Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Volker Mink]

Good job, thank you!

> Am 02.09.2016 um 17:26 schrieb D.S. Ljungmark :
> 
> I just multiplied my BandwidthRate with a bit for my exit.
> 
> //Spid
> 
> 
>> On 02/09/16 02:28, Tristan wrote:
>> Is the Tor strike today? Because I just set up a second instance on my
>> relay to get the most out of its bandwidth.
>> 
>> Oops 😏
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[D.S. Ljungmark]

I just multiplied my BandwidthRate with a bit for my exit.

//Spid


On 02/09/16 02:28, Tristan wrote:
> Is the Tor strike today? Because I just set up a second instance on my
> relay to get the most out of its bandwidth.
> 
> Oops 😏
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[I]

 
> I was riffing a bit on Mao's infamous Hundred Flowers Campaign. "The policy 
> of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend 
> is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and
the progress of science." Depends on your threat model, I suppose.

The full quotation, taken from a speech of Mao's in Peking in February 1957, is:

"Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend 
is the policy for promoting progress in the arts and the sciences and a 
flourishing socialist culture in our land."

It is sometimes suggested that the initiative was a deliberate attempt to flush 
out dissidents by encouraging them to show themselves as critical of the 
regime. Whether or not it was a deliberate trap isn't clear but it is the case 
that many of those who put forward views that were unwelcome to Mao were 
executed. 


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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Tristan]

Is the Tor strike today? Because I just set up a second instance on my
relay to get the most out of its bandwidth.

Oops 😏
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Kenneth Freeman]

On 09/01/2016 01:47 AM, grarpamp wrote:
> On 8/31/16, Kenneth Freeman  wrote:

>> To me it seems to be a bit late in the day for a Cambrian
>> Explosion -let a thousand anonymity networks bloom and see where it gets
>> you.
> 
> I wouldn't say that. So long as any particular network is
> incapable or insufficient at resisting certain adversaries...
> or any of its models on the people or other sides of things
> are non ideal, or it just doesn't do what its users need it to
> do, there's in fact every expectation that other networks
> should and will bloom up. 1000? No of course not. Yet a
> handful of similar nets based on some feature chart... sure.

I was riffing a bit on Mao's infamous Hundred Flowers Campaign. "The
policy of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of
thought contend is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and
the progress of science." Depends on your threat model, I suppose.



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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[grarpamp]

On 8/31/16, Kenneth Freeman  wrote:
> As for the burgeoning of anonymity networks other than Tor, it'll be
> interesting to see what level of interest law enforcement organs take in
> them, if any.

We know certain elements and entities are not at all fond
of encryped anonymous overlay networks as a technology.

That's different from any interest they take in the *users*
of such networks and their activities.

And different from any level of technical protection those
*networks* may provide to the users against their adversaries.

Any decently strong overlay network against some threat
model is going to have the above three similar to any other
network.

> To me it seems to be a bit late in the day for a Cambrian
> Explosion -let a thousand anonymity networks bloom and see where it gets
> you.

I wouldn't say that. So long as any particular network is
incapable or insufficient at resisting certain adversaries...
or any of its models on the people or other sides of things
are non ideal, or it just doesn't do what its users need it to
do, there's in fact every expectation that other networks
should and will bloom up. 1000? No of course not. Yet a
handful of similar nets based on some feature chart... sure.
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Kenneth Freeman]

On 08/31/2016 04:39 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On 8/31/16, Green Dream  wrote:
>> Well said grarpamp.
>>
>>> there are plenty of other already existing, interesting, and
>>> upcoming anonymous overlay networks for transporting IP, messaging,
>>> storage and so on.
>>
>> Mind sharing some names here so I can research further?
> 
> Well, regarding recent threads...
> 
> There's the IndependentOnion / RotorBrowser / Rotor project.
> See the links and audio below for more info on how the latter is
> beginning to take shape and unfurl its own sails.

Flash proxy may be of some utility here, although to the best of my
knowledge it is not in wide use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_proxy

As for the burgeoning of anonymity networks other than Tor, it'll be
interesting to see what level of interest law enforcement organs take in
them, if any. To me it seems to be a bit late in the day for a Cambrian
Explosion -let a thousand anonymity networks bloom and see where it gets
you.





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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[grarpamp]

On 8/31/16, Green Dream  wrote:
> Well said grarpamp.
>
>> there are plenty of other already existing, interesting, and
>> upcoming anonymous overlay networks for transporting IP, messaging,
>> storage and so on.
>
> Mind sharing some names here so I can research further?

