RE: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
At 06:02 AM 05/12/01, you wrote: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. So, any insight on the little penguins? I've given up on discussing Tomcat. I assume he's referring to the little penguin that is the Linux mascot... I think it's what is technically known as a joke - a sentence with humourous intent. The precise semantic meaning of the phrase is *not* of importance, but rather the overall effect. I would say that the penguins are apocryphal, much the same way as the famous road-crossing chicken. Jim -- * Jim Cheesman * Trabajo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (34)(91) 724 9200 x 2360 What is a free gift? Aren't all gifts free? -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. So, any insight on the little penguins? I've given up on discussing Tomcat. I assume he's referring to the little penguin that is the Linux mascot... I think it's what is technically known as a joke - a sentence with humourous intent. The precise semantic meaning of the phrase is *not* of importance, but rather the overall effect. I would say that the penguins are apocryphal, much the same way as the famous road-crossing chicken. That was a tagline and, yes, it is usually a humourous content. The reason why I asked is because it sounded familiar. I recall seeing a tagline: You're jealous because the voices are talking to me. I thought it all had a root in some literature. Nix.
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
java programmer wrote: snip webapps should never have made it into the spec. Name three well known web sites running in a mass virtual hosted environment and deployed as webapps with a web.xml file to boot ! Hell, name *any*. /snip Hi, We're the main european hub for bioinformatics research and resources, the fact that webapps exist and can be packaged is incredibly useful to us. The management of different projects, produced by different groups but wishing to reside in the same container, would otherwise be annoying and tedious, with the webapp concept it's relatively trivial. This is not running in a virtual hosted environment because we're sitting on top of the academic backbone here and run our own machines, but the point still holds; there are definite circumstances where modular applications are of extremely high value. Cheers, Tom oh, and btw : And the kicker is the gratuitous, idiotic use of XML for _configuration_. For you to say: No problem with XML for config, it's just a more specific case of text config files, and at least the structure is easy to use. Conceptually, if you're configuring a system that is intrinsically hierarchical, doesn't it make sense to use a configuration mechanism that shared this property? servlet.xml cannot have DTD, since people can add their own stuff (classes), instantiate it in server.xml, and name it the way they want, shows that you have no conceptual idea what xml is intended for. However, this is true :) -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
webapps should never have made it into the spec. Name three well known web sites running in a mass virtual hosted environment and deployed as webapps with a web.xml file to boot ! Hell, name *any*. We're the main european hub for bioinformatics research and resources, the fact that webapps exist and can be packaged is incredibly useful to us. Missed this earlier... We at the Ordnance Survey UK find this a very useful thing too. Saying ASP did it like that and it was better is quite amusing though. It makes me think he must have been trolling, cos he can't have been serious ;-) Justin. -- You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. *** For more information on Ordnance Survey products and services, visit our web site at http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk *** -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
You know what ? Even though -java programmer- sounds rude, I must admit that all his points are right Apache's docs is just slightly better than Tomcat's, but since its structure is not so complicated, Apache is easier to learn. Browsing through Tomcat's docs gets you nowhere. *sigh* Its configuration is somewhat confusing. I mean.. what is a webapps ? It would help if there is a simple tutorial to create one. And I havent solve this mod_webapp thing... :( -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
A collection of java designer's newsgroup posts can be found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?[EMAIL PROTECTED]hl=enlr=safe=off;
btnG=Google+Searchsite=groups
Looks like s/he can be nice to people when in good mood. Surprisingly, none
of his posts is Java related.
--V.
- Original Message -
From: java programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jan Labanowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
--- Jan Labanowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You must be working for Microsoft, I assume...
BTW... servlet.xml cannot have DTD, since people can
add their own stuff
(classes), instantiate it in server.xml, and name it
the way they want,
and DTD would not allow it...
Jan
Please don't top post. Replies go under the
original post. Only MS weenies with MS outlook
top post.
Ok. I am going to rant here.
rant
Tomcat 3.3.x's internals really suck. I have looked
at probably all of the JDK source over the past
5 years and tomcat is at the very bottom in terms
of quality, readability, even trivialities like
source code formatting/comments.
