Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
Hi If there is no documentation on the protocol the boards are sending, then anything you see on a screen is a guess. The unit may be saying “survey in mode 3” and that gets guessed as “unlocked”. Without a protocol definition, this gets really crazy. Bob > On Apr 11, 2019, at 3:22 AM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts > wrote: > > Not knowing if what I am seeing is normal or not is hard to accept. > Housekeeping "hold" does sound feasible, although why showing up as unlocked > is a mystery. I also don't know what I'm seeing really is unlocked status. > Graph shows red bar, status says "normal". Huh? > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > >On Thursday, April 11, 2019, 2:04:34 AM EDT, Mark Sims > wrote: > > Unless you have a really crappy antenna setup, I doubt it is a signal level > problem. > > These receivers do like to do the "holdover" thing. No telling if those are > real holdovers, though... no documentation. It could be that the device is > going into some house-keeping mode... who knows? > > Also try to force a self-survey (SS keyboard command). > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
Not knowing if what I am seeing is normal or not is hard to accept. Housekeeping "hold" does sound feasible, although why showing up as unlocked is a mystery. I also don't know what I'm seeing really is unlocked status. Graph shows red bar, status says "normal". Huh? --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! On Thursday, April 11, 2019, 2:04:34 AM EDT, Mark Sims wrote: Unless you have a really crappy antenna setup, I doubt it is a signal level problem. These receivers do like to do the "holdover" thing. No telling if those are real holdovers, though... no documentation. It could be that the device is going into some house-keeping mode... who knows? Also try to force a self-survey (SS keyboard command). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
Thank you. I'm sort of thinking something else might be wrong. 1 pps driving Rb does odd thing as well. The only commonality now is the PC that LH runs on and USB to serial adapter. Just to eliminate the possibility, I am getting a new and different adapter. I could use one more anyway. I will report back when I have significant findings. --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! On Thursday, April 11, 2019, 1:01:20 AM EDT, Björn wrote: Hi Taka, Sent from my iPhone > On 10 Apr 2019, at 22:23, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts > wrote: > > I have somewhat of a result. > > I rigged up an antenna outside. It has 360 degree view above 30 degrees > above horizon. (it's located at middle of my front yard). > Using 40dB antenna, lock was faster but it still lost sync every now and > then. RE-lock was faster as well. Then, I disconnected its power supply > (which is a switching power supply) and fed it from my lab supply. The power > is spec'd 0.5mv ripple. It locked about the same as above and lost it once > in few minutes. But once it relocked, it is staying locked. It's been > running 2 hours locked solid. It would have lost it few times by now. > So the issue likely is the power source. Yay! > If you can have a look at the SNR for the individual satellites you should have a much quicker feedback on receiver status than waiting for unlock. Look at the highest elevation satellites and try to maximize their signal strength. Then with more time at hand - can Lady Heather do it’s fine “signal strength vs az/el”-plot with this receiver? High elevation satellites can be +20db stronger/clearer than satellites down along the horizon. The receiver can only track a satellite down to a certain SNR (usually between 20 and 30 but it varies between models). If you have ‘the highest elevation’-satellite at say 50db then a low elevation satellite might come in at 30db and still be trackable. If your high elevation satellite is tracking at say 35db then lower elevation satellites will not be tracked at all - and the receiver will track much less satellites than are actually visible from your antenna. Also low SNR satellites will be somewhat noisier. After a day or two LH should have a “painted” azimuth/elevation plot on SNR. Compare that while changing PSU or antenna gain. Also compare with what your well performing receivers show. Antenna signal gain... most modern receiver will happily eat a wide range of rf signal strengths. Some receivers - mostly older - have a narrow gap where they perform optimally. There should be information in the receiver documentation somewhere. Then you can check with adding antenna gain - cable attenuation - splitter attenuation + any amplifiers (maybe within the splitter) etc. Good luck! Kind regards, Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] True position unlocking
Unless you have a really crappy antenna setup, I doubt it is a signal level problem. These receivers do like to do the "holdover" thing. No telling if those are real holdovers, though... no documentation. It could be that the device is going into some house-keeping mode... who knows? Also try to force a self-survey (SS keyboard command). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
