Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
On 8/4/2023 7:42 AM, Mike Waters wrote: If you don't already have it,*Low Band DXing* by John Devoldere, ON4UN (published by the ARRL) has a very informative chapter about receiving antennas. Most of it is about Beverage antennas. Highly recommended. Yes, highly recommended. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
Ah yes! If it's not the latest and last edition, then you should get one. It corrected many mistakes and omissions in previous editions. 73 Mike W0BTU On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 10:32 AM Chuck Dietz wrote: > I keep it beside my chair in the living room. > > Chuck W5PR > > On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 9:42 AM Mike Waters wrote: > >> If you don't already have it, *Low Band DXing* by John Devoldere, ON4UN >> (published by the ARRL) has a very informative chapter about receiving >> antennas. Most of it is about Beverage antennas. Highly recommended. >> >> 73 Mike >> W0BTU >> https://web.archive.org/web/20190827040547/http://w0btu.com/ >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, 10:16 PM Chuck Dietz wrote: >> >>> Thank you everyone who replied. The consensus was that sloping ground >>> will >>> not matter much. >>> >> _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
I keep it beside my chair in the living room. Chuck W5PR On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 9:42 AM Mike Waters wrote: > If you don't already have it, *Low Band DXing* by John Devoldere, ON4UN > (published by the ARRL) has a very informative chapter about receiving > antennas. Most of it is about Beverage antennas. Highly recommended. > > 73 Mike > W0BTU > https://web.archive.org/web/20190827040547/http://w0btu.com/ > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, 10:16 PM Chuck Dietz wrote: > >> Thank you everyone who replied. The consensus was that sloping ground will >> not matter much. >> I was discussing with Tree that I may have the opportunity to put up a >> similar, same direction, but temporary Beverage on the opposite side of >> the >> hill which slopes in the opposite direction to compare. The A-B comparison >> would be interesting. >> >> Chuck W5PR >> >> _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
If you don't already have it, *Low Band DXing* by John Devoldere, ON4UN (published by the ARRL) has a very informative chapter about receiving antennas. Most of it is about Beverage antennas. Highly recommended. 73 Mike W0BTU https://web.archive.org/web/20190827040547/http://w0btu.com/ On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, 10:16 PM Chuck Dietz wrote: > Thank you everyone who replied. The consensus was that sloping ground will > not matter much. > I was discussing with Tree that I may have the opportunity to put up a > similar, same direction, but temporary Beverage on the opposite side of the > hill which slopes in the opposite direction to compare. The A-B comparison > would be interesting. > > Chuck W5PR > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
Thank you everyone who replied. The consensus was that sloping ground will not matter much. I was discussing with Tree that I may have the opportunity to put up a similar, same direction, but temporary Beverage on the opposite side of the hill which slopes in the opposite direction to compare. The A-B comparison would be interesting. Chuck W5PR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
Same here, 570’ W/E with 80ft drop and ~8ft high in a hedge works well in both directions. Jeremy G3XDK > On 2 Aug 2023, at 21:37, Tree wrote: > > My E/W Beverate (bi directional - brute force - transformers on each end > and two feedlines) has probably a 75 foot drop from one end to the other. > Works fine uphill. > > Tree N6TR > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 11:51 AM Jim Brown wrote: > >> On 8/2/2023 11:11 AM, Chuck Dietz wrote: >>> Am I correct in assuming that Beverage wires sloping downward from the >> feed >>> point to the termination will work better than ones that slope upward? >> >> My Beverages are over terrain that starts high, slopes down nearly 100 >> ft to a creek, then back up to the elevation where they started. They >> roughly follow that terrain, but one is about 15 ft high where it goes >> over the creek. They both work fine, only issue is noise from solar >> systems in neighbor homes. >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
My E/W Beverate (bi directional - brute force - transformers on each end and two feedlines) has probably a 75 foot drop from one end to the other. Works fine uphill. Tree N6TR On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 11:51 AM Jim Brown wrote: > On 8/2/2023 11:11 AM, Chuck Dietz wrote: > > Am I correct in assuming that Beverage wires sloping downward from the > feed > > point to the termination will work better than ones that slope upward? > > My Beverages are over terrain that starts high, slopes down nearly 100 > ft to a creek, then back up to the elevation where they started. They > roughly follow that terrain, but one is about 15 ft high where it goes > over the creek. They both work fine, only issue is noise from solar > systems in neighbor homes. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
On 8/2/2023 11:11 AM, Chuck Dietz wrote: Am I correct in assuming that Beverage wires sloping downward from the feed point to the termination will work better than ones that slope upward? My Beverages are over terrain that starts high, slopes down nearly 100 ft to a creek, then back up to the elevation where they started. They roughly follow that terrain, but one is about 15 ft high where it goes over the creek. They both work fine, only issue is noise from solar systems in neighbor homes. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Beverage Antennas on Sloping Ground
Am I correct in assuming that Beverage wires sloping downward from the feed point to the termination will work better than ones that slope upward? I have two places I would like to put bidirectional Beverages, but they are both on sloping ground. I’m wondering if it would be worth the effort to make them bidirectional or should I just go with unidirectional ones toward the downslope direction? Soil is good and the slope would be about 10’ or a little less in the 500’ or so lengths. They will be about 10’ high so the tractor will go under them. Quiet country local. Thanks, Chuck W5PR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
