Re: Topband: Top Loading wires
Could someone tell me the length of top loading wires (4 wires planned) needed to add to the top of a base insulated 90 foot Rohn 25g tower to maximize the radiation resistance on 160 meters. I understand there is a point of diminishing returns on the top loading lengths. The 4 wire angles will be around 45 degrees or as close as possible.If I knew how to model ,or even had a modeling program, I would attempt this already relatively simple task to many. From 50+ years of practical experience, I am ‘guessing’ maybe 28 feet long each? Ideally it would be where the antenna has the current maximized near the center of the vertical section, lower as you fold the hat wires down. Centering current is going to be with the hat wires way out around 60ft or so if you use four thin wires sloped down at 45 degrees, and any radiation resistance improvement would probably be so minor as to be unnoticeable over just making it self resonant.That thick 90 foot radiator with a hat on the top makes current almost uniform. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
My 160 TX is causing RFI to one of my baseboard heater programmable thermostats (switches modes, temperature, when I transmit). The thermostat has a 2 wire connection to 240VAC in a metal receptacle box that has a third wire common ground wire. I would like to try bypassing the AC line. Can someone suggest an appropriate (safe) capacitor for this purpose, e.g. a Digi-Key or Mouser part number? Should I use one capacitor across the 240VAC or two capacitors, one from each 120VAC line to the common wire? Thanks for the help. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Plate Designs
I use these ground bars. I don't like soldered connections outdoors. I picked up my ground bars at a hamfest. They are made out of copper, not aluminum. Does anyone know where I can purchase the copper ground bars today? If you use the aluminum ground bars with copper wire I'd use an al-cu anti oxidant compound like Penetrox. Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com To: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net, topBand List topband@contesting.com Sent: Wed, 04 Feb 2015 15:31:59 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Plate Designs A different idea than lug connections, is to use load-center style ground bars bolted to the metal plate. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-23-Terminal-Load-Center-Ground-Bar-Kit-PK23GTACP/100129430 I fully agree this is not up to Bellcore grounding standards. But seems much more ham-amenable, especially for those of us who unroll many of our random-gauge radial wires across driveways and lawns on contest weekends and hook up in cold weather - the clamp screws in the ground bars are easily worked with a screwdriver in a gloved hand and accomodate any random-sized-style conductor. Tim N3QE On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net wrote: I've long thought about designing a radial plate that addresses some significant limitations with currently available product. Specially, every commercially available radial plate uses single-hole lugs to attach a radial wire to the plate. The problem is that with upwards of 60+ lugs in harms way of accidental contact, single-hole lugs are very susceptible to rotation and loosening. In the link below, you'll see a different kind of radial plate that makes use of double-hole lugs. http://tinyurl.com/pykx44x snip Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Plate Designs
A different idea than lug connections, is to use load-center style ground bars bolted to the metal plate. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-23-Terminal-Load-Center-Ground-Bar-Kit-PK23GTACP/100129430 I fully agree this is not up to Bellcore grounding standards. But seems much more ham-amenable, especially for those of us who unroll many of our random-gauge radial wires across driveways and lawns on contest weekends and hook up in cold weather - the clamp screws in the ground bars are easily worked with a screwdriver in a gloved hand and accomodate any random-sized-style conductor. At little verticals no one gets close to, I just twist my wires in a coherent lump, flux it with liquid flux, and flood the twisted area with solder. If I get really sophisticated, I slide a piece of copper pipe over the twisted area, crimp it, and flood the whole inside with solder. At towers, where people have to walk over the radials and a bunch of wires are a PITA, I solder to a square made from copper flashing. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Top Loading wires
T hanks for the correction, Stan. My old eyes missed that!! A 90' tower won't require much top-loading at all! Sorry for my error 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Stan Stockton [mailto:wa5...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 1:41 PM To: Charlie Cunningham Subject: Re: Topband: [Bulk] Top Loading wires It's a 90 foot tower he is describing. Sent from my iPad On Feb 4, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com wrote: Gee, I surely agree with Grant, Larry! I've used EZNEC for MANY years, with great results, and I've designed, built, tested and measured many wonderful EZNEC designs - including some really complex killer antennas! I do think that 28' top loading wires will be WAY TOO SHORT atop 50 ft. of Rohn 25! More like 50-70' will be needed to resonate that tower. You will probably do just as well with TWO top-loading wires in a Tee configuration! The point is for the top-loading wires to extend the tower to 1/4 wave resonance on 160. Of course you could make an excellent 80m antenna with the 50' tower and some modest top-loading wires approaching the length that you are considering. GL! If you are going to be experimenting with low-band antennas, EZNEC is a GREAT investment 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Grant Saviers Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 11:28 AM To: Larry - K1UO; Topband Reflector Subject: Re: Topband: [Bulk] Top Loading wires With an insulated tower, the cheapest EZNEC and other free NECs will yield good results. Would you rather climb, cut, and trim a few times or spend $89 to get EZNEC? Simple to learn. And the demo version is free eznec.com Grant KZ1W no affiliation, just a long term happy user On 2/4/2015 7:27 AM, Larry - K1UO wrote: Could someone tell me the length of top loading wires (4 wires planned) needed to add to the top of a base insulated 90 foot Rohn 25g tower to maximize the radiation resistance on 160 meters. I understand there is a point of diminishing returns on the top loading lengths. The 4 wire angles will be around 45 degrees or as close as possible.If I knew how to model ,or even had a modeling program, I would attempt this already relatively simple task to many. From 50+ years of practical experience, I am ‘guessing’ maybe 28 feet long each? _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Proposal for Modification of DXCC Rules
Larry - very interesting proposal worth serious consideration! For the record, per your request, I am affiliated only with me, the amateur, and do not use a remote station 73 Joel W5ZN A few days ago someone on the reflector suggested if you don't like the DXCC rules get them changed. Here's a proposal designed to maintain a certain amount of integrity in the DXCC program while allowing for the use of remotes, both personal and commercial. This should help those in HOA-restricted communities, those whose careers require frequent moves/travel and, in some cases, advance technical knowledge of the licensee -- all the arguments one hears defending the use of remotes. Back when the DXCC rules were changed to eliminate the requirement that all contacts must be made from within a 150 (?) mile radius to all contacts must be made from within the same entity the hobby was in a much different place. The changes were made, in part, to accommodate an increasingly mobile workforce who wanted to maintain their DXCC totals. Today, one can access personal or commercial remotes from anywhere in the world. Here's the proposal: 1. Grandfather all credits to-date -- whether they were obtained from one location, moving all over a given DXCC entity or via any type of remote 2. Revert back to DXCC being determined by station location, not the operator. To allow for local moves establish a 150 mile radius within which the station location may be moved. 3. Each operator gets to pick ONE location from which he may feed his DXCC award going forward. This can be a traditional home station, his personal remote station, or a commercial remote. But pick ONE and stick with it. No more clicking from one coast to another. Sure, there will be questions on enforceability -- but you have that now with excessive power, the all equipment within 300 meters rule, and so on. If this is a really big deal to someone, establish a DXCC OO position and scatter them around the world (like that would be a fun job!). Gotta move to a new QTH across the country and don't want to start over? -- establish a remote within 150 miles of your current location, or set one up at the local radio club for members to use. This might even encourage RHR to put remotes in all metro areas to accommodate such moves. Win-win for everyone. In the interest of transparency, if you want to weigh in on this discussion, please indicate your affiliation with any commercial remote business and/or your use/non-use of remotes to feed your awards today. Larry K5RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband www.w5zn.org _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
...which happens daily. -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 1:10 PM To: David Raymond; TopBand Subject: Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N I mentioned last week that we would be seeing over seas stations using US based remotes stations to work K1N. It was mentioned here that this won't happen, and that the US remote station operators monitor this activity carefully and do not permit it. Well, it is happening. Dave, How do you know it was a remote, and not someone using someone else's call or someone using someone's station and not signing legally? Were you watching the Internet, like the NSA? Maybe it was that KK6 fellow everyone was trashing? :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Top Loading wires
On 2/4/2015 7:27 AM, Larry - K1UO wrote: Could someone tell me the length of top loading wires (4 wires planned) needed to add to the top of a base insulated 90 foot Rohn 25g tower to maximize the radiation resistance on 160 meters. I understand there is a point of diminishing returns on the top loading lengths. The 4 wire angles will be around 45 degrees or as close as possible.If I knew how to model ,or even had a modeling program, I would attempt this already relatively simple task to many. From 50+ years of practical experience, I am guessing¹ maybe 28 feet long each? I just modeled a 90 ft tower with a flat T top of #12 that varies from 28 ft to 60 ft from center. A total of 30, 1/4 wave radials are buried six inches. I¹m using 4Nec2 with NEC v4.2. This is not your planned set-up, but it serves as an illustration. With 28 ft. flat-top spokes, the current distribution is still highest at the ground. By the time you get to 50 ft. spokes, current maximum is just under the center of the vertical (~ 30 ft.). With 60 ft. spokes, current peaks in the middle of the tower. Maybe as a compromise, 40 - 50ft would be reasonable. Current is still strong over the entire length of the vertical radiator but maximum is lifted up away from the ground. With a 60+60 =120 ft. total length flat hat, you¹re going to find resonance is way down in the AM broadcast band (about 1410 kHz in this example). But so what? Forget the frequency of resonance and pay more attention to current distribution. On 160m, a simple L network network at the base will get us 50+j0. Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Proposal for Modification of DXCC Rules
A few days ago someone on the reflector suggested if you don't like the DXCC rules get them changed. Here's a proposal designed to maintain a certain amount of integrity in the DXCC program while allowing for the use of remotes, both personal and commercial. This should help those in HOA-restricted communities, those whose careers require frequent moves/travel and, in some cases, advance technical knowledge of the licensee -- all the arguments one hears defending the use of remotes. Back when the DXCC rules were changed to eliminate the requirement that all contacts must be made from within a 150 (?) mile radius to all contacts must be made from within the same entity the hobby was in a much different place. The changes were made, in part, to accommodate an increasingly mobile workforce who wanted to maintain their DXCC totals. Today, one can access personal or commercial remotes from anywhere in the world. Here's the proposal: 1. Grandfather all credits to-date -- whether they were obtained from one location, moving all over a given DXCC entity or via any type of remote 2. Revert back to DXCC being determined by station location, not the operator. To allow for local moves establish a 150 mile radius within which the station location may be moved. 3. Each operator gets to pick ONE location from which he may feed his DXCC award going forward. This can be a traditional home station, his personal remote station, or a commercial remote. But pick ONE and stick with it. No more clicking from one coast to another. Sure, there will be questions on enforceability -- but you have that now with excessive power, the all equipment within 300 meters rule, and so on. If this is a really big deal to someone, establish a DXCC OO position and scatter them around the world (like that would be a fun job!). Gotta move to a new QTH across the country and don't want to start over? -- establish a remote within 150 miles of your current location, or set one up at the local radio club for members to use. This might even encourage RHR to put remotes in all metro areas to accommodate such moves. Win-win for everyone. In the interest of transparency, if you want to weigh in on this discussion, please indicate your affiliation with any commercial remote business and/or your use/non-use of remotes to feed your awards today. Larry K5RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
