Re: Topband: Ticks

[Dick Green WC1M]

Severe muscle tremors and uncontrolled seizures Here's more info:

https://icatcare.org/permethrin/owner-info

73, Dick WC1M

-Original Message-
From: Carl  
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:45 PM
To: Dick Green WC1M ; 'Sean Waite' ; 
'Richard McLachlan' 
Cc: 'Michael Walker' ; topband@contesting.com; 'Sam 
Josuweit' ; 'AB2E Darrell' ; 'FZ Bruce' 

Subject: Re: Topband: Ticks

Note that Permethrin is deadly fatal to cats. I didn't know that until I read 
the label on the bottle, after which I threw it away (we're very fond of our 
cat.)

What are the symptoms of that?

Ive been spraying Permethrin for about 15 years all along the paths I use plus 
around the berry area where Im often on my knees.

Lyme is common here in Pelham, a few friends got it and one from his goats. 
Our cat died almost 2 years ago come September but the vet claimed it was 
likely cancer.
He was a very lively 18 and a real outdoor cat but seldom traveled anywhere 
near my spraying area but he was murder on mice and Chipmunks.close to the 
house.

Carl
Carl
- Original Message -
From: "Dick Green WC1M" 
To: "'Sean Waite'" ; "'Richard McLachlan'" 

Cc: "'Michael Walker'" ; ; "'Sam 
Josuweit'" ; "'AB2E Darrell'" ; "'FZ Bruce'" 

Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Ticks


> Note that Permethrin is deadly fatal to cats. I didn't know that until 
> I read the label on the bottle, after which I threw it away (we're 
> very fond of our cat.)
>
> I wear knee-length gators, long pants, a long sleeve shirt and a hat 
> when working outside, and always strip down and check my body for 
> ticks when I go inside. Important to carefully check in your hair, as 
> they like to crawl up there and hide.
>
> I try to do most of my antenna work in the fall when it isn't so hot, 
> but near as I can tell, ticks are present from when the snow melts to 
> when it falls again.
>
> I live in an area prone to Lyme disease, but we've never seen a deer 
> tick here, only dog (wood) ticks. But that doesn't mean they aren't 
> here. We have deer and mice on the property every day.
>
> 73, Dick WC1M
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sean Waite 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:55 AM
> To: Richard McLachlan 
> Cc: Michael Walker ; AB2E Darrell 
> ; topband@contesting.com; Sam Josuweit 
> ; FZ Bruce 
> Subject: Re: Topband: Ticks
>
> Note that the "bullseye" rashes don't always appear with lyme.
>
> If I know I'm going to be spending some time in tick areas, I break 
> out the chemicals. Permethrin is great for this. Apply to clothes, 
> it'll survive a few washes. Wear long pants, tuck those pants into 
> your socks. A DEET based spray can be applied to your skin as well for 
> double help. I used this method while bushwacking down a trail covered 
> in deer and moose scat at the height of tick season in New Hampshire 
> and got away with zero ticks on me, so I guess it works to some degree.
>
> Having had Lyme Disease in the past, I'd heartily recommend avoiding it.
> Not fun.
>
> 73,
> Sean WA1TE
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 11:46 AM Richard McLachlan 
> 
> wrote:
>
>> My wife caught Lyme Disease from a deer in Scotland. The main thing 
>> to watch out for is a large red circle about 3 inches across like a 
>> bullseye round the bite site.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> > On 16 Jul 2019, at 16:16, Michael Walker  wrote:
>> >
>> > For Ticks
>> >
>> > Make sure you are well covered with normal cloths.   It is something to
>> be
>> > concerned about, but not stressed about.
>> >
>> > When you get done, have someone inspect your entire body to see if 
>> > any Ticks are hanging on.  The initial bite isn't the bad part, it 
>> > is the
>> fact
>> > they can hang on for 2-3 days getting their blood meal.  Do NOT 
>> > crush the Tick if you are bit.  Just easily remove it.
>> >
>> > The Off! people also make a Tick repellent.
>> >
>> > This is from our Provincial Health page.
>> >
>> > Mike va3mw
>> >
>> > How to avoid getting a tick bite
>> >
>> > You might be at risk if you live, work in, or visit a wooded area, 
>> > or an area with tall grasses and bushes (including city gardens and 
>> > parks).
>> >
>> > You may also be at risk if you are involved in outdoor activities 
>> > such as hiking, camping and gardening.
>> >
>> > You may be bitten by a tick and not even know it.
>> >
>> > Here’s what you can do to avoid getting a tick bite.
>> > Cover up
>>

Re: Topband: Ticks

[Dick Green WC1M]

Note that Permethrin is deadly fatal to cats. I didn't know that until I read 
the label on the bottle, after which I threw it away (we're very fond of our 
cat.)

