > Ed > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Bob Camp > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:38 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying > > Hi > > The Thunderbolt has a GPS and an OCXO inside it. It's built in smarts align > a PPS created from the OCXO to the GPS PPS. This allows the PPS to be more > stable than a normal GPS PPS (less jitter). It also provides holdover on the > PPS if and when GPS sat's are not available. > > Since your ultimate objective is (I think) AES / EBU timing, jitter is an > important consideration. > > Bob > > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:10 AM, Chris H wrote: > >> I might go for the Garmin one to start with, and see how it all works.. >> and then move up to a more reliable source of timing source in the >> future... >> >> When you say Reliable, what exactly do you all mean--- >> does it loose time? >> Does it loose lock to the satellites? >> because it's only millisecond accurate, is that your concerns >> >> Please correct me if I am wrong: >> >> If it's pulsing every second, and that second is generated by the lock >> to the satellite, then should it not be as accurate as the device that >> it's getting it's lock from? >> >> (Sorry I am new to all this) >> >> >> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 19:02 +1200, Chris H wrote: >>> Yes sorry -- stratum 1 -- brain fart :( >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 06:32 +, Paul Nicholson wrote: >>>> Chris H wrote: >>>>> Would be good as a timing source for GPS >>>>> ... make a PC into a Stratum 0 timing device? >>>> >>>> I think it would count as stratum 1, since you are 1 hop >>>> away from a master time source. >>>> >>>> This page may be of interest, >>>> >>>> http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm >>>> >>>> Trimble Thunderbolts have been recommended on this list as a >>>> proper timing grade GPS, superior to these EOM Garmin GPS units. >>>> >>>> There's a reliable source of Thunderbolts on E-bay. I currently >>>> have one of these on order, >>>> >>>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/290322053618 >>>> -- >>>> Paul Nicholson >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Keep in mind, SMPTE/EBU is timecode, AES/EBU is digital audio. 3 orders of magnitude difference in the bit rates. Chris was talking timecode. Ed -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:38 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying Hi The Thunderbolt has a GPS and an OCXO inside it. It's built in smarts align a PPS created from the OCXO to the GPS PPS. This allows the PPS to be more stable than a normal GPS PPS (less jitter). It also provides holdover on the PPS if and when GPS sat's are not available. Since your ultimate objective is (I think) AES / EBU timing, jitter is an important consideration. Bob On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:10 AM, Chris H wrote: > I might go for the Garmin one to start with, and see how it all works.. > and then move up to a more reliable source of timing source in the > future... > > When you say Reliable, what exactly do you all mean--- > does it loose time? > Does it loose lock to the satellites? > because it's only millisecond accurate, is that your concerns > > Please correct me if I am wrong: > > If it's pulsing every second, and that second is generated by the lock > to the satellite, then should it not be as accurate as the device that > it's getting it's lock from? > > (Sorry I am new to all this) > > > On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 19:02 +1200, Chris H wrote: >> Yes sorry -- stratum 1 -- brain fart :( >> >> >> >> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 06:32 +, Paul Nicholson wrote: >>> Chris H wrote: >>>> Would be good as a timing source for GPS >>>> ... make a PC into a Stratum 0 timing device? >>> >>> I think it would count as stratum 1, since you are 1 hop >>> away from a master time source. >>> >>> This page may be of interest, >>> >>> http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm >>> >>> Trimble Thunderbolts have been recommended on this list as a >>> proper timing grade GPS, superior to these EOM Garmin GPS units. >>> >>> There's a reliable source of Thunderbolts on E-bay. I currently >>> have one of these on order, >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/290322053618 >>> -- >>> Paul Nicholson >>> -- >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Hello,Robert.. I have contacted you off list with regards to this : ) Thanks in advance... On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 11:41 +, Robert Atkinson wrote: > Hi Chris, > You need the LVC to make sure you have the 1PPS available. The PC may have it > in the cable but you can't be sure. The 18X is OK for NTP but a timing GPS in > position hold is better. > The Tbolt is good but has a ovened 10MHz oscillator that you don't need > unless you want to keep time when the GPS is down. The Trimble Palisade (now > Acutime2000) is designed for this application. > I can supply a used one for £50 but you need to be able to knock up a power > source and RS422 to 232 converter (probably not needed to the SPARC box). > Manual is here > http://www.dc2light.