On 2015-02-04, at 12:45 PM, David Raymond wrote: I mentioned last week that we would be seeing over seas stations using US based remotes stations to work K1N. It was mentioned here that this won't happen, and that the US remote station operators monitor this activity carefully and do not permit it. Well, it is happening. I have personally witnessed on IT9 station and one JA station using clearly NA based remote stations to work K1N on 160m. That's probably just the tip of the iceberg. It's rather obvious when they are on 160m and are 20 or 30 db stronger than the din of the DX stations calling. There will be more. Incidentally, they were not signing at /W#, /K#, etc. Realistically it's probably not preventable but saddening. Why not just get rid of the radios entirely, instead, have some sort of an on-line chat fest, similar to the old Dr. DX computer add-on of some 30 years ago...?! Senor, we doan neet yoor steenkeeng propagation heer, annaways...!!! ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Dave - you are correct. That very statement was rather boldly made by a prominent 160 meter person right here. At the time I thought about throwing the flag on that one but decided, then, not to. I know the remote folks can track ISP addresses of those connected but do not know how they can verify a station outside the country where the remote is located is identifying correctly and lawfully. So, I'll make a bold statement hereThe remote folks don't care and will not control it as long as the are flowing in. Money talks and the rules can go to hell. Am I wrong?? Then prove me wrong and let's see some hammering down on this by the remote folks. 73 Joel W5ZN I mentioned last week that we would be seeing over seas stations using US based remotes stations to work K1N. It was mentioned here that this won't happen, and that the US remote station operators monitor this activity carefully and do not permit it. Well, it is happening. I have personally witnessed on IT9 station and one JA station using clearly NA based remote stations to work K1N on 160m. That's probably just the tip of the iceberg. It's rather obvious when they are on 160m and are 20 or 30 db stronger than the din of the DX stations calling. There will be more. Incidentally, they were not signing at /W#, /K#, etc. Realistically it's probably not preventable but saddening. In the meantime, I think the K1N ops are doing nothing short of a fabulous job. Excellent Q rates, good job managing the piles, deftly QSYing to dodge DQRM, all the while being quite cheerful and courteous. Bravo! 73. . . Dave, W0FLS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband www.w5zn.org _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
I mentioned last week that we would be seeing over seas stations using US based remotes stations to work K1N. It was mentioned here that this won't happen, and that the US remote station operators monitor this activity carefully and do not permit it. Well, it is happening. Dave, How do you know it was a remote, and not someone using someone else's call or someone using someone's station and not signing legally? Were you watching the Internet, like the NSA? Maybe it was that KK6 fellow everyone was trashing? :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Top Loading wires
The tower is 90 feet, not 50 feet. On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 12:11 PM, Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com wrote: Gee, I surely agree with Grant, Larry! I've used EZNEC for MANY years, with great results, and I've designed, built, tested and measured many wonderful EZNEC designs - including some really complex killer antennas! I do think that 28' top loading wires will be WAY TOO SHORT atop 50 ft. of Rohn 25! More like 50-70' will be needed to resonate that tower. You will probably do just as well with TWO top-loading wires in a Tee configuration! The point is for the top-loading wires to extend the tower to 1/4 wave resonance on 160. Of course you could make an excellent 80m antenna with the 50' tower and some modest top-loading wires approaching the length that you are considering. GL! If you are going to be experimenting with low-band antennas, EZNEC is a GREAT investment 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Grant Saviers Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 11:28 AM To: Larry - K1UO; Topband Reflector Subject: Re: Topband: [Bulk] Top Loading wires With an insulated tower, the cheapest EZNEC and other free NECs will yield good results. Would you rather climb, cut, and trim a few times or spend $89 to get EZNEC? Simple to learn. And the demo version is free eznec.com Grant KZ1W no affiliation, just a long term happy user On 2/4/2015 7:27 AM, Larry - K1UO wrote: Could someone tell me the length of top loading wires (4 wires planned) needed to add to the top of a base insulated 90 foot Rohn 25g tower to maximize the radiation resistance on 160 meters. I understand there is a point of diminishing returns on the top loading lengths. The 4 wire angles will be around 45 degrees or as close as possible.If I knew how to model ,or even had a modeling program, I would attempt this already relatively simple task to many. From 50+ years of practical experience, I am ‘guessing’ maybe 28 feet long each? _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Ethical issues aside, a EU station working through a USA remote without signing a USA callsign indicator is illegal under FCC rules. Someone is legally responsible for the operation of an FCC licensed station. If such illegal operation is occurring, who is the responsible party? Hats off the K1N operation. First class ops all the way. 73 Chas N8RR From: daraym...@iowatelecom.net To: topband@contesting.com Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 11:45:06 -0600 Subject: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N I mentioned last week that we would be seeing over seas stations using US based remotes stations to work K1N. It was mentioned here that this won't happen, and that the US remote station operators monitor this activity carefully and do not permit it. Well, it is happening. I have personally witnessed on IT9 station and one JA station using clearly NA based remote stations to work K1N on 160m. That's probably just the tip of the iceberg. It's rather obvious when they are on 160m and are 20 or 30 db stronger than the din of the DX stations calling. There will be more. Incidentally, they were not signing at /W#, /K#, etc. Realistically it's probably not preventable but saddening. In the meantime, I think the K1N ops are doing nothing short of a fabulous job. Excellent Q rates, good job managing the piles, deftly QSYing to dodge DQRM, all the while being quite cheerful and courteous. Bravo! 73. . . Dave, W0FLS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Open wire feeder
I have 350' of coax going to a remote antenna switch which allows me to select from 5 vertical wires, I just posted about my radial system/plate they are part of. Amazing to me is between these 5 wires I can cover 160M-6M and I use no antenna tuner except the internal one in the K3. I have a tribander roof mounted but don't like using it because it picks up so much hash from neighboring sources. The wires 350 feet away are always quieter on the same band. I am losing a lot of Rx/Tx signal on the higher bands with this long coax. I have not been able to find anyone to sell me used/surplus hardline that's affordable at this 350' distance so am wondering if I could supply these antennas with open feeder line and do so in a practical manner to switch bands quickly in a contest. If the answer is to use just one wire and tune that, the 160M is 129' long and is mostly a sloper with the last 40 feet resting on the top branches of trees. What I'm doing now tunes nicely Ie: 17M tunes great with the 80M antenna, as does 12M but the 160M is sometimes better so I select the better one at the time. Thanks, Gary KA1J --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: AC line bypass capacitors
A nice tutorial about the what and why of line connected capacitors at http://www.justradios.com/safetytips.html Grant KZ1W On 2/4/2015 10:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On Wed,2/4/2015 9:52 AM, Roger Graves wrote: I would like to try bypassing the AC line. There is a particular class of bypass capacitor required for the AC line, because it is subject to HV spikes from the power system. They are standard parts, rated specifically for 3-6 kV. buy from Newark, Allied, Digikey, etc. I don't recall the nomenclature off the top of my head, but it's in k9yc.com/RFI-Ham.pdf 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
This is easily found out without the NSA, just look at who paid for the minutes used at a remote station and it would show who used it and when, Can guarantee that wont be forth coming. Reminds me of the ole joke: The first chicken that cackles, laid the egg. 73 Merv K9FD/KH6, I mentioned last week that we would be seeing over seas stations using US based remotes stations to work K1N. It was mentioned here that this won't happen, and that the US remote station operators monitor this activity carefully and do not permit it. Well, it is happening. Dave, How do you know it was a remote, and not someone using someone else's call or someone using someone's station and not signing legally? Were you watching the Internet, like the NSA? Maybe it was that KK6 fellow everyone was trashing? :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband . _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
My 160 TX is causing RFI to one of my baseboard heater programmable thermostats (switches modes, temperature, when I transmit). The thermostat has a 2 wire connection to 240VAC in a metal receptacle box that has a third wire common ground wire. I would like to try bypassing the AC line. Can someone suggest an appropriate (safe) capacitor for this purpose, e.g. a Digi-Key or Mouser part number? Should I use one capacitor across the 240VAC or two capacitors, one from each 120VAC line to the common wire? Thanks for the help. _ As a substitute for X1 Y2 line caps, an in-line RFI/EMI filter can be used that already contains the X/Y-rated caps. See the bottom of p. 21: http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf These filters can often be cannibalized from old PC power supplies and discarded industrial equipment. Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
You still haven't proven me wrong!! :-)) Dave - you are correct. That very statement was rather boldly made by a prominent 160 meter person right here. That was me. It was a statement of fact. RHR requires a log in name, password, and they watch IPs. After some early abuse, they started checking to be sure the name and password come from the same IP or IP pool as the user name and password combo. When it is a foreign user, of which there are a limited number, the traffic is watched. It is highly unlikely someone used RHR, unless Dave knows of some flaw in the system. If Dave does, or if you do Joel, you should do something constructive and point out the flaw. At the time I thought about throwing the flag on that one but decided, then, not to. I know the remote folks can track ISP addresses of those connected but do not know how they can verify a station outside the country where the remote is located is identifying correctly and lawfully. RHR is getting the heat here when, factually, Dave probably hasn't the faintest idea who or what was being used and/or where the station was coming from. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Someone makes a doomsday prediction. Hearing something funny, the conclusion is it had to be via RHR. Then Joel decides if Dave said it, it must be right. W8JI has to be wrong, because Dave knows more about RHR procedures and can monitor the system better then Tom can, looking at site operation data. :-) We are not only so clairvoyant as a group that we know everything that happened with ZM enough to publically lynch him, we now are such experts on remote radio we know what system it came from. So, I'll make a bold statement hereThe remote folks don't care and will not control it as long as the are flowing in. Money talks and the rules can go to hell. What a bizarre statement! Am I wrong?? Then prove me wrong and let's see some hammering down on this by the remote folks. Unfortunately, no one can correct what is in someone else's imagination or opinion. Facts will never overcome good old fashioned emotional-driven opinions. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband www.w5zn.org _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Proposal for Modification of DXCC Rules
