Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
You can also get it from Universal-solder in Canada: ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Real-Time-Clock-DS3231SN-for-Arduino-32kB-EEPROM-I2C-Battery-Backup/263183091193 C $4.92 Approximately US $3.49 Or from the web site: https://www.universal-solder.ca/product/rtc-real-time-clock-ds3231-32kb-eeprom-i2c-interface-cr2032-arduino/ CAD 4.56 Unlike Adafruit, in NYC, Universal-solder, in Canada, is open. I have one on the way. I've bought stuff from them before, no problems, same for Adafruit. Robert On 04/25/2020 01:04 PM, Ben Bradley wrote: Adafruit and Sparkfun sell a remarkable number of SMT parts already on breakout boards for moderate prices. I looked up the three parts and found the DS3231 on a board (two different boards even), in stock and ready to order from Adafruit (most Adafruit and Sparkfun products are also sold through Digikey): https://www.adafruit.com/?q=DS3231 These links bring up the others, each site has hundreds: https://www.adafruit.com/?q=breakout https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=breakout On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:47 PM John Ackermann N8UR wrote: Hi Perry -- The circuit in the FatPPS is really simple and would be easy to duplicate. Frankly, the reason we had to significantly increase the cost is because we provide the board fully assembled (it's all surface mount parts), and with the low volume we've had in the last few years, the per-unit assembly cost has gone way up. John On 4/24/20 7:19 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: Learned Gentlemen, Several poster wrote: TAPR offers a FatPPS kit to stretch the pulse out, and it looks likethey're back in stock. I have one but haven't assembled it yet.https://tapr.org/product/fatpps-pulse-stretcher/ OK no problemo. But it's $55. It's probably a great device, but does this application warrant such expense? I looked up *pulse stretcher circuits* and found over a dozen inexpensive circuits. DRV8662and is available from Digikey for $3.35. It is a small-pitch device(0.5mm) but not impossible to solder. RV-3028 is 3.2x1.5 mm in size, 1.5ppm, additionally trimmable, 45 nAstandby current, under $3 USD in price and in stock at Mouser andDigikey. Aswonderful as the DS3231 is, there is a newer chip from Micro Crystalthat is smaller, more accurate than the DS3231M, much cheaper, anddraws less power These three chips fall into the *Vaperware Parts* category. Yes, they are great chips and I don't mind someone posting their advantages. I believe It is a bit disingenuous to say: *It is a small-pitch device but not impossible to solder*. Really? If you've dropped $750 to $1K for a stereo microscope and other specialized soldering equipment then you can probably do it without too much difficulty. Or some may access to such specialized equipment. But for us *Po Folks* hobbyist we have to stick with older but larger parts. Now if there was a service where you could order the part soldered to a breakout board with .1 inch breakout pins for say, $20 then using many of the latest chips would be feasible. But until then I believe 99.9 percent of us have to find a commercial product or some other workaround. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
Hi One gotcha with Metcal’s is when using a variety of solders. This may not apply in a home environment. It certainly does in industry. Different alloys have different melting temperatures. To match up with them, you change the tip on a Metcal. There are other systems that do this with the twist of a dial. How *does* this apply in the basement lab? When you see that really great deal on tips, check the temperature before you stock up on them. You do want to match things up properly. Bob > On Apr 26, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Bill Notfaded wrote: > > My Metcal is an MX-PS5000 that has two connections for irons. You can use > both at the same time. I just love it. It's the best technology > revolution in soldering ever. It doesn't use traditional resistance to > heat it uses high frequency energy to heat the tip to the exact temperature > and it does it in seconds. It heats and cools every time you pick it up to > use it. It's cool in the magnetic base holder and it heats up by the time > you pick it up and get it to the board in seconds. It then cold down > really fast almost the same way. The temperature is exactly the same every > time. They use them where I work to solder for space applications in > factories. I'm CIS engineer but I've learned what works from watching them. > > Here are the Amazon magnifying glasses I use for soldering. I use the > highest level thickest lenses but you don't have to: > https://www.amazon.com/Dicfeos-Headband-Magnifier-Mounted-Magnifying/dp/B075WR4M99/ref=sxin_9_ac_m_rm > > The price can be right on both the glasses are cheap and you can get used > Metcal from eBay. That's where I got mine. Also new tips are also > everywhere. Everytime a company shuts and sells their stuff it ends up out > there and some is new almost. > > Bill > > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:07 PM Bryan _ wrote: > >> They make quite a few models which one are you recommending? >> >> -=Bryan=- >> >> >> From: time-nuts on behalf of Bill >> Notfaded >> Sent: April 25, 2020 5:38 PM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < >> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits >> >> I totally agree with the Metcal soldering station!!! I'll never go back to >> anything else. I don't even use a scope. I bought some magnifying glasses >> with 5 sets of different power lenses you wear like glasses. It has built >> in led light and adjustable strap that hold it on your head off Amazon. >> Works great. I can do all small surface mount stuff with them. Plus I >> have my normal vision and hand eye coordination going that way. Soldering >> under a scope or on a video monitor is a lesson all in itself! >> >> Bill >> >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:15 AM Gerhard Hoffmann < >> g...