Re: Topband: 160 FT8

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 2/19/2024 10:22 PM, n...@comcast.net wrote:
> Yes, I can earn  a 80m CW DXCC,  80m PHONE DXCC, 80m DIGITAL DXCC,

What makes you say that?

I have reviewed the DXCC rules, the DXCC (paper) application, the
Online DXCC Application, and the LotW DXCC Application and in none
of them do I find *any* reference to mode endorsements for *any*
of the single band DXCC Awards.  The only reference to endorsements
for the single band DXCC are for number of "countries" and that
applies to all single band awards.

Rule 5 speaks to the matter of endorsements for single band awards
and the only difference between 160/80/VHF/UHF and 40-10 is the
steps at which endorsement stickers are issued.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/19/2024 10:22 PM, n...@comcast.net wrote:

Yes, I can earn  a 80m CW DXCC,  80m PHONE DXCC, 80m DIGITAL DXCC,

BUT NOT  160M CW DXCC !

Whatever you call it,  it is not right, not is no fair. PHONE I used my voice, 
CW I used my skills, FT* YOU used your PC.

Who will be the first  to claim # 300 on 160m FT*.

No shame on that!

73;s
N4IS





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Re: Topband: 160 FT8

[n4is]

Yes, I can earn  a 80m CW DXCC,  80m PHONE DXCC, 80m DIGITAL DXCC, 

BUT NOT  160M CW DXCC !

Whatever you call it,  it is not right, not is no fair. PHONE I used my voice, 
CW I used my skills, FT* YOU used your PC.

Who will be the first  to claim # 300 on 160m FT*.

No shame on that!

73;s
N4IS

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of 
Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 10:01 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 FT8



On 2/19/2024 9:30 PM, Tree wrote:

> But I do disagree with that statement.  You still used your ears with 
> SSB.
Go back even further ... when Phone came along.  Where was the
skill in phone (compared to CW)?   FT8 may be the modern Phone.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2/19/2024 9:30 PM, Tree wrote:
> Agree that this is getting old.
> 
> "Go back and research the transition from AM to SSB.  It’s much the same."
> 
> But I do disagree with that statement.  You still used your ears with SSB.
> 
> Tree N6TR
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 6:10 PM Cecil acuff  wrote:
> 
>> FT8 is here to stay….and there will be others!
>>
>> Go back and research the transition from AM to SSB.  It’s much the same.
>> Complain as you will….if you cling to CW as the only valid mode of 
>> communications on Top Band, you will fail.  You are willing to 
>> sacrifice RTTY to FT8 just recently… in an effort to justify your 
>> position….to no avail.  Technology moves forward….you stay behind.  
>> All modes are valid and there is nothing you can do to halt it.
>>
>> AM, SSB, CW, RTTY, Digital modes including FT8….all valid. Doesn’t 
>> matter if you used a bug or a laptop…all valid.
>>
>> Fight about remote ops…a much more productive fight!…..that’s if you 
>> must fight!
>>
>> This discussion is getting old….
>>
>> Cecil
>> K5DL
>>
>>



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Re: Topband: 160 FT8

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 2/19/2024 9:30 PM, Tree wrote:


But I do disagree with that statement.  You still used your ears with
SSB.

Go back even further ... when Phone came along.  Where was the
skill in phone (compared to CW)?   FT8 may be the modern Phone.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/19/2024 9:30 PM, Tree wrote:

Agree that this is getting old.

"Go back and research the transition from AM to SSB.  It’s much the same."

But I do disagree with that statement.  You still used your ears with SSB.

Tree N6TR

On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 6:10 PM Cecil acuff  wrote:


FT8 is here to stay….and there will be others!

Go back and research the transition from AM to SSB.  It’s much the same.
Complain as you will….if you cling to CW as the only valid mode of
communications on Top Band, you will fail.  You are willing to sacrifice
RTTY to FT8 just recently… in an effort to justify your position….to no
avail.  Technology moves forward….you stay behind.  All modes are valid and
there is nothing you can do to halt it.

AM, SSB, CW, RTTY, Digital modes including FT8….all valid. Doesn’t matter
if you used a bug or a laptop…all valid.

Fight about remote ops…a much more productive fight!…..that’s if you must
fight!

This discussion is getting old….

Cecil
K5DL






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Re: Topband: 160 FT8

[Tree]

Agree that this is getting old.

"Go back and research the transition from AM to SSB.  It’s much the same.  "

But I do disagree with that statement.  You still used your ears with SSB.

Tree N6TR

On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 6:10 PM Cecil acuff  wrote:

> FT8 is here to stay….and there will be others!
>
> Go back and research the transition from AM to SSB.  It’s much the same.
> Complain as you will….if you cling to CW as the only valid mode of
> communications on Top Band, you will fail.  You are willing to sacrifice
> RTTY to FT8 just recently… in an effort to justify your position….to no
> avail.  Technology moves forward….you stay behind.  All modes are valid and
> there is nothing you can do to halt it.
>
> AM, SSB, CW, RTTY, Digital modes including FT8….all valid. Doesn’t matter
> if you used a bug or a laptop…all valid.
>
> Fight about remote ops…a much more productive fight!…..that’s if you must
> fight!
>
> This discussion is getting old….
>
> Cecil
> K5DL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 19, 2024, at 5:46 PM, Bob Kile  wrote:
> > The discussion goes on. In case one hasn't noticed we are in a solar
> maximum. I work what I can when I can and get sleep unlike "Charlie Fox".
> >
> > FT8 for me is a tool. If I call CQ for a few minutes on FT8 in 15
> minutes I can see world wide with it's  thousands of stations using PSK
> Reporter the current state of propagation.
> >
> > Last evening after the contest I ran JTDX in SWL mode over night. The so
> called dead band yielded 41 unique call signs in EU. About half would have
> been workable on CW. This was with my antenna stuck beaming 90 degrees
> which normally would be pointing at 25 degrees.
> >
> > In these crap conditions to work new ones you need to pull out all the
> tools such as low noise RX antennas, spectrum and waterfall displays,
> spotting and even FT8. While I'm not an advocate of FT8 it certainly has
> it's place and to work DX it takes some savvy by not just calling CQ and
> having the program auto answer the strongest of the group calling.
> >
> > Dxpeditions these days cost piles of money. Very few can fork out $25K
> of personal funds to go  or attempt to go to some remote piece of dirt in
> the middle of nowhere. They run on donations from clubs, manufacturers,
> retailers and  individuals. The more contacts they make the better chance
> of recouping some of the real costs.
> >
> > I saw in one post a negative comment about Rig in a Box. With all the
> hot air from "Save the World" fanatics it has become extremely difficult to
> permission to operate from many  places  that 20 years ago was possible.
> >
> > As a Ham operator for 58 years now and I go with the flow. I see many
> new faces and at some point they will mature into what what we perceive is
> ham radio if we give them a chance. I prefer not to be the last guy calling
> CQ with a sign posted  "when done please turn off the lights".
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Bob W7RH
> >
> > --
> > W7RH DM35OJ
> >
> >
> > If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to
> say the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. George Carlin
> >
> >
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
> _
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> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: 160 FT8

[Cecil acuff]

FT8 is here to stay….and there will be others!

Go back and research the transition from AM to SSB.  It’s much the same.  
Complain as you will….if you cling to CW as the only valid mode of 
communications on Top Band, you will fail.  You are willing to sacrifice RTTY 
to FT8 just recently… in an effort to justify your position….to no avail.  
Technology moves forward….you stay behind.  All modes are valid and there is 
nothing you can do to halt it.

AM, SSB, CW, RTTY, Digital modes including FT8….all valid. Doesn’t matter if 
you used a bug or a laptop…all valid. 

Fight about remote ops…a much more productive fight!…..that’s if you must fight!

This discussion is getting old….

Cecil
K5DL






Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 19, 2024, at 5:46 PM, Bob Kile  wrote:
> The discussion goes on. In case one hasn't noticed we are in a solar 
> maximum. I work what I can when I can and get sleep unlike "Charlie Fox".
> 
> FT8 for me is a tool. If I call CQ for a few minutes on FT8 in 15 minutes I 
> can see world wide with it's  thousands of stations using PSK Reporter the 
> current state of propagation.
> 
> Last evening after the contest I ran JTDX in SWL mode over night. The so 
> called dead band yielded 41 unique call signs in EU. About half would have 
> been workable on CW. This was with my antenna stuck beaming 90 degrees which 
> normally would be pointing at 25 degrees.
> 
> In these crap conditions to work new ones you need to pull out all the tools 
> such as low noise RX antennas, spectrum and waterfall displays, spotting and 
> even FT8. While I'm not an advocate of FT8 it certainly has it's place and to 
> work DX it takes some savvy by not just calling CQ and having the program 
> auto answer the strongest of the group calling.
> 
> Dxpeditions these days cost piles of money. Very few can fork out $25K of 
> personal funds to go  or attempt to go to some remote piece of dirt in the 
> middle of nowhere. They run on donations from clubs, manufacturers, retailers 
> and  individuals. The more contacts they make the better chance of recouping 
> some of the real costs.
> 
> I saw in one post a negative comment about Rig in a Box. With all the hot air 
> from "Save the World" fanatics it has become extremely difficult to 
> permission to operate from many  places  that 20 years ago was possible.
> 
> As a Ham operator for 58 years now and I go with the flow. I see many new 
> faces and at some point they will mature into what what we perceive is ham 
> radio if we give them a chance. I prefer not to be the last guy calling CQ 
> with a sign posted  "when done please turn off the lights".
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob W7RH
> 
> --
> W7RH DM35OJ
> 
> 
> If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say 
> the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. George Carlin
> 
> 
> _
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Re: Topband: 160 FT8

[Bob Kile]

The discussion goes on. In case one hasn't noticed we are in a solar 
maximum. I work what I can when I can and get sleep unlike "Charlie Fox".


FT8 for me is a tool. If I call CQ for a few minutes on FT8 in 15 
minutes I can see world wide with it's  thousands of stations using PSK 
Reporter the current state of propagation.


Last evening after the contest I ran JTDX in SWL mode over night. The so 
called dead band yielded 41 unique call signs in EU. About half would 
have been workable on CW. This was with my antenna stuck beaming 90 
degrees which normally would be pointing at 25 degrees.


In these crap conditions to work new ones you need to pull out all the 
tools such as low noise RX antennas, spectrum and waterfall displays, 
spotting and even FT8. While I'm not an advocate of FT8 it certainly has 
it's place and to work DX it takes some savvy by not just calling CQ and 
having the program auto answer the strongest of the group calling.


Dxpeditions these days cost piles of money. Very few can fork out $25K 
of personal funds to go  or attempt to go to some remote piece of dirt 
in the middle of nowhere. They run on donations from clubs, 
manufacturers, retailers and  individuals. The more contacts they make 
the better chance of recouping some of the real costs.


I saw in one post a negative comment about Rig in a Box. With all the 
hot air from "Save the World" fanatics it has become extremely difficult 
to permission to operate from many  places  that 20 years ago was possible.


As a Ham operator for 58 years now and I go with the flow. I see many 
new faces and at some point they will mature into what what we perceive 
is ham radio if we give them a chance. I prefer not to be the last guy 
calling CQ with a sign posted  "when done please turn off the lights".


73

Bob W7RH

--
W7RH DM35OJ


If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say 
the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. George Carlin


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Re: Topband: 160 FT8

[Steven Daniel]

So Rino, how do you really feel about FT8 and its cousins?
Steve, NN4T
Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 19, 2024, at 12:32 PM, Salvatore Borace  wrote:
> 
> I want if stop comment on this reflector about qso on that shit mode,
> really not know what Is the satisfaction when your PC make this qso, so i
> preferred lost my ears on weak cw signal.
> Rino IK7JTF
> _
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Re: Topband: 160 Contest - EU Opening

[Steve Harrison]

On 1/29/2024 2:22 PM, ars.k...@gmail.com wrote:

The second night had the surprise strong EU opening from 0520 - 0610Z.


(Saturday night only): My first was CT9ABO at 0430, then nothing until 
0559 with OK1DOL and then DK6WL at 0603. Then after a bit, I worked S57Q 
at 0620, then my last Euro was CR6K at 0730. Assuming NA7TB is in 
Scottsdale, AZ, and I'm in 29 Palms, CA, then I'm about 200 miles just 
about due west of you. Hard to believe propagation would be so 
spotlighted on such a low frequency as 1800 - 1850 kHz; but there you 
are. I don't exactly recall when I heard HA8RE as strong as he was.


I can't help but wonder what W8KA managed to snag and when, as he also 
has a potent 8-circle array. K6NR, in Parks, AZ, would be just about 
halfway and slightly north between Scottsdale and myself, while W8KA 
would be around halfway between Scottsdale and Parks, I think. Isn't 
ND7K well to your southeast by some 150+ miles? I drove through Safford 
awhile back watching for humungous towers but I guess they're well off 
the beaten track in the desert or on one of the mountains nearby?


I wonder when/if the LA, Orange county, and SD guys heard/worked Europe??

Last year, I worked HG8DX, MW5B, and DR4A between 0430 and 0452Z; I 
don't recall whether I heard but unsuccessfully called other Euros last 
year. Next year, I'll have to try to make a "Heard Log" of this schtuff  8-)


Steve, K0XP



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Re: Topband: 160 м

[uy0zg via Topband]

Here are just two masterpieces (see files).

---
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua

uy0zg via Topband писал 2023-10-13 19:38:

Hello people!
Tonight there is a holiday in Europe - the WEBSDR festival.

 Many don't even disguise themselves. The best of the best 
gathered. I

myself do not work as an FT.
But it’s interesting to look at the circus.
 Look at the file.
--
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua
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Re: Topband: 160 Retirement VO1HP

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Well, for a long time, a 160 test was not complete without VO1HP in the
log. But I certainly do understand the WX and related strains up there. My
brother lived in St Johns for a while. One of my nieces is a “Newfie”.
 (She lives in Atlanta burbs now. )

Frank was a contributor in the early days getting FCP going. Particularly
in solutions to support L’s bend with a tower.

Good luck Frank. See you on 80m.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 3:46 PM Frank  wrote:

> The time has come to downsize my operations. I  thought I would let my
> Topband friends know that I have retired from 160M and will not appear on
> the band this season.  Yesterday I took down my lowband tower which
> supported an inverted L and FCP at my remote site.  The  "L" has been
> coiled and ready to pass on to a younger addict!  I thank Guy K2AV for his
> development work on the Folded Counterpoise. The FCP has proven to be very
> effective for me.
>
>  I have 77 turns on my coil and will not have to worry about the 100kmph+
> winds, snows and ice of our Newfoundland winter,  battering away at my
> overhead wires. I have 238 DXCC confirmed and have thoroughly enjoyed 160M
> since my first QSO with Bob Kavanaugh VE1AXT in 1974. (Recently SK VE3OSZ)
> There was one interruption of about 10 years in the 1980's when family and
> professional duties combined with a lack of real estate kept me off the
> band.
>
> My forward focus will be on completion of 5BWAZ.  I need 4 Zones on 80M and
> Zone 23 on 10M.
>
> All the best to you Topbanders!
>
> 73
> Frank VO1HP
>
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> >
> Virus-free.www.avast.com
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> >
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: Topband: 160 ain't dead yet.

[Raymond Benny]

Did work an F5 last night, 0445z on 160m FT8.
Have not heard EU on CW lately, but only briefly tune 160m.

Ray,
N6VR, W7YA on FT8
Arizona

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:39 AM Henk PA5KT via Topband 
wrote:

> Roger,
>
> It is a matter of definition of what you call Good conditions.
>
> To me the average conditions are if I hear eastern states in the VE1,
> VE2, W1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 9 call areas..
>
> Conditions are good when I also hear VE3, W0, W4, W5.
>
> Conditions are very good if I can hear all of North America.
>
> During the CQ160 contest conditions were above average as I heard all
> east coast states and some Midwest.
>
> This weekend I only heard VE1, VE2, eastern VE3, W1, W2, W3 and NC and
> FL. To me that qualifies as bad.
>
> It looks like the polar activity absorbed everything west of W3.
> Additional to that signals were below average.
>
> 73 Henk PA5KT
>
> Op 23-2-2023 om 10:21 schreef Roger Kennedy:
> >
> > It's always fascinating how very localised DX Propagation can be on Top
> > Band, I noted how several Europeans said that propagation to NA was very
> > poor over the weekend, whereas I found it pretty good.
> >
> > 73 Roger G3YRO
> >
> >
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
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Re: Topband: 160 ain't dead yet.

[Henk PA5KT via Topband]

Roger,

It is a matter of definition of what you call Good conditions.

To me the average conditions are if I hear eastern states in the VE1, 
VE2, W1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 9 call areas..


Conditions are good when I also hear VE3, W0, W4, W5.

Conditions are very good if I can hear all of North America.

During the CQ160 contest conditions were above average as I heard all 
east coast states and some Midwest.


This weekend I only heard VE1, VE2, eastern VE3, W1, W2, W3 and NC and 
FL. To me that qualifies as bad.


It looks like the polar activity absorbed everything west of W3. 
Additional to that signals were below average.


73 Henk PA5KT

Op 23-2-2023 om 10:21 schreef Roger Kennedy:


It's always fascinating how very localised DX Propagation can be on Top
Band, I noted how several Europeans said that propagation to NA was very
poor over the weekend, whereas I found it pretty good.

73 Roger G3YRO


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Re: Topband: 160 ain't dead yet.

[GEORGE WALLNER]

I heard OK1CF calling CQ. Karel was a real 599. He came back and gave me 
599+.
Later, OM2WX called with a very solid signal. A couple of other weak EU 
stations later, but I had to go on watch and could not continue.


