Re: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict?
Just as a personal note, when I was in high school, I was pretty much a C student (had too many other things on my mind including girls, baseball, and music. I applied to the top 5 pharmacy schools in the country (at that time) and, because of my excellent SAT scores was accepted by 4 of them. I don't know if things have changed that much, but my experience was real. Of course, I flunked out of the program at the end of my first year (for the same reasons that I didn't do very well in high school), but after 6 years of real world experience, I returned to school, majored in psychology and got my doctorate in 6 years. Testing can give us some information, but it doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story. - Original Message - From: David Hogberg dhogb...@albion.edu To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? I might add that the same thing happens (w/ some frequency, anyway) with success in graduate school and college test scores, gpa, etc. On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wuens...@ecu.edu wrote: Also seemingly ignored in the recent discourse, although high school grades may better predict college GPA than does the SAT, each explains considerable variance in college GPA that the other does not. Some very able people do not do well in high school. The SAT gives them a chance to show that they are able, and, hopefully, will be more motivated in college than at that high school run by morons. Cheers,From: Mike Palij [mailto:m...@nyu.edu] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:17 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Cc: Michael Palij Subject: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? Consider: the knock on the SATs has recently been that they donot predict job performance or success later in life. But what ifthe SAT is used as a criterion for a job after college? The NY Times has an opinion piece on this which some might findinteresting; see:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/sunday-review/how-businesses-use-your-sats.html?emc=edit_th_20140330nl=todaysheadlinesnlid=389166_r=0 Make sure you read to the end where the explanation is givenas to why Google didn't find a correlation (hint: restriction ofrange may play a role). -Mike PalijNew York universitym...@nyu.edu ---You are currently subscribed to tips as: wuens...@ecu.edu.to unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b3534420en=Tl=tipso=35663(It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken)or send a blank email to leave-35663-13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b35344...@fsulist.frostburg.edu ---You are currently subscribed to tips as: dhogb...@albion.edu.to unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13152.d92d7ec47187a662aacda2d4b4c7628en=Tl=tipso=35677(It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken)or send a blank email to leave-35677-13152.d92d7ec47187a662aacda2d4b4c76...@fsulist.frostburg.edu -- David K. Hogberg, PhD Professor of Psychology, Emeritus Department of Psychological Science Albion College Albion MI 49224 Tel: 517/629-4834 (Home and mobile) ---You are currently subscribed to tips as: drb...@rcn.com.to unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13185.d5346723901d967ccc167929e2ee94adn=Tl=tipso=35678(It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken)or send a blank email to leave-35678-13185.d5346723901d967ccc167929e2ee9...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=35687 or send a blank email to leave-35687-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict?
Dear Tipsters, Going back to the NYT story, I would be very surprised if Frank Schmidt said this about aptitide tests: “Mr. Schmidt acknowledged what some colleges have found: Achievement tests, which measure specific subject mastery, are better predictors than aptitude tests, which measure innate ability.” In addition, the preceding sentence was: “Employers used to consider educational aptitude tests as having nothing to do with the real world, but some may have read enough to know that they’re very highly correlated with job performance,” said Frank Schmidt, an expert on employment testing.” Taken together, it seems that the writer is saying that the SAT, educational aptitude test, is based on innate ability. Ouch. Sincerely, Stuart __ “Recti Cultus Pectora Roborant” Stuart J. McKelvie, Ph.D., Department of Psychology, Bishop’s University, 2600 rue College, Sherbrooke (Borough of Lennoxville), QC J1M 1Z7, Canada. (819)822-9600X2402 “Floreat Labore” __ From: Dr. Bob Wildblood [mailto:drb...@rcn.com] Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:32 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: Re: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? Just as a personal note, when I was in high school, I was pretty much a C student (had too many other things on my mind including girls, baseball, and music. I applied to the top 5 pharmacy schools in the country (at that time) and, because of my excellent SAT scores was accepted by 4 of them. I don't know if things have changed that much, but my experience was real. Of course, I flunked out of the program at the end of my first year (for the same reasons that I didn't do very well in high school), but after 6 years of real world experience, I returned to school, majored in psychology and got my doctorate in 6 years. Testing can give us some information, but it doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story. - Original Message - From: David Hogberg dhogb...