Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-12 Thread nusenu


niftybunny:
> Just woke up. So, whats wrong with some of my relays in this list?

some "exit" relay routed its traffic back into tor by using
a tor client. That tor client used exit relays - yours were among them.

So nothing wrong on your side. 




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Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-12 Thread Dr Gerard Bulger
Torrc allows you to exit from a different IP.  I thought it a good idea to stop 
arbitrary blocking of the advertised Tor exit IP, the captchas and blacklists 
that tor users suffer. When IPv6 implemented fully we have a wide range of IPs 
to send from on each server.   

Perhaps it is not considered good form to do so as the internet should know who 
is using Tor.

So what is the problems for TOR security when exits set up to send from a 
different IP?   Is it that we do not know what the second IP is up to in 
dealing with the IP4 traffic from the exit?

Gerry

-Original Message-
From: tor-relays  On Behalf Of 
li...@for-privacy.net
Sent: 11 October 2020 23:13
To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 
45.63.11.98

On 11.10.2020 22:41, Roger Dingledine wrote:

> Right, in this particular case, we already run a scanner which 
> provides public output: it's the tordnsel scanner, and check out 
> https://check.torproject.org/exit-addresses

Damn it, the boy was hardworking.

ExitNode 385527185E26937D05E0933DD29FF1699056CAF3
Published 2020-10-11 11:54:00
LastStatus 2020-10-11 17:00:00
ExitAddress 185.220.102.252 2020-10-11 17:52:50 ExitAddress 45.154.35.218 
2020-10-11 17:13:21 ExitAddress 45.63.11.98 2020-10-11 09:19:06 ExitAddress 
51.158.111.157 2020-10-10 23:51:28 ExitAddress 45.154.35.219 2020-10-10 
20:14:28 ExitAddress 185.220.101.207 2020-10-10 18:10:02 ExitAddress 
185.140.53.7 2020-10-10 15:04:52 ExitAddress 23.129.64.205 2020-10-10 09:14:15 
ExitAddress 23.129.64.100 2020-10-10 06:10:30 ExitAddress 185.220.100.240 
2020-10-10 03:41:38 ExitAddress 23.129.64.207 2020-10-09 21:04:35 ExitAddress 
23.129.64.209 2020-10-09 19:31:42 ExitAddress 23.129.64.212 2020-10-09 15:18:55 
ExitAddress 185.107.47.215 2020-10-09 12:02:09 ExitAddress 45.154.35.216 
2020-10-09 09:11:20 ExitAddress 162.247.74.7 2020-10-09 08:10:41 ExitAddress 