Hello All, Just found old datas on a similar line made for the French Army , results are the following: The impedance was determined by measurements to be around 150 Ohms old message: I measured the losses of the 150 Ohms old military telephone line: I made two transformers 50 to 150 ohms tested them in serie , had about 0.4 dB losses from 1 to 30 MHz, then I introduced the line, input match was better than 25 dB, taking into account the losses of the test fixture, for a length of 30 meters ( 100ft) I had the following losses ( measured with a calibrated HP network analyser): 1.2 dB at 1.8 MHz, 2.25 dB at 3.8 Mhz, 3.64 dB at 7 MHz, 4.5 dB at 10 MHz. So for a beverage of one lambda at 1.8 MHz it would be about 6 dB !! I would not be suprised that line was manufactured in the US 73 Jacques F6BKI -Message d'origine- From: Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:39 AM To: ZR Cc: topband@contesting.com ; Bruce Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas What may be more destructive is a slow velocity factor in the insulated wire. There is no way to estimate that, you just have to measure it. If the VF is low, then you get into the same kind of problems as one has in designing BOG's (beverage on ground), where the signal already on the wire is moving much slower than the signal in the air, just about to induce the wire. Telco C wire was not designed with anything RF in mind. The dielectric might be something exotic specifically designed for long life, and a VF slow as molasses. 73, Guy. On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:32 PM, ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antennas Re Tom: An impedance error of 20 ohms on a 100 ohm line is as meaningful as an 80 ohm error on 400 ohm line Thanks Tom for clearing that up. I tried early Saturday morning, while very sleepy, to get this info out. A 680 ohm line Beverage with fence wire, the error ratio is even higher. (Wide spacing is more RF forgiving, in terms of inches, than close spaced lines). But we do need to be accurate. ** Wide spacing is also more prone to unbalance wheras close spacing and twisting promotes good balance. A few years ago I had customer reports, stating they had run their two wire, fence wire Beverages, fastened vertical with good results. At that time I switched a 300 foot horizontal run to vertical, and could not see any difference. Granted this was not an instant change A to B test, but it sure is an easier installation. I haven't seen anyone frequently transpose their two fence wire Beverages in my area, but may be a good idea. 73 Bruce ** That barely qualifies as a subjective test and 300' for Topband isnt that directive/effective to start with.Try it at 1 wavelength or more in a controlled test. Carl KM1H No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5149 - Release Date: 07/23/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
I'm just thinking about the probably slow velocity factor of the stuff Jacques describes, the loss, and the poor performance it would give if used for a reversible beverage. The losses as a reversible beverage would far exceed those used as a balanced feedline, because of the balance partly cancelling fields in the dielectric between them. Used in a completely unbalanced manner, ALL the dielectric around both wires contributes to loss in either direction, leading to the intriguing possibility of increasing the loss in that application by 3 or 4. Then you put it out for 500 feet. 3 x 1.8 x 5 = 27 dB loss, on 160 meters! And that not accounting for issues with VF creating BOG like problems in reception. Is there really anyone actually using this stuff for reversible beverages on 160??? This stuff could make you plumb deaf on 160. 73, Guy. On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:01 AM, f6...@orange.fr wrote: Hello All, Just found old datas on a similar line made for the French Army , results are the following: The impedance was determined by measurements to be around 150 Ohms old message: I measured the losses of the 150 Ohms old military telephone line: I made two transformers 50 to 150 ohms tested them in serie , had about 0.4 dB losses from 1 to 30 MHz, then I introduced the line, input match was better than 25 dB, taking into account the losses of the test fixture, for a length of 30 meters ( 100ft) I had the following losses ( measured with a calibrated HP network analyser): 1.2 dB at 1.8 MHz, 2.25 dB at 3.8 Mhz, 3.64 dB at 7 MHz, 4.5 dB at 10 MHz. So for a beverage of one lambda at 1.8 MHz it would be about 6 dB !! I would not be suprised that line was manufactured in the US 73 Jacques F6BKI -Message d'origine- From: Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:39 AM To: ZR Cc: topband@contesting.com ; Bruce Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas What may be more destructive is a slow velocity factor in the insulated wire. There is no way to estimate that, you just have to measure it. If the VF is low, then you get into the same kind of problems as one has in designing BOG's (beverage on ground), where the signal already on the wire is moving much slower than the signal in the air, just about to induce the wire. Telco C wire was not designed with anything RF in mind. The dielectric might be something exotic specifically designed for long life, and a VF slow as molasses. 73, Guy. On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:32 PM, ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antennas Re Tom: An impedance error of 20 ohms on a 100 ohm line is as meaningful as an 80 ohm error on 400 ohm line Thanks Tom for clearing that up. I tried early Saturday morning, while very sleepy, to get this info out. A 680 ohm line Beverage with fence wire, the error ratio is even higher. (Wide spacing is more RF forgiving, in terms of inches, than close spaced lines). But we do need to be accurate. ** Wide spacing is also more prone to unbalance wheras close spacing and twisting promotes good balance. A few years ago I had customer reports, stating they had run their two wire, fence wire Beverages, fastened vertical with good results. At that time I switched a 300 foot horizontal run to vertical, and could not see any difference. Granted this was not an instant change A to B test, but it sure is an easier installation. I haven't seen anyone frequently transpose their two fence wire Beverages in my area, but may be a good idea. 73 Bruce ** That barely qualifies as a subjective test and 300' for Topband isnt that directive/effective to start with.Try it at 1 wavelength or more in a controlled test. Carl KM1H No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5149 - Release Date: 07/23/12 __**_ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK __**_ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