QTH: Abut 30 miles from Cocos Island (TI9), in EJ65.
1 kW and a 50 foot vertical.
Ain't Dead for sure,

73,
George
AA7JV


On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 09:21:48 - "Roger Kennedy"  wrote:

Sorry I couldn't copy you calling me last night Guy . . . I've still got
this local noise problem (OFCOM back again next week, so keep hoping they
will shut the source down)

I popped on a couple of times last night . . . but didn't stay on long. as
reports from RBN stations were very poor !

It's always fascinating how very localised DX Propagation can be on Top
Band, I noted how several Europeans said that propagation to NA was very
poor over the weekend, whereas I found it pretty good.

73 Roger G3YRO


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Re: Topband: 160 from 3Y0J

[Jim Brown]

Blank email. I think all contesting.com reflectors reject formatted 
text, and I know they reject attachments.


73, Jim K9YC

On 2/8/2023 2:59 PM, Dave Jorgensen wrote:


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Re: Topband: 160 last night (Monday)

[Frank W3LPL]

Hi Ron,

You reported "With A of 30 hardly expected band to be open."
The A-index for 2100Z Sunday through 2100Z Monday was 14, not 30.

You inadvertently reported the prior day A-index of 30 for 2100Z
Saturday through 2100Z Sunday.  It was very stale by last night!

The A-index is calculated as the average of eight, three-hour magnetic
observatory scaled K-indices observed during the 24 hour UT day.
It provides a single, average value to indicate the activity level
for the prior 24 hour period ending at 2100Z each day.

The trend of k-index values is better correlated to current propagation
conditions than the prior day A-index. Preliminary k-index values are
received minute-by-minute from a global network of magnetic observatories
and reported at the end of each 3-hour reporting period.  For example, the
0300Z k-index is computed from near-real-time magnetic observatory
preliminary k-index reports received from -0300Z.

Last night's k-index reports clearly illustrate how the k-index was
better correlated to observed propagation than the prior day A-index.
You can clearly see how the k-indices of 2, 3, 4 and 5 during 16-Jan
resulted in a somewhat elevated A-index of 14 at 2100Z 16-Jan

This is today's A and k-index reporting from Z to 1500Z 17-Jan.
The A-index that will be reported at 2100Z today will probably be a
single digit if today's K-indices remain low through 2100Z.

   Date Hour  SFI   A   K
 
17-Jan-2023 15228   14  1
17-Jan-2023 12228   14  1
17-Jan-2023 09228   14  2
17-Jan-2023 06228   14  2
17-Jan-2023 03228   14  1
17-Jan-2023 00228   14  1

Scaled average k-index reports of about 3 for the 24 hours prior to 2100Z 16-Jan
produced an A-index of 14 at 2100Z 16-Jan:

16-Jan-2023 21228   14  2
16-Jan-2023 18234   30  3
16-Jan-2023 15234   30  3
16-Jan-2023 12234   30  3
16-Jan-2023 09234   30  3
16-Jan-2023 06234   30  2
16-Jan-2023 03234   30  4
16-Jan-2023 00234   30  5

Scaled average k-index reports of about 4 for the 24 hours prior to 2100Z 15-Jan
produced an A-index of 25 at 2100Z 15-Jan, later revised to 30 at Z 16-Jan.

15-Jan-2023 21234   25  4
15-Jan-2023 18228   11  3
15-Jan-2023 15228   11  4
15-Jan-2023 12228   11  4
15-Jan-2023 09228   11  4
15-Jan-2023 06228   11  4
15-Jan-2023 03228   11  5
15-Jan-2023 00228   11  3

Scaled average k-index reports of about 2 for the 24 hours prior to 2100Z 14-Jan
produced an A-index of 15 at 2100Z 14-Jan, later revised to 11 at Z 16-Jan.

14-Jan-2023 21228   15  2
14-Jan-2023 18209   12  1
14-Jan-2023 15209   12  1
14-Jan-2023 12209   12  1
14-Jan-2023 09209   12  2
14-Jan-2023 06209   12  4
14-Jan-2023 03209   12  4
14-Jan-2023 00209   12  4

73
Frank
W3LPL




- Original Message -
From: "Ron Spencer via Topband" 
To: "Topband@Contesting. Com" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2023 2:54:05 PM
Subject: Topband: 160 last night (Monday)

Was an interesting evening (1/16 local). With A of 30 hardly expected band to 
be open. But, it was and very well. 



First Q was Andy, DL8LAS at 22:28. Last was at 23:27 (took some time off for 
dinner), Karel, OK1CF. All had very good signals. Perhaps the best of the year. 
Worked DL, ON, G (several), MD0, RA3, OK. Nothing really remarkable except, all 
were worked with 100W. Not sure I've ever worked that many stations with 100W 
on 160. Too bad we didn't have these conditions for Stew Perry contest  



Did hear, around 2309, TN8K as loud as I've ever heard them. Peaking 10 to 15dB 
above my noise. Very much appreciate all the effort that team has put into 
working 80 and 160.  


This morning (1/17) band seemed busted but then heard Dennis, ZL1AZ, work AA1K 
with a Q5 signal. Unfortunately Dennis then seemed to fade. But, JH1HDT and 
JA5DQH (with a very strong signal) were both worked (with a kw this time!). So, 
overall, a fun evening and morning


Ron

N4XD
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Re: Topband: 160 last night (Monday)

[David Raymond]

The eastern half of the country had the good conditions last night.  
Conditions were poor here in Iowa. . .  I could not hear Andy/DL8LAS nor 
Karel/OK1CF.  TN8K has was weak earlier in the evening but rose to 559 
around z.  This morning at first seemed to be a lost cause, but then 
ZL1AZ, JH1HDT, JA5DQH, and JA5BIN (with difficulty) went into the log.  
JA1LZR is on nearly every morning (NA time) but was no copy.  Let's hope 
we have some good prop for 3Y0J!     73. . . Dave, W0FLS


On 1/17/2023 8:54 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:

Was an interesting evening (1/16 local). With A of 30 hardly expected band to 
be open. But, it was and very well.



First Q was Andy, DL8LAS at 22:28. Last was at 23:27 (took some time off for 
dinner), Karel, OK1CF. All had very good signals. Perhaps the best of the year. 
Worked DL, ON, G (several), MD0, RA3, OK. Nothing really remarkable except, all 
were worked with 100W. Not sure I've ever worked that many stations with 100W 
on 160. Too bad we didn't have these conditions for Stew Perry contest



Did hear, around 2309, TN8K as loud as I've ever heard them. Peaking 10 to 15dB 
above my noise. Very much appreciate all the effort that team has put into 
working 80 and 160.


This morning (1/17) band seemed busted but then heard Dennis, ZL1AZ, work AA1K 
with a Q5 signal. Unfortunately Dennis then seemed to fade. But, JH1HDT and 
JA5DQH (with a very strong signal) were both worked (with a kw this time!). So, 
overall, a fun evening and morning


Ron

N4XD
Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: 160 contest; dits and dahs; propagation

[GEORGE WALLNER]

We normally make 1300 Q-s in this contest. This year, with a lot of hard 
work, only 994. Propagation had to be very selective. C6AGU was consistently 
20 - 24 dB on the W3LPL RBN, but not heard at W3HKK. At the same time, EU 
stations were causing QRM on the RX antenna, which is 10 dB down towards EU.

Strange conditions, indeed.


73,
George,
C6AGU

On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 17:12:30 + w3...@roadrunner.com wrote:

Interesting comments!

I specifically listened at my SR but heard no JA's.

Also typically in this contest at certain hours I get a steady stream
of W6, W7 replies - many surprisingly strong. This time it was less
than 20. The West was fairly sparse, there were many cracks in the QRM
wall, and it seemed most sigs were from the NE, Mid-Atlantic regions.
4 Land is usually a big contributor to the log, but again this time
much less so. Probably goes to show just how telescopic propagation can be on 
TB, ie
spotty. Re: DX: I looked for every DX spot and heard none from EU. The
Carrib was about it. No CA or SA ( other than XE.) Or Pacific other
than KH6. Dits and dahs: My CQ CW Contest submission feedback results get hit
pretty hard by penalties, and one of the major errors is the other guy
logging me as SKK - so now I try to repeat it an extra time, slowing
way down on the H. I thought I might have a sending problem with my
7610 memories, but now chalk it up to noise/qsb/haste to move on to
the next guy. I do hear and appreciate when the other guy slows down
his call. Really helps me get it right by minimizing guesses. Worked KH6 around 
11:30 pm local time here..a bit of a surprise, and
then later saw a spot for KL7 but he was buried in the noise and never
got him in the log. Usually hear them well around my midnight and
sometimes before my SR. Nothing else heard from the Pacific or JA,
even though I had worked JA two mornings before.

Bob

-
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Re: Topband: 160 contest; dits and dahs; propagation

[W3HKK]

Interesting comments!

I specifically listened at my SR but heard no JA's.

Also typically in this contest at certain hours I get a steady stream
of W6, W7 replies - many surprisingly strong. This time it was less
than 20. The West was fairly sparse, there were many cracks in the QRM
wall, and it seemed most sigs were from the NE, Mid-Atlantic regions.
4 Land is usually a big contributor to the log, but again this time
much less so. 

Probably goes to show just how telescopic propagation can be on TB, ie
spotty. Re: DX: I looked for every DX spot and heard none from EU. The
Carrib was about it. No CA or SA ( other than XE.) Or Pacific other
than KH6. 

Dits and dahs: My CQ CW Contest submission feedback results get hit
pretty hard by penalties, and one of the major errors is the other guy
logging me as SKK - so now I try to repeat it an extra time, slowing
way down on the H. I thought I might have a sending problem with my
7610 memories, but now chalk it up to noise/qsb/haste to move on to
the next guy. I do hear and appreciate when the other guy slows down
his call. Really helps me get it right by minimizing guesses. 

Worked KH6 around 11:30 pm local time here..a bit of a surprise, and
then later saw a spot for KL7 but he was buried in the noise and never
got him in the log. Usually hear them well around my midnight and
sometimes before my SR. Nothing else heard from the Pacific or JA,
even though I had worked JA two mornings before.

Bob

-
***

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Re: Topband: 160 today (11/15/22)

[VE6WZ_Steve]

FB on Asia picking up for you Ron.
Indeed the JAs and Kim where very strong here this morning.

Also on the band is Dieter, DL3DXX from his HS0ZFE station getting ready for 
CQWW.
I heard him call Kim HL5IVL, then he moved up the band and called CQ.
He got my call ok on my second call, so he has good ears.
He was best on the west RX, which is a skew path. (Direct path is very NE)

My RBN skimmers were working overtime this morning.

FYI, With my new RX system using splitters and switches allows me to RX in 
multiple directions at the same time.
I now have 2 dedicated 160m skimmers, and usually one is on the VK-ZL RX, while 
the other is Asia.
I am splitting out each skimmer with unique names so I can track each and do 
some antenna evaluation over the winter.
You may see VE6WZ-1, and VE6WZ-2.


73, de steve ve6wz

> On Nov 15, 2022, at 12:30 PM, Ron Spencer via Topband 
>  wrote:
> 
> Last night pretty good prop to EU. Worked several stations. But, not much 
> activity.
> 
> 
> 
> This morning, K3ZM was waking the band up. Heard several JA and HL5IVL call 
> and work him. I tried CQing but got no answers (guess I need to improve my 
> signal!). 
> 
> 
> 
> But, couple JA's did call CQ as did Kim (HL5IVL) and I was able to work them. 
> Nice to (finally) have prop in that direction. Hoping it continues and gets 
> better. 
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian, VK2WF, was reported on but I never heard anything from him. 
> 
> 
> 
> Would have been interesting to hear what the far east signals sounded like 
> from the place I have in NM (grid DM64). Bet they were LOUD! Even on my short 
> beverage to the NE. 
> 
> 
> 
> 73
> 
> 
> 
> Ron
> 
> N4XD
> 
> 
> Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: 160 propagation

[Mark Lunday]

Val, that's quite remarkable.  Nodir, EY8MM, says he has always struggled from 
Central Asia with auroral zone to get into US on top band.  I have listened for 
years and never heard him on TB.  I wonder if this is correlation to 
right-after-a-geomagnetic-storm propagation I always hear about.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of 
Hugh Valentine
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:25 PM
To: Richard Karlquist ; w3...@roadrunner.com
Cc: 'topband@contesting.com' ; Topband 

Subject: Re: Topband: 160 propagation

I had a great Week!  On 160

All of a sudden, while I was in the Shack I get an Alert..."G" 
comes through on JTAlert.
EX0QR comes up on screen, work him after 2 calls, he sends RR73 at -24.

Checked Log.  I'm in!  #305.  I had called EX8M for several years on CW.

Wow!

Val

N4RJ
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Re: Topband: 160 propagation

[Hugh Valentine]

I had a great Week!  On 160

All of a sudden, while I was in the Shack I get an Alert…”G” comes 
through on JTAlert.
EX0QR comes up on screen, work him after 2 calls, he sends RR73 at -24.

Checked Log.  I’m in!  #305.  I had called EX8M for several years on CW.

Wow!

Val

N4RJ

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows


From: Topband  on behalf of 
Richard Karlquist 
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 2:15:09 PM
To: w3...@roadrunner.com 
Cc: 'topband@contesting.com' ; Topband 

Subject: Re: Topband: 160 propagation

Luke came back to my CQ with signals that were armchair copy.

He appeared to also have good copy on me, even though I was only running
100 watts.

---
Rick
N6RK

On 2022-03-17 10:48, w3...@roadrunner.com wrote:

> Roger - its amazing how the SP Spring Contest brought in quite a few
> F, OM, DL sigs that were strong. Plus my local sunrise CQ SP brought
> back a reply from Luke, VK3HJ - NICE surprise!
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Re: Topband: 160 propagation

[Richard Karlquist]

Luke came back to my CQ with signals that were armchair copy. 

He appeared to also have good copy on me, even though I was only running
100 watts.

---
Rick 
N6RK 

On 2022-03-17 10:48, w3...@roadrunner.com wrote:

> Roger - its amazing how the SP Spring Contest brought in quite a few
> F, OM, DL sigs that were strong. Plus my local sunrise CQ SP brought
> back a reply from Luke, VK3HJ - NICE surprise!
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Re: Topband: 160 propagation

[W3HKK]

Roger - its amazing how the SP Spring Contest brought in quite a few
F, OM, DL sigs that were strong. Plus my local sunrise CQ SP brought
back a reply from Luke, VK3HJ - NICE surprise! 

But since that weekend, 160 has been quiet ( other than QRN, of
course.) 


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Re: Topband: 160 M portabel antenna

[Rick]

Hi Joe,

 

I have plans for making a 160m Inv.-L, using the Spiderbeam 12m pole on my
web site, here:

https://www.dj0ip.de/vertical-antennas/160m-inv-l-on-12m-pole/ 

 

160m Vertical

If you use 4 Top-Hat wires, you can shorten the diagonal wires quite a bit,
but I can't say by how much.

I would suggest making all 4 wires equal in length, equally spaced, and then
measure where it is resonant.

You can probably begin by making the wires 30m long, but cut them 35m long,
and fold back 5m of each onto itself.

 

Adding 80m

Once you have that working, you can parallel an 80m Inv.-L

Take a look at how I do this for a 160m/80m on the 18 meter fg pole:

https://www.dj0ip.de/vertical-antennas/160-80m-on-18m-pole/ 

This will give you an idea on how to do it on the 12m pole.

Just make the vertical segment shorter and the diagonal leg longer.

 

We have never tried this using the new 10m Mini-Pole.

It is probably too short, though 80/40 should be no problem with it.

 

73 - Rick, DJ0IP

(Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)

May the Sunspots be with Us!

 

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of
OZ0J Joe
Sent: 28 September 2021 20:58
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160 M portabel antenna

 

Hi

 

 

I do hope that the world will be reopened also for DX-peditions. I still
hope to visit OC again since I was QRV from KH0 and T8 (2014) and KH8 (2019)

- and not working 160 meter cause to the time of the year.

 

 

I visit regular my radio neighbour OZ1LO. Most of the DXCCs that Leif are
missing, are from OC. I guess he is not the only one in all 3 Regions. 

 

 

Based on the above I am looking for a 160 M - or combined 160 / 80 M
antenna, with these demands:

 

 

Travel length either max 75 cm (approx. 30 inch.) - fits in a large suitcase

 

or travel length max 130 cm (approx. 51 inch.) - fits in a ski box.

 

 

Spiderbeam makes fiberglass poles in many sizes and present I am waiting for
delivery of the new 10 meter fiberglass pole. That pole fits to a large
suitcase during travel.

 

 

The weight must be a low a possible and the antenna should be installed by
one or two persons.

 

 

Any suggestions to a 160 meter antenna here or direct to me off the list are
welcome. 

 

 

 

73 Joe, OZ0J 

 

 

 

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Re: Topband: 160 condx

[VE6WZ_Steve]

Luke,

Thanks for being QRV!
In fact thanks to VK3HJ, VK2WF, ZL1AZ, and VK3NX for being QRV on 160m almost 
every day during our NA summer.
Every single day this summer that I have been at the radio before sunrise, one 
or all of the above have been QRV and workable on 160m.
I am surprised that more NA is not QRV….especially from the WC.

My SS is now at 3:12z, and I have started listening for EU, but the geo-mag has 
been stubbornly cycling ever week with elevated periods.  Lets hope things 
settle down a bit for the winter trans-polar session.
I will try and remain active most evenings looking for EU on CW.

73, de steve ve6wz.