45.154.35.214 2020-10-09 04:27:16 ExitAddress 130.225.244.90 2020-10-09 
03:34:52 ExitAddress 46.165.245.154 2020-10-08 22:09:32 ExitAddress 
185.220.102.248 2020-10-08 21:13:44 ExitAddress 45.154.35.211 2020-10-08 
15:17:28 ExitAddress 45.154.35.213 2020-10-08 14:52:41 ExitAddress 185.140.53.9 
2020-10-08 12:42:16 ExitAddress 145.239.92.26 2020-10-08 11:34:41 ExitAddress 
185.140.53.5 2020-10-08 09:39:55 ExitAddress 51.195.150.250 2020-10-08 05:42:51 
ExitAddress 185.220.102.247 2020-10-08 04:38:46 ExitAddress 51.83.139.56 
2020-10-08 02:41:35 ExitAddress 216.239.90.19 2020-10-07 22:10:28 ExitAddress 
35.0.127.52 2020-10-07 21:46:15 ExitAddress 185.220.102.241 2020-10-07 20:04:33 
ExitAddress 45.154.35.220 2020-10-07 17:28:29 ExitAddress 209.141.39.33 
2020-10-07 15:49:11 ExitAddress 185.220.101.10 2020-10-07 12:39:45 ExitAddress 
185.220.101.200 2020-10-07 05:12:35 ExitAddress 51.195.149.132 2020-10-06 
19:26:01 ExitAddress 45.154.35.212 2020-10-06 18:39:37 ExitAddress 
179.43.167.226 2020-10-06 12:55:24 ExitAddress 185.220.102.242 2020-10-06 
09:04:52 ExitAddress 162.247.74.201 2020-10-05 11:44:18 ExitAddress 
45.154.35.210 2020-10-05 09:59:58 ExitAddress 51.75.144.43 2020-10-05 01:24:36 
ExitAddress 185.220.100.250 2020-10-04 12:52:37 ExitAddress 94.142.244.16 
2020-10-04 09:26:13 ExitAddress 45.154.35.215 2020-10-04 08:15:17 ExitAddress 
185.220.102.243 2020-10-03 20:13:45 ExitAddress 5.79.109.48 2020-10-03 16:56:19 
ExitAddress 54.36.108.162 2020-10-02 18:11:45 ExitAddress 209.141.61.129 
2020-10-01 21:48:30 ExitAddress 18.27.197.252 2020-10-01 18:26:32 ExitAddress 
51.178.43.104 2020-10-01 15:39:56 ExitAddress 185.220.100.252 2020-10-01 
07:57:36 ExitAddress 185.220.102.8 2020-10-01 06:29:39 ExitAddress 51.81.83.151 
2020-09-30 21:55:17 ExitAddress 185.220.102.253 2020-09-30 17:52:13 ExitAddress 
37.120.152.116 2020-09-30 13:25:01 ExitAddress 162.247.74.200 2020-09-30 
11:02:05 ExitAddress 185.220.100.241 2020-09-30 10:44:36 ExitAddress 
45.129.56.200 2020-09-30 07:52:31 ExitAddress 171.25.193.77 2020-09-29 17:15:03 
ExitAddress 185.220.101.205 2020-09-28 22:13:13 ExitAddress 198.251.89.136 
2020-09-28 15:27:51 ExitAddress 193.218.118.140 2020-09-28 12:39:45 ExitAddress 
185.220.101.199 2020-09-28 05:45:20 ExitAddress 85.248.227.165 2020-09-28 
00:42:28 ExitAddress 185.220.101.148 2020-09-27 18:58:16