JSP/Servlets are *important*. They are probably the
most important java api, now that java has proven
to be a total failure on the client side. (java, in
general, is *great* though).
Now, it wouldn't be so bad that tomcat is a internal
mess, if the exposed API/interface was pleasant.
By this I mean, installing, configuring, extending,
and documentation. Tomcat falls down in all areas.
I mean, I really am very frustrated. There should be
no reason to be.
Let's take a simple, yet real world example of 2
virtual hosts, each served by Tomcat.
Well, do I use:
a) 1 tomcat instance with 1 server.xml file with
different AutoWebApps ? (have you seen how
terse the autowebapp doc is ? They don't even
say if the host name param should be a FQDN) ?
b) 2 separate instances of tomcat with 2 separate
server.xml files ?
c) Some other random, trial by fire combo ?
I mean, in places, the docs say that version 3.3
and earler require separate instances of Tomcat.
Other places, they say things like: You can add
apps to multiple virtual hosts. (implying 1
tomcat server ?).
I don't know. The JSPException that I described in
the original post, is not really documented
anywhere. Tomcat should have printed a meaningful
message when that happened. Just barfing up the
Exception itself, doesn't help me, i.e., the end
user at all.
There isn't any real documentation, and whatever
there is, is mutually incompatible in many places.
Is this the best Sun/Apache can do ?
And on a personal note: I think the whole webapp
idea is silly. It sounds promising of course, but
it complicates things for most people. If I am
running a web site, run with jsp's, then I want:
apache (httpd)
|
|_some doc root
|
|__ all .html, .jsp files, images here.
And only one context (/).
In addition, path or extension based mappings
_are_ useful but should be the _sole_ domain of
the web server. That would be Apache in my case.
That's how ASP works, that's how LiveWire used
to work. I don't want my images, files etc., all
over the place. I want them all under the htdocs
directory. (yeah, I know I can do it, but I want
that to be the default out of box tomcat behavior).
webapps should never have made it
into the spec. Name three well known
web sites running in a mass virtual hosted
environment and deployed as webapps with
a web.xml file to boot ! Hell, name *any*.
And the kicker is the gratuitous, idiotic
use of XML for _configuration_. For you to say:
servlet.xml cannot have DTD, since people can
add their own stuff
(classes), instantiate it in server.xml, and name it
the way they want,
shows that you have no conceptual idea what xml is
intended for.
Java:
class foo {
//variables (structure)
}
C:
struct {
//variables (structure)
}
Database:
create table [ .. columns/structure ..]
BNF:
syntax ::= { rule }
rule ::= identifier ::= expression
expression ::= term { | term }
term ::= factor { factor }
[..]
XML is similar to the above 4. XML is a way to
*define*/*create* new and arbitrary data
formats (although somewhat limited compared
to BNF type grammars). This way, I know and
you know what we are saying when we exhange data.
If there is _no_ format (dtd), there _is_ no
structure. That's a shoddy development time
hack only. Tomcat has been deployed for years
now. There is no excuse not to have a server.dtd.
Here's a factoid for the sun team: If I
had the money, I would buy ServletExec or maybe
JRun. I have been hacking java since '94 and
I am frustrated with how inelegant 3.3 feels.
