RE: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications

[Turner, John]

You might want to research other open source projects themselves before
attempting to write something from scratch, whether you choose Java or
anything else.  You also (as others have noted) might want to get some
design decisions down before you start choosing a platform...do you REALLY
need EJBs, for example, or is someone just driving that because they think
they're cool?

I don't know what your definition of CRM is, but you might want to
consider something like Interchange (http://www.icdevgroup.org).

You can also consider open source versions of .Net, such as the Mono
Project, which is backed by Ximian: http://www.go-mono.com/

John


 -Original Message-
 From: G. Balandres [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 4:29 AM
 To: Tomcat Users List
 Subject: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications
 
 
 Hi all,
 
 i have currently an dicussion going on about creating 
 a 3/Multi Tier Enterprise Application which will
 have one Webbased Client and one Standalone Client.
 The main aim is the Webbased Client.
 
 The problem is there are some workers which want to
 use .NET and some who want to use J2EE.
 I dont want to start something like a flame war here.
 I just want to find out if we could use the Tomcat 
 server and/or other Open Source Projects to 
 develop our Application because i dont want 
 to go the .NET way.
 The application would be a middle to big size
 CRM system.

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Re: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications

[Pae Choi]

 Hi all,
 
 i have currently an dicussion going on about creating 
 a 3/Multi Tier Enterprise Application which will
 have one Webbased Client and one Standalone Client.
 The main aim is the Webbased Client.
 

For the most(if not all)modern Enterprise Application is
based on the n-tier, a.k.a., muti-tier archtiecture. Sometimes,
we use the term, 3-tier architecture, but there ia a clear
seperation between the conventional 3-tier and mordern,
a.k.a., enhanced 3 tier, architectures.

From that architectural sense, if your immediate goal
is bound to the client tier and web tier, a.k.a., presenation
tier( i.e., the other tiers, including business tier, ..., persistence
tier, are not issue nor focus here.), Tomcat will do just
fine for your immediate, specific need.


 The problem is there are some workers which want to
 use .NET and some who want to use J2EE.
 I dont want to start something like a flame war here.
 I just want to find out if we could use the Tomcat 
 server and/or other Open Source Projects to 
 develop our Application because i dont want 
 to go the .NET way.
 The application would be a middle to big size
 CRM system.


No need to fight with your colleagues. They are not your enemy.
If possible, all should be able to use whatever they prefer
to use. In that way, you can maintain ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY
under the SAME UMBRELLAR.

Since XML is a W3C standard and more industries in global
environment adopting the XML based solution, I am sure
you are well awaring of the XML that can be an ideal solution
for you as well.

To wit, if you use the XML document whether you use it as
messaging payload and/or business document, you all can
use the technology each individual of your team prefers while
making everyone's work interoperable at the same time.

For example, take a look at the SOAP with Document-style,
not the RPC-style whch is starting to fade out from the
interoperable sense.

 So what we will need is an Application Server which
 can handle EJB's. Even too it should be scalable in a way
 that you can split parts of your application about
 several servers which are working together in a network
 environment.
 As far as i have found out until now Tomcat can't do 
 that things. Some people told me that Tomcat only implements
 some J2EE standards.
 I havent found a site on apache.org (Jakarta Side) that
 explains what Tomcat can do and what it cant.
 Anybody has one?
 

Most of Java professioanls should be able to answer this
for you, including JBoss, OpenEJB, ... So that I am skipping
this.

 Can Tomcat work together with other Applications
 that integrate the functions that Tomcat doesnt have
 but are needed for J2EE Applications?
 

Yes. For the Enterprise Application, the component-based
architecture should be one of your technical requirements.
From that sense, you should consider the frameworks which
is a.k.a, architectural patterns. Then Tomcat will be one
of your frameworks and fits well in your component-based
architecture.

 So as far as i can see now. Tomcat is good for some 
 mainly Webbased applications which are using Servlets 
 but i cant see in which productive environments it is
 used. Could anybody tell me in what kind of projects 
 you did use it?
 