@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 25.04.20 um 13:41 schrieb John Ackermann: >>>> I do have a microscope (cheap Chinese unit, maybe $400 with articulated >>> arm and the works) and it does make things much easier. But as long as >> you >>> can see the work, you can do the job. >>>> >>>> It's not that hard to do small pitch parts. I usually do the best I >> can >>> soldering individual pins, knowing their will be bridges, then clean up >>> with solder wick and *lots* of no-clean flux. You can never have too >> much >>> flux. I've found a 1.6 mm chisel tip is a good all around size for SMD >>> work, though I have a 0.8 mm chisel available for when things get tight. >>>> >>>> The hardest part is getting the first couple of pins tacked down so the >>> part is square on the pads. After that it's fast. >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> I have about the same here, plus a cheap Chinese Ayoue852 hot air >>> station. Exchanging the Weller for a Metcal was the biggest improvement >>> after the LED ringlight for the microscope. >>> >>> In my quest to scrutinize the 1/f region, I have built some chopper >>> amplifiers and the newest one will have GaN transistors that are nekkid >>> chips with jut 4 tin bumps below. No case, just the passivated chip, 1 * >>> 1 mm, EPC2038. Low channel resistance, even lower capacitance -> low >>> charge injection. Resistors are 0603. >>> >>> Fearing I could not handle them, I made a minimum version of the switch >>> itself as a test structure in an unoccupied corner of a different >>> project. But soldering did take just 3 m
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
My Metcal is an MX-PS5000 that has two connections for irons. You can use both at the same time. I just love it. It's the best technology revolution in soldering ever. It doesn't use traditional resistance to heat it uses high frequency energy to heat the tip to the exact temperature and it does it in seconds. It heats and cools every time you pick it up to use it. It's cool in the magnetic base holder and it heats up by the time you pick it up and get it to the board in seconds. It then cold down really fast almost the same way. The temperature is exactly the same every time. They use them where I work to solder for space applications in factories. I'm CIS engineer but I've learned what works from watching them. Here are the Amazon magnifying glasses I use for soldering. I use the highest level thickest lenses but you don't have to: https://www.amazon.com/Dicfeos-Headband-Magnifier-Mounted-Magnifying/dp/B075WR4M99/ref=sxin_9_ac_m_rm The price can be right on both the glasses are cheap and you can get used Metcal from eBay. That's where I got mine. Also new tips are also everywhere. Everytime a company shuts and sells their stuff it ends up out there and some is new almost. Bill On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:07 PM Bryan _ wrote: > They make quite a few models which one are you recommending? > > -=Bryan=- > > > From: time-nuts on behalf of Bill > Notfaded > Sent: April 25, 2020 5:38 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits > > I totally agree with the Metcal soldering station!!! I'll never go back to > anything else. I don't even use a scope. I bought some magnifying glasses > with 5 sets of different power lenses you wear like glasses. It has built > in led light and adjustable strap that hold it on your head off Amazon. > Works great. I can do all small surface mount stuff with them. Plus I > have my normal vision and hand eye coordination going that way. Soldering > under a scope or on a video monitor is a lesson all in itself! > > Bill > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:15 AM Gerhard Hoffmann < > g...@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> > wrote: > > > > > Am 25.04.20 um 13:41 schrieb John Ackermann: > > > I do have a microscope (cheap Chinese unit, maybe $400 with articulated > > arm and the works) and it does make things much easier. But as long as > you > > can see the work, you can do the job. > > > > > > It's not that hard to do small pitch parts. I usually do the best I > can > > soldering individual pins, knowing their will be bridges, then clean up > > with solder wick and *lots* of no-clean flux. You can never have too > much > > flux. I've found a 1.6 mm chisel tip is a good all around size for SMD > > work, though I have a 0.8 mm chisel available for when things get tight. > > > > > > The hardest part is getting the first couple of pins tacked down so the > > part is square on the pads. After that it's fast. > > > > > > John > > > > I have about the same here, plus a cheap Chinese Ayoue852 hot air > > station. Exchanging the Weller for a Metcal was the biggest improvement > > after the LED ringlight for the microscope. > > > > In my quest to scrutinize the 1/f region, I have built some chopper > > amplifiers and the newest one will have GaN transistors that are nekkid > > chips with jut 4 tin bumps below. No case, just the passivated chip, 1 * > > 1 mm, EPC2038. Low channel resistance, even lower capacitance -> low > > charge injection. Resistors are 0603. > > > > Fearing I could not handle them, I made a minimum version of the switch > > itself as a test structure in an unoccupied corner of a different > > project. But soldering did take just 3 minutes, it was surprisingly > > easy. Just keep the air flow low enough, or you will have trouble to > > find the chips again. The thick-liquid flux helps to fix the chips in > > place. > > > > Legible part numbers on the board are hopeless at this scale. The board > > was made by PCBway, there were some discussions about having solder mask > > ON part of the pads, and some discussions with our German customs that > > you cannot buy 10 boards for $10 or so. > > > > The chips are the gray squares between the 2 vias on the left and the 4 > > huge coupling capacitors. > > > > Cheers, Gerhard > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
