Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Rick, Thanks for the detective work! What is the recommended frequency on 80 meters for beacon operation? I could not find it on any bandplan. http://www.hamuniverse.com/arrlbandplan.html Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: Bill Aycock billayc...@centurytel.net To: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com, Rick n...@triad.rr.com, topband@contesting.com Sent: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 04:07:04 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW You think the frequency selection is stupid? Take a look at their objective. --Super Slow CW. 10 hours for a QSO. A QLF contest has more Pizazz and makes more sense. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Tom W8JI Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:32 PM To: Rick ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW What a stupid frequency for a test beacon of any type! - Original Message - From: Rick n...@triad.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:57 PM Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Good evening all, Hate to burst the theories, but it appears the carrier on 3501.6 MHz is a QRSS beacon operated by W4HBK. I used Spectrum Lab and selected the 1-second dit in the Quick Settings tab, Slow Morse Reception (QRSS) menu selection. The carrier drops about 6 Hz from the space to the mark and decode with the eye. Inter-character spacing is a dit, intra character spacing is a dah both are on the space, or higher tone. Idle period is also the space tone. I dropped W4HBK an e-mail to get further information on this beacon ... he is also operating a QRSS beacon on 30 meters. His reply was: Hi, Rick. Tnx for the report. I am using an eight second dot period and transmitting on a frequency of 3500.8 with a frequency shift of 5 Hz. You can see details of my mept at my blog: http://pensacolasnapper.blogspot.com/2011/07/my-new-dds-mept.html It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from W8DIZ. Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical. 73 bill w4hbk Oh, his QTH is Gulf Breeze FL, near Pensacola. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. 73 Rick NM3G _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
What a stupid frequency for a test beacon of any type! - Original Message - From: Rick n...@triad.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:57 PM Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Good evening all, Hate to burst the theories, but it appears the carrier on 3501.6 MHz is a QRSS beacon operated by W4HBK. I used Spectrum Lab and selected the 1-second dit in the Quick Settings tab, Slow Morse Reception (QRSS) menu selection. The carrier drops about 6 Hz from the space to the mark and decode with the eye. Inter-character spacing is a dit, intra character spacing is a dah both are on the space, or higher tone. Idle period is also the space tone. I dropped W4HBK an e-mail to get further information on this beacon ... he is also operating a QRSS beacon on 30 meters. His reply was: Hi, Rick. Tnx for the report. I am using an eight second dot period and transmitting on a frequency of 3500.8 with a frequency shift of 5 Hz. You can see details of my mept at my blog: http://pensacolasnapper.blogspot.com/2011/07/my-new-dds-mept.html It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from W8DIZ. Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical. 73 bill w4hbk Oh, his QTH is Gulf Breeze FL, near Pensacola. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. 73 Rick NM3G _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6767 - Release Date: 10/20/13 _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Amen!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:33 PM To: Rick; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW What a stupid frequency for a test beacon of any type! - Original Message - From: Rick n...@triad.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:57 PM Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Good evening all, Hate to burst the theories, but it appears the carrier on 3501.6 MHz is a QRSS beacon operated by W4HBK. I used Spectrum Lab and selected the 1-second dit in the Quick Settings tab, Slow Morse Reception (QRSS) menu selection. The carrier drops about 6 Hz from the space to the mark and decode with the eye. Inter-character spacing is a dit, intra character spacing is a dah both are on the space, or higher tone. Idle period is also the space tone. I dropped W4HBK an e-mail to get further information on this beacon ... he is also operating a QRSS beacon on 30 meters. His reply was: Hi, Rick. Tnx for the report. I am using an eight second dot period and transmitting on a frequency of 3500.8 with a frequency shift of 5 Hz. You can see details of my mept at my blog: http://pensacolasnapper.blogspot.com/2011/07/my-new-dds-mept.html It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from W8DIZ. Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical. 73 bill w4hbk Oh, his QTH is Gulf Breeze FL, near Pensacola. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. 73 Rick NM3G _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6767 - Release Date: 10/20/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
You think the frequency selection is stupid? Take a look at their objective. --Super Slow CW. 10 hours for a QSO. A QLF contest has more Pizazz and makes more sense. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Tom W8JI Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:32 PM To: Rick ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW What a stupid frequency for a test beacon of any type! - Original Message - From: Rick n...@triad.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:57 PM Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Good evening all, Hate to burst the theories, but it appears the carrier on 3501.6 MHz is a QRSS beacon operated by W4HBK. I used Spectrum Lab and selected the 1-second dit in the Quick Settings tab, Slow Morse Reception (QRSS) menu selection. The carrier drops about 6 Hz from the space to the mark and decode with the eye. Inter-character spacing is a dit, intra character spacing is a dah both are on the space, or higher tone. Idle period is also the space tone. I dropped W4HBK an e-mail to get further information on this beacon ... he is also operating a QRSS beacon on 30 meters. His reply was: Hi, Rick. Tnx for the report. I am using an eight second dot period and transmitting on a frequency of 3500.8 with a frequency shift of 5 Hz. You can see details of my mept at my blog: http://pensacolasnapper.blogspot.com/2011/07/my-new-dds-mept.html It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from W8DIZ. Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical. 73 bill w4hbk Oh, his QTH is Gulf Breeze FL, near Pensacola. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. 73 Rick NM3G _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6767 - Release Date: 10/20/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
If anyone has a clear shot, take it. At the transmitter that is. - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Tom W8JI' w...@w8ji.com; 'Rick' n...@triad.rr.com; topband@contesting.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:40 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Amen!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:33 PM To: Rick; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW What a stupid frequency for a test beacon of any type! - Original Message - From: Rick n...@triad.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:57 PM Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Good evening all, Hate to burst the theories, but it appears the carrier on 3501.6 MHz is a QRSS beacon operated by W4HBK. I used Spectrum Lab and selected the 1-second dit in the Quick Settings tab, Slow Morse Reception (QRSS) menu selection. The carrier drops about 6 Hz from the space to the mark and decode with the eye. Inter-character spacing is a dit, intra character spacing is a dah both are on the space, or higher tone. Idle period is also the space tone. I dropped W4HBK an e-mail to get further information on this beacon ... he is also operating a QRSS beacon on 30 meters. His reply was: Hi, Rick. Tnx for the report. I am using an eight second dot period and transmitting on a frequency of 3500.8 with a frequency shift of 5 Hz. You can see details of my mept at my blog: http://pensacolasnapper.blogspot.com/2011/07/my-new-dds-mept.html It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from W8DIZ. Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical. 73 bill w4hbk Oh, his QTH is Gulf Breeze FL, near Pensacola. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. 73 Rick NM3G _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6767 - Release Date: 10/20/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Alright everyone Let's not use words like stupid here - and certainly not suggest using guns. This is the gentleman's band. Education is the way to fix this - not calling names. Tree On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Hardy Landskov n...@cox.net wrote: If anyone has a clear shot, take it. At the transmitter that is. - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Tom W8JI' w...@w8ji.com; 'Rick' n...@triad.rr.com; topband@contesting.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:40 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Amen!