https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#search/185.220.
niftybunny, Zwiebelfreunde, Digitalcourage & F3Netze help each other but have 
their machines in different IX. They don't throw their IPs from the separate 
ASNs onto one machine. ;-)

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Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-12 Thread niftybunny
Just woke up. So, whats wrong with some of my relays in this list?

nifty

> On 12. Oct 2020, at 00:13, li...@for-privacy.net wrote:
> 
> On 11.10.2020 22:41, Roger Dingledine wrote:
> 
>> Right, in this particular case, we already run a scanner which provides
>> public output: it's the tordnsel scanner, and check out
>> https://check.torproject.org/exit-addresses
> 
> Damn it, the boy was hardworking.
> 
> ExitNode 385527185E26937D05E0933DD29FF1699056CAF3
> Published 2020-10-11 11:54:00
> LastStatus 2020-10-11 17:00:00
> ExitAddress 185.220.102.252 2020-10-11 17:52:50
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.218 2020-10-11 17:13:21
> ExitAddress 45.63.11.98 2020-10-11 09:19:06
> ExitAddress 51.158.111.157 2020-10-10 23:51:28
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.219 2020-10-10 20:14:28
> ExitAddress 185.220.101.207 2020-10-10 18:10:02
> ExitAddress 185.140.53.7 2020-10-10 15:04:52
> ExitAddress 23.129.64.205 2020-10-10 09:14:15
> ExitAddress 23.129.64.100 2020-10-10 06:10:30
> ExitAddress 185.220.100.240 2020-10-10 03:41:38
> ExitAddress 23.129.64.207 2020-10-09 21:04:35
> ExitAddress 23.129.64.209 2020-10-09 19:31:42
> ExitAddress 23.129.64.212 2020-10-09 15:18:55
> ExitAddress 185.107.47.215 2020-10-09 12:02:09
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.216 2020-10-09 09:11:20
> ExitAddress 162.247.74.7 2020-10-09 08:10:41
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.214 2020-10-09 04:27:16
> ExitAddress 130.225.244.90 2020-10-09 03:34:52
> ExitAddress 46.165.245.154 2020-10-08 22:09:32
> ExitAddress 185.220.102.248 2020-10-08 21:13:44
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.211 2020-10-08 15:17:28
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.213 2020-10-08 14:52:41
> ExitAddress 185.140.53.9 2020-10-08 12:42:16
> ExitAddress 145.239.92.26 2020-10-08 11:34:41
> ExitAddress 185.140.53.5 2020-10-08 09:39:55
> ExitAddress 51.195.150.250 2020-10-08 05:42:51
> ExitAddress 185.220.102.247 2020-10-08 04:38:46
> ExitAddress 51.83.139.56 2020-10-08 02:41:35
> ExitAddress 216.239.90.19 2020-10-07 22:10:28
> ExitAddress 35.0.127.52 2020-10-07 21:46:15
> ExitAddress 185.220.102.241 2020-10-07 20:04:33
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.220 2020-10-07 17:28:29
> ExitAddress 209.141.39.33 2020-10-07 15:49:11
> ExitAddress 185.220.101.10 2020-10-07 12:39:45
> ExitAddress 185.220.101.200 2020-10-07 05:12:35
> ExitAddress 51.195.149.132 2020-10-06 19:26:01
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.212 2020-10-06 18:39:37
> ExitAddress 179.43.167.226 2020-10-06 12:55:24
> ExitAddress 185.220.102.242 2020-10-06 09:04:52
> ExitAddress 162.247.74.201 2020-10-05 11:44:18
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.210 2020-10-05 09:59:58
> ExitAddress 51.75.144.43 2020-10-05 01:24:36
> ExitAddress 185.220.100.250 2020-10-04 12:52:37
> ExitAddress 94.142.244.16 2020-10-04 09:26:13
> ExitAddress 45.154.35.215 2020-10-04 08:15:17
> ExitAddress 185.220.102.243 2020-10-03 20:13:45
> ExitAddress 5.79.109.48 2020-10-03 16:56:19
> ExitAddress 54.36.108.162 2020-10-02 18:11:45
> ExitAddress 209.141.61.129 2020-10-01 21:48:30
> ExitAddress 18.27.197.252 2020-10-01 18:26:32
> ExitAddress 51.178.43.104 2020-10-01 15:39:56
> ExitAddress 185.220.100.252 2020-10-01 07:57:36
> ExitAddress 185.220.102.8 2020-10-01 06:29:39
> ExitAddress 51.81.83.151 2020-09-30 21:55:17
> ExitAddress 185.220.102.253 2020-09-30 17:52:13
> ExitAddress 37.120.152.116 2020-09-30 13:25:01
> ExitAddress 162.247.74.200 2020-09-30 11:02:05
> ExitAddress 185.220.100.241 2020-09-30 10:44:36
> ExitAddress 45.129.56.200 2020-09-30 07:52:31
> ExitAddress 171.25.193.77 2020-09-29 17:15:03
> ExitAddress 185.220.101.205 2020-09-28 22:13:13
> ExitAddress 198.251.89.136 2020-09-28 15:27:51
> ExitAddress 193.218.118.140 2020-09-28 12:39:45
> ExitAddress 185.220.101.199 2020-09-28 05:45:20
> ExitAddress 85.248.227.165 2020-09-28 00:42:28
> ExitAddress 185.220.101.148 2020-09-27 18:58:16
> 
> https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#search/185.220.
> niftybunny, Zwiebelfreunde, Digitalcourage & F3Netze help each other but have
> their machines in different IX. They don't throw their IPs from the separate 
> ASNs onto one machine. ;-)
> 
> --
> ╰_╯ Ciao Marco!
> 
> Debian GNU/Linux
> 
> It's free software and it gives you freedom!
> ___
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> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays



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Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-11 Thread lists

On 11.10.2020 22:41, Roger Dingledine wrote:


Right, in this particular case, we already run a scanner which provides
public output: it's the tordnsel scanner, and check out
https://check.torproject.org/exit-addresses


Damn it, the boy was hardworking.