Well, regarding recent threads...

There's the IndependentOnion / RotorBrowser / Rotor project.
See the links and audio below for more info on how the latter is
beginning to take shape and unfurl its own sails.

However if people would like to check out some things different and
outside anything tor like or related, then of course neither Tor
or IO would be of interest.

So more along the lines of what I wrote regarding other networks,
I'll try to list a variety of other projects in a followup post.


https://rotorbrowser.com/
https://github.com/IndependentOnion
https://lists.rotorbrowser.com/pipermail/rotor-general/
https://twitter.com/Jmprcx

# IndependentOnion / RotorBrowser / Rotor Interview
# intro 00:06:29-00:07:51
# exclusive jmprcx from 00:12:37-00:31:27, 00:37:02-00:51:30
# ppi commentary from 00:51:30-01:02:01
https://www.spreaker.com/user/anonukire/t0pg3arliv3-rotor-torfork-new-tor-broswe
https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/9283555/t0pg3arliv3_rotor_torfork_new_tor_broswer_project.mp3
# unrelated segments 01:06:01-01:31:20, 01:34:18-01:57:00

https://twitter.com/hashtag/rotor
https://twitter.com/hashtag/rotorbrowser
https://twitter.com/hashtag/independentonion



Other reference materiel re: thread...

https://ghostbin.com/paste/kmnzz
https://twitter.com/hashtag/torstrike

https://ghostbin.com/paste/4am8w
https://twitter.com/hashtag/torfork
@miss_cybernaut, @jmprcx, @thatrez, @routenotfound
@forktor, @puppydogs12345, @gguernica, @shiromarieke
@shafpatel, @shallowaddict @saigonseamus, @angry_node
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Green Dream]

Well said grarpamp.

> there are plenty of other already existing, interesting, and
> upcoming anonymous overlay networks for transporting IP, messaging,
> storage and so on.

Mind sharing some names here so I can research further?
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[grarpamp]

On 8/21/16, Marcel Krzystek  wrote:
> ​What are the thoughts of relay operators on this?
> I can be persuaded otherwise, and perhaps i'm being naive

As unpaid and non contractually obligated volunteers, it's really
up to each operator to follow their own conscience. No one is going
to "die" if comms are a little slower than usual for a day. And
it's not as if a 10%-30% aggregate dip for a while is going to dig
into real capacity rather than unused headroom. Or that your
statistics aren't going to recover. Or that Tor Project, or the
community will not be able to mobilize any needed replacements,
after all, the concept of anonymous networks is within us now, we've
lived them... so they're not going anywhere. (And Tor has an
advertising machine and budget, huge compared to other projects).

But it would send a message, not just to Tor, or its community, but
to the entire space, about what some values are, or need to be, or
their level of importance, and so on... or it could just silently
signal the need for others to talk more to discover them. Because
we've got far bigger battles with adversaries to fight than to carry
some suboptimal bullshit and come weak to the game as a result.

There are now at least the idea of tor forks with different ethos.
And there are plenty of other already existing, interesting, and
upcoming anonymous overlay networks for transporting IP, messaging,
storage and so on. Morphing market utilization and resources among
them all is a normal and expected process. For that matter, for
diversity reasons, there needs to be more than one good anonymous
overlay network... different in areas of technology, code, operational
base, geo politik/jurisdiction, development, funding, leadership,
activism, and participation models... that is well known to the
public, supported, reviewed, and used, par for par. Competition is
fun and healthy. So this might be an oppurtunity for you to explore
and participate in some of them as well, even exclusively as you
might be doing today with Tor (if that's the way you do things).

So maybe it's not really an issue of persuading anyone one way or
the other, or being initially naive, or following any particular
groupthink or call to action, or fear of making or even being labeled
for choices... but a real chance to independantly take a week or
more, researching and thinking about the issues, really the whole
scope of the space and what's out there... beyond just the particulars
of Tor and #torstrike alone... and then make any actions or longer
term adjustments, changes, and talk, in your own way, based on that.

Operators would have my support, whichever network[s] they choose
to contribute to.
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Markus Koch]

We have 2016 not 1950. Update your ntp server.


> assault/abuse/exploitation. The western culture we have collectively
> created, where women are the lesser equals, and this underlining tone of
> male arrogance that if a women was sexually abused/exploited that she
> wanted it, was looking for it, or even enjoyed it (I speak from my
> past-perspective on these type of scenarios, although wrong.
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[rastaman]

Hi, I'm a white-boy from a silly-old-town.