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Webpage/PALISADE-Manual.zip > > Robert G8RPI. > > > --- On Fri, 9/7/10, Chris H wrote: > > > From: Chris H > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > Date: Friday, 9 July, 2010, 8:54 > > > > > Which is the 18X and looking at the manual for it, it says it's 1pps with > > > 1 > > > microsecond accuracy. > > > > Yup. That URL is for the LVC version. The PC version is the one powered > > from a cigarette lighter. (Your first line above says PC when I assume you > > mean LVC.) > > Sorry -- I had book marked the PC version -- but when I noticed the LVC > version, I checked the website, and they have them with bare wire -- so > no plugs at all.. > > > > I am not really sure what to do -- and I have followed the mail list for a > > > while, but I think I might be looking in the wrong place... > > > > Did you check the URL I sent? And the ones at the bottom of that > > page? > > Yes -- that page looks fantastic, I am going to use that as my reference > guide :) when I actually get to put it all together... > > > Look at the picture, or get the manual from the Garmin web site. The LVC > > comes with a connector so they can test it. You cut it off and wire it to > > a > > DB-9 and supply power one of several ways. Then plug it into your serial > > port. > > > > > > > I perhaps need to join an NTP mail list .. > > http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions > > It's gatewayed to usenet:comp.protocols.time.ntp > > > > Check out the archives. > > > > > > > When you say 'more sensitive' what do you mean by that? > > > > Where are you going to put it? The GPS antenna is built into the > > hockey-puck. You need to get the antenna into a good-enough position. > > "more > > sensitive" means it's easier to find a location that's good enough to get a > > useful signal. > > > > Trees are bad. Houses are bad. Mine mostly works inside my house. It > > would > > work better if I put it outside. > > I guess they are weather proof. > Looking at the wiring diagram at the bottom of that page, it appears > (and correct me again if I am wrong) I can run it down CAT5 cable, and > 'i guess' that the 5meter limit on USB is just data, not power?? so Run > power down the CAT5 and bring the serial data back down as well - or I > might just need to put a power injector closer to the unit if I cant get > USB power that far as computers are about 20 - 30 meters from where the > best position is for the unit. > > It will be put on a pole on the edge of the house, that has full clear > coverage of the sky - where my Discone antenna sits :) - very little > trees from that angle and no houses close by :) > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Yeah the AES / EBU timing is just to sync clocks in house, it's not actually going to be used as a genlock source for equipment.. just slave clock displays... On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 08:38 -0400, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > The Thunderbolt has a GPS and an OCXO inside it. It's built in smarts align a > PPS created from the OCXO to the GPS PPS. This allows the PPS to be more > stable than a normal GPS PPS (less jitter). It also provides holdover on the > PPS if and when GPS sat's are not available. > > Since your ultimate objective is (I think) AES / EBU timing, jitter is an > important consideration. > > Bob > > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:10 AM, Chris H wrote: > > > I might go for the Garmin one to start with, and see how it all works.. > > and then move up to a more reliable source of timing source in the > > future... > > > > When you say Reliable, what exactly do you all mean--- > > does it loose time? > > Does it loose lock to the satellites? > > because it's only millisecond accurate, is that your concerns > > > > Please correct me if I am wrong: > > > > If it's pulsing every second, and that second is generated by the lock > > to the satellite, then should it not be as accurate as the device that > > it's getting it's lock from? > > > > (Sorry I am new to all this) > > > > > > On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 19:02 +1200, Chris H wrote: > >> Yes sorry -- stratum 1 -- brain fart :( > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 06:32 +, Paul Nicholson wrote: > >>> Chris H wrote: > Would be good as a timing source for GPS > ... make a PC into a Stratum 0 timing device? > >>> > >>> I think it would count as stratum 1, since you are 1 hop > >>> away from a master time source. > >>> > >>> This page may be of interest, > >>> > >>> http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm > >>> > >>> Trimble Thunderbolts have been recommended on this list as a > >>> proper timing grade GPS, superior to these EOM Garmin GPS units. > >>> > >>> There's a reliable source of Thunderbolts on E-bay. I currently > >>> have one of these on order, > >>> > >>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/290322053618 > >>> -- > >>> Paul Nicholson > >>> -- > >>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Hal (and everyone)
In television and radio broadcasting we use a time code that is a
Manchester-encoded 2000 bps (50 Hz countries) or 2400 bps (60 Hz
countries) signal which has been low-pass filtered (~7.5 KHz) so that
it can be directly recorded on an analogue audio track. "EBU" is the
"European Broadcasting Union", who collaborated with the US "SMPTE"
("Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers") to come up with
a common standard. The subtle difference between EBU and SMPTE
variants is that the latter is usually "drop-frame" so that a count of
29.97 Hz NTSC frames better keeps track of real time. Google "SMPTE
time code" for thousands of pages that will tell you more than you
ever wanted to know :-)
TTFN,
Peter (London, England)
On 9 July 2010 02:26, Hal Murray wrote:
>> EBU Timecode in LTC format (audio timecode)
>
> The NTP source code package includes a utility to make audio time codes.