ExitNode 385527185E26937D05E0933DD29FF1699056CAF3
Published 2020-10-11 11:54:00
LastStatus 2020-10-11 17:00:00
ExitAddress 185.220.102.252 2020-10-11 17:52:50
ExitAddress 45.154.35.218 2020-10-11 17:13:21
ExitAddress 45.63.11.98 2020-10-11 09:19:06
ExitAddress 51.158.111.157 2020-10-10 23:51:28
ExitAddress 45.154.35.219 2020-10-10 20:14:28
ExitAddress 185.220.101.207 2020-10-10 18:10:02
ExitAddress 185.140.53.7 2020-10-10 15:04:52
ExitAddress 23.129.64.205 2020-10-10 09:14:15
ExitAddress 23.129.64.100 2020-10-10 06:10:30
ExitAddress 185.220.100.240 2020-10-10 03:41:38
ExitAddress 23.129.64.207 2020-10-09 21:04:35
ExitAddress 23.129.64.209 2020-10-09 19:31:42
ExitAddress 23.129.64.212 2020-10-09 15:18:55
ExitAddress 185.107.47.215 2020-10-09 12:02:09
ExitAddress 45.154.35.216 2020-10-09 09:11:20
ExitAddress 162.247.74.7 2020-10-09 08:10:41
ExitAddress 45.154.35.214 2020-10-09 04:27:16
ExitAddress 130.225.244.90 2020-10-09 03:34:52
ExitAddress 46.165.245.154 2020-10-08 22:09:32
ExitAddress 185.220.102.248 2020-10-08 21:13:44
ExitAddress 45.154.35.211 2020-10-08 15:17:28
ExitAddress 45.154.35.213 2020-10-08 14:52:41
ExitAddress 185.140.53.9 2020-10-08 12:42:16
ExitAddress 145.239.92.26 2020-10-08 11:34:41
ExitAddress 185.140.53.5 2020-10-08 09:39:55
ExitAddress 51.195.150.250 2020-10-08 05:42:51
ExitAddress 185.220.102.247 2020-10-08 04:38:46
ExitAddress 51.83.139.56 2020-10-08 02:41:35
ExitAddress 216.239.90.19 2020-10-07 22:10:28
ExitAddress 35.0.127.52 2020-10-07 21:46:15
ExitAddress 185.220.102.241 2020-10-07 20:04:33
ExitAddress 45.154.35.220 2020-10-07 17:28:29
ExitAddress 209.141.39.33 2020-10-07 15:49:11
ExitAddress 185.220.101.10 2020-10-07 12:39:45
ExitAddress 185.220.101.200 2020-10-07 05:12:35
ExitAddress 51.195.149.132 2020-10-06 19:26:01
ExitAddress 45.154.35.212 2020-10-06 18:39:37
ExitAddress 179.43.167.226 2020-10-06 12:55:24
ExitAddress 185.220.102.242 2020-10-06 09:04:52
ExitAddress 162.247.74.201 2020-10-05 11:44:18
ExitAddress 45.154.35.210 2020-10-05 09:59:58
ExitAddress 51.75.144.43 2020-10-05 01:24:36
ExitAddress 185.220.100.250 2020-10-04 12:52:37
ExitAddress 94.142.244.16 2020-10-04 09:26:13
ExitAddress 45.154.35.215 2020-10-04 08:15:17
ExitAddress 185.220.102.243 2020-10-03 20:13:45
ExitAddress 5.79.109.48 2020-10-03 16:56:19
ExitAddress 54.36.108.162 2020-10-02 18:11:45
ExitAddress 209.141.61.129 2020-10-01 21:48:30
ExitAddress 18.27.197.252 2020-10-01 18:26:32
ExitAddress 51.178.43.104 2020-10-01 15:39:56
ExitAddress 185.220.100.252 2020-10-01 07:57:36
ExitAddress 185.220.102.8 2020-10-01 06:29:39
ExitAddress 51.81.83.151 2020-09-30 21:55:17
ExitAddress 185.220.102.253 2020-09-30 17:52:13
ExitAddress 37.120.152.116 2020-09-30 13:25:01
ExitAddress 162.247.74.200 2020-09-30 11:02:05
ExitAddress 185.220.100.241 2020-09-30 10:44:36
ExitAddress 45.129.56.200 2020-09-30 07:52:31
ExitAddress 171.25.193.77 2020-09-29 17:15:03
ExitAddress 185.220.101.205 2020-09-28 22:13:13
ExitAddress 198.251.89.136 2020-09-28 15:27:51
ExitAddress 193.218.118.140 2020-09-28 12:39:45
ExitAddress 185.220.101.199 2020-09-28 05:45:20
ExitAddress 85.248.227.165 2020-09-28 00:42:28
ExitAddress 185.220.101.148 2020-09-27 18:58:16