I would like to express my perspective on the sexual
assault/abuse/exploitation. The western culture we have collectively
created, where women are the lesser equals, and this underlining tone of
male arrogance that if a women was sexually abused/exploited that she
wanted it, was looking for it, or even enjoyed it (I speak from my
past-perspective on these type of scenarios, although wrong. Where did
this ideology originate from? I can't be the only one? After I became
aware of this behavior pattern, it became clear that this was a cultural
belief system that was adopted). If the alleged abuser, and the several
victims are within the same organization, and if the abuser is in a
position of power, drastic actions needs to taken, and quick (The risk
is too great, for the abuser to take action, out of fear, and use/abuse
her/his power. Nothing good will ever come from actions motivated by
fear). You can not expect to wait for or rely on the Law System to give
you a verdict. If several victims are speaking out, and not all
anonymously, that ought to be a strong indication of wrong doing.

We are not progressing as a species, because of beings in a position of
power exploiting those without.

Do not let these situations change your behavior towards the Tor
Project, by sabotaging the progress of the project. We all have a vision
of the greatness Tor can bring to mankind. We the people are Tor, keep
taking actions that will build us. Stay focused on the true fight.

With Love,
Rastaman

O na kar maan rupaiye wala bar bar ke na rajje

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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Rabbi Rob Thomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Dear team,

Speaking as a former Tor board member and as a relay and bridge node
operator, I'm more confident in Tor than ever before.  I'm pleased with
the new leadership team as well as the direction of the Tor Project.
I'm pleased with the careful and caring manner in which issues have been
handled.  I'm pleased with how the community has rallied to build and
inclusive and welcoming place to further the cause of freedom.

We at Team Cymru remain firmly committed to the Tor Project, and will do
all we can to help the Tor Project and community grow.

We will not participate in any strike, or any other action that
adversely impacts the dissidents and freedom-seekers of the world.

Be well,
Rabbi Rob.
- --
Rabbi Rob Thomas   Team Cymru
   "It is easy to believe in freedom of speech for those with whom we
agree." - Leo McKern

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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Zack Weinberg]

Personally, the expulsion of Appelbaum and the replacement of the board
make me *more* confident in the Tor organization.  The relays I run,
B6C7FAFFFCEFC30541D38F33E25B1E0DB135C5D8 (non-exit) and
78C7C299DB4C4BD119A22B87B57D5AF5F3741A79 (exit), will NOT be
participating in this "strike".

I am making this announcement because we have to physically move the
computer running the exit sometime in the next week or so, and it may be
down for a couple of days, depending on how long it takes the network
admins to reconfigure things.  This is merely an unfortunate coincidence
of timing.  The non-exit will remain up.

zw




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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[attila]

Arisbe  writes:

>   
>

I agree in general with a lot of what is said here, but I have to take
issue with one point:

> 
>   
>   
> Okay, so I've been concerned about the safety of at-risk Tor users
> since all this shit broke. New employees at the organizational
> structure serving as the main accuser, an all new board with
> interrelationships and motivation unknown, grenades rolled under
> office doors and all of the rest leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I
> cannot, at this time, recommend to a third world citizen, that (s)he
> trust the Tor network. I hope that changes.
> 
> The issue is whether or not someone new in the Tor organization
> will, accidentally or intentionally, put third world users at risk.
> I cannot trust an all-new board. Tor needs to be on their best
> behavior in order for me to re-establish trust in the organization.
> 
> 
> As a retired corporate manager I've seen these problems before. I
> have several suggestions that I feel are must-do tasks for the Tor
> Project:
> 1) Secure an independent investigator to look into the allegations
> against Jacob. Either demonstrate that he is not an honorable
> employee or reinstate him. No one should trust anonymous claims
> that can ruin his career. If Jacob is guilty, he should be
> prosecuted;

... and this is it.

I've seen this now over and over in these discussions: if Applebaum is
guilty then some legal action must follow.