> Look for tg2.c. I don't know what EBU is, but that code might be a good
> place to start.
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and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Hi The Thunderbolt has a GPS and an OCXO inside it. It's built in smarts align a PPS created from the OCXO to the GPS PPS. This allows the PPS to be more stable than a normal GPS PPS (less jitter). It also provides holdover on the PPS if and when GPS sat's are not available. Since your ultimate objective is (I think) AES / EBU timing, jitter is an important consideration. Bob On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:10 AM, Chris H wrote: > I might go for the Garmin one to start with, and see how it all works.. > and then move up to a more reliable source of timing source in the > future... > > When you say Reliable, what exactly do you all mean--- > does it loose time? > Does it loose lock to the satellites? > because it's only millisecond accurate, is that your concerns > > Please correct me if I am wrong: > > If it's pulsing every second, and that second is generated by the lock > to the satellite, then should it not be as accurate as the device that > it's getting it's lock from? > > (Sorry I am new to all this) > > > On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 19:02 +1200, Chris H wrote: >> Yes sorry -- stratum 1 -- brain fart :( >> >> >> >> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 06:32 +, Paul Nicholson wrote: >>> Chris H wrote: Would be good as a timing source for GPS ... make a PC into a Stratum 0 timing device? >>> >>> I think it would count as stratum 1, since you are 1 hop >>> away from a master time source. >>> >>> This page may be of interest, >>> >>> http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm >>> >>> Trimble Thunderbolts have been recommended on this list as a >>> proper timing grade GPS, superior to these EOM Garmin GPS units. >>> >>> There's a reliable source of Thunderbolts on E-bay. I currently >>> have one of these on order, >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/290322053618 >>> -- >>> Paul Nicholson >>> -- >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Also see http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/drivers/driver29.html For palisade & Tbolt NTP info. Robert G8RPI. --- On Fri, 9/7/10, Chris H wrote: From: Chris H Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Date: Friday, 9 July, 2010, 8:54 > > Which is the 18X and looking at the manual for it, it says it's 1pps with 1 > > microsecond accuracy. > > Yup. That URL is for the LVC version. The PC version is the one powered > from a cigarette lighter. (Your first line above says PC when I assume you > mean LVC.) Sorry -- I had book marked the PC version -- but when I noticed the LVC version, I checked the website, and they have them with bare wire -- so no plugs at all.. > > I am not really sure what to do -- and I have followed the mail list for a > > while, but I think I might be looking in the wrong place... > > Did you check the URL I sent? And the ones at the bottom of that > page? Yes -- that page looks fantastic, I am going to use that as my reference guide :) when I actually get to put it all together... > Look at the picture, or get the manual from the Garmin web site. The LVC > comes with a connector so they can test it. You cut it off and wire it to a > DB-9 and supply power one of several ways. Then plug it into your serial > port. > > > > I perhaps need to join an NTP mail list .. > http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions > It's gatewayed to usenet:comp.protocols.time.ntp > > Check out the archives. > > > > When you say 'more sensitive' what do you mean by that? > > Where are you going to put it? The GPS antenna is built into the > hockey-puck. You need to get the antenna into a good-enough position. "more > sensitive" means it's easier to find a location that's good enough to get a > useful signal. > > Trees are bad. Houses are bad. Mine mostly works inside my house. It would > work better if I put it outside. I guess they are weather proof. Looking at the wiring diagram at the bottom of that page, it appears (and correct me again if I am wrong) I can run it down CAT5 cable, and 'i guess' that the 5meter limit on USB is just data, not power?? so Run power down the CAT5 and bring the serial data back down as well - or I might just need to put a power injector closer to the unit if I cant get USB power that far as computers are about 20 - 30 meters from where the best position is for the unit. It will be put on a pole on the edge of the house, that has full clear coverage of the sky - where my Discone antenna sits :) - very little trees from that angle and no houses close by :) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Hi Chris, You need the LVC to make sure you have the 1PPS available. The PC may have it in the cable but you can't be sure. The 18X is OK for NTP but a timing GPS in position hold is better. The Tbolt is good but has a ovened 10MHz oscillator that you don't need unless you want to keep time when the GPS is down. The Trimble Palisade (now Acutime2000) is designed for this application. I can supply a used one for £50 but you need to be able to knock up a power source and RS422 to 232 converter (probably not needed to the SPARC box). Manual is here http://www.dc2light.