Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed
In a message dated 4/7/2004 7:50:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Repent or perish. What does this mean -- become a Mormon or acept Christ as the Lord of your life? John
Re: [TruthTalk] new dating for Turin Shroud
In a message dated 4/7/2004 7:50:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: New Date for Shroud of Turin Another interesting article -- another keeper for me. Thanks Blaine Too bad you didn't get to talk with Street Warrior. John Smithson
Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
In a message dated 4/7/2004 9:52:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for. -Joseph Addison, writer (1672-1719) Dang ! With these Mormon guys, its one keeper after another. J
Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity
In a message dated 4/7/2004 7:46:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just wonder why, if there is no possible plurality when speaking of God, that He finds it necesssary to say "God is one." John To come clearly and resolutely against the wicked such as yourself. Should I expect a real answer or is this the best you can do? John
Re: [TruthTalk] Jonathan opts out of TruthTalk ...
In a message dated 4/7/2004 3:57:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hope that our future conversations are more fruitful. Ditto from me to Jonathon. Chris is probably some kid around 20 - 25 who just finished attendance at Holiness school and botched the written exam. He won't change. I seen too many exactly like him (and they seem to hate EACH OTHER). But occasionally he really does come up with some good stuff. Hang in there. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Spirit
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/7/2004 10:56:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Chris (or anybody else who'd be willing to comment)...Do you believe mortal men (you or I) are spirits as well? Body soul and spirit -- thats the sum total of my awareness on that question. I might be thinking wrong about Chris Barr - mormon or street fighter? DAVEH: Are those the only two choices, John? My camp.OR..your camp??? :-\ John -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Questions set the tone
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/3/2004 7:51:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wm. Taylor) Is Bill still lurking around? JudyT . Miller? ... Raptured DAVEH: With the bad jokes tonight, RUPTURED would be more like it :-) Could be bad news for the rest of us. John -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed
In a message dated 4/7/2004 11:40:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What does this mean -- become a Mormon or DAVEH: You must've made a typo, John. You did mean and, didn't you!?!?!?! ;-) acept Christ as the Lord of your life? John Uh oh . See ... well I was thinking that I mean .. you know something funny happened to me ... on the other hand it has this meaning .. Actually, I was thinking that Barr was a Mormon so I was putting to him and whatever his theology is. I think both can happen -- i.e. my mother-in-lae, bless her heart. She loves the Lord, listens to Pastor Billy Graham but would never leave the Mormon Church (I just did something rather scary --- I typed Mormon but left out the second "m" If you ever see that IT WAS A TYPE - O ). Apparently Barr is not a Mormon (gosh, that would be terrible to leave out that m right now, wouldn't it.) Hope you see the point. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Jonathan opts out of TruthTalk ...
In a message dated 4/7/2004 11:45:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Hmmm...what a coincidence that they all ended up in TT, eh John! Sometimes it does seem that way. j
Re: [TruthTalk] Questions set the tone
In a message dated 4/7/2004 11:51:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: With the bad jokes tonight, RUPTURED would be more like it :-) Hey, when I quite drinken, all my good jokes had to go. J
[TruthTalk] Passion of the Christ R Rating Article is by Tim Stevenson
From: "Marlin Halverson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wanted to find out who wrote the clever article about the R rating of the Passion. I found this source over the Internet and Tim Stevenson claims authorship. Marlin is Tim Stevenson Canadian? Is this him or are there more than one? judyt The mix of spirituality, politics, and social justice are what makes Tim Stevenson such an important trailblazer for the LGBT community on Canada's west coast. Tim was the first openly gay person ordained by a mainstream Christian denomination in Canada - the United Church of Canada. In 1996, after being elected British Columbia MLA for Vancouver - Burrard, Tim was the first openly gay provincial Cabinet Minister, serving as Deputy Speaker and then Minister of Employment and Investment. In 2002, he was elected to the Vancouver City Council. Prior to his active life in politics, Tim was the minister at St. Paul's United Church in Burnaby. He spent several years in Vancouver's downtown eastside working with the inner city poor while sitting on the board of the First United Church. Tim has also worked in the Philippines and South Africa, where he was involved with liberation organizations working to overcome social injustice. He was also an international observer in the South African elections in 1994. Born and raised in Vancouver, Tim attended the University of British Columbia (BA), Holy Names College in Oakland, CA (MA, Spirituality) and the Vancouver School of Theology (M.Div). Tim also teaches religious studies at Langara College. Tim lives in Vancouver with his long-time partner, Gary Paterson. They have three grown daughters. From: Tim Stevenson Yes I am. Tim Stevenson rom: Marlin Halverson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:20 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Passion of the Christ "R" Rating Article Are you the author of the following? The movie - the PASSION OF CHRIST is rated "R":The "R" of course is because of the violence, the gore.. In movie terms "R" stands for RESTRICTED , but in this movie"R" stands for RELEVANT , for REALISTIC , for itREALLY happened for a REASON because we wereREBELIOUS we needed a REDEEMER , we needed to beRECONCILED , we needed to be RECOVERED , we neededto be REGENERATED . Jesus needed to be REJECTED sothat we could have a RELATIONSHIP not just aRELIGION . The "R" is to REMIND us to REMEMBERwhat Jesus did to REMOVE our sin to RENDER Satanpowerless, to RESCUE us from eternity in hell. The "R" rating isto show that Jesus was RESPONSIBLE for giving youREST . As a RESULT of his death Jesus RETIRED yourdebt. The "R" rating means that some will be REPULSED ,some will REFUSE to believe, some will be RELUCTANT ,.