@albion.edumailto:dhogb...@albion.edu To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edumailto:tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? I might add that the same thing happens (w/ some frequency, anyway) with success in graduate school and college test scores, gpa, etc. On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wuens...@ecu.edumailto:wuens...@ecu.edu wrote: Also seemingly ignored in the recent discourse, although high school grades may better predict college GPA than does the SAT, each explains considerable variance in college GPA that the other does not. Some very able people do not do well in high school. The SAT gives them a chance to show that they are able, and, hopefully, will be more motivated in college than at that high school run by morons. Cheers, [Karl L. Wuensch]http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/wuenschk/klw.htm From: Mike Palij [mailto:m...@nyu.edumailto:m...@nyu.edu] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:17 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Cc: Michael Palij Subject: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? Consider: the knock on the SATs has recently been that they do not predict job performance or success later in life. But what if the SAT is used as a criterion for a job after college? The NY Times has an opinion piece on this which some might find interesting; see: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/sunday-review/how-businesses-use-your-sats.html?emc=edit_th_20140330nl=todaysheadlinesnlid=389166_r=0 Make sure you read to the end where the explanation is given as to why Google didn't find a correlation (hint: restriction of range may play a role). -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edumailto:m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: wuens...@ecu.edumailto:wuens...@ecu.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b3534420en=Tl=tipso=35663 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-35663-13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b35344...@fsulist.frostburg.edumailto:leave-35663-13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b35344...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: dhogb...@albion.edumailto:dhogb...@albion.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13152.d92d7ec47187a662aacda2d4b4c7628en=Tl=tipso=35677 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-35677-13152.d92d7ec47187a662aacda2d4b4c76...@fsulist.frostburg.edumailto:leave-35677-13152.d92d7ec47187a662aacda2d4b4c76...@fsulist.frostburg.edu -- David K. Hogberg, PhD Professor of Psychology, Emeritus Department of Psychological Science Albion College Albion MI 49224 Tel: 517/629-4834 (Home and mobile) --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: drb
Re: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict?
Obviously, the differences between aptitude and achievement, as well as innate versus whatever the opposite of innate is, are not clear cut. There are varying degrees of overlap between all the these (and innate is too crude to be useful). And SAT is correlated pretty high with g (the exact correlation depends on whether there is range restriction, etc). Further, the bulk of the research predicting job success shows g a better predictor than college grades ... JK == John W. Kulig, Ph.D. Professor of Psychology Coordinator, Psychology Honors Plymouth State University Plymouth NH 03264 == - Original Message - From: Stuart McKelvie smcke...@ubishops.ca To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:42:00 AM Subject: RE: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? Dear Tipsters, Going back to the NYT story, I would be very surprised if Frank Schmidt said this about aptitide tests: “Mr. Schmidt acknowledged what some colleges have found: Achievement tests, which measure specific subject mastery, are better predictors than aptitude tests, which measure innate ability.” In addition, the preceding sentence was: “Employers used to consider educational aptitude tests as having nothing to do with the real world, but some may have read enough to know that they’re very highly correlated with job performance,” said Frank Schmidt, an expert on employment testing.” Taken together, it seems that the writer is saying that the SAT, educational aptitude test, is based on innate ability. Ouch. Sincerely, Stuart __ “ Recti Cultus Pectora Roborant ” Stuart J. McKelvie , Ph.D., Department of Psychology, Bishop’s University, 2600 rue College, Sherbrooke (Borough of Lennoxville), QC J1M 1Z7, Canada. (819)822-9600X2402 “ Floreat Labore ” __ From: Dr. Bob Wildblood [mailto:drb...@rcn.com] Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:32 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: Re: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? Just as a personal note, when I was in high school, I was pretty much a C student (had too many other things on my mind including girls, baseball, and music. I applied to the top 5 pharmacy schools in the country (at that time) and, because of my excellent SAT scores was accepted by 4 of them. I don't know if things have changed that much, but my experience was real. Of course, I flunked out of the program at the end of my first year (for the same reasons that I didn't do very well in high school), but after 6 years of real world experience, I returned to school, majored in psychology and got my doctorate in 6 years. Testing can give us some information, but it doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story. - Original Message - From: David Hogberg dhogb...