Hi Guy, Good topic. The losses as a reversible beverage would far exceed those used as a balanced feedline, because of the balance partly cancelling fields in the dielectric between them. Slow wave structures are more common in microwave. Anything that increases capacitance or inductance per unit foot will slow wave propagation. The formulas are 1/f*sqrt LC for wavelength, and 1/sqrt LC for phase velocity. I built short Beverages with multiple ferrite sleeves, because a thick dielectric was impossible. There are limitations for how slow we can make the wave that change with antenna length, after which the antenna reverses. This is why most slinky Beverage theory put out was nonsense, because the real action isn't packing a wave of wire in a small areabut rather slowing the velocity factor a correct amount. I *think* the limit for a half wave structure is a Vp of about .5 before the system reverses and starts firing backwards, but it has been years since I looked at slow wave structures for 160. Velocity factor in this case is caused by the interaction of dielectric and electric field, specifically the increase in capacitance. The electric field is actually more concentrated between the two wires when voltages are out-of-phase, so the dielectric has more effect. When in parallel mode, more of the field is outside the line dielectric in air, although the field is more intense near the conductor. By the way, this is one of the rubs in making a Beverage really long. Is there really anyone actually using this stuff for reversible beverages on 160??? This stuff could make you plumb deaf on 160. I would avoid things that slow the wave in longer antennas. Phase is already bad enough in long low wires. A very thick dielectric certainly would not help as an antenna becomes longer. As it becomes longer, the arriving wave would be increasingly out-of-phase with current in the wire. But the primary velocity factor and loss effects are going to be in differential mode, where the field is most concentrated between conductors. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
Yeah, so he says when the wire is new. There is an ASSUMPTION that stuff retains characteristic at RF over time when it was only designed for audio. Have you ever noticed how pungent that stuff smells when you first pull it off the roll. That stuff cures over time. Guys at Bell Labs had HUGE fields planted with thousands of telephone poles, different wood, different treatment, some in ground for decades and decades, TESTING real life deterioration. Some of that wire has been in the air since before I was born, carrying audio. That's what it was made for, tested for, certified for. Maybe if Herb still has it, he can run a test on the strung out, aged wire with a 450 ohm resistor on the far end of it, and get char impedance, loss and velocity factor numbers on it. It's been out there in the salt air for a while now. Herb??? 73, Guy. On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com wrote: From what I've read, the characteristics of WD-1x may vary quite a bit. It's interesting to read the results of the comparison that Herb did between some and open wire line back in 2008: http://lists.contesting.com/_topband/2008-12/msg00016.html As for low velocity factor, I think maybe that can actually help you if you don't have room for a full-size Beverage. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
- Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas Hi Guy, Good topic. The losses as a reversible beverage would far exceed those used as a balanced feedline, because of the balance partly cancelling fields in the dielectric between them. Slow wave structures are more common in microwave. Anything that increases capacitance or inductance per unit foot will slow wave propagation. The formulas are 1/f*sqrt LC for wavelength, and 1/sqrt LC for phase velocity. I built short Beverages with multiple ferrite sleeves, because a thick dielectric was impossible. There are limitations for how slow we can make the wave that change with antenna length, after which the antenna reverses. This is why most slinky Beverage theory put out was nonsense, because the real action isn't packing a wave of wire in a small areabut rather slowing the velocity factor a correct amount. I *think* the limit for a half wave structure is a Vp of about .5 before the system reverses and starts firing backwards, but it has been years since I looked at slow wave structures for 160. I dont know about your most comment but a Slinky Beverage works very well as long as its kept under the direction reversing length. Its easy to calculate the electrical wavelength and then the added loss and wave slowing of the steel to come up with a workable version. I havent gone beyond 5 of the full size Slinkys stretched over 175' which worked very well for me for years. They require regular maintenance to retard rusting or the brass versions can be used. The Slinky is just one way to reduce the physical length, there is no mystery involved. Carl KM1H ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
There is an excellent article in the July/August 2012 issue of QEX describing how the author improved the performance of a Beverage by breaking it into two in-line segments coupled by a pair of conventional Beverage matching transformers. He also provides detailed construction information for a switched bidirectional Beverage that he built. He observes that: - a long Beverage produces a stronger signal and better directivity when it is broken into two segments and a proper length phasing line is inserted between the two matching transformers. - a short Beverage (two coupled inline Beverages, each either 0.15 or 0.2 wavelengths long) produces improved directivity when a 1/8 wavelength coax phasing line in inserted between the matching transformers producing directivity similar to a conventional Beverage of twice the length of two coupled short Beverages. The article has many azimuthal and elevation plots and tables from his EZNEC modelling, for example: Beverage length Gain (dBi) F/B 3 dB beamwidth 2 x 0.15 -21.1 9.9 92 degrees 0.5-15.113.5 93 2 x 0.2-18.011.0 87 0.75 -11.510.7 93 1.0 -9.315.5 79 73 Frank W3LPL Original message Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:12:42 -0400 From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas To: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Hi Guy, Good topic. The losses as a reversible beverage would far exceed those used as a balanced feedline, because of the balance partly cancelling fields in the dielectric between them. Slow wave structures are more common in microwave. Anything that increases capacitance or inductance per unit foot will slow wave