Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
It seems I was mistaken, I created an action item about Google Groups, but not about YouTube. I tried finding a way to contact YouTube directly, but I gave up, because it only allows you to do so if you register. Also, there is a contact form, but it will only address content issues and suggestions, not loegal ones. Besides, their page is so varying that sometimes I see one page source, while other times I see other, so it's somewhat impossible for me to suggest something, let alone find out which JavaScript-written projects they are making use of. In light of these issues, I no longer have interest on contacting YouTube, and will continue recommending people to avoid it entirely (even for watching videos or linking to videos posted on it). -- - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]] - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos. - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
That worked. Thank you Magic Banana.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
This is an interesting thread. Considering non-free scripts as non-free software comes as a shock in the first moment, because it means that if we are to avoid non-free software we should limit ourselves to a fraction of the world wide web. The good news is that there's something we can do to get around this problem. For information, these are some extensions I install on both Abrowser and IceCat browsers: Firebug, Greasemonkey, HTML5 Video Everywhere!, HTTPS Everywhere, NoScript, Privacy Badger, Quick Locale Switcher, RefControl, User Agent Switcher, YouTube Video and Audio Downloader. In addition to this, IceCat comes with GNU LibreJS already installed, so I the only thing I needed to install was ViewTube so I could test the first two options on IceCat and the last one on Abrowser: 1. GNU LibreJS + GreaseMonkey + ViewTube. 2. GNU LibreJS + HTML5 Video Everywhere. 3. NoScript + GreaseMonkey + ViewTube My impressions: -I could watch YouTube on all options. -Results on IceCat were confusing, at first it seemed that I could not watch embedded YouTube videos on webpages on option 1 only, now it seems that I cannot watch them on neither options 1 and 2. -GNU LibreJS slows down everything. -I can watch embedded YouTube videos on webpages on Abrowser, but I have had a problem for a long time: audio starts sounding right away, and I cannot stop it - I can only mute it by clicking on the loudspeaker icon shown in the tab. If I click over the embedded video, I get it to start... and then I get the sound twice. This problem seems unchanged with ViewTube. So far my way to get around the problem is to mute the tab, watch other tabs until the video ends, then unmute the tab and play the video - but only if the video is short, if the wait is too long I have to search for it on YouTube. -I like the small ViewTube bar shown just above the video, it causes the video resolution to automatically change to a better one and provides other functions. By the way, I installed MPV too before calher warned us that "youtube-dl runs JavaScript code from YouTube, which is nonfree".
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Forget about the "two options" part, it was part of my reply before I got the extensive list of options down there. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Indeed, so far we have two options, but, at least for (a) and (b), these *must be* evaluated: a. GNU LibreJS + GreaseMonkey + ViewTube. - Or: NoScript + GreaseMonkey + ViewTube (as long as you can make NoScript not block the others). b. GNU LibreJS + HTML5 Video Everywhere. - HTML5 Video Everywhere comes by default in GNU IceCat. I can say that this one is more user-friendly approach, as it's available already. c. Team up asking YouTube to free their JS. - Can be innefficient if YouTube ignores us. d. Team up asking for "content creators" to ask YouTube to free their JS. - This can be as innefficient as (c). e. Stop uploading YouTube videos. f. And of course: Stop watching YouTube videos. We can also combine these options. -- - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]] - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos. - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
I can't find the page. There are A LOT of action items. https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Action_items
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
mpv uses youtube-dl. youtube-dl runs JavaScript code from YouTube, which is nonfree.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Are you sure ViewTube doesn't just do what youtube-dl does, which is downloading YouTube's nonfree JS and running it in the background?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
This is really turning off topic (sorry) but I really want to understand how to use browser well. I'll start a new thread on use of browsers. Please contribute.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Of course not. My browser deletes all cookies when I close it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Are you not concerned about cookies from youtube?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
> Have you allowed scripts from youtube.com* ? I normally keep JavaScript off, period. I only turn it on when I can't find any other option. In the case of YouTube, the only cases where I need to turn JavaScript on are: * Uploading a video * Posting a comment I watch videos with JavaScript off and ViewTube enabled.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Well, there is no doubt that ignorance can lead to paranoia. Given the behaviour of e.g. Google, I think that paranoia is fair enough. But of course, one is better off in the light of scepticism than in the shade of paranoia. 'Fear' would have been a better formulation than 'believe' in my former post. Have you allowed scripts from youtube.com* ?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
> which requires me to accept some terms - I believe they would have to put something on my computer to keep track of that. Why do you believe that? In any case, the terms are not about opening Web pages. They're about any use of the service. Whether you use it through a Web page or through an external program is irrelevant. It's also not a contract and the worst Google could do is ban you from the site (which they would probably never do), so I don't know what you're worried about.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