Back when the DXCC rules were changed to eliminate the requirement that all contacts must be made from within a 150 (?) mile radius to all contacts must be made from within the same entity the hobby was in a much different place. I think they need two awards. 1.) All contacts from a person's own station, all on site, and a site change only within a reasonable distance. 2.) The present rules that have been in place. The problem becomes, as it is in any sport, personal ethics. Two awards would at least defuse the legal debate. 1. Grandfather all credits to-date -- whether they were obtained from one location, moving all over a given DXCC entity or via any type of remote 2. Revert back to DXCC being determined by station location, not the operator. To allow for local moves establish a 150 mile radius within which the station location may be moved. Bingo. Two awards. 3. Each operator gets to pick ONE location from which he may feed his DXCC award going forward. This can be a traditional home station, his personal remote station, or a commercial remote. But pick ONE and stick with it. No more clicking from one coast to another. That would fit the second one station only class. Sure, there will be questions on enforceability -- but you have that now with excessive power, the all equipment within 300 meters rule, and so on. If this is a really big deal to someone, establish a DXCC OO position and scatter them around the world (like that would be a fun job!). Cheaters and sore sports will always be part of any competitive situation. Generally anything that that levels the field against one person will be taken as bad by that person, and fair by others. Personally, I just enjoy the technology. I care less about the awards, especially since a noticable percentage of QSO's are not even actual QSO's by the defintion of a radio information exchange. I just don't understand why anyone feels their value as a contributing Ham depends on how difficult a time they can publically give others, how they can best make others feel bad, or how they compare to someone else in some award or score. I mean, it is fun to win a contest and fun to work a country, but all this silly bickering and wild unfounded accusations remind me more of MMA fighting than a technical, educational, hobby. :-) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Top Loading wires
On Wed,2/4/2015 10:52 AM, Paul Christensen wrote: On 160m, a simple L network network at the base will get us 50+j0. For about 7 years, I've tuned my Tee vertical well below the band (by making the top loading wires longer), raising the drive point impedance to 50 + jX Ohms. The antenna looks inductive, so it's simple to add series capacitance to tune out jX, and you end up with a nice match. As noted, this moves the peak of the current up a bit. BUT -- don't forget that it will also change the current distribution along the length of the radials, which CAN increase loss in the radials. N6BV (retired ARRL Antenna Book editor) has NEC4, and modeled this for me with the radials. He said that from a radiation point of view, there was no benefit to moving the current up the tower, but it didn't hurt either, so the tuning method doesn't hurt antenna efficiency. Until about a month ago, the vertical section was 86 ft, with about 130 ft horizontal (Tee). My tree climber, who is also an arborist, told me that the big Madrone tree that held up one end of the Tee was dead and in danger of falling on my water tanks, and that we should take it down. He did, and found a young Douglas Fir, about 120 ft, to move the antenna to. He did, and I ended up with 100 ft vertical. I now have about 82 ft horizontal, and it tunes with about 900 pF. I modeled the antenna in EZNEC, and dimensions came out within a foot or so from what I measured. SWR Bandwidth of an antenna is increased by making the conductors larger, and for quite a while, I've used two parallel lengths of #10 THHN spaced about 10 inches. Both versions (old and new) are giving me better than 1.8:1 up to about 1910 kHz. Prior to lengthening the top section, I measured feedpoint Z of 33.8 ohms at resonance, about 1710 kHz. I've got about 60 radials laying on the ground, varying in length between about 67 ft and about 130 ft, and the soil here is quite poor -- very rocky, mountainous. Looking at a graph in the ARRL Antenna Book for radiation resistance vs vertical height, I'd guess that I have about 10 ohms of resistance in the radial system. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Proposal for Modification of DXCC Rules
Larry, As has been noted... worth a look and invokes serious thought on how to administer DXCC and other Awards within a constantly evolving Radio environment. DISCLAIMER:I guess since I'm currently building a remote site to continue my Ham activities/interests from this HOA I probably fall in under proposal #2. You proposal seems like a fair one to me, but then again, even though we have moved 3 times in the past 10 years, the distance involved for me has been less than 10 miles. Hardly worth arguing about my DXCC credits . -Original Message- From: Larry Burke Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 2:50 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Proposal for Modification of DXCC Rules A few days ago someone on the reflector suggested if you don't like the DXCC rules get them changed. Here's a proposal designed to maintain a certain amount of integrity in the DXCC program while allowing for the use of remotes, both personal and commercial. This should help those in HOA-restricted communities, those whose careers require frequent moves/travel and, in some cases, advance technical knowledge of the licensee -- all the arguments one hears defending the use of remotes. Back when the DXCC rules were changed to eliminate the requirement that all contacts must be made from within a 150 (?) mile radius to all contacts must be made from within the same entity the hobby was in a much different place. The changes were made, in part, to accommodate an increasingly mobile workforce who wanted to maintain their DXCC totals. Today, one can access personal or commercial remotes from anywhere in the world. Here's the proposal: 1. Grandfather all credits to-date -- whether they were obtained from one location, moving all over a given DXCC entity or via any type of remote 2. Revert back to DXCC being determined by station location, not the operator. To allow for local moves establish a 150 mile radius within which the station location may be moved. 3. Each operator gets to pick ONE location from which he may feed his DXCC award going forward. This can be a traditional home station, his personal remote station, or a commercial remote. But pick ONE and stick with it. No more clicking from one coast to another. Sure, there will be questions on enforceability -- but you have that now with excessive power, the all equipment within 300 meters rule, and so on. If this is a really big deal to someone, establish a DXCC OO position and scatter them around the world (like that would be a fun job!). Gotta move to a new QTH across the country and don't want to start over? -- establish a remote within 150 miles of your current location, or set one up at the local radio club for members to use. This might even encourage RHR to put remotes in all metro areas to accommodate such moves. Win-win for everyone. In the interest of transparency, if you want to weigh in on this discussion, please indicate your affiliation with any commercial remote business and/or your use/non-use of remotes to feed your awards today. Larry K5RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
My 160 TX is causing RFI to one of my baseboard heater programmable thermostats (switches modes, temperature, when I transmit). The thermostat has a 2 wire connection to 240VAC in a metal receptacle box that has a third wire common ground wire. I would like to try bypassing the AC line. Can someone suggest an appropriate (safe) capacitor for this purpose, e.g. a Digi-Key or Mouser part number? Should I use one capacitor across the 240VAC or two capacitors, one from each 120VAC line to the common wire? Thanks for the help. _ The safest bypass method for 120V is to put one 250 VAC rated cap across the line, and one more cap from neutral to safety ground. The safest method for 240V would be to use two caps, one from each 120 to neutral. Then use a single cap from neutral to safety ground if it exists. This method ensures you do not screw up any GFI stuff, and if a cap faults it faults from a hot directly to a current carrying return and not into a safety system. The caps are UL VDE CSA rated line bypasses, available from Mouser and others. I would use a 0.01 uF capacitor. They are about ten ohms on 160 meters, if I remember right. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Top Loading wires
On Wed,2/4/2015 11:09 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: T hanks for the correction, Stan. My old eyes missed that!! A 90' tower won't require much top-loading at all! Especially by the time you consider 1) it's diameter and 2) the aluminum on top that is bonded to the mast 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Antenna isolation measurements
Setup 3 below was retained (Tx antenna and 120m long beverage feed location are still 120m apart ) but the 160m inv L Tx antenna was converted into a quarterwave 80m vertical over the same radial wire field. The isolation on 80m measured 44dB. (on a freezing day) 73, Michel, ON7EH From: Michel Spelier Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 10:29 PM To: topband@contesting.com Cc: on...@skynet.be Subject: Antenna isolation measurements Prior to the CQWW160, we did some (topband) antenna isolation measurements between: -a quarterwave inv L (top at 15m down to 11m) and -a new unterminated beverage (0.8m high) of different lengths (via a 9:1 trasnformer). The Bev used PVC-covered 0.6mm thick twisted pair telephone cable. The power source consisted of the K3 (with its integrated wattmeter) feeding the inv L tru a remote-fed CG 3000 ATU. The rx was a spectrum analyser connected to the Bev. The very broad main lobe of the inv L was pointing to the Bev in all setups. Setup1: Bev length=120m inter-ant distance=35m (distance between inv L feed and Bev transformer) Isolation: 33dB. Conclusion after A/B-switching on the K3 Rx: no improved Rx noticeable and ext Rx input at risk. (too high input level) Setup2: New location Bev length=75m inter-ant distance= 120m Isolation: 50dB. Conclusion after A/B-switching on the K3 Rx: still no improved Rx noticeable but low enough input level not to use a frontend saver. Setup3: Same location as above but with much better Bev grounding than above. (added 2nd grounding bar and longer, more ground radials) Bev length increased to 120m inter-ant distance again 120m. Isolation: 43dB. The S/N of the Bev is much better than the Tx/Rx inv L for the expected heading, even signals out of the general bearing have better S/N, others are not audible or much weaker. (expected behaviour) We hope these measurements provide sufficient detail to be of help for others. Setup3 was successfully used last weekend during the CQWW160CW. It was the first time, a dedicated Rx antenna was put to use. The isolation measurement on Setup3 was done 2 days after the contest without apparent impact to the K3 ext Rx. (we expected also 50dB) 73, Michel, ON7EH _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Dave - you are correct. That very statement was rather boldly made by a prominent 160 meter person right here. That was me. It was a statement of fact. RHR requires a log in name, password, and they watch IPs. After some early abuse, they started checking to be sure the name and password come from the same IP or IP pool as the user name and password combo. When it is a foreign user, of which there are a limited number, the traffic is watched. It is highly unlikely someone used RHR, unless Dave knows of some flaw in the system. If Dave does, or if you do Joel, you should do something constructive and point out the flaw. At the time I thought about throwing the flag on that one but decided, then, not to. I know the remote folks can track ISP addresses of those connected but do not know how they can verify a station outside the country where the remote is located is identifying correctly and lawfully. RHR is getting the heat here when, factually, Dave probably hasn't the faintest idea who or what was being used and/or where the station was coming from. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Someone makes a doomsday prediction. Hearing something funny, the conclusion is it had to be via RHR. Then Joel decides if Dave said it, it must be right. W8JI has to be wrong, because Dave knows more about RHR procedures and can monitor the system better then Tom can, looking at site operation data. :-) We are not only so clairvoyant as a group that we know everything that happened with ZM enough to publically lynch him, we now are such experts on remote radio we know what system it came from. So, I'll make a bold statement hereThe remote folks don't care and will not control it as long as the are flowing in. Money talks and the rules can go to hell. What a bizarre statement! Am I wrong?? Then prove me wrong and let's see some hammering down on this by the remote folks. Unfortunately, no one can correct what is in someone else's imagination or opinion. Facts will never overcome good old fashioned emotional-driven opinions. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