> On Aug 11, 2021, at 6:35 PM, List Mail  wrote:
> 
> Not many on at this time of the year, even when there is a little bit of 
> propagation most evenings. I’m really looking forward to the end of winter, 
> when conditions usually improve. It has just been wet and cold, and wet and 
> cold.
> 73, Luke VK3HJ.
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows
> 
> From: David Raymond
> Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2021 2:45 AM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160 condx
> 
> With daytime heat indices in the 100s it's still very QRN here in the 
> midwest.  Fortunately things will begin to improve in a few weeks.
> 
> 73 . . . Dave, W0FLS
> 
> On 8/11/2021 11:28 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:
>> Andy, DL8LAS, was right, conditions the last couple days have been quite 
>> good. Last night (my time) I was able to work Andy with 100W. Even when 
>> condx are quiet that's a pretty tough task. Karel, OK1CF, is also a pretty 
>> constant signal from EU.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In my mornings have worked VK2WF, VK3HJ, ZL1AZ all with pretty good signals.
>> 
>> 
>> As Andy noted, good to see activity pick up some, even with it being the 
>> noisy season here in the US.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ron N4XD
>> Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: 160 condx

[List Mail]

Not many on at this time of the year, even when there is a little bit of 
propagation most evenings. I’m really looking forward to the end of winter, 
when conditions usually improve. It has just been wet and cold, and wet and 
cold.
73, Luke VK3HJ.

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: David Raymond
Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2021 2:45 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 condx

With daytime heat indices in the 100s it's still very QRN here in the 
midwest.  Fortunately things will begin to improve in a few weeks.

73 . . . Dave, W0FLS

On 8/11/2021 11:28 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:
> Andy, DL8LAS, was right, conditions the last couple days have been quite 
> good. Last night (my time) I was able to work Andy with 100W. Even when condx 
> are quiet that's a pretty tough task. Karel, OK1CF, is also a pretty constant 
> signal from EU.
>
>
>
> In my mornings have worked VK2WF, VK3HJ, ZL1AZ all with pretty good signals.
>
>
> As Andy noted, good to see activity pick up some, even with it being the 
> noisy season here in the US.
>
>
>
> Ron N4XD
> Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: 160 condx

[David Raymond]

With daytime heat indices in the 100s it's still very QRN here in the 
midwest.  Fortunately things will begin to improve in a few weeks.


73 . . . Dave, W0FLS

On 8/11/2021 11:28 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:

Andy, DL8LAS, was right, conditions the last couple days have been quite good. 
Last night (my time) I was able to work Andy with 100W. Even when condx are 
quiet that's a pretty tough task. Karel, OK1CF, is also a pretty constant 
signal from EU.



In my mornings have worked VK2WF, VK3HJ, ZL1AZ all with pretty good signals.


As Andy noted, good to see activity pick up some, even with it being the noisy 
season here in the US.



Ron N4XD
Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: 160 DX

[List Mail]

Topband success, in addition to considerable effort in erecting suitable 
antennas, also considerable personal effort. I’m definitely not a “morning 
person”, but have been getting up at dawn to chase the seasonal path to Europe. 
It’s nice when there are others who make the effort to be on air to make it 
worthwhile. This morning, I put one DL in the log. He had a good signal. There 
was propagation, at least to his part of the world, but only one operator on. 
Better than nothing.
73, Luke VK3HJ

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: Topband: 160 meter 1/8 wave

[Jim Brown]

On 4/1/2021 6:40 PM, List Mail wrote:

An inverted-L should give you some better local station performance, which some 
like to have for Contesting, as well as useful low-angle performance.


This is one of those urban myths with a grain of truth. The greatest 
radiation is from the part of the antenna carrying the greatest current, 
which for the inv-L is at the base. The grain of truth is that if it 
isn't very tall (as a fraction of a quarter-wave), there will be more 
current in more horizontal wire, increasing the high angle radiation.


In general,for ground-mounted vertical with a low feedpoint impedance, 
efficiency is directly related to the ratio of the radiation resistance 
to the effective resistance of the counterpoise, usually radials. And 
radiation resistance is a function of vertical height.


The thing about antennas is that we're all limited by skyhooks, real 
estate, sometimes other constraints like rules of a homeowner's ass'n. I 
have many very tall trees and I can afford to hire climbers to rig 
anything I want, so I have a Tee, about 100 ft.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: 160 meter 1/8 wave

[Wes]

If both are brought to resonance with top loading, there will be a null overhead 
with the hat and some high angle radiation with the L.


The L will actually have a bit of directivity (~2 dB) in the direction away from 
the wire.


The L loading wire will be 80+ feet long, the hat with four wires will need ~55 
feet, both assuming no droop.


Personally, I use an L.

Wes  N7WS

On 4/1/2021 1:09 PM, doug dietz wrote:

Is a 160 meter 18 meter vertical with hat equal or better than an inverted l 
over the same ground plane
Doug. WD8Z

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Topband: 160 meter 1/8 wave

[List Mail]

An inverted-L should give you some better local station performance, which some 
like to have for Contesting, as well as useful low-angle performance.
A vertical antenna, top-loaded or otherwise, should give you better DX 
performance, at the expense of poorer local station performance.
I have both a vertical and a dipole at my station, but rarely use the dipole.
You can use 6 x 20’ top hat (presumably horizontal spokes) as Dave has 
modelled, or sloping top hat wires as a part of the top set of guys will be 
easier to set up. You would probably need 3 x 35’ or so wires. Set the top guy 
points as far out as you can, to make the slope as shallow as possible. If set 
out as far as your vertical as tall, you’ll have about 45 degrees slope. You’ll 
be able to tune the antenna to resonance by adjusting the length and slope of 
the top hat wires. An L-match at the base will give you a nice 50 ohms to match 
the feed line.
I’ve had top-loaded verticals at my station for years, from too-small aluminium 
tubing affairs with too-complex top hat arrangements that were very tricky to 
erect, to an almost full quarterwave vertical tower, with small top-hat wire 
loading.
73, Luke VK3HJ.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: doug dietz
Sent: Friday, 2 April 2021 7:09 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160 meter 1/8 wave

Is a 160 meter 18 meter vertical with hat equal or better than an inverted l 
over the same ground plane
Doug. WD8Z 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Topband: 160 meter 1/8 wave

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 4/1/2021 1:48 PM, Dave Cuthbert wrote:

Hi Doug, for now I will assume you mean an inverted-L with apex at 1/8
wavelength. Let's see what EZNEC shows for a top hat vertical at the
extreme against the inverted-vee. We can refine the model with more input
from you such as take-off-angle, top hat design and ground parameters. From
that a practical loading coil is added either at the bottom or at the top.

1.8MHz
*65' vertical* with top hat sized for a nearly square current distribution
6 x 20' top hat
Loading coil not required, antenna is resonant at 1.8MHz
32 x 130' radials plus 5 ohm GND loss added to try to account for NEC-2
0.005S/13 GND, "average"
Gain at a 10 deg take-off angle =* -2.5 dBi*

1.8MHz
Inverted-V apex at 65' with ends 10' above GND
0.005s/13 GND, "average"
Broadside gain at a 10 deg take-off angle = *-10.5 dBi*

  dave KH6AQ



The original poster asked about an inverted-L and you simulated
an inverted-V.

When doing these simulations, it is extremely important to use
the "Desc Options" menu in EZNEC and select "Vert Horiz" as
opposed to the default which is "total".  Vertical is the "money"
polarization on 160, in most cases.

FWIW, I had to operate in a 160 meter contest once with a 60
foot top loaded vertical.  It had two very long top loading wires
that sloped down to the ground and I pruned them for resonance at
1830.  The bandwidth was much narrower than my usual 90 foot
vertical, which was already fairly narrow (this is actually GOOD). 
Anyway, it worked great in the contest (subjective opinion) although

I couldn't A/B it with the 90 foot vertical.

My feeling was that the 60 ft vertical probably got out nearly
as well as the 90 ft vertical, but the very narrow bandwidth would
have required a suitable antenna tuner for effective on the air
use.  Any 60 ft vertical that does NOT have very narrow BW is probably 
not very efficient at least when it comes to vertical polarization.


73
Rick N6RK
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Re: Topband: 160 meter 1/8 wave

[Dave Cuthbert]

Hi Doug, for now I will assume you mean an inverted-L with apex at 1/8
wavelength. Let's see what EZNEC shows for a top hat vertical at the
extreme against the inverted-vee. We can refine the model with more input
from you such as take-off-angle, top hat design and ground parameters. From
that a practical loading coil is added either at the bottom or at the top.

1.8MHz
*65' vertical* with top hat sized for a nearly square current distribution
6 x 20' top hat
Loading coil not required, antenna is resonant at 1.8MHz
32 x 130' radials plus 5 ohm GND loss added to try to account for NEC-2
0.005S/13 GND, "average"
Gain at a 10 deg take-off angle =* -2.5 dBi*

1.8MHz
Inverted-V apex at 65' with ends 10' above GND
0.005s/13 GND, "average"
Broadside gain at a 10 deg take-off angle = *-10.5 dBi*

 dave KH6AQ



On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:09 AM doug dietz  wrote:

> Is a 160 meter 18 meter vertical with hat equal or better than an inverted
> l over the same ground plane
> Doug. WD8Z
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _
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> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: 160 meter 1/8 wave

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Are the vertical sections of both antennas the same?

What size hat?

What length is the "L"?

Does either antenna have coil loading and, if so, where
is the coil located and what is its "Q"?

The top loaded vertical is likely to have less high angle
radiation.  However, the ground losses and, possibly, coil
losses of one vs. the other will impact which is the more
efficient.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-04-01 4:09 PM, doug dietz wrote:

Is a 160 meter 18 meter vertical with hat equal or better than an inverted l 
over the same ground plane
Doug. WD8Z




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Re: Topband: 160 Receiving Loops source?

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 2/4/2021 11:27 AM, Eric Rosenberg wrote:
With my antenna supports gone and living on a small city lot 
(Washington, DC), I'd like to try an 80/160 loop.


I have some physical limitations that make mechanical skills mediocre at 
best for building one, and am looking for an affordable source for a 
built one.





Thanks & 73,
Eric W3DQ
_



Here is a loop design I published over 11 years ago:

http://www.n6rk.com/loopantennas/NCJ_loop_antenna_N6RK.pdf

This is a loop that is remotely tunable from below 160 meters
to above 75 meters, and it has a loop with a 20 foot perimeter.
This gives you plenty of signal so that no preamp (other than
the one in your radio) is necessary.  There was a group in India
building these a few years back, but I don't know the current status of
that effort. The contact person was Prasad VU2PTT (vu2...@gmail.com).

For marketing reasons, commercially available loops are:

1.  Untuned
2.  Cover 0.5 to 30 MHz
3.  Have a circumference of 10 feet
and
4.  Use a preamp

The need for the preamp drives up the cost considerably.
I purchased a Pixel loop like this to compare it to my design.
It turns out that the signal out of the 10 ft untuned loop is
so low on 160 meters that the sensitivity is limited by the
noise figure of the preamp, unlike my tuned design.

I realize I haven't given you a turnkey answer to your request,
but I at least wanted to give you the lay of the land.

At the 20 acre N6RK QTH, I have moved on from the loop and just
completed a 9 element, 290 foot diameter, circular receiving
array.

BTW, thanks for the DC mult in the recent CQWW160.  You
obviously heard well enough to go coast to coast, but
then, people tell me I have one of the louder signals from this region.

73
Rick N6RK
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Re: Topband: 160 L and radials

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 12/11/2020 6:49 AM, w3...@roadrunner.com wrote:


Bought three acres in the country here in central Ohio, where the
general ground conductivity articles feel we have good midwestern loam
soil. Well, MY soil is more like semi clay but it is agricultural
land. Corn and soy farming in particular.


I frequently see descriptions like the above that seem to
be saying that the suitability of soil for agricultural use
is somehow an indicator of its RF conductivity.  This is not
reliable.  For example, Yolo county California shows a
conductivity of 30 on the FCC map.  The soil is pure clay that
goes down 40 feet.  Except for growing rice, this soil is
fairly useless agriculturally, rated class 4 (the lowest possible
rating for farming).  Even weeds don't grow well.  Of course, YMMV.

73
Rick N6RK
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Re: Topband: 160 last nite and this morning

[Mail 10]

Last night's conditions on the band were quite good. It was quiet this 
end and I could hear many (US) stations calling the contest stations 
here, and I worked a few myself. Unfortunately, I couldn't stick at it 
as I have a very hard couple of days work. Hopefully conditions 
continue, although I am expecting noise to increase as we head towards 
summer. Last week I had a blast, working 42 DX one evening, mostly NA, 
with a number of East Asian stations. Some of the NA stations were not 
QRO and were still good copy here.


73 Luke VK3HJ

On 10/10/2020 11:15 pm, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:

Last nite (Oct 9th) seemed excellent condx to EU. Worked several stations and 
even a couple with just 100W. this morning the OC contest was going so more 
activity than usual. Worked 8 VK and 1 KH6. More in one morning than any other 
time. In fact, more in one morning than in many years!



Since building a W8JI/ W5ZN 8 antenna circle array I've played on 160 through 
our summer (really helps if you can hear stuff!!) and its been very fun. In our 
mornings quite common to hear a couple VK and even ZL. On a couple mornings 
have even worked JA. Now that its getting later in the year I'm seeing/ hearing 
a few more US stations on both in our mornings and evenings so I'd expect 
activity to continue to increase.



Ron

N4XD

Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: 160 activity night

[weave...@usermail.com]

That plus the bandwidth of 160M antennas were probably taken into account in 
the decision to put it at 1.840. Moving the FT8 frequency much higher would 
shut a lot of the CW guys that like both modes.

73,
Bill WE5P

Comfortably Numb

> On Oct 9, 2020, at 19:48, Mail 10  wrote:
> 
> I rarely see CW activity much above 1830 kHz. The only issue I see from time 
> to time is SSB interference to the 1840 kHz FT8 channel.
> 
> VK band is 1800 - 1875 kHz. If a particular mode were moved above 1900 kHz, 
> some here would miss out. We would have to do what JA FT8 ops did until 
> recently and operate split.
> 
> Luke VK3HJ
> 
>> On 10/10/2020 3:19 am, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:
>> I enjoy low band dxing and contesting. And have an above average set up. All 
>> that said, I get on when I want.or not. Last I checked ham radio is 
>> still a hobby not an obligation. Re FT8: My only gripe is its location on 
>> 1840. PLENTY of room above 1900 so it wouldn't interfere with other modes. 
>> 1840 was, I feel, a poor choice.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> N4XD
>> 
>> Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
>> _
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Re: Topband: 160 activity night

[Mail 10]

I rarely see CW activity much above 1830 kHz. The only issue I see from 
time to time is SSB interference to the 1840 kHz FT8 channel.


VK band is 1800 - 1875 kHz. If a particular mode were moved above 1900 
kHz, some here would miss out. We would have to do what JA FT8 ops did 
until recently and operate split.


Luke VK3HJ

On 10/10/2020 3:19 am, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:

I enjoy low band dxing and contesting. And have an above average set up. All 
that said, I get on when I want.or not. Last I checked ham radio is still a 
hobby not an obligation. Re FT8: My only gripe is its location on 1840. PLENTY 
of room above 1900 so it wouldn't interfere with other modes. 1840 was, I feel, 
a poor choice.



Ron

N4XD

Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: 160 activity night

[Henk Remijn PA5KT via Topband]

In Region 1 there is no 160m band above 1900 for most countries.

1840 is a good place, it only takes 2.5kHz of spectrum.

Anyway as there are no cw stations at all most of the 160m band is not 
used most of the time.


I did try to cq on cw some weeks ago when I did have holidays but no 
replies, only RBN spots.

Then when I try cq on ft8 I make contacts.

I am still working and being active in the week is difficult, even if 
working from home, so I focus on the weekend usually in contests.


73 Henk PA5KT

Op 9-10-2020 om 18:19 schreef Ron Spencer via Topband:

I enjoy low band dxing and contesting. And have an above average set up. All 
that said, I get on when I want.or not. Last I checked ham radio is still a 
hobby not an obligation. Re FT8: My only gripe is its location on 1840. PLENTY 
of room above 1900 so it wouldn't interfere with other modes. 1840 was, I feel, 
a poor choice.



Ron

N4XD

Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: [160] No NA Activity

[W7RH]

160m has been open to EU from left coast the last two evenings. last 
night QRN levels from major thunderstorms off east coast diminished and 
I had a brief pipe line to EU Russia.


Propagation from Arizona has been reasonable at sunset and into early 
evening before EU sunrise. After that the great wall goes up with aurora.


In the log: SM5EDX, SM3EVR, PJ4/K5KG, RA3FL, SM4DHF, LA1MFA, OH3XR, 
LY30LY, JA6FFK, HL5IVL, RK4FD, RC3FL, G3PQA, JI1AVY and JA7SPJ. VK6GX 
and VK6LW have both been loud near sunrise. There were half dozen or so 
brave CW types on band last night during ARRL DX SSB contest


By the way if you hear KN4RRQ on the band give him a call! Check out his 
QRZ page. QRP power using 1929 vintage breadboard TX and SoftRock RX.


I agree with Steve VE6WZ there are many new calls on the band as folks 
migrate away from dead HF bands. You new guys are always welcome in my log.


73 Bob, W7RH

--
W7RH DM35qj

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our 
humanity." - Albert Einstein

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Re: Topband: [160] No NA Activity

[Jim Brown]

On 3/6/2020 12:06 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
I generally try to leave my radio listening to 160 FT8 at night when I 
go to bed.  I did decode some VK's last night.  Not much activity the 
last couple of days.