For the reliability issue, I will recommend you to develop
a pilot or POC before dive into the production system. In
that way you can test more than one framework during the
early development process. (I am omitting the benefits
why you would do such). Tomcat can be one of those
framworks and you sure can get your own feeling during that
process.

 And now there is another question which doesnt really
 belong to this Mailinglist. But if i am here ... =)
 So if Tomcat cant be used to create Enterprise Applications
 which are mostly using EJB's and should be scalable on the server
 side what other ways are there. I've heard about other
 Open Source J2EE Application Servers and then there are the 
 commercial Servers like Websphere and so on.
 I've surley read books about J2EE but none of them didnt 
 give much information about the diffrent application servers
 for J2EE. So i know some stuff about programming J2EE applications
 but not much about how to implement them on the server side.
 Any suggestions on that?


For scalabilty, it is ideal to maintain the clear seperation, a.k.a,
loosely-coupled, in your architecture. Some commercial App Server
contain too much stuff from that sense. And you will need to have
multiple copies as well as license for that.

Since Tomcat is just for JSP/Servlet, it is one of ideal packages
that fits well in the component-based architecture. (Also, take a
look at the Load Balancing with Apache/HTTPd). To wit, the
mechanisms in this tier can communicate with other mechanisms --
a.k.a., design patterns, whether they are in the business tier or
some other tier. This communciation can be accomplised in a various
ways. Also, they all can schooled together in a single host even
though they will not do much 

Re: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications

[Peng Tuck Kwok]

Tomcat only does jsp/servlets, so if you are after EJB's then you need 
something like Jboss, which also bundles tomcat for jsp/servlets or 
jetty. Apparently Jboss is pretty good and a lot of people are happy 
with it so you might want to look into it. You need to pay for the docs 
though.

G. Balandres wrote:
Hi all,

i have currently an dicussion going on about creating 
a 3/Multi Tier Enterprise Application which will
have one Webbased Client and one Standalone Client.
The main aim is the Webbased Client.

The problem is there are some workers which want to
use .NET and some who want to use J2EE.
I dont want to start something like a flame war here.
I just want to find out if we could use the Tomcat 
server and/or other Open Source Projects to 
develop our Application because i dont want 
to go the .NET way.
The application would be a middle to big size
CRM system.

So what we will need is an Application Server which
can handle EJB's. Even too it should be scalable in a way
that you can split parts of your application about
several servers which are working together in a network
environment.
As far as i have found out until now Tomcat can't do 
that things. Some people told me that Tomcat only implements
some J2EE standards.
I havent found a site on apache.org (Jakarta Side) that
explains what Tomcat can do and what it cant.
Anybody has one?

Can Tomcat work together with other Applications
that integrate the functions that Tomcat doesnt have
but are needed for J2EE Applications?

So as far as i can see now. Tomcat is good for some 
mainly Webbased applications which are using Servlets 
but i cant see in which productive environments it is
used. Could anybody tell me in what kind of projects 
you did use it?

And now there is another question which doesnt really
belong to this Mailinglist. But if i am here ... =)
So if Tomcat cant be used to create Enterprise Applications
which are mostly using EJB's and should be scalable on the server
side what other ways are there. I've heard about other
Open Source J2EE Application Servers and then there are the 
commercial Servers like Websphere and so on.
I've surley read books about J2EE but none of them didnt 
give much information about the diffrent application servers
for J2EE. So i know some stuff about programming J2EE applications
but not much about how to implement them on the server side.
Any suggestions on that?


Thank you for reading my stuff and if you have any idea about
my questions any answer would be highly appreciated.