Involving your local legal system in rape and sexual misconduct cases
is problematic for many reasons.  I highly encourage anyone who thinks
that the obvious answer to the kinds of wrongdoing that Jacob
Applebaum is accused of is "the courts" to read *something* about rape
culture.  Here are three links that aren't bad starting points:

http://time.com/40110/rape-culture-is-real/
http://jezebel.com/5822649/why-a-rape-doesnt-get-prosecuted
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/

I would also encourage anyone who thinks the police or court system of
any country on the planet are always good ways to resolve these issues
should also read this article and follow the links in it:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/18/idaho-sheriff-said-most-rape-victims-hes-worked-with-are-lying-the-numbers-disagree/

There are obviously a lot more articles online about this issue, and I
want to stress that this goes well beyond these accusations against a
specfic person.  The cries of "due process" (whatever that means
wherever you happen to be) and "if it's true charge him with a crime"
sound thin and naive to me.  They are based on assumptions that aren't
true.  If you accept this then the actions of the accusers in this
case don't look so strange or off-base and the constant scolding to
let the courts decide guilt or innocence look hollow.  It also means
that the real path forward is not so clean or easy.

> 2) Board member should be open, accessible and available to
> employees and node operators. Their background and motivation for
> being a director of the Tor Project should be disseminated. There
> interrelationship with other board members should be known;
> 3) As one of the founders of Tor, Roger should openly discuss these
> and all issues in a public manner (on the web page, webinar,
> magazine article, etc.);
> 4) An organizational plan should be placed in the employment manual
> that puts significant distance between coding employees and
> directors;
> 5) Employees and directors should not operate nor have access to
> authority servers.
> 
> I've operated a number of exits and guards for several years now
> (including, as far as I know, the only Tor node in Albania). [1] I
> will leave these operational for now but I expect changes in this
> unprofessionally operated 501c3.
> 
> [1]
>cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="410">
>  style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:12316;width:260pt"
>   width="346"> 
> 
>width="346">A827646DD0F8B92A9963789529CEE3141FF74761
>   
> 
> 
>height="19">4061C553CA88021B8302F0814365070AAE617270
>   
> 
> 
>height="19">C80DF89B21FF932DEC0D7821F679B6C79E1449C3
>   
> 
> 
>height="19">9B31F1F1C1554F9FFB3455911F82E818EF7C7883
>   
> 
> 
>height="19">D3E5EDDBE5159388704D6785BE51930AAFACEC6F
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
--
http://haqistan.net/~attila | att...@haqistan.net | 0x62A729CF
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Pi3]

Or six-years-old-sand...@lists.torproject.org
This whole manifesto sounds like it was written by spoiled teenager or counter 
intelligence 
agent who is trying to incite unrest. Its designed to provoke emotions and 
doesn't deal with anything real. 
And I think its really awesome. This means that tor is a pain on someone's ass 
and doing its job 
for people who really need it. This someone is likely from said intelligence 
because spinning sexual scandals 
and building new stuff on those "scandals" is their way of doing their job 
where people get socially crucified 
without any evidence or legal conduct. Even when and _if_ such conduct happens 
it _always_ ends fast and 
without conclusions, but the harm was already made.
Noise around tor is good for tor - it means its alive. Its just sad to see that 
people can get destroyed 
in this information war. 
Actually this stuff made me to slap another relay somewhere
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 9:08 AM, I  wrote:
This thread should be moved to [ tor-knitting-cir...@lists.torproject.org ] or 
write to The Tor Corporation you think exists.
 
Robert
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Zenaan Harkness]

I concur with all you say below.

Exceptionally well spoken. Evidently you have some solid experience in
your corporate managerial role.

Thanks for speaking up.


On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 11:50:37PM -0700, Arisbe wrote:
>Okay, so I've been concerned about the safety of at-risk Tor users since 
> all this shit broke.  New employees at the
>organizational structure serving as the main accuser, an all new board 
> with interrelationships and motivation
>unknown, grenades rolled under office doors and all of the rest leaves a 
> bad taste in my mouth.  I cannot, at this
>time, recommend to a third world citizen, that (s)he trust the Tor 
> network.  I hope that changes.
>The issue is whether or not someone new in the Tor organization will, 
> accidentally or intentionally, put third world
>users at risk.  I cannot trust an all-new board.  Tor needs to be on their 
> best behavior in order for me to
>re-establish trust in the organization.
>As a retired corporate manager I've seen these problems before.  I have 
> several suggestions that I feel are must-do
>tasks for the Tor Project:
>1)  Secure an independent investigator to look into the allegations 
> against Jacob.  Either demonstrate that he is not
>an honorable employee or reinstate him.  No one should trust anonymous 
> claims that can ruin his career.  If Jacob is
>guilty, he should be prosecuted;
>2)  Board member should be open, accessible and available to employees and 
> node operators.  Their background and
>motivation for being a director of the Tor Project should be disseminated. 
>  There interrelationship with other board
>members should be known;
>3)  As one of the founders of Tor, Roger should openly discuss these and 
> all issues in a public manner (on the web
>page, webinar, magazine article, etc.);
>4)  An organizational plan should be placed in the employment manual that 
> puts significant distance between coding
>employees and directors;
>5)  Employees and directors should not operate nor have access to 
> authority servers.
>I've operated a number of exits and guards for several years now 
> (including, as far as I know, the only Tor node in
>Albania). [1]  I will leave these operational for now but I expect changes 
> in this unprofessionally operated 501c3.
>[1]
> 
>A827646DD0F8B92A9963789529CEE3141FF74761
>4061C553CA88021B8302F0814365070AAE617270
>C80DF89B21FF932DEC0D7821F679B6C79E1449C3
>9B31F1F1C1554F9FFB3455911F82E818EF7C7883
>D3E5EDDBE5159388704D6785BE51930AAFACEC6F
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[I]

