[TruthTalk] What about this William Penn, Quaker writing?

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear participants on TruthTalk,   I have the privelege of knowing some Quakers, some of my dearest freinds.  They have done considerable study into the origins of their own faith.    I asked them about what Chris Barr has said concerning Wiliam Penn's beliefs about "the trinity," "oneness," and Penn's other beliefs.  Here is what they testify:   ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: Re: What about this William Penn, Quaker writing? First of all, none but a handful of Quakers throughout history ever kept the Sabbath. I think today there are only two -- me and my wife. Second, William Penn, like all conservative Friends, did not hold to the trinity doctrine but believed that the Father God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has, and sent His son Jesus (Yeshua if you wish) to redeem mankind. Two distinct personalities. Two distinct persons (for lack of better terms) , one created by the other (in unknowable worlds before us) and one who calls the other "God." Ref John 20:17 No personage is given to the Spirit of God because it is a PART of God's makeup not God in whole. Jesus said in John 16:13-15, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.  All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." Clearly the Spirit is one of the things "God hath" or a power or manifestation of God but not wholly God Himself. The Spirit of God is the selfsame Spirit that is in you. God's Spirit -- in you -- just as it was in Christ. John 14:17-18, "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.  I will not leave you comfortless: [Here Jesus equates the Spirit with Himself] I will come to you." William Penn's Writing falls short of the oneness doctrine as much as it does the trinity doctrine. In reality the writing is somewhat a "hedged bet" (if the Quaker brethren will forgive me). He said that he was opposed to using the TERM "trinity" because it was not a word from Scripture. He called it a Schoolmen's term. He actually goes on to say that he believes in the "three that bear record in heaven" not knowing that the 1st John 5:7 Scripture was of dubious origin, for it had not yet been discovered missing in earlier transcripts. No, on the trinity William Penn, though he is a hero of mine offers little ammunition to dispel the false doctrine. But he offers less to anyone claiming that Yeshua and Yahweh are one and the same. I've told you before that the Internet is a cesspool of cowards who get a false sense of accomplishment by arguing points using trite sayings, cut and paste arguments, and electronic gimmickry and whether they win or lose their argument they do so with people who have no commitment to true discovery. All of their life they will stare into the "dark glass" of their computers and never face to face with flesh and blood. The chat room is the platform of cowards and the showplace of ignorance.  "Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: (Computers) but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face..." 2 John 1:12 Let me share with you the Scripture that we chose as the theme for the feast -- it seems appropriate: "As much as you can aim to know your neighbors and consult with the wise, Let your conversation be with intelligent people, and let all of your discussion be about the Law of the Most High." Sirach 9:14-15 Don