Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

2013-12-14 Thread Jamieson (Jim) Rowe

Hi Bob,

Thanks for that tip. I have tweaked C217 a bit already, but I'll try again 
in the hope that it'll finally do the trick. By the way, which is the 
correct direction to push the frequency up a tad -- clockwise or 
anticlockwise?  I think I tried antclockwise the first time...


All the best for the festive season.
Jim Rowe


-Original Message- 
From: Bob Camp

Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:14 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

Hi

One thing it could be is the VCXO not quite making it above 10MHz for long 
enough to lock. I’d tweak the cap to move it up and see what happens.


Bob

On Dec 13, 2013, at 8:49 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:


Jim
unlike older Rb's there is very little analog in the unit. It  is sweeping
trough its lock range so maybe you may find something around the  lamp. 
The

lamp should not be the problem because the 5680 has not been around  and
been operating for extensive time before pulled.
How ever I like to caution time nuts and be careful who they  buy from, I
did have a bad experience with one vendor and I did post it  previously.
False claim of new and when returned after return authorization  refused 
refund
since I refused to give a 5 star rating. I forwarded the emails  to ebay 
and

they did nothing. So any time nut that buys from ggg* fitting  deserves
what he is getting. We have other sources out there that time nuts have 
good

experiences with and with the price increasing by a factor of 4 one should
be careful. Personally I do not think they are worse the price
Bert Kehren Miami


In a message dated 12/12/2013 4:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jimr...@optusnet.com.au writes:

Hi,

I’m  an elderly time-nut newby, and I’ve already struck trouble with a
used FE-5680  Rb-vapour reference
I bought via eBay. It runs (from +16V and +5V), and the  current drain
starts at 1.75A and then drops over
5 minutes or so down to  about 650mA. But it won’t lock, even if I leave 
it

powered up for a few hours  (with a fan
to keep it from getting too hot).

The output frequency  just keeps switching up and down between about
850Hz and 1080Hz, with  a bit of ‘lingering’
near each end. And of course the ‘lock’ output at pin  3 stays stubbornly
at about 4.35V.

To my newby brain, this sounds like  the problem is either in the Rb lamp
(too dark, perhaps), or
else in the  photodetector and buffer, etc, forming the ‘dip detector’
part of the feedback  loop.

Could one of you much-more-experienced time-nutters tell me if my
diagnosis sounds right?

Also, I’ve found a schematic for the digital  sections of the FE-5680A in
your archives, kindly drawn up
by one of your  very experienced members, but has anyone done a similar
schematic for the  ‘analog’
sections?  I suspect I’m going to have to work out for  myself  where to
test for a fault in these
sections. There’s also a  bit of a mystery (in my mind, at least) 
regarding

that little 2-pin SIL  header
just near the Rb lamp, on the top of the PCB. Anyone know what  that’s 
for?


All the best in anticipation, folks.

Jim  Rowe
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Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

2013-12-14 Thread Jamieson (Jim) Rowe

Hi Bert,

Thank you too for your tips and suggestions. I thought there might be 'some' 
analog circuitry in the 5680A, because the photodetector output from the 
'far end' of the Rb resonance cavity probably needs some amplification, 
before its 'strong enough' to be fed into an A-to-D converter. In any case 
the schematic I found in the time-nuts archive doesn't seem to include 
anything in the 'physics package' -- the Rb lamp oscillator, the microwave 
oscillator feeding the resonance cavity, the photodetector and its output 
amplifier or whatever. So it looks as if I'm going to have to search around 
in that area myself...


Anyway Bert, thanks again and all the best for the festive season.

Jim Rowe
Sydney, Australia

-Original Message- 
From: ewkeh...@aol.com

Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:49 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

Jim
unlike older Rb's there is very little analog in the unit. It  is sweeping
trough its lock range so maybe you may find something around the  lamp. The
lamp should not be the problem because the 5680 has not been around  and
been operating for extensive time before pulled.
How ever I like to caution time nuts and be careful who they  buy from, I
did have a bad experience with one vendor and I did post it  previously.
False claim of new and when returned after return authorization  refused 
refund

since I refused to give a 5 star rating. I forwarded the emails  to ebay and
they did nothing. So any time nut that buys from ggg* fitting  deserves
what he is getting. We have other sources out there that time nuts have 
good

experiences with and with the price increasing by a factor of 4 one should
be careful. Personally I do not think they are worse the price
Bert Kehren Miami


In a message dated 12/12/2013 4:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jimr...@optusnet.com.au writes:

Hi,

I’m  an elderly time-nut newby, and I’ve already struck trouble with a
used FE-5680  Rb-vapour reference
I bought via eBay. It runs (from +16V and +5V), and the  current drain
starts at 1.75A and then drops over
5 minutes or so down to  about 650mA. But it won’t lock, even if I leave it
powered up for a few hours  (with a fan
to keep it from getting too hot).

The output frequency  just keeps switching up and down between about
850Hz and 1080Hz, with  a bit of ‘lingering’
near each end. And of course the ‘lock’ output at pin  3 stays stubbornly
at about 4.35V.

To my newby brain, this sounds like  the problem is either in the Rb lamp
(too dark, perhaps), or
else in the  photodetector and buffer, etc, forming the ‘dip detector’
part of the feedback  loop.

Could one of you much-more-experienced time-nutters tell me if my
diagnosis sounds right?

Also, I’ve found a schematic for the digital  sections of the FE-5680A in
your archives, kindly drawn up
by one of your  very experienced members, but has anyone done a similar
schematic for the  ‘analog’
sections?  I suspect I’m going to have to work out for  myself  where to
test for a fault in these
sections. There’s also a  bit of a mystery (in my mind, at least) regarding
that little 2-pin SIL  header
just near the Rb lamp, on the top of the PCB. Anyone know what  that’s for?

All the best in anticipation, folks.

Jim  Rowe
___
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Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

2013-12-14 Thread Jamieson (Jim) Rowe

Hi Paul,

Thanks for those helpful comments. You have certainly pointed me in the 
right

directions, I suspect.

Best wishes for the Festive Season.
Jim Rowe


-Original Message- 
From: paul swed

Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 10:10 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

Jim
I can add some info here. What you suggest is a reasonable conclusion. On
some RB modules but I do not believe on the FE-5680s there is a true lamp
voltage and its very helpful in determining if the lamps old enough that as
you say its dark.
On those units if you are below 4 volts approx you know the reference is
pretty old.
I want to be careful here because someone will say But I have one that
works at 2 volts. :-)
But that said there are any numbers of failures that will create the issue
you could be seeing. There is a modulation signal typically in the 137 hz
range and 274 Hz. There is the RF at 6.8 Ghz or so and lastly the rf that
excites the RB lamp. Any of these things can be wrong and the system will
not achieve lock. If its weak the lamp may glow but essentially run cool in
color temperature.
But at this point I can say there are indeed really great eperts on here
that can give you better guidance.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Jamieson (Jim) Rowe 
jimr...@optusnet.com.au wrote:


Hi,

I’m an elderly time-nut newby, and I’ve already struck trouble with a used
FE-5680 Rb-vapour reference
I bought via eBay. It runs (from +16V and +5V), and the current drain
starts at 1.75A and then drops over
5 minutes or so down to about 650mA. But it won’t lock, even if I leave it
powered up for a few hours (with a fan
to keep it from getting too hot).

The output frequency just keeps switching up and down between about
850Hz and 1080Hz, with a bit of ‘lingering’
near each end. And of course the ‘lock’ output at pin 3 stays stubbornly
at about 4.35V.

To my newby brain, this sounds like the problem is either in the Rb lamp
(too dark, perhaps), or
else in the photodetector and buffer, etc, forming the ‘dip detector’ part
of the feedback loop.

Could one of you much-more-experienced time-nutters tell me if my
diagnosis sounds right?

Also, I’ve found a schematic for the digital sections of the FE-5680A in
your archives, kindly drawn up
by one of your very experienced members, but has anyone done a similar
schematic for the ‘analog’
sections?  I suspect I’m going to have to work out for myself  where to
test for a fault in these
sections. There’s also a bit of a mystery (in my mind, at least) regarding
that little 2-pin SIL header
just near the Rb lamp, on the top of the PCB. Anyone know what that’s for?

All the best in anticipation, folks.

Jim Rowe
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Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

2013-12-14 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

If I remember it’s a half turn trimmer. The “right” direction will depend on 
where they left it …

If it’s multi turn then the answer is counterclockwise. 

Best to simply watch the result on a counter.

Bob

On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:09 PM, Jamieson (Jim) Rowe jimr...@optusnet.com.au 
wrote:

 Hi Bob,
 
 Thanks for that tip. I have tweaked C217 a bit already, but I'll try again in 
 the hope that it'll finally do the trick. By the way, which is the correct 
 direction to push the frequency up a tad -- clockwise or anticlockwise?  I 
 think I tried antclockwise the first time...
 
 All the best for the festive season.
 Jim Rowe
 
 
 -Original Message- From: Bob Camp
 Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:14 AM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?
 
 Hi
 
 One thing it could be is the VCXO not quite making it above 10MHz for long 
 enough to lock. I’d tweak the cap to move it up and see what happens.
 
 Bob
 
 On Dec 13, 2013, at 8:49 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
 
 Jim
 unlike older Rb's there is very little analog in the unit. It  is sweeping
 trough its lock range so maybe you may find something around the  lamp. The
 lamp should not be the problem because the 5680 has not been around  and
 been operating for extensive time before pulled.
 How ever I like to caution time nuts and be careful who they  buy from, I
 did have a bad experience with one vendor and I did post it  previously.
 False claim of new and when returned after return authorization  refused 
 refund
 since I refused to give a 5 star rating. I forwarded the emails  to ebay and
 they did nothing. So any time nut that buys from ggg* fitting  deserves
 what he is getting. We have other sources out there that time nuts have good
 experiences with and with the price increasing by a factor of 4 one should
 be careful. Personally I do not think they are worse the price
 Bert Kehren Miami
 
 
 In a message dated 12/12/2013 4:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
 jimr...@optusnet.com.au writes:
 
 Hi,
 
 I’m  an elderly time-nut newby, and I’ve already struck trouble with a
 used FE-5680  Rb-vapour reference
 I bought via eBay. It runs (from +16V and +5V), and the  current drain
 starts at 1.75A and then drops over
 5 minutes or so down to  about 650mA. But it won’t lock, even if I leave it
 powered up for a few hours  (with a fan
 to keep it from getting too hot).
 
 The output frequency  just keeps switching up and down between about
 850Hz and 1080Hz, with  a bit of ‘lingering’
 near each end. And of course the ‘lock’ output at pin  3 stays stubbornly
 at about 4.35V.
 
 To my newby brain, this sounds like  the problem is either in the Rb lamp
 (too dark, perhaps), or
 else in the  photodetector and buffer, etc, forming the ‘dip detector’
 part of the feedback  loop.
 
 Could one of you much-more-experienced time-nutters tell me if my
 diagnosis sounds right?
 
 Also, I’ve found a schematic for the digital  sections of the FE-5680A in
 your archives, kindly drawn up
 by one of your  very experienced members, but has anyone done a similar
 schematic for the  ‘analog’
 sections?  I suspect I’m going to have to work out for  myself  where to
 test for a fault in these
 sections. There’s also a  bit of a mystery (in my mind, at least) regarding
 that little 2-pin SIL  header
 just near the Rb lamp, on the top of the PCB. Anyone know what  that’s for?
 
 All the best in anticipation, folks.
 
 Jim  Rowe
 ___
 time-nuts mailing  list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the  instructions there.
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

2013-12-14 Thread ewkehren
One thing you also should do is set the tuning, even if it sweeps through 10 
MHz if outside the lock range it will not lock. I have seen it.
Bert




Sent from Samsung tabletJamieson (Jim) Rowe jimr...@optusnet.com.au 
wrote:Hi Bert,

Thank you too for your tips and suggestions. I thought there might be 'some' 
analog circuitry in the 5680A, because the photodetector output from the 
'far end' of the Rb resonance cavity probably needs some amplification, 
before its 'strong enough' to be fed into an A-to-D converter. In any case 
the schematic I found in the time-nuts archive doesn't seem to include 
anything in the 'physics package' -- the Rb lamp oscillator, the microwave 
oscillator feeding the resonance cavity, the photodetector and its output 
amplifier or whatever. So it looks as if I'm going to have to search around 
in that area myself...

Anyway Bert, thanks again and all the best for the festive season.

Jim Rowe
Sydney, Australia

-Original Message- 
From: ewkeh...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:49 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

Jim
unlike older Rb's there is very little analog in the unit. It  is sweeping
trough its lock range so maybe you may find something around the  lamp. The
lamp should not be the problem because the 5680 has not been around  and
been operating for extensive time before pulled.
How ever I like to caution time nuts and be careful who they  buy from, I
did have a bad experience with one vendor and I did post it  previously.
False claim of new and when returned after return authorization  refused 
refund
since I refused to give a 5 star rating. I forwarded the emails  to ebay and
they did nothing. So any time nut that buys from ggg* fitting  deserves
what he is getting. We have other sources out there that time nuts have 
good
experiences with and with the price increasing by a factor of 4 one should
be careful. Personally I do not think they are worse the price
Bert Kehren Miami


In a message dated 12/12/2013 4:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jimr...@optusnet.com.au writes:

Hi,

I’m  an elderly time-nut newby, and I’ve already struck trouble with a
used FE-5680  Rb-vapour reference
I bought via eBay. It runs (from +16V and +5V), and the  current drain
starts at 1.75A and then drops over
5 minutes or so down to  about 650mA. But it won’t lock, even if I leave it
powered up for a few hours  (with a fan
to keep it from getting too hot).

The output frequency  just keeps switching up and down between about
850Hz and 1080Hz, with  a bit of ‘lingering’
near each end. And of course the ‘lock’ output at pin  3 stays stubbornly
at about 4.35V.

To my newby brain, this sounds like  the problem is either in the Rb lamp
(too dark, perhaps), or
else in the  photodetector and buffer, etc, forming the ‘dip detector’
part of the feedback  loop.

Could one of you much-more-experienced time-nutters tell me if my
diagnosis sounds right?

Also, I’ve found a schematic for the digital  sections of the FE-5680A in
your archives, kindly drawn up
by one of your  very experienced members, but has anyone done a similar
schematic for the  ‘analog’
sections?  I suspect I’m going to have to work out for  myself  where to
test for a fault in these
sections. There’s also a  bit of a mystery (in my mind, at least) regarding
that little 2-pin SIL  header
just near the Rb lamp, on the top of the PCB. Anyone know what  that’s for?

All the best in anticipation, folks.

Jim  Rowe
___
time-nuts mailing  list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 113, Issue 34

2013-12-14 Thread Stan
Hi Corby,

My 5065A is s/n 2816A01565 so technically I don't meet the conditions of
your query, but I'm still curious what it is that you're looking for!

Regards,
Stan

-
Well it's that time again to ask HP 5065A owners if they have early or late
SN units.

If you have a unit with a SN below 916-00181 or above 2816A01697  please let
me know.

Merry Christmas and an accurate 1PPS to all!

Corby



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Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

2013-12-14 Thread EB4APL

Jim,

I also found my notes for other unit.  It sweeps from 9.9997414 to 
10.493 and also locks in 3 minutes.


Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL



On 15/12/2013 2:26, EB4APL wrote:

Jim,

My unit, according to my notes, sweeps between 9.999766 MHz and 
10.56 MHz and locks in 3 minutes from cold start.  Maybe you have 
to move the frequency a bit towards the low side.


Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL


On 15/12/2013 0:27, ewkehren wrote:
One thing you also should do is set the tuning, even if it sweeps 
through 10 MHz if outside the lock range it will not lock. I have 
seen it.

Bert




Sent from Samsung tabletJamieson (Jim) Rowe 
jimr...@optusnet.com.au wrote:Hi Bert,


Thank you too for your tips and suggestions. I thought there might be 
'some'

analog circuitry in the 5680A, because the photodetector output from the
'far end' of the Rb resonance cavity probably needs some amplification,
before its 'strong enough' to be fed into an A-to-D converter. In any 
case

the schematic I found in the time-nuts archive doesn't seem to include
anything in the 'physics package' -- the Rb lamp oscillator, the 
microwave
oscillator feeding the resonance cavity, the photodetector and its 
output
amplifier or whatever. So it looks as if I'm going to have to search 
around

in that area myself...

Anyway Bert, thanks again and all the best for the festive season.

Jim Rowe
Sydney, Australia

-Original Message-
From: ewkeh...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:49 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an 
FE-5680A?


Jim
unlike older Rb's there is very little analog in the unit. It is 
sweeping
trough its lock range so maybe you may find something around the  
lamp. The

lamp should not be the problem because the 5680 has not been around  and
been operating for extensive time before pulled.
How ever I like to caution time nuts and be careful who they buy from, I
did have a bad experience with one vendor and I did post it previously.
False claim of new and when returned after return authorization refused
refund
since I refused to give a 5 star rating. I forwarded the emails to 
ebay and

they did nothing. So any time nut that buys from ggg* fitting deserves
what he is getting. We have other sources out there that time nuts have
good
experiences with and with the price increasing by a factor of 4 one 
should

be careful. Personally I do not think they are worse the price
Bert Kehren Miami


In a message dated 12/12/2013 4:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jimr...@optusnet.com.au writes:

Hi,

I’m  an elderly time-nut newby, and I’ve already struck trouble with a
used FE-5680  Rb-vapour reference
I bought via eBay. It runs (from +16V and +5V), and the  current drain
starts at 1.75A and then drops over
5 minutes or so down to  about 650mA. But it won’t lock, even if I 
leave it

powered up for a few hours  (with a fan
to keep it from getting too hot).

The output frequency  just keeps switching up and down between about
850Hz and 1080Hz, with  a bit of ‘lingering’
near each end. And of course the ‘lock’ output at pin  3 stays 
stubbornly

at about 4.35V.

To my newby brain, this sounds like  the problem is either in the Rb 
lamp

(too dark, perhaps), or
else in the  photodetector and buffer, etc, forming the ‘dip detector’
part of the feedback  loop.

Could one of you much-more-experienced time-nutters tell me if my
diagnosis sounds right?

Also, I’ve found a schematic for the digital  sections of the 
FE-5680A in

your archives, kindly drawn up
by one of your  very experienced members, but has anyone done a similar
schematic for the  ‘analog’
sections?  I suspect I’m going to have to work out for  myself where to
test for a fault in these
sections. There’s also a  bit of a mystery (in my mind, at least) 
regarding

that little 2-pin SIL  header
just near the Rb lamp, on the top of the PCB. Anyone know what that’s 
for?


All the best in anticipation, folks.

Jim  Rowe


___
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

2013-12-14 Thread EB4APL

Jim,

My unit, according to my notes, sweeps between 9.999766 MHz and 
10.56 MHz and locks in 3 minutes from cold start.  Maybe you have to 
move the frequency a bit towards the low side.


Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL


On 15/12/2013 0:27, ewkehren wrote:

One thing you also should do is set the tuning, even if it sweeps through 10 
MHz if outside the lock range it will not lock. I have seen it.
Bert




Sent from Samsung tabletJamieson (Jim) Rowe jimr...@optusnet.com.au 
wrote:Hi Bert,

Thank you too for your tips and suggestions. I thought there might be 'some'
analog circuitry in the 5680A, because the photodetector output from the
'far end' of the Rb resonance cavity probably needs some amplification,
before its 'strong enough' to be fed into an A-to-D converter. In any case
the schematic I found in the time-nuts archive doesn't seem to include
anything in the 'physics package' -- the Rb lamp oscillator, the microwave
oscillator feeding the resonance cavity, the photodetector and its output
amplifier or whatever. So it looks as if I'm going to have to search around
in that area myself...

Anyway Bert, thanks again and all the best for the festive season.

Jim Rowe
Sydney, Australia

-Original Message-
From: ewkeh...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:49 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Schematic for the 'analog' section of an FE-5680A?

Jim
unlike older Rb's there is very little analog in the unit. It  is sweeping
trough its lock range so maybe you may find something around the  lamp. The
lamp should not be the problem because the 5680 has not been around  and
been operating for extensive time before pulled.
How ever I like to caution time nuts and be careful who they  buy from, I
did have a bad experience with one vendor and I did post it  previously.
False claim of new and when returned after return authorization  refused
refund
since I refused to give a 5 star rating. I forwarded the emails  to ebay and
they did nothing. So any time nut that buys from ggg* fitting  deserves
what he is getting. We have other sources out there that time nuts have
good
experiences with and with the price increasing by a factor of 4 one should
be careful. Personally I do not think they are worse the price
Bert Kehren Miami


In a message dated 12/12/2013 4:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jimr...@optusnet.com.au writes:

Hi,

I’m  an elderly time-nut newby, and I’ve already struck trouble with a
used FE-5680  Rb-vapour reference
I bought via eBay. It runs (from +16V and +5V), and the  current drain
starts at 1.75A and then drops over
5 minutes or so down to  about 650mA. But it won’t lock, even if I leave it
powered up for a few hours  (with a fan
to keep it from getting too hot).

The output frequency  just keeps switching up and down between about
850Hz and 1080Hz, with  a bit of ‘lingering’
near each end. And of course the ‘lock’ output at pin  3 stays stubbornly
at about 4.35V.

To my newby brain, this sounds like  the problem is either in the Rb lamp
(too dark, perhaps), or
else in the  photodetector and buffer, etc, forming the ‘dip detector’
part of the feedback  loop.

Could one of you much-more-experienced time-nutters tell me if my
diagnosis sounds right?

Also, I’ve found a schematic for the digital  sections of the FE-5680A in
your archives, kindly drawn up
by one of your  very experienced members, but has anyone done a similar
schematic for the  ‘analog’
sections?  I suspect I’m going to have to work out for  myself  where to
test for a fault in these
sections. There’s also a  bit of a mystery (in my mind, at least) regarding
that little 2-pin SIL  header
just near the Rb lamp, on the top of the PCB. Anyone know what  that’s for?

All the best in anticipation, folks.

Jim  Rowe
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