I often do that, especially during our winter months, but also around 
the spring and fall equinox. Most FT8 operators feed their decodes to 
PSKReporter, a very useful site that can display activity on any band, 
for all stations or for a specific station, and for selected time 
periods. It's a great way to study band conditions.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: [160] No NA Activity

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

I generally try to leave my radio listening to 160 FT8 at night when I 
go to bed.  I did decode some VK's last night.  Not much activity the 
last couple of days.


I have nothing for 630.  I just started playing with 60m chasing VP8PJ 
and they were super easy there.   There seem to be many many deaf 
stations on 60m or they just don't want to talk to me LOL!


W0MU

On 3/5/2020 1:22 PM, W0BTU wrote:
I just started following the 630m and 2200m "#KHz" Slack Chat. It 
looks to me like many CW folks have moved there. Some LF hams use CW 
there almost exclusively, although there is a lot of narrowband 
digital there (especially on 2200m).


It was kindly pointed out to me there by N03M and KB5NJD that 630 
meter antennas are not really all that different from 160. And LF is 
kind of a new frontier, similar to what radio was in the early 20th 
century (where if you wanted to get on, you had to build your own 
radios). Having said that, some transverters and SDRs are now 
available. But you'll have to built your own power amplifier.


In a lot of ways, it's like amateur radio was decades ago when the 
majority of hams actually had technical know-how and built their own 
antennas, etc.


This is /not/ to say that anyone here should up and move to LF. But 
when nobody is on 160, why not give a listen there on your Beverages 
or browse these websites?


http://no3m.net/
http://njdtechnologies.net/links/
http://www.n1bug.com/lfmf/

73, Mike
W0BTU

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020, 6:56 AM Roger Kennedy 
mailto:ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk>> 
wrote:



Well I came on for a few hours last night . . .

Conditions were good, as my RBN reports with NA sites were between
20 and 35 dB over the noise.

But I only worked a handful of NA stations !  (there were several
other European and Russian stations on too)

It's a real shame there's so little CW activity . . . this Season
will be over soon !

Roger G3YRO


--
73, Mike
W0BTU
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Re: Topband: 160 m DX CW activity

[uy0zg]

Sorry, my mistake is K4ISV ор. Bud

---
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua

uy0zg писал 2020-02-19 16:36:

Hi

Result of my cq today ( 02:29 - 04:51 utc) - 12 NA stations.
N2KW, KP3MM, K9PG, W1ER, K4OO, K4ISV, KR9U, K5ESW, WB2RZU, WA8OLN, 
W0FLS, K6LZ.


Half of the signals were very weak + qsb.

Apparently, a small power was used.

 had the loudest signal, K4ISV - 579.




73 !

--
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua
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Re: Topband: 160 conditions

[Michael Tope]

Thanks for coming back to me, Tom. The only reason I knew the band was 
open is that I was sitting on 1821.0 listening for S01WS who had been 
spotted there. Apparently he was gone because, Eric NO3M, asked if the 
frequency was in use and then started calling CQ. I was surprised to 
hear HB9CAT come back to him with a good signal. I need HB9 on 160 CW, 
so I decided I would try calling CQ at 1820.2 KHz. HB9CAT never answered 
me, but you and a whole string of other stations in the UK answered, all 
with very good signals. I wish my RX situation was better (I was just 
using the TX antenna). A couple of stations called near the end of the 
opening, but I wasn't able to pull out their their full callsigns.


73, Mike W4EF.

On 12/15/2019 12:54 AM, Tom Boucher wrote:

It's nice to hear the band back in good shape again after a few years. Big
CW signal from W4EF in CA this morning along with ZL3IX, also a string of
JAs/HL earlier this week.

Let's keep the 160 CW activity up!

73,
Tom G3OLB


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Re: Topband: 160 conditions

[Richard McLachlan]

Yes, agree with Tom. I came on late but conditions were excellent. Unusual to 
hear West Coast so strong here. Things are improving.

Richard
G3OQT

> On 15 Dec 2019, at 08:54, Tom Boucher  wrote:
> 
> It's nice to hear the band back in good shape again after a few years. Big
> CW signal from W4EF in CA this morning along with ZL3IX, also a string of
> JAs/HL earlier this week.
> 
> Let's keep the 160 CW activity up!
> 
> 73,
> Tom G3OLB
> _
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Re: Topband: 160 Meters in Thailand

[Victor Goncharsky via Topband]

Ken,
We both have worked you on top band in the contest.
Working split was a brilliant idea.
73/88 Vic US5WE and Helen UR5WA


>Воскресенье,  1 декабря 2019, 10:54 UTC от Ken Claerbout < kenk...@gmail.com >:
>
>Hi Gang - I was fortunate to be part of the HS0ZAR M/2 team for CQWW
>DX CW.  I arrived at the station on Tuesday afternoon, hoping the days
>leading up to the contest a couple of us would be able to hand out
>QSO's on the lowbands.  A lot of work needed to be done in preparation
>for the contest, including cabling of new antennas into the shack.
>Two of those antennas are Waller Flags for receiving.  So between not
>having antennas available and the long hours of preparation, there was
>little time for operating. Maybe next time.
>
>Nevertheless, everything came together beautifully and we had a blast.
>Here's some pictures of the station and the contest operation.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IngAca7VQbQ=youtu.be
>
>73
>Ken K4ZW/HS0ZLD
>_
>Searchable Archives:  http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector


-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 10BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
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Re: Topband: 160 Meters in Thailand

[Hugh Valentine]

Thanks both for effort.

Val

N4RJ

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Saulius Zalnerauskas<mailto:ly5w@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 6:06 AM
To: Ken Claerbout<mailto:kenk...@gmail.com>
Cc: Topband Reflector<mailto:Topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 Meters in Thailand

I was calling you over 100 times both days and diferent time, from 16z till
22z you were audible, sometimes 599, same time lot of Europeans were
calling, but with no luck.
Only CQ Test HS0ZAR UP1 on 1809.5
Used over 700w to fullsize vertical at 41mH.
Heard also E2X doing multipliers, but not find him calling CQ.
73 Sam LY5W

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 12:54 PM Ken Claerbout  wrote:

> Hi Gang - I was fortunate to be part of the HS0ZAR M/2 team for CQWW
> DX CW.  I arrived at the station on Tuesday afternoon, hoping the days
> leading up to the contest a couple of us would be able to hand out
> QSO's on the lowbands.  A lot of work needed to be done in preparation
> for the contest, including cabling of new antennas into the shack.
> Two of those antennas are Waller Flags for receiving.  So between not
> having antennas available and the long hours of preparation, there was
> little time for operating. Maybe next time.
>
> Nevertheless, everything came together beautifully and we had a blast.
> Here's some pictures of the station and the contest operation.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IngAca7VQbQ=youtu.be
>
> 73
> Ken K4ZW/HS0ZLD
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: 160 Meters in Thailand

[Saulius Zalnerauskas]

I was calling you over 100 times both days and diferent time, from 16z till
22z you were audible, sometimes 599, same time lot of Europeans were
calling, but with no luck.
Only CQ Test HS0ZAR UP1 on 1809.5
Used over 700w to fullsize vertical at 41mH.
Heard also E2X doing multipliers, but not find him calling CQ.
73 Sam LY5W

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 12:54 PM Ken Claerbout  wrote:

> Hi Gang - I was fortunate to be part of the HS0ZAR M/2 team for CQWW
> DX CW.  I arrived at the station on Tuesday afternoon, hoping the days
> leading up to the contest a couple of us would be able to hand out
> QSO's on the lowbands.  A lot of work needed to be done in preparation
> for the contest, including cabling of new antennas into the shack.
> Two of those antennas are Waller Flags for receiving.  So between not
> having antennas available and the long hours of preparation, there was
> little time for operating. Maybe next time.
>
> Nevertheless, everything came together beautifully and we had a blast.
> Here's some pictures of the station and the contest operation.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IngAca7VQbQ=youtu.be
>
> 73
> Ken K4ZW/HS0ZLD
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: 160 Meters in Thailand

[Ken Claerbout]

Hi Gang - I was fortunate to be part of the HS0ZAR M/2 team for CQWW
DX CW.  I arrived at the station on Tuesday afternoon, hoping the days
leading up to the contest a couple of us would be able to hand out
QSO's on the lowbands.  A lot of work needed to be done in preparation
for the contest, including cabling of new antennas into the shack.
Two of those antennas are Waller Flags for receiving.  So between not
having antennas available and the long hours of preparation, there was
little time for operating. Maybe next time.

Nevertheless, everything came together beautifully and we had a blast.
Here's some pictures of the station and the contest operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IngAca7VQbQ=youtu.be

73
Ken K4ZW/HS0ZLD
_
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Re: Topband: 160 status this am

[daraymond]

Conditions to Asia this morning from here in Iowa were quite good.  JH1HDT, 
JA0MVW, and JA7BXS were CQing for some time and all had good signals. . 
.true 569-579 occasionally peaking 589.  Kim/HL3IVL was solid 559-569. . 
.the strongest I've heard him this season.  JK1OLT, an all time new call 
sign, called in with a Q5 449 signal.  Alas, nary a peep from VK9CZ while he 
was on CW.  I don't think he had many NA takers (if any) and migrated to 
FT-8.  All in all. . . a good morning.  The evening conditions to EU have 
been generally very good as well.  Sometimes spotty with some areas having 
great prop and others poor, but good openings overall with plenty of CW 
activity.  Things are looking good so far this season.  Let's get on and 
have fun!


73. . . Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message- 
From: Dan

Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 12:25 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160 status this am

Having hooked my inverted L yesterday I woke early (not on purpose) so 
grabbed some coffee and turned on the radio. I could hear JA from Ohio on 
the Hi-Z an hour before my sunrise. Called a few times to no avail. 15 
minutes later put two JAs in the log. Heard peeps of some other Asian stuff 
but no real copy.


Topband could be good this season!

73 Dan W8CAR

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Re: Topband: 160 status this am

[K9FD]

I work 630M also, last nite at 0830 I checked my WSPR log and was copying
JA1PKG,  so I had a good idea that 160 at sunrise would be a good bet.
When I fired up before sunrise I worked H40TT barefoot while the amp was
warming up,  did not hear much on CW and I noticed some big signals up
the band on FT-8,   sure enough the band was wide open and full of signals,
from 4s7AB to VR2, all over Asia,  tons of Russian UA9, UN7 etc etc and good
signals from SM, LA, DL, LX, S58 etc.   Worked over 20 stations in short 
order.

sounded like the 2008 era when I could work 40 or 50 EU easy on the sunrise
path.  Its looking good,  I saw spotted 5H but was late arriving and 
heard nothing,

that would be one of my last two zones from this QTH.
Sounding great so far, should improve as the season progresses,
73 Merv K9FD   Molokai Island Hawaii

Having hooked my inverted L yesterday I woke early (not on purpose) so grabbed 
some coffee and turned on the radio. I could hear JA from Ohio on the Hi-Z an 
hour before my sunrise. Called a few times to no avail. 15 minutes later put 
two JAs in the log. Heard peeps of some other Asian stuff but no real copy.

Topband could be good this season!

73 Dan W8CAR

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Re: Topband: 160 Meters in Thailand

[Dave Sharred via Topband]

That's useful to know Frank, we often hear them in the bottom 10khz, where we 
can't operateI'll be on as MD4K,  all bands, but will cover 160 at times too, 
Imgot out pretty well there in the SSB leg73 Dave G3NKC / MD4K Sent from 
Samsung tablet

 Original message 
From: donov...@starpower.net 
Date: 15/11/2019  17:30  (GMT+00:00) 
To: topband  
Subject: Topband: 160 Meters in Thailand 

According to E21EIC, hams in Thailand now have the full 1800-2000 KHz 
assignment. Look for HS0ZAR before and their multi-multi operation in the CQWW 
CW DX contest. 73 Frank W3LPL _Searchable Archives: 
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Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking

[Tim Shoppa]

The CQ Magazine DX Marathon judge seems to have some superb smarts as to
what validates a plausible contact. I know for sure he caught it when due
to a typo of mine, I busted a callsign from a perfectly common entity (G =
England) on my 80M DX Marathon application and he even knew the correct
callsign that I had worked.

In addition I strongly suspect that for top-of-category in DX Marathon that
he does further cross-checks especially when public logs are available for
search (the case for most DXpeditions but not the case for random hams). I
suspect he has some automation to help him with these checks but he's a
super smart guy who is very familiar with both common and rare callsigns
from all over the world. In fact the DX Marathon website lists some
"commonly busted callsigns" and "known pirate callsigns" with specific
dates and times and this is updated throughout the year - an immensely
valuable resource for any DX'er.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect DXCC Card Checkers to apply this
level of experience, smarts, cross-checks, or scrutiny to cards they are
checking. It requires experience and access to diverse resources (many
online that I know about but undoubtedly some offline and maybe paper
especially for anything more than a couple years old). It would be nice if
someone from HQ could help out with the scrutiny.

Tim N3QE

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 12:44 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:

>
> I attained 160 meter DXCC around 5 years ago.
> I don't feel that it qualifies me to check
> QSL's.  Even though I did it from the west
> coast :-)  I can see where say 25 years ago,
> 160 meter DXCC really meant something.  Now
> that we have entered the FT8 era, digital
> DXCC has become far easier, and falls into the
> category of "that and $5 will get you a latte"
> as the saying goes.
>
> Clearly, it is time to retire this anachronism.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
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Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

I attained 160 meter DXCC around 5 years ago.
I don't feel that it qualifies me to check
QSL's.  Even though I did it from the west
coast :-)  I can see where say 25 years ago,
160 meter DXCC really meant something.  Now
that we have entered the FT8 era, digital
DXCC has become far easier, and falls into the
category of "that and $5 will get you a latte"
as the saying goes.

Clearly, it is time to retire this anachronism.

Rick N6RK

_
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Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking

[Andreas Junge]

Why not publish the current rule regarding 160M field checking and remove the 
confusion:

http://www.arrl.org/dxcc-field-checkin <http://www.arrl.org/dxcc-field-checkin>


1) Entities Eligible for Field Checking:

 
a) With an exception for 160 Meters, cards for all current and deleted entities 
dating back to November 15, 1945 can be checked. Cards for 160 Meters can only 
be checked by Card Checkers who currently hold an active 160 Meter DXCC, ARRL 
Headquarters staff who have been authorized by the Manager of the Radiosport 
Department, or existing Card Checkers who agree to allow their work to be 
vetted by the Radiosport Department. The Manager of the Radiosport Department 
shall make a special reporting form 
<http://www.arrl.org/files/file/DXCC/Convention%20Form.pdf> available for this 
purpose. 160 Meter Card Checkers can be found on the complete list of DXCC 160 
Card Checkers.

 
So, there still is a 160M DXCC requirement and it CAN be waived by the manager 
of the Radio Sport Department OR the card checker has to submit an additional 
form requesting his/her work to be  checked by the Radio Sport Department when 
the paperwork gets in.

The form is here:

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/DXCC/Convention%20Form.pdf 
<http://www.arrl.org/files/file/DXCC/Convention%20Form.pdf>

As for not having coverage in a certain area - volunteer to be a checker!  

Yes, I am a card checker, no I don't have my 160M DXCC yet, but I am up to #87 
:-) 

And Wayne, I am the guy who’s house is 2 down from where you made your first 
ever QSO when you were a kid :-)

73, Andreas, N6NU

> On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:39 AM, n...@bresnan.net wrote:
> 
> See "Field Checking of QSL Cards, 1) a)
> It seems the rule was "unliberalized" to some extent . . . 
> 
> -- N7NG/7
> 
>   -From: "n4cc" 
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday October 11 2019 9:13:10AM
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking
> 
> Any card checker can check 160 meter cards now. The requirement for
> the card checker to have 160 meter DXCC was dropped. 73, Greg- N4CC
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>  Original message From: Herbert Schoenbohm  Date:
> 10/11/19 9:00 AM (GMT-07:00) To: n...@windstream.net Cc:
> dx-ch...@reflector.arrl.org, TopBand List  Subject: Re: Topband: 160
> meter QSL card checking This is frustrating indeed as there are no
> DXCC card checkers in the USVI with 160-meter DXCC which the ARRL
> requires. They refuse to explain why. OK, so I will send the cards to
> them. But wait, this requires an online application. But when I fill
> it out and put in my zip code and location the "State" box does not
> provide for the U.S. Virgin Islands for the card return information.
> So when I go to the foreign section there is no selection for the U.S.
> Virgin Islands. Does anyone have any idea oon what I should do? I am a
> an ARRL member for over 60 years but continue to be given rough
> treatment by HQ.Herb, KV4FZOn Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 11:50 AM  wrote: 
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [1] - Topband
> Reflector
> 
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [2] - Topband
> Reflector
> 
> 
> Links:
> --
> [1] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> [2] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> _
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Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking

[n7ng]

See "Field Checking of QSL Cards, 1) a)
It seems the rule was "unliberalized" to some extent . . . 