Hi Metcal’s are great soldering setups. They also are *expensive* soldering setups. I mumble and grumble each time I do a re-stock on tips. I know of several plants that tooled up on Metcal’s and then switched to something else after a few years. The issue was never performance. It always was cost. Bob > On Apr 25, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Bill Notfaded wrote: > > I totally agree with the Metcal soldering station!!! I'll never go back to > anything else. I don't even use a scope. I bought some magnifying glasses > with 5 sets of different power lenses you wear like glasses. It has built > in led light and adjustable strap that hold it on your head off Amazon. > Works great. I can do all small surface mount stuff with them. Plus I > have my normal vision and hand eye coordination going that way. Soldering > under a scope or on a video monitor is a lesson all in itself! > > Bill > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:15 AM Gerhard Hoffmann > wrote: > >> >> Am 25.04.20 um 13:41 schrieb John Ackermann: >>> I do have a microscope (cheap Chinese unit, maybe $400 with articulated >> arm and the works) and it does make things much easier. But as long as you >> can see the work, you can do the job. >>> >>> It's not that hard to do small pitch parts. I usually do the best I can >> soldering individual pins, knowing their will be bridges, then clean up >> with solder wick and *lots* of no-clean flux. You can never have too much >> flux. I've found a 1.6 mm chisel tip is a good all around size for SMD >> work, though I have a 0.8 mm chisel available for when things get tight. >>> >>> The hardest part is getting the first couple of pins tacked down so the >> part is square on the pads. After that it's fast. >>> >>> John >> >> I have about the same here, plus a cheap Chinese Ayoue852 hot air >> station. Exchanging the Weller for a Metcal was the biggest improvement >> after the LED ringlight for the microscope. >> >> In my quest to scrutinize the 1/f region, I have built some chopper >> amplifiers and the newest one will have GaN transistors that are nekkid >> chips with jut 4 tin bumps below. No case, just the passivated chip, 1 * >> 1 mm, EPC2038. Low channel resistance, even lower capacitance -> low >> charge injection. Resistors are 0603. >> >> Fearing I could not handle them, I made a minimum version of the switch >> itself as a test structure in an unoccupied corner of a different >> project. But soldering did take just 3 minutes, it was surprisingly >> easy. Just keep the air flow low enough, or you will have trouble to >> find the chips again. The thick-liquid flux helps to fix the chips in >> place. >> >> Legible part numbers on the board are hopeless at this scale. The board >> was made by PCBway, there were some discussions about having solder mask >> ON part of the pads, and some discussions with our German customs that >> you cannot buy 10 boards for $10 or so. >> >> The chips are the gray squares between the 2 vias on the left and the 4 >> huge coupling capacitors. >> >> Cheers, Gerhard >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
On 4/25/2020 6:06 PM, Bryan _ wrote: They make quite a few models which one are you recommending? For soldering, use the Metcal STTC-090 tip ($27.78 from Mouser SKU 745-STTC-090) 0.25mm tip diameter, perfect for 25 mil pitch BE SURE TO GET THE WS1 AUTO-SLEEP WORKSTAND TO SAVE THE TIP! For a microscope, check out "AMScope". You can buy just what you need. I got a completely tricked out setup including a USB camera that goes to a third optical port for only $600. A basic scope might only run $200. Scope buying advise: get a 0.5 power objective lens so you don't have to be so close to the workpiece. Also use somewhat lower power eyepieces to get a bigger field of view. If you need a lot of power once in a while, get a 2nd pair of eyepieces to use on those occasions. Rick N6RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
I personally have an MX-500P I like that it turns itself off if you do not use it after a few minutes, and it takes about 15 seconds to have the tip back into soldering temperature, so there is no reason to leave it on any longer than you need it then and now and the tip won't burn. Tips and accessories are fairly expensive from Metcal but a lot of stuff is available on eBay if you wait a little bit. I have a nice collection of tips for various packages that I have accumulated over the year, and I have the desoldering tool as well. Highly recommended. Didier KO4BB On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 8:07 PM Bryan _ wrote: > They make quite a few models which one are you recommending? > > -=Bryan=- > > > From: time-nuts on behalf of Bill > Notfaded > Sent: April 25, 2020 5:38 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits > > I totally agree with the Metcal soldering station!!! I'll never go back to > anything else. I don't even use a scope. I bought some magnifying glasses > with 5 sets of different power lenses you wear like glasses. It has built > in led light and adjustable strap that hold it on your head off Amazon. > Works great. I can do all small surface mount stuff with them. Plus I > have my normal vision and hand eye coordination going that way. Soldering > under a scope or on a video monitor is a lesson all in itself! > > Bill > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:15 AM Gerhard Hoffmann < > g...