RE: [TruthTalk] Questions set the tone
John, I thought you didnt believe in the rapture? Worried now? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Questions set the tone In a message dated 4/3/2004 7:51:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wm. Taylor) Is Bill still lurking around? JudyT . Miller? ... Raptured Could be bad news for the rest of us. John
RE: [TruthTalk] Jonathan opts out of TruthTalk ...
My guess is that Chris is more like 75 than 25. He is one of the TT list members upon whom you can always rely for consistently BAD news. (ie: negative, downer, discouraging, complaining, slandering, holier-than-thou, damning, self-righteous, demon behind every bush, etc, etc, etc.) And yes, I also think you are right on that there is NO ONE that gets along with Chris for more than 5 minutes. (It must be everyone elses fault.) And yes, he occasionally actually comes up with something interesting, in spite of himself. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jonathan opts out of TruthTalk ... In a message dated 4/7/2004 3:57:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hope that our future conversations are more fruitful. Ditto from me to Jonathon. Chris is probably some kid around 20 - 25 who just finished attendance at Holiness school and botched the written exam. He won't change. I seen too many exactly like him (and they seem to hate EACH OTHER). But occasionally he really does come up with some good stuff. Hang in there. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection
David, When below I said "we" I meant it in a generic sense: we human beings. I don't think Peter is referring to the "spiritual man" (I'm quoting you) when he compares men who have refused the Lord who redeemed them to a dog that returns to its vomit. Rather Peter is referring to false teachers, men who hear the Gospel but refuse to believe it; instead they devise a different "gospel" and use it to lead people astray. These menare not believers, nor have they ever been receivers of the Holy Spirit. NKJ 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. ...18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," Bill - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:21 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection Bill wrote: In my opinion Skinner simply confirmed what Peter and Scripture had been saying for two millennia. We can be conditioned to participate in some inexplicably tragic behaviors. Skinner's psychology is important in helping us understand the flesh. His conditioning applies to the flesh, and when applied to humans, we are talking about modifying behavior which emanates from the flesh. His methods are completely useless for the spiritual man. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Gnosticism
Much to respond to, David; perhaps more than will even be necessary. You write If you really are going to go that far in your magnification of education, then I will have to step away and stand with Judy and her comments about how the Holy Spirit is sufficient to reveal the Word of God which he inspired and wrote. Didn't John actually say this himself in 1John 2:27?Is it truly "a magnification of education" to pass on information which is well established and as old as the Canon itself? It's only when we hoard our knowledge and insist upon a prior commitment from others thatwe have magnified education;it's only then that we becomeelitists. The truth is that gnosticism and the knowledge of such is not new news, nor is it obscure. You have obviously run across it before. I am sure Judy has as well. Is there anyone at TT who isunaware of the Gnostics? The problem is not a question of their existence, or even their existence at the end of the first century, it is one of discerning what to do with what we know about them. Do we say, yes, I John was probably written to combat proto-gnostic if not full-blown gnostic tendencies and teachings, and then use what we know about this cult as an interpretive grid through which to read I John? or do we suppress what we know and read IJohn as if thefalse prophets he mentions are either unidentifiable or even hypothetical?I am committed to the former. Youare committed to the later. Allowme to set the gnostic problem aside for a moment andlook at John's epistles themselves. Although John does intend to edify his readers, surely you will agree with me that his letters were called forth by a particular and urgent situation in the church. This situation concernsfalse teachingsfrom certain false teachers. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray (2.26). And again, Dear children, do not let any one lead you astray (3.7). I said earlier and I stand by it: John's language is as strong as it is because he is warning against heresies from evil men, who denied Christ and were attempting to add to the Gospel of Christ.IJohn is not about lining out a few wayward brothers. John describes these false teachers in three ways, each of which draws attention to their diabolical origin and evil influence. First, they are false prophets (4.1). Throughout Scripture a prophet is someone who speaks under the inspiration of a spiritual power. The true prophet is a mouthpiece for the Spirit of truth; the false prophet a minister of a spirit of error, i.e., an evil spirit/s. For this reason John admonishes his readers to test the spirits, when examining the teachings of these prophets (4.1-6). Secondly, they are deceivers (II Joh 7), because they are leading people astray with their lies. Thirdly, they are anti-christs (2.18, cf. v. 22; 4.3; II Joh 7), because the substance of their teaching is to deny the Incarnation, i.e., the divine-human person of Jesus Christ.Neither are these buta few rebel-rousers; in each case they are many many false prophets, many deceivers, many anti-christs. John also identifies themas "liars" (2.22). Yes, some of thefalse prophetshad left the communities to which John was writing. Possibly their secession owed much to a failure to convert congregations of which they were formerly a part (I Joh 2.18-19). We do know that many Christians by their adherence to the Gospel once presentedhad "overcome them" (I Joh 4.4). Still, John felt he must reassure the faithful and explain in straightforward terms the differences between the