-- N7NG/7

-From: "n4cc" 
To: topband@contesting.com
Cc: 
Sent: Friday October 11 2019 9:13:10AM
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking

 Any card checker can check 160 meter cards now. The requirement for
the card checker to have 160 meter DXCC was dropped. 73, Greg- N4CC
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
  Original message From: Herbert Schoenbohm  Date:
10/11/19 9:00 AM (GMT-07:00) To: n...@windstream.net Cc:
dx-ch...@reflector.arrl.org, TopBand List  Subject: Re: Topband: 160
meter QSL card checking This is frustrating indeed as there are no
DXCC card checkers in the USVI with 160-meter DXCC which the ARRL
requires. They refuse to explain why. OK, so I will send the cards to
them. But wait, this requires an online application. But when I fill
it out and put in my zip code and location the "State" box does not
provide for the U.S. Virgin Islands for the card return information.
So when I go to the foreign section there is no selection for the U.S.
Virgin Islands. Does anyone have any idea oon what I should do? I am a
an ARRL member for over 60 years but continue to be given rough
treatment by HQ.Herb, KV4FZOn Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 11:50 AM  wrote: 
 _
 Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [1] - Topband
Reflector

 _
 Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [2] - Topband
Reflector
 

Links:
--
[1] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[2] http://www.contesting.com/_topband

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Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking

[n4cc]

Any card checker can check 160 meter cards now.  The requirement for the card 
checker to have 160 meter DXCC was dropped.  73, Greg- N4CC Sent from my 
Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Herbert Schoenbohm 
 Date: 10/11/19  9:00 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: 
n...@windstream.net Cc: dx-ch...@reflector.arrl.org, TopBand List 
 Subject: Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking This 
is frustrating indeed as there are no DXCC card checkers in the USVI with 
160-meter DXCC which the ARRL requires.  They refuse to explain why.  OK, so I 
will send the cards to them.  But wait, this requires an online application. 
But when I fill it out and put in my zip code and location the "State" box does 
not provide for the U.S. Virgin Islands for the card return information.  So 
when I go to the foreign section there is no selection for the U.S. Virgin 
Islands.  Does anyone have any idea oon what I should do?  I am a an ARRL 
member for over 60 years but continue to be given rough treatment by HQ.Herb, 
KV4FZOn Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 11:50 AM  wrote: 
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Re: Topband: 160 meter QSL card checking

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

This is frustrating indeed as there are no DXCC card checkers in the USVI
with 160-meter DXCC which the ARRL requires.  They refuse to explain why.
OK, so I will send the cards to them.  But wait, this requires an online
application. But when I fill it out and put in my zip code and location the
"State" box does not provide for the U.S. Virgin Islands for the card
return information.  So when I go to the foreign section there is no
selection for the U.S. Virgin Islands.  Does anyone have any idea oon what
I should do?  I am a an ARRL member for over 60 years but continue to be
given rough treatment by HQ.

Herb, KV4FZ

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 11:50 AM  wrote:

>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: 160 is alive!

[Ed Sawyer]

Tom.  I had the same thing going here but thankfully the project was finished a 
couple of weeks ago and this weekend is my “get it back to where it was” 
weekend.  But still, I had one of my 2 T top verticals available and just was 
not on this morning.  Thanks to Tree’s nudge, I am not going to do that again!

 

Ed  N1UR

 

From: Thomas Hoyer [mailto:thoy...@verizon.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 3:30 PM
To: sawye...@earthlink.net; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 is alive!

 

Figures Only need a couple more countries for DXCC and my TB antenna is 
down for the next couple months due to a construction project going on in the 
yard. The contractor didn't want to "work around" the guy lines on the vertical 
- which really were in his way - so I took the vertical down temporarily. 

 

Of course this construction project was supposed to be done in June and they 
just got started two weeks ago.

 

Hopefully I'll be back on by mid December and there will be some good DX left 
over (CW only for me). 

 

Need to run a bunch of new radials as the excavation has torn up about 25% of 
them.

 

Tom

W3TA

 





-Original Message-
From: Ed Sawyer 
To: topband 
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2019 1:13 pm
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 is alive!

Yes it is.  And all on CW.  I am sorry I was not able to be on this morning.

 

 

 

73

 

 

 

Ed  N1UR

 

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Re: Topband: 160 is alive!

[Thomas Hoyer via Topband]

Figures Only need a couple more countries for DXCC and my TB antenna is 
down for the next couple months due to a construction project going on in the 
yard. The contractor didn't want to "work around" the guy lines on the vertical 
- which really were in his way - so I took the vertical down temporarily.
Of course this construction project was supposed to be done in June and they 
just got started two weeks ago.
Hopefully I'll be back on by mid December and there will be some good DX left 
over (CW only for me). 
Need to run a bunch of new radials as the excavation has torn up about 25% of 
them.
TomW3TA



-Original Message-
From: Ed Sawyer 
To: topband 
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2019 1:13 pm
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 is alive!

Yes it is.  And all on CW.  I am sorry I was not able to be on this morning.

 

73

 

Ed  N1UR

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Re: Topband: 160 is alive!

[Ed Sawyer]

Yes it is.  And all on CW.  I am sorry I was not able to be on this morning.

 

73

 

Ed  N1UR

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Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

[GEORGE WALLNER]

During both the ARRL 160 or the CQWW 160 CW contests from C6AGU (FL14tv, a 
very quiet location) about 250 miles east of FL, I hear and work stations 
during the day well into the continental US: sometimes as far as 1200 miles 
away (W2). Most of the contact take place before 11 AM local time, but some 
propagation does persist until midday and probably beyond that.

73,
George,
AA7JV/C6AGU


On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 08:14:49 -0500
 K4SAV  wrote:
A few years back guys on this forum decided to see what could be worked at noon time.  There were a few stations on at that time and I worked stations up to 600 miles. 
That will vary with band conditions.  It doesn't work well if there are no stations on the band.


You can observe the same thing during a major contest when there are stations 
working the band during the day (usually multi-op class stations).

Jerry, K4SAV
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Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

[Brian Campbell]

Sorry, the second QSO was at 1726z not 1717z.

From: Topband  on behalf of Brian Campbell 

Sent: September 17, 2019 3:38:35 PM
To: K4SAV ; topband@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

Hi Jerry and group,

I was one of those stations Jerry. I worked you at 1712z and 1717z on 
2008-01-05. I was running 100 watts and the distance was 1200km. We gave each 
other 549 reports IIRC ( from my log ).

I was on for about 7 days at or just after local noon here doing tests and I 
worked about 14 stations ranging from 200 to 1200 km out.

However my best "DX" was W8JI at 1270 km who gave me a 579 at 100 watts. I then 
went to 5 watts and he gave me a 479(!) But then again it was W8JI...

So yes there IS prop on 160 even at high noon - at least out to 1000km or so. 
But like you said it helps if people are QRV. I self spotted at the time to let 
everyone know which definitely helped.

73,
Brian
VE3MGY




From: Topband  on behalf of K4SAV 

Sent: September 17, 2019 9:14:49 AM
To: topband@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

A few years back guys on this forum decided to see what could be worked
at noon time.  There were a few stations on at that time and I worked
stations up to 600 miles.  That will vary with band conditions.  It
doesn't work well if there are no stations on the band.

You can observe the same thing during a major contest when there are
stations working the band during the day (usually multi-op class stations).

Jerry, K4SAV
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Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

[Brian Campbell]

Hi Jerry and group,

I was one of those stations Jerry. I worked you at 1712z and 1717z on 
2008-01-05. I was running 100 watts and the distance was 1200km. We gave each 
other 549 reports IIRC ( from my log ).

I was on for about 7 days at or just after local noon here doing tests and I 
worked about 14 stations ranging from 200 to 1200 km out.

However my best "DX" was W8JI at 1270 km who gave me a 579 at 100 watts. I then 
went to 5 watts and he gave me a 479(!) But then again it was W8JI...

So yes there IS prop on 160 even at high noon - at least out to 1000km or so. 
But like you said it helps if people are QRV. I self spotted at the time to let 
everyone know which definitely helped.

73,
Brian
VE3MGY




From: Topband  on behalf of K4SAV 

Sent: September 17, 2019 9:14:49 AM
To: topband@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

A few years back guys on this forum decided to see what could be worked
at noon time.  There were a few stations on at that time and I worked
stations up to 600 miles.  That will vary with band conditions.  It
doesn't work well if there are no stations on the band.

You can observe the same thing during a major contest when there are
stations working the band during the day (usually multi-op class stations).

Jerry, K4SAV
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Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

[Tree]

There was indeed a plaque for the longest distance - within an hour of high
noon.

I believe it was a QSO between Oregon and Arizona - a pretty good distance.

Tree

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Tim Shoppa  wrote:

> There's a "max distance in pure daylight" Stew Perry award at least some
> years?
>
> At start of a 160M contest (5PM local time, shortly before my sunset) I
> have no problem making QSO's into Indiana and Illinois (600-700 miles).
>
> I would be reluctant to call this NVIS. The stations doing 500+ miles in
> broad daylight on 160 are using decent antenna systems, NOT using crappy
> NVIS antennas.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:41 AM Dan Edward Dba East edwards <
> dan.n.edwa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >  true enough. i have heard K0RF at high noon, here in north east texas
> 73,
> > w5xz
> >
> > On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, 08:14:58 AM CDT, K4SAV <
> > radi...@charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >  A few years back guys on this forum decided to see what could be worked
> > at noon time.  There were a few stations on at that time and I worked
> > stations up to 600 miles.  That will vary with band conditions.  It
> > doesn't work well if there are no stations on the band.
> >
> > You can observe the same thing during a major contest when there are
> > stations working the band during the day (usually multi-op class
> stations).
> >
> > Jerry, K4SAV
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
> >
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
> >
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

[Tim Shoppa]

There's a "max distance in pure daylight" Stew Perry award at least some
years?

At start of a 160M contest (5PM local time, shortly before my sunset) I
have no problem making QSO's into Indiana and Illinois (600-700 miles).

I would be reluctant to call this NVIS. The stations doing 500+ miles in
broad daylight on 160 are using decent antenna systems, NOT using crappy
NVIS antennas.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:41 AM Dan Edward Dba East edwards <
dan.n.edwa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>  true enough. i have heard K0RF at high noon, here in north east texas 73,
> w5xz
>
> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, 08:14:58 AM CDT, K4SAV <
> radi...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>  A few years back guys on this forum decided to see what could be worked
> at noon time.  There were a few stations on at that time and I worked
> stations up to 600 miles.  That will vary with band conditions.  It
> doesn't work well if there are no stations on the band.
>
> You can observe the same thing during a major contest when there are
> stations working the band during the day (usually multi-op class stations).
>
> Jerry, K4SAV
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
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> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

[Dan Edward Dba East edwards]

 true enough. i have heard K0RF at high noon, here in north east texas 73, w5xz

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, 08:14:58 AM CDT, K4SAV 
 wrote:  
 
 A few years back guys on this forum decided to see what could be worked 
at noon time.  There were a few stations on at that time and I worked 
stations up to 600 miles.  That will vary with band conditions.  It 
doesn't work well if there are no stations on the band.

You can observe the same thing during a major contest when there are 
stations working the band during the day (usually multi-op class stations).

Jerry, K4SAV
_
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Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

[K4SAV]

A few years back guys on this forum decided to see what could be worked 
at noon time.  There were a few stations on at that time and I worked 
stations up to 600 miles.  That will vary with band conditions.  It 
doesn't work well if there are no stations on the band.


You can observe the same thing during a major contest when there are 
stations working the band during the day (usually multi-op class stations).


Jerry, K4SAV
_
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Re: Topband: 160 skip distance

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 9/16/2019 5:36 PM, Larry wrote:

160 is absolutely capable of NVIS;  I've tested it and 160 NVIS works on
sideband with between 10 and 20 watts, or about 2.5 watts CW, so having
a groundwave signal nulled by NVIS is possible.

Larry W8ANT


You should be able to get rid of the NVIS wave by simply using a
vertical as the receive antenna.  I'm surprised no one mentioned
this already.

Rick N6RK
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Re: Topband: 160 meter antenna possibilities

[GEORGE WALLNER]

Byron,
I would go with the T (and a good radial field).
George,
AA7JV/C6AGU

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:14:13 + (UTC)
 Byron Tatum  wrote:

Hello-    I hope I do not intrude too much here for a little advice about 160 meter antenna choices. I 
am getting settled in to my new QTH and am in process of getting antenna systems put up. I have a 30' x 
50' metal shop building, the 50' length running east/west, sitting on about 4 acres behind the house 
available for antennas. There is a 130' tower off NW corner of building about 45' out, and a 140' tower 
sitting 20' out away the south wall of building, centered on the buildings 50' wall. The towers are 
about 110' apart. I have 5 total runs of 1-5/8" heliax plus other rotor, control and smaller 
feedlines all coming into the building from these two towers; the cables are entering building about 13' 
above ground. I operate VHF/UHF a lot, but want a decent 160 meter antenna. The 2 towers will have 
mostly 144, 222, 432, 1296 yagis plus 40 meter rotary dipole. The tower guy wires are broken up with 
insulators in 27' segments. Eventually I plan to put up a 160 meter vertical out in the open area but 
for right now I am looking for suggestions on what I can hang off of one of the towers. I have 
considered an inverted-V as I can fan the legs out pretty far/high to get a decent apex angle. I have 
considered an inverted-L but really do not want to have the several radials in the way (if I go above 
ground) or to do a more extensive ground radial system around building/towers areas. I have considered a 
compressed delta loop, fed 1/4 wave down from apex for vertical polarization. Of course, shunt feeding a 
tower is out of consideration due to feedlines coming off of towers about 20' up. I was considering 
running a heavy dacron cord from the top of one of the towers, making a span out of about 250' out to a 
support around 40'-50' tall. About 140' out I would have the top loading wire for a "T" 
vertical antenna. The top loading wire would be slanted but I believe that is not too bad a compromise. 
The vertical would be in the clear and I could put in a really good radial system. I believe I could get 
about 80' height of vertical to "T" wire center. Possibly this could be a more permanent 160 
meter transmitting vertical. Just open for suggestions.Thanks, Byron W5FH     
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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[john]

Where in the Caribbean?  Conditions and antenna requirements are much  
different depending where you go. As you go south it becomes more  
noisy and of course you're further from the target areas.  One  
portable antenna that can work well is a kite. I have have tried them  
several times off the beach but had trouble keeping them in the air  
while operating.


John KK9A


pat n8vw wrote:

Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December.  
Unless I find a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and  
operate qrp or lp. Looking for ideas on an easy to setup small  
vertical antenna to bring.


N8vw

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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[George Taft via Topband]

 Etal on 160

And I can attest to his 160 sigs from Guam as I have nine Qs with Gus over his 
2 year QRV on Topband. Inv L up as high as you can with a few short radials 
will do the trick - especially from the Caribbean (16 X 30' ground radials).

And Mike is correct that an rx antenna will make the diff on hearing. Consider 
a "flag or pennant" small rx antenna

GL

73 George W8UVZ On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 6:55:29 PM EDT, Julius Gostel 
via Topband  wrote:  
 
  My antenna at KH2/K4SXT was 126' of wire 40' vertical up a coconut tree - 
then the rest horizontal to another coconut tree. Two full 120' radials on the 
ground. No separate receive antenna. Pretty simple and it worked pretty well. 
Did I hear everyone, probably not, but I did work some pretty good stuff and 
way over 100 DXCC in less than 2 years. Same piece of wire for A92ZE. but 70' 
vertical and two gull wing elevated radials worked better. Used a 350' 
horseshoe non-terminated beverage (on top of my compound wall @ 8'). Both 
worked Real well. Again more than 100 DXCC in about 3 years. 
If you can get 126-130' of wire in the air, it will work.

Have a great trip - I'll look for you,

Gus K4SXT ex 9V1ZE, /KH2, KG4ZE, A92ZE, /DU3


    On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 5:23:32 PM EDT, W0MU Mike Fatchett 
 wrote:  
 
 and then you need to be able to hear the people calling so you will want 
some kind of receiving antenna.

On 8/7/2019 11:13 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:
> Hi Pat,
>
>  
>
> Your #1 friend will be 127' of vertical(ish) wire (ie: inverted L) and a few
> ground radial wires or better still 3-4 raised radials and a tall palm tree,
> otherwise I am afraid you'll be sorely disappointed in any kind of short
> compromise (loaded) antenna with summer (QRN) condx and QRP and/or LP (K2 is
> 15w, correct?).
>
>  
>
> There's no getting around physics and you're going to be very weak and a
> full sized antenna is going to be your best bet to being heard.
>
>  
>
> GL
>
>  
>
> Mike VE9AA
>
>  
>
> Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December. Unless I
> find
>
> a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp.
> Looking
>
> for ideas on an easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring.
>
>  
>
> N8vw
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>  
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
  
_
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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 8/7/2019 10:13 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:


Your #1 friend will be 127' of vertical(ish) wire (ie: inverted L) and a few
ground radial wires or better still 3-4 raised radials and a tall palm tree,


The inverted L seems appealing because:

1.  You can tune it to resonance by adjusting the wire length
(no loading coil needed).

2.  It typically is a good match to 50 ohms so no matching
network needed.

3.  The high drive impedance ~50 ohm makes it seem like there won't
be much ground loss.

It is easy to build and will work ... to some extent.

Unfortunately, the reality is that the increased drive resistance
represents useless horizontally polarized signal power.  So the
efficiency in terms of vertical polarized radiated power isn't
all that great.

You will get out better with a T top loaded vertical or a vertical
with "umbrella" wires.  You will have to bring along a tapped base
coil to do tuning/matching.

Rick N6RK
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[GEORGE WALLNER]

Pat,
There is one thing that could make a "portable" antenna and QRP work on 160 
meters: Salt water! If you can make the antenna stand over and grounded to 
the water, or right on the water's edge with the "radials" in the water, you 
could get out with a 20' fiberglass pole and a (good) antenna tuner. There 
is plenty of salt water in the Caribbean, but you must be right over it! Its 
is not going to be gang-busters, but...


GL and 73,
George,
AA7JV/C6AGU


On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 07:59:34 -0400
 pat  wrote:
Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December. Unless I find a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp. Looking for ideas on an easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring. 