On 2/4/2015 8:06 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: I doubt making a whipping boy out of someone in public will have any effect on the other 250,000 people who have done it at least once. The point is not to make a whipping boy out of a specific person but rather to point out the fact that specifically choosing to ignore the instructions of the DX operator is not good or proper operating or etiquette. One guy chose to do that feeling justified by the fact that K1N was not responding to JA callers. If everyone did the same thing, everyone would be calling. Forget the 6 in this specific case...it's the incessant calling -- by some who participate on this list -- that has to stop. The post will not stop the problem but if it starts to mitigate the problem, we'll all be better off. If no one says anything, it will never get better. 73, Greg-N4CC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: RHR
Good evening All. If someone wants to do it this way, well why not. I am on the top of the Honor-Roll 379 confrmd and all were worked within a 15 mile area. I have 192 confirmed on 160. DXCC on 7 Bands. All from a 90 X 140 foot lot. Only RX antenna on 160 is a homemade loop, Xmit antenna on RX is S9+10dB noise. We have lived here for 47 years and love our house. First license was class B in 1950 and then class A in 1951. Extra in 1968. 73 Price W0RI ps. I need Navassa onlu on 40 and 17 meters, so I won't call them. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
We could do a letter writing campaign and demand some or all the changes Larry discussed I for one am bothered greatly that all the work and effort into learning how to try to operate on the low bands now all I need is to pick the closest station to the rare DX and rent it and make the QSO I don't need to get up for sunrise and be there at sunset just get on when the dx station is on and work-em hey even if my QTH is in sunlight who cares that remote station is close so in darkness it'll count no need to do the right thing it is meaningless now and so what if there is no propagation from me to JA,BV,BY,HL etc on 6 meters I'll just pop on the closest RHR and before you know it I'll have more countries worked on 6 that anyone. Beside all that I always thought we weren't supposed to do this hobby for money,all this being said these are my opinions I am sure some shared some not Sam -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Doug Renwick Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 10:29 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N I've said this before. Let's just get rid of all this foolishness with RHR, etc. and just send the dxpedition a couple hundred dollar bills for confirmation on bands, all modes. Essentially that is what DXing is becoming for some. Yes the 'Rise and Fall of DXCC' before our vary eyes. Doug -Original Message- Here's are a couple of quotes from the Remote Ham Radio Newsletter that showed up in my mailbox today. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = As we write this newsletter the K1N team is on the air with a BIG signal. We are happy to announce that many have already snagged them on 80M and 160M with ease using the RHR network. The experienced fifteen man team is planning a 14 day stay with around the clock operation, this will give operators plenty of time to get this ATNO before they depart. If you need NAVASSA, we have the tools to help you work them, RHR has a total of seventeen sites on the air with plenty of capacity to work this super rare DXpedition. EP6T Iran DXpedition worked on 9 bands from RHR sites including the top band. FT5ZM Amsterdam Island worked on 9 Bands from RHR sites including the top band. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = No need to build a station, just buy a K3/0 and rent one. Want a 160 or 80M QSO? No problem -- rent a superstation in one of the southern states to work Navassa, South America, and entities in the South Atlantic, in Maine for EU and EP6T. Rent one on the west coast to work Oceania and Asia. This comes as close to a box-top operation as I've seen yet. Absolutely disgusting. As I've posted here, I have NO problem with someone who is stuck with nasty RF noise and antenna restrictions building a remote station near his home QTH, or even using a single remote station close to his QTH, to chase awards and contest. But this is not what Remote Ham Radio is SELLING. Anyone who doesn't think this is cheating doesn't have a clue about the true spirit of ham radio. And I've been a ham long enough to remember what that was. 73, Jim K9YC --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
Hi, Harold - well it's been a while, I know that we regularly used line bypasses in electricity meter and they had to be really robust, but I was mostly and RF and communications guy and when I had to fool with power supply designs for the meters, I generally just copied whatever was done before. Of course out there on the line side of the meter is a hellish surge environment. On guy mentioned film capacitors, but I would be a bit skeptical of those as RF bypasses. The capacitors that we used were very robust, as they had to withstand 480 volt high-line voltage or 530 VAC. And yes I have seen my share of fried line bypass capacitors in consumer electronics and radio gear. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of HAROLD SMITH JR Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:16 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Paul Christensen'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors Hi Charlie, I can remember when the Collins S-Line used .01 600volt disk ceramic capacitors on the power supply connector. They were from the AC switch to ground. They were almost always burnt and many times only the leads left. 73 Price W0RI On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 6:31 PM, Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com wrote: Hi, Paul For AC line bypass capacitors look for UL-rated Ceramic Disc capacitors that typically have AC working voltages like 250 VAC or higher. These are designed and rated for AC line service and can take the surges that occur on AC lines. Check Digi-Key, Newark and others - you'll find plenty! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:55 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors My 160 TX is causing RFI to one of my baseboard heater programmable thermostats (switches modes, temperature, when I transmit). The thermostat has a 2 wire connection to 240VAC in a metal receptacle box that has a third wire common ground wire. I would like to try bypassing the AC line. Can someone suggest an appropriate (safe) capacitor for this purpose, e.g. a Digi-Key or Mouser part number? Should I use one capacitor across the 240VAC or two capacitors, one from each 120VAC line to the common wire? Thanks for the help. _ As a substitute for X1 Y2 line caps, an in-line RFI/EMI filter can be used that already contains the X/Y-rated caps. See the bottom of p. 21: http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf These filters can often be cannibalized from old PC power supplies and discarded industrial equipment. Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: K1N last night
On Wed,2/4/2015 9:52 PM, Tree wrote: Appears none of the 160 meter QSOs from last night (Feb 4) were included in the recent log update. The online log has been running a day or so behind. And they're still in early stages of the expedition -- until today, at least, still in setup mode. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
Hi, Paul For AC line bypass capacitors look for UL-rated Ceramic Disc capacitors that typically have AC working voltages like 250 VAC or higher. These are designed and rated for AC line service and can take the surges that occur on AC lines. Check Digi-Key, Newark and others - you'll find plenty! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:55 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors My 160 TX is causing RFI to one of my baseboard heater programmable thermostats (switches modes, temperature, when I transmit). The thermostat has a 2 wire connection to 240VAC in a metal receptacle box that has a third wire common ground wire. I would like to try bypassing the AC line. Can someone suggest an appropriate (safe) capacitor for this purpose, e.g. a Digi-Key or Mouser part number? Should I use one capacitor across the 240VAC or two capacitors, one from each 120VAC line to the common wire? Thanks for the help. _ As a substitute for X1 Y2 line caps, an in-line RFI/EMI filter can be used that already contains the X/Y-rated caps. See the bottom of p. 21: http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf These filters can often be cannibalized from old PC power supplies and discarded industrial equipment. Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Just curious, not knowing anymore than I do about RHRhow do they verify that a paid user even holds a ticket. It would also be alarming to find that RHR sites are being used to stage DQRM attacks during DXpeditions. I guess crazier things have been dreamt up Cecil Sent using recycled electrons. On Feb 4, 2015, at 6:44 PM, JC n...@comcast.net wrote: RHR requires a log in name, password, and they watch IPs. After some early abuse, they started checking to be sure the name and password come from the same IP or IP pool as the user name and password combo. When it is a foreign user, of which there are a limited number, the traffic is watched. Hi Tom Yes. Everything is so clear and controlled by RHR that no one will use the remote station to work a new DXCC because they/he/she must use /p or /W4 , That use of /remote call sign makes the QSO invalid for DXCC. So, why not published the call sign of all RHR users and send it to DXCC desk! Let's make this clear and transparent. DXCC can create a new category for RHR DXCC users? Is this IT9 is a RHR customer? Regards JC N4IS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
GM OM/YL, Breaking News: ARRL Board Okays Changes to DXCC Program ARRL VOTES ON DXCC and REMOTE RULES We would like to applaud the ARRL for seeing the big picture and understanding how important the role of remote technology will play in the future of our hobby. The recommended DXAC 200km limit has been completely squashed, and the ARRL went one step further. The ARRL has lifted the ban on the requirement for a operator to be in the same DXCC entity as the transmitter for his QSO's to count! This means that if you are traveling outside the U.S. or actively serving overseas in our military, you can remote into a transmitter in the U.S. and those contacts will count towards your U.S. DXCC award. Here is a paragraph from the CEO of the ARRL Dave Sumner: It has always been permitted for a QSO to count for both stations, if either station was operated remotely from a control point within the same DXCC entity, Sumner explained. Now the location of the operator doesn't matter; the operator could be on the far side of the Moon if he or she could figure out how to remotely control a station on land back on Earth from there. Hey Dave, we are working on that! _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
AA6YQ comments below -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Doug Renwick Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 8:58 PM To: 'Tom W8JI'; 'JC'; w...@w5zn.org; 'TopBand' Subject: Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N Well thanks Tom for adding another nail to the coffin. I guess the old saying if you can't beat them, then join them got to you. You are right on one point. The abolishment of the mileage limit helped destroy the DXCC. When was the mileage limit abolished? I'm just wondering for how long DXCC has been destroyed. 73, Dave, AA6YQ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