But to watch the actual video on e.g. youtube, I would still have to go the youtube homepage which requires me to accept some terms - I believe they would have to put something on my computer to keep track of that. Maybe this quetion could be put in another way: How do you actually use ViewTube?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Most browsers I'm aware of refuse to run user scripts unless scripts are enabled across the board. Maybe SeaMonkey is like that; I don't know. Greasemonkey for Firefox works without normal scripts enabled, though.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
I want to try this. I have installed Seamonkey and the script. I am unsure of how to actually use it. Will I still need to go to https.//youtube.com? In that case it's not of much use (I guess) because I would have to allow script on that page. Am I mistaking?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
ell then, one more reason to team up and give a petition or something similar to YouTube, asking them to fix it. I actually have a template of the request, and it's on Action Items page at LibrePlanet wiki. If for some reason the list in that page doesn't mention YouTube, look at the subpages of the Action Items page (go to page information/properties and see what referes to that page). -- - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]] - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos. - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
"...through any technology or means other than the video playback pages..." Well, youtube-dl does report: [youtube]: Downloading webpage So maybe an argument could be made that "Content" is indeed being "accessed" "via" the "video playback pages"... But really, only Google can know what they were thinking of when it was written.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Hi to everyone on the forums. I'm a new member here. I'm not especially technical but I am certainly interested in Free Software (and Free Culture) and I find the discussions on the Trisquel forums very interesting. I was curious to get some thoughts on whether software such as youtube-dl or ViewTube violated the YouTube terms of service (or whether these terms of service even matter in a meaningful way). Specifically I notice this term: "You agree not to access Content through any technology or means other than the video playback pages of the Service itself, the Embeddable Player, or other explicitly authorized means YouTube may designate."
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
I was an avid user of youtube-dl, until I figured out that it runs the nonfree JS from YouTube, and that the developers plan an making it do that in the future. https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/issues/12129#issuecomment-279647782
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
You can watch google earth in the browser. Does it require non free software?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Good article onpon. I did not know javascript imports software on your computer and runs it. Referencing either the computer controls you or you control the computer, that is not acceptable.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
>As for YouTube, you can watch its videos with an alternative program such as ViewTube Not easy when you do not know how to set it up.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Ah, cool. Yeah, skimming the documentation, you can upload videos with that. In that case, the Internet Archive's problems are all minor. Normal use of the site other than uploading does not require JavaScript, and while uploading through normal use of the site does require JavaScript, there's a tool that can be used to do the job without it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
The archive website is fine. I just wget the vids.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
> my complaint is that uploading videos requires JavaScript Check out https://github.com/jjjake/internetarchive, a Python and Command-Line Interface to Archive.org. I haven't tested it; maybe with this you can upload videos without executing proprietary software.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
> possibly with a high-quality Theora encoding and highest quality Opus encoding muxed together using the WebM-complaint subset of > Matroska. WebM is not allowed to contain Theora video, and you wouldn't want to anyway because VP8 is generally speaking better (slower, but better compression for any given quality and not slow enough for it to actually matter that much). By the way, I must echo the general sentiment. the fact that archive.org supplies a JavaScript-based video player is not a problem if the user can just click on one of the video files and watch it that way, and that archive.org supplies MP4/MP3/etc conversions alongside favorable formats is not a problem. Archive.org is imperfect (my complaint is that uploading videos requires JavaScript), but it's not anywhere near as bad as YouTube and Vimeo and has no problems from a viewing perspective.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
I would say use http://www.ytdl.info
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
This is because the average visitor goes to the website and is required to run non-free software automatically. Also, if the uploader of content in Internet Archive doesn't tell otherwise, the Internet Archive will make alternative video/audio/image/text in formats *unfriendly* to free/libre software, and serve these to the visitors.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
"nternet Archive seems to be in same issue too, unfortunately" Why's that?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Vimeo is in same issue as YouTube. Internet Archive seems to be in same issue too, unfortunately. MediaGoblin is, in fact, a software that one installs on a computer, so that computer can act like a website to publish/share video, image, text, audio, and some other things. But there is no need for everyone to do it, because it also accepts accounts (for example, a friend of yours successfully sets-up a MediaGoblin instance, then you can go there and create an account). However, they are still working on federation of MediaGoblin, because currently, each instance is really separated, you can't communicate with your friend at "B" using your account from "A".