The Sun/Apache team can learn a great
deal either of those 2 distros. (I am not talking
about fancy installers or GUI's but about
documentation and error handling
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
Unfortunately, you missed the point... - Original Message - From: java programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun Vladimir Grishchenko [EMAIL PROTECTED], looked up from a pending proctological exam, butthole opening, and contracting and gushing rectal mucous and opined: I used almost every version of TC since 3.x to 4.0. [..a buncha crap flushed..] Jeez. It must be part of the human condition that there really is no escape from stupidity. Here I was, looking for a cogent response, and I get a blazing cretin, with _no_ suggestion to offer save for proclaming a wholesome and beautiful experience with Tomcat. My, my all the way back to version 3.0 you say ? The irony of your _top_ _post_,(produced more than likely with gatesian trash I wouldn't rely on to so much as prop the outhouse door), with all_ of the original post intact, is as they say, quite delicious. Best regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
You know what ? Even though -java programmer- sounds rude, I must admit that all his points are right Some of them... Apache's docs is just slightly better than Tomcat's, but since its structure is not so complicated, True (Budwiser TM), and it is better documented. Apache is easier to learn. Browsing through Tomcat's docs gets you nowhere. *sigh* It looks more like an incomplete pile, than a documentation. I know, we can contribute if we want to make things better. The trouble is, I don't have the time. I'm spending so much time fighting ghosts + developing an application, that I simply cannot manage to write down what I've discovered so far. Its configuration is somewhat confusing. I mean.. what is a webapps? You mean a context? Ha, we have a problem, right here. It would help if there is a simple tutorial to create one. I second that. And, NO, I cannot write one, because I haven't got all the clues in, yet. At the moment, I have two points of trouble: - connecting Apache+mod_webapp to a Tomcat with virtual hosts on another machine - whether or not I should have virtual hosts inside Warp Connector in server.xml Anyone care to make a donation? And I havent solve this mod_webapp thing... :( I'm still bugging with it, myself. A really good tutorial or at least a set of guidelines of what to do and what to avoid would be appreciated. Nix.
RE: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
Hi guys, I really appreciate those mails below. I takes my mind off all my (technical) worries and the pressure I've meanwhile the day :-)) We still shouldn't forget that all the guys are doing that for nothing and are helping us earning our money ! AND we shouldn't forget to laugh...at least once a day !? Oliver Okay. Now, I have to meddle. I'd say that being on the development team of TomCat might not actually make you rich - but it sure rubs off on your carreer. My guess is that you'll find actually getting paid for doing something is a lot easier if you can state I'm on the Jakarta TomCat development team Mr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] has a bunch of valid points. The configuration IS messy. I've worked with TomCat for a good while now, and I still find my self crossing my fingers everytime I add a new context to server.xml. The documentation is absolute rubbish. The FAQ does not help very much either. If more people spoke freely like javadesigner, things would look different. And, it's pretty fun to read rants like that. Me, I'm still hoping to get TomCat running on my dual-cpu machines one day. But, I'm not betting on it. /christopher -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
Please don't top post. Replies go under the original post. Only MS weenies with MS outlook top post. Agreed. Ok. I am going to rant here. You want to complain? About a free product?! *Do* something *constructive* instead, like help with the project or the documentation. Enough said. No flaming, no name-calling. Justin. -- You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. *** For more information on Ordnance Survey products and services, visit our web site at http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk *** -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
Ok. I am going to rant here. You want to complain? About a free product?! *Do* something *constructive* instead, like help with the project or the documentation. OK. Let's be constructive. Let's say I'm a newcomer to Tomcat, just as I was a couple of months ago... How am I supposed to write docs? OTOH, now I am more experienced, I am head-strong, I WANT TO SEE THIS WORK. Could someone attend to my problems and in exchange I'll write about my epic ventures into Tomcat virtual hosting, connecting to Apache, etc.? I'm prepared to make a deal. You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. Where is this from? Nix.
RE: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
OK. Let's be constructive. Let's say I'm a newcomer to Tomcat, just as I was a couple of months ago... How am I supposed to write docs? You're not. You're supposed to hang out on lists like this one till you know what you are doing and then write docs. Complaining that no-one has done is useless. OTOH, now I am more experienced, I am head-strong, I WANT TO SEE THIS WORK. Could someone attend to my problems and in exchange I'll write about my epic ventures into Tomcat virtual hosting, connecting to Apache, etc.? I'm prepared to make a deal. I think the voluntary principle of this sort of project is passing you by ;-) I suspect that very little work could produce a decent FAQ based on this list. Who knows, I might even do it myself one day. You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. Where is this from? Inside my head. Please don't nick it, it's personal to me. J. -- You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. *** For more information on Ordnance Survey products and services, visit our web site at http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk *** -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. So, any insight on the little penguins? I've given up on discussing Tomcat. Nix.