Hi Charlie, I can remember when the Collins S-Line used .01 600volt disk ceramic capacitors on the power supply connector. They were from the AC switch to ground. They were almost always burnt and many times only the leads left. 73 Price W0RI On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 6:31 PM, Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com wrote: Hi, Paul For AC line bypass capacitors look for UL-rated Ceramic Disc capacitors that typically have AC working voltages like 250 VAC or higher. These are designed and rated for AC line service and can take the surges that occur on AC lines. Check Digi-Key, Newark and others - you'll find plenty! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:55 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors My 160 TX is causing RFI to one of my baseboard heater programmable thermostats (switches modes, temperature, when I transmit). The thermostat has a 2 wire connection to 240VAC in a metal receptacle box that has a third wire common ground wire. I would like to try bypassing the AC line. Can someone suggest an appropriate (safe) capacitor for this purpose, e.g. a Digi-Key or Mouser part number? Should I use one capacitor across the 240VAC or two capacitors, one from each 120VAC line to the common wire? Thanks for the help. _ As a substitute for X1 Y2 line caps, an in-line RFI/EMI filter can be used that already contains the X/Y-rated caps. See the bottom of p. 21: http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf These filters can often be cannibalized from old PC power supplies and discarded industrial equipment. Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Here's are a couple of quotes from the Remote Ham Radio Newsletter that showed up in my mailbox today. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = As we write this newsletter the K1N team is on the air with a BIG signal. We are happy to announce that many have already snagged them on 80M and 160M with ease using the RHR network. The experienced fifteen man team is planning a 14 day stay with around the clock operation, this will give operators plenty of time to get this ATNO before they depart. If you need NAVASSA, we have the tools to help you work them, RHR has a total of seventeen sites on the air with plenty of capacity to work this super rare DXpedition. EP6T Iran DXpedition worked on 9 bands from RHR sites including the top band. FT5ZM Amsterdam Island worked on 9 Bands from RHR sites including the top band. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = No need to build a station, just buy a K3/0 and rent one. Want a 160 or 80M QSO? No problem -- rent a superstation in one of the southern states to work Navassa, South America, and entities in the South Atlantic, in Maine for EU and EP6T. Rent one on the west coast to work Oceania and Asia. This comes as close to a box-top operation as I've seen yet. Absolutely disgusting. As I've posted here, I have NO problem with someone who is stuck with nasty RF noise and antenna restrictions building a remote station near his home QTH, or even using a single remote station close to his QTH, to chase awards and contest. But this is not what Remote Ham Radio is SELLING. Anyone who doesn't think this is cheating doesn't have a clue about the true spirit of ham radio. And I've been a ham long enough to remember what that was. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
Digikey carries Panasonic's line of ac Lin filter caps. They are Sent from my iPhone On Feb 4, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Roger Graves ve...@shaw.ca wrote: My 160 TX is causing RFI to one of my baseboard heater programmable thermostats (switches modes, temperature, when I transmit). The thermostat has a 2 wire connection to 240VAC in a metal receptacle box that has a third wire common ground wire. I would like to try bypassing the AC line. Can someone suggest an appropriate (safe) capacitor for this purpose, e.g. a Digi-Key or Mouser part number? Should I use one capacitor across the 240VAC or two capacitors, one from each 120VAC line to the common wire? Thanks for the help. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Tom - Fair enough. I'll confess I don't know how this is controlled but since your station, the W8JI station is one of the RHR Premium stations that RHR subscribers can pay to use I will take it at face value that all is well. I am very curious though (seriously) if you, as the station owner, are aware when someone is using your station via a remote connection and if you, as the station owner, knows who that individual is?? The answer to that question may help clear up some of the misunderstanding that exists regarding controls related to remote operation. 73 Joel W5ZN Dave - you are correct. That very statement was rather boldly made by a prominent 160 meter person right here. That was me. It was a statement of fact. RHR requires a log in name, password, and they watch IPs. After some early abuse, they started checking to be sure the name and password come from the same IP or IP pool as the user name and password combo. When it is a foreign user, of which there are a limited number, the traffic is watched. It is highly unlikely someone used RHR, unless Dave knows of some flaw in the system. If Dave does, or if you do Joel, you should do something constructive and point out the flaw. At the time I thought about throwing the flag on that one but decided, then, not to. I know the remote folks can track ISP addresses of those connected but do not know how they can verify a station outside the country where the remote is located is identifying correctly and lawfully. RHR is getting the heat here when, factually, Dave probably hasn't the faintest idea who or what was being used and/or where the station was coming from. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Someone makes a doomsday prediction. Hearing something funny, the conclusion is it had to be via RHR. Then Joel decides if Dave said it, it must be right. W8JI has to be wrong, because Dave knows more about RHR procedures and can monitor the system better then Tom can, looking at site operation data. :-) We are not only so clairvoyant as a group that we know everything that happened with ZM enough to publically lynch him, we now are such experts on remote radio we know what system it came from. So, I'll make a bold statement hereThe remote folks don't care and will not control it as long as the are flowing in. Money talks and the rules can go to hell. What a bizarre statement! Am I wrong?? Then prove me wrong and let's see some hammering down on this by the remote folks. Unfortunately, no one can correct what is in someone else's imagination or opinion. Facts will never overcome good old fashioned emotional-driven opinions. 73 Tom www.w5zn.org _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
RHR requires a log in name, password, and they watch IPs. After some early abuse, they started checking to be sure the name and password come from the same IP or IP pool as the user name and password combo. When it is a foreign user, of which there are a limited number, the traffic is watched. Hi Tom Yes. Everything is so clear and controlled by RHR that no one will use the remote station to work a new DXCC because they/he/she must use /p or /W4 , That use of /remote call sign makes the QSO invalid for DXCC. So, why not published the call sign of all RHR users and send it to DXCC desk! Let's make this clear and transparent. DXCC can create a new category for RHR DXCC users? Is this IT9 is a RHR customer? I wouldn't know who their customers are, or how many customers they have. I only care how someone can use my station. I don't really understand the fuss. The last good DXCC's were when we had a mileage limit. Even then, someone could use a second site. It was actually common to use second sites. W1BU did it from a swamp, even W1BB had two stations. People used BC towers, it wasn't their stuff. One guy used a VOA antenna system. Everyone used to admire that. People would go to other stations as far back as I can remember. People come here and operate all the time. They work new countries. Now, suddenly, it is so unfair. How can we survive? 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Here is one statement posted at a RHR website ◦100% anonymous operation How is someone going to get around that? Doug -Original Message- RHR requires a log in name, password, and they watch IPs. After some early abuse, they started checking to be sure the name and password come from the same IP or IP pool as the user name and password combo. When it is a foreign user, of which there are a limited number, the traffic is watched. Hi Tom Yes. Everything is so clear and controlled by RHR that no one will use the remote station to work a new DXCC because they/he/she must use /p or /W4 , That use of /remote call sign makes the QSO invalid for DXCC. So, why not published the call sign of all RHR users and send it to DXCC desk! Let's make this clear and transparent. DXCC can create a new category for RHR DXCC users? Is this IT9 is a RHR customer? Regards JC N4IS --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
W8JI: The last good DXCC's were when we had a mileage limit. Even then, someone could use a second site. It was actually common to use second sites. W1BU did it from a swamp, even W1BB had two stations. Just for the record, it is true that W1BB had two stations, but they were in the same town (Winthrop, MA) and literally minutes apart. One station was at his home, which was on a tiny, postage stamp lot. He did most, if not all, of his serious 160m DXing from the famous water tower location overlooking the ocean. I had the good fortune to visit Stew and see both places back in the 1970's when he was active. The times I heard him operating on 160 from the water tower QTH, he would sign W1BB/1 to indicate he was not at the home station. 73, John W1FV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Yes I couldn't agree more. Most interesting was seeing the call signs belonging to the lynch mob posted here and in private mailings to me. And believe me, some were of well known DXers. Doug I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could. -Original Message- snip I don't like where this reflector has headed. I don't care what ZM appeared to have done, ripping someone apart here is just as tasteless as anything ZM might have done. 73 Tom --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
On Wed,2/4/2015 5:48 PM, Tom W8JI wrote: Where were the complaints when the radius rule was dropped, I was inactive, running my consulting biz and having a family life. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Plate Designs - dual hole compression lugs
http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/burndy/search/YA*FX* this is just the top line manufacturer of compression lugs, the link should take you to the page for dual hole lugs Similar products are available from a number of suppliers. All the major communications hardware suppliers have a variety - Talley, Tessco, SitePro1, to name just a few Be prepared for sticker shock, These are NOT your surplus or swap meet lugs Sitepro probably has them at the lowest price in small (or large ) quantity http://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_listc=15 this list shows both single and double hole, long and short shank They also have galvanized bolts and nuts - and stainless - to bolt it all together with. Fanatics use silicon bronze bolts, nuts, washers when making a ground system - usually for surge/lightening reduction grounding systems, but they will work just fine for a radial system. Robin WA6CDR - Original Message - From: Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com To: Topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 10:57 Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Plate Designs I've never seen the dual hole lugs but they certainly would stop the attachments from moving. I like the idea. I made my own radial plate from a 18 x 18 x 3/16 SS plate with a square hole cut in the center for a butternut to be placed. I have 20 1/4 holes cut in per side. I used SS bolts, split ring keepers on each side of the plate, washers nuts. I used Penatrox on both sides of the plate inbetwixt all connections. For solder to the radials I used non-lead plumbing solder and assembled this 4 or 5 years ago. It rests on a bog on a salt water marsh, one that was under salt water thanks to Hurricane Sandy (My Ameritron RCS-8V used to select which antenna wire to use was just barely above the water and spared damage). This fall I went down to check the connections and remove the debris that accumulates on the plate, it was totally covered by dirt and organic material. In these rather harsh conditions I can say there was no visible oxidation whatsoever on the solder, had I used lead, it would have been significant. The 60 or so 130' radials were firmly attached albeit several nuts did turn a bit as I tightened them down. The Penetrox was still obviously present and the only sign of damage was oxidation to the exposed copper braids at the end of all coax leading to the 5 different antenna. I replaced the coax and all is good for another year. How I get my wires over the trees you can see at the bottom of my QRZ page. In summary; - In Salt Marsh/Salt water conditions SS plate is ideal as long as the hardware also is SS. - Leadless plumbing solder is an excellent choice for durability and secure attachment to the radials. - Not sure if the use of split ring keepers are necessary but due to the slipperiness of the Penatrox I decided to use them to gain a better purchase while tightening the bolts. Essentially, the connections have remained secure for the last 4-5 years. 