@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> > wrote: > > > > > Am 25.04.20 um 13:41 schrieb John Ackermann: > > > I do have a microscope (cheap Chinese unit, maybe $400 with articulated > > arm and the works) and it does make things much easier. But as long as > you > > can see the work, you can do the job. > > > > > > It's not that hard to do small pitch parts. I usually do the best I > can > > soldering individual pins, knowing their will be bridges, then clean up > > with solder wick and *lots* of no-clean flux. You can never have too > much > > flux. I've found a 1.6 mm chisel tip is a good all around size for SMD > > work, though I have a 0.8 mm chisel available for when things get tight. > > > > > > The hardest part is getting the first couple of pins tacked down so the > > part is square on the pads. After that it's fast. > > > > > > John > > > > I have about the same here, plus a cheap Chinese Ayoue852 hot air > > station. Exchanging the Weller for a Metcal was the biggest improvement > > after the LED ringlight for the microscope. > > > > In my quest to scrutinize the 1/f region, I have built some chopper > > amplifiers and the newest one will have GaN transistors that are nekkid > > chips with jut 4 tin bumps below. No case, just the passivated chip, 1 * > > 1 mm, EPC2038. Low channel resistance, even lower capacitance -> low > > charge injection. Resistors are 0603. > > > > Fearing I could not handle them, I made a minimum version of the switch > > itself as a test structure in an unoccupied corner of a different > > project. But soldering did take just 3 minutes, it was surprisingly > > easy. Just keep the air flow low enough, or you will have trouble to > > find the chips again. The thick-liquid flux helps to fix the chips in > > place. > > > > Legible part numbers on the board are hopeless at this scale. The board > > was made by PCBway, there were some discussions about having solder mask > > ON part of the pads, and some discussions with our German customs that > > you cannot buy 10 boards for $10 or so. > > > > The chips are the gray squares between the 2 vias on the left and the 4 > > huge coupling capacitors. > > > > Cheers, Gerhard > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
They make quite a few models which one are you recommending? -=Bryan=- From: time-nuts on behalf of Bill Notfaded Sent: April 25, 2020 5:38 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits I totally agree with the Metcal soldering station!!! I'll never go back to anything else. I don't even use a scope. I bought some magnifying glasses with 5 sets of different power lenses you wear like glasses. It has built in led light and adjustable strap that hold it on your head off Amazon. Works great. I can do all small surface mount stuff with them. Plus I have my normal vision and hand eye coordination going that way. Soldering under a scope or on a video monitor is a lesson all in itself! Bill On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:15 AM Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > > Am 25.04.20 um 13:41 schrieb John Ackermann: > > I do have a microscope (cheap Chinese unit, maybe $400 with articulated > arm and the works) and it does make things much easier. But as long as you > can see the work, you can do the job. > > > > It's not that hard to do small pitch parts. I usually do the best I can > soldering individual pins, knowing their will be bridges, then clean up > with solder wick and *lots* of no-clean flux. You can never have too much > flux. I've found a 1.6 mm chisel tip is a good all around size for SMD > work, though I have a 0.8 mm chisel available for when things get tight. > > > > The hardest part is getting the first couple of pins tacked down so the > part is square on the pads. After that it's fast. > > > > John > > I have about the same here, plus a cheap Chinese Ayoue852 hot air > station. Exchanging the Weller for a Metcal was the biggest improvement > after the LED ringlight for the microscope. > > In my quest to scrutinize the 1/f region, I have built some chopper > amplifiers and the newest one will have GaN transistors that are nekkid > chips with jut 4 tin bumps below. No case, just the passivated chip, 1 * > 1 mm, EPC2038. Low channel resistance, even lower capacitance -> low > charge injection. Resistors are 0603. > > Fearing I could not handle them, I made a minimum version of the switch > itself as a test structure in an unoccupied corner of a different > project. But soldering did take just 3 minutes, it was surprisingly > easy. Just keep the air flow low enough, or you will have trouble to > find the chips again. The thick-liquid flux helps to fix the chips in > place. > > Legible part numbers on the board are hopeless at this scale. The board > was made by PCBway, there were some discussions about having solder mask > ON part of the pads, and some discussions with our German customs that > you cannot buy 10 boards for $10 or so. > > The chips are the gray squares between the 2 vias on the left and the 4 > huge coupling capacitors. > > Cheers, Gerhard > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