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:33 PM To: Rick; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW What a stupid frequency for a test beacon of any type! - Original Message - From: Rick n...@triad.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:57 PM Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Good evening all, Hate to burst the theories, but it appears the carrier on 3501.6 MHz is a QRSS beacon operated by W4HBK. I used Spectrum Lab and selected the 1-second dit in the Quick Settings tab, Slow Morse Reception (QRSS) menu selection. The carrier drops about 6 Hz from the space to the mark and decode with the eye. Inter-character spacing is a dit, intra character spacing is a dah both are on the space, or higher tone. Idle period is also the space tone. I dropped W4HBK an e-mail to get further information on this beacon ... he is also operating a QRSS beacon on 30 meters. His reply was: Hi, Rick. Tnx for the report. I am using an eight second dot period and transmitting on a frequency of 3500.8 with a frequency shift of 5 Hz. You can see details of my mept at my blog: http://pensacolasnapper.blogspot.com/2011/07/my-new-dds-mept.html It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from W8DIZ. Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical. 73 bill w4hbk Oh, his QTH is Gulf Breeze FL, near Pensacola. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. 73 Rick NM3G _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6767 - Release Date: 10/20/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
For what it's worth, considering the fine DF work done, I don't think the QRSS station was the offender. It seems like it was probably in Georgia, south of Savannah. Just guessing. Bill--W4BSG _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Hi Rick, The beacon that you mention (what I assume I'm hearing around 3.500.9 this morning between 1130 to 1200 UTC) is on a lower frequency (approximately 0.9 Khz lower) than what I was previously hearing, it's much weaker than what I had been hearing, and it's heading is much different from my previous measurements. Using my 3 pennants I would say the signal from what I assume is the w4hbk beacon is a little West Of South from my location (my first estimate this morning put it around 190 degrees, and QRZ.com says w4hbk is 186 degrees from my location), and this is much different than my previous measurements that typically were from 128 to 140 degrees and 150 degrees at the most) Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Hi all, Just curious: How come that people operate Ham beacons in a bandsegment that we have agreed to be used for DX traffic only? What is the purpose? 73 Len SM7BIC The beacon that you mention (what I assume I'm hearing around 3.500.9 this morning between 1130 to 1200 UTC) is on a lower frequency (approximately 0.9 Khz lower) than what I was previously hearing, it's much weaker than what I had been hearing, and it's heading is much different from my previous measurements. Using my 3 pennants I would say the signal from what I assume is the w4hbk beacon is a little West Of South from my location (my first estimate this morning put it around 190 degrees, and QRZ.com says w4hbk is 186 degrees from my location), and this is much different than my previous measurements that typically were from 128 to 140 degrees and 150 degrees at the most) Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Rick and gang, as a follow up I just contacted Bill (w4hbk) via e-mail, and the QRSS beacon that you mentioned above was definitely not the signal we were tracking last week. Bill said the following today via e-mail. I was running 1W to a 43' vertical on a frequency of 3500.81. One Watt is considered the legal limit in QRSS work and is generally used on the lower bands for trans-oceanic tests. The past two nights were my first tests this Fall and I was definitely not on last week. 73, Don (wd8dsb) _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from W8DIZ. Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical. If the QRSS station is operated at the FCC-licensed address, that places his QTH on a narrow peninsula on the Gulf of Mexico. In one direction, it's about 700 ft from saltwater. Although the saltwater effect diminishes rapidly as the distance increases over land, he has an exceptionally good QTH. Depending on conductivity, the field strength produced by 1W into a vertical could well be comparable to 100W over average soil. As a courtesy to others, the transmit geography and band segment should be taken into consideration when operating a beacon. The signal level of the stronger beacon due-east here in Jacksonville, FL has been -60 dBm (+20dB/S9) on a simple 80m dipole. Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I was going to make the same comment. I would think that very high in the band, above 3575, would make a LOT more sense. On 11/8/2013 7:22 AM, Lennart Michaelsson wrote: Hi all, Just curious: How come that people operate Ham beacons in a bandsegment that we have agreed to be used for DX traffic only? What is the purpose? 73 Len SM7BIC The beacon that you mention (what I assume I'm hearing around 3.500.9 this morning between 1130 to 1200 UTC) is on a lower frequency (approximately 0.9 Khz lower) than what I was previously hearing, it's much weaker than what I had been hearing, and it's heading is much different from my previous measurements. Using my 3 pennants I would say the signal from what I assume is the w4hbk beacon is a little West Of South from my location (my first estimate this morning put it around 190 degrees, and QRZ.com says w4hbk is 186 degrees from my location), and this is much different than my previous measurements that typically were from 128 to 140 degrees and 150 degrees at the most) Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector -- 73, Gary K9GS Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I would think that very high in the band, above 3575, would make a LOT more sense. No - above 3600. 3570-3600 is packed full of digital/RTTY operations. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/8/2013 10:37 PM, Gary K9GS wrote: I was going to make the same comment. I would think that very high in the band, above 3575, would make a LOT more sense. On 11/8/2013 7:22 AM, Lennart Michaelsson wrote: Hi all, Just curious: How come that people operate Ham beacons in a bandsegment that we have agreed to be used for DX traffic only? What is the purpose? 73 Len SM7BIC The beacon that you mention (what I assume I'm hearing around 3.500.9 this morning between 1130 to 1200 UTC) is on a lower frequency (approximately 0.9 Khz lower) than what I was previously hearing, it's much weaker than what I had been hearing, and it's heading is much different from my previous measurements. Using my 3 pennants I would say the signal from what I assume is the w4hbk beacon is a little West Of South from my location (my first estimate this morning put it around 190 degrees, and QRZ.com says w4hbk is 186 degrees from my location), and this is much different than my previous measurements that typically were from 128 to 140 degrees and 150 degrees at the most) Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
They just went away.? Now what the heck are we going to do for fun, operate the silly radios on the quiet band? K2XT _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Maybe they caught all the fish they could hold and headed to port to offload their catch! :-) K4OT V -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stealey Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:32 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW They just went away.? Now what the heck are we going to do for fun, operate the silly radios on the quiet band? K2XT _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Delete! _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I have a Hi-Z RX 4sq system with 0 degrees at due north. At 0205Z today (2Nov) the signal was about S7 NE and S6 SE. With QSB the SE signal would almost equal the NE direction, but never louder. I have been listening on and off since then, its now 0820Z, signals are weaker but the NE directions is slightly louder. I do not know how to interpret the signal direction, but my guess would be slightly north of east from here??? My QTH is 15 miles north of Prescott, AZ, 34 44.390 N by 112 29.049 W. Ray, N6VR Chino Valley, AZ On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: This is looking like somewhere near the Florida/Georgia border, Jacksonville, Fl to Brunswick, Ga area. The wave angle here at 0700Z is pretty high, so that makes it either a high angle radiator with multiple hops or fairly close (but far beyond groundwave). This makes it difficult to be exact on heading, but a reading just now still runs in a line from my house crossing somewhat north of Brunswick, GA to maybe as high as Blackbeard Island. (My mapping ability is limited, so I am just eyeballing this.) I'm reading about 2 degrees more north of what I was earlier, now centered on about 128 degrees, again with tolerance of several degrees because of wave angle and constant changing of the path. This is difficult to read accurately because heading moves around. I will see how it is around noon. I'm pretty sure it will be readable in daylight. One possibility is a Ham who works CW and has accidentally left his rig locked on. The abrupt disappearance around sunset was interesting. Someone flip a switch off for a while? I'm suspecting this is a Ham mistake. _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I thought I read here in earlier posts it went from CW dead carrier to rTty for a while tho? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 3, 2013, at 2:46 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: This is looking like somewhere near the Florida/Georgia border, Jacksonville, Fl to Brunswick, Ga area. The wave angle here at 0700Z is pretty high, so that makes it either a high angle radiator with multiple hops or fairly close (but far beyond groundwave). This makes it difficult to be exact on heading, but a reading just now still runs in a line from my house crossing somewhat north of Brunswick, GA to maybe as high as Blackbeard Island. (My mapping ability is limited, so I am just eyeballing this.) I'm reading about 2 degrees more north of what I was earlier, now centered on about 128 degrees, again with tolerance of several degrees because of wave angle and constant changing of the path. This is difficult to read accurately because heading moves around. I will see how it is around noon. I'm pretty sure it will be readable in daylight. One possibility is a Ham who works CW and has accidentally left his rig locked on. The abrupt disappearance around sunset was interesting. Someone flip a switch off for a while? I'm suspecting this is a Ham mistake. _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Hi Steve, Yes, tonight at 0230z I rx'd for 3500.85 carrier and it is there at s-5. I did not rx last night for it. The peak is very noticeable, and the null of the back of the beam is equally clear. I also notice a sudden qrg shift sporadically. Your bearing is at 340 and mine in Calgary at 250 puts the source very broadly in Washington State?? This is very strange. Now we have a west coast carrier interloper?? 3501.6 is gone tonight. 3,500.845- 250 deg (SW) 3,501.6- Gone here tonight no signal 3,503.15- no carrier 73, de steve ve6wz -- From: Steve Flood kk...@bresnan.net Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 3:50 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW but then at times the signal is briefly the same between the 160 and 300 degree pennant This is difficult to read accurately because heading moves around. Observing the same character here. With several daytime and nighttime readings, I can only best guess the following from DN36. 3500.845 is at 320 - 340 degrees 3501.580 is at 100 - 120 degrees 3503.150 is at 100 -120 degrees. Another thing, each will occasionally (and randomly) have a sudden 10Hz or so shift for a few seconds. VE6WZ - - do you have the 3500.845 carrier??? Steve, KK7UV _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6 directions). We need some directions from Florida stations. 73, Paul K5ESW _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Paul and Gang, Based on Pauls heading and a few other headings that intersect Pauls heading, it looks like the signal is originating from the lower half of NC, or the NE part of SC that touches NC. Hard to describe, but an area like Fayetteville NC to the North, Wilmington NC to the South East, and Myrtle Beach SC to the South (maybe as far South as Georgetown or Charleston SC if I stretch things a bit). Still need a few more data points, but the above describes the general area unless it is out in the ocean. Lots of headings that don't intersect Pauls heading which I had to ignore. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Paul Ferguson p...@paulferguson.us wrote: It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6 directions). We need some directions from Florida stations. 73, Paul K5ESW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Well, most all the guys in New England see it peaking pretty much due south - which suggests that the origin is off-shore in the Atlantic, rather than on shore in the Carolinas. (Maybe from the Bermuda Triangle? :-)) How long have you had that Hi-Z 3-element receive array, Paul? Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 7:40 AM To: p...@paulferguson.us Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Paul and Gang, Based on Pauls heading and a few other headings that intersect Pauls heading, it looks like the signal is originating from the lower half of NC, or the NE part of SC that touches NC. Hard to describe, but an area like Fayetteville NC to the North, Wilmington NC to the South East, and Myrtle Beach SC to the South (maybe as far South as Georgetown or Charleston SC if I stretch things a bit). Still need a few more data points, but the above describes the general area unless it is out in the ocean. Lots of headings that don't intersect Pauls heading which I had to ignore. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Paul Ferguson p...@paulferguson.us wrote: It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6 directions). We need some directions from Florida stations. 73, Paul K5ESW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
A rough azimuth from W4ZV in NC would be helpful , and from Florida - Original Message - From: Don Kirk wd8...@gmail.com To: p...@paulferguson.us Cc: topband topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 11:39:56 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Paul and Gang, Based on Pauls heading and a few other headings that intersect Pauls heading, it looks like the signal is originating from the lower half of NC, or the NE part of SC that touches NC. Hard to describe, but an area like Fayetteville NC to the North, Wilmington NC to the South East, and Myrtle Beach SC to the South (maybe as far South as Georgetown or Charleston SC if I stretch things a bit). Still need a few more data points, but the above describes the general area unless it is out in the ocean. Lots of headings that don't intersect Pauls heading which I had to ignore. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Paul Ferguson p...@paulferguson.us wrote: It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6 directions). We need some directions from Florida stations. 73, Paul K5ESW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I think I can do a little better on estimating the direction (better than SE which I gave earlier). I can get two 30 dB nulls out of my receiving antenna by switching directions. Those nulls appear at 145 and 133 degrees. Pointed SW the signal is S9 this morning. In the null at 133 degrees the signal is S0 and not audiable. The signal is considerably stronger at the 145 degree null. So my best guess is 133 degrees from Decatur, Alabama (north central Alabama). Oh! As I was typing this, at 1353 UTC the signal on 3501.6 abruptly stopped. It was still at S9 just before it stopped. Then at 1355 UTC it came back but with RTTY for about 15 or 20 seconds, and then back into its continuous unmodulated carrier mode at S9. The RTTY burst was too fast for me to boot an RTTY decoder to see if I could copy anything. I suspect this is not an unintentional radiator. There is very little QSB on this signal. I was waiting to see if the signal amplitude was going to go down after sunrise. At 2 hours after sunrise it's starting to show signs of QSB. It went down to S4 but now its back up to S8. Now at 3 hours after sunrise it's S7 with QSB on my vertical, but only about S1 on my low dipole. A line of 133 degrees from my location goes thru Jacksonville, Fl and also thru that long chain of islands, Nassau Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and Haiti and Dominican Republic. Most of Cuba would hit my 145 degree null, but Guantanamo is close enough to be a candidate (with a little measurement error). A measurement from Florida would be interesting. Jerry, K4SAV _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I'm mapping the data, but nothing to hang my hat on at this time. The data from Steve (KK7UV) does not intersect any of the other reports (odd). A heading from W8JI or AA1K would be very helpful. Don (wd8dsb) If you guys will remember from a year ago, Don is the man who pinpoints these sources, if given a few more, reliable, data points. What is needed are reports from directional loops. 2-3 feet in diameter are fine for getting a sharp null, of a few degrees. This is much, much better data than from Beverages, etc. I built a loop with $5 worth of pvc pipe, and a bcb variable capacitor, and it took about an hour to glue together. I'm only hearing it S3 here in NJ at 10 am with a dipole, so doubt that my loop is going to hear it in daytime. Don - if it's in the direction you indicated (128 degrees) that puts in at the southern tip of WV or center of NC. Doubtful that any weak source is going to be audible to me this time of day from there. I'll do my best to get a bearing on it tonight if it gets louder. Rick K2xt _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