https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#search/185.220.
niftybunny, Zwiebelfreunde, Digitalcourage & F3Netze help each other but 
have
their machines in different IX. They don't throw their IPs from the 
separate ASNs onto one machine. ;-)


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Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-11 Thread Roger Dingledine
On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 01:39:17PM -0500, Mike Perry wrote:
> > I believe I can tell rerouting exits from exits having distinct IPs for
> > inbound and outbound connections - in most cases.
> 
> Are your scanners available for others to run? I understand that it is a
> risk that making them public may allow bad exits to avoid them, but is
> it ok if other specific people use and adapt the scanners?

Right, in this particular case, we already run a scanner which provides
public output: it's the tordnsel scanner, and check out
https://check.torproject.org/exit-addresses

So what we are missing still is (a) a human to go through that list
periodically to look for exits that have weirdly too many exit addresses,
especially addresses that overlap with other exits, and then (b) somebody
to automate the process that that human uses.

In the 'bad exit finding' world, we've had problems in the past with
false positives, where some automated tool spams us with "possible"
problem relays and we quickly learn that ignoring those reports is the
best use of our time. So as we try to automate this one, I'd be a fan
of putting the detection threshold quite high, so when we trigger on
a relay and escalate to the humans, it's because we're quite confident
there's something that needs action.

> >> Remember that our directory authorities are deliberately independent
> >> from TPI though, and even what I think is not necessarily what TPI
> >> thinks. The dirauths may have different opinions. Coordinating policy of
> >> this nature is difficult and requires consensus building.
> > 
> > Since dir auths have been removing these kinds of relays, I don't think 
> > there
> > is any policy change necessary.
> 
> Ok great! Sometimes I am surprised by their decisions, and I didn't see
> this one.

Right. This one's an easy choice, because not only is it wasteful as
you say, it is also a way that somebody can sign up an exit relay to
look at traffic without needing to actually be the exit for that traffic.

--Roger

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Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-11 Thread Mike Perry
On 10/11/20 1:17 PM, nusenu wrote:
>> I am losing patience with the "let's play nice and let exit IP addresses
>> be predictable" model... We are not being treated well by the banhammer
>> brigade, and it might be time to flip some tables. I would not call
>> simply using a different exit IP than your relay's OR port a bad exit.
> 
> I'm not calling exit relays using distinct IPs or inbound (OR) and outbound
> connections "BadExits" either, quite the opposite, all exits should be using
> https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/tor-manual.html.en#OutboundBindAddressExit
> if they have spare IPs.
> That is why I implemented and automated that configuration in relayor.

Ok that sounds reasonable. Thanks!

> I believe I can tell rerouting exits from exits having distinct IPs for
> inbound and outbound connections - in most cases.

Are your scanners available for others to run? I understand that it is a
risk that making them public may allow bad exits to avoid them, but is
it ok if other specific people use and adapt the scanners?