Thanks and Greetings,
G. Balandres

--

Even god is a Programmer:
while heartIsBumping()  {
  /* Many
 Cases and If-Else Routines
 which ends with 
 exit		
  */
  	
  doLive()  
}








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Re: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications

[Mike W-M]

I'm currently working (independently!) with Oracle's BC4J application /
persistence framework (against a transactional MySQL database).
The framework is supposed to be client independent, and JDeveloper (with
which the framework comes) provides tools for generating / designing both
thick and thin-web-based clients against the same backend logic
implementation.  (My quotes, not theirs!  I can't vouch for their clients
since I'm hand-coding my own JSPs - primarily because the wizard-created
JSPs didn't suit (and looked rubbish!) at the time (and I had enough to
learn)   - and basically using BC4J for managed persistence (in place of
EJBs).)

If you're at the stage where you're just learning that J2EE doesn't
necessarily mean EJBs (and that Tomcat doesn't support them!) then you've
got a pretty steep learning curve ahead of you.  I'd urge you to try to take
a generative or framework approach to building your application and NOT to
start trying to hand-code an enterprise app from scratch. [I suspect the
same is true of dotNet as well?]

I don't have a wide breadth of experience in Java - hopefully others will
have more to add - but I'd recommend you take a look at JDeveloper / BC4J
(It's low-cost, too!).

Mike.


- Original Message -
From: Peng Tuck Kwok [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications


Tomcat only does jsp/servlets, so if you are after EJB's then you need
something like Jboss, which also bundles tomcat for jsp/servlets or
jetty. Apparently Jboss is pretty good and a lot of people are happy
with it so you might want to look into it. You need to pay for the docs
though.

G. Balandres wrote:
 Hi all,

 i have currently an dicussion going on about creating
 a 3/Multi Tier Enterprise Application which will
 have one Webbased Client and one Standalone Client.
 The main aim is the Webbased Client.
snip.


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RE: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications

[Shapira, Yoav]

Hi,
How do you know you need EJBs when you haven't even decided whether to
use J2EE or .Net?  That's a more detailed design choice, isn't it?

Tomcat by itself doesn't support EJBs.  It's not a full J2EE server.
JBoss is, and it's a good one.  JBoss uses Tomcat for servlets and JSPs.
There are also other servlet and J2EE containers -- part of the fun of
having a choice in the java world.

If you search the list archive, you will find several threads along the
lines of whether tomcat is suitable for production apps, how long people
keep their servers up, stability versus NT boxes, etc.

Yoav Shapira
Millennium ChemInformatics


-Original Message-
From: G. Balandres [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 4:29 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications

Hi all,

i have currently an dicussion going on about creating
a 3/Multi Tier Enterprise Application which will
have one Webbased Client and one Standalone Client.
The main aim is the Webbased Client.

The problem is there are some workers which want to
use .NET and some who want to use J2EE.
I dont want to start something like a flame war here.
I just want to find out if we could use the Tomcat
server and/or other Open Source Projects to
develop our Application because i dont want
to go the .NET way.
The application would be a middle to big size
CRM system.

So what we will need is an Application Server which
can handle EJB's. Even too it should be scalable in a way
that you can split parts of your application about
several servers which are working together in a network
environment.
As far as i have found out until now Tomcat can't do
that things. Some people told me that Tomcat only implements
some J2EE standards.
I havent found a site on apache.org (Jakarta Side) that
explains what Tomcat can do and what it cant.
Anybody has one?

Can Tomcat work together with other Applications
that integrate the functions that Tomcat doesnt have
but are needed for J2EE Applications?

So as far as i can see now. Tomcat is good for some
mainly Webbased applications which are using Servlets
but i cant see in which productive environments it is
used. Could anybody tell me in what kind of projects
you did use it?

And now there is another question which doesnt really
belong to this Mailinglist. But if i am here ... =)
So if Tomcat cant be used to create Enterprise Applications
which are mostly using EJB's and should be scalable on the server
side what other ways are there. I've heard about other
Open Source J2EE Application Servers and then there are the
commercial Servers like Websphere and so on.
I've surley read books about J2EE but none of them didnt
give much information about the diffrent application servers
for J2EE. So i know some stuff about programming J2EE applications
but not much about how to implement them on the server side.
Any suggestions on that?