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Is greasemonkey software to run isebaro?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Instead of VLC, I use mpv. Latest version of mpv is available in Guix, I can simply do: mpv [YouTube link.] And it will automatically download and play using youtube-dl. Personally I do: mpv --ytdl-format="webm" [YouTube link.] Happy hacking! :) -- - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]] - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos. - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida. - "People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don't accept the world." --- Richard Stallman
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Interesting, I've never checked. I guess it makes sense since it's streaming/downloading the video, whereas watching on the browser might be using the server's resources. But regarding video quality, at least with youtube-dl, you can select it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Please don't say that! Have you ever compare the Consumption of system resources between seeing a video in vlc and in the browser using say duckduckgo??? It's almost the double of consumption! And plus the quality of the video decreases tremendously. It's not very wise, I think. Compliments
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
@ADFENO > "However, please do not upload videos to YouTube, and please ask people not to upload videos there, it requires the visitors of the web site to run non-free software." I agree, ¿and what about Vimeo, archive.org or Mediagoblin? i like MediaGoblin but you can't set privates videos all in that site must be public. ¿You know others sites of hosting videos?
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
https://github.com/mps-youtube/mps-youtube
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Seconded. In fact, even putting issues of liberty aside, the flashy ads, re-implementations of features browsers handle just fine, and tax on page load times make webpage-loaded JS an absolute nightmare.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
I like that idea. Been doing that for a while now. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
Nice essay! I like the idea of making the browser to install the scripts you want to use, instead of always downloading the script and executing it. Our browser could install every version of jQuery if we wanted, and other useful and free software JS. I think that LibreJS is useful, and I hope the project moves forward, as it hasn't got any commit since Thu Jun 23 14:30:11 2016. It's a way to force web developers to let people know what are executing. If you want to preserve freedom 0, just navigate with JS disabled and then check if you're willing to execute each JS file from a weblabel table (such as the one from my website: http://www.freakspot.net/pages/librejs.html). If you're okay with that, then go ahead and activate JS or just navigate using LibreJS; else just allow the scripts you want. However, this is really inconvenient, even for developers. Though LibreJS is not perfect, it serves the purpose of raising some awareness on the issue. Most of the time I use https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/javascript-toggler/ to block all JavaScript unless I whitelist a website. Unfortunately, LibreJS is not yet very comfortable to use, as it is most times very slow. I hope more people help the development of LibreJS and solve some of its issues.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
> but not all > JS is non-free, se we mustn't block it completely. There is an important technical reason why I say no JavaScript on Web pages should be executed, even if it's libre. My essay explains that reason: https://onpon4.github.io/other/kill-js/ This can be overridden by a very drastic overhaul in how a libre browser handles JavaScript, but it would be such tremendous work that I doubt anyone is going to be able to step up to it. LibreJS is not a solution, nor even a step in the right direction.
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
That's quite interesting question indeed, and the wording you used to ask makes up for a perfect answer: Since you asked "Is non libre software required to display youtube videos in the browser", my answer is: Unfortunatelly, in most sites in the Internet, society is forced to run some non-free software (through their browsers). In the technical side: this is done through JavaScript (hereon called JS), but not all JS is non-free, se we mustn't block it completely. In most web browsers, there is either two options: a. Allow all JS. b. Deny all JS. ... and this is bad, because some are indeed free/libre software. This is why we have GNU LibreJS, that only blocks non-free or might-be-non-free JS. Also, to watch YouTube videos, you do need youtube-dl, you can get it from Trisquel's package manager (and repositories), and can also get it from Guix. Both options are good in case some is outdated. However, please do not upload videos to YouTube, and please ask people not to upload videos there, it requires the visitors of the web site to run non-free software. -- - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]] - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos. - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida. - "People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don't accept the world." --- Richard Stallman
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
You can watch youtube videos with VLC just by pasting the url of the video you wish to watch in a terminal $ vlc https:// This will launch VLC, enjoy!
Re: [Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
The YouTube website sends proprietary JavaScript code which loads the video. You really ought to disable JavaScript on your browser entirely if possible; I've outlined why here: https://onpon4.github.io/other/kill-js/ As for YouTube, you can watch its videos with an alternative program such as ViewTube (which is what I use): http://isebaro.com/viewtube/?ln=en
[Trisquel-users] you cannot watch youtube on a libre software computer?
My debian 8 64bit main mate computer can display youtube videos. I noticed some write about youtube dl. Is non libre software required to display youtube videos in the browser also on a computer which has a libre software system installed? Thanks.