Re: [time-nuts] 3D printed tourbillon clock
Hi Printing an OCXO is trivial. Printing a *properly working* OCXO is a bit more difficult ….. :) = The gotcha with the listed print time: The STL’s are set up for a very specific printer, print profile, and material. Unless you just happen to have exactly the same setup, there will be some trial and error folded into the process. I’ve printed a lot of gear trains over the years. They always take some fiddling ….. :( Bob > On Jul 25, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > > > I’m guessing a couple hundred hours to print the parts and maybe the same > > sort of time to clean them all / fit them together ….. > > Bob, > > Good guess. The video comments say 110 hours print time. Full details below. > > BTW, even if you don't watch the video, the 22 MB > "Tourbillon_Mechanica_Assembly_Guide.pdf" file is worth downloading and > admiring. The direct google drive link is below. > > Now if we could just 3D print a OCXO, Rb, or Cs standard we'd have as much > fun as the mechanical clock guys. ;-) > > /tvb > > - > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9prY3ky6Bo > > > > Cool 3D Printed Mechanical Clock | Tourbillon Mechanica (FDM Version) > > Assembly Guide > > 101,691 views Jul 13, 2020 > > > > Dan.T > > 8.52K subscribers > > > > This is the FDM version of the Tourbillion Mechanica that is modified to > > optimise > > printability and assembly on a FDM printer. These was printed on the > > standard Ender 3. > > > > Detailed step by step assembly and printing guide can be downloaded here: > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JZ_KSSja-Vo8brJ3yLqM_bRg7YPXFP6R/view > > > > Link to STL files: > > > > https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-tourbillon-mechanica-tourbillon-escapement-mechanical-clock-assembly-guide-pdf-in-description-124938 > > > > Approximate run-time on PETG spring: 10 minutes > > Total Print Time: 110 hours > > Material Consumption: 350 grams > > > > More details can be found in the detailed pdf guide! > - > > > On 7/25/2020 8:22 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: >> Hi >> >> Very cool !! >> >> I’m guessing a couple hundred hours to print the parts and maybe the same >> sort of time to clean them all / fit them together ….. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Jul 25, 2020, at 2:40 AM, Mark Sims wrote: >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9prY3ky6Bo >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Timelab error bars on xDEV traces
> Then, M = tau / tau0? So, for a time series with a measurement interval of 1s, > M would be equal to tau, right? Exactly. And if the sample interval were 0.1s, then M would be 1 at t=0.1s and 10 at t=1s. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3D printed tourbillon clock
Ummm-- I watched the video. Start to finish. I noticed in many places hand movements reminiscent of those I practiced many times in front of a mirror. There is nothing up my sleeve... Wonder how long plastic springs hold up? Don On 2020-07-25 12:42, Tom Van Baak wrote: I’m guessing a couple hundred hours to print the parts and maybe the same sort of time to clean them all / fit them together ….. Bob, Good guess. The video comments say 110 hours print time. Full details below. BTW, even if you don't watch the video, the 22 MB "Tourbillon_Mechanica_Assembly_Guide.pdf" file is worth downloading and admiring. The direct google drive link is below. Now if we could just 3D print a OCXO, Rb, or Cs standard we'd have as much fun as the mechanical clock guys. ;-) /tvb - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9prY3ky6Bo Cool 3D Printed Mechanical Clock | Tourbillon Mechanica (FDM Version) Assembly Guide 101,691 views Jul 13, 2020 Dan.T 8.52K subscribers This is the FDM version of the Tourbillion Mechanica that is modified to optimise printability and assembly on a FDM printer. These was printed on the standard Ender 3. Detailed step by step assembly and printing guide can be downloaded here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JZ_KSSja-Vo8brJ3yLqM_bRg7YPXFP6R/view Link to STL files: https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-tourbillon-mechanica-tourbillon-escapement-mechanical-clock-assembly-guide-pdf-in-description-124938 Approximate run-time on PETG spring: 10 minutes Total Print Time: 110 hours Material Consumption: 350 grams More details can be found in the detailed pdf guide! - On 7/25/2020 8:22 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi Very cool !! I’m guessing a couple hundred hours to print the parts and maybe the same sort of time to clean them all / fit them together ….. Bob On Jul 25, 2020, at 2:40 AM, Mark Sims wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9prY3ky6Bo ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. -- Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834 VOX: 406-626-4304 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 192, Issue 34
