Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Who could tell me the reason that the SBT doesn't support the East Asian Scripts?
You can use any old font you like, btw, just make sure that it has all the codepoints / characters you need. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] squeezecommander vs squeezebox app
On 11 August 2012 14:40, dood dood.5h4...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: I've downloaded squeeze commander as an alternative to the Logitech android app, after reading how much better it is. I've found that it is not very intuitive. [...] I don't get how the paid app is better. Am I missing something? The official app requires you to set up an account with Logitech, Squeezecommander does not. What happens ins your LAN stays in your LAN. That said, I don't like its interface either, so I'm still using SqueezeControl. It vanished from the Market a while back, but I can send you the .apk if you want. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 1 July 2012 00:22, garym garym.5ez...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: All products are eventually extinct. My 1979 apple II works fine. I don't know about you, but I'd have no problem replacing an Apple II. I really wouldn't know what to replace my Squeezeboxes with, though. The HTPC could do it, of course, but compared to the SBs it's flakey and computer-y. On 1 July 2012 07:09, jean2 jean2.5f0...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: I've been using the Touch with a USB drive for the last two years, and I've just bought one for my parents that will run similarly. I can tell you that over two years, there have been consistent improvements to the stand-alone support, both in speed and reliability, That's great, but it still isn't there, it seems. Still, at least there's *some* development, so yay! whereas many other bugs have not been addressed. See, and that's not so great, at least not for people like me who don't use their SBs stand-alone at all. It'd be nice if they threw the core audience / loyal fan base a bone once in a while. (Triode doesn't count ^^) In the consumer market pricing is dictated by volume more than anything else, to be able to sell at $300, they need significant volume. Without all those various those features increasing volume, we would be most likely paying Transporter price for the Touch. I really don't think that's true. The original Slim Devices outfit made a profit, too, even at the comparatively tiny scale they were operating at, yet the Squeezeboxes weren't more expensive. (Ok, I haven't factored in inflation, so maybe a little.) Seems to me that all volume dictates is Logitech's profit margin. IIRC the Transporter could have profitably been sold at $1k but they upped the price to match the audiophile market's expectations ^^. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 30 June 2012 12:41, toby10 toby10.5ey...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: SqueezeBox will never be mass-market like an iPod, it has always been a niche market [...] Yes, but is this really a bad thing? Should it even try to be more mass market? it's broad feature set What good are features if they are little more than bullet points? This post (well, about the bottom third) hits the nail on the head: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94109-Lms-7-8p=695839viewfull=1#post695839. If something is *officially* supported, it should work very very well. I had some fun reading the Touch's German Amazon reviews yesterday: * computer-savy people with a full local server and/or previous Squeezebox experience: ecstatic * people with the server on a NAS: satisfaction depends heavily on the NAS used, but unsatisfactory performance due to an overtaxed NAS is always attributed to the Touch only. * people who want to use the Touch stand-alone with a USB hard drive: 1) A lot of bus-powered drives dont work, because they draw 500mA. Of course that's the drive's fault, but normal people don't know that, so they blame the Touch. 2) Large-ish libraries (a few 10k tracks) seem to be a PITA. 3) Scanning takes ages. Combine that with the fact that people here like to disconnect their equipment from the mains overnight and you have frustrated SB owners. * people who want to use it for internet radio and streaming services: nice, but really too expensive and over-engineered for the job. Lots of problems with mysb.com. An overarching trend is that people are happier the more computer-savy they are. Most of that could be solved if the Touch's limitations and the system / infrastructure requirements were communicated more clearly (or at all). An SB-branded NAS would go a long way as well. Not unlike your $2k two ch stereo setup. That is certainly not mass-market as most don't have $2k invested in *all* of their audio gear It's nice, though. I went active (studio monitors) and I'm never going back. There's some pretty decent budget options for €200-300 / pair, too. Highly recommended. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 30 June 2012 19:51, toby10 toby10.5ez...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: Yes, and there are even more Amazon reviews that say setup was a breeze. Look at the Amazon review ratings for the Touch, what % gives it 4 to 5 stars versus 1 to 3 stars? It's sitting at 4 stars. That doesn't mean that the negative reviews are not valid. Some of those negative reviews are from people complaining about content providers or poor WiFi in their homes, [things] Logitech [can't control] Of course. But if people expect certain use-cases to work / a certain performance based on how the product is advertised by Logitech and it doesn't deliver, it's Logitech's problem anyway. There was just a recent forum post with a guy asking why his smart phone app can't see his LMS server nor player. Come to find out he was connecting his smartphone via his 3G cell service and not his WiFi. *shrug* Welcome to the mass market. Most people don't know what a LAN is. Bottom line is a single point we can both agree on, that is the Touch is the single best hardware player out there in it's price range. Yes. Even if one were willing to spend ten times as much there's nothing like it. That doesn't change the fact that Squeezeboxes are goint to be extinct soon, if Logitech doesn't refresh the line up and promote it more. Let's leave it at that. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 29 June 2012 10:20, toby10 toby10.5ew...