two groups, thereby giving his readers grounds for assurance and confidence in fellowshipwith God (I Joh 5.13) at a time when they were being made to feel inferior and spiritually threatened. Throughout his letters Johns great emphasis is on the differences between the genuine Christian and the spurious, and how to discern between the two. The internal evidence furnished by the letters discloses not only the diabolical origin and damaging activity of the false teachers, but to some extent the nature of their perverted system as well. We can learn it both from Johns direct references to their teaching which he contradicts and from the positive emphasis he feels it necessary to make in order to counteract it. Moreover, the context of his double mention of deceivers shows that their error was both theological (2.26; cf. II Joh 7) and ethical (3.7). Their theological error concerned the person of Jesus. They denied that Jesus was the Christ (2.2). By inference they denied that Christ had come in the flesh (4.1-6). From this internal evidence it emerges that, if we are to identify the heresy against which John writes, we must find a system which denied that Jesus was the Son or the Christ come in the flesh and which also viewed righteousness and love as indifferent.Many have argued that this system is the doctrine known as docetism. Derived
Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I just did something rather scary --- I typed Mormon but left out the second m If you ever see that IT WAS A TYPE-O ). Actually, John, there IS a character in the book of Mormon named Moron. See Ether 11:14ff. And of course, there is Moroni (plural of Moron? Italian for Moron?) Perhaps the use of Moron as a name was a practical joke JS wove into his novel called the Book of Mormon. And the book of Ether? He must have been running out of names. Then there is Jacob's brother...he has no name, but is referred to only as Jacob's brother, although he is quite a prominent character in the BoM. Perry _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity
Chris, you seem quite knowlegable. Please explain humility to us. From: Chris Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:44:27 -0500 \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !! I just wonder why, if there is no possible plurality when speaking of God, that He finds it necesssary to say God is one. John To come clearly and resolutely against the wicked such as yourself. Repent or perish. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I typed Mormon but left out the second "m" DAVEH: That's previously been done on TT more times than you might imagine. If you ever see that IT WAS A TYPE - O ). John -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Spirit
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/7/2004 11:43:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Are those the only two choices, John? My camp.OR..your camp??? :-\ I'm thinking with Chris -- only two choices. There is a third choice but I am not allowed to think it on this list. DAVEH: Of course you are allowed to think it, Johnjust be careful that you do not post all that you think.. John -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Protestants
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:52:47 -0700 "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:|| Asking G to show youwhere the word "Protestant" is 'defined' in the[N]T..[?] aninterestingpremise sharedby DavidM and DaveH isthat the NT has to betheir 'dictionary' however,it's not possible for the Spiritto present oppositewording, and the meanings of his words,identically.. therefore, DavidM and DaveH, in agreement on their dictionary/'bible',are thinking convenient thoughtsjointly..from a common demonic source(?) ..not, however,from the NT(!) G ~ P 235
Re: [TruthTalk] Protestants
ftr, yes, I am a Protestant:) On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:46:12 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:52:47 -0700 "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:|| Asking G to show youwhere the word "Protestant" is 'defined' in the[N]T..[?] aninterestingpremise sharedby DavidM and DaveH isthat the NT has to betheir 'dictionary' however,it's not possible for the Spiritto present oppositewording, and the meanings of his words,identically.. therefore, DavidM and DaveH, in agreement on their dictionary/'bible',are thinking convenient thoughtsjointly..from a common demonic source(?) ..not, however,from the NT(!) G ~ P 235
Re: [TruthTalk] new dating for Turin Shroud
Well and good comments, Terry, but not everyone accepts the "givens" of religious belief as we do. Since the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ are in one way or other tied up with the shroud, it is a critical evidence of the reality of the Savior's mission on the earth--not merely that he lived, died and was buried--which is accepted by most. The negative image on the shroud is believed by many scientists to have been caused by a burst of radiation, since it shows bone structure as well as surface image of the corpse. For instance, the left thumb of the manenwrapped in the shroudwas underneath the right hand, both being clasped together, yet the shroud image shows the bone structure of that hidden thumb. It shows bone structure throughout the body as well. Blaine - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] new dating for Turin Shroud Blaine Borrowman wrote: New Date for Shroud of Turin Hey Blaine:Forgive my ignorance, but why the big deal over this cloth? Do we need proof that Jesus was buried?Isn't that a given?What am I missing?Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection
Bill wrote: ... I don't think Peter is referring to the spiritual man ... Hey, Bill, I know that. I was trying to agree with you and add a little bit more. Do I sound antagonistic in my posts? I'm not a very good communicator. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed
Oops! Jared's brother. Can you find that in your BoM? From: Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:36:13 -0600 Blaine: Jacob's brother? I can't find this reference in my BoM, Perry. Please help? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I just did something rather scary --- I typed Mormon but left out the second m If you ever see that IT WAS A TYPE-O ). Actually, John, there IS a character in the book of Mormon named Moron. See Ether 11:14ff. And of course, there is Moroni (plural of Moron? Italian for Moron?) Perhaps the use of Moron as a name was a practical joke JS wove into his novel called the Book of Mormon. And the book of Ether? He must have been running out of names. Then there is Jacob's brother...he has no name, but is referred to only as Jacob's brother, although he is quite a prominent character in the BoM. Perry _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. _ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection
Oh David, let me be the one to apologize -- you are a great communicator. I missed your point, probably anticipating one thing and missing something else. I will try to read more carefully. Bill - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 5:02 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection Bill wrote: ... I don't think Peter is referring to the spiritual man ... Hey, Bill, I know that. I was trying to agree with you and add a little bit more. Do I sound antagonistic in my posts? I'm not a very good communicator. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Gnosticism
Bill wrote: Is it truly a magnification of education to pass on information which is well established and as old as the Canon itself? No, not at all. I was referring to your bold assertion that John cannot be understood without first understanding Gnosticism. I'm not sure who, if anyone, understands Gnosticism. That's why I made some comments. Surely you are aware of how broad and varied the term Gnosticism is applied to a wide variety of beliefs. Bill wrote: It's only when we hoard our knowledge and insist upon a prior commitment from others that we have magnified education; it's only then that we become elitists. Are you sure it is *ONLY* when we do these things? You don't think elitism raises its head when we say things like, you can't understand this book of the Bible unless you first understand Gnosticism. Or what about, unless you know the Greek here, there is no way you will ever understand this passage. From my perspective, speech like this is exclusionary and elitist. Bill wrote: The truth is that gnosticism and the knowledge of such is not new news, nor is it obscure. You have obviously run across it before. It is not obscure in the sense of never having been heard. The problem is that Gnosticism is an emotive term. We all know to Gnosticism is bad, but it is a relative VAGUE term in that it forms a huge umbrella for many religious doctrines and sects. Bill wrote: I am sure Judy has as well. Not only that, but Judy has in the past argued that 1 John was written to counter Gnostics. :-) Bill wrote: Is there anyone at TT who is unaware of the Gnostics? Maybe not, but is there anyone on TT who can explain Gnosticism with absolute certainty? Bill wrote: The problem is not a question of their existence, or even their existence at the end of the first century, it is one of discerning what to do with what we know about them. I think Gnosticism in the first century is difficult to be assertive about. We have basically three before us, don't we, in regards to the first century, who might possibly be associated with Gnosticism? We have Simon Magus, the Nicolaitanes, and Cerinthus. Who really is certain about what these three sects taught exactly? Also, those who call them Gnostics I think tend to lump all mystics of the period into that category of Gnosticism. While mysticism appears to be a characteristic of Gnosticism, I'm not sure it is helpful to lump all mystics into the category of Gnosticism. Bill wrote: Do we say, yes, I John was probably written to combat proto-gnostic if not full-blown gnostic tendencies and teachings, and then use what we know about this cult as an interpretive grid through which to read I John? Oh, yes, I agree fully with this approach. This is a little different than saying that John was combating Gnostics and so without understanding Gnosticism, we cannot understand John. I fully agree that connecting some of the theology that evolved in the second century to its proto-Gnostic roots in the first century can be illuminating. Bill wrote: or do we suppress what we know and read I John as if the false prophets he mentions are either unidentifiable or even hypothetical? I am committed to the former. You are committed to the later. Oh, no, you misunderstand me. I'm with you in your commitment to the former, only we must temper our knowledge with the humility that it deserves. Bill wrote: From this internal evidence it emerges that, if we are to identify the heresy against which John writes, we must find a system which denied that Jesus was the Son or the Christ come in the flesh and which also viewed righteousness and love as indifferent. Many have argued that this system is the doctrine known as docetism. Derived from the Greek work dokein, to seem, it describes the view that Jesus was not a man in reality but only in appearance. This teaching was condemned by Ignatius, and this perhaps only ten years and not more than twenty years after John's address. Ignatius has lead a great many commentators to place the heretics in the ranks of proto-Gnostics. Ok, I'm with you. And this historical knowledge helps us put into perspective why John was writing. We still must speculate about how much of this was direct in his day and how much was in anticipation of the problems coming in the second century. Your use of the word proto-Gnostics indicates that perhaps my former comments were not that far off. Bill wrote: Moreover it is quite discernable that the controversy which John's letters reflect concerns the doctrine of the Incarnation. These proto-Gnostics believed that matter was evil and were obsessed with the problems raised not just by the physical world in general but by the human body in particular. They were not just Platonists; they were pagans through and through. Hence they were immediately in difficulties with the Christian worldview because it is
Re: [TruthTalk] new dating for Turin Shroud
- Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] new dating for Turin Shroud Blaine Borrowman wrote: Well and good comments, Terry, but not everyone accepts the "givens" of religious belief as we do. Since the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ are in one way or other tied up with the shroud, it is a critical evidence of the reality of the Savior's mission on the earth--not merely that he lived, died and was buried--which is accepted by most. The negative image on the shroud is believed by many scientists to have been caused by a burst of radiation, since it shows bone structure as well as surface image of the corpse. For instance, the left thumb of the manenwrapped in the shroudwas underneath the right hand, both being clasped together, yet the shroud image shows the bone structure of that hidden thumb. It shows bone structure throughout the body as well. Blaine Terry wrote: I appreciate your response Blaine, but I am still lost. Would this prove that Jesus was radioactive? If so, would that prove He was the Messiah?Terry **Blainewrites: I am sorry you are still lost Terry, some of us do seem to get lost easily. (:) There is no doubt a lot of confusion in the world today, especially regarding what does or does not constitute proof. As far as proof is concerned,however,I don't see that the visibility of bone structure in the shroud image proves anything.For that matter, science and religion, especially religion, seldom prove anything. Would you agree with this? Judging from my observations, the best we usually get in science is support for a point of view, or theory--and with regards to religion,support for abelief. Those scientists who tout the radiation point of view apparently feel the visibility of bone structure on the Shroud of Turin supports their belief that the negative images came about as the body of Christ was being resurrected, the burst of radiation being part of the resurrection process. No proof of this, of course, just evidence that supports their belief system. If we want to believe something bad enough, we can always find support for it, right? Some, for example, want to believe grace without works is a part of the gospel of Jesus Christ, sothey find a few isolated passages to support this feel-good belief. Boys (of all ages) who want to have sex with their girlfriends, or view photos of naked women, find a few isolated passages in the Bible, or lack thereof, to support their desire to do these things, and then feel good about doing such.Same difference,I think, what do you think, brother Terry?
[TruthTalk] Rabbi Daniel Lapin explains why Jewish groups hate Mel Gibson not just his movie.
I thought this was pertinent to our discussion of Gibsons movie about the Passion. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 5:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Rabbi Daniel Lapin explains why Jewish groups hate Mel Gibson not just his movie. www.towardtradition.org Why Jewish Groups Passionately Hate Mel Gibson by Rabbi Daniel Lapin President, Toward Tradition Surely it is now time to analyze the vitriolic loathing demonstrated by various Jewish groups and their leaders toward Mel Gibson over the past six months. This analysis might help forestall some similar ill-conceived and ill-fated future misadventure on the part of self-anointed Jewish leadership. At the very least it might advance human understanding of destructive group pathologies. As the whole world knows by now, Mel Gibson, his movie, his father, his church and anything else even remotely associated with Mr. Gibson have been smeared as anti-Semitic. From the immoderate assaults, you might have thought that the target was a thug with a lengthy rap sheet for murdering Jews while yelling Heil Hitler. From the intensity of the rhetoric you would have thought that from his youth, Gibson had been hurling bricks through synagogue windows. Yet until The Passion, he was a highly regarded and successful entertainer who went about his business largely ignored by the Jewish community, so why now do they hate him so? Even assuming for the moment that Jewish organizations had a legitimate beef with The Passion, which assumption I have refuted in earlier columns, they should have hated the movie rather than its creator. After all, Judaism originated the calming idea of hating the sin rather than the sinner. Yet from the pages of The New York Times to Jewish organizational press releases and from rabbinic rantings to synagogue sermons the personal hatred for Mel has been palpable. The key insight, vital to understanding their hatred, is this: just because an organization has either the word Jewish or else some Hebrew word in its title does not mean that its guiding principles emanate from the document that has been the constitution of the Jewish people for 3,500 years-the Torah. Every organization has a set of guiding principles which defines its purpose and unifies its membership. However the guiding principles are often not what they appear to be. This departure from founding principles is not unique to Jewish organizations but is found throughout our culture. For instance, almost none of the eighteen hundred chapters of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) supported the nomination of Clarence Thomas to the United States Supreme Court in spite of the undeniable fact that Justice Thomas was, and remains a colored person. Were the NAACP truly to be guided by the principle of advancing the interests of colored people, it would always do so even if it occasionally disagreed with the positions of the colored people it supported. For instance, back in 2000, when the NAACP filed an Amicus brief on behalf of convicted cop-killer Mumia Abu-Jamal, it surely was not endorsing the killing of law enforcement officers as a form of political _expression_. The NAACP was simply doing what it claims it was formed to do, support people of color. In reality of course, as their failure to defend Clarence Thomas reveals, the causes adopted by the NAACP share something far more profound than the skin color of their protagonists. They share a uniform commitment to the doctrines of secularism. In non-political terms one could say that the NAACP seems to be guided by the principles of secular fundamentalism. Secular fundamentalism is the belief system which buttresses the creed of political and economic liberalism just as the Biblically-based beliefs of Judaism and Christianity buttress the creed of political and economic conservatism. It was its adherence to the guiding principles of secular fundamentalism which compelled the NAACP to obstruct the rise to greatness of a religious conservative, even if he did happen to be a colored person. Again, almost nobody in NOW, the National Organization of Women, supported radio personality Laura Schlessinger while her media career was being destroyed by homosexual activists. Now Schlessinger is undeniably a woman, so clearly NOW's guiding principles are not to support all women but to support only certain women. Had NOW been about all women, it would have supported Schlessinger, pointing out perhaps that although they do not endorse all her views, since she is a woman under attack the organization supports her just as it was formed to do. After all, in 2001, NOW had no compunction supporting Houston child murderer, Andrea Yates, who cold bloodedly
Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed
Blaine: Oh, OK, I thought that might have been the case. Yes, the Brother of Jared, whose name was Mahonri Moriancumr. Joseph Smith gave the name out after the Book of Mormon was written, saying the name had a sacred meaning to the Jaredites, therefore was not included in the writings of the Gold Plates, but was revealed to Joseph Smith through divine answer to prayer. - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed Oops! Jared's brother. Can you find that in your BoM? From: Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:36:13 -0600 Blaine: Jacob's brother? I can't find this reference in my BoM, Perry. Please help? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I just did something rather scary --- I typed Mormon but left out the second m If you ever see that IT WAS A TYPE-O ). Actually, John, there IS a character in the book of Mormon named Moron. See Ether 11:14ff. And of course, there is Moroni (plural of Moron? Italian for Moron?) Perhaps the use of Moron as a name was a practical joke JS wove into his novel called the Book of Mormon. And the book of Ether? He must have been running out of names. Then there is Jacob's brother...he has no name, but is referred to only as Jacob's brother, although he is quite a prominent character in the BoM. Perry _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. _ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] regular guy????
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings Izzy et al in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! "Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine: And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:5-6 "... and YahVeh hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto Himself ..." Deuteronomy 14:2 "And YahVeh hath avouched thee this day to be His peculiar people ..." Deuteronomy 26:18 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great Almighty and our Saviour YahShua Messiah; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee." Titus 2:13-15 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light" I Peter 2:9 "... God is looking for a peculiar people. I figure I've got that part down PAT, man." Randy Matthews, 1974 Ditto all of the above. "... a regular guy" NO THANX! "If you could see what I've seen with these eyes. I've seen things you wouldn't believe: Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain." -- from near ending climactic (and best) scene in 'Blade Runner' ... one of the best films ever made If you could see what I've seen with these eyes. I've seen things you wouldn't believe: the works of Antoine Béchamp (greatest scientist in recorded history and perhaps of all time); cover-ups of cancer preventions and cures; simple cures for many other conditions covered up for the sake of filthy lucre. All these things (and many more) are hidden from eyes, ears and minds by The Almighty Himself due to prideful and wicked hearts. I was called and commissioned by YHVH as a young man (only a boy, really) as in Jeremiah 1:7-10. It is not an easy calling but it is mine. Jeremiah was not well like or received, either. I am humbly honored to be in that company. The prophetic office has Scripturally not been well received and often misunderstood. It is the same in this day. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, ChrisBarr a servant of YHVH - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 6:15 PM Subject: RE: YO, Mr. Moderator -- Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity My goodnessis Chris turning into a regular guy J Good one, Chris! Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris BarrSent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:54 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: YO, Mr. Moderator -- Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! - Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity Chris, you seem quite knowlegable. Please explain humility to us. You'll have to wait for my new book, 'Humility and How I Attained It'. [ That's a joke, of course. ] Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, ChrisBarr a servant of YHVH From: "Chris Barr" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:44:27 -0500 \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !! I just wonder why, if there is no possible plurality when speaking of God, that He finds it necesssary to say "God is one." John To come clearly and resolutely against the wicked such as yourself. Repent or perish. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
Re: [TruthTalk] Spirit