Thank you for reading my stuff and if you have any idea about
my questions any answer would be highly appreciated.

Thanks and Greetings,
G. Balandres

--

Even god is a Programmer:
while heartIsBumping()  {
  /* Many
 Cases and If-Else Routines
 which ends with
 exit
  */

  doLive()
}








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RE: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications

[Puneet Agarwal]

I have another question in line with the same subject.

Does tomcat support, JVM online replication, to support the failover of link.

I mean the session memory be replicated to another instance of TOMCAT and in case link 
to first one fails can we switch to the second instance of tomcat without letting the 
user know as to what has happened. I know that WEBLOGIC supports this.

Anyone has any idea about this.
Regards
Puneet
- Original Message -
From: Shapira, Yoav [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:00:25 -0500
To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications

 Hi,
 How do you know you need EJBs when you haven't even decided whether to
 use J2EE or .Net?  That's a more detailed design choice, isn't it?
 
 Tomcat by itself doesn't support EJBs.  It's not a full J2EE server.
 JBoss is, and it's a good one.  JBoss uses Tomcat for servlets and JSPs.
 There are also other servlet and J2EE containers -- part of the fun of
 having a choice in the java world.
 
 If you search the list archive, you will find several threads along the
 lines of whether tomcat is suitable for production apps, how long people
 keep their servers up, stability versus NT boxes, etc.
 
 Yoav Shapira
 Millennium ChemInformatics
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: G. Balandres [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 4:29 AM
 To: Tomcat Users List
 Subject: Tomcat for Enterprise Applications
 
 Hi all,
 
 i have currently an dicussion going on about creating
 a 3/Multi Tier Enterprise Application which will
 have one Webbased Client and one Standalone Client.
 The main aim is the Webbased Client.
 
 The problem is there are some workers which want to
 use .NET and some who want to use J2EE.
 I dont want to start something like a flame war here.
 I just want to find out if we could use the Tomcat
 server and/or other Open Source Projects to
 develop our Application because i dont want
 to go the .NET way.
 The application would be a middle to big size
 CRM system.
 
 So what we will need is an Application Server which
 can handle EJB's. Even too it should be scalable in a way
 that you can split parts of your application about
 several servers which are working together in a network
 environment.
 As far as i have found out until now Tomcat can't do
 that things. Some people told me that Tomcat only implements
 some J2EE standards.
 I havent found a site on apache.org (Jakarta Side) that
 explains what Tomcat can do and what it cant.
 Anybody has one?
 
 Can Tomcat work together with other Applications
 that integrate the functions that Tomcat doesnt have
 but are needed for J2EE Applications?
 
 So as far as i can see now. Tomcat is good for some
 mainly Webbased applications which are using Servlets
 but i cant see in which productive environments it is
 used. Could anybody tell me in what kind of projects
 you did use it?
 
 And now there is another question which doesnt really
 belong to this Mailinglist. But if i am here ... =)
 So if Tomcat cant be used to create Enterprise Applications
 which are mostly using EJB's and should be scalable on the server
 side what other ways are there. I've heard about other
 Open Source J2EE Application Servers and then there are the
 commercial Servers like Websphere and so on.
 I've surley read books about J2EE but none of them didnt
 give much information about the diffrent application servers
 for J2EE. So i know some stuff about programming J2EE applications
 but not much about how to implement them on the server side.
 Any suggestions on that?
 
 
 Thank you for reading my stuff and if you have any idea about
 my questions any answer would be highly appreciated.
 
 Thanks and Greetings,
 G. Balandres
 
 --
 
 Even god is a Programmer:
 while heartIsBumping()  {
   /* Many
  Cases and If-Else Routines
  which ends with
  exit
   */
 
   doLive()
 }
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 To unsubscribe, e-mail:   mailto:tomcat-user-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:tomcat-user-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
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 For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

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