I wear knee-length gators, long pants, a long sleeve shirt and a hat when 
working outside, and always strip down and check my body for ticks when I go 
inside. Important to carefully check in your hair, as they like to crawl up 
there and hide.

I try to do most of my antenna work in the fall when it isn't so hot, but near 
as I can tell, ticks are present from when the snow melts to when it falls 
again.

I live in an area prone to Lyme disease, but we've never seen a deer tick here, 
only dog (wood) ticks. But that doesn't mean they aren't here. We have deer and 
mice on the property every day.

73, Dick WC1M 

-Original Message-
From: Sean Waite  
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:55 AM
To: Richard McLachlan 
Cc: Michael Walker ; AB2E Darrell ; 
topband@contesting.com; Sam Josuweit ; FZ Bruce 
Subject: Re: Topband: Ticks

Note that the "bullseye" rashes don't always appear with lyme.

If I know I'm going to be spending some time in tick areas, I break out the 
chemicals. Permethrin is great for this. Apply to clothes, it'll survive a few 
washes. Wear long pants, tuck those pants into your socks. A DEET based spray 
can be applied to your skin as well for double help. I used this method while 
bushwacking down a trail covered in deer and moose scat at the height of tick 
season in New Hampshire and got away with zero ticks on me, so I guess it works 
to some degree.

Having had Lyme Disease in the past, I'd heartily recommend avoiding it.
Not fun.

73,
Sean WA1TE

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 11:46 AM Richard McLachlan 
wrote:

> My wife caught Lyme Disease from a deer in Scotland. The main thing to 
> watch out for is a large red circle about 3 inches across like a 
> bullseye round the bite site.
>
> Regards
>
> Richard
>
> > On 16 Jul 2019, at 16:16, Michael Walker  wrote:
> >
> > For Ticks
> >
> > Make sure you are well covered with normal cloths.   It is something to
> be
> > concerned about, but not stressed about.
> >
> > When you get done, have someone inspect your entire body to see if 
> > any Ticks are hanging on.  The initial bite isn't the bad part, it 
> > is the
> fact
> > they can hang on for 2-3 days getting their blood meal.  Do NOT 
> > crush the Tick if you are bit.  Just easily remove it.
> >
> > The Off! people also make a Tick repellent.
> >
> > This is from our Provincial Health page.
> >
> > Mike va3mw
> >
> > How to avoid getting a tick bite
> >
> > You might be at risk if you live, work in, or visit a wooded area, 
> > or an area with tall grasses and bushes (including city gardens and parks).
> >
> > You may also be at risk if you are involved in outdoor activities 
> > such as hiking, camping and gardening.
> >
> > You may be bitten by a tick and not even know it.
> >
> > Here’s what you can do to avoid getting a tick bite.
> > Cover up
> >
> > Wear:
> >
> >   - light-coloured clothing, so it’s easier to see ticks
> >   - closed-toed shoes
> >   - long-sleeved shirts
> >   - long pants, tucked into your socks
> >
> > Use insect repellent
> >
> > Use an insect repellent, or bug spray, that says “DEET” or 
> > “icaridin” on it. Put it on your clothes and exposed skin. Always 
> > read the label for directions on how to use it.
> > Put clothes in the dryer
> >
> > Kill any ticks that might be on your clothing by putting your 
> > clothes in
> a
> > dryer on high heat for at least 10 minutes before washing them.
> > Check yourself and your children
> >
> > After being outdoors, check for ticks on yourself and your children.
> Look:
> >
> >   - behind your knees
> >   - on your head
> >   - in your belly button
> >   - in your groin area
> >   - in your underarm area
> >   - on the back of your body – use a mirror, or ask someone to check for
> >   you
> >
> > It’s a good idea to have a shower as soon as you can to wash off any
> ticks.
> > How to remove a tick
> >
> > Removing a tick is the same for humans and animals. It’s important 
> > you do not crush or damage the tick because it could cause Lyme 
> > bacteria to pass from the tick into your bloodstream.
> >
> >   1. Use fine-tipped tweezers and grasp the tick as close to your skin as
> >   possible.
> >  - Do not use a lit match or cigarette, nail polish or nail polish
> >  remover, petroleum jelly (e.g., Vaseline), liquid soap or 
> > kerosene
> to
> >  remove the tick.
> >   2
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
> Reflector
>