Hi Taka, Sent from my iPhone > On 10 Apr 2019, at 22:23, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts > wrote: > > I have somewhat of a result. > > I rigged up an antenna outside. It has 360 degree view above 30 degrees > above horizon. (it's located at middle of my front yard). > Using 40dB antenna, lock was faster but it still lost sync every now and > then. RE-lock was faster as well. Then, I disconnected its power supply > (which is a switching power supply) and fed it from my lab supply. The power > is spec'd 0.5mv ripple. It locked about the same as above and lost it once > in few minutes. But once it relocked, it is staying locked. It's been > running 2 hours locked solid. It would have lost it few times by now. > So the issue likely is the power source. Yay! > If you can have a look at the SNR for the individual satellites you should have a much quicker feedback on receiver status than waiting for unlock. Look at the highest elevation satellites and try to maximize their signal strength. Then with more time at hand - can Lady Heather do it’s fine “signal strength vs az/el”-plot with this receiver? High elevation satellites can be +20db stronger/clearer than satellites down along the horizon. The receiver can only track a satellite down to a certain SNR (usually between 20 and 30 but it varies between models). If you have ‘the highest elevation’-satellite at say 50db then a low elevation satellite might come in at 30db and still be trackable. If your high elevation satellite is tracking at say 35db then lower elevation satellites will not be tracked at all - and the receiver will track much less satellites than are actually visible from your antenna. Also low SNR satellites will be somewhat noisier. After a day or two LH should have a “painted” azimuth/elevation plot on SNR. Compare that while changing PSU or antenna gain. Also compare with what your well performing receivers show. Antenna signal gain... most modern receiver will happily eat a wide range of rf signal strengths. Some receivers - mostly older - have a narrow gap where they perform optimally. There should be information in the receiver documentation somewhere. Then you can check with adding antenna gain - cable attenuation - splitter attenuation + any amplifiers (maybe within the splitter) etc. Good luck! Kind regards, Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
Hi If the boards all sat out in the same acid rain (or whatever) storm in a land far far away …. it may indeed be the boards. Of course, there *are* 50 db antennas out there … that’s a lot of gain …. Bob > On Apr 10, 2019, at 8:08 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts > wrote: > > . and as soon as I typed that and sent it in, my GPS unlocked. Something > is very wrong here as I have 3 boards and they all have the same symptom. > More than likely the fault is mine, not the boards. > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > >On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 6:03:55 PM EDT, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts > wrote: > > I have somewhat of a result. > > I rigged up an antenna outside. It has 360 degree view above 30 degrees > above horizon. (it's located at middle of my front yard). > Using 40dB antenna, lock was faster but it still lost sync every now and > then. RE-lock was faster as well. Then, I disconnected its power supply > (which is a switching power supply) and fed it from my lab supply. The power > is spec'd 0.5mv ripple. It locked about the same as above and lost it once > in few minutes. But once it relocked, it is staying locked. It's been > running 2 hours locked solid. It would have lost it few times by now. > So the issue likely is the power source. Yay! > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > > On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 11:00:34 AM EDT, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts > wrote: > > It is going to take me few days to put up outside antenna. It is on-and-off > rainy in my area this week. Thanks for the pointer. I will report back once > I have a result. Thanks again. > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > > On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 2:27:42 AM EDT, Mark Goldberg > wrote: > > I am using a Motorola / Pctel 8508851k66 / 3226MSMA that is supposed to be a > 26 dB gain antenna with an HP 58515A splitter that provides +3 dB +/- 3 dB. > It has a clear view of about 1/2 the sky. > Regards, > Mark > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 11:06 PM Taka Kamiya wrote: > > I have a bullet type 26dB gain antenna in attic. It goes through hard-line > then into Symetricon 4 way splitter, and one of the port is connected to True > Position. My splitter has zero gain per port (ie. each port has exactly the > same level as the input) > I have on my plan to install 40dB type and do so outside. Maybe that's a > solution? I didn't think about this because all other GPDSO locks just fine. > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > > On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 1:30:42 AM EDT, Mark Goldberg > wrote: > > What kind of antenna and where is it located? I have a trueposition and it > seems to need a higher gain antenna than my other gpsdo, a modern Bodnar. I > put it outside with an amplified splitter and it works well. > When using another antenna or this one on the windowsill, it went into > holdover fairly often. > Regards, > Mark > On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 6:00 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts > wrote: > > I have a few Tru-Position boards. This is an older older GPSDO board for > telecom industries. I am using this with LadyHeather. > > All hooked up, it locks and works; but, quite often Lady Heather shows the > red line in graph, showing it is unlocked. I have several GPSDO board here, > and for all others, antenna and signal strength are just fine. Ambient > temperatures are "human comfortable". > I am concerned with this frequent unlock. It happens few times a day and it > will eventually RE-locks. > Does anybody know what is happening? > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list --