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Webpage/PALISADE-Manual.zip Robert G8RPI. --- On Fri, 9/7/10, Chris H wrote: From: Chris H Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Date: Friday, 9 July, 2010, 8:54 > > Which is the 18X and looking at the manual for it, it says it's 1pps with 1 > > microsecond accuracy. > > Yup. That URL is for the LVC version. The PC version is the one powered > from a cigarette lighter. (Your first line above says PC when I assume you > mean LVC.) Sorry -- I had book marked the PC version -- but when I noticed the LVC version, I checked the website, and they have them with bare wire -- so no plugs at all.. > > I am not really sure what to do -- and I have followed the mail list for a > > while, but I think I might be looking in the wrong place... > > Did you check the URL I sent? And the ones at the bottom of that > page? Yes -- that page looks fantastic, I am going to use that as my reference guide :) when I actually get to put it all together... > Look at the picture, or get the manual from the Garmin web site. The LVC > comes with a connector so they can test it. You cut it off and wire it to a > DB-9 and supply power one of several ways. Then plug it into your serial > port. > > > > I perhaps need to join an NTP mail list .. > http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions > It's gatewayed to usenet:comp.protocols.time.ntp > > Check out the archives. > > > > When you say 'more sensitive' what do you mean by that? > > Where are you going to put it? The GPS antenna is built into the > hockey-puck. You need to get the antenna into a good-enough position. "more > sensitive" means it's easier to find a location that's good enough to get a > useful signal. > > Trees are bad. Houses are bad. Mine mostly works inside my house. It would > work better if I put it outside. I guess they are weather proof. Looking at the wiring diagram at the bottom of that page, it appears (and correct me again if I am wrong) I can run it down CAT5 cable, and 'i guess' that the 5meter limit on USB is just data, not power?? so Run power down the CAT5 and bring the serial data back down as well - or I might just need to put a power injector closer to the unit if I cant get USB power that far as computers are about 20 - 30 meters from where the best position is for the unit. It will be put on a pole on the edge of the house, that has full clear coverage of the sky - where my Discone antenna sits :) - very little trees from that angle and no houses close by :) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
> > Which is the 18X and looking at the manual for it, it says it's 1pps with 1 > > microsecond accuracy. > > Yup. That URL is for the LVC version. The PC version is the one powered > from a cigarette lighter. (Your first line above says PC when I assume you > mean LVC.) Sorry -- I had book marked the PC version -- but when I noticed the LVC version, I checked the website, and they have them with bare wire -- so no plugs at all.. > > I am not really sure what to do -- and I have followed the mail list for a > > while, but I think I might be looking in the wrong place... > > Did you check the URL I sent? And the ones at the bottom of that > page? Yes -- that page looks fantastic, I am going to use that as my reference guide :) when I actually get to put it all together... > Look at the picture, or get the manual from the Garmin web site. The LVC > comes with a connector so they can test it. You cut it off and wire it to a > DB-9 and supply power one of several ways. Then plug it into your serial > port. > > > > I perhaps need to join an NTP mail list .. > http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions > It's gatewayed to usenet:comp.protocols.time.ntp > > Check out the archives. > > > > When you say 'more sensitive' what do you mean by that? > > Where are you going to put it? The GPS antenna is built into the > hockey-puck. You need to get the antenna into a good-enough position. "more > sensitive" means it's easier to find a location that's good enough to get a > useful signal. > > Trees are bad. Houses are bad. Mine mostly works inside my house. It would > work better if I put it outside. I guess they are weather proof. Looking at the wiring diagram at the bottom of that page, it appears (and correct me again if I am wrong) I can run it down CAT5 cable, and 'i guess' that the 5meter limit on USB is just data, not power?? so Run power down the CAT5 and bring the serial data back down as well - or I might just need to put a power injector closer to the unit if I cant get USB power that far as computers are about 20 - 30 meters from where the best position is for the unit. It will be put on a pole on the edge of the house, that has full clear coverage of the sky - where my Discone antenna sits :) - very little trees from that angle and no houses close by :) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