This thread should be moved to [ tor-knitting-cir...@lists.torproject.org ] or 
write to The Tor Corporation you think exists.

Robert

> -Original Message-
> From: tor-am...@foofus.com
> Sent: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 20:35:50 -0700
> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org
> Subject: Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike
> 
> I'm not switching off my relay, primarily because I'm lazy and can't be
> arsed to figure out what all the politics bullshit is about.
> 
> Some project member did some shit and other project members are mad at
> them. Other people may or may not be righteously mad at the first people
> for reasons I haven't bothered to learn.
> 
> I started my relay so oppressed people in third world countries could
> communicate with the outside world and each other in relative safety. If
> that objective is still being achieved by the software, I could give a
> shit
> what beefs the coders have with each other.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 8:14 PM, krishna e bera 
> wrote:
> 
>> On 21/08/16 10:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>>> Fact: Jacob Applebaum's directory authority was a target of NSA's
>>> XKEYSCORE:
>>> https://contraspin.co.nz/the-weaponising-of-social-part-3-
>> the-resurrection-of-ioerror/
>> 
>> Of course, perhaps they all are.
>> 
>>> Fact: Jacob Applebaum got kicked from Tor Inc, prior to a proper
>>> investigation.
>> 
>> Any organization would do the same with similar allegations.  If he was
>> exonerated, he could rejoin afterwards.
>> 
>> 
>>> Fact: The investigation done by Tor Inc, was run by the primary
>>> accusers
>>> of Jacob Applebaum.
>> 
>> Evidence?
>> 
>> 
>>> In the USA's war against Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, Wikileaks and
>>> Edward Snowden, Jacob Applebaum was a very high target, and caused the
>>> three letter agencies a lot of problems.
>>> 
>>> So yes, operation of the network you use for -genuine- privacy needs,
>>> is
>>> very much dependent on those running the organisation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Fact: The ENTIRE board of Tor Inc got replaced after Jacob was given
>>> the
>>> boot!
>>> 
>>> My conclusion: This was a coup, blunt and bloody, take no prisoners,
>>> respect no righteousness.
>> 
>> Overdramatic.  Where's the blood?  Who was behind the coup, and what
>> hard evidence do you have?  Are you looking for #torstrike to prompt
>> leaks of such info?
>> 
>> Makes more sense for the Board to be distinct from the day to day
>> operations people anyway.
>> 
>> 
>>> My conclusion: The operation of the Tor directory authorities can no
>>> longer be trusted.
>> 
>> Perhaps it never could be.  Are you ready to run one?
>> 
>> 
>>> My conclusion: The deployment of TBB by Tor Inc can no longer be
>>> trusted.
>> 
>> Fork it.
>> 
>> 
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>>


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[tor-relays] #torstrike

[Arisbe]

  
  
Okay, so I've been concerned about the safety of at-risk Tor users
since all this shit broke.  New employees at the organizational
structure serving as the main accuser, an all new board with
interrelationships and motivation unknown, grenades rolled under
office doors and all of the rest leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  I
cannot, at this time, recommend to a third world citizen, that (s)he
trust the Tor network.  I hope that changes.

The issue is whether or not someone new in the Tor organization
will, accidentally or intentionally, put third world users at risk. 
I cannot trust an all-new board.  Tor needs to be on their best
behavior in order for me to re-establish trust in the organization. 