propagation. The formulas are 1/f*sqrt LC for wavelength, and 1/sqrt LC for phase velocity. I built short Beverages with multiple ferrite sleeves, because a thick dielectric was impossible. There are limitations for how slow we can make the wave that change with antenna length, after which the antenna reverses. This is why most slinky Beverage theory put out was nonsense, because the real action isn't packing a wave of wire in a small areabut rather slowing the velocity factor a correct amount. I *think* the limit for a half wave structure is a Vp of about .5 before the system reverses and starts firing backwards, but it has been years since I looked at slow wave structures for 160. Velocity factor in this case is caused by the interaction of dielectric and electric field, specifically the increase in capacitance. The electric field is actually more concentrated between the two wires when voltages are out-of-phase, so the dielectric has more effect. When in parallel mode, more of the field is outside the line dielectric in air, although the field is more intense near the conductor. By the way, this is one of the rubs in making a Beverage really long. Is there really anyone actually using this stuff for reversible beverages on 160??? This stuff could make you plumb deaf on 160. I would avoid things that slow the wave in longer antennas. Phase is already bad enough in long low wires. A very thick dielectric certainly would not help as an antenna becomes longer. As it becomes longer, the arriving wave would be increasingly out-of-phase with current in the wire. But the primary velocity factor and loss effects are going to be in differential mode, where the field is most concentrated between conductors. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
From what I've read, the characteristics of WD-1x may vary quite a bit. It's interesting to read the results of the comparison that Herb did between some and open wire line back in 2008: http://lists.contesting.com/_topband/2008-12/msg00016.html From that link: In theory two parallel 600 foot Beverages even 65 feet apart should allow some additional enhancement if fed properly. Only if staggered to allow end-fire. The myth close-spaced Beverages (or any antenna) fed broadside have any advantage is easily debunked once we look at how and why antennas work for receiving. We have to approach 1/2-wave spacing broadside before pattern changes become worthwhile. End-fire allows close-spaced improvements, but not broadside. As for low velocity factor, I think maybe that can actually help you if you don't have room for a full-size Beverage. A reduced velocity factor can help, but it is very limited. Kraus covers this in Thin Linear Antennas near the end of the chapter. The problem is delay can tilt the pattern forward, but the effect is limited and can never align response with the antenna axis. For a half-wave, HPBW from a veloctiy factor of 1 is 60 degrees and 25 degrees off broadside. Slowing velocity to .6 changes HPBW from 60 degrees to 51 degrees, and makes the main lobe angle 40 degrees from broadside in a half-wave. I had some data when I worked with slow-wave structures, but the method paid such small rewards I abandoned it. Using a multiple small inductors in series works just as well as a helix, and can be mechanically superior. Shunt capacitance to ground would also work, which is really what the dielectric increases, but is very difficult to accomplish in any meaningful amount in real life on 160. All in all, it the insulation doesn't matter much in antenna mode. It matters far more in transmission line mode. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
There is an excellent article in the July/August 2012 issue of QEX describing how the author improved the performance of a Beverage by breaking it into two in-line segments coupled by a pair of conventional Beverage matching transformers. He also provides detailed construction information for a switched bidirectional Beverage that he built. This can be nothing but an end-fire antenna consisting of two elements. It is similar to the K9AY, EWE, Flag, and Pennant antennas, which are really nothing but the equivalent of two short verticals phased with end-fire phasing. The horizontal spatial conductor length serves as a phasing and transmission line connecting the vertical conductor lengths that serve as antennas. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
Frank, W3LPL recommends - Clothing can be purchased pretreated with Permethrin. Commercially treated clothing remains effective after dozens of washings. Look for the trademarks Insect Shield and Bug Shield in sporting goods stores or online: I have been having a terrible problem with ticks this year in Central NJ. In my yard I have found Bifenthrin works fantastic. You need a sprayer that attaches to a garden hose and sprays a big area. Never buy the stuff at Home Depot, etc unless you are wealthy. You will pay about 5% of the cost by buying mail order. Get the 7% solution, not 0.5 % like at HD. But this year I found any walk in my woods resulted in multiple ticks on me. The night I felt one crawling up my leg at 3 am was the end. I ordered the Permethrin product for clothes. $16 for 4 treatments, should be enough for a whole season. Since then I have not seen a tick ! One other poster reported that it may not be effective for deer ticks. That would be a disappointment, but it sure has worked on wood ticks for me. Those 2 products, plus Roundup, are indispensible. Always buy mail order, the savings is immense. Rick K2XT ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
Ticks are a part of life in this area also and not all are hazardous. The deer tick is the carrier of Lyme Disease in this part of New England but not all of them are infected. That ticks favorite host is mice and when their population is low, usually when winter kill is high, they go for deer. With such a mild winter the ticks were out in droves in the spring and it is the nymphs that are the most dangerous. After researching Permethrin last fall I decided I didnt want that stuff on my clothes or body and instead bought a concentrated 10% solution from a local feed and grain store that caters to the horsey set. With that diluted I then sprayed my usual paths out back to towers, storage sheds/trailers and Beverage runs as well as a fairly generalized spraying of the 3/4 or so acre I clearcut several years ago to promote wild blueberry, blackberry, and huckleberry growth. From a start of 6-8 ticks per outing before spraying this spring to zero the past few weeks plus the usual mortality rate Id say Ive got it under control but certainly not eliminated. I also keep up an aggressive mouse elimination campaign. The berry harvest has been extremely good this year which keeps several members of my extended family busy picking as much as they want with almost no ticks. I also wear light colored clothes to be able to easier see the ticks as well as a brimmed hat since they often drop from tree branches. From what Ive read it takes 24 or more hours for one to burrow into the blood so a shower should be mandatory well before that. Ive almost an acre of lawn around the house with very little shade and have had only one tick to remove this year. It is probably due to the low mice population as well as deer keeping their distance. There are also a lot of wild turkey roaming the yard which may be helping. Note that Im only referencing deer ticks and not those found elsewhere to carry various diseases. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: donov...@starpower.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas Bruce is correct that Beverage antenna installation and maintenance brings on the risk of life changing Lyme disease. Lyme disease is present in many areas of the world, but particularly in the non-arid areas of the United States, Canada and Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease Permethrin treated clothing (socks, pants and long sleeve shirt) is exceptionally effective at repelling ticks. http://sectionhiker.com/treating-your-clothes-with-permethrin Clothing can be purchased pretreated with Permethrin. Commercially treated clothing remains effective after dozens of washings. Look for the trademarks Insect Shield and Bug Shield in sporting goods stores or online: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8keywords=insect+shield+clothingtag=googhydr-20index=apparelhvadid=7552570997hvpos=1t1hvexid=hvnetw=ghvrand=6295266011507505301hvpone=hvptwo=hvqmt=eref=pd_sl_e41pllg51_e 73 Frank W3LPL Original message Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:56:54 -0700 From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net Subject: Topband: Beverage antennas To: topband@contesting.com Re Craig: There are no perfect solutions for Beverage wire and all have problems. One big factor in the Northeast is Limes Disease, spread by Deer ticks, from Deer, and a few other creatures. It becomes risky to your way of life to put too much time out on Beverages in wooded areas. We need good Beverage antennas, but also need good damage control clearance of the wires. Re Tom: An impedance error of 20 ohms on a 100 ohm line is as meaningful as an 80 ohm error on 400 ohm line Thanks Tom for clearing that up. I tried early Saturday morning, while very sleepy, to get this info out. A 680 ohm line Beverage with fence wire, the error ratio is even higher. (Wide spacing is more RF forgiving, in terms of inches, than close spaced lines). But we do need to be accurate. A few years ago I had customer reports, stating they had run their two wire, fence wire Beverages, fastened vertical with good results. At that time I switched a 300 foot horizontal run to vertical, and could not see any difference. Granted this was not an instant change A to B test, but it sure is an easier installation. I haven't seen anyone frequently transpose their two fence wire Beverages in my area, but may be a good idea. 73 Bruce ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5149 - Release Date: 07/23/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
Much of the outdoor wire dielectric won't change much with age. If you're looking at the really old rubber stuff you'll get a lot of change since that material degrades over time. The newer stuff tends to be polyethylene-based which holds up *very* well over time. The C Rural wire that's been discussed (looks like huge zip cord, CCS wires, etc.) I looked up -- it uses high-density polyethylene insulation. I would expect that that wire's insulation properties will change *very little* over time. I know we expect a useful life for polyethylene-jacked fiber optic cables of 20-30 years and I would expect that the C Rural wire would have similar expected useful life (and in practice it should last a lot longer than that). Note also that the spec for this wire is 14 or 12 gauge conductors (there are two options listed in General Cable's catalog), both are specced for 30% copper content. Also, someone on here had corrected me for talking about an older version of C Rural wire that was oval and used rubber insulation. I looked that up too (Drop Wire), and it is similar but definitely not the same (I've only run into it one or two times so I don't have as much experience with it), so I was mistaken referring to it as an older version of the C Rural wire. It is listed as 18.5 gauge CCS conductors and PVC insulation. It also lists 30% copper content in the conductors. I've only ever seen this in an old version that appeared to have rubber, rather than PVC, insulation. It lasts a long time but it's properties aren't as good for our antenna applications as the C Rural wire. Regarding the smell and curing over time: plastics should generally not cure over time. Some plastics (notably flexible PVC) tend to be modified with plasticizers to make them more flexible and those can migrate out over time. The result after aging is a stiffer, and more prone to cracking, cable. This isn't curing, it's just aging and is the primary reason why those types of cables have a much shorter useful life. Plastics like polyethylene are usually used in their natural state (which tends to result in stiffer cables), and they generally last much longer without noticeable degradation. The main enemy of polyethylene-jacketed cables is ultraviolet light which is why the cables are black (the black pigment is a UV inhibitor that protects the polymer in the cable jacket). I have some cables in our system at work that have been in the air, in full sun, for around 10-15 years now and the jacket gets a chalky look to it but is completely fine and even feels OK when subjected to the scratch it with your fingernail test. If you use the telco-type wire for your outdoor runs you'll be amazed how long it lasts. -Bill Yeah, so he says when the wire is new. There is an ASSUMPTION that stuff retains characteristic at RF over time when it was only designed for audio. Have you ever noticed how pungent that stuff smells when you first pull it off the roll. That stuff cures over time. Guys at Bell Labs had HUGE fields planted with thousands of telephone poles, different wood, different treatment, some in ground for decades and decades, TESTING real life deterioration. Some of that wire has been in the air since before I was born, carrying audio. That's what it was made for, tested for, certified for. Maybe if Herb still has it, he can run a test on the strung out, aged wire with a 450 ohm resistor on the far end of it, and get char impedance, loss and velocity factor numbers on it. It's been out there in the salt air for a while now. Herb??? ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