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Re: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square

[Dick Green WC1M]

I might have done that. It was 20 years ago… :)

 

From: MrToby  
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 7:11 PM
To: Dick Green WC1M 
Cc: Guy Olinger K2AV ; David Raymond 
; w...@hotmail.com; TopBand List 
; terry burge 
Subject: Re: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square

 

You dont have to lower them but you need to short them to ground to make them 
electrically invisible 

 

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018, 6:07 PM Dick Green WC1M mailto:wc1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Interesting. This is not how I tuned my 40m 4-square, albeit with tubular 
elements not slopers.

Anyway, my understanding is that you disconnect all four elements from the 
control box and measure at the feedpoint, not through the phasing lines. I did 
it that way and had no trouble tuning the elements. I did, however, tune them 
to a frequency that was something like 5% below the target resonant frequency. 
I can't remember the exact frequencies now, but I think I wanted the array 
resonant at 7.025 MHz, so I tuned them to about 6.700 MHz. Might have been a 
little higher than that.

I've not heard that you must lower the other elements to do the tuning. 
Certainly a pain with nesting tubular elements.

73, Dick WC1M

-Original Message-
From: Guy Olinger K2AV mailto:k2av@gmail.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 11:29 PM
To: David Raymond mailto:daraym...@iowatelecom.net> 
>
Cc: w...@hotmail.com <mailto:w...@hotmail.com> ; terry burge mailto:k...@comcast.net> >; TopBand List mailto:topband@contesting.com> >
Subject: Re: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square

Essential point that might be missed: each one of the elements, one at a time, 
must be tuned independently with the other three elements down. This is the 
initial tuning. If when everything hooked up characteristics are OK then you’re 
done.

Finish initial tuning and it's *not* OK? To slide the ARRAY center freq up or 
down, there are several methods:

1) Redo the initial one at a time tuning with an opposite-to-the-error 
adjustment to the one at a time tuning target frequency.

2) make *small*  identical wire length changes to all four elements at the same 
time.

3) If you're an engineer and have the equipment and design software, redesign 
the box to work with what you have. ☺

Just remember that the elements of a four square are very heavily coupled to 
each other, regardless that all are driven from the control box. The final 
result is a complex function of the driven current AND the effects of the heavy 
mutual coupling between elements.

73, and good luck,

Guy K2AV




On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 8:15 PM mailto:daraym...@iowatelecom.net> > wrote:

> Yes, install ONE sloper. . .measure and cut to resonance.  Duplicate that
> measurement for the other three. 73. . .Dave, W0FLS
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wayne Kline
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 6:03 PM
> To: terry burge ; topband@contesting.com <mailto:topband@contesting.com> 
> Subject: Re: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square
>
> Terry,
>
>
>
> I assume  you only  installed ONE sloper and made your measurements ?
>
>
>
> With all 4 installed  there is  way to much mutual  coupling to get a 
> meaningful reading.
>
>
>
> If your  readings were from only ONE antenna tuned with a length of 50 
> OHM cable at it’s feed point and trimmed to your desired  freq. and 
> that FREQ will rise about 80 to 120 KC when the 4 are installed .
>
>
>
> Wayne W3EA
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> 
> From: Topband  <mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com> > on behalf of terry 
> burge mailto:k...@comcast.net> >
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 6:11:37 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com <mailto:topband@contesting.com> ; terry burge
> Subject: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square
>
> Hello Guys and Gals,
>
>
> Recently Tree did some work for me and one of the things was to put up 
> the Comtek 80 meter 4-Square switching unit and a couple of pulley 
> setups for my raising of the 80 meter slopers. Lately I've been 
> chasing my tail around to get them dipped in around 3700-3750 Khz. 
> Been adding or subtracting length of the slopers to bring them into 
> resonance but it seems the more I work at it the worse things get. 
> Today I dropped back to punt by rechecking my Rig Experts AA-170 with 
> a 50 ohm load just to make sure it read right...it did.
>
>
> The sloper dipoles are MFJ 1779B's 'trim to length' except one I had 
> to rebuild with a hy-que center SO-239. RG-213 from the switching unit 
> to the Rig Expert and when put together using a long run of LMR-400 
> about 175-200'
> back to the shack. 75 ohm DXE foam RG-11/u coax quarter wav

Re: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square

[Dick Green WC1M]

Interesting. This is not how I tuned my 40m 4-square, albeit with tubular 
elements not slopers.