As a retired corporate manager I've seen these problems before.  I
have several suggestions that I feel are must-do tasks for the Tor
Project:
1)  Secure an independent investigator to look into the allegations
against Jacob.  Either demonstrate that he is not an honorable
employee or reinstate him.  No one should trust anonymous claims
that can ruin his career.  If Jacob is guilty, he should be
prosecuted;
2)  Board member should be open, accessible and available to
employees and node operators.  Their background and motivation for
being a director of the Tor Project should be disseminated.  There
interrelationship with other board members should be known;
3)  As one of the founders of Tor, Roger should openly discuss these
and all issues in a public manner (on the web page, webinar,
magazine article, etc.);
4)  An organizational plan should be placed in the employment manual
that puts significant distance between coding employees and
directors;
5)  Employees and directors should not operate nor have access to
authority servers.

I've operated a number of exits and guards for several years now
(including, as far as I know, the only Tor node in Albania). [1]  I
will leave these operational for now but I expect changes in this
unprofessionally operated 501c3.

[1]

   

  A827646DD0F8B92A9963789529CEE3141FF74761
  


  4061C553CA88021B8302F0814365070AAE617270
  


  C80DF89B21FF932DEC0D7821F679B6C79E1449C3
  


  9B31F1F1C1554F9FFB3455911F82E818EF7C7883
  


  D3E5EDDBE5159388704D6785BE51930AAFACEC6F
  

  

  

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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Green Dream]

I'm not switching off my relays. I'd prefer to leave the politics to
other people.

> Fact: The investigation done by Tor Inc, was run by the primary accusers
> of Jacob Applebaum.

Citation needed.
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 11:14:59PM -0400, krishna e bera wrote:
> On 21/08/16 10:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > Fact: Jacob Applebaum's directory authority was a target of NSA's
> > XKEYSCORE:
> > https://contraspin.co.nz/the-weaponising-of-social-part-3-the-resurrection-of-ioerror/
> 
> Of course, perhaps they all are.
> 
> > Fact: Jacob Applebaum got kicked from Tor Inc, prior to a proper
> > investigation.
> 
> Any organization would do the same with similar allegations.  If he was
> exonerated, he could rejoin afterwards.

Put it to relevant/ external/ unbiased authorities, not internally
compromised "investigation group with chips on their shoulders".


> > Fact: The investigation done by Tor Inc, was run by the primary accusers
> > of Jacob Applebaum.
> 
> Evidence?
> 
> 
> > In the USA's war against Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, Wikileaks and
> > Edward Snowden, Jacob Applebaum was a very high target, and caused the
> > three letter agencies a lot of problems.
> >
> > So yes, operation of the network you use for -genuine- privacy needs, is
> > very much dependent on those running the organisation.
> > 
> > 
> > Fact: The ENTIRE board of Tor Inc got replaced after Jacob was given the
> > boot!
> > 
> > My conclusion: This was a coup, blunt and bloody, take no prisoners,
> > respect no righteousness.
> 
> Overdramatic.  Where's the blood?

Jacob Applebaum's scalp.


> Who was behind the coup, and what hard evidence do you have?  Are you
> looking for #torstrike to prompt leaks of such info?

I don't know that torstrike could be useful ultimately. Forking
possibly.


> Makes more sense for the Board to be distinct from the day to day
> operations people anyway.

The only thing that makes sense is that the core people are trustworthy
- there are now major problems with core Tor Inc people.


> > My conclusion: The operation of the Tor directory authorities can no
> > longer be trusted.
> 
> Perhaps it never could be.  Are you ready to run one?

Is that a genuine offer and a genuine possibility?


> > My conclusion: The deployment of TBB by Tor Inc can no longer be
> > trusted.
> 
> Fork it.

That is happening.
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[AMuse]

I'm not switching off my relay, primarily because I'm lazy and can't be
arsed to figure out what all the politics bullshit is about.

Some project member did some shit and other project members are mad at
them. Other people may or may not be righteously mad at the first people
for reasons I haven't bothered to learn.

I started my relay so oppressed people in third world countries could
communicate with the outside world and each other in relative safety. If
that objective is still being achieved by the software, I could give a shit
what beefs the coders have with each other.