I totally agree with the Metcal soldering station!!! I'll never go back to anything else. I don't even use a scope. I bought some magnifying glasses with 5 sets of different power lenses you wear like glasses. It has built in led light and adjustable strap that hold it on your head off Amazon. Works great. I can do all small surface mount stuff with them. Plus I have my normal vision and hand eye coordination going that way. Soldering under a scope or on a video monitor is a lesson all in itself! Bill On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:15 AM Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > > Am 25.04.20 um 13:41 schrieb John Ackermann: > > I do have a microscope (cheap Chinese unit, maybe $400 with articulated > arm and the works) and it does make things much easier. But as long as you > can see the work, you can do the job. > > > > It's not that hard to do small pitch parts. I usually do the best I can > soldering individual pins, knowing their will be bridges, then clean up > with solder wick and *lots* of no-clean flux. You can never have too much > flux. I've found a 1.6 mm chisel tip is a good all around size for SMD > work, though I have a 0.8 mm chisel available for when things get tight. > > > > The hardest part is getting the first couple of pins tacked down so the > part is square on the pads. After that it's fast. > > > > John > > I have about the same here, plus a cheap Chinese Ayoue852 hot air > station. Exchanging the Weller for a Metcal was the biggest improvement > after the LED ringlight for the microscope. > > In my quest to scrutinize the 1/f region, I have built some chopper > amplifiers and the newest one will have GaN transistors that are nekkid > chips with jut 4 tin bumps below. No case, just the passivated chip, 1 * > 1 mm, EPC2038. Low channel resistance, even lower capacitance -> low > charge injection. Resistors are 0603. > > Fearing I could not handle them, I made a minimum version of the switch > itself as a test structure in an unoccupied corner of a different > project. But soldering did take just 3 minutes, it was surprisingly > easy. Just keep the air flow low enough, or you will have trouble to > find the chips again. The thick-liquid flux helps to fix the chips in > place. > > Legible part numbers on the board are hopeless at this scale. The board > was made by PCBway, there were some discussions about having solder mask > ON part of the pads, and some discussions with our German customs that > you cannot buy 10 boards for $10 or so. > > The chips are the gray squares between the 2 vias on the left and the 4 > huge coupling capacitors. > > Cheers, Gerhard > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
Hi For around $10, you likely can get a stencil with your board order. Screening solder on the board can be set up with masking tape and a few scrap boards as “stops”. With the solder paste already in the correct locations, there is a lot less need for messing around. The board can be reflowed with a toaster oven… No, none of that is anything I came up with myself. One of the guys at work was into doing it this way. He ran me through the whole thing. Much easier than the alternatives. Bob > On Apr 25, 2020, at 4:04 PM, ASSI wrote: > > On Samstag, 25. April 2020 16:24:35 CEST John Moran, Scawby Design wrote: >> As a few others have pointed out on this thread, there are some simple >> methods of soldering fine-pitch devices. I use the one already mentioned >> that can be done with a clunky soldering iron, some solder-wick and a low >> power desk lamp magnifier. Oh, and some solder. > > Don't flood that much solder onto the pins, that takes way too much time to > clean up and may be outright impossible to fix on a more densely populated > board. The "right" way to do that type of work is to apply flux liberally > after having tacked down at least two corners, then steadily drag a blob of > fresh solder along the pins. The solder blob stays on the iron, it takes > just > a little bit of practise to learn the best speed of dragging (too fast and > the > solder won't wet the pins, too slow and you get bridging and puddling). If > you have a little bit of bridging here and there, let the part cool down > before cleaning up. I never use solder wick for that. If it's a multi-layer > board with lots of metal you will need to warm it up on a hotplate or with an > hot-air gun set to 120…150°C. > > > Regards, > Achim. > -- > +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ > > Samples for the Waldorf Blofeld: > http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldSamplesExtra > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
On Samstag, 25. April 2020 16:24:35 CEST John Moran, Scawby Design wrote: > As a few others have pointed out on this thread, there are some simple > methods of soldering fine-pitch devices. I use the one already mentioned > that can be done with a clunky soldering iron, some solder-wick and a low > power desk lamp magnifier. Oh, and some solder. Don't flood that much solder onto the pins, that takes way too much time to clean up and may be outright impossible to fix on a more densely populated board. The "right" way to do that type of work is to apply flux liberally after having tacked down at least two corners, then steadily drag a blob of fresh solder along the pins. The solder blob stays on the iron, it takes just a little bit of practise to learn the best speed of dragging (too fast and the solder won't wet the pins, too slow and you get bridging and puddling). If you have a little bit of bridging here and there, let the part cool down before cleaning up. I never use solder wick for that. If it's a multi-layer board with lots of metal you will need to warm it up on a hotplate or with an hot-air gun set to 120…150°C. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Samples for the Waldorf Blofeld: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldSamplesExtra ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