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
We KNOW the docs are tough to understand! That's why it is so important to be on this list! (And to be nice so you get some answers back besides flames) --- Nikola Milutinovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know what ? Even though -java programmer- sounds rude, I must admit that all his points are right Some of them... Apache's docs is just slightly better than Tomcat's, but since its structure is not so complicated, True (Budwiser TM), and it is better documented. Apache is easier to learn. Browsing through Tomcat's docs gets you nowhere. *sigh* It looks more like an incomplete pile, than a documentation. I know, we can contribute if we want to make things better. The trouble is, I don't have the time. I'm spending so much time fighting ghosts + developing an application, that I simply cannot manage to write down what I've discovered so far. Its configuration is somewhat confusing. I mean.. what is a webapps? You mean a context? Ha, we have a problem, right here. It would help if there is a simple tutorial to create one. I second that. And, NO, I cannot write one, because I haven't got all the clues in, yet. At the moment, I have two points of trouble: - connecting Apache+mod_webapp to a Tomcat with virtual hosts on another machine - whether or not I should have virtual hosts inside Warp Connector in server.xml Anyone care to make a donation? And I havent solve this mod_webapp thing... :( I'm still bugging with it, myself. A really good tutorial or at least a set of guidelines of what to do and what to avoid would be appreciated. Nix. __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
Okay. Now, I have to meddle. Mr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] has a bunch of valid points. Regardless, it is entirely possible to make a point without being uncivil. Esp. since the folks s/he's asking the questions of are *volunteering* the time to answer the questions, and it is known that they embody a wide range of experience levels. -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. So, any insight on the little penguins? I've given up on discussing Tomcat. I assume he's referring to the little penguin that is the Linux mascot... -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
I'm not usually practicing help to rude people but I'll make an exception
and will give you a hint.
I used almost every version of TC since 3.x to 4.0. Yes, I had problems
starting it and moments of frustration, but all issues turned out to be my
fault mostly due to my incompetence at that time. I think you're no
exception. I'll also give you a free advice. If you want to get help here
then change your attitude, otherwise your voice will be lost in the noise.
Sincerely,
--V.
- Original Message -
From: java programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 6:06 PM
Subject: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
Hi all:
Tomcat 3.3 (on linux) seems to be quite shoddily
developed. Surprising that, given it's high
visibility and posture.
Consider for instance:
I downloaded the binary distro of tomcat 3.3.
I have set and exported both TOMCAT_HOME and
JAVA_HOME. Compiled and installed mod_jk.so
too. (against Apache 1.3.22).
All I have to do is edit/configure the
conf/server.xml file and I should be well
on my way right ?
Well let' see.
shell vi server.xml
shell tomcat.sh start -jkconf
EmbededTomcat: exception initializing ContextManager
java.lang.NullPointerException at
org.apache.tomcat.facade.JspInterceptor.addContext(Unknown
Source)
[..bunch of stack trace crap here ..]
Hmm. The message above gives me *no* more information.
Nothing looks obviously wrong with the server.xml
file, let's validate it using the W3C validator.
But wait, there is *NO* server.dtd. There is only a
description in the manual which says:
--- quote --
This is the main element in server.xml. It has a
single child describing the tomcat configuration,
ContextManager.
Examples
Server
ContextManager
... ( tomcat configuration )
/ContextManager
/server
ContextManager
- end quote --
Hmm. Well my file kinda looks ok, but not having a
DTD kinda means that the tomcat developers don't
understand the central concept behind xml. But's
let's leave that aside for now. Let's just validate
the *syntax* of server.xml using W3C (if the
structure indeed is as simple as the manual claims).
[fire up a browser, validate server.xml here]
Well, that validated fine. So why am I getting
the error and wh am I getting it? There is no
way to tell, either from the Exception, or
the LACK OF DOCUMENTATION.
2 hours later, after random permutations and
combinations of server.xml I still haven't found
what's wrong.
Attached below is the complete server.xml,
in case any of you are interested.
In the past, I may have gotten upset at having wasted
all this time. But that was before I found enlightment
through tomcat. Now I am at peace with the world for
tomcat teaches us about the futility of trying to
solve simple problems.