That's good information, Jerry! What we need, rather than relying on antenna patterns for direction, is direct phase measurement between a pair of vertical elements - with a third element (or a pair) to resolve F/B ambiguity) if well calibrated , such an array can be quite good for direction-finding measurements -but a good bit of engineering is required to do the phase measurement. I worked on an array like that for VHF marine radio years ago - worked quite well -mounted on boats and Coast Guard cutters. Then what we would need to pin down the origin would be at least 2-3 of such arrays at more or less right angles to the source for good triangulation. When I'm not so busy, perhaps I can do some design work on the phase measurement. Best approach is a system that commutates digitally between the antennas to compare phase. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of K4SAV Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 10:53 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I think I can do a little better on estimating the direction (better than SE which I gave earlier). I can get two 30 dB nulls out of my receiving antenna by switching directions. Those nulls appear at 145 and 133 degrees. Pointed SW the signal is S9 this morning. In the null at 133 degrees the signal is S0 and not audiable. The signal is considerably stronger at the 145 degree null. So my best guess is 133 degrees from Decatur, Alabama (north central Alabama). Oh! As I was typing this, at 1353 UTC the signal on 3501.6 abruptly stopped. It was still at S9 just before it stopped. Then at 1355 UTC it came back but with RTTY for about 15 or 20 seconds, and then back into its continuous unmodulated carrier mode at S9. The RTTY burst was too fast for me to boot an RTTY decoder to see if I could copy anything. I suspect this is not an unintentional radiator. There is very little QSB on this signal. I was waiting to see if the signal amplitude was going to go down after sunrise. At 2 hours after sunrise it's starting to show signs of QSB. It went down to S4 but now its back up to S8. Now at 3 hours after sunrise it's S7 with QSB on my vertical, but only about S1 on my low dipole. A line of 133 degrees from my location goes thru Jacksonville, Fl and also thru that long chain of islands, Nassau Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and Haiti and Dominican Republic. Most of Cuba would hit my 145 degree null, but Guantanamo is close enough to be a candidate (with a little measurement error). A measurement from Florida would be interesting. Jerry, K4SAV _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Wondering if it might be a commerical station on the 2 - 3 MHz area and with a spur? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 2, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Rick Stealey rstea...@hotmail.com wrote: I'm mapping the data, but nothing to hang my hat on at this time. The data from Steve (KK7UV) does not intersect any of the other reports (odd). A heading from W8JI or AA1K would be very helpful. Don (wd8dsb) If you guys will remember from a year ago, Don is the man who pinpoints these sources, if given a few more, reliable, data points. What is needed are reports from directional loops. 2-3 feet in diameter are fine for getting a sharp null, of a few degrees. This is much, much better data than from Beverages, etc. I built a loop with $5 worth of pvc pipe, and a bcb variable capacitor, and it took about an hour to glue together. I'm only hearing it S3 here in NJ at 10 am with a dipole, so doubt that my loop is going to hear it in daytime. Don - if it's in the direction you indicated (128 degrees) that puts in at the southern tip of WV or center of NC. Doubtful that any weak source is going to be audible to me this time of day from there. I'll do my best to get a bearing on it tonight if it gets louder. Rick K2xt _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
The signal on 3501.6 seems to have some significant power behind it. At noon (1700 UTC) it is running S7 to S1 (QSB) on my vertical. There is also an unmodulated carrier on 10.5048 MHz, but not very strong (at noon). 3501.6 x 3 = 10.5048 Jerry, K4SAV On 11/2/2013 9:52 AM, K4SAV wrote: I think I can do a little better on estimating the direction (better than SE which I gave earlier). I can get two 30 dB nulls out of my receiving antenna by switching directions. Those nulls appear at 145 and 133 degrees. Pointed SW the signal is S9 this morning. In the null at 133 degrees the signal is S0 and not audiable. The signal is considerably stronger at the 145 degree null. So my best guess is 133 degrees from Decatur, Alabama (north central Alabama). Oh! As I was typing this, at 1353 UTC the signal on 3501.6 abruptly stopped. It was still at S9 just before it stopped. Then at 1355 UTC it came back but with RTTY for about 15 or 20 seconds, and then back into its continuous unmodulated carrier mode at S9. The RTTY burst was too fast for me to boot an RTTY decoder to see if I could copy anything. I suspect this is not an unintentional radiator. There is very little QSB on this signal. I was waiting to see if the signal amplitude was going to go down after sunrise. At 2 hours after sunrise it's starting to show signs of QSB. It went down to S4 but now its back up to S8. Now at 3 hours after sunrise it's S7 with QSB on my vertical, but only about S1 on my low dipole. A line of 133 degrees from my location goes thru Jacksonville, Fl and also thru that long chain of islands, Nassau Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and Haiti and Dominican Republic. Most of Cuba would hit my 145 degree null, but Guantanamo is close enough to be a candidate (with a little measurement error). A measurement from Florida would be interesting. Jerry, K4SAV _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I can only give a rough direction from here, because right now the multipath is terrible. I'm at 33-04-38N and 84-03-28W That's EM73XB or EM73XC It appears to center on 130 degrees true from me. Because of multipath it could be off +-5 degrees. The direction keeps shifting. That's a line from my house (midway between Forsyth and Barnesville GA) down past Brunswick GA, down the islands, eventually crossing the area of Puerto Rico and J3. I just went out to check it again, and it appears to be gone. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Well darn. The signal on 3501.6 stopped at 2301 UTC. I thought maybe it would have some RTTY when it came back on like it did last time (maybe with a station ID), so I recorded it. It didn't. It just started up with a constant carrier. It came back at 0011 UTC. It's at S9+10 on my vertical. Tom thanks for the measurement. Makes me feel better about my 133 degree estimate. Jerry On 11/2/2013 7:08 PM, Tom W8JI wrote: I can only give a rough direction from here, because right now the multipath is terrible. I'm at 33-04-38N and 84-03-28W That's EM73XB or EM73XC It appears to center on 130 degrees true from me. Because of multipath it could be off +-5 degrees. The direction keeps shifting. That's a line from my house (midway between Forsyth and Barnesville GA) down past Brunswick GA, down the islands, eventually crossing the area of Puerto Rico and J3. I just went out to check it again, and it appears to be gone. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Based on Tom's bearing, the source is clearly not in the Carolinas as a few have specuilated. Charlie, K4OTV You can be absolutely sure it is not in or anywhere near NC. My heading can't be more than a few degrees off. This closely matches Jerry's line, his line is just west of mine and almost parallel. The only issue is the multipath the signal had near sunset, but I think I got a pretty good average at 130 degrees true from me. (EM73XB or EM73XC). A second reading later in time is always best to double check, but the signal went away. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Hi Guys, K5ESW reported the following : The 3501.5 carrier is audible in daylight in Raleigh, NC. It is running S3-S4 now at 3 pm local. It was about S6-S7 or better at night. What would be interesting to know is if anyone can hear this signal 24 hours a day, and then DF activity should be done from that area during the middle of the day. I will ask K5ESW if he can still hear this signal between noon and 3pm. In the Indianapolis area the signal runs S7 to S9 on my TX antenna during hours of darkness, but lots of fade/multipath. I noticed the signal was much more stable in the late afternoon (still light outside and running S) when I first heard it today (probably less multipath), and therefore tomorrow afternoon when it first appears I will attempt to update my headings. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: Based on Tom's bearing, the source is clearly not in the Carolinas as a few have specuilated. Charlie, K4OTV You can be absolutely sure it is not in or anywhere near NC. My heading can't be more than a few degrees off. This closely matches Jerry's line, his line is just west of mine and almost parallel. The only issue is the multipath the signal had near sunset, but I think I got a pretty good average at 130 degrees true from me. (EM73XB or EM73XC). A second reading later in time is always best to double check, but the signal went away. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Everyone is measuring the 3501.6 signal only, right? The other ones, if they exist are in the noise for me, central NJ. I heard the 3501.6 from 10 am till I had to QRT at 3 pm, S3 on a dipole. It is S8 now, So maybe I have it 24 hrs a day. I took my loop outside to my porch and got a bearing on it but not a sharp one (multipath?). And damnit, I can't find my compass right now to give you the number, although it probably doesn't help anyway, me being in NJ. I probably don't have enough signal for the loop to hear it during the day. Rick K2XT _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
S9 in KS @ 2:20 UTC S/SE on HiZ pro 4-8 73/jeff/ac0c www.ac0c.com alpha-charlie-zero-charlie -Original Message- From: Rick Stealey Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 9:12 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Everyone is measuring the 3501.6 signal only, right? The other ones, if they exist are in the noise for me, central NJ. I heard the 3501.6 from 10 am till I had to QRT at 3 pm, S3 on a dipole. It is S8 now, So maybe I have it 24 hrs a day. I took my loop outside to my porch and got a bearing on it but not a sharp one (multipath?). And damnit, I can't find my compass right now to give you the number, although it probably doesn't help anyway, me being in NJ. I probably don't have enough signal for the loop to hear it during the day. Rick K2XT _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