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings Dave et al in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 12:51 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Spirit DAVEH: Chris (or anybody else who'd be willing to comment)...Do you believe mortal men (you or I) are spirits as well?I believe what Scripture teaches ... see Genesis 2:7 for starters ... the life we have is a portion of YHVH ... whereas The Saviour had and was His fullness. Upon death that Spirit goes back to YHVH Who gave it. That is why it is so important what we do with our 'life' as it is not ours to do with as we will or we will not have 'life' everlasting. His life i.e. Spirit + my body = soul i.e. conscient existence(Genesis 2:7) Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, ChrisBarr a servant of YHVH - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 12:51 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Spirit So also God is 'HOLY SPIRIT', simply put, as Jesus told the woman at the well, "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24). Since He is God, then of course He is The 'HOLY SPIRIT'.DAVEH: Chris (or anybody else who'd be willing to comment)...Do you believe mortal men (you or I) are spirits as well?-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Smithson ... Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings sinner in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed In a message dated 4/7/2004 7:50:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Repent or perish. What does this mean -- become a Mormon or acept Christ as the Lord of your life? John It means neither of those unScriptural choices. It means 'Repent or perish' just as it says. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, ChrisBarr a servant of YHVH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed In a message dated 4/7/2004 7:50:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Repent or perish. What does this mean -- become a Mormon or acept Christ as the Lord of your life? John
Smithson again ... Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings sinner again in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 1:33 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John Quincy Adams on the trinity In a message dated 4/7/2004 7:46:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just wonder why, if there is no possible plurality when speaking of God, that He finds it necesssary to say "God is one." John To come clearly and resolutely against the wicked such as yourself. Should I expect a real answer or is this the best you can do? John Most of the Jews expected Messiah but missed Him when He came ... you received a real answer but missed it as it came to you ... ... AND ... No, that is not the best that I can do but it is the best that you will get except you repent. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, ChrisBarr a servant of YHVH
Smithson yet again ... Re: [TruthTalk] Spirit
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings sinner yet again in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Spirit I might be thinking wrong about Chris Barr - mormon or street fighter? John Yes, you are thinking wrong about Chris Barr (again and again and again ad infinitum ad nauseum), and neither, again (vis a vis mormon or street fighter). Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, ChrisBarr a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed
Wow! What an interesting story. The two bro's, Jared and Mahonri. Thanks for the historical update. From: Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:19:46 -0600 Blaine: Oh, OK, I thought that might have been the case. Yes, the Brother of Jared, whose name was Mahonri Moriancumr. Joseph Smith gave the name out after the Book of Mormon was written, saying the name had a sacred meaning to the Jaredites, therefore was not included in the writings of the Gold Plates, but was revealed to Joseph Smith through divine answer to prayer. - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed Oops! Jared's brother. Can you find that in your BoM? From: Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:36:13 -0600 Blaine: Jacob's brother? I can't find this reference in my BoM, Perry. Please help? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Terry not blessed From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I just did something rather scary --- I typed Mormon but left out the second m If you ever see that IT WAS A TYPE-O ). Actually, John, there IS a character in the book of Mormon named Moron. See Ether 11:14ff. And of course, there is Moroni (plural of Moron? Italian for Moron?) Perhaps the use of Moron as a name was a practical joke JS wove into his novel called the Book of Mormon. And the book of Ether? He must have been running out of names. Then there is Jacob's brother...he has no name, but is referred to only as Jacob's brother, although he is quite a prominent character in the BoM. Perry _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. _ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. _ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Protestants
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ftr, yes, I am a Protestant:) DAVEH: How do you get that from the NT, g? On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:46:12 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:52:47 -0700 "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Asking G to show youwhere the word "Protestant" is 'defined' in the[N]T..[?] aninterestingpremise sharedby DavidM and DaveH isthat the NT has to betheir 'dictionary' however,it's not possible for the Spiritto present oppositewording, and the meanings of his words,identically.. therefore, DavidM and DaveH, in agreement on their dictionary/'bible',are thinking convenient thoughtsjointly..from a common demonic source(?) ..not, however,from the NT(!) G ~ P 235 -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Spirit
Chris Barr wrote: \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings Dave et al in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/08/2004 12:51 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Spirit DAVEH: Chris (or anybody else who'd be willing to comment)...Do you believe mortal men (you or I) are spirits as well? I believe what Scripture teaches ... see Genesis 2:7 for starters ... the life we have is a portion of YHVH ... whereas The Saviour had and was His fullness. Upon death that Spirit goes back to YHVH Who gave it. DAVEH: Do you believe your spirit will have a physical (resurrected) body attached to it at some point in the future. And, IF so, do you believe bad people will also gain a resurrected physical body after death? That is why it is so important what we do with our 'life' as it is not ours to do with as we will or we will not have 'life' everlasting. His life i.e. Spirit + my body = soul i.e. conscient existence(Genesis 2:7) Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, ChrisBarr a servant of YHVH - Original Message - -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
[TruthTalk] Still in school ...