Piezo Crystal -> | |-> Oak Industries -> Corning Frequency Control -> Vectron -> Microsemi -> Microchip Tele Quarz ---> | "all together" now ... Have fun Bernd (built up Tele Quarz oscillator division , now running AXTAL since 17 years) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] Im Auftrag von jsodus Gesendet: Samstag, 25. Juli 2020 20:14 An: time-nuts@lists.febo.com Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 192, Issue 34 Pual,I was just about to delete your post when I realized I had wanted to mention Vectron.Besides the Piezo engr, our club has a Vectron egnr, who incidentally is responsible for my becoming a ham. Both are now retired. I also worked at Vectron just for something to do after retiring. 73Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3D printed tourbillon clock
> I’m guessing a couple hundred hours to print the parts and maybe the same > sort of time to clean them all / fit them together ….. Bob, Good guess. The video comments say 110 hours print time. Full details below. BTW, even if you don't watch the video, the 22 MB "Tourbillon_Mechanica_Assembly_Guide.pdf" file is worth downloading and admiring. The direct google drive link is below. Now if we could just 3D print a OCXO, Rb, or Cs standard we'd have as much fun as the mechanical clock guys. ;-) /tvb - > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9prY3ky6Bo > > Cool 3D Printed Mechanical Clock | Tourbillon Mechanica (FDM Version) Assembly Guide > 101,691 views Jul 13, 2020 > > Dan.T > 8.52K subscribers > > This is the FDM version of the Tourbillion Mechanica that is modified to optimise > printability and assembly on a FDM printer. These was printed on the standard Ender 3. > > Detailed step by step assembly and printing guide can be downloaded here: > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JZ_KSSja-Vo8brJ3yLqM_bRg7YPXFP6R/view > > Link to STL files: > > https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-tourbillon-mechanica-tourbillon-escapement-mechanical-clock-assembly-guide-pdf-in-description-124938 > > Approximate run-time on PETG spring: 10 minutes > Total Print Time: 110 hours > Material Consumption: 350 grams > > More details can be found in the detailed pdf guide! - On 7/25/2020 8:22 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi Very cool !! I’m guessing a couple hundred hours to print the parts and maybe the same sort of time to clean them all / fit them together ….. Bob On Jul 25, 2020, at 2:40 AM, Mark Sims wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9prY3ky6Bo ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3D printed tourbillon clock
Hi Very cool !! I’m guessing a couple hundred hours to print the parts and maybe the same sort of time to clean them all / fit them together ….. Bob > On Jul 25, 2020, at 2:40 AM, Mark Sims wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9prY3ky6Bo > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 192, Issue 34
Pual,I was just about to delete your post when I realized I had wanted to mention Vectron.Besides the Piezo engr, our club has a Vectron egnr, who incidentally is responsible for my becoming a ham. Both are now retired. I also worked at Vectron just for something to do after retiring.73Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: time-nuts-requ...@lists.febo.com Date: 7/23/20 12:00 (GMT-05:00) To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 192, Issue 34 Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to time-n...@lists.febo.comTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.comor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to time-nuts-requ...@lists.febo.comYou can reach the person managing the list at time-nuts-ow...@lists.febo.comWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..."Today's Topics: 1. "Best Practices" for cascading L1 GPS Antenna Distribution Amplifiers (JAMES ROBBINS) 2. Re: WWVB PM Time Questions (paul swed)--Message: 1Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 09:34:11 -0400From: JAMES ROBBINS To: time-n...