ch...@archnetnz.com said: > I found this one: Garmin GPS 18 PC GPS Engine > http://www.triginstruments.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1301&os > Csid=b80759ac903096c20d806ddeb3d71121 > Which is the 18X and looking at the manual for it, it says it's 1pps with 1 > microsecond accuracy. Yup. That URL is for the LVC version. The PC version is the one powered from a cigarette lighter. (Your first line above says PC when I assume you mean LVC.) > I am not really sure what to do -- and I have followed the mail list for a > while, but I think I might be looking in the wrong place... Did you check the URL I sent? And the ones at the bottom of that page? Look at the picture, or get the manual from the Garmin web site. The LVC comes with a connector so they can test it. You cut it off and wire it to a DB-9 and supply power one of several ways. Then plug it into your serial port. > I perhaps need to join an NTP mail list .. http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions It's gatewayed to usenet:comp.protocols.time.ntp Check out the archives. > When you say 'more sensitive' what do you mean by that? Where are you going to put it? The GPS antenna is built into the hockey-puck. You need to get the antenna into a good-enough position. "more sensitive" means it's easier to find a location that's good enough to get a useful signal. Trees are bad. Houses are bad. Mine mostly works inside my house. It would work better if I put it outside. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
I might go for the Garmin one to start with, and see how it all works.. and then move up to a more reliable source of timing source in the future... When you say Reliable, what exactly do you all mean--- does it loose time? Does it loose lock to the satellites? because it's only millisecond accurate, is that your concerns Please correct me if I am wrong: If it's pulsing every second, and that second is generated by the lock to the satellite, then should it not be as accurate as the device that it's getting it's lock from? (Sorry I am new to all this) On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 19:02 +1200, Chris H wrote: > Yes sorry -- stratum 1 -- brain fart :( > > > > On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 06:32 +, Paul Nicholson wrote: > > Chris H wrote: > > > Would be good as a timing source for GPS > > > ... make a PC into a Stratum 0 timing device? > > > > I think it would count as stratum 1, since you are 1 hop > > away from a master time source. > > > > This page may be of interest, > > > > http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm > > > > Trimble Thunderbolts have been recommended on this list as a > > proper timing grade GPS, superior to these EOM Garmin GPS units. > > > > There's a reliable source of Thunderbolts on E-bay. I currently > > have one of these on order, > > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/290322053618 > > -- > > Paul Nicholson > > -- > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Yes sorry -- stratum 1 -- brain fart :( On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 06:32 +, Paul Nicholson wrote: > Chris H wrote: > > Would be good as a timing source for GPS > > ... make a PC into a Stratum 0 timing device? > > I think it would count as stratum 1, since you are 1 hop > away from a master time source. > > This page may be of interest, > > http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm > > Trimble Thunderbolts have been recommended on this list as a > proper timing grade GPS, superior to these EOM Garmin GPS units. > > There's a reliable source of Thunderbolts on E-bay. I currently > have one of these on order, > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/290322053618 > -- > Paul Nicholson > -- > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Chris H wrote: > Would be good as a timing source for GPS > ... make a PC into a Stratum 0 timing device? I think it would count as stratum 1, since you are 1 hop away from a master time source. This page may be of interest, http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm Trimble Thunderbolts have been recommended on this list as a proper timing grade GPS, superior to these EOM Garmin GPS units. There's a reliable source of Thunderbolts on E-bay. I currently have one of these on order, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/290322053618 -- Paul Nicholson -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
