Re: [time-nuts] FA-2 Precision Frequency Counter BG7TBL 20190622

[Bob kb8tq]

HI

Assuming 0.01 Hz at 6 GHz is the resolution, that comes out to 1.6 ppt. That’s 
roughly
10X better than the noise level that Mark reported on the FA1. Given that 
resolution is not
the same as noise and 10 seconds may well be 10X better than 1 second, it’s not 
at all clear
how the two data points relate to each other.

Bob

> On Sep 4, 2019, at 6:51 PM, djl  wrote:
> 
> Looked around at specs. I don't know that I can believe .01 HZ at 6 GHz??? Is 
> that approx 10^-11?? even with gpsdo reference and 10 sec gate.
> But even so, there are possibilities for this device.  I, too, will have to 
> downsize my boatanchors someday soon.
> Don
> 
> On 2019-09-04 14:25, paul swed wrote:
>> Perry as you have down sized it is a good opportunity to leverage more
>> modern options.
>> I can't speak to the quality/accuracy/value of the $100 units. But
>> Time-nuts can.
>> The fact is these things are pretty amazing and consume little power and
>> generally have modern USB interfaces and software. Granted they may not be
>> accurate to 100th db... But then rarely have I ever needed that.
>> I could see that when the time comes to dump my 100s LBs of HP test
>> equipment I will end up with little boxes. A far lighter bench with more
>> working space and lower power bill.
>> I have been following the discussions on the FA2. Very unclear on the
>> conclusion actually.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 4:05 PM Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>> Yo Bubba Dudes!,
>>> While looking on ebay at the BG7TBL FA1 analyzer I looked on the bottom of
>>> the page where other items are advertised an saw ads for the FA-2 Precision
>>> Frequency counter which is sold by multiple vendors in the $115 range.
>>> As I have to down-size It appears to be just what I could use albeit it
>>> requires a wall-wart PS.:(
>>> It seems to have a very good price/performance ratio.
>>> Does anyone have one or experience with one and could share their
>>> experience?
>>> Regards,
>>> Perrier
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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> 
> -- 
> Dr. Don Latham  AJ7LL
> PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
> VOX: 406-626-4304
> 
> 
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[time-nuts] (newbie alert) hints on tweaking IEEE1588 on embedded systems

[Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account)]

Hello everyone,

I’ve resurrected an old and no longer supported implementation of PTP for the 
STM32 series of 32-bit microcontrollers.

In a nutshell: the ethernet MAC on these micros has hardware support for packet 
time stamping and fine-grained adjustment of a free running timer. ST Micro had 
released a port of the ptpv2 client/server which took advantage of this 
hardware using ptpd-2.0.0, but it’s been lost to the sands of time. I’ve 
figured out a similar port and it’s working pretty good.

The end application I’m working toward is a closed (no availability of internet 
or gps time) network where multiple devices are working together to measure 
position and orientation of objects in an environment with carefully 
synchronized LED flashes and camera exposures. Absolute time is unimportant, 
but everyone in the closed network agreeing on what time it is is very 
important, down to single-digit microseconds.

I have a pair of STM32F756 development boards syncing to a ptpd server running 
on Linux. Using the hardware, timer-based (no interrupts or software 
involvement) PPS output of the STM32s and a logic analyzer I can see that the 
two STM32 dev boards wander in and out of sync with each other. The absolute 
difference between the rising edges of the PPS signals ranges from a few 
hundred nanoseconds to about 40-50us over the span of about 20-30 minutes.

The test system has a single (non-1588-aware) network switch, but the final 
implementation will have a master with multiple network interfaces directly 
connecting to each slave. The logging output of the STM32s shows that the 
second-to-second offset error of a slave is in the neighbourhood of +/-1500ns, 
and the long-term drift stabilizes out around 1200-1500pps.