73, Gary KA1J --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Now, suddenly, it is so unfair. There have always been the ethically-challenged among us. No one is denying that. What I sense is a realization by many that DXCC, a program that some of us naively believed was a credible accomplishment worth investing time and energy in, has spun totally and permanently out of control. This is something that has been building for a long time -- There WERE complaints when the radius rule was dropped -- and the concept of commercial remotes was the straw that broke the camel's back for many. Tom, you indicate you are not that passionate about chasing awards. Some people are. Will they die tomorrow if the rules don't go their way? No. But please don't belittle them with comments like I think anyone who bases their success or value in life by how they rank in something as silly as a national DXCC list, or worrying about someone making 50 more contacts in a contest, deserves all the angst and distress worrying about others creates for them. All anyone is trying to do here is come to a reasonably equitable solution to maintaining some degree of integrity for the awards program. It is truly unfortunate that the DXAC's recommendation seems to have been ignored and the most recent decision was made by the Board -- most of whom are not serious DXers -- without substantial input from the DXing community. - Larry K5RK (no affiliation with a commercial remote business) _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Dave... I actually addressed most of this with a proposal earlier today on how DXCC could be changed to accommodate these situations. If you didn't see it, I can forward you a copy. - Larry K5RK -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:00 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N Remote operation was made legal for DXCC in 1998. At that time, the distance constraint established was within the same DXCC entity. 17 years later, tightening the distance constraint would be challenging. What do you say to the DXer who is legally or topographically unable to establish a useful station on his or her home property and so spent thousands of dollars to acquire land and setup a remote station, possibly based on how to articles in ARRL publications? No matter what distance limit you now choose, some of those ops would no longer be able to use their remote stations. There is also the issue of QSOs made with remote stations beyond the tightened distance limit during the past 17 years. Are they invalidated, with awards retracted? Or are they grandfathered, creating a new fairness issue. In the absence of a time machine, our only recourse is to move forward. Some DXers pursue DXCC awards with QRO, while others use QRP. Some use digital modes like RTTY, while others (who enjoy watching paint dry) use the incredibly sensitive JT modes. The DXCC playing field has never been remotely level, and freezing technology at any point in time won't level it. Internet-based remote stations are just another option that some DXers will use and others will not. The op who worked them all with QRP and wire antennas from a shack beneath the auroral oval in Northern Canada will always have bragging rights over the op did so using a big amp with stacked monobanders and low-band receiving arrays from a QTH on the geomagnetic equator. Internet-based remote operation won't change that. 73, Dave, AA6YQ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
Digikey carries the Panasonic ECQ-UL series film capacitors that are rated for use as ac line bypass caps. I've used them before in thyristor (triacs, in this case) phase control drivers. They are durable and inexpensive. They are generally either 250vac or 275vac rated. -Bill Sent from my iPhone On Feb 4, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Roger Graves ve...@shaw.ca wrote: My 160 TX is causing RFI to one of my baseboard heater programmable thermostats (switches modes, temperature, when I transmit). The thermostat has a 2 wire connection to 240VAC in a metal receptacle box that has a third wire common ground wire. I would like to try bypassing the AC line. Can someone suggest an appropriate (safe) capacitor for this purpose, e.g. a Digi-Key or Mouser part number? Should I use one capacitor across the 240VAC or two capacitors, one from each 120VAC line to the common wire? Thanks for the help. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AC line bypass capacitors
To add to this, I used 1,000vac rated ceramic caps in a VFD once some years back and they failed in spectacular fashion. This was in a 277vac system. Such caps should NOT be used on the AC line! Use the ones intended for AC line filtering. They tend to be film caps and they are intended for this purpose. -Bill Sent from my iPhone On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:01 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On Wed,2/4/2015 4:30 PM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: For AC line bypass capacitors look for UL-rated Ceramic Disc capacitors that typically have AC working voltages like 250 VAC or higher. These are designed and rated for AC line service and can take the surges that occur on AC lines. WRONG! As noted in an earlier post, capacitors for use on the AC line must be rated specifically for that use, which includes continuous 120VAC or 240VAC, AND the ability to withstand voltage spikes in the range of 3-6kV. The types are X1 and Y2. See page 21 in k9yc.com/RFI-Ham.pdf 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
By using Tor or Vidalia which provides total anonymity to internet users, It is free and it also provides protection form illicit IP tracking. Herb, KV4FZ On 2/4/2015 9:19 PM, Doug Renwick wrote: Here is one statement posted at a RHR website ◦100% anonymous operation How is someone going to get around that? Doug -Original Message- RHR requires a log in name, password, and they watch IPs. After some early abuse, they started checking to be sure the name and password come from the same IP or IP pool as the user name and password combo. When it is a foreign user, of which there are a limited number, the traffic is watched. Hi Tom Yes. Everything is so clear and controlled by RHR that no one will use the remote station to work a new DXCC because they/he/she must use /p or /W4 , That use of /remote call sign makes the QSO invalid for DXCC. So, why not published the call sign of all RHR users and send it to DXCC desk! Let's make this clear and transparent. DXCC can create a new category for RHR DXCC users? Is this IT9 is a RHR customer? Regards JC N4IS --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
Well thanks Tom for adding another nail to the coffin. I guess the old saying if you can't beat them, then join them got to you. You are right on one point. The abolishment of the mileage limit helped destroy the DXCC. Doug -Original Message- I wouldn't know who their customers are, or how many customers they have. I only care how someone can use my station. I don't really understand the fuss. The last good DXCC's were when we had a mileage limit. Even then, someone could use a second site. It was actually common to use second sites. W1BU did it from a swamp, even W1BB had two stations. People used BC towers, it wasn't their stuff. One guy used a VOA antenna system. Everyone used to admire that. People would go to other stations as far back as I can remember. People come here and operate all the time. They work new countries. Now, suddenly, it is so unfair. How can we survive? 73 Tom --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: K1N
I have worked K1N on all bands 10 - 160m (not bragging) from my home only station (bragging) that I can easily see from my back yard. And no I don't live on the east coast but in the northern mid west. Don't waste time commenting on this on topband. Doug There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual or lawyer could believe them. - George Orwell, 1984 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
I hold no malice against KK6ZM whatsoever!! After all this is only a hobby. Several years ago I was laying the pipe on 80 CW chasing a rare one with marginal copy.. I got an e-mail from a DXer saying that I was calling out of turn. I could have replied with a standard military FOXTROT UNITED but I did not. I simply said that in the heat of battle one sometimes forgets.. This is not a capital offense... Let's move on from this nonsense.. Many decades ago Buck Joyner (W4TO, SK about 1970) was on 20 AM. A DXer came in and said W4TO, you are wide... Buck came back and said I'm not wide, I'm just loud with that pair of 4-1,000A's!!! 73, John, W4NU K4JAG (1959 to 1998) On 2/3/2015 5:30 PM, Bill and Liz wrote: Perhaps the REAL problem began with the guys in the chat room urging him on when common sense would have dictated that he refrain from transmitting until K1N cleared the field for NA callers. I had my gut full of chat rooms when a topband friend was flamed morning after morning on the ON_by a few topband gurus. Perhaps this same crew urged KK6ZM on to call when he did when he otherwise might have waited. Too bad he was pilloried on the reflectorhe was only one of several who were guilty of a multitude of offenses last night and this morning. Bill VE3CSK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Well said. I'm glad Milt posted what he did, but I'm tired of hearing all of this complaining. Ham radio is supposed to be fun. Let's choose happiness, instead of continually hitting the 're-play' button so we can stay mired in the unchangeable past. BTW, K1N was almost S9 here at 4 AM local time! :-) 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:45 AM, John Harden, D.M.D. jh...@bellsouth.net wrote: I hold no malice against KK6ZM whatsoever!! After all this is only a hobby... This is not a capital offense... Let's move on from this nonsense.. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Well said Tom. Also it was doubtful there was actually a significant JA opening to K1N. IMHO the buzz of JA activity could have occurred by a remote JA station heard in the Midwest at 599 plus 10db who apparently got in the log, but not from Japan. But other observers heard JA's calling but it was also obvious there was no opening to speak of. George AA7JV was not on the island yet due to bad sea conditions. He was chosen as the weak signal guru and made careful planning to even put up SW Beverages to bring in JA's if that wonderful skew path exists like it did for me last month. With the TX antenna, an inverted Vee at 160 feet ABG this was most likely the RX antenna as well. I believe that anyone having difficulties will see improvements when the better RX are in place. I would add that if Geroge (AA7JV) can't do it it would seem hard pressed to find someone who could. K1N had a very good early TB opening to Europe last night and at least 60 got in the log, probably more as I stopped counting. The EU S/R was a different story. The good news is that everyone will have multiple chances of working KP1 on TB. The bad news is that the public flogging had to take place out of one brother amateur for a common occurrence. Now what happens if he is the TB operator from PRNK when they open up? You better hope he hasn't kept a list of all those that doth protest to much. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 2/4/2015 9:06 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: Calling out of turn not only is one of the least damaging things and most common things someone might do. As a matter of fact, assuming the DX stations has a reasonable bandwidth CW filter, out of turn calling is thousands of times less disruptive to others than transmitting on the DX station's frequency, or spreading a pile up over 15-20 kHz. I doubt making a whipping boy out of someone in public will have any effect on the other 250,000 people who have done it at least once. A simple email direct to the person would have been more reasonable than a public two day flogging. Are we getting cranking and set in our ways, or what? :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Calling out of turn not only is one of the least damaging things and most common things someone might do. As a matter of fact, assuming the DX stations has a reasonable bandwidth CW filter, out of turn calling is thousands of times less disruptive to others than transmitting on the DX station's frequency, or spreading a pile up over 15-20 kHz. I doubt making a whipping boy out of someone in public will have any effect on the other 250,000 people who have done it at least once. A simple email direct to the person would have been more reasonable than a public two day flogging. Are we getting cranking and set in our ways, or what? :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Full disclosure