Anyway, my understanding is that you disconnect all four elements from the 
control box and measure at the feedpoint, not through the phasing lines. I did 
it that way and had no trouble tuning the elements. I did, however, tune them 
to a frequency that was something like 5% below the target resonant frequency. 
I can't remember the exact frequencies now, but I think I wanted the array 
resonant at 7.025 MHz, so I tuned them to about 6.700 MHz. Might have been a 
little higher than that.

I've not heard that you must lower the other elements to do the tuning. 
Certainly a pain with nesting tubular elements.

73, Dick WC1M

-Original Message-
From: Guy Olinger K2AV  
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 11:29 PM
To: David Raymond 
Cc: w...@hotmail.com; terry burge ; TopBand List 

Subject: Re: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square

Essential point that might be missed: each one of the elements, one at a time, 
must be tuned independently with the other three elements down. This is the 
initial tuning. If when everything hooked up characteristics are OK then you’re 
done.

Finish initial tuning and it's *not* OK? To slide the ARRAY center freq up or 
down, there are several methods:

1) Redo the initial one at a time tuning with an opposite-to-the-error 
adjustment to the one at a time tuning target frequency.

2) make *small*  identical wire length changes to all four elements at the same 
time.

3) If you're an engineer and have the equipment and design software, redesign 
the box to work with what you have. ☺

Just remember that the elements of a four square are very heavily coupled to 
each other, regardless that all are driven from the control box. The final 
result is a complex function of the driven current AND the effects of the heavy 
mutual coupling between elements.

73, and good luck,

Guy K2AV




On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 8:15 PM  wrote:

> Yes, install ONE sloper. . .measure and cut to resonance.  Duplicate that
> measurement for the other three. 73. . .Dave, W0FLS
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wayne Kline
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 6:03 PM
> To: terry burge ; topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square
>
> Terry,
>
>
>
> I assume  you only  installed ONE sloper and made your measurements ?
>
>
>
> With all 4 installed  there is  way to much mutual  coupling to get a 
> meaningful reading.
>
>
>
> If your  readings were from only ONE antenna tuned with a length of 50 
> OHM cable at it’s feed point and trimmed to your desired  freq. and 
> that FREQ will rise about 80 to 120 KC when the 4 are installed .
>
>
>
> Wayne W3EA
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for 
> Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> 
> From: Topband  on behalf of terry 
> burge 
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 6:11:37 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com; terry burge
> Subject: Topband: trying to tune up 80 meter 4-Square
>
> Hello Guys and Gals,
>
>
> Recently Tree did some work for me and one of the things was to put up 
> the Comtek 80 meter 4-Square switching unit and a couple of pulley 
> setups for my raising of the 80 meter slopers. Lately I've been 
> chasing my tail around to get them dipped in around 3700-3750 Khz. 
> Been adding or subtracting length of the slopers to bring them into 
> resonance but it seems the more I work at it the worse things get. 
> Today I dropped back to punt by rechecking my Rig Experts AA-170 with 
> a 50 ohm load just to make sure it read right...it did.
>
>
> The sloper dipoles are MFJ 1779B's 'trim to length' except one I had 
> to rebuild with a hy-que center SO-239. RG-213 from the switching unit 
> to the Rig Expert and when put together using a long run of LMR-400 
> about 175-200'
> back to the shack. 75 ohm DXE foam RG-11/u coax quarter wavelength 
> stubs from switching unit to each dipole center. Each 75 ohm stub has 
> multiple ferrite snap on's 5 or 6 to form current baluns.
>
>
> Here is an example. SE sloper, read SWR of 3875-3850 Khz of 1.0:1 in 
> the shack on Elecraft W2 wattmeter. 3799 Khz SWR 1.3,  3775 Khz 1.4, 
> 3750 1.5,
> 3725 1.5, 3700-3650 1.7...Added 19" each end and it seemed to read 
> close to the same resonance!  Added 24" more each end and this time 
> used the Rig Experts to check it out. Got two dips but not even where 
> I was expecting them
>
>
> Resonacne 4680 KhzSWR 1.16
>
> RL 23.3 dB  |Z|   57.4 ohm
>
> R:  57.5 ohms  X: 10.7 ohm
>
>  C:  52000 nF up and down
>
>
> R::  57.9 ohm XLL  -4878 ohm
>
>
> second dip at 2169 Khz  SWR  1.07
>
> RL 28.0 dB   |Z|  46.5 ohms
>
> R:  46.5 ohms   x:  0.2/0.4 ohms
>
> L:  2.2 nH
>
> R::   46.4 ohmX||  (infinity or very high)
>
> L:||  same infinity
>
>
> And the frequency where I was trying to drop down from when I begain 