Of course, now that I have given up trying to make
this thing work, I do have some idle time to wonder:
Exactly what are the tomcat developers smoking ?
Best regards,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
server.xml follows --
Server
ContextManager workDir=work
ContextXmlReader config=conf/apps.xml /
ApacheConfig noRoot=true forwardAll=false
jkDebug=info jkWorker=ajp13 /
AccessInterceptor /
AccessLogInterceptor /
Http10Connector port=8080 secure=false /
Ajp12Connector port=8007 address=127.0.0.1
backlog=250 /
Ajp13Connector port=8009 address=127.0.0.1
backlog=250 /
AutoDeploy source=modules target=modules
redeploy=true /
AutoWebApp dir=modules host=DEFAULT
trusted=true/
AutoDeploy source=webapps target=webapps /
AutoWebApp dir=webapps host=DEFAULT /
DecodeInterceptor /
ErrorHandler showDebugInfo=true /
InvokerInterceptor /
Jdk12Interceptor /
JspInterceptor keepGenerated=true
useJspServlet=false /
LoaderInterceptor11 useApplicationLoader=true /
LoadOnStartupInterceptor /
LogSetter name=tomcatlog timestamps=true
verbosityLevel=INFORMATION
path=logs/tomcat-log /
PolicyLoader
securityManagerClass=java.lang.SecurityManager
policyFile=conf/tomcat.policy /
ReloadInterceptor fullReload=true /
Servlet22Interceptor /
SessionExpirer checkInterval=120 /
SessionId cookiesFirst=true noCookies=false /
SessionIdGenerator
randomClass=java.security.SecureRandom
randomFile=/dev/urandom /
SimpleMapper1 /
SimpleSessionStore maxActiveSessions=-1 /
StaticInterceptor listings=false /
TrustedLoader /
WebXmlReader validate=true /
WorkDirSetup cleanWorkDir=false /
LogSetter name=servlet_log
timestamps=true
verbosityLevel = INFORMATION
path=logs/servlet-${MMdd}.log /
LogSetter name=JASPER_LOG
timestamps=true
path=logs/jasper-${MMdd}.log
verbosityLevel = INFORMATION /
/ContextManager
/Server
- end
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
Vladimir Grishchenko [EMAIL PROTECTED], looked up from a pending proctological exam, butthole opening, and contracting and gushing rectal mucous and opined: I used almost every version of TC since 3.x to 4.0. [..a buncha crap flushed..] Jeez. It must be part of the human condition that there really is no escape from stupidity. Here I was, looking for a cogent response, and I get a blazing cretin, with _no_ suggestion to offer save for proclaming a wholesome and beautiful experience with Tomcat. My, my all the way back to version 3.0 you say ? The irony of your _top_ _post_,(produced more than likely with gatesian trash I wouldn't rely on to so much as prop the outhouse door), with all_ of the original post intact, is as they say, quite delicious. Best regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
--- Jan Labanowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You must be working for Microsoft, I assume...
BTW... servlet.xml cannot have DTD, since people can
add their own stuff
(classes), instantiate it in server.xml, and name it
the way they want,
and DTD would not allow it...
Jan
Please don't top post. Replies go under the
original post. Only MS weenies with MS outlook
top post.
Ok. I am going to rant here.
rant
Tomcat 3.3.x's internals really suck. I have looked
at probably all of the JDK source over the past
5 years and tomcat is at the very bottom in terms
of quality, readability, even trivialities like
source code formatting/comments.
JSP/Servlets are *important*. They are probably the
most important java api, now that java has proven
to be a total failure on the client side. (java, in
general, is *great* though).
Now, it wouldn't be so bad that tomcat is a internal
mess, if the exposed API/interface was pleasant.
By this I mean, installing, configuring, extending,
and documentation. Tomcat falls down in all areas.
I mean, I really am very frustrated. There should be
no reason to be.
Let's take a simple, yet real world example of 2
virtual hosts, each served by Tomcat.