I awoke well before sunrise as usual today and, before I had 2 sips from my coffee, found K1N on 40 CW and started calling. Moments later I realized I had neglected to hit the SPLIT button! My apologies to all for this transgression, which I'm sure was not the first time. My fitting punishment was that they shortly after started listening for JA only. I went back to 160 where I belong, and where I am always thankful for the helpful nudges from friends on the ON4KST low band chat when my operating goes astray. 73/Jon AA1K Delaware -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2015 8:06 AM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers Calling out of turn not only is one of the least damaging things and most common things someone might do. .. Are we getting cranking and set in our ways, or what? :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Herb, That is NOT the case. I sat here with the K1N transmissions in one ear and the requested JA call-in frequency playing in the other ear. There were at a minimum 20 JA stations calling. They were hearing K1N well enough that their transmissions were right in step with K1N. I personally heard 2 separate complete Qs between K1N and JA stations. I personally heard K1N get partials on two or three other JA stations but was unable to complete the contacts. It was during this period of time that the K1N operator specifically asked the aforementioned station, by call sign prefix, to PSE STDBY FOR JA. As for a significant JA opening; IMHO any opening is significant for the DX operator AND the folks at the other end of a difficult path. I am positive the K1N operators feel the same. That is what Topband is all about. I know, because I was in that position at XZ1N, XZ0A, and VP6DX. It doesn't matter if it is only one or two stations that make it. The effort is expended and the reward is highly prized. That is why the DXpedition is there. Instead of putting 5 or 6 call signs in the log, the rate drops to one every 3-4-5 minutes as necessary. That is what makes a Topband DXpedition successful. IMHO possibly 2-3 contacts, perhaps more, with JA were interrupted by the deliberate refusal to standby. Additionally, without the benefit of staying on Navassa for a full lunar cycle the odds of getting a true -- SIGNIFICANT -- opening to JA and the deep Pacific are only about 30%. Every single opportunity to put a few JA and other Asians in the log must be exploited to the max. That is what the K1N operator was attempting to do. Again, my experience at XZ0A shows how important this SOP should be for DX operators. We spent 4 weeks on the island and it was the VERY LAST NIGHT that finally produced the magnificent opening to North America. In this case with K1N, the NA stations are going to have a great opportunity EVERY NIGHT! There is not, and there was not, any need for the action that took place yesterday morning. 73 for now de Milt, N5IA -Original Message- From: Herbert Schoenbohm Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:49 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers Also it was doubtful there was actually a significant JA opening to K1N. IMHO the buzz of JA activity could have occurred by a remote JA station heard in the Midwest at 599 plus 10db who apparently got in the log, but not from Japan. But other observers heard JA's calling but it was also obvious there was no opening to speak of. CUT Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4281/9056 - Release Date: 02/04/15 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
The lynch mob is clearly out to get KK6ZM when he apparently did NOTHING WRONG. The mob is yelling 'crucify him', 'crucify him'. It began with a biased post that failed to see the whole picture and the mob ran with it. Some of the posts have displayed a surprising level of ignorance to the events. Yet the mob wishes to ignore the facts. One said I'm glad Milt posted what he did. Wrong - that should NEVER have been posted in it's form. Another said This is not a capital offense Wrong - In the situation it was NOT an offence at all. Another said He made a mistake. Wrong - he did NOT make a mistake. He was following the operators implied instructions when calling for JA and working stateside instead. Another said no chance he'll make that mistake again. Wrong - he did NOT make a mistake. And this from someone who could be a mob leader as a matter of courtesy i sent KK6ZM a personal email suggesting that his behavior was totally wrong when calling K1N and that an apology on the topband reflector would be in order. I could go on but I have made my point. Tom, like you, I find this whole mess unsportsmanlike. People taking their inner hate out on someone who did nothing wrong. People's nature has not changed in thousands of years. All this in a hobby that is supposed to be fun. You mobsters make me sick. Doug -Original Message- Calling out of turn not only is one of the least damaging things and most common things someone might do. As a matter of fact, assuming the DX stations has a reasonable bandwidth CW filter, out of turn calling is thousands of times less disruptive to others than transmitting on the DX station's frequency, or spreading a pile up over 15-20 kHz. I doubt making a whipping boy out of someone in public will have any effect on the other 250,000 people who have done it at least once. A simple email direct to the person would have been more reasonable than a public two day flogging. Are we getting cranking and set in our ways, or what? :) 73 Tom --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Hi Guys, We're all flogging a dead horse here---enough already. People do make mistakes---did anyone not read Jon's (AA1K) ...confessional here earlier?---s**t happens. Get over it. I really am amazed at the herd mentality displayed by people, assembling to viciously ceaselessly attack any one individual for a perceived faux pas: years ago I was afflicted with a dilemma that I was really truly wrestling to understand, and to correct---KEY CLICKS, to be exact... I endured countless anonymous transmissions of KLIX directed my way at the end of my transmissions, and the gang had a gay ol' time lambasting me on the chat room over my perceived selfishness, and insolence...and all this, DESPITE my repeated please for guidance / help / advice / ANYTHING as to how I might correct my situation, and in so doing not be a continued nuisance to others on 160... But just how many of the resident self-styled experts and gurus stepped forward to assist me...? NONE. Only ONE GUY kindly stepped forward to critically assess my keying, and to give me his experienced assessments---ONE. And he was hardly one of the usual blow-hard, opinionated members of the crowd. In fact, far from it. So if I have a personal bone to pick in all this melee, so be it. I will admit that I was probably one of the first to jump on top of the accused yesterday---but in light of other information that I learned of later, I apologized to the individual, and he graciously accepted it. So again, enough is enough: we ALL are capable of making mistakes, either through some fault of our own, or by the direction of others---but remember, this IS supposed to be, after all, The Gentleman's Band, and gentlemen aren't supposed to harbour grudges. ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Radial Plate Designs
I've long thought about designing a radial plate that addresses some significant limitations with currently available product. Specially, every commercially available radial plate uses single-hole lugs to attach a radial wire to the plate. The problem is that with upwards of 60+ lugs in harms way of accidental contact, single-hole lugs are very susceptible to rotation and loosening. In the link below, you'll see a different kind of radial plate that makes use of double-hole lugs. http://tinyurl.com/pykx44x Around the perimeter of the plate, you'll see 120 paired holes in addition to an extra set of corner lugs for system grounding. This is the type of ground attachment required at Bellcore hardened facilities (now Telcordia). When I was with ATT Broadband Engineering, every ground bond at its fiber optic-hub sites required two-hole lugs to pass compliance testing. Once tightened, the lug cannot spin loose. Over time, the connection maintains much better mechanical and electrical contact with the plate. A typical two-hole lug looks like this: http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/T_B/70092228.pdf Although this plate has pairing for 120 radials, the plate can be scaled down to sizes of 30, 60, and 90 radials. Each hole is tapped for a 1/4 inch bolt - which does not preclude use of an additional nut on the back side of the plate. The center area has mounting for various angled plates to mount saddle brackets, antenna connectors, etc. Before anyone with a related patent takes issue with this, I not making, nor supplying these plates. Rather, the design file(s) will be made available to anyone who may wish to use and modify at-will. The user can select plate thickness, remove the double lugs and replace with single lugs, remove tapping, etc. Frankly, these plates are just too costly to produce + make any semblance of a profit. The plate shown in single quantities from the manufacturer is about USD $500. The price of 120 double lugs? One can expect to add $200 even in large quantities. But the plate price drops quite a bit when a lesser number of radials are used and hole tapping is removed. The purpose of this message is to seek additional input for ideas. I may create a set of files that range in a low-to-high manufacturing price, depending on interest. *Please send any ideas directly to me and not the list.* Finally, we all know that a radial ring can be created using nothing but heavy copper wire. I get it. This is for the person who wants a premium radial plate with lug connections. Thanks. Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Top Loading wires
Could someone tell me the length of top loading wires (4 wires planned) needed to add to the top of a base insulated 90 foot Rohn 25g tower to maximize the radiation resistance on 160 meters. I understand there is a point of diminishing returns on the top loading lengths. The 4 wire angles will be around 45 degrees or as close as possible.If I knew how to model ,or even had a modeling program, I would attempt this already relatively simple task to many. From 50+ years of practical experience, I am ‘guessing’ maybe 28 feet long each? _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
everyone would be calling. Forget the 6 in this specific case...it's the incessant calling -- by some who participate on this list -- that has to stop. The post will not stop the problem but if it starts to mitigate the problem, we'll all be better off. If no one says anything, it will never get better. None of us should call when we hear the DX station specify a restricted response and we do not fit. I doubt, however, that anyone but the DX operator can change the common policy of calling out of restriction. The moment a DX station works just one out-of-request call, it sends the message to ignore the restriction. We all know this stuff. Like DXCC and other things, we just like to complain about the other guy. We are just a bunch of cranky old men. :) _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Plate Designs
A different idea than lug connections, is to use load-center style ground bars bolted to the metal plate. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-23-Terminal-Load-Center-Ground-Bar-Kit-PK23GTACP/100129430 I fully agree this is not up to Bellcore grounding standards. But seems much more ham-amenable, especially for those of us who unroll many of our random-gauge radial wires across driveways and lawns on contest weekends and hook up in cold weather - the clamp screws in the ground bars are easily worked with a screwdriver in a gloved hand and accomodate any random-sized-style conductor. Tim N3QE On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net wrote: I've long thought about designing a radial plate that addresses some significant limitations with currently available product. Specially, every commercially available radial plate uses single-hole lugs to attach a radial wire to the plate. The problem is that with upwards of 60+ lugs in harms way of accidental contact, single-hole lugs are very susceptible to rotation and loosening. In the link below, you'll see a different kind of radial plate that makes use of double-hole lugs. http://tinyurl.com/pykx44x Around the perimeter of the plate, you'll see 120 paired holes in addition to an extra set of corner lugs for system grounding. This is the type of ground attachment required at Bellcore hardened facilities (now Telcordia). When I was with ATT Broadband Engineering, every ground bond at its fiber optic-hub sites required two-hole lugs to pass compliance testing. Once tightened, the lug cannot spin loose. Over time, the connection maintains much better mechanical and electrical contact with the plate. A typical two-hole lug looks like this: http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/T_B/70092228.pdf Although this plate has pairing for 120 radials, the plate can be scaled down to sizes of 30, 60, and 90 radials. Each hole is tapped for a 1/4 inch bolt - which does not preclude use of an additional nut on the back side of the plate. The center area has mounting for various angled plates to mount saddle brackets, antenna connectors, etc. Before anyone with a related patent takes issue with this, I not making, nor supplying these plates. Rather, the design file(s) will be made available to anyone who may wish to use and modify at-will. The user can select plate thickness, remove the double lugs and replace with single lugs, remove tapping, etc. Frankly, these plates are just too costly to produce + make any semblance of a profit. The plate shown in single quantities from the manufacturer is about USD $500. The price of 120 double lugs? One can expect to add $200 even in large quantities. But the plate price drops quite a bit when a lesser number of radials are used and hole tapping is removed. The purpose of this message is to seek additional input for ideas. I may create a set of files that range in a low-to-high manufacturing price, depending on interest. *Please send any ideas directly to me and not the list.* Finally, we all know that a radial ring can be created using nothing but heavy copper wire. I get it. This is for the person who wants a premium radial plate with lug connections. Thanks. Paul, W9AC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Proposal for Modification of DXCC Rules