N8vw
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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[Gary K9GS]

If you can get the antenna over or near  saltwater it will make a huge 
difference. 73,Gary K9GS
 Original message From: Wes  Date: 
8/7/19  5:09 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: 
160 portable vertical He will probably hear as well as he's heard using QRP.I 
still use the TX inverted-L on receive and think that I have general parity 
between hearing and being heard running only 500W (7-10 dB below my 
neighbors).Wes  N7WSOn 8/7/2019 2:02 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:> and then 
you need to be able to hear the people calling so you will want some > kind of 
receiving antenna.>> On 8/7/2019 11:13 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:>> Hi 
Pat,>>>>>> Your #1 friend will be 127' of vertical(ish) wire (ie: inverted L) 
and a few>> ground radial wires or better still 3-4 raised radials and a tall 
palm tree,>> otherwise I am afraid you'll be sorely disappointed in any kind of 
short>> compromise (loaded) antenna with summer (QRN) condx and QRP and/or LP 
(K2 is>> 15w, correct?).>>>>>> There's no getting around physics and you're 
going to be very weak and a>> full sized antenna is going to be your best bet 
to being heard.>>>>>> GL>>>>>> Mike VE9AA>>>>>> Planning on going to some 
island in the Caribbean this December. Unless I>> find>>>> a friendly ham, will 
bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp.>> Looking>>>> for ideas on an 
easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring.>>>>>> N8vw>>>>>>>> Mike, Coreen 
& Corey>>>> Keswick Ridge, NB>>>>>> _>> Searchable Archives: 
http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector>> _> 
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
Reflector>_Searchable Archives: 
http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[Artek Manuals]

PaT

What Mike says is only partially true about receiving antennas . 
Ideal yes . but not necessary...especially for a casual family 
vacation DXepedition and I think Mike might have missed the part where 
you said in DECEMBER, a quieter winter month . I worked well over 100 
countries with Inverted L's and no receiving antennas for years. This 
year alone I have worked 21 countries and 47 states so far this SUMMER 
with an inverted L and no receiving antenna ( over half of those on CW 
for you who like to trash FT8) . If you were going to do a contest and 
try to be highly competitive then a receiving antenna would be a good 
idea to be sure ...Maybe a BOG on the beach 8^). Your biggest challenge 
will be being heard at all, running QRP or low power... There are a few 
died in the wool low power guys on here who will disagree with me but 
160 is a big amp band IMO more so than any other.


Dave
NR1DX


On 8/7/2019 5:02 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
and then you need to be able to hear the people calling so you will 
want some kind of receiving antenna.


On 8/7/2019 11:13 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:

Hi Pat,


Your #1 friend will be 127' of vertical(ish) wire (ie: inverted L) 
and a few
ground radial wires or better still 3-4 raised radials and a tall 
palm tree,

otherwise I am afraid you'll be sorely disappointed in any kind of short
compromise (loaded) antenna with summer (QRN) condx and QRP and/or LP 
(K2 is

15w, correct?).


There's no getting around physics and you're going to be very weak and a
full sized antenna is going to be your best bet to being heard.


GL


Mike VE9AA


Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December. 
Unless I

find

a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp.
Looking

for ideas on an easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring.


N8vw



Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB


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Reflector


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Reflector




--
Dave
manu...@artekmanuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[Wes]

He will probably hear as well as he's heard using QRP.

I still use the TX inverted-L on receive and think that I have general parity 
between hearing and being heard running only 500W (7-10 dB below my neighbors).


Wes  N7WS

On 8/7/2019 2:02 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
and then you need to be able to hear the people calling so you will want some 
kind of receiving antenna.


On 8/7/2019 11:13 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:

Hi Pat,


Your #1 friend will be 127' of vertical(ish) wire (ie: inverted L) and a few
ground radial wires or better still 3-4 raised radials and a tall palm tree,
otherwise I am afraid you'll be sorely disappointed in any kind of short
compromise (loaded) antenna with summer (QRN) condx and QRP and/or LP (K2 is
15w, correct?).


There's no getting around physics and you're going to be very weak and a
full sized antenna is going to be your best bet to being heard.


GL


Mike VE9AA


Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December. Unless I
find

a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp.
Looking

for ideas on an easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring.


N8vw



Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB


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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[Julius Gostel via Topband]

 My antenna at KH2/K4SXT was 126' of wire 40' vertical up a coconut tree - then 
the rest horizontal to another coconut tree. Two full 120' radials on the 
ground. No separate receive antenna. Pretty simple and it worked pretty well. 
Did I hear everyone, probably not, but I did work some pretty good stuff and 
way over 100 DXCC in less than 2 years. Same piece of wire for A92ZE. but 70' 
vertical and two gull wing elevated radials worked better. Used a 350' 
horseshoe non-terminated beverage (on top of my compound wall @ 8'). Both 
worked Real well. Again more than 100 DXCC in about 3 years. 
If you can get 126-130' of wire in the air, it will work.

Have a great trip - I'll look for you,

Gus K4SXT ex 9V1ZE, /KH2, KG4ZE, A92ZE, /DU3


 On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 5:23:32 PM EDT, W0MU Mike Fatchett 
 wrote:  
 
 and then you need to be able to hear the people calling so you will want 
some kind of receiving antenna.

On 8/7/2019 11:13 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:
> Hi Pat,
>
>  
>
> Your #1 friend will be 127' of vertical(ish) wire (ie: inverted L) and a few
> ground radial wires or better still 3-4 raised radials and a tall palm tree,
> otherwise I am afraid you'll be sorely disappointed in any kind of short
> compromise (loaded) antenna with summer (QRN) condx and QRP and/or LP (K2 is
> 15w, correct?).
>
>  
>
> There's no getting around physics and you're going to be very weak and a
> full sized antenna is going to be your best bet to being heard.
>
>  
>
> GL
>
>  
>
> Mike VE9AA
>
>  
>
> Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December. Unless I
> find
>
> a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp.
> Looking
>
> for ideas on an easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring.
>
>  
>
> N8vw
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>  
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

_
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_
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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

and then you need to be able to hear the people calling so you will want 
some kind of receiving antenna.


On 8/7/2019 11:13 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:

Hi Pat,

  


Your #1 friend will be 127' of vertical(ish) wire (ie: inverted L) and a few
ground radial wires or better still 3-4 raised radials and a tall palm tree,
otherwise I am afraid you'll be sorely disappointed in any kind of short
compromise (loaded) antenna with summer (QRN) condx and QRP and/or LP (K2 is
15w, correct?).

  


There's no getting around physics and you're going to be very weak and a
full sized antenna is going to be your best bet to being heard.

  


GL

  


Mike VE9AA

  


Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December. Unless I
find

a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp.
Looking

for ideas on an easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring.

  


N8vw

  

  


Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

  


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_
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Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical

[Mike Smith VE9AA]

Hi Pat, 

 

Your #1 friend will be 127' of vertical(ish) wire (ie: inverted L) and a few
ground radial wires or better still 3-4 raised radials and a tall palm tree,
otherwise I am afraid you'll be sorely disappointed in any kind of short
compromise (loaded) antenna with summer (QRN) condx and QRP and/or LP (K2 is
15w, correct?).

 

There's no getting around physics and you're going to be very weak and a
full sized antenna is going to be your best bet to being heard.

 

GL

 

Mike VE9AA

 

Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December. Unless I
find 

a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp.
Looking 

for ideas on an easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring. 

 

N8vw

 

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................

[Michael Walker]

OMG...

No one is mandating that you use FT8.  If you don't like it, don't use it.
End of Story.

What is the big deal?

This is sounding like your mother telling you to eat all your Grits before
you leave the table.

Mike va3mw




On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:12 PM dj...@t-online.de  wrote:

>
> Now its getting really silly
>
>
> -Original-Nachricht-----
> Betreff: Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that
> will kill the hobby..
> Datum: 2019-08-06T21:24:47+0200
> Von: "Lee. KX4TT via Topband" 
> An: "topband@contesting.com" 
>
> OK - I think I've got a good start on the list..who
> knew
> Joe Taylor was the Antichrist??
>
>
> Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular order
>
> Spark
> CW
> AM
> SSB
> FM
> RTTY
> Packet
> Amtor
> Pactor
> Winlink
> PSK31
> PSK63
> MSFK8
> MSFK16
> M-RTTY
> EME
> Computers
> DXpeditions
> Contesters
> Holiday DXpeditions
> Nets
> OQRS
> PayPal
> Ebay
> Ragchewers
> Not enough computers
> Windows
> Linux
> Android
> MacOS
> Lowband Operators
> VHF operators
> Satellite Operators
> Microwave Operators
> Parks on the Air
> Islands on the Air
> Summits on the Air
> DXCC
> WAS
> VUCC
> WAZ
> ARRL
> CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list)
> 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any
> pushback)...
> Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to.
> Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk
> to
> K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn Baxter) is
> SK, but where's the fun in that??
> FCC
> Appliance Operators
> CB guys
> QRP
> QRO
> Using Paddles
> Using a straight Key
> Using A Bug
> Using A Bug as a Straight Key
> Using a Keyer
> QRM
> QRN
> DQRM - That one we should keep on the list
> Kenwood
> Yaesu
> Icom
> Elecraft
> Tower Rules
> JT65
> JT9
> FT8
> FT4
> K1JT
>
>
> Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but it's a
> start!!
>
>
> 73 de Lee KX4TT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
> 
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................

[dj...@t-online.de]

Now its getting really silly


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will 
kill the hobby..
Datum: 2019-08-06T21:24:47+0200
Von: "Lee. KX4TT via Topband" 
An: "topband@contesting.com" 

OK - I think I've got a good start on the list..who knew
Joe Taylor was the Antichrist?? 


Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular order

Spark
CW
AM
SSB
FM
RTTY
Packet
Amtor
Pactor
Winlink
PSK31
PSK63
MSFK8
MSFK16
M-RTTY
EME
Computers
DXpeditions
Contesters
Holiday DXpeditions
Nets
OQRS
PayPal
Ebay
Ragchewers
Not enough computers
Windows
Linux
Android
MacOS
Lowband Operators
VHF operators
Satellite Operators
Microwave Operators
Parks on the Air
Islands on the Air
Summits on the Air
DXCC
WAS
VUCC
WAZ
ARRL
CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list)
73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any
pushback)...
Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to.
Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk
to
K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn Baxter) is
SK, but where's the fun in that??
FCC
Appliance Operators
CB guys
QRP 
QRO
Using Paddles
Using a straight Key
Using A Bug
Using A Bug as a Straight Key
Using a Keyer
QRM
QRN
DQRM - That one we should keep on the list
Kenwood 
Yaesu
Icom
Elecraft
Tower Rules
JT65
JT9
FT8
FT4
K1JT


Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but it's a
start!!


73 de Lee KX4TT













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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................

[Phil Duff]

> On Aug 6, 2019, at 2:49 PM, Dan Edward Dba East edwards 
>  wrote:
> 
> gosh, am I the only 'old timer' who actually LIKES ft 8 ?? it has put qso's 
> in my top band log when the band  has been really crummy...
> and yes, i can copy cw...when the band is actually open...
> the jtAlert chat window can make the q's more personal, if desired...
> 73 W5XZ, dan

Dan - I’ve been licensed and active for 49 yrs so I guess I qualify as an “old 
timer” - but maybe not by some standards.

I enjoy FT8, and also SSB, CW, RTTY, FM, etc.Thats the whole point - if you 
enjoy it don’t let others rain on your parade.
  
This thread would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

73 Phil NA4M


-. .- ….- --
Phil Duff  na4m[at]suddenlink[dot]net
















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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................

[Dan Edward Dba East edwards]

 gosh, am I the only 'old timer' who actually LIKES ft 8 ?? it has put qso's in 
my top band log when the band  has been really crummy...
and yes, i can copy cw...when the band is actually open...
the jtAlert chat window can make the q's more personal, if desired...
73 W5XZ, dan


On Tuesday, August 6, 2019, 02:41:46 PM CDT, Lee. KX4TT via Topband 
 wrote:  
 
 OK - A few more additions

Lee

DMR
C4FM/System Fusion/Wires-X
D-STAR
EchoLink
IRLP
Remote Stations
RemoteHams
Remote Ham Radio
Amplifiers
Big Antennas
Little Antennas
OMs
YLs
XYLs
Harmonics
Sub-Harmonics
Solid-State
Tubes
Integrated Circuits
SDRs



-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike 
Fatchett
Sent: Tuesday, 6 August, 2019 15:26 
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will 
kill the hobby..

Working by the numbers and  Lists!

On 8/6/2019 1:24 PM, Lee. KX4TT via Topband wrote:
> OK - I think I've got a good start on the 
> list..who knew Joe Taylor was the Antichrist??
>
>
> Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular 
> order
>
> Spark
> CW
> AM
> SSB
> FM
> RTTY
> Packet
> Amtor
> Pactor
> Winlink
> PSK31
> PSK63
> MSFK8
> MSFK16
> M-RTTY
> EME
> Computers
> DXpeditions
> Contesters
> Holiday DXpeditions
> Nets
> OQRS
> PayPal
> Ebay
> Ragchewers
> Not enough computers
> Windows
> Linux
> Android
> MacOS
> Lowband Operators
> VHF operators
> Satellite Operators
> Microwave Operators
> Parks on the Air
> Islands on the Air
> Summits on the Air
> DXCC
> WAS
> VUCC
> WAZ
> ARRL
> CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list)
> 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any 
> pushback)...
> Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to.
> Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk 
> to
> K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn 
> Baxter) is SK, but where's the fun in that??
> FCC
> Appliance Operators
> CB guys
> QRP
> QRO
> Using Paddles
> Using a straight Key
> Using A Bug
> Using A Bug as a Straight Key
> Using a Keyer
> QRM
> QRN
> DQRM - That one we should keep on the list
> Kenwood
> Yaesu
> Icom
> Elecraft
> Tower Rules
> JT65
> JT9
> FT8
> FT4
> K1JT
>
>
> Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but 
> it's a start!!
>
>
> 73 de Lee KX4TT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
> Reflector

_
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_
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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................

[Lee. KX4TT via Topband]

OK - A few more additions

Lee

DMR
C4FM/System Fusion/Wires-X
D-STAR
EchoLink
IRLP
Remote Stations
RemoteHams
Remote Ham Radio
Amplifiers
Big Antennas
Little Antennas
OMs
YLs
XYLs
Harmonics
Sub-Harmonics
Solid-State
Tubes
Integrated Circuits
SDRs



-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike 
Fatchett
Sent: Tuesday, 6 August, 2019 15:26 
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will 
kill the hobby..

Working by the numbers and  Lists!

On 8/6/2019 1:24 PM, Lee. KX4TT via Topband wrote:
> OK - I think I've got a good start on the 
> list..who knew Joe Taylor was the Antichrist??
>
>
> Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular 
> order
>
> Spark
> CW
> AM
> SSB
> FM
> RTTY
> Packet
> Amtor
> Pactor
> Winlink
> PSK31
> PSK63
> MSFK8
> MSFK16
> M-RTTY
> EME
> Computers
> DXpeditions
> Contesters
> Holiday DXpeditions
> Nets
> OQRS
> PayPal
> Ebay
> Ragchewers
> Not enough computers
> Windows
> Linux
> Android
> MacOS
> Lowband Operators
> VHF operators
> Satellite Operators
> Microwave Operators
> Parks on the Air
> Islands on the Air
> Summits on the Air
> DXCC
> WAS
> VUCC
> WAZ
> ARRL
> CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list)
> 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any 
> pushback)...
> Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to.
> Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk 
> to
> K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn 
> Baxter) is SK, but where's the fun in that??
> FCC
> Appliance Operators
> CB guys
> QRP
> QRO
> Using Paddles
> Using a straight Key
> Using A Bug
> Using A Bug as a Straight Key
> Using a Keyer
> QRM
> QRN
> DQRM - That one we should keep on the list
> Kenwood
> Yaesu
> Icom
> Elecraft
> Tower Rules
> JT65
> JT9
> FT8
> FT4
> K1JT
>
>
> Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but 
> it's a start!!
>
>
> 73 de Lee KX4TT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
> Reflector

_
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_
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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

[Billy Cox]

Kevin,

You are certainly welcome (as long as Tree allows ...) to post your
views and opinions as anyone else. However, I don't agree with many
of your statements as they do not represent my views or experiences.

So please hold off on the "WE = everyone" bit please as I don't recall 
asking or giving permission for others to speak for me. QSL OM?

A week ago folks were trying to shame others as to "Oh NO FT8 can't
run automatically". (Wink Wink Nod Say No More). Reality is that dirty
little secret is actually well known. Too late to control/prevent it.

And as to the ARRL rule ... how would anyone know if they did or are
working a real person on FT8, again too late now to control/prevent it.

Along the line of what Jeff, K1ZM posted that upset Mike. Within the RTTY 
side there has been much concern as to the FCC (and with ARRL support?) 
changing the rules to allow even more unattended, encrypted communications. 

Much of that support seems to come from marine (think really non-amateur)
ship/boat owners using ham bands as their way of communicating who knows what. 

And so now there are two fundamentally opposed camps on that possibility.

Sure seems to be some similarity between that mode and FT8/FT? ... if so, 
are we about to see the 'battles of the robots' QRM on the bands?

Right now there are posts on the CQ Contest forum as to FT4 being set
to use 7047 .. roughly in the middle of the 40 CW band. It will be very
interesting to see how that plays out next, hopefully in a positive way.

Jerry, K4SAV once again is looking for verifiable information. Past posts
on Top Band seems to indicate small changes as of ~1 dB might be enough
to make/not make the QSO. What is the real repeatable difference on FTx?