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: . it's just that they don't need a Squeezebox for that. Heck, a decent A/V reciever or NAS / media harddrive will do that.. Ok, then why don't you simply use those for your streaming needs? Maybe because those solutions are clunky, confusing, limited, not user friendly? Exactly. But I'm not a good mass market example in the audio space, am I? I love my €2.000 hi-fi setup, many audiophiles will spend way more than that - and yet the notion of a dedicated stereo is ludicrous to (almost) all my friends and acquaintances. For them, a €400 all-in-one is the pinnacle of high-end. What I'm saying is, the mass market won't care about clunky interfaces if people don't know any better and it's fuctionality that came for free with some other device. Marketing could fix this, but there isn't any for the Squeezeboxes, is there? It's pretty much word-of-mouth at this point. That said, if I was interested (solely) in streaming from the internet, the receiver would do just fine. The clunkiness only starts when a local library comes into play. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 29 June 2012 12:36, toby10 toby10.5ex...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: The mass market helps keep your Touch at a reasonable price. Take away it's mass market appeal and your very limited market for such a device would quadruple the price for the same hardware. You're missing the point I was trying to make. IMHO the Touch *doesn't have* that much mass market appeal to begin with (the Radio might). If it did it wouldn't be an also-ran in a market that Squeezeboxes created. By now you've lost the mass market at dedicated device for music streaming. After all, there's DLNA and AirPlay. On the high(er) end there's Sonos and various boxes by traditional hi-fi outfits, whose potential customers wouldn't even consider anything by crappy computer speakers Logitech. The Touch was a bid to enter the mass market, true, with its touch screen, color, embedded server, USB / SD connectivity - and maybe it's cheaper because of that. But I'd much rather have a dumb SB2/3 with a modern DAC, multi-channel support, maybe a bigger VFD. Can't be that much more expensive. The Squeezeboxes badly need a fresh model line up with two or three well-defined niches, a new brand and a marketing campaign, but I think we all know that. Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting a Touch - it is still the best Squeezebox currently available, even if it doesn't fit my needs very well. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 29 June 2012 21:38, sebp sebp.5ex...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: As I'm also using Debian, and just did the test, I'm pretty sure you were, because that's how the web interface looks like right after the package installation: [image: http://squeeze.le-seb.net/lms-privacy.png] Nope, never seen anything like it. My Slimserver install is years old, the configuration even older, migrated from when I ran code direct from the repository. From time to time I have to cajole it into using the server's own MySQL install and audio decoders, but other than that, no maintenance neccessary. It never ever crashes without provocation, either. (Trying to transcode 24/96 FLAC into 24/48 FLAC with only 256 MB RAM for the VM was provocation, apparently. ^^) A perfect example for never touching a running system. Anyway, I'm guessing this setup wizard only shows for new installs and/or in the new skin. But the setting might well have been enabled silently ... ... ... no it hasn't. Everything is just fine :-) BTW, how open is the code that runs on the Touch? Can we (change and) recompile everthing from the kernel up or is it mostly binary blobs? (Yay for most OT thread of the year! :p) On 29 June 2012 21:51, sebp sebp.5ex...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: VFDs have always been the pricier component of the old gen Squeezebox models They also have the advantage of actually being readable from 2-3 m, even with less than perfect eyesight. I just tried that with my phone - the screen is about the same size - no dice, even when zoomed in all the way. Not that it matters that much, I never use the SB2's screen for navigating anymore, but being able to see at a glance what's playing is nice. That and the clock. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 30 June 2012 00:21, sebp sebp.5ex...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: Err ... Has anybody told you - yet - that you'll be forced to upgrade to Squeezebox Server at least, for being able to use a Touch? Relax, I'm running 7.7.x. :-) It's not that I don't update, just that I haven't needed any from-scratch installs. ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 27 June 2012 10:39, chill chill.5et...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: I just tried this with a fresh-out-of-the-box Touch [...] the first thing it did after I entered my wifi password was to prompt me to download the latest firmware. At this stage I had not told the unit anything about my local LMS setup, [...] I could not get the 'swipe right at the help screen' to work, but I DID eventually manage to bypass the MySB setup using the remote. [...] It is indeed the right arrow - as soon as the MySB login screen comes up, press AND HOLD the right arrow, and it takes you to the home screen, from where you can set up your LMS IP address. Now *that* is great news, thank you! To the people who don't get it. You don't have to, really, but I'll still bite. I don't think they were trying to take away any functionality with having the mysqueezebox.com option. The operative word being /option/. With my SB2 it was optional. I could set it up or not. Now it's presented as a neccessary part of setup, without an obvious or even documented way to bypass it. If there was a skip button I wouldn't be complaining (as loudly). They were trying to accommodate users who couldn't have/didn't want to have a computer/full server running. [...] Especially if one considers that probably the fastest growing part of the market doesn't have a local music collection, but instead listens to streaming services. That's probably true, and rather sad. I still think people should buy products based upon what they want, not based upon market trends. For that use case the Squeezeboxen are pretty much overkill, IMHO. The revolutionary thing about them was that they finally made music stored digitally on a computer available to the living room stereo / in other more natural listening situations (SBB, Radio). But hey, to each his own. I just don't like the classic functionality to take a back seat. The problem is, Squeezeboxes are *good* at