Larry -- I think your proposal provides the basis for a very workable solution and hope you will forward this idea to ARRL. I don't think the BOD gave this subject adequate consideration but your ideas offer a guidepost for what is ethical. While some will still cheat, most will follow the rules as they are proposed. I'm sure there will be some discussion on what is the right distance but that's a minor issue in my view. I think virtually everyone is interested in maintaining the integrity of DXCC. I don't think we need two awards -- just better rules to govern what maintains the spirit of how the award is achieved. Thanks for your post! 73, Greg-N4CC On 2/4/2015 2:50 PM, Larry Burke wrote: A few days ago someone on the reflector suggested if you don't like the DXCC rules get them changed. Here's a proposal designed to maintain a certain amount of integrity in the DXCC program while allowing for the use of remotes, both personal and commercial. This should help those in HOA-restricted communities, those whose careers require frequent moves/travel and, in some cases, advance technical knowledge of the licensee -- all the arguments one hears defending the use of remotes. Back when the DXCC rules were changed to eliminate the requirement that all contacts must be made from within a 150 (?) mile radius to all contacts must be made from within the same entity the hobby was in a much different place. The changes were made, in part, to accommodate an increasingly mobile workforce who wanted to maintain their DXCC totals. Today, one can access personal or commercial remotes from anywhere in the world. Here's the proposal: 1. Grandfather all credits to-date -- whether they were obtained from one location, moving all over a given DXCC entity or via any type of remote 2. Revert back to DXCC being determined by station location, not the operator. To allow for local moves establish a 150 mile radius within which the station location may be moved. 3. Each operator gets to pick ONE location from which he may feed his DXCC award going forward. This can be a traditional home station, his personal remote station, or a commercial remote. But pick ONE and stick with it. No more clicking from one coast to another. Sure, there will be questions on enforceability -- but you have that now with excessive power, the all equipment within 300 meters rule, and so on. If this is a really big deal to someone, establish a DXCC OO position and scatter them around the world (like that would be a fun job!). Gotta move to a new QTH across the country and don't want to start over? -- establish a remote within 150 miles of your current location, or set one up at the local radio club for members to use. This might even encourage RHR to put remotes in all metro areas to accommodate such moves. Win-win for everyone. In the interest of transparency, if you want to weigh in on this discussion, please indicate your affiliation with any commercial remote business and/or your use/non-use of remotes to feed your awards today. Larry K5RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
I've said this before. Let's just get rid of all this foolishness with RHR, etc. and just send the dxpedition a couple hundred dollar bills for confirmation on bands, all modes. Essentially that is what DXing is becoming for some. Yes the 'Rise and Fall of DXCC' before our vary eyes. Doug -Original Message- Here's are a couple of quotes from the Remote Ham Radio Newsletter that showed up in my mailbox today. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = As we write this newsletter the K1N team is on the air with a BIG signal. We are happy to announce that many have already snagged them on 80M and 160M with ease using the RHR network. The experienced fifteen man team is planning a 14 day stay with around the clock operation, this will give operators plenty of time to get this ATNO before they depart. If you need NAVASSA, we have the tools to help you work them, RHR has a total of seventeen sites on the air with plenty of capacity to work this super rare DXpedition. EP6T Iran DXpedition worked on 9 bands from RHR sites including the top band. FT5ZM Amsterdam Island worked on 9 Bands from RHR sites including the top band. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = No need to build a station, just buy a K3/0 and rent one. Want a 160 or 80M QSO? No problem -- rent a superstation in one of the southern states to work Navassa, South America, and entities in the South Atlantic, in Maine for EU and EP6T. Rent one on the west coast to work Oceania and Asia. This comes as close to a box-top operation as I've seen yet. Absolutely disgusting. As I've posted here, I have NO problem with someone who is stuck with nasty RF noise and antenna restrictions building a remote station near his home QTH, or even using a single remote station close to his QTH, to chase awards and contest. But this is not what Remote Ham Radio is SELLING. Anyone who doesn't think this is cheating doesn't have a clue about the true spirit of ham radio. And I've been a ham long enough to remember what that was. 73, Jim K9YC --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Plate Designs - dual hole compression lugs
Panduit makes these type of lugs too. Some wholesale electric supply houses have them but you want the copper ones, not the aluminum kind. They are both plated and look the same, but the copper ones are noticeably heavier. You need a hydraulic compression tool to install them and the correct die for each lug (dieless crimpers aren't as good). The hydraulic tools show up on eBay for $200+, dies are about $60-100 each. We use these in the telecom industry for grounding and dc power cable. The silicon bronze hardware used to be required. It was used for corrosion resistance and because it doesn't react with battery fumes in power rooms. Stainless hardware is now also acceptable. You should not use galvanized hardware with these lugs except indoors and then it should be grade 5 by code. You use a flat washer on either side and a split lock washer with the nut. Best practice is to use the brown no-ox as a film between the lug and whatever you attach it too. Done this way the connection will last forever. Note that you need one crimp between each set of colored bands on the lug for a proper installation. Check out c-taps and h-taps too. These and cadweld shots are the only right way to do a proper ground system for high currents. All that said, I just solder my own radials :-) I do use the compression lugs and c-taps for my lightning ground ring. At work I always spec these for anything critical (dc plant, ups, generator, etc.). They cost more than mechanical (Allen screw) lugs but they're maintenance free and last forever when installed correctly. If anyone does want to use these be aware that some of the lugs have minor differences in their hole spacings but major price differences. I know from my own experience that the two-hole 750kcmil lug with 1 hole spacing is around $40 each but the same thing with 1.75 spacing is about $17 each. I think the price differences are due to market volume differences but for ham purposes it is worth finding which is the cheapest hole arrangement and then designing around that. NEMA standard spacing is 1.75 for most of the larger lug sizes. -Bill Sent from my iPad On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:48 PM, m.r. mr...@kinderteacher.com wrote: http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/burndy/search/YA*FX* this is just the top line manufacturer of compression lugs, the link should take you to the page for dual hole lugs Similar products are available from a number of suppliers. All the major communications hardware suppliers have a variety - Talley, Tessco, SitePro1, to name just a few Be prepared for sticker shock, These are NOT your surplus or swap meet lugs Sitepro probably has them at the lowest price in small (or large ) quantity http://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_listc=15 this list shows both single and double hole, long and short shank They also have galvanized bolts and nuts - and stainless - to bolt it all together with. Fanatics use silicon bronze bolts, nuts, washers when making a ground system - usually for surge/lightening reduction grounding systems, but they will work just fine for a radial system. Robin WA6CDR - Original Message - From: Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com To: Topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 10:57 Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Plate Designs I've never seen the dual hole lugs but they certainly would stop the attachments from moving. I like the idea. I made my own radial plate from a 18 x 18 x 3/16 SS plate with a square hole cut in the center for a butternut to be placed. I have 20 1/4 holes cut in per side. I used SS bolts, split ring keepers on each side of the plate, washers nuts. I used Penatrox on both sides of the plate inbetwixt all connections. For solder to the radials I used non-lead plumbing solder and assembled this 4 or 5 years ago. It rests on a bog on a salt water marsh, one that was under salt water thanks to Hurricane Sandy (My Ameritron RCS-8V used to select which antenna wire to use was just barely above the water and spared damage). This fall I went down to check the connections and remove the debris that accumulates on the plate, it was totally covered by dirt and organic material. In these rather harsh conditions I can say there was no visible oxidation whatsoever on the solder, had I used lead, it would have been significant. The 60 or so 130' radials were firmly attached albeit several nuts did turn a bit as I tightened them down. The Penetrox was still obviously present and the only sign of damage was oxidation to the exposed copper braids at the end of all coax leading to the 5 different antenna. I replaced the coax and all is good for another year. How I get my wires over the trees you can see at the bottom of my QRZ page. In summary; - In Salt Marsh/Salt water conditions SS plate is ideal as long as the hardware also is SS. - Leadless plumbing solder is an excellent choice for
Re: Topband: Foreign stns using NA remotes for K1N
I don't have a dog in this hunt, I haven't used RHR but reading some of the comments got me to thinking that things seem to progress on a logical plane; If you control your radio from your computer say with N1MM during a contest or use one of the SDR radios with software guiding the radio, are you not running your radio remotely? If one wants to say it is OK to use N1MM or any other software to control your radio if it's inside your house then you are agreeing that distance from the rig itself is acceptable, the disagreement then is to define how much distance is too much. I'm sure there are many purists who feel using computers ruined contesting and surely there are those who feel computers ruined the essence of DXCC. Obviously achieving DXCC has changed as anyone doing so for years understands. When I made my first 100, all was done by coming on the DX on my own, some guys got calls from a phone tree but I had no tree I was part of. Then there came packet and Bulletin boards. Later Internet Relay Chatrooms later came the internet with spotting networks. With today's radios, internet DSP and improved Rx technology, it's obviously far easier today to work DXCC than ever before. How many of us today wait for our tube receivers to warm up before listening? It's simply not the same and won't be the same again. So to me, I take the grumbling I'm hearing being more like sour grapes from those who paid a lot of sweat and failures to get the eventual successes they earned after years of hard work. The idea of other hams using available technology to do what they took years to do is offensive and to them, seen as cheapening the goal. Honestly, if you were a millionaire back when or today and wanted to build a shack and antenna farm to be better than 99.99% of the guys out there, you could do it all along. The rest of us couldn't do it and envied the big guns, got angry at them for dining at the DX table before the rest of us could go after the leftovers. It's always been unfair to the little guy, always will be, that's life. To me, if a signal comes from anywhere in the continental USA, it's a USA contact. If it comes from one island or the other in Hawaii, it's a KH6 contact. I personally don't care how the person makes the contact. As to DX calling from one country and pretending to be at their home QTH, there have always been fatuous liars and cheats, that too is human nature. Those people are to be pitied, they know what their illegal QSO is worth and what their illegal DXCC credit is worth, some people want letters associated with their name and they don't care how they get them. IMHO they should get called for that transgression, That's life too. MY DXCC chase is my joy, I don't gauge it by anyone else's expectations any more than they give a rats patoot about my opinion. My 2 cents. 73, Gary KA1J --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