Re: Topband: Shunt feeding AB-577/621

[Dick Green WC1M]

Hi Pete,

Good question. I haven't done it with any of my three AB-577s, but I've seen 
recommendations from others that the sections be electrically bonded. 

I'm not sure about the case for that. I just measured continuity on the flat 
portion of a spare tube and it showed zero ohms. If the contact areas are clean 
when the mast is assembled, they should make good contact with zero resistance. 
The clamp should act to keep the flat areas in contact, as should the downward 
pressure from the guys. I guess it may be possible that dirt carried by rain 
water might seep into the clamp and get between the sections as they rock back 
and forth in the wind, even if it's just by nanometers.

If you buy that possibility, I think it can be overcome pretty easily by 
attaching right-angle tabs to the top and bottom of each section with 
screws/nuts, and running a section of copper strap between them, also secured 
with screws and nuts, or perhaps you can find some sort of clamp that would let 
you quickly connect/disconnect the strap as you raise/lower the mast.

Hope this helps.

73, Dick WC1M

-Original Message-
From: N4ZR  
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2018 11:48 AM
To: topband reflector 
Subject: Topband: Shunt feeding AB-577/621

I have an AB-577 with a C-3E on top, and am interested in the possibility of 
shunt-feeding it for 160 - 100 watts only.  Anyone have any experience with 
doing this?  Are the section-to-section joints adequately conductive?  I would 
plan to use an omega match, because I'm guessing it would be well short of a 
quarter wave.

My other option is an inverted L.  Should I maybe just go ahead with that?

-- 

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.



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Re: Topband: 160m inv vee questions

[Dick Green WC1M]

Meaning run the wires NE-SW?

The article I read did mention the polarity being vertical in the direction of 
the wires, consistent with your model.

Would the same apply to the 80m portion?

Thanks & 73,
Dick

-Original Message-
From: Brian Pease <bpea...@myfairpoint.net> 
Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 7:41 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160m inv vee questions

I modeled an inverted-V last week.  If the feed is balanced, the total 
radiation pattern (Hor + Ver) is omni-azimuthal with a lot of upward radiation. 
 Directly broadside, the radiation is horizontal but off the ends it is 
entirely vertical.  For 160 to EU I would orient NE-SW.