On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 8:14 PM, krishna e bera  wrote:

> On 21/08/16 10:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > Fact: Jacob Applebaum's directory authority was a target of NSA's
> > XKEYSCORE:
> > https://contraspin.co.nz/the-weaponising-of-social-part-3-
> the-resurrection-of-ioerror/
>
> Of course, perhaps they all are.
>
> > Fact: Jacob Applebaum got kicked from Tor Inc, prior to a proper
> > investigation.
>
> Any organization would do the same with similar allegations.  If he was
> exonerated, he could rejoin afterwards.
>
>
> > Fact: The investigation done by Tor Inc, was run by the primary accusers
> > of Jacob Applebaum.
>
> Evidence?
>
>
> > In the USA's war against Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, Wikileaks and
> > Edward Snowden, Jacob Applebaum was a very high target, and caused the
> > three letter agencies a lot of problems.
> >
> > So yes, operation of the network you use for -genuine- privacy needs, is
> > very much dependent on those running the organisation.
> >
> >
> > Fact: The ENTIRE board of Tor Inc got replaced after Jacob was given the
> > boot!
> >
> > My conclusion: This was a coup, blunt and bloody, take no prisoners,
> > respect no righteousness.
>
> Overdramatic.  Where's the blood?  Who was behind the coup, and what
> hard evidence do you have?  Are you looking for #torstrike to prompt
> leaks of such info?
>
> Makes more sense for the Board to be distinct from the day to day
> operations people anyway.
>
>
> > My conclusion: The operation of the Tor directory authorities can no
> > longer be trusted.
>
> Perhaps it never could be.  Are you ready to run one?
>
>
> > My conclusion: The deployment of TBB by Tor Inc can no longer be
> > trusted.
>
> Fork it.
>
>
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[krishna e bera]

On 21/08/16 10:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Fact: Jacob Applebaum's directory authority was a target of NSA's
> XKEYSCORE:
> https://contraspin.co.nz/the-weaponising-of-social-part-3-the-resurrection-of-ioerror/

Of course, perhaps they all are.

> Fact: Jacob Applebaum got kicked from Tor Inc, prior to a proper
> investigation.

Any organization would do the same with similar allegations.  If he was
exonerated, he could rejoin afterwards.


> Fact: The investigation done by Tor Inc, was run by the primary accusers
> of Jacob Applebaum.

Evidence?


> In the USA's war against Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, Wikileaks and
> Edward Snowden, Jacob Applebaum was a very high target, and caused the
> three letter agencies a lot of problems.
>
> So yes, operation of the network you use for -genuine- privacy needs, is
> very much dependent on those running the organisation.
> 
> 
> Fact: The ENTIRE board of Tor Inc got replaced after Jacob was given the
> boot!
> 
> My conclusion: This was a coup, blunt and bloody, take no prisoners,
> respect no righteousness.

Overdramatic.  Where's the blood?  Who was behind the coup, and what
hard evidence do you have?  Are you looking for #torstrike to prompt
leaks of such info?

Makes more sense for the Board to be distinct from the day to day
operations people anyway.


> My conclusion: The operation of the Tor directory authorities can no
> longer be trusted.

Perhaps it never could be.  Are you ready to run one?


> My conclusion: The deployment of TBB by Tor Inc can no longer be
> trusted.

Fork it.


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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[krishna e bera]

On 21/08/16 09:53 PM, Marcel Krzystek wrote:
> ​What are the thoughts of relay operators on this?
>  https://ghostbin.com/paste/kmnzz

Arguments can be made against the specifics in it but my main problem
with the manifesto is it doesnt say how they propose to deal with sexual
harassment or "misconduct" among staff and volunteers.  The new Tor
Social Contract[1] seems the right way for the future.
Cleaning up after the scandal was bound to be messy and it was almost
inevitable that some people would be exiled.  According to the latest
official statement[0], Tor Project is not alleging criminal conduct (aka
rape), so there is room for Jake and others to undergo training or claim
misunderstanding, whichever way they are inclined, and move on.

Regarding opsec, how do they propose to prevent anyone with evil
credentials being involved in the project, when spies can simply hide
the info?  More importantly, why exclude people who want to do good?
The internet was invented by researchers for the US military and
continues to be operated by corporations generally sympathetic to their
aims, while being a battleground for all kinds of actors.
The code itself and how vulnerabilities are handled will determine Tor's
trustworthiness.

However, if partipation in #torstrike is significant, it would be nice
to see support for developers to operate outside US/UK influence.

> I can be persuaded otherwise, and perhaps i'm being naive, but i believe
> that operation of the network should remain independent from the
> politics within the organization.

Agree, net neutrality etc.  But each of us has to choose where to place
our limited time and resources, so it helps to feel positive toward the
people in the organization.