- Original Message - From: Bill Wichers bi...@waveform.net Also, someone on here had corrected me for talking about an older version of C Rural wire that was oval and used rubber insulation. I looked that up too (Drop Wire), and it is similar but definitely not the same (I've only run into it one or two times so I don't have as much experience with it), so I was mistaken referring to it as an older version of the C Rural wire. It is listed as 18.5 gauge CCS conductors and PVC insulation. It also lists 30% copper content in the conductors. I've only ever seen this in an old version that appeared to have rubber, rather than PVC, insulation. It lasts a long time but it's properties aren't as good for our antenna applications as the C Rural wire. ** That answers one of lifes great mysteries. I had a large wood partial reel of that stuff that defied my digital calipers to size it. It was given to me about 20 years ago from a guy that cleans out basements, garages, etc and it was pretty old then. Thats the rubber and cloth wire I mentioned several days ago. For the past 2 1/2 years 900' has been in use as a convential 2 wire reversible Beverage and another 500' as a BOG and both are still doing well. Carl KM1H ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Beverage antennas
Re Craig: There are no perfect solutions for Beverage wire and all have problems. One big factor in the Northeast is Limes Disease, spread by Deer ticks, from Deer, and a few other creatures. It becomes risky to your way of life to put too much time out on Beverages in wooded areas. We need good Beverage antennas, but also need good damage control clearance of the wires. Re Tom: An impedance error of 20 ohms on a 100 ohm line is as meaningful as an 80 ohm error on 400 ohm line Thanks Tom for clearing that up. I tried early Saturday morning, while very sleepy, to get this info out. A 680 ohm line Beverage with fence wire, the error ratio is even higher. (Wide spacing is more RF forgiving, in terms of inches, than close spaced lines). But we do need to be accurate. A few years ago I had customer reports, stating they had run their two wire, fence wire Beverages, fastened vertical with good results. At that time I switched a 300 foot horizontal run to vertical, and could not see any difference. Granted this was not an instant change A to B test, but it sure is an easier installation. I haven't seen anyone frequently transpose their two fence wire Beverages in my area, but may be a good idea. 73 Bruce ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
And out here in the ARID areas of the US, Beverage antenna installation and maintenance brings on the risk of life changing encounters with rattle snakes and Gila Monsters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gila_monster . I have seen a LOT of them in my life along the Gila River. There is no free lunch. No place is perfect, but many are close to it. To each his own. My WD-1A doesn’t rust through, but there is very little moisture to precipitate rusting of anything. Mis dos centavos. de Milt, N5IA -Original Message- From: donov...@starpower.net Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 11:17 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas Bruce is correct that Beverage antenna installation and maintenance brings on the risk of life changing Lyme disease. Lyme disease is present in many areas of the world, but particularly in the non-arid areas of the United States, Canada and Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
Remember the old movie Tales of the Sierra Madre were Arthur Brennen warned Boggy not to put his hand under the rock cause there is a Gila Monster there? Herb, KV4FZ Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Milt -- N5IA n...@zia-connection.com Sender: topband-boun...@contesting.com Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 11:39:00 To: donov...@starpower.net; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas And out here in the ARID areas of the US, Beverage antenna installation and maintenance brings on the risk of life changing encounters with rattle snakes and Gila Monsters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gila_monster . I have seen a LOT of them in my life along the Gila River. There is no free lunch. No place is perfect, but many are close to it. To each his own. My WD-1A doesn’t rust through, but there is very little moisture to precipitate rusting of anything. Mis dos centavos. de Milt, N5IA -Original Message- From: donov...@starpower.net Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 11:17 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas Bruce is correct that Beverage antenna installation and maintenance brings on the risk of life changing Lyme disease. Lyme disease is present in many areas of the world, but particularly in the non-arid areas of the United States, Canada and Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
Sounds like a version of Lyme disease, Tom. Sorry to hear this. Brian K3USC On Jul 23, 2012, at 4:04 PM, Tom W8JI wrote: Ticks carry many things, some that doctors are not familiar with. Installing antennas in the woods here in Georgia, I contracted Ehrlichiosis from a Lone-star tick. I was very ill, like having the flu with severe joint pain. It had a few long term effects that I still occasionally fight, over ten years later. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas - Ticks
Tom is correct. Ticks carry many bad blood bugs, both virus and bacteria. Here in buggy North Florida tick fevor is very common and it is not Lymes disease. Mountain tick fever, Texas tick fever, Southeast tick fever, the list goes on... Ticks are also the vector for spreading deadly Cytauxzoonosis to domestic cats in North Florida sourced from wild Bobcats to deer... Terry K4RX -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:04 PM To: donov...@starpower.net; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antennas Ticks carry many things, some that doctors are not familiar with. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Beverage antennas and Ticks
