Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
Boris Pavlov wrote: /var/qmail is not the very-right place for binaries. the prohibition of the binary form effectively left qmail out of many distributions. the distributions will change these paths, so, why do not put them configurable at ./configure? There is hope. The netqmail team has mentioned something about lsb compatibility. My current plan is to see what they come up with. Actually my plan is just to continue using this toaster how ever it turns out, and spend my spare time on vpopmail. Rick
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
/var/qmail is not the very-right place for binaries. the prohibition of the binary form effectively left qmail out of many distributions. the distributions will change these paths, so, why do not put them configurable at ./configure? Rick Widmer wrote: Lampa wrote: Of course but it can be implement in normal locations (not /var/qmail), binary can becked in many distributions and not need patches Which will break every program that manages qmail, including vpopmail. I believe the fact that all qmail installations are the same is one of its greatest strengths. In the document that releases qmail to the public Dr. Bernstein specifically asks people not to do that. This does not mean that modifications are encouraged! Please take time to ensure that your distribution of qmail supports exactly the same interface as everyone else's. In particular, if you move files, please set up symbolic links from the original locations, so that you don't frivolously break scripts that work everywhere else.
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
I don't see much difference between then and now, it's the same thing. Giving Qmail to the public domain, in my opinion, is a bad move. Now x, y and z versions of Qmail will start to pop-up each and everyone of them with their installation methods and alterations to the original code. I don't also see a very big deal out of this because noone stoped you before to make yourself binary packages with your qmail if you needed a rapid deployment solution. As long as you did not redistributed those binary packages. I would rather see a new version of qmail with some feature updates and bug fixes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Dec 3, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Bill Shupp wrote: It's official: http://cr.yp.to/qmail/dist.html And according to this article, all his software is in public domain: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/11/30/0430201.shtml I haven't checked them all yet. Awesome news.. So what are your plans in lieu of this? Any changes to your toaster as a result? I don't have any solid plans at the moment, as I'm pretty busy with other stuff right now. I'd love to have the time to maintain debian packages of the whole toaster suite. But the src install instructions are pretty handy to have, especially when working with some of the BSD variants and OS X. And as of now, I'm only aware of qmail being in the public domain. So there would be issues with the other related packages until that changes. But I suspect there will be different efforts. Some folks will maintain OS specific binary packages, some will stick with DBJ specific locations for their packages, etc. I'm sure the QmailToaster guys will switch over to binary rpms pretty quickly, as their system is pretty automated. Anyway, I'll be getting back to a toaster update soon, as it's a little out of date. But it may not be much different at the moment. I'm actually more interested in finishing up ToasterAdmin now that Net_Vpopmaild has been release through PEAR. Regards, Bill Shupp -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHVNfWi7Tq+kmcqjURAiORAJ42njlU+29pWYKNMZYwhGnRh9F1nQCdHWU/ a/2BrCfUm9HbiCoIZpIKYbI= =6y1R -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
I would like (at least!) things like qmail/netqmail and vpopmail in one box.. and bundled (at least!) in some of distros! edi. PS mr.Bill, care to make a move? :) Edvin Seferovic wrote: I don't also see a very big deal out of this because noone stoped you before to make yourself binary packages with your qmail if you needed a rapid deployment solution. As long as you did not redistributed those binary packages. I would rather see a new version of qmail with some feature updates and bug fixes. ACK :) You read my mind ! A new documentation would be interesting too ! Regards, E:S
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
Daniel, you are really messed all the things up: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see much difference between then and now, it's the same thing. Giving Qmail to the public domain, in my opinion, is a bad move. Now x, y and z versions of Qmail will start to pop-up each and everyone of them with their installation methods and alterations to the original code. Yup. Actually, they already do. Someone call them patches. someone 'toasters'. I guess that Shupp is one of the X Y or Z's :) I don't also see a very big deal out of this because noone stoped you before to make yourself binary packages with your qmail if you needed a rapid deployment solution. [note this:] As long as you did not redistributed those binary packages. or source packages. or anything modified. I would rather see a new version of qmail with some feature updates and bug fixes. yeah, that's the first step. Actually, releasing qmail in such a way does give a way to people or groups like Bill or the people ho do use his toaster to make source OR binary bundles instead of installing dev packages like crazy. Boris Pavlov
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
Maybe i didn't expressed myself clearly enough :) A patch is a patch not a binary distributed package on which you do not have any control, and if you need to change something you need go back to compiling from sources which we already do anyway. A toaster will continue to exist beyond the binary qmail versions released since a toaster is in essence a collection of multiple tools that work together to compose the modern mail service that we are all used to these days. One more personal conclusion: The fact that i know so much today regarding how qmail works and e-mail in general is because i needed to build it from sources instead of rpm -ivh qmail ;) Daniel, you are really messed all the things up: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see much difference between then and now, it's the same thing. Giving Qmail to the public domain, in my opinion, is a bad move. Now x, y and z versions of Qmail will start to pop-up each and everyone of them with their installation methods and alterations to the original code. Yup. Actually, they already do. Someone call them patches. someone 'toasters'. I guess that Shupp is one of the X Y or Z's :) I don't also see a very big deal out of this because noone stoped you before to make yourself binary packages with your qmail if you needed a rapid deployment solution. [note this:] As long as you did not redistributed those binary packages. or source packages. or anything modified. I would rather see a new version of qmail with some feature updates and bug fixes. yeah, that's the first step. Actually, releasing qmail in such a way does give a way to people or groups like Bill or the people ho do use his toaster to make source OR binary bundles instead of installing dev packages like crazy. Boris Pavlov
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Bill Shupp wrote: It's official: http://cr.yp.to/qmail/dist.html And according to this article, all his software is in public domain: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/11/30/0430201.shtml I haven't checked them all yet. Awesome news.. So what are your plans in lieu of this? Any changes to your toaster as a result? Regards, Bill - -- - --- Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold Engine / Technology Programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] RedHat Certified - RHCE # 803004140609871 MySQL Pro Certified - ID# 207171862 MySQL Core Certified - ID# 205982910 - --- Something mysterious is formed, born in the silent void. Waiting alone and unmoving, it is at once still and yet in constant motion. It is the source of all programs. I do not know its name, so I will call it the Tao of Programming. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHVCsnhR5xme3cl74RApJaAJ963W5P5/TS8MkBNEgWdj0xP5dC4ACfRDsi rF3yvp1EGGs01kq8zzgV/s0= =lPnN -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
That is really awesome. I am wondering if this will make a lot of toaster scripts obsolete. We can now precompile qmail and distribute it in binary form. May we not? -sasa
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
Sasa Ebach wrote: That is really awesome. I am wondering if this will make a lot of toaster scripts obsolete. We can now precompile qmail and distribute it in binary form. May we not? Looking at this toaster, I don't see it making that much difference. Bill can now pre-package qmail + netqmail_patches + his patches. That only saves a few steps. It doesn't change vpopmail, autorespond, qmailadmin, squirrelmail or courier-imap. They are all separate projects with separate release dates the toaster author must integrate. Rick
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
Of course but it can be implement in normal locations (not /var/qmail), binary can becked in many distributions and not need patches but maybe will be problem with versions (shupp toaster and others), maybe will be netqmail continue (everything will be on author of toaster what will he put in bainary form) - it's sounds that making from source is better, right ;) 2007/12/3, Rick Widmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sasa Ebach wrote: That is really awesome. I am wondering if this will make a lot of toaster scripts obsolete. We can now precompile qmail and distribute it in binary form. May we not? Looking at this toaster, I don't see it making that much difference. Bill can now pre-package qmail + netqmail_patches + his patches. That only saves a few steps. It doesn't change vpopmail, autorespond, qmailadmin, squirrelmail or courier-imap. They are all separate projects with separate release dates the toaster author must integrate. Rick -- Lampa
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
Lampa wrote: Of course but it can be implement in normal locations (not /var/qmail), binary can becked in many distributions and not need patches Which will break every program that manages qmail, including vpopmail. I believe the fact that all qmail installations are the same is one of its greatest strengths. In the document that releases qmail to the public Dr. Bernstein specifically asks people not to do that. This does not mean that modifications are encouraged! Please take time to ensure that your distribution of qmail supports exactly the same interface as everyone else's. In particular, if you move files, please set up symbolic links from the original locations, so that you don't frivolously break scripts that work everywhere else.
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
Bill can now pre-package qmail + netqmail_patches + his patches. That only saves a few steps. It doesn't change vpopmail, autorespond, qmailadmin, squirrelmail or courier-imap. They are all separate projects with separate release dates the toaster author must integrate. Yes, but now all of these can now be precompiled. I am thinking about a complete package with all dependencies precompiled and on for example Debian Etch all you would do is: apt-get install qmail-base qmail-smtpd qmail-smtpds qmail-whatever-you-need and all will be installed in like 30 seconds. Of course you would still need to configure a bunch of settings, especially how all the packages are supposed to interact. But there could be lots of sensible defaults for standard scenarios. I think that is what they do with exim on debian. So for the uninitiated it would still take a couple of days to get everything right, but not like 6 weeks (this was in 2003 when I first really learned linux and qmail at the same time), like in my case :( So I think this is going to happen sooner or later. At least on Debian. -sasa
Re: [toaster] qmail in public domain
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Dec 3, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Bill Shupp wrote: It's official: http://cr.yp.to/qmail/dist.html And according to this article, all his software is in public domain: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/11/30/0430201.shtml I haven't checked them all yet. Awesome news.. So what are your plans in lieu of this? Any changes to your toaster as a result? I don't have any solid plans at the moment, as I'm pretty busy with other stuff right now. I'd love to have the time to maintain debian packages of the whole toaster suite. But the src install instructions are pretty handy to have, especially when working with some of the BSD variants and OS X. And as of now, I'm only aware of qmail being in the public domain. So there would be issues with the other related packages until that changes. But I suspect there will be different efforts. Some folks will maintain OS specific binary packages, some will stick with DBJ specific locations for their packages, etc. I'm sure the QmailToaster guys will switch over to binary rpms pretty quickly, as their system is pretty automated. Anyway, I'll be getting back to a toaster update soon, as it's a little out of date. But it may not be much different at the moment. I'm actually more interested in finishing up ToasterAdmin now that Net_Vpopmaild has been release through PEAR. Regards, Bill Shupp -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHVNfWi7Tq+kmcqjURAiORAJ42njlU+29pWYKNMZYwhGnRh9F1nQCdHWU/ a/2BrCfUm9HbiCoIZpIKYbI= =6y1R -END PGP SIGNATURE-