I know this is getting off topic, but one more comment from me. Solder flux is really important. I use nothing but "no clean" type for SMT work -- very thin 0.015 no-clean solder (63/37 PbSn while I still can), and a bottle of liquid no-clean flux with a needle dispenser. I make sure the work is wet with flux before I start, and add as needed. Note that "no clean" isn't strictly that -- it leaves a residue, but it is supposedly non-conductive and doesn't *need* to be removed. But for aesthetics, when I'm finished I dip the board into a bath of isopropyl alcohol and apply a toothbrush. Sometimes after that a distilled water rinse is good if you're a perfectionist. If nothing else, the cleaning makes inspection easier. (But use care... some components, like the uBlox GPS modules, warn against immersion in any kind of liquid.) John On 4/25/20 12:00 PM, Burt I. Weiner wrote: > John, > > What you and I do for SMT type IC's is pretty much the same. > > Several years ago the wife of a close friend was in the re-work business > with a home setup. What she taught me was to first line up one of the > corner pins and tack solder it down. Then do the opposite corner, > center the pin and tack solder it down. Do that with all four corners, > taking care that the pins are properly centered before tack soldering > them. Once you've got the four corners properly in places, then go and > center the remaining pins; depending on the size of the chip, this might > require either a microscope or very pointy eyes. Once all the pins are > properly centered, flow solder over all the pins. At this point > shorting all the pins together is not a problem. > > Once you've flowed soldered across all of the pins you need to slurp up > all of the solder with a fine pitch SolderWick. If done correctly you > will wind up with all of the pins properly soldered and centered. The > next step is to remove and flux using Denatured Alcohol. Once that's > completed, inspect for any possible shorts or pins in the wrong place. > If all looks good, cover your eyes and power it up. > > I have done the above one time on my own and to my utter amazement it > worked! > > Burt, K6OQK > > > At 04:41 AM 4/25/2020, you wrote: >> I do have a microscope (cheap Chinese unit, maybe $400 with >> articulated arm and the works) and it does make things much easier. >> But as long as you can see the work, you can do the job. It's not that >> hard to do small pitch parts. I usually do the best I can soldering >> individual pins, knowing their will be bridges, then clean up with >> solder wick and *lots* of no-clean flux. You can never have too much >> flux. I've found a 1.6 mm chisel tip is a good all around size for >> SMD work, though I have a 0.8 mm chisel available for when things get >> tight. The hardest part is getting the first couple of pins tacked >> down so the part is square on the pads > > Burt I. Weiner Associates > Broadcast Technical Services > Glendale, California U.S.A. > b...@att.net > K6OQK > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
John, What you and I do for SMT type IC's is pretty much the same. Several years ago the wife of a close friend was in the re-work business with a home setup. What she taught me was to first line up one of the corner pins and tack solder it down. Then do the opposite corner, center the pin and tack solder it down. Do that with all four corners, taking care that the pins are properly centered before tack soldering them. Once you've got the four corners properly in places, then go and center the remaining pins; depending on the size of the chip, this might require either a microscope or very pointy eyes. Once all the pins are properly centered, flow solder over all the pins. At this point shorting all the pins together is not a problem. Once you've flowed soldered across all of the pins you need to slurp up all of the solder with a fine pitch SolderWick. If done correctly you will wind up with all of the pins properly soldered and centered. The next step is to remove and flux using Denatured Alcohol. Once that's completed, inspect for any possible shorts or pins in the wrong place. If all looks good, cover your eyes and power it up. I have done the above one time on my own and to my utter amazement it worked! Burt, K6OQK At 04:41 AM 4/25/2020, you wrote: I do have a microscope (cheap Chinese unit, maybe $400 with articulated arm and the works) and it does make things much easier. But as long as you can see the work, you can do the job. It's not that hard to do small pitch parts. I usually do the best I can soldering individual pins, knowing their will be bridges, then clean up with solder wick and *lots* of no-clean flux. You can never have too much flux. I've found a 1.6 mm chisel tip is a good all around size for SMD work, though I have a 0.8 mm chisel available for when things get tight. The hardest part is getting the first couple of pins tacked down so the part is square on the pads Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