@lists.febo.comSubject: [time-nuts] "Best Practices" for cascading L1 GPS Antenna Distribution AmplifiersMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8I am wondering if anyone either knows (or can point me to some pertinent information regarding) the "best practices" for feeding L1 to two HP/Symmetricom 58517A (8 port) Distribution Amplifiers?1. Can I simply choose one of the first amplifier?s ports and use that to feed the L1 RF to the input of the second unit?2. What about the DC needs of the second amplifier?3. Or, should I use, say, a 58512A (2 port) unit and distribute its? 2 outputs, one to each of the inputs of the two 58517A units?4. Or, perhaps it doesn?t really matter, as the 58512A outputs are ultimately the same thing as using one of the first 58517A outputs to feed the second 58517A?Thoughts appreciated.Jim RobbinsN1JR--Message: 2Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:22:22 -0400From: paul swed To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time QuestionsMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"BobI attempted to use a OCXO a Piezo and could never get it to hold lock.Did invert the control and such. Anyhow, just wondering if I need a simplersloppy VCTXO.No time to tinker. But I believe I have some really nice little 10 MHzvectron VCTCXOs.If that worked then what I am dealing with is an efc range control issue.Perhaps the swing is to large...RegardsPaulWB8TSLOn Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 AM Bob kb8tq wrote:> Hi>> 10 MHz *is* a frequency at which you can find a pretty good $3 to $6 OCXO.> I find that a bit amazing, but (at least right now) that?s how it seems to> work.> (and yes, they do have EFC).>> Bob>>> > On Jul 22, 2020, at 10:09 PM, paul swed wrote:> >> > Looked at the KD2BD schematic and it is a 10 MHz VCTCXO. That seems> > reasonable perhaps to find.> > Regards> > Paul> >> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:44 PM paul swed wrote:> >> >> I was actually thinking about this quite a bit and perhaps I went the> >> wrong way.> >> That is a cheap vcxo class device. His unit was not an oven as I recall.> >> Just maybe a bit too good was actually bad.> >> Hard to say and no time to play right now.> >> Regards> >> Paul> >> WB8TSL> >>> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:06 PM Bob kb8tq wrote:> >>> >>> Hi> On Jul 22, 2020, at 3:51 PM, paul swed wrote:> > Ray watch out for my comment on the KD2BD solution. That oscillator> >>> isn't> available and I have not been able to map something else into it.> Tried> several good grade Oven oscillators. Just be aware of that issue.> Would need to do more tinkering and simply don't have that time right> >>> now.> Also it would be great if the oscillator was something that could be> obtained at a reasonable cost. I do not believe at all it has to be a> OCXO as the older true time and spectracoms were not and they locked> >>> solid.> So its a case of getting the control voltages right.> >>> You can buy a surprisingly good little OCXO (for the price) on eBay> these> >>> days in the $3 to $6 range. Find one at 12.6 MHz and it will divide> >>> nicely to> >>> 60 KHz. 19.2 MHz looks like a better candidate ? Either way I have not> >>> (yet)> >>> seen a 60 KHz multiple show up in the cheap category.> >>> Bob> Regards> Paul.> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:29 PM wrote:> > > Thanks to all for the suggestions. I dug a ferrite rod AM radio> antenna> > out of the box this morning. I have a box of 10 left over from the> late> > 80s. It measures
Re: [time-nuts] Timelab error bars on xDEV traces
On Samstag, 25. Juli 2020 14:16:23 CEST John Miles wrote: > > I've been trying to figure out how the error estimates (error bars) in the > > XDEV traces in TimeLab are computed. The status bar says " +/- sigma / > > sqrt(n/ > > > m)", obviously "n" is the number of values in the bin for the computed > > tau, > > > but what is "m"? It cannot be smaller than "n" as the error estimate would > > then become larger than the actual value, right? > > Hi, Matthias -- > > There's a bit more detail on page 94 at > http://www.miles.io/PhaseStation_53100A_user_manual.pdf . This method is > based on the "simple confidence intervals" described on page 37 of > https://www.nist.gov/publications/handbook-frequency-stability-analysis . > > The denominator (m) used by TimeLab is the tau multiple for the bin. The > division is necessary because the sqrt(n) subexpression assumes > non-overlapped calculations, while TimeLab always uses overlapping. If you > use sqrt(n) for overlapped calculations, the resulting error bars are > unrealistically small (almost invisible.) Indeed I noticed, I checked some matlab scripts that calculate adev and the error bars were practically nonexistent. Then I wondered what Timelab was doing differently. Then, M = tau / tau0? So, for a time series with a measurement interval of 1s, M would be equal to tau, right? > > In reality the confidence interval at any given bin is influenced by other > factors such as the dominant noise type. For applications that require > mathematically-defensible confidence intervals, it's best to export the data > to Stable32 and crunch it there. I'll go with "pretty" and "informative". Thanks! > > -- john > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow > the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Timelab error bars on xDEV traces