streaming music over the LAN from a local server, they aren't very good at streaming from the 'net without one. SqueezeNetwork (what's now mysb.com) was a band-aid neccessary for the older Squeezeboxes, that were dumb audio terminals by design. Even back then people were constantly complaining about connection problems, drop outs and other network problems - and they still are, just read the Touch's worse Amazon reviews. That's what you get when you try to run software that was designed for the LAN over a WAN. Really, if I wanted something for streaming I'd buy something a lot cheaper with enough brain to handle everything onboard. The Touch certainly could do that, since it can even run (well, walk) a stripped-down server, but it still depends on mysb.com for stand-alone streaming. Why? There certainly isn't a technical reason ... Just register and save some time and struggling, you have obviously already registered on this forum so Logitech already have your e-mail so I don't understand the issue with giving them it once more. Mailing list, but yes. It isn't about the e-mail, though, not at all. It's about being able to match a physical device (and its location) to a person. They can track each (registered) Squeezebox sold, including re-sales. They can black-list Squeezeboxes for whatever reason. They can track what music you listen to, when and for how long. They know what services you subscribe to. They can track what CDs you buy and rip ... and sell all that data to ad companies. Sorry, but I do not want that. Of course the local server could log all this data and phone home, too. It doesn't, though, and even if it did, without the registration the data remains anonymous. Mysb.com on the other hand collects all that and more during normal operation, as a matter of course. Do they sell any data? Probably not. Won't they ever? Noone can say. All that, and I just don't like to be strong-armed into things. Chris ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 28 June 2012 18:18, aubuti aubuti.5ev...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: In fact, you may have it turned around: manufacturers are increasingly emphasizing online streaming services because that _is_ what growing numbers of people want. The cynic in me says that manufacturers pretty much produce what they want and then market it until it sells. I've since found the on-demand services like MOG to be great for trying out music to see if it's worth buying the CD, [...] Yes, that's true. The quality is fine for trying something out and for mobile listening, but that's all I use mine for. It's not just the audio quality but the inconsistent, incomplete or just plain wrong tags as well. I realize that the streaming services might be all the masses want, it's just that they don't need a Squeezebox for that. Heck, a decent A/V reciever or NAS / media harddrive will do that. From a mass market perspective Squeezeboxes are expensive, complicated and one more box - I'd much rather Logitech would stop trying to compete there and try to place them in the premium home stereo market ... On 28 June 2012 23:40, sebp sebp.5ew...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: As a side note regarding privacy, when you install LMS, you're prompted whether or not you accept it to send anonymous usage statistics to Logitech. I'm pretty sure I wasn't asked anything, i'm using the Debian packages, though. Anyway, anonymous statistics don't bother me. As for Logitech not being the biggest problem, that's also true. But one has to draw the line somewhere. Maybe I'm just pissed off that one of the last areas of my life that was blissfully Internet- and tracking-free (listening to music) is going to be invaded as well - and without (to me) added value. Since the registration *can* be bypassed easily the problem is of a philosophical nature anyway. :-) ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
On 26 June 2012 21:54, Mnyb mnyb.5es...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: maybe someone has a detailed description on how to pass the nag screen for mysb.com on setup ? It can be done yes . That would be nice. All I could google is that there may be a swipe gesture that works, possibly depending on firmware. Since I can't upgrade the firmware before setup is complete (or can I?), some more info would be nice. But nothing is required after registration either , it will be just as usable if never ever connected back to the service. I know, but it can still phone home and link the data gained to my e-mail and thus to me. Besides, I don't want to end up with a brick once mysb.com is taken offline. Chris ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch without downgrading to mysb.com
Hi all! I've been using an SB2 since it came out (and an SB1 for a couple of months before that), and I'm looking for an upgrade. Whishlist: - DAC that can do 24/96+, at least via digital out - support for multi-channel audio (via HDMI) Well, the Touch only gets 1/2 and has a ton of features I do not need (touch screen, integrated server, ...). Did they *have* to throw the slim / thin client concept out of the window? So I've been waiting for a more direct SB3 or even Transporter successor - actually the Transporter would do, only nobody is selling any, go figure -, but there's no new models on the horizon, so I've been thinking, get a Touch or three before Logitech axes that, too. Now, I've never used Squeezenetwork / mysqueezebox.com and very much don't want to. Not everything needs to be closely integrated with the Internet, much less a proprietary service. There's privacy issues, security issues, reliability issues - all for functionality that I don't need and that could easily be done via server plugins. More than that, I see the service as an attempt to take back the openness that was another one of Slim Devices' core concepts by moving as much functionality as possible out of the server, and frankly that pisses me off. If I'm forced to register I won't buy a Touch, it's that simple. So, - Can I setup a Touch, as currently in the European retail channels, without registering? - If I run the Touch without an account, what am I missing compared to my (also unregistered) SB2? - ... compared to the full experience? - Can I still keep it's firmware current? - Can I still benefit from the various mods people are doing, e. g. EDO? I'm perfectly willing to jump through a few hoops and I know my way around Linux but I'd like to know how much trouble it's going to be before I drop over €200. TIA, Chris ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