Adafruit and Sparkfun sell a remarkable number of SMT parts already on breakout boards for moderate prices. I looked up the three parts and found the DS3231 on a board (two different boards even), in stock and ready to order from Adafruit (most Adafruit and Sparkfun products are also sold through Digikey): https://www.adafruit.com/?q=DS3231 These links bring up the others, each site has hundreds: https://www.adafruit.com/?q=breakout https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=breakout On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:47 PM John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > > Hi Perry -- > > The circuit in the FatPPS is really simple and would be easy to duplicate. > > Frankly, the reason we had to significantly increase the cost is because > we provide the board fully assembled (it's all surface mount parts), and > with the low volume we've had in the last few years, the per-unit > assembly cost has gone way up. > > John > > > On 4/24/20 7:19 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: > > Learned Gentlemen, > > Several poster wrote: > > TAPR offers a FatPPS kit to stretch the pulse out, and it looks likethey're > > back in stock. I have one but haven't assembled it > > yet.https://tapr.org/product/fatpps-pulse-stretcher/ > > OK no problemo. But it's $55. It's probably a great device, but does this > > application warrant such expense? > > I looked up *pulse stretcher circuits* and found over a dozen inexpensive > > circuits. > > > > > > DRV8662and is available from Digikey for $3.35. It is a small-pitch > > device(0.5mm) but not impossible to solder. > > > > RV-3028 is 3.2x1.5 mm in size, 1.5ppm, additionally trimmable, 45 nAstandby > > current, under $3 USD in price and in stock at Mouser andDigikey. > > > > Aswonderful as the DS3231 is, there is a newer chip from Micro Crystalthat > > is smaller, more accurate than the DS3231M, much cheaper, anddraws less > > power > > > > These three chips fall into the *Vaperware Parts* category. Yes, they are > > great chips and I don't mind someone posting their advantages. > > I believe It is a bit disingenuous to say: *It is a small-pitch device but > > not impossible to solder*. > > Really? If you've dropped $750 to $1K for a stereo microscope and other > > specialized soldering equipment then you can probably do it without too > > much difficulty. Or some may access to such specialized equipment. > > But for us *Po Folks* hobbyist we have to stick with older but larger parts. > > Now if there was a service where you could order the part soldered to a > > breakout board with .1 inch breakout pins for say, $20 then using many of > > the latest chips would be feasible. But until then I believe 99.9 percent > > of us have to find a commercial product or some other workaround. > > Regards, > > Perrier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
Here's a good follow along for close pitch soldering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiroWBkdFY Haven't had to solder anything this close pitch but the video is just one in a series of good soldering techniques. Chris -Original Message- From: time-nuts On Behalf Of Hal Murray Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 05:27 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits j...@scawbydesign.co.uk said: > Just to put the record straight, I am a 72-year-old retired > electronics specialist who uses a 50-year-old Weller soldering iron > and a magnified > (x3.5) bench light to solder 64pin 0.5mm pitch MSP430 microprocessors > by hand. As I said - "... not impossible to solder." How long does it take? I've seen a writeup that says roughly, lots of flux, get a blob of solder on the tip of the iron and sweep it across a row of pins. If all goes well, it just works. I haven't tried it. - It was many years ago when I noticed that my eyes getting older had crossed over the pins getting smaller. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
When soldering parts with tight pin spacings, don't forget the trick of clearing shorts between adjacent pins using copper braid freshly wet with liquid flux. The message here is: don't panic if you create a short or even a group of shorts while soldering. It happens all the time and is pretty easy to recover from. Dana On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 5:27 AM Hal Murray wrote: > > j...@scawbydesign.co.uk said: > > Just to put the record straight, I am a 72-year-old retired electronics > > specialist who uses a 50-year-old Weller soldering iron and a magnified > > (x3.5) bench light to solder 64pin 0.5mm pitch MSP430 microprocessors by > > hand. As I said - "... not impossible to solder." > > How long does it take? > > I've seen a writeup that says roughly, lots of flux, get a blob of solder > on > the tip of the iron and sweep it across a row of pins. If all goes well, > it > just works. I haven't tried it. > > - > > It was many years ago when I noticed that my eyes getting older had > crossed > over the pins getting smaller. > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