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
I have somewhat of a result. I rigged up an antenna outside. It has 360 degree view above 30 degrees above horizon. (it's located at middle of my front yard). Using 40dB antenna, lock was faster but it still lost sync every now and then. RE-lock was faster as well. Then, I disconnected its power supply (which is a switching power supply) and fed it from my lab supply. The power is spec'd 0.5mv ripple. It locked about the same as above and lost it once in few minutes. But once it relocked, it is staying locked. It's been running 2 hours locked solid. It would have lost it few times by now. So the issue likely is the power source. Yay! --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 11:00:34 AM EDT, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts wrote: It is going to take me few days to put up outside antenna. It is on-and-off rainy in my area this week. Thanks for the pointer. I will report back once I have a result. Thanks again. --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 2:27:42 AM EDT, Mark Goldberg wrote: I am using a Motorola / Pctel 8508851k66 / 3226MSMA that is supposed to be a 26 dB gain antenna with an HP 58515A splitter that provides +3 dB +/- 3 dB. It has a clear view of about 1/2 the sky. Regards, Mark On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 11:06 PM Taka Kamiya wrote: I have a bullet type 26dB gain antenna in attic. It goes through hard-line then into Symetricon 4 way splitter, and one of the port is connected to True Position. My splitter has zero gain per port (ie. each port has exactly the same level as the input) I have on my plan to install 40dB type and do so outside. Maybe that's a solution? I didn't think about this because all other GPDSO locks just fine. --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 1:30:42 AM EDT, Mark Goldberg wrote: What kind of antenna and where is it located? I have a trueposition and it seems to need a higher gain antenna than my other gpsdo, a modern Bodnar. I put it outside with an amplified splitter and it works well. When using another antenna or this one on the windowsill, it went into holdover fairly often. Regards, Mark On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 6:00 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts wrote: I have a few Tru-Position boards. This is an older older GPSDO board for telecom industries. I am using this with LadyHeather. All hooked up, it locks and works; but, quite often Lady Heather shows the red line in graph, showing it is unlocked. I have several GPSDO board here, and for all others, antenna and signal strength are just fine. Ambient temperatures are "human comfortable". I am concerned with this frequent unlock. It happens few times a day and it will eventually RE-locks. Does anybody know what is happening? --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
It is going to take me few days to put up outside antenna. It is on-and-off rainy in my area this week. Thanks for the pointer. I will report back once I have a result. Thanks again. --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 2:27:42 AM EDT, Mark Goldberg wrote: I am using a Motorola / Pctel 8508851k66 / 3226MSMA that is supposed to be a 26 dB gain antenna with an HP 58515A splitter that provides +3 dB +/- 3 dB. It has a clear view of about 1/2 the sky. Regards, Mark On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 11:06 PM Taka Kamiya wrote: I have a bullet type 26dB gain antenna in attic. It goes through hard-line then into Symetricon 4 way splitter, and one of the port is connected to True Position. My splitter has zero gain per port (ie. each port has exactly the same level as the input) I have on my plan to install 40dB type and do so outside. Maybe that's a solution? I didn't think about this because all other GPDSO locks just fine. --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 1:30:42 AM EDT, Mark Goldberg wrote: What kind of antenna and where is it located? I have a trueposition and it seems to need a higher gain antenna than my other gpsdo, a modern Bodnar. I put it outside with an amplified splitter and it works well. When using another antenna or this one on the windowsill, it went into holdover fairly often. Regards, Mark On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 6:00 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts wrote: I have a few Tru-Position boards. This is an older older GPSDO board for telecom industries. I am using this with LadyHeather. All hooked up, it locks and works; but, quite often Lady Heather shows the red line in graph, showing it is unlocked. I have several GPSDO board here, and for all others, antenna and signal strength are just fine. Ambient temperatures are "human comfortable". I am concerned with this frequent unlock. It happens few times a day and it will eventually RE-locks. Does anybody know what is happening? --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