> I was just wondering if the following product: > http://www.triginstruments.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1302&os > Csid=b80759ac903096c20d806ddeb3d71121 That's a Garming GPS-18 PC, the version that gets power from a cigarette lighter. (What are they called now that lots of people don't smoke?) > Would be good as a timing source for GPS -- does it have the necessary > outputs and information out the serial interface to make a PC into a Stratum > 0 timing device? What do you mean by "stratum 0"? I'm assuming you mean for use with ntpd. The telephone industry has a different meaning. There are two quirks in this area. One is that the GPS-18 has been updated to the GPS-18x. It's much more sensitive. The other is to be sure to get a version with a PPS. In particular, the USB version doesn't have it. Lots of people use the GPS-18-LVC with ntpd. Info here: http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/ConfiguringGarminRefclocks You have to provide power. "Some assembly required.", but it's not a big deal if you know how to drive a soldering iron. There are a couple of good links at the bottom of that URL above. > Make a linux box into a master time source... It says I need windows XP and > things, or is that just to configure and check connectivity.. Lots of people use the GPS-18-LVC without windows. > EBU Timecode in LTC format (audio timecode) The NTP source code package includes a utility to make audio time codes. Look for tg2.c. I don't know what EBU is, but that code might be a good place to start. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Hi Thunderbolts show up regularly on eBay for $60 plus about $25 in shipping. There are standard NTP drivers that appear to work ok with them. Bob On Jul 8, 2010, at 9:15 PM, Chris H wrote: > Just quoted $1,000+ USD for the thunderbolt.. so not really the sort of > money I want to spend on this little project :) > > On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 20:45 -0400, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> For less money, you can get a Thunderbolt on the e-place. It will get you a >> lot closer to your goal while not making it to Stratum-0. >> >> Bob >> >> On Jul 8, 2010, at 8:42 PM, Chris H wrote: >> >>> (Whoops will post from the correct address this time) >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I was just wondering if the following product: >>> >>> http://www.triginstruments.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1302&osCsid=b80759ac903096c20d806ddeb3d71121 >>> >>> >>> Would be good as a timing source for GPS -- does it have the necessary >>> outputs and information out the serial interface to make a PC into a >>> Stratum 0 timing device? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for your advice, comments and suggestions :) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Just quoted $1,000+ USD for the thunderbolt.. so not really the sort of money I want to spend on this little project :) On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 20:45 -0400, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > For less money, you can get a Thunderbolt on the e-place. It will get you a > lot closer to your goal while not making it to Stratum-0. > > Bob > > On Jul 8, 2010, at 8:42 PM, Chris H wrote: > > > (Whoops will post from the correct address this time) > > > > Hello, > > > > I was just wondering if the following product: > > > > http://www.triginstruments.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1302&osCsid=b80759ac903096c20d806ddeb3d71121 > > > > > > Would be good as a timing source for GPS -- does it have the necessary > > outputs and information out the serial interface to make a PC into a > > Stratum 0 timing device? > > > > Thanks in advance for your advice, comments and suggestions :) > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
(That Price was New Zealand Dollars) I ideally would like to really do one of two things... EBU Timecode in LTC format (audio timecode) or Make a linux box into a master time source... It says I need windows XP and things, or is that just to configure and check connectivity.. I have a Sun Ultra10 waiting with serial port to turn into an NTP server :) On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 20:45 -0400, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > For less money, you can get a Thunderbolt on the e-place. It will get you a > lot closer to your goal while not making it to Stratum-0. > > Bob > > On Jul 8, 2010, at 8:42 PM, Chris H wrote: > > > (Whoops will post from the correct address this time) > > > > Hello, > > > > I was just wondering if the following product: > > > > http://www.triginstruments.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1302&osCsid=b80759ac903096c20d806ddeb3d71121 > > > > > > Would be good as a timing source for GPS -- does it have the necessary > > outputs and information out the serial interface to make a PC into a > > Stratum 0 timing device? > > > > Thanks in advance for your advice, comments and suggestions :) > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Hi For less money, you can get a Thunderbolt on the e-place. It will get you a lot closer to your goal while not making it to Stratum-0. Bob On Jul 8, 2010, at 8:42 PM, Chris H wrote: > (Whoops will post from the correct address this time) > > Hello, > > I was just wondering if the following product: > > http://www.triginstruments.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1302&osCsid=b80759ac903096c20d806ddeb3d71121 > > > Would be good as a timing source for GPS -- does it have the necessary > outputs and information out the serial interface to make a PC into a > Stratum 0 timing device? > > Thanks in advance for your advice, comments and suggestions :) > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