j...@scawbydesign.co.uk said: > Just to put the record straight, I am a 72-year-old retired electronics > specialist who uses a 50-year-old Weller soldering iron and a magnified > (x3.5) bench light to solder 64pin 0.5mm pitch MSP430 microprocessors by > hand. As I said - "... not impossible to solder." How long does it take? I've seen a writeup that says roughly, lots of flux, get a blob of solder on the tip of the iron and sweep it across a row of pins. If all goes well, it just works. I haven't tried it. - It was many years ago when I noticed that my eyes getting older had crossed over the pins getting smaller. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:19:24 + (UTC) Perry Sandeen said - "I believe It is a bit disingenuous to say: *It is a small-pitch device but not impossible to solder*. Really?? If you've dropped $750 to $1K for a stereo microscope and other specialized soldering equipment then you can probably do it without too much difficulty.? Or some may access to such specialized equipment. But for us *Po Folks* hobbyist we have to stick with older but larger parts." Just to put the record straight, I am a 72-year-old retired electronics specialist who uses a 50-year-old Weller soldering iron and a magnified (x3.5) bench light to solder 64pin 0.5mm pitch MSP430 microprocessors by hand. As I said - "... not impossible to solder." Like you Perry, I am a *Po Folk* :) Kind regards - John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
Hi Perry -- The circuit in the FatPPS is really simple and would be easy to duplicate. Frankly, the reason we had to significantly increase the cost is because we provide the board fully assembled (it's all surface mount parts), and with the low volume we've had in the last few years, the per-unit assembly cost has gone way up. John On 4/24/20 7:19 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: > Learned Gentlemen, > Several poster wrote: > TAPR offers a FatPPS kit to stretch the pulse out, and it looks likethey're > back in stock. I have one but haven't assembled it > yet.https://tapr.org/product/fatpps-pulse-stretcher/ > OK no problemo. But it's $55. It's probably a great device, but does this > application warrant such expense? > I looked up *pulse stretcher circuits* and found over a dozen inexpensive > circuits. > > > DRV8662and is available from Digikey for $3.35. It is a small-pitch > device(0.5mm) but not impossible to solder. > > RV-3028 is 3.2x1.5 mm in size, 1.5ppm, additionally trimmable, 45 nAstandby > current, under $3 USD in price and in stock at Mouser andDigikey. > > Aswonderful as the DS3231 is, there is a newer chip from Micro Crystalthat is > smaller, more accurate than the DS3231M, much cheaper, anddraws less power > > These three chips fall into the *Vaperware Parts* category. Yes, they are > great chips and I don't mind someone posting their advantages. > I believe It is a bit disingenuous to say: *It is a small-pitch device but > not impossible to solder*. > Really? If you've dropped $750 to $1K for a stereo microscope and other > specialized soldering equipment then you can probably do it without too much > difficulty. Or some may access to such specialized equipment. > But for us *Po Folks* hobbyist we have to stick with older but larger parts. > Now if there was a service where you could order the part soldered to a > breakout board with .1 inch breakout pins for say, $20 then using many of the > latest chips would be feasible. But until then I believe 99.9 percent of us > have to find a commercial product or some other workaround. > Regards, > Perrier > > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:20 PM Perry Sandeen via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > But for us *Po Folks* hobbyist we have to stick with older but larger > parts. > Now if there was a service where you could order the part soldered to a > breakout board with .1 inch breakout pins for say, $20 then using many of > the latest chips would be feasible. But until then I believe 99.9 percent > of us have to find a commercial product or some other workaround. > Regards, > Perrier > > Proto Advantage will assemble parts onto any of their breakout boards. I have used them on a couple of occasions, most recently to get a few TDC7200s for a GPSDO project (more on that later) You order the breakout board and specify the Digi-Key part number, and a few days later your assembled breakout board arrives. https://www.proto-advantage.com/store/icsoldering.php -- --Jim Harman ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Vaperware Parts and pulse stretching circuits
Learned Gentlemen, Several poster wrote: TAPR offers a FatPPS kit to stretch the pulse out, and it looks likethey're back in stock. I have one but haven't assembled it yet.https://tapr.org/product/fatpps-pulse-stretcher/ OK no problemo. But it's $55. It's probably a great device, but does this application warrant such expense? I looked up *pulse stretcher circuits* and found over a dozen inexpensive circuits. DRV8662and is available from Digikey for $3.35. It is a small-pitch device(0.5mm) but not impossible to solder. RV-3028 is 3.2x1.5 mm in size, 1.5ppm, additionally trimmable, 45 nAstandby current, under $3 USD in price and in stock at Mouser andDigikey. Aswonderful as the DS3231 is, there is a newer chip from Micro Crystalthat is smaller, more accurate than the DS3231M, much cheaper, anddraws less power These three chips fall into the *Vaperware Parts* category. Yes, they are great chips and I don't mind someone posting their advantages. I believe It is a bit disingenuous to say: *It is a small-pitch device but not impossible to solder*. Really? If you've dropped $750 to $1K for a stereo microscope and other specialized soldering equipment then you can probably do it without too much difficulty. Or some may access to such specialized equipment. But for us *Po Folks* hobbyist we have to stick with older but larger parts. Now if there was a service where you could order the part soldered to a breakout board with .1 inch breakout pins for say, $20 then using many of the latest chips would be feasible. But until then I believe 99.9 percent of us have to find a commercial product or some other workaround. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