It's very strong here. On a vertical it is running S9+10 to S9+15 on peaks with QSB taking it down to S9. As I posted earlier it was running S1 to S7 at noon. That was due to QSB. I can hear it all day long. I can tell it has a lot of multipath right now. In the null of my antenna it flutters around, up and down, and then completely disappears for a little while. Earlier when it was more stable it just flat disappeared in my antenna null at 133 degrees. My largest measurement error is probably in accurately measuring my antenna position with a not too accurate compass. I also measured the offset between true north and compass direction. (I had it staked) After checking that at a website just now, I see that I missed it by one degree. That would make my estimate of 133 degrees be 132 degrees. Finally we have a measurement from Florida, and it is an interesting one. I don't know haw accurate the direction is, but it doesn't have to be very accurate to conclude that the source in in the USA, not out on one of the islands. Is someone plotting this? Jerry On 11/2/2013 9:01 PM, JC N4IS wrote: Hi guys I'm in Ft Lauderdale EL96ub and the carrier on 3501.6 is s9+10 coming around 350 degree with some QSB. Regards JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 9:29 PM To: Tom W8JI Cc: Charlie Cunningham; topband Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Hi Guys, K5ESW reported the following : The 3501.5 carrier is audible in daylight in Raleigh, NC. It is running S3-S4 now at 3 pm local. It was about S6-S7 or better at night. What would be interesting to know is if anyone can hear this signal 24 hours a day, and then DF activity should be done from that area during the middle of the day. I will ask K5ESW if he can still hear this signal between noon and 3pm. In the Indianapolis area the signal runs S7 to S9 on my TX antenna during hours of darkness, but lots of fade/multipath. I noticed the signal was much more stable in the late afternoon (still light outside and running S) when I first heard it today (probably less multipath), and therefore tomorrow afternoon when it first appears I will attempt to update my headings. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Tom W8JIw...@w8ji.com wrote: Based on Tom's bearing, the source is clearly not in the Carolinas as a few have specuilated. Charlie, K4OTV You can be absolutely sure it is not in or anywhere near NC. My heading can't be more than a few degrees off. This closely matches Jerry's line, his line is just west of mine and almost parallel. The only issue is the multipath the signal had near sunset, but I think I got a pretty good average at 130 degrees true from me. (EM73XB or EM73XC). A second reading later in time is always best to double check, but the signal went away. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
The 3501.5 carrier very solid in Western Canada- s-7 or so at VE6WZit must be **real** loud out east!! My bearing will not likely be much help, but rotating the Yagi it clearly peaks between 90 -120 deg from Calgary. Zero copy off the back of the beam with the same reciprocal bearing. de steve ve6wz _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
This is looking like somewhere near the Florida/Georgia border, Jacksonville, Fl to Brunswick, Ga area. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
This is looking like somewhere near the Florida/Georgia border, Jacksonville, Fl to Brunswick, Ga area. Any mobile station traveling the I-95 corridor could provide some very interesting data, very easily. What mile marker does the signal peak at? Then we take a loop and start driving around the swamps. Rick K2XT _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
05:00 UTC The 3501.5 carrier is s5/s6, some qsb comming from north west, so not from the carribian Kees, PE5T -- From: VE6WZ_Steve ve...@shaw.ca Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 3:52 AM To: K4SAV radi...@charter.net; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW The 3501.5 carrier very solid in Western Canada- s-7 or so at VE6WZit must be **real** loud out east!! My bearing will not likely be much help, but rotating the Yagi it clearly peaks between 90 -120 deg from Calgary. Zero copy off the back of the beam with the same reciprocal bearing. de steve ve6wz _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Actually, Gary, if we triangulate using Victor's 150 deg bearing from Carroll, Ohio and your 180 degree bearing from SE CT, we could plot an intersection and figure out just about where the source is! I suspect that the modulation that Tim said was too rapid for QSB is likely due to swells and wave motion on the sea surface, and those carriers with no IDs may be NDBs on buoys on drift nets. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
BTW, Gary, When Tim, K3LR, started this thread he also reported that the signals peaked at around 150 deg, from Middlesex, PA, so that, combined with your due south bearing, would also put the source out to sea! ( and not in NC or SC) 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
This is an example of a fishnet buoy that operates from 1.6 to 4 MHz. http://www.blueoceantackle.com/radio_buoys.htm The good news is they're battery operated and will ultimately have to be retrieved for battery replacement. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: g...@ka1j.com, Topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 6:21:23 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW BTW, Gary, When Tim, K3LR, started this thread he also reported that the signals peaked at around 150 deg, from Middlesex, PA, so that, combined with your due south bearing, would also put the source out to sea! ( and not in NC or SC) 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I'm using a HI-Z triangular array. Both of these signals are nulled significantly due north and are loudest due south not quite as loud SW SE from here. BTW, Gary - how are you measuring direction on 80m? -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. The link Frank posted mentions continuous operation which is something I hadn't experienced on 160. What is amazing to me is how loud their signals are compared to other signals I hear on the band. I understand its their saltwater location but that's pretty much what I have too and if I was at 100 watts I doubt I'd be as loud as those 3W-8W transmitters. Since they're on frequencies that are outside the 1900-1999Khz they are most likely from some foreign ported ship operating close to our shore. Aggravating they make any of those bouys designed to operate in ham bands at all. 73, Gary KA1J BTW, Gary, When Tim, K3LR, started this thread he also reported that the signals peaked at around 150 deg, from Middlesex, PA, so that, combined with your due south bearing, would also put the source out to sea! ( and not in NC or SC) 73, Charlie, K4OTV --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Carriers here this morning are at 3500.85 khz 3501.58 khz 3503.16 khz Using nulls from my 8-direction K9AY loop, I put the signal between 135 and 150 degrees from DN36. If that helps at all, Steve, KK7UV _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
A steady carrier from fish net beacons doesn't fit the pattern of the ones everyone has heard on 160. That would deplete the batteries fairly quickly. All the ones I know of send a short carrier and a CW ID followed by a long period of silence. That lets them be unattended for several days. If it is a FNB, perhaps it has a large-capacity battery and solar panels, or the batteries are manually replaced daily. Maybe it's RFI from that floating Google data center barge. ;-) 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com wrote: Seems that I saw something a while back about some fishing beacons on the low end of 80m ( or maybe 160m -but I think it was 80m) _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Approximately 128 deg from WD8DSB (EM69) using small DF loop. On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com wrote: A steady carrier from fish net beacons doesn't fit the pattern of the ones everyone has heard on 160. That would deplete the batteries fairly quickly. All the ones I know of send a short carrier and a CW ID followed by a long period of silence. That lets them be unattended for several days. If it is a FNB, perhaps it has a large-capacity battery and solar panels, or the batteries are manually replaced daily. Maybe it's RFI from that floating Google data center barge. ;-) 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com wrote: Seems that I saw something a while back about some fishing beacons on the low end of 80m ( or maybe 160m -but I think it was 80m) _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