I’m looking to close the range of the short-term sync and try to hold the 
slaves to within a half dozen microseconds of each other if possible. Now the 
master clock is just a free-running clock on the PC (no GPS or NTP discipline) 
but the absolute time is unimportant for me; what is important is very tight 
sync between the slaves over the short (second-to-second) term.

I have some hardware coming in which will help me visualize how jittery the 
master clock is, as I suspect some of this “slop” in sync comes from the master 
clock jittering and the measurement of the master clock by one slave not being 
the same as the other slave, causing the timing loops to diverge.

My newbie questions revolve around the short term sync error. Will an 
undisciplined master clock aggravate the ability for multiple slaves to stay 
synchronized relative to each other? What if I used a 10MHz OCXO and divider to 
provide a PPS signal to the PC, lying to it that this is a GPS PPS output and 
disciplining the master clock that way? It’s my understanding that an OXCO 
short-term error is very small, and the GPSDOs take advantage of this attribute 
while using the GPS long-term stability to keep the time correct.

The other newbie question is regarding adjusting the PI loop in the pop 
codebase on the STM32 slaves; is there any value in trying to adjust the loop 
coefficients to favour shorter term stability? I’m leery to do this, as I am 
fully aware of my newbieness and that the coefficients are there after a LOT of 
hard work to get them to optimal values.

Thanks,
Andrew


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Re: [time-nuts] FA-2 Precision Frequency Counter BG7TBL 20190622

[djl]

Looked around at specs. I don't know that I can believe .01 HZ at 6 
GHz??? Is that approx 10^-11?? even with gpsdo reference and 10 sec 
gate.
But even so, there are possibilities for this device.  I, too, will have 
to downsize my boatanchors someday soon.

Don

On 2019-09-04 14:25, paul swed wrote:

Perry as you have down sized it is a good opportunity to leverage more
modern options.
I can't speak to the quality/accuracy/value of the $100 units. But
Time-nuts can.
The fact is these things are pretty amazing and consume little power 
and
generally have modern USB interfaces and software. Granted they may not 
be

accurate to 100th db... But then rarely have I ever needed that.
I could see that when the time comes to dump my 100s LBs of HP test
equipment I will end up with little boxes. A far lighter bench with 
more

working space and lower power bill.
I have been following the discussions on the FA2. Very unclear on the
conclusion actually.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 4:05 PM Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:


Yo Bubba Dudes!,
While looking on ebay at the BG7TBL FA1 analyzer I looked on the 
bottom of
the page where other items are advertised an saw ads for the FA-2 
Precision

Frequency counter which is sold by multiple vendors in the $115 range.
As I have to down-size It appears to be just what I could use albeit 
it

requires a wall-wart PS.:(

It seems to have a very good price/performance ratio.
Does anyone have one or experience with one and could share their
experience?
Regards,
Perrier


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--
Dr. Don Latham  AJ7LL
PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
VOX: 406-626-4304


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Re: [time-nuts] FA-2 Precision Frequency Counter BG7TBL 20190622

[Jerry Hancock]

I bought the FA-2 and will be comparing it to the TICC and other counters I 
have.  I’ll probably wire up a better supply for it.

Regards,

Jerry

> On Sep 4, 2019, at 9:53 AM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yo Bubba Dudes!,
> While looking on ebay at the BG7TBL FA1 analyzer I looked on the bottom of 
> the page where other items are advertised an saw ads for the FA-2 Precision 
> Frequency counter which is sold by multiple vendors in the $115 range.
> As I have to down-size It appears to be just what I could use albeit it 
> requires a wall-wart PS.:(
> 
> It seems to have a very good price/performance ratio.
> Does anyone have one or experience with one and could share their experience?
> Regards,
> Perrier
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FA-2 Precision Frequency Counter BG7TBL 20190622

[Wes]

I saw that too a few days ago and was intrigued.  It sort of looks like an FA1 
with some smarts and a display.  I'm also interested in others' experience.