I am using a Motorola / Pctel 8508851k66 / 3226MSMA that is supposed to be a 26 dB gain antenna with an HP 58515A splitter that provides +3 dB +/- 3 dB. It has a clear view of about 1/2 the sky. Regards, Mark On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 11:06 PM Taka Kamiya wrote: > I have a bullet type 26dB gain antenna in attic. It goes through > hard-line then into Symetricon 4 way splitter, and one of the port is > connected to True Position. My splitter has zero gain per port (ie. each > port has exactly the same level as the input) > > I have on my plan to install 40dB type and do so outside. Maybe that's a > solution? I didn't think about this because all other GPDSO locks just > fine. > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > > > On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 1:30:42 AM EDT, Mark Goldberg < > marklgoldb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > What kind of antenna and where is it located? I have a trueposition and it > seems to need a higher gain antenna than my other gpsdo, a modern Bodnar. I > put it outside with an amplified splitter and it works well. > > When using another antenna or this one on the windowsill, it went into > holdover fairly often. > > Regards, > > Mark > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 6:00 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > I have a few Tru-Position boards. This is an older older GPSDO board for > telecom industries. I am using this with LadyHeather. > > All hooked up, it locks and works; but, quite often Lady Heather shows the > red line in graph, showing it is unlocked. I have several GPSDO board > here, and for all others, antenna and signal strength are just fine. > Ambient temperatures are "human comfortable". > I am concerned with this frequent unlock. It happens few times a day and > it will eventually RE-locks. > Does anybody know what is happening? > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
What kind of antenna and where is it located? I have a trueposition and it seems to need a higher gain antenna than my other gpsdo, a modern Bodnar. I put it outside with an amplified splitter and it works well. When using another antenna or this one on the windowsill, it went into holdover fairly often. Regards, Mark On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 6:00 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > I have a few Tru-Position boards. This is an older older GPSDO board for > telecom industries. I am using this with LadyHeather. > > All hooked up, it locks and works; but, quite often Lady Heather shows the > red line in graph, showing it is unlocked. I have several GPSDO board > here, and for all others, antenna and signal strength are just fine. > Ambient temperatures are "human comfortable". > I am concerned with this frequent unlock. It happens few times a day and > it will eventually RE-locks. > Does anybody know what is happening? > > --- > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya > I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] True position unlocking
I have a bullet type 26dB gain antenna in attic. It goes through hard-line then into Symetricon 4 way splitter, and one of the port is connected to True Position. My splitter has zero gain per port (ie. each port has exactly the same level as the input) I have on my plan to install 40dB type and do so outside. Maybe that's a solution? I didn't think about this because all other GPDSO locks just fine. --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! On Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 1:30:42 AM EDT, Mark Goldberg wrote: What kind of antenna and where is it located? I have a trueposition and it seems to need a higher gain antenna than my other gpsdo, a modern Bodnar. I put it outside with an amplified splitter and it works well. When using another antenna or this one on the windowsill, it went into holdover fairly often. Regards, Mark On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 6:00 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts wrote: I have a few Tru-Position boards. This is an older older GPSDO board for telecom industries. I am using this with LadyHeather. All hooked up, it locks and works; but, quite often Lady Heather shows the red line in graph, showing it is unlocked. I have several GPSDO board here, and for all others, antenna and signal strength are just fine. Ambient temperatures are "human comfortable". I am concerned with this frequent unlock. It happens few times a day and it will eventually RE-locks. Does anybody know what is happening? --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] True position unlocking
I have a few Tru-Position boards. This is an older older GPSDO board for telecom industries. I am using this with LadyHeather. All hooked up, it locks and works; but, quite often Lady Heather shows the red line in graph, showing it is unlocked. I have several GPSDO board here, and for all others, antenna and signal strength are just fine. Ambient temperatures are "human comfortable". I am concerned with this frequent unlock. It happens few times a day and it will eventually RE-locks. Does anybody know what is happening? --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya I'm stuck in a wormhole Hello, worms! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