[0] https://blog.torproject.org/blog/statement-0
[1] https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-social-contract
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Ass Pirate]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:53:26 -0600
Marcel Krzystek  wrote:

> ​What are the thoughts of relay operators on this?
> https://ghostbin.com/paste/kmnzz
> 
> I can be persuaded otherwise, and perhaps i'm being naive, but i
> believe that operation of the network should remain independent from
> the politics within the organization.
> 
> mk ​
> 

Mostly it just makes me question who's behind it. It definitely
expresses very real concerns, but I don't see how this would possibly
accomplish what they've set out to do, while at the same time making
everybody that depends on tor vulnerable. It's not why I run a relay
and it's not why Jake worked on tor. The only thing I see this
accomplishing is further weakening the network. My relay will stay up.
Others I know have considered spinning up a vps or ten for the day. 

Ass Pirate
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Mirimir]

On 08/21/2016 07:53 PM, Marcel Krzystek wrote:
> ​What are the thoughts of relay operators on this?
> https://ghostbin.com/paste/kmnzz
> 
> I can be persuaded otherwise, and perhaps i'm being naive, but i believe
> that operation of the network should remain independent from the politics
> within the organization.
> 
> mk ​

That's an excellent point.

But then, Tor Project kicked Appelbaum's relay based on politics, no?
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[I]

If Tor software is open source and therefore free to be examined for tricks what does any person matter to we who contribute hardware resources to the Tor network which in turn is used by unknown people who need privacy sometimes for very serious reasons?Robert
 supersluet...@gmail.com wroteI don't understand any of the demands on the page, or why they matter. Tor does its job, whether an ex-CIA agent helps develop it or not.If someone could explain this like I'm five, it'd be a great help, but I'm still going to run my Tor relay and use the Tor Browser. 






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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Tristan]

I read some tweets and found some articles. Jake Applegate stepped down
from the project, and Sheri replaced the board of directors. But this
strike wants to replace all Tor project members because of Applegate.

I'm not connecting the dots, and the response on Twitter seems to be mostly
against the strike.

Regardless of who's involved with the project, lives are at stake here.
People who don't rely on Tor don't realize how important it is.

One tweet put it perfectly: You don't switch off the patients just because
you disagree with the equipment vendor.
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 07:53:26PM -0600, Marcel Krzystek wrote:
> ​What are the thoughts of relay operators on this?
> https://ghostbin.com/paste/kmnzz
> 
> I can be persuaded otherwise, and perhaps i'm being naive, but i believe
> that operation of the network should remain independent from the politics
> within the organization.

Hi Marcel,

Fact: Jacob Applebaum's directory authority was a target of NSA's
XKEYSCORE:
https://contraspin.co.nz/the-weaponising-of-social-part-3-the-resurrection-of-ioerror/

Fact: Jacob Applebaum got kicked from Tor Inc, prior to a proper
investigation.

Fact: The investigation done by Tor Inc, was run by the primary accusers
of Jacob Applebaum.


In the USA's war against Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, Wikileaks and
Edward Snowden, Jacob Applebaum was a very high target, and caused the
three letter agencies a lot of problems.


So yes, operation of the network you use for -genuine- privacy needs, is
very much dependent on those running the organisation.


Fact: The ENTIRE board of Tor Inc got replaced after Jacob was given the
boot!



My conclusion: This was a coup, blunt and bloody, take no prisoners,
respect no righteousness.

My conclusion: The operation of the Tor directory authorities can no
longer be trusted.

My conclusion: The deployment of TBB by Tor Inc can no longer be
trusted.


Draw your own conclusions.
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Re: [tor-relays] #torstrike

[Tristan]

I've never believed in strikes. They never seem to really do anything,
other than make something unaccessible for a day or 2 (just like the
Wikipedia blackout a few years ago).

I don't understand any of the demands on the page, or why they matter. Tor
does its job, whether an ex-CIA agent helps develop it or not.

If someone could explain this like I'm five, it'd be a great help, but I'm
still going to run my Tor relay and use the Tor Browser.

On Aug 21, 2016 8:54 PM, "Marcel Krzystek"  wrote:

> ​What are the thoughts of relay operators on this?
> https://ghostbin.com/paste/kmnzz
>
> I can be persuaded otherwise, and perhaps i'm being naive, but i believe
> that operation of the network should remain independent from the politics
> within the organization.
>
> mk ​
>
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[tor-relays] #torstrike

[Marcel Krzystek]

​What are the thoughts of relay operators on this?
https://ghostbin.com/paste/kmnzz

I can be persuaded otherwise, and perhaps i'm being naive, but i believe
that operation of the network should remain independent from the politics
within the organization.

mk ​
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