@albion.edu To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? I might add that the same thing happens (w/ some frequency, anyway) with success in graduate school and college test scores, gpa, etc. On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wuens...@ecu.edu wrote: Also seemingly ignored in the recent discourse, although high school grades may better predict college GPA than does the SAT, each explains considerable variance in college GPA that the other does not. Some very able people do not do well in high school. The SAT gives them a chance to show that they are able, and, hopefully, will be more motivated in college than at that high school run by morons. Cheers, From: Mike Palij [mailto: m...@nyu.edu ] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:17 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Cc: Michael Palij Subject: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? Consider: the knock on the SATs has recently been that they do not predict job performance or success later in life. But what if the SAT is used as a criterion for a job after college? The NY Times has an opinion piece on this which some might find interesting; see: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/sunday-review/how-businesses-use-your-sats.html?emc=edit_th_20140330nl=todaysheadlinesnlid=389166_r=0 Make sure you read to the end where the explanation is given as to why Google didn't find a correlation (hint: restriction of range may play a role). -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: wuens...@ecu.edu . To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b3534420en=Tl=tipso=35663 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email
[tips] What Does The SAT Predict?
Consider: the knock on the SATs has recently been that they do not predict job performance or success later in life. But what if the SAT is used as a criterion for a job after college? The NY Times has an opinion piece on this which some might find interesting; see: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/sunday-review/how-businesses-use-your-sats.html?emc=edit_th_20140330nl=todaysheadlinesnlid=389166_r=0 Make sure you read to the end where the explanation is given as to why Google didn't find a correlation (hint: restriction of range may play a role). -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=35663 or send a blank email to leave-35663-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] What Does The SAT Predict?
I might add that the same thing happens (w/ some frequency, anyway) with success in graduate school and college test scores, gpa, etc. On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wuens...@ecu.edu wrote: Also seemingly ignored in the recent discourse, although high school grades may better predict college GPA than does the SAT, each explains considerable variance in college GPA that the other does not. Some very able people do not do well in high school. The SAT gives them a chance to show that they are able, and, hopefully, will be more motivated in college than at that high school run by morons. Cheers, [image: Karl L. Wuensch] http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/wuenschk/klw.htm *From:* Mike Palij [mailto:m...@nyu.edu] *Sent:* Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:17 AM *To:* Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) *Cc:* Michael Palij *Subject:* [tips] What Does The SAT Predict? Consider: the knock on the SATs has recently been that they do not predict job performance or success later in life. But what if the SAT is used as a criterion for a job after college? The NY Times has an opinion piece on this which some might find interesting; see: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/sunday-review/how-businesses-use-your-sats.html?emc=edit_th_20140330nl=todaysheadlinesnlid=389166_r=0 Make sure you read to the end where the explanation is given as to why Google didn't find a correlation (hint: restriction of range may play a role). -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: wuens...@ecu.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b3534420en=Tl=tipso=35663 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-35663-13060.c78b93d4d09ef6235e9d494b35344...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: dhogb...@albion.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13152.d92d7ec47187a662aacda2d4b4c7628en=Tl=tipso=35677 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-35677-13152.d92d7ec47187a662aacda2d4b4c76...@fsulist.frostburg.edu -- David K. Hogberg, PhD Professor of Psychology, Emeritus Department of Psychological Science Albion College Albion MI 49224 Tel: 517/629-4834 (Home and mobile) --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=35678 or send a blank email to leave-35678-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.eduinline: image001.jpg