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! Tsk, tsk, tsk ... John, it is so very hard for you to get anything right ... 1. I am no baby goat 2. I am like a little child (Matthew 18:3-4) 3.Not any where near close to 20 - 25 4.Still attending Holiness school ... at the feet of YahShua ! 5. Written exams are frequent but never botched ... always been blessed with excellence on exams by The Almighty ONE. 6. I have changed much as I have been consistently transformed into His image by His renewing of my mind. 7. You have never seen any, let alone many, like this servant of YHVH I was raised much as Rav Shaul "at the feet of Gamaliel" ... VBS at AoG at age 4 ... then moved into evangelical fundamentalism (IFCA) and baptists (ABC) where Sunday School teachers and ministers were students and professors at leading national Bible colleges and seminaries. "Then YahShua came" as the old hymn notes with my own personal Damascus road experience. Briefly instructed by a Oneness minister (just like Rav Shaul), baptized in The Name (just like Rav Shaul was and did) and filled with The Ruach ha Kadosh in that old time, first century (and ancient Israel in the wilderness) tongue-talkin' way, before being personally whisked away for almost 14 years for personal instruction by The Saviour Himself (just like Rav Shaul) before being released to create no small stir (just like Rav Shaul) and "this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the Almighty of my fathers, believing ALL things written in Torah and in the prophets" (JUST LIKE RAV SHAUL). Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, ChrisBarr a servant of YHVH
[TruthTalk] What about this William Penn, Quaker writing?
Dear participants on TruthTalk, I have the privelege of knowing some Quakers, some of my dearest freinds. They have done considerable study into the origins of their own faith. I asked them about what Chris Barr has said concerning Wiliam Penn's beliefs about "thetrinity,""oneness,"andPenn's other beliefs. Here is what they testify: - Original Message - Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: Re: What about this William Penn, Quaker writing? First of all, none but a handful of Quakers throughout history ever kept the Sabbath. I think today there are only two -- me and my wife. Second, William Penn, like all conservative Friends, did not hold to the trinity doctrine but believed that the Father God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has, and sent His son Jesus (Yeshua if you wish) to redeem mankind. Two distinct personalities. Two distinct persons (for lack of better terms) , one created by the other (in unknowable worlds before us) and one who calls the other "God." Ref John 20:17 No personage is given to the Spirit of God because it is a PART of God's makeup not God in whole. Jesus said in John 16:13-15, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you."Clearly the Spirit is one of the things "God hath" or a power or manifestation of God but not wholly God Himself. The Spirit of God is the selfsame Spirit that is in you. God's Spirit -- in you -- just as it was in Christ. John 14:17-18, "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: [Here Jesus equates the Spirit with Himself] I will come to you."William Penn's Writing falls short of the oneness doctrine as much as it does the trinity doctrine. In reality the writing is somewhat a "hedged bet" (if the Quaker brethren will forgive me). He said that he was opposed to using the TERM "trinity" because it was not a word from Scripture. He called it a Schoolmen's term. He actually goes on to say that he believes in the "three that bear record in heaven" not knowing that the 1st John 5:7 Scripture was of dubious origin, for it had not yet been discovered missing in earlier transcripts.No, on the trinity William Penn, though he is a hero of mine offers little ammunition to dispel the false doctrine. But he offers less to anyone claiming that Yeshua and Yahweh are one and the same.I've told you before that the Internet is a cesspool of cowards who get a false sense of accomplishment by arguing points using trite sayings, cut and paste arguments, and electronic gimmickry and whether they win or lose their argument they do so with people who have no commitment to true discovery. All of their life they will stare into the "dark glass" of their computers and never face to face with flesh and blood. The chat room is the platform of cowards and the showplace of ignorance. "Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: (Computers) but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face..." 2 John 1:12Let me share with you the Scripture that we chose as the theme for the feast -- it seems appropriate:"As much as you can aim to know your neighbors and consult with the wise, Let your conversation be with intelligent people, and let all of your discussion be about the Law of the Most High."Sirach 9:14-15Don