Bet there are many tick stories in the DX group. I was on active duty at Fort Sill, Oklahoma in 1957 and while I was shaving in the BOQ latrine one of the guys noticed a tick on my back. They burned it out with a cigarette. Had to go to early sick bay many days after, receiving many penicillin shots, but never missed duty. Used to operate K5USA in the evenings on CW except 10 meters as it bothered the base commanders TV. Bottom line-Ticks are really bad news. They can screw your life right off track. 73 Bruce-K1FZ Mountain tick fever, Texas tick fever, Southeast tick fever, the list goes on... Terry K4RX Ticks carry many things, some that doctors are not familiar with. Tom. __ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
- Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antennas Re Tom: An impedance error of 20 ohms on a 100 ohm line is as meaningful as an 80 ohm error on 400 ohm line Thanks Tom for clearing that up. I tried early Saturday morning, while very sleepy, to get this info out. A 680 ohm line Beverage with fence wire, the error ratio is even higher. (Wide spacing is more RF forgiving, in terms of inches, than close spaced lines). But we do need to be accurate. ** Wide spacing is also more prone to unbalance wheras close spacing and twisting promotes good balance. A few years ago I had customer reports, stating they had run their two wire, fence wire Beverages, fastened vertical with good results. At that time I switched a 300 foot horizontal run to vertical, and could not see any difference. Granted this was not an instant change A to B test, but it sure is an easier installation. I haven't seen anyone frequently transpose their two fence wire Beverages in my area, but may be a good idea. 73 Bruce ** That barely qualifies as a subjective test and 300' for Topband isnt that directive/effective to start with.Try it at 1 wavelength or more in a controlled test. Carl KM1H No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5149 - Release Date: 07/23/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage antennas
What may be more destructive is a slow velocity factor in the insulated wire. There is no way to estimate that, you just have to measure it. If the VF is low, then you get into the same kind of problems as one has in designing BOG's (beverage on ground), where the signal already on the wire is moving much slower than the signal in the air, just about to induce the wire. Telco C wire was not designed with anything RF in mind. The dielectric might be something exotic specifically designed for long life, and a VF slow as molasses. 73, Guy. On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:32 PM, ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antennas Re Tom: An impedance error of 20 ohms on a 100 ohm line is as meaningful as an 80 ohm error on 400 ohm line Thanks Tom for clearing that up. I tried early Saturday morning, while very sleepy, to get this info out. A 680 ohm line Beverage with fence wire, the error ratio is even higher. (Wide spacing is more RF forgiving, in terms of inches, than close spaced lines). But we do need to be accurate. ** Wide spacing is also more prone to unbalance wheras close spacing and twisting promotes good balance. A few years ago I had customer reports, stating they had run their two wire, fence wire Beverages, fastened vertical with good results. At that time I switched a 300 foot horizontal run to vertical, and could not see any difference. Granted this was not an instant change A to B test, but it sure is an easier installation. I haven't seen anyone frequently transpose their two fence wire Beverages in my area, but may be a good idea. 73 Bruce ** That barely qualifies as a subjective test and 300' for Topband isnt that directive/effective to start with.Try it at 1 wavelength or more in a controlled test. Carl KM1H No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5149 - Release Date: 07/23/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Beverage Antennas Trees
I am preparing to install a reversible Beverage antenna, using 450 Ohm ladderline. All of the components are from DX Engineering. The maximum length I could fit on my property was 480ft. This would be the first of my receive antennas for my first venture into 160 and 80M. Here is my concern. To fit an antenna of that length, oriented in a N-E or S-W direction, it will have to go through a think grove of trees (many are over 75ft high) and an even thicker underbrush of younger trees and junk growth. Despite all of the trees, I think I can keep it pretty much in a straight line. How significant will the attenuation be caused by all of the branches and leaves? Thanks for your help to a newcomer to your band. Wayne, KK6BT ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas Trees
Wayne, That's what mine does with the same components. Works fine. Les W2LK On 6/18/2012 2:45 PM, Wayne Willenberg wrote: I am preparing to install a reversible Beverage antenna, using 450 Ohm ladderline. All of the components are from DX Engineering. The maximum length I could fit on my property was 480ft. This would be the first of my receive antennas for my first venture into 160 and 80M. Here is my concern. To fit an antenna of that length, oriented in a N-E or S-W direction, it will have to go through a think grove of trees (many are over 75ft high) and an even thicker underbrush of younger trees and junk growth. Despite all of the trees, I think I can keep it pretty much in a straight line. How significant will the attenuation be caused by all of the branches and leaves? Thanks for your help to a newcomer to your band. Wayne, KK6BT ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas Trees
Mine are installed thru the woods and I spent considerable time trimming out low growth plus interfering branches. The path doesnt deviate over a feet in order to pass to the side of trees and I had to reroute a few when I discovered my eyeball and compass werent in agreement! Nobody ever said it was easy but the end results are good with excellent patterns and noise reduction. The 2 wire reversible Beverages are mounted to trees using electric fence insulators found locally in bags of 25 at a feed and grain/pets/horsey set shop. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Wayne Willenberg wewill...@gmail.com To: Topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 2:45 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage Antennas Trees I am preparing to install a reversible Beverage antenna, using 450 Ohm ladderline. All of the components are from DX Engineering. The maximum length I could fit on my property was 480ft. This would be the first of my receive antennas for my first venture into 160 and 80M. Here is my concern. To fit an antenna of that length, oriented in a N-E or S-W direction, it will have to go through a think grove of trees (many are over 75ft high) and an even thicker underbrush of younger trees and junk growth. Despite all of the trees, I think I can keep it pretty much in a straight line. How significant will the attenuation be caused by all of the branches and leaves? Thanks for your help to a newcomer to your band. Wayne, KK6BT ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5081 - Release Date: 06/20/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas Trees