>> Remember that our directory authorities are deliberately independent
>> from TPI though, and even what I think is not necessarily what TPI
>> thinks. The dirauths may have different opinions. Coordinating policy of
>> this nature is difficult and requires consensus building.
> 
> Since dir auths have been removing these kinds of relays, I don't think there
> is any policy change necessary.

Ok great! Sometimes I am surprised by their decisions, and I didn't see
this one.


-- 
Mike Perry



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Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-11 Thread nusenu
> I am losing patience with the "let's play nice and let exit IP addresses
> be predictable" model... We are not being treated well by the banhammer
> brigade, and it might be time to flip some tables. I would not call
> simply using a different exit IP than your relay's OR port a bad exit.

I'm not calling exit relays using distinct IPs or inbound (OR) and outbound
connections "BadExits" either, quite the opposite, all exits should be using
https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/tor-manual.html.en#OutboundBindAddressExit
if they have spare IPs.
That is why I implemented and automated that configuration in relayor.

I believe I can tell rerouting exits from exits having distinct IPs for
inbound and outbound connections - in most cases.

 
> Remember that our directory authorities are deliberately independent
> from TPI though, and even what I think is not necessarily what TPI
> thinks. The dirauths may have different opinions. Coordinating policy of
> this nature is difficult and requires consensus building.

Since dir auths have been removing these kinds of relays, I don't think there
is any policy change necessary.






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Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-11 Thread Mike Perry


On 10/11/20 10:20 AM, nusenu wrote:
> Thanks for the report, I have forwarded it for removal.
> 
> li...@for-privacy.net:
>> Wtf, this exit has addresses that do not belong to it!
>> https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#details/385527185E26937D05E0933DD29FF1699056CAF3
> 
> Yes, rerouting exit traffic is a practice we have observed in the past.
> 
> BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1)
> The following exit relays are routing their traffic back into the tor network:
> ---
> nickname: exitnew
> First seen: 2020-09-25 12:00:00
> Consensus weight: 1410
> AS: Choopa, LLC
> OR IP address: 45.63.11.98
> Exit addresses: 185.140.53.7 185.220.101.207 45.154.35.219 45.63.11.98 
> 51.158.111.157
> https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/385527185E26937D05E0933DD29FF1699056CAF3
> 
> 
> 
>> I'm very sure there are only nifty rabbits on the 185.220.101.0/24 subnet!
> 
> niftybummy has relays outside of 185.220.101.0/24

I am losing patience with the "let's play nice and let exit IP addresses
be predictable" model... We are not being treated well by the banhammer
brigade, and it might be time to flip some tables. I would not call
simply using a different exit IP than your relay's OR port a bad exit.

However, re-routing exit traffic back into Tor like this is not the
answer. It is simply wasteful. I am in favor of delisting such relays.

Remember that our directory authorities are deliberately independent
from TPI though, and even what I think is not necessarily what TPI
thinks. The dirauths may have different opinions. Coordinating policy of
this nature is difficult and requires consensus building.

Again, I understand your frustration.



-- 
Mike Perry



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Re: [tor-relays] BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1) 45.63.11.98

2020-10-11 Thread nusenu
Thanks for the report, I have forwarded it for removal.

li...@for-privacy.net:
> Wtf, this exit has addresses that do not belong to it!
> https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#details/385527185E26937D05E0933DD29FF1699056CAF3

Yes, rerouting exit traffic is a practice we have observed in the past.

BadExit: Rerouting exit relays detected (1)
The following exit relays are routing their traffic back into the tor network:
---
nickname: exitnew
First seen: 2020-09-25 12:00:00
Consensus weight: 1410
AS: Choopa, LLC
OR IP address: 45.63.11.98
Exit addresses: 185.140.53.7 185.220.101.207 45.154.35.219 45.63.11.98 
51.158.111.157
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/385527185E26937D05E0933DD29FF1699056CAF3


 
> I'm very sure there are only nifty rabbits on the 185.220.101.0/24 subnet!

niftybummy has relays outside of 185.220.101.0/24

-- 
https://mastodon.social/@nusenu



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