> I've been trying to figure out how the error estimates (error bars) in the > XDEV traces in TimeLab are computed. The status bar says " +/- sigma / sqrt(n/ > m)", obviously "n" is the number of values in the bin for the computed tau, > but what is "m"? It cannot be smaller than "n" as the error estimate would > then become larger than the actual value, right? > Hi, Matthias -- There's a bit more detail on page 94 at http://www.miles.io/PhaseStation_53100A_user_manual.pdf . This method is based on the "simple confidence intervals" described on page 37 of https://www.nist.gov/publications/handbook-frequency-stability-analysis . The denominator (m) used by TimeLab is the tau multiple for the bin. The division is necessary because the sqrt(n) subexpression assumes non-overlapped calculations, while TimeLab always uses overlapping. If you use sqrt(n) for overlapped calculations, the resulting error bars are unrealistically small (almost invisible.) In reality the confidence interval at any given bin is influenced by other factors such as the dominant noise type. For applications that require mathematically-defensible confidence intervals, it's best to export the data to Stable32 and crunch it there. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vintage time equipment that needs a new home (Austron, HP, Sulzer, Tracor)...
Quick Update, David Partridge suggested I let folks know the equipment is located in the USA (Oregon) since it probably isn't economic to ship it internationally. Cheers, Kirk Bailey bai...@peak.org On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 12:37 PM Kirk Bailey wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm in the process of finding new homes for a large pile of older test > equipment. Among the items are several time related widgets. If you > are interested in any of this stuff please contact me directly: > > Thanks, > > Kirk Bailey > bai...@peak.org > > -- > Austron 2084A LF Multifilter > Austron 2100F Loran-C Frequency Monitor > HP 104AR Frequency Standard > Sulzer Labs (Tracor) 5B/5P Frequency Standard > Tracor 599 VLF Tracking Receiver > Tracor 895A Linear Phase/Time Comparator > > Manuals are also available for some of the items > - > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 3D printed tourbillon clock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9prY3ky6Bo ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Raspberry Pi NTP server
On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:25 PM jimlux wrote: > > I use teensy boards (pjrc.com) for this kind of thing (Arduino sort of, > but much, much more - much faster processor with more resources, and > physically smaller). > > I've used Teensy 3.1s and 3.2s - but a Teensy LC for $12 might do it. > https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensylc.html > > lots of timers on the chip. You can in fact, run it off an external > clock, although if you change from the native frequency, the USB > interface won't work (but it is conceivably reprogrammable to make it work) > > I mentioned the teensy 4.1 a few weeks ago, interesting because of its IEEE-1588 - capable ethernet hardware. I now see that someone has implemented NTP with a GPS PPS source on the device. Details and measurements at https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/61581-Teensy-4-1-NTP-server ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions
I saw this the other day but not sure if this was answered: > I read the document "Enhanced WWVB Broadcast Format" by John Lowe from > NIST. One thing that is confusing to me is this paragraph: "Although the > phase representing the information in each symbol is shown to be > available before the amplitude in it transitions from VH to VL, it is > recommended that receivers extract it only from the high amplitude > portion of the symbol. This is not only because of the higher power > there, allowing for more robust phase demodulation, but also because the > low amplitude portion may be used in the future for additional (higher > rate) phase modulation." I interpret this as saying when you're syncing with the transmitted signal, you only do so while it's at the high amplitude. At other times you're generating the signal without external sync, and using this locally generated signal to compare with the phase of the received signal. This is similar to how the color-burst of the (now-obsolete analog) NTSC TV color signal works. I'm thinking this would all be done in software on an ARM microcontroller. The local 60kHz would be generated using a software DDS. I recall others discussed at least some aspects of this. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