(and when if will FT4 make an appearance on the other bands ...)

As others noted, the fad mode (it's how many years old?) no doubt has drawn
much attention and activity for the short term. Seeing overall data and not
just a limited view might (key word) moderate some of the excitement? So far
we are seeing subjective pluses and minuses as to the risk and rewards.

Where I do agree 100% with you is the W6AM book is an excellent shack item. B-)

Recall my two concerns ... damage the hobby
   destroy personal relationships

Billy, AA4NU

> On August 6, 2019 at 2:00 PM kol...@rcn.com wrote:
> 
> 
> "I said already last year. FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby. It takes away 
> all efforts, challenge and personal touch."
> 
> Read the W6AM book, get the West Coast DX bulletin compilation book and dig 
> back to your efforts in the '60s and '70s (if you were around). Even without 
> FT8, DXing is mega easier in the 21 Century than before. The "efforts, 
> challenge and personal touch" has been eroding for the last 30 years or so 
> and we GOT OVER IT! So why is FT8 suddenly the tipping point? It's just a 
> continuation of what was already going on for decades as technology unfolds.
> 
> "I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for 
> ever in our hobby."
> 
> Must not be very committed hams. Or old and tired...
> 
> "The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 
> 8 in mixed band dxcc:s. Make a special FT 8 award. That might help."
> 
> Personally, I have no objection to this. But THIS is the move that will save 
> ham radio???
> 
> "And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be FT 8  25 
> %.Fair ?"
> 
> Why shouldn't the DXpeditioners and the Ham Radio "marketplace" decide? BTW, 
> whenever I have operated from DX QTH's, except for Phone DX contests, I work 
> CW. Personal preference.
> 
> "I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much 
> fun,,,BEFORE"
> 
> This actually makes me sad to read. I say, be happy and operate how you 
> prefer, let the others go their way. I try to never let what others choose to 
> do ruin my fun! 
> 
> I can be a cynical old coot, but I am still optimistic that Ham Radio will 
> continue to bring enjoyment to all who discover it whatever their interests. 
> I see young folks at the local Record Store still buying Vinyl records, 
> likewise I suspect some young folks will fall in love with CW and SSB (if we 
> let them).
>  
> 73, Kevin K3OX
> 
>  
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
_
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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Working by the numbers and  Lists!

On 8/6/2019 1:24 PM, Lee. KX4TT via Topband wrote:

OK - I think I've got a good start on the list..who knew
Joe Taylor was the Antichrist??


Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular order

Spark
CW
AM
SSB
FM
RTTY
Packet
Amtor
Pactor
Winlink
PSK31
PSK63
MSFK8
MSFK16
M-RTTY
EME
Computers
DXpeditions
Contesters
Holiday DXpeditions
Nets
OQRS
PayPal
Ebay
Ragchewers
Not enough computers
Windows
Linux
Android
MacOS
Lowband Operators
VHF operators
Satellite Operators
Microwave Operators
Parks on the Air
Islands on the Air
Summits on the Air
DXCC
WAS
VUCC
WAZ
ARRL
CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list)
73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any
pushback)...
Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to.
Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk
to
K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn Baxter) is
SK, but where's the fun in that??
FCC
Appliance Operators
CB guys
QRP
QRO
Using Paddles
Using a straight Key
Using A Bug
Using A Bug as a Straight Key
Using a Keyer
QRM
QRN
DQRM - That one we should keep on the list
Kenwood
Yaesu
Icom
Elecraft
Tower Rules
JT65
JT9
FT8
FT4
K1JT


Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but it's a
start!!


73 de Lee KX4TT













_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................

[Lee. KX4TT via Topband]

OK - I think I've got a good start on the list..who knew
Joe Taylor was the Antichrist?? 


Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular order

Spark
CW
AM
SSB
FM
RTTY
Packet
Amtor
Pactor
Winlink
PSK31
PSK63
MSFK8
MSFK16
M-RTTY
EME
Computers
DXpeditions
Contesters
Holiday DXpeditions
Nets
OQRS
PayPal
Ebay
Ragchewers
Not enough computers
Windows
Linux
Android
MacOS
Lowband Operators
VHF operators
Satellite Operators
Microwave Operators
Parks on the Air
Islands on the Air
Summits on the Air
DXCC
WAS
VUCC
WAZ
ARRL
CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list)
73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any
pushback)...
Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to.
Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk
to
K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn Baxter) is
SK, but where's the fun in that??
FCC
Appliance Operators
CB guys
QRP 
QRO
Using Paddles
Using a straight Key
Using A Bug
Using A Bug as a Straight Key
Using a Keyer
QRM
QRN
DQRM - That one we should keep on the list
Kenwood 
Yaesu
Icom
Elecraft
Tower Rules
JT65
JT9
FT8
FT4
K1JT


Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but it's a
start!!


73 de Lee KX4TT













_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

[kolson]

"I said already last year. FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby. It takes away all 
efforts, challenge and personal touch."

Read the W6AM book, get the West Coast DX bulletin compilation book and dig 
back to your efforts in the '60s and '70s (if you were around). Even without 
FT8, DXing is mega easier in the 21 Century than before. The "efforts, 
challenge and personal touch" has been eroding for the last 30 years or so and 
we GOT OVER IT! So why is FT8 suddenly the tipping point? It's just a 
continuation of what was already going on for decades as technology unfolds.

"I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for 
ever in our hobby."

Must not be very committed hams. Or old and tired...

"The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 
in mixed band dxcc:s. Make a special FT 8 award. That might help."

Personally, I have no objection to this. But THIS is the move that will save 
ham radio???

"And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be FT 8  25 %.Fair 
?"

Why shouldn't the DXpeditioners and the Ham Radio "marketplace" decide? BTW, 
whenever I have operated from DX QTH's, except for Phone DX contests, I work 
CW. Personal preference.

"I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE"

This actually makes me sad to read. I say, be happy and operate how you prefer, 
let the others go their way. I try to never let what others choose to do ruin 
my fun! 

I can be a cynical old coot, but I am still optimistic that Ham Radio will 
continue to bring enjoyment to all who discover it whatever their interests. I 
see young folks at the local Record Store still buying Vinyl records, likewise 
I suspect some young folks will fall in love with CW and SSB (if we let them).
 
73, Kevin K3OX

 
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

[donroden]

My Heros Have Always Been Cowboys, CW Ops,
and those big booming voices on AM and SSB.

Listening to hams on 160 and 80 AM and distant BBC broadcasts hooked  
me at seven years old. ( Uncle's Korean Hallicrafters ).


What will kids be thrilled to hear tomorrow ?   Something dbs below  
the noise ?


Nope.

Don W4DNR since '62


Quoting Hans Hjelmström :


THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %.


_
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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

It doesn't bother me at all..

I would rather watch paint dry rather than operate FT8...

I am CW man... Always have been..

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

On 8/6/2019 12:54 PM, Hans Hjelmstr??m wrote:

THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %.

I said already last year.  FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby.

It takes away all efforts, challenge and personal touch.
I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for 
ever in our hobby.

The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 
in mixed band dxcc:s.Make a special FT 8 award.
That might help.And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be 
FT 8   25 %.Fair ?

As yourself, I will never touch this mode, and I can also NOT get any fun in 
having
my PC make these connections.

We are probably some 50 % of all active Hams  feeling the same, BUT answer from 
ARRL
( to me at least ) , was a very arrogant,,,take it or leave it.

Already authorities has started to ask for Amateur frequencies to be given to 
other
activities.

I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE

Take care,and ONLY by sharing our feelings,we might find a way to change this
unfortunate changement. I know, MANY MANY SM Hams ,that still TRY to stay by
human to human connections like CW/SSB/RY, but for how long ??

And even more.New Hams will not know CW.How many years will they enjoy
this PC to PC connections. Probably only few years,and then QRT.That will
be the end of our hobby.
Thanks for the QSO on 6 meter CW some years ago,,,by the way,,,

Regards

Hans  SM6CVX

6 aug 2019 kl. 18:32 skrev d...@np2j.com:

I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the 
160/FT8 issue.
Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA 
DXpedition.
I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying.

 From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital 
has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get on 
Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ and 
run station after station.

The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu stations in a 
few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, whenever there were Digital 
spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so called advantage of FT8 pulling signals 
out of the noise that can't be worked on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the 
band" by calling CQ.
Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to make 
a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ for an 
hour and not work anyone. Sad.

The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands 
including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get a 
nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago the 
pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 minutes 
and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when a 
DXpedition is on.

Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on 
160.

Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a computer do 
all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by making a 
"Contact" in this manner.


But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in 
the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is totally 
boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the DEATH OF HAM RADIO.

Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! SSB 
did not take the Human out of the loop.

First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that make CW 
keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of those things to make 
digital "contacts"

Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big 
towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside 
eventually also.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to 
commercial interests?

How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of 
bandwidth is only being used?

When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G 
GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a few 
characters a minute???

How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating digitally 
only a few characters a minute?


The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy way to 
work a new one".

Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the 
"contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is grabbing new ones the 
easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital 

Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

[Hans Hjelmström]

THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %.

I said already last year.  FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby.

It takes away all efforts, challenge and personal touch.
I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for 
ever in our hobby.

The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 
in mixed band dxcc:s.Make a special FT 8 award.
That might help.And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be 
FT 8   25 %.Fair ?

As yourself, I will never touch this mode, and I can also NOT get any fun in 
having
my PC make these connections.

We are probably some 50 % of all active Hams  feeling the same, BUT answer from 
ARRL 
( to me at least ) , was a very arrogant,,,take it or leave it.

Already authorities has started to ask for Amateur frequencies to be given to 
other
activities.

I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE

Take care,and ONLY by sharing our feelings,we might find a way to change this
unfortunate changement. I know, MANY MANY SM Hams ,that still TRY to stay by 
human to human connections like CW/SSB/RY, but for how long ??

And even more.New Hams will not know CW.How many years will they enjoy 
this PC to PC connections. Probably only few years,and then QRT.That will 
be the end of our hobby.
Thanks for the QSO on 6 meter CW some years ago,,,by the way,,,

Regards

Hans  SM6CVX
> 6 aug 2019 kl. 18:32 skrev d...@np2j.com:
> 
> I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the 
> 160/FT8 issue.
> Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA 
> DXpedition.
> I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying.
> 
> From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital 
> has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get 
> on Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ 
> and run station after station.
> 
> The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu 
> stations in a few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, 
> whenever there were Digital spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so 
> called advantage of FT8 pulling signals out of the noise that can't be worked 
> on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the band" by calling CQ.
> Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to 
> make a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ 
> for an hour and not work anyone. Sad.
> 
> The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands 
> including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get 
> a nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago 
> the pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 
> minutes and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when 
> a DXpedition is on.
> 
> Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on 
> 160.
> 
> Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a 
> computer do all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by 
> making a "Contact" in this manner.
> 
> 
> But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in 
> the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is 
> totally boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the 
> DEATH OF HAM RADIO.
> 
> Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! 
> SSB did not take the Human out of the loop.
> 
> First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that 
> make CW keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of 
> those things to make digital "contacts"
> 
> Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big 
> towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside 
> eventually also.
> 
> AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
> As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to 
> commercial interests?
> 
> How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of 
> bandwidth is only being used?
> 
> When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G 
> GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a 
> few characters a minute???
> 
> How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating 
> digitally only a few characters a minute?
> 
> 
> The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy 
> way to work a new one".
> 
> Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the 
> "contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is grabbing 
> new ones the easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital modes.
> So what motivates the FT8 activity is the desire to 

Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

[Howard Klein]

I mostly agree with Dan. I think of the nights and mornings of no sleep, 
climbing towers in sub freezing wx
to peak an antenna, hours and dollars spent to improve my signal, innovations 
tried often w/o success. When this history is compared to today’s mixed DXCC 
with FT8 I find it very discouraging. I have tried FT8 and find it something 
else to do in radio but it adulterates years of work. Might say I now live on 
an apartment with a very minimal station which does not affect my sentiments 
but very much affects my signal. For the record I have 375 countries and am on 
the #1 countries list.
I do believe FT8 should be a separate category.

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Topband  on behalf of d...@np2j.com 

Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 12:32:59 PM
To: TOPBAND@contesting.com 
Subject: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on
the 160/FT8 issue.
Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA
DXpedition.
I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is
dying.

 From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that
Digital has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago
I could get on Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few
minutes by calling CQ and run station after station.

  The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200
Eu stations in a few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into
Europe, whenever there were Digital spots I could make CW contacts. (I
think the so called advantage of FT8 pulling signals out of the noise
that can't be worked on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the
band" by calling CQ.
  Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while
to make a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can
call CQ for an hour and not work anyone. Sad.

The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other
bands including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on
160 and get a nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or
two. Two years ago the pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I
could call CQ for 10-15 minutes and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone
is on is for a Contest or when a DXpedition is on.

Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only
FT8 on 160.

Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having
a computer do all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you
get by making a "Contact" in this manner.


But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor
little in the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the
fact that it is totally boring, these are not the reasons I say that
Digital modes are the DEATH OF HAM RADIO.

Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the
same! SSB did not take the Human out of the loop.

First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers
that make CW keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need
any of those things to make digital "contacts"

Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big
towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside
eventually also.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space
to commercial interests?

How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz
of bandwidth is only being used?

When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and
with 5G GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a
speed of a few characters a minute???

How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating
digitally only a few characters a minute?


The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an
easy way to work a new one".

Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and
the "contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is
grabbing new ones the easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital
modes.
So what motivates the FT8 activity is the desire to increase ones DXCC
totals.

  The problem is these Digital mode "contacts" need to be separated from
the mixed DXCC, the ARRL needs to step up and create a Digital only DXCC
(Not RTTY).

A separate Digital DXCC might stop the bleeding of CW/SSB activity,
However I don't think the ARRL will do this as it makes too much sense,
and I am afraid it is too late anyway.

Enjoy it while you can.


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Re: Topband: 160

[kolson]

I was shooting for somewhat interesting, so it's nice to hear that I made it 
all the way to semi-interesting!

Mark, I am not sure why you felt compelled to defend your software expertise, 
but I don't think anyone intended to demean you in any way. If it came off that 
way, I apologize.

Now I have worked new countries on RTTY with my IC-7300 untethered to a 
computer. All it took was a) tune to the frequency of the DX cluster callout b) 
push message buttons until I worked the station c) Log it. So someone with your 
level of expertise surely would agree that that process with todays technology 
could be reduced to one button push. 

Further, since our computers can tune our radios, access DX cluster callouts, 
operate skimmer for more stations, decode any digital mode (and for that 
matter, CW and through voice recognition, SSB), switch our antennas, turn our 
rotors, access our DXCC records, interface with propagation software and real 
time solar indices, log the contacts, send the results to LOTW and print labels 
for QSL's, in principal, the station can be automated to any degree the 
software designer desires and has the chops to implement. 

Not to say that would be more fun. In fact, when computer contest logging came 
along I wasn't a big fan. But the world went on and now hardly anyone would 
(gulp) PAPER LOG! I would rather work CW, but I will work SSB and FT8 when it 
suits me.

Now regarding your baseball comment I feel on more solid ground. The game of 
baseball in Ruth's and Aaron's day was almost night and day different. In fact, 
Ruth had to play most of his games in the daytime summer heat, Aaron played 
most of his games at night for most of his career. And Ruth didn't have to face 
any Afro-American pitchers no matter how good they were (for obvious reasons). 
In Aaron's day, the balls were tighter and more consistently manufactured, the 
gloves larger (improving defensive efficiency) and the bats had thinner handles 
(allowing higher bat speeds). In addition, the fields were better maintained 
(and in some cases, had artificial turf) and the era of dedicated relief 
pitchers had arrived (in Ruth's day, relief pitchers were generally washed up 
starters only used in desperation). I could go on, but no one seriously 
interested thinks you can directly compare the records of players in different 
eras. And a large contributor to this was technology, like the chang
 es in Ham Radio are.

As far as your Bathroom comment, I have known guys who could do that while 
working a CW contest with the addition of a low-tech cup, hi hi.

73, Kevin K3OX

  

- Original Message -
From: Mark K3MSB 
To: kol...@rcn.com
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 17:56:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Topband: 160

Semi-Interesting post,  but not really applicable to the issue at hand.
>>
To me, the guys who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until the 
computer era 

I have 4 patents in software engineering.I've been doing software since 
about 1978 when I worked as a research assistant in my undergrad years.   I'd 
be delighted to put my experience in software engineering and computers next to 
yours or anyone else's on this list,  but I'm pretty sure it's quite beyond the 
button-monkey level of knowledge required to use FT-8.
>>
Hank Aaron didn't devalue Babe Ruth.
No he didn't, but I suspect he tried VERY hard to beat his record.   Both Babe 
Ruth and Hank Aaron used a bat, ball, and gloves.That was a pretty level 
playing field. Perhaps one day we'll have robot ball players mixed in with 
humans.Do yo think that will fly?Of course, closer to home,  we're now 
seeing where transgender issues are effecting competitive sports. 
Competition needs to be equal,  and there's nothing to prevent different levels 
of competition,  but equality and fairness must exist within the same level.
As I mentioned in a related post while I was /HH6 in May,  my FT-8 oriented 
friend initiated an FT-8 sequence,  went to the bathroom,  and after coming out 
pointed out he made a QSO while in the bathroom.  He specifically did that to 
show me it could be done. And FT-8 people want respect for that?Sorry 
Charlie,  not from me.  

Mark K3MSB

















On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 11:36 AM  wrote:


"The dogs bark, but the caravan rolls on" -ancient proverb


As I understand it, some of this discussion is based on the romantic idea that 
we old timers had it tough but today it's all easy and without real challenge. 
This charge is nothing new, so a little history might be in order. The history 
of Ham Radio since the advent of the home computer has been the gradual 
replacement of operator intervention with computer initiatives in our operating 
activities. Let's look at some.