It's mostly S8 on my SE 580' Beverage here in SW Missouri. Rather fast QSB down to S6. On the NE 580' Bev, mostly S3 to S6, but I just saw the signal about equal on both antennas. 73, Mike www,w0btu.com _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Clarification: my NE Beverage is actually about 55 degrees. (The SE Bev is 135 degrees.) On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 6:45 AM, Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com wrote: It's mostly S8 on my SE 580' Beverage here in SW Missouri. Rather fast QSB down to S6. On the NE 580' Bev, mostly S3 to S6, but I just saw the signal about equal on both antennas. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I'm mapping the data, but nothing to hang my hat on at this time. The data from Steve (KK7UV) does not intersect any of the other reports (odd). A heading from W8JI or AA1K would be very helpful. Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com wrote: It's mostly S8 on my SE 580' Beverage here in SW Missouri. Rather fast QSB down to S6. On the NE 580' Bev, mostly S3 to S6, but I just saw the signal about equal on both antennas. 73, Mike www,w0btu.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Steady carrier on 80 cw
There is a carrier on 1749.3 in the same direction about 150 degrees from Michigan. Harmonics anyone. _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
I noticed the day after the contest, all the fish net beacons on 160 were missing. Got wondering if contest QRM had anything to do with it. coincidence ? The 2nd day after, a couple, but not all came back. 73 Bruce-K1FZ www.qsl.net/k1fz/pennantnotes.html - Original Message - From: donov...@starpower.net To: Topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:30 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW This is an example of a fishnet buoy that operates from 1.6 to 4 MHz. http://www.blueoceantackle.com/radio_buoys.htm The good news is they're battery operated and will ultimately have to be retrieved for battery replacement. 73 Frank W3LPL _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
Thanks for that link, Frank! Very enlightening and interesting!! It does seem to fit with my speculation that those carriers might be from buoys! I'm impressed with the directional resolution available to some folks on this reflector! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 2:31 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW This is an example of a fishnet buoy that operates from 1.6 to 4 MHz. http://www.blueoceantackle.com/radio_buoys.htm The good news is they're battery operated and will ultimately have to be retrieved for battery replacement. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: g...@ka1j.com, Topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 6:21:23 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW BTW, Gary, When Tim, K3LR, started this thread he also reported that the signals peaked at around 150 deg, from Middlesex, PA, so that, combined with your due south bearing, would also put the source out to sea! ( and not in NC or SC) 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Thanks for the information, Gary! I'm impressed with and envious of your directional resolution capability! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 5:35 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I'm using a HI-Z triangular array. Both of these signals are nulled significantly due north and are loudest due south not quite as loud SW SE from here. BTW, Gary - how are you measuring direction on 80m? -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
Thanks, Gary Well, there are many vessels from Japan, Korea, US and Canada (and others) that operate out there! Yes, unfortunate that we have intruders in our bands! 73, Charlie,K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 5:36 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW Yes, that's what I was thinking too. The link Frank posted mentions continuous operation which is something I hadn't experienced on 160. What is amazing to me is how loud their signals are compared to other signals I hear on the band. I understand its their saltwater location but that's pretty much what I have too and if I was at 100 watts I doubt I'd be as loud as those 3W-8W transmitters. Since they're on frequencies that are outside the 1900-1999Khz they are most likely from some foreign ported ship operating close to our shore. Aggravating they make any of those bouys designed to operate in ham bands at all. 73, Gary KA1J BTW, Gary, When Tim, K3LR, started this thread he also reported that the signals peaked at around 150 deg, from Middlesex, PA, so that, combined with your due south bearing, would also put the source out to sea! ( and not in NC or SC) 73, Charlie, K4OTV --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
Charlie, My resolution is not as good as some people here, either. But where there's a will, there's often a way. :-) 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com wrote: I'm impressed with the directional resolution available to some folks on this reflector! _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Thanks, Gary and Mike Well, with my small lot, about all I can do is be envious!! :-) 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:05 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Charlie, mine's nowhere as good as the 8 element array they offer and others here have far better antennae than I. This offending signal is just stronger from my south and the HI-Z antennas do work as advertised. I'm someday going to get their 8 element array. Unfortunately I can't add to my existing phasing or controller for the 3 element so it'll be a whole new purchase. There's a Yamaha FJR1300 in-between now then... :) 73, Gary KA1J Thanks for the information, Gary! I'm impressed with and envious of your directional resolution capability! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 5:35 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I'm using a HI-Z triangular array. Both of these signals are nulled significantly due north and are loudest due south not quite as loud SW SE from here. BTW, Gary - how are you measuring direction on 80m? -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Funny that this should come up. My daughter Lina is part of the crew on the SSV Corwith Cramer, sailing (135ft, 2-master) that left Woods Hole, MA on October 13, sailing due south to Bequia (the Grenadines) and finishing up in St. Croix. This is a scientific (i.e., research) vessel --Lina's and environmental sciences student). While ship has lots of electronics, I haven't been able to find any specifics other than that they have Inmarsat phone and data, and an Argos satellite transmitter (beacon) on a buoy. We'll be meeting her in St.Crox in 3 weeks. I'll I'll look around and find out what they have. The latest position I have for them is Thursday 31 October 2013 Position: 20° 33.4’ N x 058° 45.4’ W Heading: 174° True Speed: 5.5 knots, motor sailing under the two staysy ls Weather: Wind ESE Force 4, cumulous and cirrus cloud cover, air temperature 29.5°C Yesterday: Wednesday 30 October 2013 Position: 22° 30.5’ W x 58° 39.2 ‘W Heading: 174° True Speed: 3 knots, sailing under all fore and aft sail Weather: Wind SE Force 3, Swell 6 feet 73, Eric W3DQ Washington, DC - Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:45:14 -0400 From: Tim Duffy k...@k3lr.com To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR -- Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 23:37:57 -0400 From: Tim Duffy k...@k3lr.com To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
My resolution is not as good as some people here, either. But where there's a will, there's often a way. :-) Many of the headings are misleading. Having been through this before several times, much of the data is always grossly overstated.It is common to exaggerate ability to determine direction. It's almost impossible to obtain several degree direction accuracy without either a rotatable loop with GOOD common mode rejection (some popular loop antennas can have a ~20 degree or more skew between what are supposed to be 180 degree apart nulls, because they have poor feed designs) or an interferometer of normal receiving antennas. An 8-circle array in a very clear location with proper hardware design and good element spacing can get within about 20 degrees. Single long Beverages in an array of 8 antennas maybe within 30-35 degrees. Broadside Beverages with wide spacing (~5/8th or wider) within about 20 degrees. A three direction array only within about 60 degrees or so, if in a clear spot and properly constructed. An interferometer with a few wavelengths spacing within a few degrees. A calibrated rotatable small loop without common mode skewing and in the clear, which is actually a pretty rare case, can be within a few degrees. My eight direction 350 ft diameter 8 circle, located out in a field 1500 feet or so from any re-radiators, can only resolve within +-22 degrees with good reliability. When I use it as part of a calibrated interferometer against Beverage arrays spaced ~1000 feet away, I can resolve the directional difference between two signals 50 miles apart in New England. When you draw the lines, be sure to allow for resolution of the antennas, and not the absolute numbers. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