On 4/1/2018 6:41 PM, Dick Green WC1M wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>   
>
> For many years I’ve had a trapped 80m/160m inverted vee with the apex 
> at about 94’ on a tower that’s loaded with various yagis. The vee is 
> oriented so that it’s broadside to the NE and SW (wires running SE to 
> NW). The tower is on a steep hill, so the wire that runs to the uphill 
> side is only about
> 17 feet off the ground, while the wire on the downhill side is about 
> 27 feet off the ground (maybe more).
>
>   
>
> The traps are Rayco KW-80C, which is cut for 3.625 MHz, setup for 
> two-band operation. On each side, the 80m portion above the trap is 
> cut to 68 feet and the portion below the trap is cut to ~47’, for an 
> overall length of ~115 feet per leg.
>
>   
>
> As you would expect, the bandwidth on both bands is narrow. Since I 
> operate almost exclusively on CW, and have an 80m delta loop with 
> better radiation angle and bandwidth, I only use the 80m portion of 
> the trapped vee for an SDR that monitors the band (due to switching 
> limitations, the SDR can’t use the delta loop).
>
>   
>
> The lower wires have been trimmed to center the antenna at 1.830 MHz 
> on 160m. The 2:1 bandwidth is about 40 KHz, and around 70 KHz between 
> the 3:1 marks. So the antenna is useful on most of the CW portion of 
> the band. It hears OK when the atmosphere is quiet, but normally I use a 520’
> dual-direction NE-SW beverage for listening. As expected, the 
> effectiveness of the transmit portion is limited. I’ve worked at least 
> 100 countries with it, and in a typical contest I can work EU and 
> SA/Caribbean if conditions are good. But I’m usually well behind the 
> top stations in multipliers – maybe a little better than half what they have. 
> Again, no surprise.
>
>   
>
> Recently I started thinking that maybe I should ditch the traps and 
> convert the antenna to a full-size 160m inverted vee. The overall 
> length and height of the ends above ground will be comparable. But 
> when I compared the 160m inverted vee to the 80m/160m trapped inverted 
> vee in EZNEC+, there was only marginal difference. They’re both cloud 
> warmers at DX angles, and the SWR bandwidths were the same. I found 
> this somewhat surprising, given trap losses and such. I would have 
> expected a more noticeable difference in gain, angle and especially 
> bandwidth. So, my first question is, am I reading the
> EZNEC+ results right, and there’s no real advantage to converting the
> antenna, especially in light of losing it for SDR use on 80m?
>
>   
>
> Second question came up while I was reading some articles about 160m 
> antennas and came across one that said more radiation comes off the 
> wires of an inverted vee than broadside. I was under the impression 
> that inverted vees are omnidirectional, and if there was any 
> directivity it would be broadside, like a dipole. I happened to orient 
> my trapped inv vee so it’s broadside to EU (NE/SW) on the tiny chance 
> there could be some directivity in that direction. But if the article 
> is right, or if the radiation is truly omnidirectional, then I’m 
> better off orienting the legs NE/SW (broadside
> NW/SE) because the slope of the land would allow for the uphill leg to 
> be considerably higher off the ground (it would run mostly over flat 
> ground), though it’s not clear to me what advantage that might confer. 
> However, there’s a more definite advantage because the legs of the 
> inverted vee would be much farther away from my beverage. Right now, 
> one leg comes within about
> 20 feet of it. If I reorient the antenna it would be over 100 feet away.
> Comments?
>
>   
>
> Finally, another option would be to ditch the traps and one leg, and 
> slope the other leg towards EU as a ¼-wave vertical on 160m (with lots 
> of ground-mounted radials, of course.) Unfortunately, that would have 
> to be the uphill leg, so the vertical would be somewhat flatter than 
> if I could point it SW. Would such a vertical be superior to what I 
> have now or the dedicated inverted vee?
>
>   
>
> 73, Dick WC1M
>
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>



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Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: 160m inv vee questions

[Dick Green WC1M]

Hi all,

 

For many years I’ve had a trapped 80m/160m inverted vee with the apex at
about 94’ on a tower that’s loaded with various yagis. The vee is oriented
so that it’s broadside to the NE and SW (wires running SE to NW). The tower
is on a steep hill, so the wire that runs to the uphill side is only about
17 feet off the ground, while the wire on the downhill side is about 27 feet
off the ground (maybe more).

 

The traps are Rayco KW-80C, which is cut for 3.625 MHz, setup for two-band
operation. On each side, the 80m portion above the trap is cut to 68 feet
and the portion below the trap is cut to ~47’, for an overall length of ~115
feet per leg. 

 

As you would expect, the bandwidth on both bands is narrow. Since I operate
almost exclusively on CW, and have an 80m delta loop with better radiation
angle and bandwidth, I only use the 80m portion of the trapped vee for an
SDR that monitors the band (due to switching limitations, the SDR can’t use
the delta loop).

 

The lower wires have been trimmed to center the antenna at 1.830 MHz on
160m. The 2:1 bandwidth is about 40 KHz, and around 70 KHz between the 3:1
marks. So the antenna is useful on most of the CW portion of the band. It
hears OK when the atmosphere is quiet, but normally I use a 520’
dual-direction NE-SW beverage for listening. As expected, the effectiveness
of the transmit portion is limited. I’ve worked at least 100 countries with
it, and in a typical contest I can work EU and SA/Caribbean if conditions
are good. But I’m usually well behind the top stations in multipliers –
maybe a little better than half what they have. Again, no surprise.