FT8: 

Is ultimately just another digital mode, the only real difference is that more 
of the automation is built in from the start. But, in principal, any of the 
dig

Re: Topband: 160

[Mark K3MSB]

Semi-Interesting post,  but not really applicable to the issue at hand.

>> To me, the guys who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until
the computer era

I have 4 patents in software engineering.I've been doing software since
about 1978 when I worked as a research assistant in my undergrad years.
I'd be delighted to put my experience in software engineering and computers
next to yours or anyone else's on this list,  but I'm pretty sure it's
quite beyond the button-monkey level of knowledge required to use FT-8.

>> Hank Aaron didn't devalue Babe Ruth.

No he didn't, but I suspect he tried VERY hard to beat his record.   Both
Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron used a bat, ball, and gloves.That was a pretty
level playing field. Perhaps one day we'll have robot ball players
mixed in with humans.Do yo think that will fly?Of course, closer to
home,  we're now seeing where transgender issues are effecting competitive
sports. Competition needs to be equal,  and there's nothing to prevent
different levels of competition,  but equality and fairness must exist
within the same level.

As I mentioned in a related post while I was /HH6 in May,  my FT-8 oriented
friend initiated an FT-8 sequence,  went to the bathroom,  and after coming
out pointed out he made a QSO while in the bathroom.  He specifically did
that to show me it could be done. And FT-8 people want respect for
that?Sorry Charlie,  not from me.

Mark K3MSB


















On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 11:36 AM  wrote:

>
> "The dogs bark, but the caravan rolls on" -ancient proverb
>
> As I understand it, some of this discussion is based on the romantic idea
> that we old timers had it tough but today it's all easy and without real
> challenge. This charge is nothing new, so a little history might be in
> order. The history of Ham Radio since the advent of the home computer has
> been the gradual replacement of operator intervention with computer
> initiatives in our operating activities. Let's look at some.
>
> FT8:
> Is ultimately just another digital mode, the only real difference is that
> more of the automation is built in from the start. But, in principal, any
> of the digital modes (indeed any mode at all) can be made as automated as
> one desires these days. For those under 45 (hi hi), to operate RTTY back in
> the day required a thing called a Terminal Unit to translate the mark/space
> signals to voltage levels to feed a Teletype machine (which was basically a
> big, noisy, heavy duty typewriter). But that hasn't been the reality for
> RTTY for a long time. RTTY is now as easy as downloading a program, only
> marginally more difficult than operating FT8. After all, the packet cluster
> can give you the who and where and the program tunes your radio to the
> proper frequency. You press "send" until you get a reply (if you are
> working a rare DX counter operating split there can be some more to it) and
> the computer logs it after you make the contact and can even send the
> logging in to LOTW for credit.
>
> DXing:
> Originally required hours and hours in front of the radio, tuning and
> looking for the DX. Now there were things like DX nets, and
> newsletters/bulletins and the like to help a bit and DXpeditions were
> publicised in magazines and word of mouth. But with the advent of the
> computer and packet radio, all that changed. Decades ago, a friend of mine
> developed a computer program to track your DX totals and generate mailing
> labels for the QSL's. He interfaced that with the Packet and when a new
> coun... err... entity came on the air, his computer would send "DX" (in CW,
> of course) and he could walk back to the shack, work the counter and go
> back to the ball game. Quite a culture shock for the guys still tuning
> around on their National HRO's. Now the DX cluster is an entrenched reality
> along with Skimmer etc. No sitting in front of the rig necessary. And
> QSLing in the day was a royal PITA, now you just print out the labels and
> download the LOTW credits.
>
> Contesting:
> There is a film (now video, produced by a NFL films dude!) from decades
> ago on YouTube that shows the DX contest from the perspective of a bunch of
> the Frankford Radio Club participants. Again, if you are not over 45 it may
> be a bit of a mystery what's going on. There is no Packet cluster, so DX
> callouts happened on 2m FM! And you will see lots of paper. They are Log
> Sheets (where you wrote down your contacts) and Cross Check sheets (where
> you kept track of you contacts by listing them alphabetically so you
> wouldn't work too many duplicate contacts). After the contest, you would
> have to "redupe" your log to try and catch dupes that got past in the heat
> of battle, this would take a week or two of intermittent effort. And a
> fabulous talent for a contester to have was a good level of call recall (hi
> hi), the more guys you rememberd you worked the less you had to refer to
> the Cross Check sheet. Of 

Re: Topband: 160

[Cecil]

Excellent post...

Cecil
K5DL

Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone
On Aug 3, 2019 10:35 AM, kol...@rcn.com wrote:
>
>
> "The dogs bark, but the caravan rolls on" -ancient proverb 
>
> As I understand it, some of this discussion is based on the romantic idea 
> that we old timers had it tough but today it's all easy and without real 
> challenge. This charge is nothing new, so a little history might be in order. 
> The history of Ham Radio since the advent of the home computer has been the 
> gradual replacement of operator intervention with computer initiatives in our 
> operating activities. Let's look at some. 
>
> FT8: 
> Is ultimately just another digital mode, the only real difference is that 
> more of the automation is built in from the start. But, in principal, any of 
> the digital modes (indeed any mode at all) can be made as automated as one 
> desires these days. For those under 45 (hi hi), to operate RTTY back in the 
> day required a thing called a Terminal Unit to translate the mark/space 
> signals to voltage levels to feed a Teletype machine (which was basically a 
> big, noisy, heavy duty typewriter). But that hasn't been the reality for RTTY 
> for a long time. RTTY is now as easy as downloading a program, only 
> marginally more difficult than operating FT8. After all, the packet cluster 
> can give you the who and where and the program tunes your radio to the proper 
> frequency. You press "send" until you get a reply (if you are working a rare 
> DX counter operating split there can be some more to it) and the computer 
> logs it after you make the contact and can even send the logging in to LOTW 
> for credit. 
>
> DXing: 
> Originally required hours and hours in front of the radio, tuning and looking 
> for the DX. Now there were things like DX nets, and newsletters/bulletins and 
> the like to help a bit and DXpeditions were publicised in magazines and word 
> of mouth. But with the advent of the computer and packet radio, all that 
> changed. Decades ago, a friend of mine developed a computer program to track 
> your DX totals and generate mailing labels for the QSL's. He interfaced that 
> with the Packet and when a new coun... err... entity came on the air, his 
> computer would send "DX" (in CW, of course) and he could walk back to the 
> shack, work the counter and go back to the ball game. Quite a culture shock 
> for the guys still tuning around on their National HRO's. Now the DX cluster 
> is an entrenched reality along with Skimmer etc. No sitting in front of the 
> rig necessary. And QSLing in the day was a royal PITA, now you just print out 
> the labels and download the LOTW credits. 
>
> Contesting: 
> There is a film (now video, produced by a NFL films dude!) from decades ago 
> on YouTube that shows the DX contest from the perspective of a bunch of the 
> Frankford Radio Club participants. Again, if you are not over 45 it may be a 
> bit of a mystery what's going on. There is no Packet cluster, so DX callouts 
> happened on 2m FM! And you will see lots of paper. They are Log Sheets (where 
> you wrote down your contacts) and Cross Check sheets (where you kept track of 
> you contacts by listing them alphabetically so you wouldn't work too many 
> duplicate contacts). After the contest, you would have to "redupe" your log 
> to try and catch dupes that got past in the heat of battle, this would take a 
> week or two of intermittent effort. And a fabulous talent for a contester to 
> have was a good level of call recall (hi hi), the more guys you rememberd you 
> worked the less you had to refer to the Cross Check sheet. Of course, all 
> this is gone, replaced by our computer running a program like N1MM (or CT in 
> th 
> e olden times). 
>   
> I could go on (but mercifully won't), the point is that this is all part of a 
> natural progression, an inevitable part of human innovation. To me, the guys 
> who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until the computer era. 
> You could argue that we have devalued their accomplishments (you can also 
> argue they had more fun, but that's another post). But I would argue that 
> everyone's accomplishments stand on their own according to their time, 
> circumstances and operating preferences. Hank Aaron didn't devalue Babe Ruth. 
> I would also argue that the world keeps turning and the caravan is 
> inexorable... 
>
> 73, Kevin K3OX  
>
> _ 
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector 
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160

[Renee K6FSB]

I agree. It is disconcerting to reference something we cannot all access.
If possible at least place said info where those that wish to access may 
do so.

if possible paraphrase-
The "how to article" in question from QST 1972 where an operator makes a 
completely operator free station to make contacts.bottom line 
"somehow it (ham radio) just doesn't seem to be as much fun as it used 
to be.. "

tnx e 73
Renée, K6FSB


On 2019-08-03 11:49 a.m., Martin Kratoska wrote:

Gentlemen,

stop this annoying practice, please! Not all are ARRL members!

Thanks for understanding,

73
Martin, OK1RR


Dne 03. 08. 19 v 20:20 donov...@starpower.net napsal(a):


Hi Bob

The "how to" article is right here:


http://p1k.arrl.org/pubs_archive/63144


73
Frank
W3LPL

- Original Message -

From: "Robert Brennan via Topband" 
To: "Cecil" 
Cc: "rich k7zv" , "Harald Rester" 
, "Alan Swinger" , 
topband@contesting.com

Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 10:00:03 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: 160

Gentleman,
I have been using ft8 now for a little over a year now and have been 
relatively successful with it.

I also use CW and SSB.
If I can set up my station on ft8 and have it run automatically and 
collect new entities.

I would really like to know how to do that.
Perhaps one of you can write an article for QST.

73 Bob ad6hf

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 2, 2019, at 2:45 PM, Cecil  wrote:



Sent from my iPad

On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Alan Swinger  
wrote:


. Since FT8 operators can walk away and not participate in QSOs, 
and come back after some other activity and see how many new 
countries and QSOs that the computer made, this is unlike Digital 
modes where operators must remain engaged to make QSOs. Therefore, 
seems to me that such Computer-generated contacts should have a 
separate category in the current award systems since the operators 
are not directly involved in making the QSOs . . . call it 
Computer-Aided Digital or something more clever. No argument that 
skill is required to set up a station to make FT-8 contacts, but a 
different set than what those of us who work DXCC, Challenge, etc 
use on CW, RTTY, and SSB, including those towers, expensive 
equipment, skills, and years of hard work to get the new ones when 
there was NO FT-8 or similar modes!
So, I do not be begrudge the new low signal computer-aided modes, 
nor do I cast aspersions on the Ops who enjoy using them . . . even 
though I am unlikely to join their ranks, but the Ham community 
should not penalize those of us who used non-FT modes to get our 
hard earned awards by giving an unfair advantage to a new 
technology. We (Ham Radio) need the New Technology, but these modes 
are sufficiently different in many ways from the older modes that 
justifies a separate category in the award spectrum. Therefore, I 
urge the ARRL and the CQ Magazine leadership to establish a Digital 
award category that is separate and different from the current DXCC 
et al Digital criteria.

Alan Swinger K9MBQ
Charlottesville, VA



-Original Message-

From: rich_k...@gphilltop.com
Sent: Aug 2, 2019 4:22 PM
To: Harald Rester 
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160

As ham radio changes there will remain at least a niche for CW, 
SSB, and
RTTY and it's competitions. FT8 will supplement the bands , not 
supplant
it, IMO. Do you think FT8, FT4 and whatever digital modes come 
along are
the future or will something else take its place? Who knows... 
time and
technology moves on. Maybe it might attract some of the 
Millennials to

fill in the void by us Baby Boomers who will all too soon be making.
Let's set a good example for them to follow.

Rich K7ZV



On 2019-08-02 12:42 pm, Harald Rester wrote:
Think about the time *we all *could have been on the air, while 
staring
at our screens, typing and reading. I make QSY to the shack - Hpe 
CU!


Harry, DH1NBE




Am 02.08.2019 um 21:26 schrieb uy0zg:


I do not propose stopping the FT8.

just compete with each other.

But keep in mind - Arnold will be the first -)):

https://www.alamy.com/arnold-schwarzenegger-terminator-2-judgment-day-1991-image66516208.html 





---
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua

W0MU Mike Fatchett писал 2019-08-02 21:52:

Ah so all FT8 users are cheaters. Does that mean that all Russian
hams use way more power than they should and their scores 
should not

count either?

The real issue here is change. Ham radio has been in constant 
motion

and change since it started and I hope in continues that way well
after we are dead.

So we better stop FT8 and protect VE1ZZ?

Sorry no.

Good day.


On 8/2/2019 12:45 PM, uy0zg wrote:

Hello, Mike

This is how the world works so that humanity always has moral
values.

They must be protected.
Example:
in a few years, 334 VE1ZZ countries will lose their value. His
achievements will be eaten by computer programs and robots 

It is right ?
Will there

Re: Topband: 160

[Mike Waters]

It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever join the ARRL again.

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 1:50 PM Martin Kratoska  wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>
> stop this annoying practice, please! Not all are ARRL members!
>
> Thanks for understanding,
>
> 73
> Martin, OK1RR
>
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160

[Martin Kratoska]

Gentlemen,

stop this annoying practice, please! Not all are ARRL members!

Thanks for understanding,

73
Martin, OK1RR


Dne 03. 08. 19 v 20:20 donov...@starpower.net napsal(a):


Hi Bob

The "how to" article is right here:


http://p1k.arrl.org/pubs_archive/63144


73
Frank
W3LPL

- Original Message -

From: "Robert Brennan via Topband" 
To: "Cecil" 
Cc: "rich k7zv" , "Harald Rester" , "Alan 
Swinger" , topband@contesting.com
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 10:00:03 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: 160

Gentleman,
I have been using ft8 now for a little over a year now and have been relatively 
successful with it.
I also use CW and SSB.
If I can set up my station on ft8 and have it run automatically and collect new 
entities.
I would really like to know how to do that.
Perhaps one of you can write an article for QST.

73 Bob ad6hf

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 2, 2019, at 2:45 PM, Cecil  wrote:



Sent from my iPad


On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Alan Swinger  wrote:


. Since FT8 operators can walk away and not participate in QSOs, and come back 
after some other activity and see how many new countries and QSOs that the 
computer made, this is unlike Digital modes where operators must remain engaged 
to make QSOs. Therefore, seems to me that such Computer-generated contacts 
should have a separate category in the current award systems since the 
operators are not directly involved in making the QSOs . . . call it 
Computer-Aided Digital or something more clever. No argument that skill is 
required to set up a station to make FT-8 contacts, but a different set than 
what those of us who work DXCC, Challenge, etc use on CW, RTTY, and SSB, 
including those towers, expensive equipment, skills, and years of hard work to 
get the new ones when there was NO FT-8 or similar modes!
So, I do not be begrudge the new low signal computer-aided modes, nor do I cast 
aspersions on the Ops who enjoy using them . . . even though I am unlikely to 
join their ranks, but the Ham community should not penalize those of us who 
used non-FT modes to get our hard earned awards by giving an unfair advantage 
to a new technology. We (Ham Radio) need the New Technology, but these modes 
are sufficiently different in many ways from the older modes that justifies a 
separate category in the award spectrum. Therefore, I urge the ARRL and the CQ 
Magazine leadership to establish a Digital award category that is separate and 
different from the current DXCC et al Digital criteria.
Alan Swinger K9MBQ
Charlottesville, VA



-Original Message-

From: rich_k...@gphilltop.com
Sent: Aug 2, 2019 4:22 PM
To: Harald Rester 
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160

As ham radio changes there will remain at least a niche for CW, SSB, and
RTTY and it's competitions. FT8 will supplement the bands , not supplant
it, IMO. Do you think FT8, FT4 and whatever digital modes come along are
the future or will something else take its place? Who knows... time and
technology moves on. Maybe it might attract some of the Millennials to
fill in the void by us Baby Boomers who will all too soon be making.
Let's set a good example for them to follow.

Rich K7ZV



On 2019-08-02 12:42 pm, Harald Rester wrote:
Think about the time *we all *could have been on the air, while staring
at our screens, typing and reading. I make QSY to the shack - Hpe CU!

Harry, DH1NBE




Am 02.08.2019 um 21:26 schrieb uy0zg:


I do not propose stopping the FT8.

just compete with each other.

But keep in mind - Arnold will be the first -)):

https://www.alamy.com/arnold-schwarzenegger-terminator-2-judgment-day-1991-image66516208.html



---
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua

W0MU Mike Fatchett писал 2019-08-02 21:52:

Ah so all FT8 users are cheaters. Does that mean that all Russian
hams use way more power than they should and their scores should not
count either?

The real issue here is change. Ham radio has been in constant motion
and change since it started and I hope in continues that way well
after we are dead.

So we better stop FT8 and protect VE1ZZ?

Sorry no.

Good day.


On 8/2/2019 12:45 PM, uy0zg wrote:

Hello, Mike

This is how the world works so that humanity always has moral
values.

They must be protected.
Example:
in a few years, 334 VE1ZZ countries will lose their value. His
achievements will be eaten by computer programs and robots 

It is right ?
Will there be many talents at 160 meters like Jack?

Will not be !

On the contrary - more and more stupidity and envy



---
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua

W0MU Mike Fatchett писал 2019-08-02 18:24:

Cheating is cheating. How many people used remote stations,
exceeded
their power limits, etc. Singling out a mode because you are
upset
that it has taken away activity in your preferred mode is not
helpful
to the hobby. Not everyone that use FT8 cheats. Not everyone
that
uses a amp that exceeds their legal limit uses it in that fash