Well, do I use:
a) 1 tomcat instance with 1 server.xml file with
different AutoWebApps ? (have you seen how
terse the autowebapp doc is ? They don't even
say if the host name param should be a FQDN) ?
b) 2 separate instances of tomcat with 2 separate
server.xml files ?
c) Some other random, trial by fire combo ?
I mean, in places, the docs say that version 3.3
and earler require separate instances of Tomcat.
Other places, they say things like: You can add
apps to multiple virtual hosts. (implying 1
tomcat server ?).
I don't know. The JSPException that I described in
the original post, is not really documented
anywhere. Tomcat should have printed a meaningful
message when that happened. Just barfing up the
Exception itself, doesn't help me, i.e., the end
user at all.
There isn't any real documentation, and whatever
there is, is mutually incompatible in many places.
Is this the best Sun/Apache can do ?
And on a personal note: I think the whole webapp
idea is silly. It sounds promising of course, but
it complicates things for most people. If I am
running a web site, run with jsp's, then I want:
apache (httpd)
|
|_some doc root
|
|__ all .html, .jsp files, images here.
And only one context (/).
In addition, path or extension based mappings
_are_ useful but should be the _sole_ domain of
the web server. That would be Apache in my case.
That's how ASP works, that's how LiveWire used
to work. I don't want my images, files etc., all
over the place. I want them all under the htdocs
directory. (yeah, I know I can do it, but I want
that to be the default out of box tomcat behavior).
webapps should never have made it
into the spec. Name three well known
web sites running in a mass virtual hosted
environment and deployed as webapps with
a web.xml file to boot ! Hell, name *any*.
And the kicker is the gratuitous, idiotic
use of XML for _configuration_. For you to say:
servlet.xml cannot have DTD, since people can
add their own stuff
(classes), instantiate it in server.xml, and name it
the way they want,
shows that you have no conceptual idea what xml is
intended for.
Java:
class foo {
//variables (structure)
}
C:
struct {
//variables (structure)
}
Database:
create table [ .. columns/structure ..]
BNF:
syntax ::= { rule }
rule ::= identifier ::= expression
expression ::= term { | term }
term ::= factor { factor }
[..]
XML is similar to the above 4. XML is a way to
*define*/*create* new and arbitrary data
formats (although somewhat limited compared
to BNF type grammars). This way, I know and
you know what we are saying when we exhange data.
If there is _no_ format (dtd), there _is_ no
structure. That's a shoddy development time
hack only. Tomcat has been deployed for years
now. There is no excuse not to have a server.dtd.
Here's a factoid for the sun team: If I
had the money, I would buy ServletExec or maybe
JRun. I have been hacking java since '94 and
I am frustrated with how inelegant 3.3 feels.
The Sun/Apache team can learn a great
deal either of those 2 distros. (I am not talking
about fancy installers or GUI's but about
documentation and error handling behavior).
The httpd Apache server, has a different heritage
of course, but configuring a complicate beast
like that is *easier* than configuring Tomcat itself.
It took me less than 3 hours to download apache,
compile, install and get 4 virtual hosts up and
running on my linux box. I have been struggling
with Tomcat all of today and still haven't gotten
anywhere. Apache uses ONE normal config file
called 'httpd.conf'. Compare this to tomcat's
pandora's box of XML crap.
/rant
Best regards,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__
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Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
You said: rant I ... I I I I I I I I I I I I I know I can do it, but I I I . I . I I /rant Best regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pretty personal stuff for a brilliant software engineer and a Yahoo fella. You miss the big picture about Java. I would expect you might want to change your moniker to aspdesigner rather than javadesigner or, with all your brilliance, get onto the Java developer list rather than this list. They would get more humour out of it than this list. Nice to learn so much about you, but you might want to post this on the me users list. This is supposed to be about Tomcat, not you. Thanks, Best regards to you too. -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun
Micael Padraig Og mac Grene wrote: [...] snip Padraig og mac ? What kind of a name is that ? It sounds similar to the sound I make when I fart. Smells about the same too. Since you are so apt in making suggestions, allow me to make two of my own: a) look up the word 'rant' in an English dictionary. b) change your moniker to the altogether more appropriate name: cuntface. Best regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Troubles with the list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