OK, while we are on the topic another very big factor to think about is magnetic north vs. true north (I have tried to not bring this up in the past). I don't expect any response to this, but this has always been in the back of my mind and wonder what headings are really being reported (what is the reference, magnetic north or true north that each station is using when he reports a heading). 15 to 20 degrees difference for those of you in the New England states... Same problem out in the Northwest US, but opposite polarity 15 to 20 degrees. Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: My resolution is not as good as some people here, either. But where there's a will, there's often a way. :-) Many of the headings are misleading. Having been through this before several times, much of the data is always grossly overstated.It is common to exaggerate ability to determine direction. It's almost impossible to obtain several degree direction accuracy without either a rotatable loop with GOOD common mode rejection (some popular loop antennas can have a ~20 degree or more skew between what are supposed to be 180 degree apart nulls, because they have poor feed designs) or an interferometer of normal receiving antennas. An 8-circle array in a very clear location with proper hardware design and good element spacing can get within about 20 degrees. Single long Beverages in an array of 8 antennas maybe within 30-35 degrees. Broadside Beverages with wide spacing (~5/8th or wider) within about 20 degrees. A three direction array only within about 60 degrees or so, if in a clear spot and properly constructed. An interferometer with a few wavelengths spacing within a few degrees. A calibrated rotatable small loop without common mode skewing and in the clear, which is actually a pretty rare case, can be within a few degrees. My eight direction 350 ft diameter 8 circle, located out in a field 1500 feet or so from any re-radiators, can only resolve within +-22 degrees with good reliability. When I use it as part of a calibrated interferometer against Beverage arrays spaced ~1000 feet away, I can resolve the directional difference between two signals 50 miles apart in New England. When you draw the lines, be sure to allow for resolution of the antennas, and not the absolute numbers. _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Tim, I've been hearing these carriers for several days and confirmed with W8VVG and K4IQJ yesterday that they aren't ghosts in my machine. I sent the info we gathered to the ARRL (K0BOG), who will enlist their Official Observers to track them down. 73 -- Brian K1LI -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:45:14 -0400 From: Tim Duffy To: Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
OK, while we are on the topic another very big factor to think about is magnetic north vs. true north (I have tried to not bring this up in the past). I don't expect any response to this, but this has always been in the back of my mind and wonder what headings are really being reported (what is the reference, magnetic north or true north that each station is using when he reports a heading). The best procedure is to use multiple stations with known locations to calibrate, and use a movable null. For example, if I use a DXE NCC-1 as a combiner for interferometer use, I can calibrate from W1AW and other ham stations in that general area. I can then easily resolve directions that are just 2 degrees apart in heading at that distance. Without that, just using the eight circle, I cannot really resolve middle NY from eastern Mass. I think as the FCC becomes less and less involved, and as their DF sites continue to deteriorate, hams may have to pick up their own system. The important point of this is that bearings have tolerances, sometimes very wide tolerances, so any plots should look like V's with ranges rather than lines. The best thing is always to get data from people with right angle lines, especially those close to the problem, and to look at the plots based on the real resolution of each plot. Some might be 120 degrees wide, and very few will be narrower than 20-30 degrees. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
Hi, Don Well, we can improve on that by using a solar determination of true North. The way that I do it for my antenna arrays is: 1.0 Use a weather site to determine local sunrise and sunset times for your location on the day that you are going to make the determination. 2.0 Split the difference to determine the time for your local solar noon. 3.0 At the time of your local solar noon, a vertical shaft (determined by plumb line or spirit level) will cast a shadow that points to true North. (Best done on sunny day of course!) 73. Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:31 AM To: Tom W8JI Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW OK, while we are on the topic another very big factor to think about is magnetic north vs. true north (I have tried to not bring this up in the past). I don't expect any response to this, but this has always been in the back of my mind and wonder what headings are really being reported (what is the reference, magnetic north or true north that each station is using when he reports a heading). 15 to 20 degrees difference for those of you in the New England states... Same problem out in the Northwest US, but opposite polarity 15 to 20 degrees. Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: My resolution is not as good as some people here, either. But where there's a will, there's often a way. :-) Many of the headings are misleading. Having been through this before several times, much of the data is always grossly overstated.It is common to exaggerate ability to determine direction. It's almost impossible to obtain several degree direction accuracy without either a rotatable loop with GOOD common mode rejection (some popular loop antennas can have a ~20 degree or more skew between what are supposed to be 180 degree apart nulls, because they have poor feed designs) or an interferometer of normal receiving antennas. An 8-circle array in a very clear location with proper hardware design and good element spacing can get within about 20 degrees. Single long Beverages in an array of 8 antennas maybe within 30-35 degrees. Broadside Beverages with wide spacing (~5/8th or wider) within about 20 degrees. A three direction array only within about 60 degrees or so, if in a clear spot and properly constructed. An interferometer with a few wavelengths spacing within a few degrees. A calibrated rotatable small loop without common mode skewing and in the clear, which is actually a pretty rare case, can be within a few degrees. My eight direction 350 ft diameter 8 circle, located out in a field 1500 feet or so from any re-radiators, can only resolve within +-22 degrees with good reliability. When I use it as part of a calibrated interferometer against Beverage arrays spaced ~1000 feet away, I can resolve the directional difference between two signals 50 miles apart in New England. When you draw the lines, be sure to allow for resolution of the antennas, and not the absolute numbers. _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
Or a compass laying on a camera tripod, and an up-to-date magnetic declination map (Google it). 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com wrote: ... by using a solar determination of true North. The way that I do it for my antenna arrays is: 1.0 Use a weather site to determine local sunrise and sunset times for your location on the day that you are going to make the determination. 2.0 Split the difference to determine the time for your local solar noon. 3.0 At the time of your local solar noon, a vertical shaft (determined by plumb line or spirit level) will cast a shadow that points to true North. (Best done on sunny day of course!) _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW
How about a compass and declination map? A bit simpler good enough +/- 2 degrees. http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/WMM/image.shtml The standard for course plots on nautical charts is the letter T for true or M for magnetic after the degrees number and then an arrow to indicate for which direction the marking is valid. Of course, for antennas we really never care about magnetic headings so the only T makes sense to quote. Grant KZ1W On 11/1/2013 10:12 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: Hi, Don Well, we can improve on that by using a solar determination of true North. The way that I do it for my antenna arrays is: 1.0 Use a weather site to determine local sunrise and sunset times for your location on the day that you are going to make the determination. 2.0 Split the difference to determine the time for your local solar noon. 3.0 At the time of your local solar noon, a vertical shaft (determined by plumb line or spirit level) will cast a shadow that points to true North. (Best done on sunny day of course!) 73. Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:31 AM To: Tom W8JI Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW OK, while we are on the topic another very big factor to think about is magnetic north vs. true north (I have tried to not bring this up in the past). I don't expect any response to this, but this has always been in the back of my mind and wonder what headings are really being reported (what is the reference, magnetic north or true north that each station is using when he reports a heading). 15 to 20 degrees difference for those of you in the New England states... Same problem out in the Northwest US, but opposite polarity 15 to 20 degrees. Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: My resolution is not as good as some people here, either. But where there's a will, there's often a way. :-) Many of the headings are misleading. Having been through this before several times, much of the data is always grossly overstated.It is common to exaggerate ability to determine direction. It's almost impossible to obtain several degree direction accuracy without either a rotatable loop with GOOD common mode rejection (some popular loop antennas can have a ~20 degree or more skew between what are supposed to be 180 degree apart nulls, because they have poor feed designs) or an interferometer of normal receiving antennas. An 8-circle array in a very clear location with proper hardware design and good element spacing can get within about 20 degrees. Single long Beverages in an array of 8 antennas maybe within 30-35 degrees. Broadside Beverages with wide spacing (~5/8th or wider) within about 20 degrees. A three direction array only within about 60 degrees or so, if in a clear spot and properly constructed. An interferometer with a few wavelengths spacing within a few degrees. A calibrated rotatable small loop without common mode skewing and in the clear, which is actually a pretty rare case, can be within a few degrees. My eight direction 350 ft diameter 8 circle, located out in a field 1500 feet or so from any re-radiators, can only resolve within +-22 degrees with good reliability. When I use it as part of a calibrated interferometer against Beverage arrays spaced ~1000 feet away, I can resolve the directional difference between two signals 50 miles apart in New England. When you draw the lines, be sure to allow for resolution of the antennas, and not the absolute numbers. _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Having more time this evening I went to an open field with two different portable DF antenna systems (shielded loop, and terminated flag), and I'm now going to say the signal is 140 degrees from my location just NE of Indianapolis (140 degrees True heading). Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 10:09 AM, nekv...@hushmail.com wrote: Tim, I've been hearing these carriers for several days and confirmed with W8VVG and K4IQJ yesterday that they aren't ghosts in my machine. I sent the info we gathered to the ARRL (K0BOG), who will enlist their Official Observers to track them down. 73 -- Brian K1LI -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:45:14 -0400 From: Tim Duffy To: Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Oops, I compensated for true north backwards on my last report. Therefore I should have said the signal is 130 degrees from my location just NE of Indianapolis (130 degrees True heading which is very close to the 128 deg number I said this morning). Don On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Don Kirk wd8...@gmail.com wrote: Having more time this evening I went to an open field with two different portable DF antenna systems (shielded loop, and terminated flag), and I'm now going to say the signal is 140 degrees from my location just NE of Indianapolis (140 degrees True heading). Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 10:09 AM, nekv...@hushmail.com wrote: Tim, I've been hearing these carriers for several days and confirmed with W8VVG and K4IQJ yesterday that they aren't ghosts in my machine. I sent the info we gathered to the ARRL (K0BOG), who will enlist their Official Observers to track them down. 73 -- Brian K1LI -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:45:14 -0400 From: Tim Duffy To: Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Seems like it is south of me in NNJ as well as its nill on my NE flag and s4 on the SW flag. Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2013, at 22:37, Don Kirk wd8...@gmail.com wrote: Oops, I compensated for true north backwards on my last report. Therefore I should have said the signal is 130 degrees from my location just NE of Indianapolis (130 degrees True heading which is very close to the 128 deg number I said this morning). Don On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Don Kirk wd8...@gmail.com wrote: Having more time this evening I went to an open field with two different portable DF antenna systems (shielded loop, and terminated flag), and I'm now going to say the signal is 140 degrees from my location just NE of Indianapolis (140 degrees True heading). Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 10:09 AM, nekv...@hushmail.com wrote: Tim, I've been hearing these carriers for several days and confirmed with W8VVG and K4IQJ yesterday that they aren't ghosts in my machine. I sent the info we gathered to the ARRL (K0BOG), who will enlist their Official Observers to track them down. 73 -- Brian K1LI -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:45:14 -0400 From: Tim Duffy To: Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
The signals on 3501.6 and 3503.1 are both SE of me (north Alabama) but I can't locate the direction any closer than that with only a four direction receiving antenna. They are very strong, S9+5 to S9+10, same on either a low dipole or a vertical. They were also that strong even a few hours before sunset. I listened for a while on AM but never heard any modulation. Jerry, K4SAV _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
From the Virgin Islands they are 59+ on my NW Beverage and weak on my North and West Beverage. I know that is probably not much help but I send the information along for what its worth. Like Merv said the strongest is 3501.6. I am listening to a NA pile up on 3525.5 calling 5J0R and the carrier is equal or better than most of the callers. I would thus assume that these signals are produced by substantial power and good antennas and not some flea powered sea buoy floating around in the Gulf. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 11/2/2013 12:16 AM, Merv Schweigert wrote: Can hear them here in KH6 land, at least the 3500.9 and 3501.6. the 3503.1 is there also but weak, strongest is 3501.6 antenna to broad to pin point any true direction, but its coming from the east to north east for sure. Merv K9FD/KH6 The signals on 3501.6 and 3503.1 are both SE of me (north Alabama) but I can't locate the direction any closer than that with only a four direction receiving antenna. They are very strong, S9+5 to S9+10, same on either a low dipole or a vertical. They were also that strong even a few hours before sunset. I listened for a while on AM but never heard any modulation. Jerry, K4SAV _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:37:57 PM Tim Duffy wrote: There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. Both carriers peak on my 150 degree Beverage as well. So either the source is far away from me and Tim or my direction finding is lousy. The carriers vary in strength in a pattern that does not seem like QSB. The strength varies by about 15 db over about 30 seconds, watching the P3 and timing by counting (meaning very rough). Victor, K1LT _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Seems that I saw something a while back about some fishing beacons on the low end of 80m ( or maybe 160m -but I think it was 80m) Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Victor A. Kean, Jr. Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:57 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:37:57 PM Tim Duffy wrote: There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. Both carriers peak on my 150 degree Beverage as well. So either the source is far away from me and Tim or my direction finding is lousy. The carriers vary in strength in a pattern that does not seem like QSB. The strength varies by about 15 db over about 30 seconds, watching the P3 and timing by counting (meaning very rough). Victor, K1LT _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
FYI http://www.w8ji.com/ndb%20beacon%20fish%20buoy%20net%20beacons.htm (Looks like Tom knows a bit about those beacons - including fishing and driftnet beacons. Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Victor A. Kean, Jr. Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:57 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:37:57 PM Tim Duffy wrote: There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. Both carriers peak on my 150 degree Beverage as well. So either the source is far away from me and Tim or my direction finding is lousy. The carriers vary in strength in a pattern that does not seem like QSB. The strength varies by about 15 db over about 30 seconds, watching the P3 and timing by counting (meaning very rough). Victor, K1LT _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Well, that makes a lot more sense, Gary!! That would be down into the Atlantic or Carribean or SA. I don't understand how Victor could think that NC and SC are at 150 deg from him, if he's in New England?? Charlie, K4OTV Raleigh, NC -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
BTW, Gary - how are you measuring direction on 80m? -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Now I understand!! Victor, K1LT is NOT on New England - he's in OH! So, I guess 150 deg to NC or SC makes sense - although he could still be looking past us out into the ocean, which is what I expect is the case. I guess I'm just an old coot, and back in the old days, we could tell where someone was by their call! Guess I'm showing my age! 73. Charlie, K4OTV - ex K4OTV, W3EJN, W9MXW, N4BZX -now K4OTV again via the vanity call sign system that allowed me to recover my original call from 1957! :-) -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 3.501.6 due south from SE CT 73, Gary KA1J There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on - two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 73, Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier on 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this evening Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 73, Tim K3LR _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