 

Recently I started thinking that maybe I should ditch the traps and convert
the antenna to a full-size 160m inverted vee. The overall length and height
of the ends above ground will be comparable. But when I compared the 160m
inverted vee to the 80m/160m trapped inverted vee in EZNEC+, there was only
marginal difference. They’re both cloud warmers at DX angles, and the SWR
bandwidths were the same. I found this somewhat surprising, given trap
losses and such. I would have expected a more noticeable difference in gain,
angle and especially bandwidth. So, my first question is, am I reading the
EZNEC+ results right, and there’s no real advantage to converting the
antenna, especially in light of losing it for SDR use on 80m?

 

Second question came up while I was reading some articles about 160m
antennas and came across one that said more radiation comes off the wires of
an inverted vee than broadside. I was under the impression that inverted
vees are omnidirectional, and if there was any directivity it would be
broadside, like a dipole. I happened to orient my trapped inv vee so it’s
broadside to EU (NE/SW) on the tiny chance there could be some directivity
in that direction. But if the article is right, or if the radiation is truly
omnidirectional, then I’m better off orienting the legs NE/SW (broadside
NW/SE) because the slope of the land would allow for the uphill leg to be
considerably higher off the ground (it would run mostly over flat ground),
though it’s not clear to me what advantage that might confer. However,
there’s a more definite advantage because the legs of the inverted vee would
be much farther away from my beverage. Right now, one leg comes within about
20 feet of it. If I reorient the antenna it would be over 100 feet away.
Comments?

 

Finally, another option would be to ditch the traps and one leg, and slope
the other leg towards EU as a ¼-wave vertical on 160m (with lots of
ground-mounted radials, of course.) Unfortunately, that would have to be the
uphill leg, so the vertical would be somewhat flatter than if I could point
it SW. Would such a vertical be superior to what I have now or the dedicated
inverted vee?

 

73, Dick WC1M

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Web SDR's and 'Cheating'

[Dick Green WC1M]

Nope. The rule says *all* transmitters, receivers, and antennas must be in the 
*same* 500m circle. I guess the circle moves around with mobile stations, but I 
don't think anyone is worried about those guys.

73, Dick WC1M

On Feb 11, 2011, at 6:55 PM, ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com wrote:

 So does that mean the guy in his Brooklyn hi rise without any gear can 
 operate X number of stations in the US in say the 160M contest and likely 
 win? There is no rule I see about not moving the 500m entity X times just as 
 their is no rule about a cross country trucker operating and submitting a 
 log..
 
 Carl
 KM1H
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Dick Green WC1M wc1...@gmail.com
 To: 'Robert McGwier' rwmcgw...@gmail.com; Tree t...@kkn.net
 Cc: topband@contesting.com
 Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 3:44 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: Web SDR's and 'Cheating'
 
 
 Your SDR was effectively a remote receiver used by the DX station. 
 Credit
 for contacts made utilizing remote receivers depends on the rules 
 governing
 specific awards and contests. Here's the relevant rule governing DXCC
 credit:
 
 9. All stations must be contacted from the same DXCC entity. The location 
 of
 any station shall be defined as the location of the transmitter. For the
 purposes of this award, remote operating points must be located within the
 same DXCC entity as the transmitter and receiver.
 
 As you can see, this isn't completely clear. In the first part of the
 sentence, remote operating points is not defined. Does that include only
 the transmitter, as defined in the second sentence, or both the 
 transmitter
 and receiver, as suggested by the second part of the third sentence? In
 fact, the second part of the third sentence appears to contradict the 
 second
 sentence! My guess is that they want the transmitter and receiver to be
 located in the same DXCC entity, but this is not stated explicitly.
 
 Fortunately, the situation is much clearer for ARRL contests, and for most
 CQ contests: remote receivers are not allowed. Period. (Well, except for 
 the
 Extreme category in CQ WW.) For ARRL, the definition of a remote receiver
 rests on General Rule 5.3, which states that all transmitters, receivers 
 and
 antennas must be within a 500m circle. Since the 160m contact made by the 
 DX
 station utilized a transmitter in his location and a remote receiver (your
 SDR and antenna) located more than 500m from the transmitter, it would not
 be eligible for credit in any ARRL contest and in most CQ contests and
 categories.
 