Wes


On 9/4/2019 9:53 AM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote:

Yo Bubba Dudes!,
While looking on ebay at the BG7TBL FA1 analyzer I looked on the bottom of the 
page where other items are advertised an saw ads for the FA-2 Precision 
Frequency counter which is sold by multiple vendors in the $115 range.
As I have to down-size It appears to be just what I could use albeit it 
requires a wall-wart PS.:(

It seems to have a very good price/performance ratio.
Does anyone have one or experience with one and could share their experience?
Regards,
Perrier


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Re: [time-nuts] FA-2 Precision Frequency Counter BG7TBL 20190622

[paul swed]

Perry as you have down sized it is a good opportunity to leverage more
modern options.
I can't speak to the quality/accuracy/value of the $100 units. But
Time-nuts can.
The fact is these things are pretty amazing and consume little power and
generally have modern USB interfaces and software. Granted they may not be
accurate to 100th db... But then rarely have I ever needed that.
I could see that when the time comes to dump my 100s LBs of HP test
equipment I will end up with little boxes. A far lighter bench with more
working space and lower power bill.
I have been following the discussions on the FA2. Very unclear on the
conclusion actually.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 4:05 PM Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

> Yo Bubba Dudes!,
> While looking on ebay at the BG7TBL FA1 analyzer I looked on the bottom of
> the page where other items are advertised an saw ads for the FA-2 Precision
> Frequency counter which is sold by multiple vendors in the $115 range.
> As I have to down-size It appears to be just what I could use albeit it
> requires a wall-wart PS.:(
>
> It seems to have a very good price/performance ratio.
> Does anyone have one or experience with one and could share their
> experience?
> Regards,
> Perrier
>
>
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> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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[time-nuts] HP 5061A Cesium standards for sale

[jim stephens]

I have for sale three HP 5061As

All three have the clock options.

One I obtained from a time nut member and he has run it and it locks and 
functions.


I am asking $1200 for this one plus shipping.

https://imgur.com/gallery/gdSNIYZ

The other two both run, but only one locks with the cesium running at 
this time.


https://imgur.com/gallery/SuPZqJL

(in the photos, only the 5061a's are for sale, and the 5089)

They both have updated tubes, tubes are FTS Cesium Beam Tubes.

Finally for any of the supplies or other rubidium or quartz which can 
use it, I

have an HP 5089 backup power supply.  I'm asking 700 for it.

All of these are (OBO), and plus shipping from 92868.

Please reply to this off list to my email jwsmail < at > jwsss dot com




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[time-nuts] Tektronix FCA3103 and TimeLab

[Christoph Kopetzky]

Hello all,

I searched the old time-nuts archives for TimeLab connection issues with 
Tektronix FCA3xxx or Pendulum CNT9x counters.

There are some infos but I am not able to get mine running with TimeLab.
Somewhere here I read that Tom (van Baak) has a FCA3x counter running 
with TimeLab, but I am not sure and I do not find

the appropriate posting.
It would be great if someone can give me some configuration tips how to 
set TimeLab for a FCA3101 counter. I am connecting
it with a Prologix LAN GPIB Adapter. With a HP53132A counter it was 
running very successful. But unfortunately the HP is no

longer available.
The Prologix has the actual firmware inside, the TimeLab is actual 1.37 
beta and the FCA3103 also is on state of the art.
I tried native and compatible (HP 531xx) mode but in neither way there 
are coming data into my computer.

The Prologix LAN adapter is okay.

Any help is welcome. Thanks

--
best regards

Chris
---
'Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.' -- Albert 
Einstein  


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[time-nuts] FA-2 Precision Frequency Counter BG7TBL 20190622

[Perry Sandeen via time-nuts]

Yo Bubba Dudes!,
While looking on ebay at the BG7TBL FA1 analyzer I looked on the bottom of the 
page where other items are advertised an saw ads for the FA-2 Precision 
Frequency counter which is sold by multiple vendors in the $115 range.
As I have to down-size It appears to be just what I could use albeit it 
requires a wall-wart PS.:(

It seems to have a very good price/performance ratio.
Does anyone have one or experience with one and could share their experience?
Regards,
Perrier


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Re: [time-nuts] BG7TBL FA1 frequency analyzer

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Assuming Mark’s data is at 10 MHz and 1 second then 0.0002 Hz is 20 ppt. That 
number
can be compared directly against data presented for a variety of other devices. 
By far the
best way to do the comparison would be to take data over a range of tau’s and 
look at the
resulting plot. That way you can be reasonably sure that there isn’t something 
weird going on
at one or another tau. 

Bob

> On Sep 4, 2019, at 1:07 AM, Christoph Kopetzky  wrote:
> 
> This would be an interesting compare.
> I want to compare the FA1 and the TSA3011 if I am back in office and have 
> both in my hands...
> But I really do not want to buy unnecessary tools...  So if someone has done 
> this it would be nice to read about that.
> 
> Mark, do you have also a TICC?
> 
> best regards
> 
> Chris
> ---
> 'Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.' -- Albert 
> Einstein
> 
> Am 03.09.2019 um 21:21 schrieb Jerry Hancock:
>> How would this compare to the TAPR TICC Rev D? The one that has the arduino 
>> base?  About half the price I see.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jerry
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2019, at 5:50 AM, Christoph Kopetzky >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mark,
>>> 
>>> interesting post.
>>> So is the FA1 compatible with the TimeLab or Stable32 software?
>>> And could I do phase noise measurements with it like the TimePod?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> Am 30.08.2019 um 22:57 schrieb Mark Sims:
 (Hopefully this is not a duplicate post...  hotmail has been having issues)
 
 The FA1 is a small, USB powered frequency counter.   You supply it with a 
 10 MHz reference and an input frequency of 1 .. 80 MHz.   It outputs a 
 text string of the measured frequency every second.  They cost around $80 
 .. $120.
 
 Apparently there is a PLL inside... the text string has a "PLL unlock" 
 flag.  There is no info on how it works and I have not opened mine up.
 
 I did a simple noise test on one where the input and ref clocks were from 
 a Tbolt.  It looks like the measurement noise is around +/- 0.0002 Hz.
 
 Lady Heather can now read it.  Attached is a screen capture of the noise 
 test.
 
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Re: [time-nuts] BG7TBL FA1 frequency analyzer

[Christoph Kopetzky]

This would be an interesting compare.
I want to compare the FA1 and the TSA3011 if I am back in office and 
have both in my hands...
But I really do not want to buy unnecessary tools...  So if someone has 
done this it would be nice to read about that.


Mark, do you have also a TICC?

best regards

Chris
---
'Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.' -- Albert 
Einstein

Am 03.09.2019 um 21:21 schrieb Jerry Hancock:
How would this compare to the TAPR TICC Rev D? The one that has the 
arduino base?  About half the price I see.


Regards,

Jerry


On Sep 2, 2019, at 5:50 AM, Christoph Kopetzky > wrote:


Hi Mark,

interesting post.
So is the FA1 compatible with the TimeLab or Stable32 software?
And could I do phase noise measurements with it like the TimePod?


Chris

Am 30.08.2019 um 22:57 schrieb Mark Sims:
(Hopefully this is not a duplicate post...  hotmail has been having 
issues)


The FA1 is a small, USB powered frequency counter.   You supply it 
with a 10 MHz reference and an input frequency of 1 .. 80 MHz.   It 
outputs a text string of the measured frequency every second.  They 
cost around $80 .. $120.


Apparently there is a PLL inside... the text string has a "PLL 
unlock" flag.  There is no info on how it works and I have not 
opened mine up.


I did a simple noise test on one where the input and ref clocks were 
from a Tbolt.  It looks like the measurement noise is around +/- 
0.0002 Hz.


Lady Heather can now read it.  Attached is a screen capture of the 
noise test.


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