Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
Hiya, On 25/10/2019 16:22, Salz, Rich wrote: > I prefer an informative (not- normative) appendix of, like, 3 > sentences or so. > > This will need all the implementation and operational help it can > get, and scattering things across multiple teensy docs is not > helpful. > I agree with Rich - if a bunch of TLS server code bases adopt this, it'd be better as an appendix to the ESNI spec. However, to help move things along, I submitted [1]. I'm happy to make sensible changes to that however suits other implementers, but that's what I've coded up for now. Cheers, S. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-farrell-tls-pemesni-00 0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
I prefer an informative (not- normative) appendix of, like, 3 sentences or so. This will need all the implementation and operational help it can get, and scattering things across multiple teensy docs is not helpful. ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 7:11 AM Stephen Farrell wrote: > > > On 25/10/2019 15:06, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > OK. I don't think this needs to be documented in this draft, but if you > > wanted to write some other draft > > It doesn't *need* to be in draft-ietf-tls-esni, no, but I > figure it'd be better there as implementers would be less > likely to miss it in that case. But, I'm fine starting off > with the small bit of text needed in a new draft if that's > somehow better than a PR. > Sorry I wasn't clear: I don't think it belongs in this draft, but I don't object to you writing up some other draft. -Ekr > Cheers, > S. > ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
On 25/10/2019 15:06, Eric Rescorla wrote: > OK. I don't think this needs to be documented in this draft, but if you > wanted to write some other draft It doesn't *need* to be in draft-ietf-tls-esni, no, but I figure it'd be better there as implementers would be less likely to miss it in that case. But, I'm fine starting off with the small bit of text needed in a new draft if that's somehow better than a PR. Cheers, S. 0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 7:03 AM Stephen Farrell wrote: > > > On 25/10/2019 14:45, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > Are you suggesting that these strings appear on the wire in DNS? > > Nope. > > > Or is this > > just an internal implementation covnenience? > > A bit more than that, but yes. I have a (temporary) tool for > generating these files and then need to import the output from > that into e.g. nginx or lighttpd. Some applications support > more than one TLS library, so having a well defined format > seems like it'd help with ESNI deployment. > > Basically this is the same logic that lead to pkcs8 PrivateKey > being worth documenting in an RFC. > OK. I don't think this needs to be documented in this draft, but if you wanted to write some other draft -Ekr > Cheers, > S. > > > > > -Ekr > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 3:55 AM Stephen Farrell < > stephen.farr...@cs.tcd.ie> > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Hiya, > >> > >> To date, my ESNI code [1] has been dealing with files containing > >> the binary encoding of ESNIKeys and a separate PEM file containing > >> the related private key. > >> > >> As part of getting nginx to work with ESNI [2], it'd be easier > >> for me to deal with a single file containing both private key > >> and the ESNIKeys (or ESNIConfig) value. (One of the upstream > >> maintainers didn't like how I handled configuring ESNI, so the > >> change is really to make him happier, but I think it's likely > >> a generally useful thing:-) > >> > >> Since mixing binary and PEM encoding in one file would be ickky, > >> it'd be nice if we had a PEM file convention for the public keys > >> used in ESNI. And of course, it'd be much nicer if everyone did > >> the same thing here. > >> > >> What I'm coding up now would handle files like: > >> > >> " > >> -BEGIN ESNIKEY- > >> > >> > /wGeNLTKACQAHQAg/JLBUtPE5wp4CU2bbTihSPeP3113kz1J80X/Iy1Y2EYAAhMBAQQAXO6j > >> /gBc995+AAA= > >> -END ENSIKEY- > >> " > >> > >> ...where the content is (unsurprisingly:-) a base64 encoded ESNIKeys. > >> > >> And if both the private and public components are in one file, > >> it'd look like: > >> > >> " > >> BEGIN PRIVATE KEY- > >> MC4CAQAwBQYDK2VuBCIEICAHxXknil9tI2qZ+USRouNwXp0LxlUB85l0/xbhZ4Va > >> -END PRIVATE KEY- > >> -BEGIN ESNIKEY- > >> > >> > /wGeNLTKACQAHQAg/JLBUtPE5wp4CU2bbTihSPeP3113kz1J80X/Iy1Y2EYAAhMBAQQAXO6j > >> /gBc995+AAA= > >> -END ENSIKEY- > >> " > >> > >> I'd be happy to change that however increases the probability > >> that other code bases do the same thing. > >> > >> If this is useful, I could do up a PR with a bit of text saying > >> to use "ESNIKEY" (or whatever) as the label when storing these > >> things in PEM files. Given RFC7468 documents other PEM file > >> things, it seems reasonable to do the same for ESNI. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> S. > >> > >> [1] https://github.com/sftcd/openssl/tree/master/esnistuff > >> [2] https://github.com/sftcd/nginx > >> ___ > >> TLS mailing list > >> TLS@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls > >> > > > ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
On 25/10/2019 14:45, Eric Rescorla wrote: > Are you suggesting that these strings appear on the wire in DNS? Nope. > Or is this > just an internal implementation covnenience? A bit more than that, but yes. I have a (temporary) tool for generating these files and then need to import the output from that into e.g. nginx or lighttpd. Some applications support more than one TLS library, so having a well defined format seems like it'd help with ESNI deployment. Basically this is the same logic that lead to pkcs8 PrivateKey being worth documenting in an RFC. Cheers, S. > > -Ekr > > > On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 3:55 AM Stephen Farrell > wrote: > >> >> Hiya, >> >> To date, my ESNI code [1] has been dealing with files containing >> the binary encoding of ESNIKeys and a separate PEM file containing >> the related private key. >> >> As part of getting nginx to work with ESNI [2], it'd be easier >> for me to deal with a single file containing both private key >> and the ESNIKeys (or ESNIConfig) value. (One of the upstream >> maintainers didn't like how I handled configuring ESNI, so the >> change is really to make him happier, but I think it's likely >> a generally useful thing:-) >> >> Since mixing binary and PEM encoding in one file would be ickky, >> it'd be nice if we had a PEM file convention for the public keys >> used in ESNI. And of course, it'd be much nicer if everyone did >> the same thing here. >> >> What I'm coding up now would handle files like: >> >> " >> -BEGIN ESNIKEY- >> >> /wGeNLTKACQAHQAg/JLBUtPE5wp4CU2bbTihSPeP3113kz1J80X/Iy1Y2EYAAhMBAQQAXO6j >> /gBc995+AAA= >> -END ENSIKEY- >> " >> >> ...where the content is (unsurprisingly:-) a base64 encoded ESNIKeys. >> >> And if both the private and public components are in one file, >> it'd look like: >> >> " >> BEGIN PRIVATE KEY- >> MC4CAQAwBQYDK2VuBCIEICAHxXknil9tI2qZ+USRouNwXp0LxlUB85l0/xbhZ4Va >> -END PRIVATE KEY- >> -BEGIN ESNIKEY- >> >> /wGeNLTKACQAHQAg/JLBUtPE5wp4CU2bbTihSPeP3113kz1J80X/Iy1Y2EYAAhMBAQQAXO6j >> /gBc995+AAA= >> -END ENSIKEY- >> " >> >> I'd be happy to change that however increases the probability >> that other code bases do the same thing. >> >> If this is useful, I could do up a PR with a bit of text saying >> to use "ESNIKEY" (or whatever) as the label when storing these >> things in PEM files. Given RFC7468 documents other PEM file >> things, it seems reasonable to do the same for ESNI. >> >> Cheers, >> S. >> >> [1] https://github.com/sftcd/openssl/tree/master/esnistuff >> [2] https://github.com/sftcd/nginx >> ___ >> TLS mailing list >> TLS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls >> > 0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
Are you suggesting that these strings appear on the wire in DNS? Or is this just an internal implementation covnenience? -Ekr On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 3:55 AM Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Hiya, > > To date, my ESNI code [1] has been dealing with files containing > the binary encoding of ESNIKeys and a separate PEM file containing > the related private key. > > As part of getting nginx to work with ESNI [2], it'd be easier > for me to deal with a single file containing both private key > and the ESNIKeys (or ESNIConfig) value. (One of the upstream > maintainers didn't like how I handled configuring ESNI, so the > change is really to make him happier, but I think it's likely > a generally useful thing:-) > > Since mixing binary and PEM encoding in one file would be ickky, > it'd be nice if we had a PEM file convention for the public keys > used in ESNI. And of course, it'd be much nicer if everyone did > the same thing here. > > What I'm coding up now would handle files like: > > " > -BEGIN ESNIKEY- > > /wGeNLTKACQAHQAg/JLBUtPE5wp4CU2bbTihSPeP3113kz1J80X/Iy1Y2EYAAhMBAQQAXO6j > /gBc995+AAA= > -END ENSIKEY- > " > > ...where the content is (unsurprisingly:-) a base64 encoded ESNIKeys. > > And if both the private and public components are in one file, > it'd look like: > > " > BEGIN PRIVATE KEY- > MC4CAQAwBQYDK2VuBCIEICAHxXknil9tI2qZ+USRouNwXp0LxlUB85l0/xbhZ4Va > -END PRIVATE KEY- > -BEGIN ESNIKEY- > > /wGeNLTKACQAHQAg/JLBUtPE5wp4CU2bbTihSPeP3113kz1J80X/Iy1Y2EYAAhMBAQQAXO6j > /gBc995+AAA= > -END ENSIKEY- > " > > I'd be happy to change that however increases the probability > that other code bases do the same thing. > > If this is useful, I could do up a PR with a bit of text saying > to use "ESNIKEY" (or whatever) as the label when storing these > things in PEM files. Given RFC7468 documents other PEM file > things, it seems reasonable to do the same for ESNI. > > Cheers, > S. > > [1] https://github.com/sftcd/openssl/tree/master/esnistuff > [2] https://github.com/sftcd/nginx > ___ > TLS mailing list > TLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls > ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
Hiya, On 25/10/2019 13:25, Salz, Rich wrote: > Is the private key PKCS8? Eh... not sure and didn't ever look:-) It's what I got from PEM_write_PrivateKey() But now that I do look, yep it's a PKCS8 PrivateKey. Cheers, S. > If not, then perhaps "ESNI PRIVATE KEY" is better. > > Overall, yes, plus-one. > > 0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
Re: [TLS] ESNI PEM files
Is the private key PKCS8? If not, then perhaps "ESNI PRIVATE KEY" is better. Overall, yes, plus-one. ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