On 6/20/2012 9:40 AM, ZR wrote: Mine are installed thru the woods and I spent considerable time trimming out low growth plus interfering branches. Mine are also DXE twinlead in a dense redwood forest with rather irregular terrain, and go through a lot of brush and scrub trees. When I installed them about five years ago, I used electric fence post stand-offs on trees, but after a few years most had fallen off or the twinlead had separated from the standoff. For several years, my Beverages have been supported by the brush and branches of low trees. They work. A year or so ago, I helped string a single wire Beverage along a dirt road in Bonnaire, again supporting it on the scrub trees and brush. it worked fine. Bottom line -- Beverages don't have to be ideal to work. What DOES matter is keeping common mode noise out of it, and also off of the feedline. That means a decent transformer and ferrite chokes formed by winding at least 14 turns of the coax around a #31 toroid. 73, Jim K9YC ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas Trees
I agree with Jim. Beverages don't have to be ideal to work very well indeed, thank you. It's the matching transformers (and maybe their grounds) that are a more important thing to worry about. You need not worry that trees and bushes will attenuate the signal at HF. Lots of people have installed them in deep woods. If you installed two identical, separate Beverages pointed in the same direction --one in the woods and one in the clear-- I doubt if you would be able to tell any difference between the way they work. My Beverages run through the woods for a portion of their length, and they work fine. Although I don't have any leaves or other foliage actually touching my Beverage's bare open-wire line, there are plenty of places where the antenna runs past them. And one of them is supported by tree trunks for about half of its length. 73, Mike http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.comwrote: Mine ... through a lot of brush and scrub trees. ... Bottom line -- Beverages don't have to be ideal to work. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas Trees
- Original Message - From: Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com To: topband topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antennas Trees I agree with Jim. Beverages don't have to be ideal to work very well indeed, thank you. It's the matching transformers (and maybe their grounds) that are a more important thing to worry about. Since work very well is entirely subjective it means little unless there is an ideal benchmark to compare against. Yes, Ive stressed the transformer design and construction to you several times on here and elsewhere. That and isolated grounds and common mode rejection will allow digging to a new layer of DX. You need not worry that trees and bushes will attenuate the signal at HF. Lots of people have installed them in deep woods. If you installed two identical, separate Beverages pointed in the same direction --one in the woods and one in the clear-- I doubt if you would be able to tell any difference between the way they work. How do you know any of the above without fully testing? It only makes good sense to at least assume that a wire touching branches and low brush during full sap season that will also be rained on often in many parts of the world will have many impedance discontinuities that when added up will likely have a negative effect. I walk mine several times a year trimming off wandering growths that have touched the insulated wire of my Beverages, it seems to me to be smart PM. This year in particular and due to the warm winter I have a jungle type explosion of growth from bushes, small pine trees, nasty stuff with thorns and creeper things. I prefer to keep them far away thank you and its a cost free exercise. My Beverages run through the woods for a portion of their length, and they work fine. Although I don't have any leaves or other foliage actually touching my Beverage's bare open-wire line, there are plenty of places where the antenna runs past them. And one of them is supported by tree trunks for about half of its length. Since I rebuilt all mine are now 100% in the woods and well removed from verticals and radials. Local digital, switchers, and other crud noise has also been reduced but I have no idea what re-radiation has in thepast or is affecting now. Carl KM1H 73, Mike http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.comwrote: Mine ... through a lot of brush and scrub trees. ... Bottom line -- Beverages don't have to be ideal to work. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5081 - Release Date: 06/20/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: beverage antennas
Hi all.. Iam getting ready to put up a bunch of beverage antennas.. I was told that I could use electric fence wire for them.. any suggestions on this? 73, Fred N2FJ Me three! I use 1.6mm electric fence wire for both of my 190m long bi-directional beverages. I made them into 400 ohm line with spacers made out of poly pipe, sliced down the middle, drilled 4 holes and nicked the holes with a knife. Very cheap. The hard part was installing them. Took me 4 full days to get 'em done. Just magic what I can hear now on 160, 80 and 40m Even used them on 136 KHz. Also when you grab your rolls of wire get your wire stand offs while you are there. Matt. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: beverage antennas
Hi all.. Iam getting ready to put up a bunch of beverage antennas.. I was told that I could use electric fence wire for them.. any suggestions on this? 73, Fred N2FJ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: beverage antennas
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Fred Bennett n...@n2fj.com wrote: Hi all.. Iam getting ready to put up a bunch of beverage antennas.. I was told that I could use electric fence wire for them.. any suggestions on this? 73, Fred N2FJ Hello Fred, Absolutely you can! Earl, K6SE (SK) swore by it. I have two bi-directional Beverages made from that stuff, which are described in detail at http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html. 73 Mike www.w0btu.com ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