 However, note that the ARRL rules on remote receivers do not preclude the
 operator from being outside the circle. So, you can remotely operate a
 station that's anywhere else in the world. The location of the transmitter
 and receiver (which must be within the same 500m circle) defines where the
 station is located, not the op's location. So, if you operate a 
 transmitter
 and receiver located within the same 500m circle in Ghana, and you are
 sitting comfortably in your easy chair in Brooklyn, NY, running the 
 station
 over the Internet, the contact is perfectly legal for ARRL contests and
 counts as having been made from Ghana.
 
 Hope this clarifies the issue, at least a little.
 
 73, Dick WC1M
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Robert McGwier [mailto:rwmcgw...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 1:27 PM
 To: Tree
 Cc: topband@contesting.com
 Subject: Re: Topband: Web SDR's and 'Cheating'
 
 As a Software Radio Developer and chair of the ARRL Software Defined Radio
 and Digital Communications technical committee, as a DXCC recipient,
 contester, and as a ham radio operator period, I abhor this misuse of the
 technology.  Boo Hiss indeed.
 
 Bob
 N4HY
 
 
 On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Tree t...@kkn.net wrote:
 
 On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 07:21:26PM -0800, Bob Kupps wrote:
 
 What is the ethical position on this, it sure seems wrong to me
 
 What country are the people really working with their radio?
 
 There is not a two way exchange of information with someone in a
 single country - therefore - no QSO.  The DX station is making
 these QSOs not count.  If caught - they will not be accepted for
 DXCC.
 
 Next step - put the transmitter there too and make it even easier!!
 
 Boo hiss!!
 
 Tree N6TR
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
 
 
 
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK 
 
___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Web SDR's and 'Cheating'

[Dick Green WC1M]

Your SDR was effectively a remote receiver used by the DX station. Credit
for contacts made utilizing remote receivers depends on the rules governing
specific awards and contests. Here's the relevant rule governing DXCC
credit:

9. All stations must be contacted from the same DXCC entity. The location of
any station shall be defined as the location of the transmitter. For the
purposes of this award, remote operating points must be located within the
same DXCC entity as the transmitter and receiver.

As you can see, this isn't completely clear. In the first part of the
sentence, remote operating points is not defined. Does that include only
the transmitter, as defined in the second sentence, or both the transmitter
and receiver, as suggested by the second part of the third sentence? In
fact, the second part of the third sentence appears to contradict the second
sentence! My guess is that they want the transmitter and receiver to be
located in the same DXCC entity, but this is not stated explicitly.

Fortunately, the situation is much clearer for ARRL contests, and for most
CQ contests: remote receivers are not allowed. Period. (Well, except for the
Extreme category in CQ WW.) For ARRL, the definition of a remote receiver
rests on General Rule 5.3, which states that all transmitters, receivers and
antennas must be within a 500m circle. Since the 160m contact made by the DX
station utilized a transmitter in his location and a remote receiver (your
SDR and antenna) located more than 500m from the transmitter, it would not
be eligible for credit in any ARRL contest and in most CQ contests and
categories.

However, note that the ARRL rules on remote receivers do not preclude the
operator from being outside the circle. So, you can remotely operate a
station that's anywhere else in the world. The location of the transmitter
and receiver (which must be within the same 500m circle) defines where the
station is located, not the op's location. So, if you operate a transmitter
and receiver located within the same 500m circle in Ghana, and you are
sitting comfortably in your easy chair in Brooklyn, NY, running the station
over the Internet, the contact is perfectly legal for ARRL contests and
counts as having been made from Ghana.

Hope this clarifies the issue, at least a little.

73, Dick WC1M


 




-Original Message-
From: Robert McGwier [mailto:rwmcgw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 1:27 PM
To: Tree
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Web SDR's and 'Cheating'

As a Software Radio Developer and chair of the ARRL Software Defined Radio
and Digital Communications technical committee, as a DXCC recipient,
contester, and as a ham radio operator period, I abhor this misuse of the
technology.  Boo Hiss indeed.

Bob
N4HY


On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Tree t...@kkn.net wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 07:21:26PM -0800, Bob Kupps wrote:

  What is the ethical position on this, it sure seems wrong to me

 What country are the people really working with their radio?

 There is not a two way exchange of information with someone in a
 single country - therefore - no QSO.  The DX station is making
 these QSOs not count.  If caught - they will not be accepted for
 DXCC.

 Next step - put the transmitter there too and make it even easier!!

 Boo hiss!!

 Tree N6TR
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK



___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK