date:20040411

In a message dated 4/10/2004 3:41:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


WhewI thought you were regressing, there, John. J Izzy


I keep trying, Izzy. In fact, my mother said I was always trying. 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

In a message dated 4/10/2004 6:23:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 We all come up a little short, and we hate that.


So, before the cross we practiced sin and committed acts of righteousness.

Now we practice righteousness and commit acts of sin. 

I thought that sounded pretty good

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

In a message dated 4/10/2004 6:59:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 Shirley has had migraine headaches with this pregnancy. Please pray for their protection, and for the Lord to bless, prosper, and use them mightily. Thanks so much. 
 


I just did and my sweetie and I will continue to do so. Keep us up dated. 


John

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

In a message dated 4/10/2004 8:24:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 Seems like
too many think it too rude to tell David Miller that he is wrong about
this and why he is wrong.



Hasn't been my problem. When ignored, however, I leave well enough along. 

John

[TruthTalk] Fwd: Fw: Bible Jim#039;s Website Feedback---HAPPY EASTER!!

2004-04-11 Thread ELSMANLAW

SAINTS:
 

 THIS IS THE OBJECT OF ALL PREACHING TO SINNERS, DISCUSSION  AND ENCOURAGING 
OF THE SAINTS---THE CONVICTION OF SIN, EVEN IF THE LISTENERS, IN THE WORDS OF ROMANS 
10, QUOTING FROM ISAIAH, SAY: WHO HATH BELIEVED YOUR REPORT?
  HAPPY EASTER!!  CHRIST HATH RISEN; CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN!!
  ---ELSMAN
P.S.
 THIS IS AN EMAIL SENT TO DR. JAMES WEBBER THIS WEEK,  AS HE WAS PREACHING AT THE 
U. OF ARIZONA AT MESA, NEAR PHOENIX---A VERY HEATHEN UNIVERSITY, BY THE WAY, WHERE 
STUDENTS HARDLY WEAR CLOTHES, ESPECIALLY THE BIKINI-CLAD WOMEN.
---BeginMessage---


 Sender's Name: Shrill gay boy at asu
 Sender's Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Message: You are a sad excuse for a person Bible thumpin Jim. All you do
is spew lies and hate and if there is a god, you will get what you deserve
in the end. A big fat bolt up ur ass. I think you should be hit by a rainbow
float, and whos driving it is rupaul and elton join. I hope you know there
is karma out there, and you will get back what you send out. I hope your
\wife\ other wise known as your left hand, cheats on you and leaves you
with nothing but your trailer and your imbredded children. You are a
disgrace towards human kind and I hope u choke on those evil hate words that
you spew out,loser..



---End Message---

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

2004-04-11 Thread Lance Muir

At the consummation of the age do we go to heaven or, does heaven come to
us? Did Jesus assume the pre or post fallen nature of Adam at the
Incarnation? Is human nature comprised of one, two or three parts (body,
soul, spirit)? The rapture? Does what/how we believe influence how we live?
Yes. This is how we determine who someone actually is.Have you ever met
someone(s) who's understanding appears wrong on some thing(s) but, whose
life (lives) are so utterly genuine as to be humbling when in their
presence? Talking of Truth is beneficial but...Blessings, Lance
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 11, 2004 05:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

 David said: Seems like too many think it too rude to tell David Miller
that
 he is wrong about THIS and why he is wrong. Please tell us with as much
 clarity and precision as is possible  the THIS you're believing. With
 apologies in advance to those who find this objectionable, don't quote
 scripture. Say in your words what you believe scripture teaches on THIS.
If
 you've done this before I missed it. The BT/DM discussion is valuable. I
 appreciate it. Extend the context from word  tense to God Himself. This,
I
 believe, is where all discussions end. The mind/heart of God on the matter
 is...Blessings, LanceApril 10, 2004 23:24
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

  Bill wrote:
   I bring my knowledge of these truths from the
   Gospels of Christ with me to my translation of
   John's epistle. I do not apologize for that.

  Yes, it does seem to me that you let your theology force itself upon the
  passage.  We all bring such with us, but we should try to let the
  passage speak for itself.  I certainly do not disagree with the theology
  you bring, but when it blinds you to other issues being brought forth,
  that is troublesome to me.

  Bill wrote:
   And so you or any Greek scholar are welcome
   to disagree with my rendering of these Greek
   words. I ask only that you be honest enough
   to consider what you are bringing with you
   when you go to the same text and begin
   to translate.

  I think I am well aware of what I bring with me, but if not, it seems
  like nobody will step up to the plate and tell me about it.  Seems like
  too many think it too rude to tell David Miller that he is wrong about
  this and why he is wrong.

  Look, you never addressed my main question.  I never objected to word
  order at all, but you gave a long lecture about how word order does not
  matter.  Fine.  No problem there.  My problem was with how you perceived
  pas to be modifying oidamen.  I have been taught and have observed
  in the Greek Bible that adjectives always agree in case, gender, and
  number with the words they modify.  So if this word was being used to
  modify oidamen as you say, it should be plural instead of singular.
  In other words, the word would have been rendered pantes instead of
  pas.  Therefore, I reject your translation on this basis.  If you say
  fine, and leave it at that, then I guess life goes on.  However, I think
  a truly honest discussion would consider this point and attempt to help
  me understand my error, or you would recognize that you have brought too
  much of your theology into play here and are missing the aspect that
  John is bringing out here, and that is how Christ becomes incarnated
  within us, how we partake of his divine nature, and how it finds
  expression through us.  We truly receive power to become sons of God, as
  John mentions in his gospel.

  I also asked you to show some passages which use pas as a modifier in
  the way that you suggest, but your response offered none.  This is a
  very common word, used more than 1200 times.  I have checked many and I
  can't find any.  I can only assume from your silence that you have never
  seen it either.  I have brought to you other passages that have used
  pas in connection ho and seems to translate it well as whosoever.
  No comment from you about that.

  In this last post, you seem to want to force pas as a modifier and do
  not realize that adjectives often stand alone.  Mounce terms this being
  either adjectivally or substantivally.  Obviously I take the
  position that pas is used substantivally here, but you seem to see no
  option for that.

  I presented the interlinears, hoping for you to provide your own, and
  perhaps from there lead to a translation that is appreciative of the
  words used in the text.  I was a little confused by your reference to
  transliteration when it seemed that you perhaps meant the interlinear
  translation.  You seemed to agree with the interlinears I provided, yet
  your translation strays very far away from it.  You claim liberty to do
  this because a transliteration is not a translation.  Ok.  How about
  then providing me with other Greek scholars fluent in Greek who would
  translate this passage as you have.  I have searched dozens of
  translations

RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection









I like that, John. Izzy













I leave well enough
along.  

John

RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection









Lance, You just described David Miller perfectly.
That's why I agree with him. Izzy



-Original Message-
Have you ever met Someone whose life (lives) are so utterly genuine as
to be humbling when in their

presence?

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

Terry, do you believe that one who is saved can lose that salvation?

Perry

From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:27:46 -0500
Judy Taylor wrote:

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I for one would appreciate comments  questions from all participants.
I firmly believe that the heart of God may be known on this matter. 
Lance

Based on what I read in the Bible, I believe that once a person has 
committed him/her self to follow Christ, sin will no longer be the PATTERN 
of their life.  If they are in Christ, they will hate sin as He does.  If 
they are filled with the Holy Spirit, they will have the ability to never 
sin again.  Still, hating sin and having the ability to live a perfect life 
does not guarantee a sinless life; as most of us can testify.  That is why 
we need a Savior.  If you hate sin and still screw up on occasion, you have 
an advocate to plead your case, and mercy and grace are available.  If sin 
is the pattern of your life, to me that is an indication that you are not 
right with your creator and you are very likely bound for Hell.
Terry
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

Lance Muir wrote:

At the consummation of the age do we go to heaven or, does heaven come to
us? Did Jesus assume the pre or post fallen nature of Adam at the
Incarnation? Is human nature comprised of one, two or three parts (body,
soul, spirit)? The rapture? Does what/how we believe influence how we live?
Yes. This is how we determine who someone actually is.Have you ever met
someone(s) who's understanding appears wrong on some thing(s) but, whose
life (lives) are so utterly genuine as to be humbling when in their
presence? Talking of Truth is beneficial but...Blessings, Lance
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Excellent observation Lance.  David Miller is the only one on this list 
that I have met in person, and we did not get an opportunity to spend as 
much time together as I would have liked, but I can guarantee you 
without reservation that he is my brother in Christ and a kind and godly 
man.  Do we agree on everything?  Sadly, no, but we believe on Christ, 
and for now, that is enough for us to bond and bear with one another as 
we share what the Lord has impressed on each of us.  I know that this is 
profitable for me.  I suspect that it is also of some value to him.
Terry



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

[TruthTalk] (no subject)





He is risen.
The most important three nwords ever spoken
Terry

RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

Actually, Izzy, she had a 50% chance on the getting the first right, and a 
50% chance of getting the second right, apart from the first, but only a 25% 
chance of getting them both right. Isn't math wonderful?

However, I think her getting the 25% chance right is just that...pure 
chance. I know your grandchildren are wonderful, but probably not 
clairvoyant. :-)

Perry


From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk]  Christian Children
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:54:41 -0500
TTers,



My son, Todd, and his wife, Shirley, have 3 daughters.  Gretchen (to be 6
this July 4th), Heidi (just turned 4), and Sofie (just turned 2).  When
Shirley was pg. with Sofie two years ago (Gretchen was 3 ½) they were all
hoping for a boy (werent sure what it would be), and talking about a baby
boy, etc.  Shirley said all of a sudden one day when they were talking like
that, Gretchen looked at her seriously and said, No, Mommy.  This baby is
going to be a girl. The next one will be a boy.   Now Shirley is pg. 
again,
and this time they asked ultrasound tech to tell them the sex.  Its a boy!
:-)  Question: Can a 3 yr old girl have a prophetic gift? (Or did she just
have a 50:50 chance, and got it right?)



Also, last year they explained the gospel clearly to Gretchen, and she
prayed to be born again.  Then they said she started asking about their
neighbors, one by one, wanting to know if they are saved, too.  Todd 
Shirley said they werent exactly sure whether the neighbors were saved or
not.  Gretchen then cried and begged until they gave her permission to go 
to
each neighbors house, knock on the door, and tell them that Jesus loves
them, and they needed to ask Jesus into their hearts.  Then she was happy.
What a pure heart children have when they are raised in a godly home!



Todd  Shirley dont allow the girls to watch TV, they homeschool, 
(Gretchen
was reading at 4 yrs, now Heidi is reading, too), and they of course are
very involved in church and homeschooling groups.  Last week they were not
able to go on their usual trip with the church group to visit and minister
at the local nursing home.  Gretchen cried, heartbroken, about it.  She 
just
loves going! Please pray for Todds whole family, including the new baby 
boy
(due in October).  Shirley has had migraine headaches with this pregnancy.
Please pray for their protection, and for the Lord to bless, prosper, and
use them mightily.  Thanks so much.



Izzy



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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fwd: Fw: Bible Jim's Website Feedback---HAPPY EASTER!!

Jim,

  Thanks for the easter wishes, but why would you even spend 2 seconds 
forwarding the vile message attached to your post? It was totally 
unnecessary, did not pertain to truth talk at all, and totally destroyed the 
tone of your easter wishes. For a Christian, it sure seems like you have a 
problem with profanity, Jim. Why is it that you that you cannot keep your 
posts clean and on topic? If your message contains no vulgarity, you seem to 
work it in by forwarding a message that does! We are not interested in those 
posts. They not welcome on truthtalk. And, if you have placed the Truthtalk 
posting address on a general mailing list of your, please remove it.

Perry the Moderator


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fwd: Fw: Bible Jim's Website Feedback---HAPPY EASTER!!
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 06:01:51 -0400
SAINTS:

 THIS IS THE OBJECT OF ALL PREACHING TO SINNERS, DISCUSSION  AND 
ENCOURAGING OF THE SAINTS---THE CONVICTION OF SIN, EVEN IF THE LISTENERS, 
IN THE WORDS OF ROMANS 10, QUOTING FROM ISAIAH, SAY: WHO HATH BELIEVED 
YOUR REPORT?
  HAPPY EASTER!!  CHRIST HATH RISEN; CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN!!
  ---ELSMAN
P.S.
 THIS IS AN EMAIL SENT TO DR. JAMES WEBBER THIS WEEK,  AS HE WAS 
PREACHING AT THE U. OF ARIZONA AT MESA, NEAR PHOENIX---A VERY HEATHEN 
UNIVERSITY, BY THE WAY, WHERE STUDENTS HARDLY WEAR CLOTHES, ESPECIALLY THE 
BIKINI-CLAD WOMEN.
 message3.txt 
_
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download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

[TruthTalk] Christian Voting vs nonChristian

How does church attendance affect one's political party? From WorldNetDaily:
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595055302,00.htmlIzzy



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

Perry, LOL! I certainly hope Gretchen is not clairvoyant.  However, I like
to think that either the Lord spoke through her, or perhaps we are seeing an
inkling of a future prophetic ministry. Izzy 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 7:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

Actually, Izzy, she had a 50% chance on the getting the first right, and a 
50% chance of getting the second right, apart from the first, but only a 25%

chance of getting them both right. Isn't math wonderful?

However, I think her getting the 25% chance right is just that...pure 
chance. I know your grandchildren are wonderful, but probably not 
clairvoyant. :-)

Perry

From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk]  Christian Children
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:54:41 -0500

TTers,

My son, Todd, and his wife, Shirley, have 3 daughters.  Gretchen (to be 6
this July 4th), Heidi (just turned 4), and Sofie (just turned 2).  When
Shirley was pg. with Sofie two years ago (Gretchen was 3 ½) they were all
hoping for a boy (werent sure what it would be), and talking about a baby
boy, etc.  Shirley said all of a sudden one day when they were talking like
that, Gretchen looked at her seriously and said, No, Mommy.  This baby is
going to be a girl. The next one will be a boy.   Now Shirley is pg. 
again,
and this time they asked ultrasound tech to tell them the sex.  Its a boy!
:-)  Question: Can a 3 yr old girl have a prophetic gift? (Or did she just
have a 50:50 chance, and got it right?)

Also, last year they explained the gospel clearly to Gretchen, and she
prayed to be born again.  Then they said she started asking about their
neighbors, one by one, wanting to know if they are saved, too.  Todd 
Shirley said they werent exactly sure whether the neighbors were saved or
not.  Gretchen then cried and begged until they gave her permission to go 
to
each neighbors house, knock on the door, and tell them that Jesus loves
them, and they needed to ask Jesus into their hearts.  Then she was happy.
What a pure heart children have when they are raised in a godly home!

Todd  Shirley dont allow the girls to watch TV, they homeschool, 
(Gretchen
was reading at 4 yrs, now Heidi is reading, too), and they of course are
very involved in church and homeschooling groups.  Last week they were not
able to go on their usual trip with the church group to visit and minister
at the local nursing home.  Gretchen cried, heartbroken, about it.  She 
just
loves going! Please pray for Todds whole family, including the new baby 
boy
(due in October).  Shirley has had migraine headaches with this pregnancy.
Please pray for their protection, and for the Lord to bless, prosper, and
use them mightily.  Thanks so much.

Izzy

_
Check out MSN PC Safety  Security to help ensure your PC is protected and 
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

In a message dated 4/11/2004 4:10:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


At the consummation of the age do we go to heaven or, does heaven come to
us? Did Jesus assume the pre or post fallen nature of Adam at the
Incarnation? Is human nature comprised of one, two or three "parts" (body,
soul, spirit)? The rapture? Does what/how we believe influence how we live?
Yes. This is how we determine who someone actually is.Have you ever met
someone(s) who's "understanding" appears wrong on some thing(s) but, whose
life (lives) are so utterly genuine as to be humbling when in their
presence? "Talking of Truth" is beneficial but...Blessings, Lance
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Great questions. Pre-post the nature of Adam? Never never thought of that. But I have seen dozens of genuine christian actions. Ps 51 and Romans 2 make it clear that the heart of man is an extremely important consideration -- extending beyond our ability or desire to be right on all fronts. 


John

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

In a message dated 4/11/2004 5:38:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I like that, John. Izzy
 


I leave well enough along. 

John



Thank you. I must say that I mean DavidM nothing but good. He is genuine in his personal effort spent on being a passonate follower of Christ. He is a servant of another (Romans 14:4) as we all are. 

John

[TruthTalk] UPC





\o/ !HALALUYah! 
\o/ 


Greetings in the Matchless 
NameofYahShua!!

Oh, John Smithson, you have been fooled by the enemy due to bad experience 
with UPC (Under Privileged Children). An exceedingly vile and wicked 
organization with yet a few of the children of The Almighty mixed in 
perhaps.

If you'd stick to The Word and Jeremiah 29:13 instead of doing that which 
is right in your own eyes you could see the light to find your way our from your 
present darkness.



Ahava b' YahShua























(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)

Baruch YHVH,









ChrisBarr
a servant 
of YHVH

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: 04/09/2004 6:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Still in school 
  ...
  In a message dated 4/8/2004 10:49:41 PM Pacific 
  Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
  
  (JUST LIKE RAV SHAUL). Yeh, yeh, yeh. My 
  ex-mother-in-law is oneness -- United Pentecostle Church of God. 
  A doctrine spawned from the seeds of legalism.  But, hey, 
  the first church was full of legalists and many of them were saved.  
  Thanks for bio.  John

[TruthTalk] Brainieac?





\o/ !HALALUYah! 
\o/ 


Greetings Amy in the Matchless 
NameofYahShua!!

I'm telling you all that this Chris Barr guy is a 
brainieac, well versed in bibilical studies, one of a few who actually 
understands his own claimed theology and loves to wrile people up 
(Dennis the Menace complexity) -- and he is a real 
hoot on top of it all. Too bad about the right and wrong thing but 
no is perfect.  John

That would be "rile" ... too bad about the 
right and wrong thing indeed ... you and the Smithsonian both put up a good 
front but it is all for show and telling rather than about ultimate 
truth.



Ahava b' YahShua























(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)

Baruch YHVH,









ChrisBarr
a servant 
of YHVH




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: 04/09/2004 6:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] St. John's 
  Wort?
  In a message dated 4/9/2004 
  4:16:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
  
  The concentration of the juice without the bulk is a stress to 
the system. The Almighty intended us to get ALL of what he put in 
"fruit bearing seed for your meat". It's OK as I previously noted but 
it can be a problem if sustained over a lengthy period of time.I'm telling 
  you all that this Chris Barr guy is a brainieac, well versed in bibilical 
  studies, one of a few who actually understands his own claimed theology and 
  loves to wrile people up (Dennis the Menace complexity) -- 
  and he is a real hoot on top of it all. Too bad about 
  the right and wrong thing but no is perfect.  John

Re: [TruthTalk] UPC

In a message dated 4/11/2004 8:42:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Oh, John Smithson, you have been fooled by the enemy due to bad experience with UPC (Under Privileged Children). An exceedingly vile and wicked organization with yet a few of the children of The Almighty mixed in perhaps.
 
If you'd stick to The Word and Jeremiah 29:13 instead of doing that which is right in your own eyes you could see the light to find your way our from your present darkness.


I spend much time in the word, Chris. No one is always right when it comes to his/her understanding (interpretation). That is why I Co. 8:1-4 is so important to discussion groups such as this. 

Do you attend a church that shares you oneness theology? 


John

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

In a message dated 4/11/2004 6:40:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


David Miller is the only one on this list 
that I have met in person, and we did not get an opportunity to spend as 
much time together as I would have liked, but I can guarantee you 
without reservation that he is my brother in Christ and a kind and godly 
man. Do we agree on everything? Sadly, no

My sentiments exactly. I have talked with David on the phone and was quite taken with a confession that he might share on this list. A confession that shows just how serious his determination to be right with God is. I see that same concern with most on this list. 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Brainieac?

In a message dated 4/11/2004 8:51:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


That would be "rile" ... too bad about the right and wrong thing indeed ... you and the Smithsonian both put up a good front but it is all for show and telling rather than about ultimate truth.
 


What do you mean by this.

J

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

I remember a family in a fellowship I was with where the little girl prayed
that God would let her have identical twin brothers.  Her mother was not
pregnant, was not planning to be pregnant, and there were not twins in the
family.

About a year later, the mother gave birth to identical twin boys.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

In a message dated 4/11/2004 8:56:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I remember a family in a fellowship I was with where the little girl prayed
that God would let her have identical twin brothers. Her mother was not
pregnant, was not planning to be pregnant, and there were not twins in the
family.

About a year later, the mother gave birth to identical twin boys.


Perry, what would be the odds on this. 

John

[TruthTalk] More recent than 50 years ago?

Title: Romans , Chapter 14

\o/ !HALALU
Yah!
\o/

Greetings in
the Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the
name Jesus was called by His
mom,
dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved
Him] !!

The Saviour rose much, MUCH more than 50
years ago ... does that make it irrelevant? YOU don't make sense,
Izzy.

Just because YOU don't understand it (over
your head?) doesn't mean that it "makes no (scientific)
sense".

This research did not come to me for
free. I offered you access to a starting point but perhaps YHVH has blinded you more than I realize. How
much of your husband's alleged expertise did he receive (or does he provide) FOR
FREE? What I've offered you is a BARGAIN compared to anything medicine
offers. I've put up so you can shut up.

Also, I don't know ANY incurable
diseases. As one of my early mentors and teachers, Dr. John Christopher,
noted, "There are no incurable diseases but there are incurable people."
Again, you don't make sense speaking of someone recovering from Crohn's and then
calling it incurable.

I've NEVER known a case of carpal tunnel
syndrome, acid reflux, or allergies that was not healed when following proper
nutritional instruction. More than 20 years ago I had a woman with an
"incurable" case of genital herpes brought to me and that was cleared up, too
(still have a very nice thank you note from that one). I've accomplished
MUCH that medicine says can't be done. Most of those accomplishments have
been by way of info about 50 years old and older. Raised up 8 children
without doctor bills. Hosea 4:6 is still true, today.

Have you or your husband read any Antoine
Béchamp (greatest scientist in recorded history and perhaps of all time)?
Widespread application of his extensive research would close just about all
hospitals and put an end to most medical practice.

Ahava b'
YahShua

(Love in The
SAVIOUR)

Baruch
YHVH,

ChrisBarr

a servant
of
YHVH

- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: 04/09/2004 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Science and
Scriptural dietary requirements

Chris,

Why cant you come up
with something a little more recent than 50 years ago? That whole article
makes no (scientific) sense. You brought this up
before, and I asked for the research, and you never provided it.

I think there are
real reasons the Lord prohibited eating scavengers, and The Makers Diet gives
good scientific reasons. The
author has a doctorate in nutrition, and was personally healed of Crohns
disease when he was a teenager ( which you know is incurable) by going on a
Biblical diet. But he does not include any of the stuff you quoted below.

I believe the
Levitical dietary and hygiene laws were given to protect Gods people from the
diseases of the unbelievers around them. I think that is still true
today. And I think we need a lot more research to investigate and
validate this today. In the meantime, its a faith thing. Which
isnt all bad. J

PS Ive also been
enjoying reading related books by Don Colbert, MD, who also advocates a
Biblical diet. Have you read any of those?

Izzy

From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Chris
BarrSent: Friday, April 09,
2004 5:19 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk] Science and
Scriptural dietary requirements

\o/ !HALALU
Yah!
\o/

Greetings in
the Matchless Name of YahShua
[that's the name
Jesus was called by His
mom,
dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved
Him] !!

Royal Raymond Rife created a microscope (The Universal
Microscope) in the 1920s which was more powerful than ANY microscope available
today. You can read about it in many places including the annals of The
Smithsonian Institution ("The New Microscopes" 1944/1945).Extensive
research by Rife with his microscope led to development of a cure for cancer
that was PROVEN to be 100%
effective in 1930s trials overseen by the AMA, The University of
Southern California, and Dr. Milbanks Johnson, M.D. (President, Los Angeles
County Medical Society at the time) at what would later come to be known as
the renowned Scripps Clinic in La Jolla, CA.Part of his research with
the microscope revealed to him a specific state that the blood MUST be in for
cancer to develop. In his notes he made notation of a curiosity to him. He had
discovered that pork caused the specific state for cancer to develop and grow
very rapidly. Whenever a test subject consumed pork, their blood entered into
that specific state of the blood that he had discovered was necessary for
cancer to develop. The blood would maintain this state for up to nine hours
after ingestion of pork.Rife was not a religious man. He had no saving
faith.

Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] UPC




Oh John!!
I'm wondering ifall pastors use 1 Cor 8:1-4 to 
cover what they
don't have answers for. My daughter in TX who has 
four young
impressionable children was assured by their Baptist 
pastor that it
is OK to go out and celebrate the devils holiday at 
Halloween just so
long as they don't look like devils; ie they dress them 
in Disney stuff
and this is the scripture he used to justify such evil 
counsel. Lord 
have mercy on his 
soul. judyt

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 

Oh, John Smithson, you have been fooled by the enemy due to bad 
experience with UPC (Under Privileged Children). An exceedingly vile 

and wicked organization with yet a few of the children of The Almighty 

mixed in perhaps. If you'd stick to The Word and Jeremiah 29:13 

instead of doing that which is right in your own eyes you could see 
the light to find your way our from your present darkness. 

john: I spend much time in the word, Chris. No one is always right 

when it comes to his/her understanding (interpretation). That 
is why 
I Co. 8:1-4 is so important to discussion groups such as this.Do you 

attend a church that shares you oneness theology?

[TruthTalk] Christian Children

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
I remember a family in a fellowship I was with where the little 
girl prayed that God would let her have identical twin brothers.  
Her mother was not pregnant, was not planning to be pregnant, 
and there were not twins in the family.  About a year later, the 
mother gave birth to identical twin boys. 

jt: Marvin, did/do you believe that this prayer was motivated by 
the Spirit of God?  Did your leadership have anything to say about
it?  Even Jesus our Master and example had to wait until he was
33yrs old to begin public ministry and as for the prophets, well
under the old covenant there were schools of the prophets and
no record of anyone other than Samuel being used at such a
young age.  Are you sure this was not divination?   

BTW was that the same Tim Stevenson or are there
two of them?  judyt
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:18 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I remember a family in a fellowship I was with where the little
 girl prayed that God would let her have identical twin brothers.
 Her mother was not pregnant, was not planning to be pregnant,
 and there were not twins in the family.  About a year later, the
 mother gave birth to identical twin boys.

 jt: Marvin, did/do you believe that this prayer was motivated by
 the Spirit of God?

Yes.

Did your leadership have anything to say about
 it?

Nothing was ever said.

Are you sure this was not divination?

It was a child's expectant prayer to God.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Nobody made any big deal about it.  We all just smiled and were happy for
the family about their blessing.

 BTW was that the same Tim Stevenson or are there
 two of them?  judyt

What?
Why are you asking me about this unfamiliar name out of the blue?

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] More recent than 50 years ago?

Title: Romans , Chapter 14








Chris,



As much as I agree with what you are
trying to say, at least in theory, your constant attacks against medical
scientific research (which is FREE online, as I have provided in a previous
post), makes you impossible to discourse with.



Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Barr
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:07
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] More recent
than 50 years ago?









\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ 











Greetings in the
Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the name Jesus was called by
His mom,
dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved Him]
!!



















The Saviour rose much, MUCH more than 50 years ago
... does that make it irrelevant? YOU don't make sense, Izzy.











Just because YOU don't understand it (over your
head?) doesn't mean that it makes no (scientific)
sense.











This research did not come to me for free. I
offered you access to a starting point but perhaps YHVH has blinded you more than I
realize. How much of your husband's alleged expertise did he receive (or
does he provide) FOR FREE? What I've offered you is a BARGAIN compared to
anything medicine offers. I've put up so you can shut up.











Also, I don't know ANY incurable diseases. As
one of my early mentors and teachers, Dr. John Christopher, noted, There
are no incurable diseases but there are incurable people. Again,
you don't make sense speaking of someone recovering from Crohn's and then
calling it incurable.











I've NEVER known a case of carpal tunnel syndrome,
acid reflux, or allergies that was not healed when following proper nutritional
instruction. More than 20 years ago I had a woman with an
incurable case of genital herpes brought to me and that was cleared
up, too (still have a very nice thank you note from that one). I've
accomplished MUCH that medicine says can't be done. Most of those
accomplishments have been by way of info about 50 years old and older.
Raised up 8 children without doctor bills. Hosea 4:6 is still true,
today.











Have you or your husband read any Antoine Béchamp
(greatest scientist in recorded history and perhaps of all time)?
Widespread application of his extensive research would close just about all
hospitals and put an end to most medical practice.













Ahava b' YahShua



























(Love in The
SAVIOUR)





Baruch YHVH,





























ChrisBarr





a servant of YHVH



















































- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Sent: 04/09/2004 6:49 PM





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Science and Scriptural dietary requirements









Chris, 



Why cant you come up with something
a little more recent than 50 years ago? That whole article makes no (scientific)
sense. You brought this up before, and I asked for the research, and you never
provided it. 



I think there are real reasons the Lord
prohibited eating scavengers, and The Makers Diet gives good scientific reasons. The author has a
doctorate in nutrition, and was personally healed of Crohns disease when
he was a teenager ( which you know is incurable) by going on a Biblical diet.
But he does not include any of the stuff you quoted below. 



I believe the Levitical dietary and
hygiene laws were given to protect Gods people from the diseases of the
unbelievers around them. I think that is still true today. And I think we
need a lot more research to investigate and validate this today. In the
meantime, its a faith thing. Which isnt all bad. J 



PS Ive also been enjoying reading related
books by Don Colbert, MD, who also advocates a Biblical diet. Have you
read any of those?



Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Barr
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 5:19
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] Science and
Scriptural dietary requirements











\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ 











Greetings in the
Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the name Jesus was called by
His mom,
dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved Him]
!!















Royal Raymond Rife created a microscope (The Universal Microscope) in
the 1920s which was more powerful than ANY microscope available today. You can
read about it in many places including the annals of The Smithsonian
Institution (The New Microscopes 1944/1945).

Extensive research by Rife with his microscope led to development of a cure for
cancer that was PROVEN to be 100% effective
in 1930s trials overseen by the AMA, The University of Southern California, and
Dr. Milbanks Johnson, M.D. (President, Los Angeles County Medical Society at
the time) at what would later come to be known as the renowned Scripps Clinic
in La Jolla, CA.

Part of his research with the microscope revealed to him a specific state that
the blood MUST be in for cancer to develop. In his notes he

[TruthTalk] Great idea, Smithson!

\o/ !HALALUYah!
\o/

Greetings in the Matchless
NameofYahShua!!

OK, I'll start ...

The book of Yacov ... y'all probably still think this NT book was written
by and named after 'James' ...

"Yacov, a servant of The Mighty One and of Adonay YahShua Messiah, to the twelve tribes
which are scattered abroad, greeting."

King Jimmy of 1611 was not a nice man (to put it very mildly). It was
very difficult to get him to agree to the translation work named in his
honor. The translators (credited far too highly than they ought)
manipulated text at times to suit their purposes and theology (though still
better than just about every other translation since then -- I personally prefer
the exegeses version which is the only one I know of since
KJV to stick to the same manuscripts as KJV that ALSOwas translated by a
Holy Spirit filled believer [as evidenced by his speaking in other tongues
asTheSpirit gave utterance] )!.

The book of Yacov was one of the bargaining chips to persway (teehee) his
majesty. I've heard it said that this was the one that finally swung him
over to back the work.

"Yo, King, one of the writings in Scripture beareth thy name."

Yacov actually anglicizes to Jacob, but, HEY, the lie was for a good cause
...

The book of Yacov was the very first of the NT writings to be penned.
It used to be listed right up near the front, too ... got shuffled w-a-a-a-y
back 'cause it was much too strong on its law and works TRUTH emphasis. Ye
ol' drunkard Luther even campaigned for its complete removal.

Now, NOTICE that in the very first words Yacov addressed this writing to
the twelve tribes scattered abroad.

Who ever said the tribes of Ysrael were lost, anyway? Yacov knew
about them and where they were. IT'S ALL IN THE BOOK, and right in the
very opening of this NT book within THE BOOK!

So how's that for a start for ya, John, my comments coveredgreek discussions, personal observations, contextual comments
(history, date, cultural applications, etc. ) as well
as whatever comes to mind.

Ahava b' YahShua

(Love in The
SAVIOUR)

Baruch YHVH,

ChrisBarr
a servant
of YHVH

- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: 04/10/2004 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] new dating for
Turin Shroud
Would this be any kind of an idea for this group:
Take a NT book (Philip or James or Romans or whatever),
start with verse one and each who are interested enter ideas and observations,
no debate, and move to the next verse. This would not be the only
thread, but it would be a continuing one. Those who are interested
in the mono e mono stuff that goes on in lists such as this (and
folks, there are several other lists that I know of and they are all much
worse than this list ever thought about being) could continue those threads
and all could contribute to the "thus saith the Lord to me " thread.
The comments might include greek discussions, personal
observations, contextual comments (history, date, cultural applications, etc.
) whatever comes to mind. If Kevin and Barr and G could present their
views in this format, I know I would be interested in their comments as well
as all others on this list. John Smithson.

Re: [TruthTalk] UPC





\o/ !HALALUYah! 
\o/ 


Greetings in the Matchless 
NameofYahShua!!

I spend much time in the word, Chris. 
...

POP QUIZ ...

Fill in the blank ...

"Howbeit, when ...

a.) the word, the completed canon of Scripture, is come, it 

b.) He, The Spirit of Truth, is come, He 

... will guide you into all truth."

(ANSWER KEY: Yochanan 16:13)

Lots of folks 
spend "much time in the word" but not so much (or very much at all IF at all) 
with The Author (also the Finisher of faith) -- The Living Word -- so they fall 
exceedingly short in the truth department. Amazing how much time they do 
spend with other authors about The Author's work.

Do you attend a church that shares you oneness theology? 
John

I pastor such an assembly and visit a wide variety of others at varying 
times.



Ahava b' YahShua























(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)

Baruch YHVH,









ChrisBarr
a servant 
of YHVH

Re: [TruthTalk] More recent than 50 years ago?

2004-04-11 Thread Lance Muir

Title: Romans , Chapter 14



Chris: I have no reason to imagine that your 
demeanour in person is better than that which you exhibit here.You owe 
Izzy an apology."Cure" is a "short-term" word at best'. All that health 
care of any kind can do is prolong life/delay death. This, I believe is a 
reality unless you are privy to knowledge that I'm not. Lance- 
Original Message - 

  From: 
  Chris Barr 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: April 11, 2004 12:06
  Subject: [TruthTalk] More recent than 50 
  years ago?
  
  
  
  \o/ !HALALU 
  Yah! 
  \o/ 
  
  
  
  
  
  Greetings in 
  the Matchless Name of YahShua 
  [that's the name 
  Jesus was called by His 
  mom, 
  dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved 
  Him] !!
  
  
  The Saviour rose much, MUCH more than 50 
  years ago ... does that make it irrelevant? YOU don't make sense, 
  Izzy.
  
  Just because YOU don't understand it 
  (over your head?) doesn't mean that it "makes no (scientific) 
  sense".
  
  This research did not come to me for 
  free. I offered you access to a starting point but perhaps YHVH has blinded you more than I realize. 
  How much of your husband's alleged expertise did he receive (or does he 
  provide) FOR FREE? What I've offered you is a BARGAIN compared to 
  anything medicine offers. I've put up so you can shut up.
  
  Also, I don't know ANY incurable 
  diseases. As one of my early mentors and teachers, Dr. John Christopher, 
  noted, "There are no incurable diseases but there are incurable people." 
  Again, you don't make sense speaking of someone recovering from Crohn's and 
  then calling it incurable.
  
  I've NEVER known a case of carpal tunnel 
  syndrome, acid reflux, or allergies that was not healed when following proper 
  nutritional instruction. More than 20 years ago I had a woman with an 
  "incurable" case of genital herpes brought to me and that was cleared up, too 
  (still have a very nice thank you note from that one). I've accomplished 
  MUCH that medicine says can't be done. Most of those accomplishments 
  have been by way of info about 50 years old and older. Raised up 8 
  children without doctor bills. Hosea 4:6 is still true, 
  today.
  
  Have you or your husband read any Antoine 
  Béchamp (greatest scientist in recorded history and perhaps of all 
  time)? Widespread application of his extensive research would close just 
  about all hospitals and put an end to most medical practice.
  
  
  
  Ahava b' 
  YahShua
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  (Love in The 
  SAVIOUR)
  
  Baruch 
  YHVH,
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  ChrisBarr
  
  a servant 
  of 
  YHVH
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
ShieldsFamily 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: 04/09/2004 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Science and 
Scriptural dietary requirements


Chris, 


Why cant you come 
up with something a little more recent than 50 years ago? That whole article 
makes no (scientific) sense. You brought this up 
before, and I asked for the research, and you never provided it. 


I think there are 
real reasons the Lord prohibited eating scavengers, and The Makers Diet 
gives good scientific 
reasons. The author has a doctorate in nutrition, and was personally healed 
of Crohns disease when he was a teenager ( which you know is incurable) by 
going on a Biblical diet. But he does not include any of the stuff you 
quoted below. 

I believe the 
Levitical dietary and hygiene laws were given to protect Gods people from 
the diseases of the unbelievers around them. I think that is still true 
today. And I think we need a lot more research to investigate and 
validate this today. In the meantime, its a faith thing. Which 
isnt all bad. J 


PS Ive also been 
enjoying reading related books by Don Colbert, MD, who also advocates a 
Biblical diet. Have you read any of 
those?

Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of Chris 
BarrSent: Friday, April 
09, 2004 5:19 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk] Science and 
Scriptural dietary requirements




\o/ 
!HALALU Yah! 
\o/ 





Greetings 
in the Matchless Name of YahShua 
[that's the name 
Jesus was called by His 
mom, dad, brothers, sisters, disciples 
and others who loved Him] 
!!


Royal Raymond Rife created a microscope (The 
Universal Microscope) in the 1920s which was more powerful than ANY 
microscope available today. You can read about it in many places including 
the annals of The Smithsonian Institution ("The New Microscopes" 
1944/1945).Extensive research by Rife with his microscope led to 
development of a cure for cancer that was PROVEN to be 100% effective in 1930s

[TruthTalk] Christian Children




From: "Marlin Halverson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]It 
was a child's expectant prayer to God. Nothing more. Nothing 
less.

Nobody made any big deal about it. We all just smiled and were happy 
forthe family about their blessing.

jt: Of course I can understand everyone being happy for 
the family
but it's important that we understand God's ways 
because right now
the Church is full of divination and nobody seems to 
know or care
Some are closed to anything supernatural and the others 
are wide
open to everything that comes along and looks 
good.

 BTW was that the same Tim Stevenson or are there two of 
them? judyt

What?Why are you asking me about this unfamiliar name out of the 
blue?

jt: Did I misunderstand or was it you who posted on TT 
that the "R"
piece about the Passion Movie by Mel Gibson was written 
by one Tim
Stevenson? This is the man I am referring to - I 
found one who is
Canadian both religious and politician and also 
gay. Just wondering
if it is the same person. 
judyt

[TruthTalk] Pseudo Science

Is this the man you champion here Chris?
Not a good reputation, on this website at least and I
have a problem with anyone
claiming to "cure people" by nutrition alone.
Where there is sickness there is always
a sin issue. Also God is the healer and any
healing by other means is divination.
Medicine does not heal, it is managed care and any
honest physician will tell you so.

judyt

Antoine Bechamp French biologist1816 - 1908

Introduction

Bechamp was one of France's most prominent and active researchers and
biologists. He taught in universities and medical schools, and published
widely on cell biology, disease, botany and related subjects. His would
probably be a household name today if it wasn't for the activities of one Louis Pasteur, who
history has treated very kindly indeed, considering his fake science, his
tendency to steal ideas (mainly from Bechamp), falsify experimental data, and
in general make claims which had no basis in fact.
I'm not running off at the mouth by saying the above. It's all quite well
documented - Bechamp and Pasteur were both members of the French Academy of
Sciences, and the papers they submitted, and their correspondance, both to
each other and to other people, were all recorded. Even their verbal exchanges
survive in the minutes of the meetings.
To cut a long story short, and it is a long story, Pasteur basically
dug up the germ theory of disease and put his name on it. It wasn't a new
idea, although he claimed to have "discovered" germs all the same. The concept
had actually been outlined by other people many years before, but of course,
the whole idea is wrong anyway, so it hardly matters who thought of it first.
In a few years, the germ theory of disease will out there with the flat earth
theory where it belongs.

Yo, LANCE -- Re: [TruthTalk] More recent than 50 years ago?

Title: Romans , Chapter 14






\o/ !HALALU 
Yah! 
\o/ 





Greetings in 
the Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the 
name Jesus was called by His 
mom, 
dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved 
Him] !!


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 04/11/2004 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] More recent than 
50 years ago?

Chris: I have no reason to imagine that your 
demeanour in person is better than that which you exhibit here.You owe 
Izzy an apology."Cure" is a "short-term" word at best'. All that health 
care of any kind can do is prolong life/delay death. This, I believe is a 
reality unless you are privy to knowledge that I'm not. 
Lance

More than there is time to tell ... MUCH 
more ...

Go read and MEDITATE on II Corinthians 10, 
then obey verses 5 and 6 in particular.



Ahava b' 
YahShua












(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)

Baruch 
YHVH,











ChrisBarr

a servant 
of 
YHVH

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: 04/11/2004 12:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] More recent than 
  50 years ago?
  
  Chris: I have no reason to imagine that your 
  demeanour in person is better than that which you exhibit here.You owe 
  Izzy an apology."Cure" is a "short-term" word at best'. All that health 
  care of any kind can do is prolong life/delay death. This, I believe is a 
  reality unless you are privy to knowledge that I'm not. Lance- 
  Original Message - 
  
From: 
Chris Barr 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: April 11, 2004 12:06
Subject: [TruthTalk] More recent than 
50 years ago?



\o/ 
!HALALU Yah! 
\o/ 





Greetings 
in the Matchless Name of YahShua 
[that's the name 
Jesus was called by His 
mom, dad, brothers, sisters, disciples 
and others who loved Him] 
!!


The Saviour rose much, MUCH more than 
50 years ago ... does that make it irrelevant? YOU don't make sense, 
Izzy.

Just because YOU don't understand it 
(over your head?) doesn't mean that it "makes no (scientific) 
sense".

This research did not come to me for 
free. I offered you access to a starting point but perhaps YHVH has blinded you more than I realize. 
How much of your husband's alleged expertise did he receive (or does he 
provide) FOR FREE? What I've offered you is a BARGAIN compared to 
anything medicine offers. I've put up so you can shut up.

Also, I don't know ANY incurable 
diseases. As one of my early mentors and teachers, Dr. John 
Christopher, noted, "There are no incurable diseases but there are incurable 
people." Again, you don't make sense speaking of someone recovering 
from Crohn's and then calling it incurable.

I've NEVER known a case of carpal 
tunnel syndrome, acid reflux, or allergies that was not healed when 
following proper nutritional instruction. More than 20 years ago I had 
a woman with an "incurable" case of genital herpes brought to me and that 
was cleared up, too (still have a very nice thank you note from that 
one). I've accomplished MUCH that medicine says can't be done. 
Most of those accomplishments have been by way of info about 50 years old 
and older. Raised up 8 children without doctor bills. Hosea 4:6 
is still true, today.

Have you or your husband read any 
Antoine Béchamp (greatest scientist in recorded history and perhaps of all 
time)? Widespread application of his extensive research would close 
just about all hospitals and put an end to most medical 
practice.



Ahava b' 
YahShua












(Love in 
The SAVIOUR)

Baruch 
YHVH,











ChrisBarr

a 
servant of 
YHVH


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: 04/09/2004 6:49 PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Science and 
  Scriptural dietary requirements
  
  
  Chris, 
  
  
  Why cant you 
  come up with something a little more recent than 50 years ago? That whole 
  article makes no (scientific) sense. You brought this 
  up before, and I asked for the research, and you never provided it. 
  
  
  I think there are 
  real reasons the Lord prohibited eating scavengers, and The Makers Diet 
  gives good scientific 
  reasons. The author has a doctorate in nutrition, and was personally 
  healed of Crohns disease when he was a teenager ( which you know is 
  incurable) by going on a Biblical diet. But he does not include any of the 
  stuff you quoted below. 
  
  I believe the 
  Levitical dietary and hygiene laws were given to protect

RE: [TruthTalk] More recent than 50 years ago?

Title: Romans , Chapter 14








Lance, Thanks for taking up for me. Yes,
that was my point; the author was cured of an incurable disease. However,
I dont hold it against Chris, as he cant help but behave like
what is inside of him, which is a lot of anger. He is sinning against the Lord,
not me. I just dont want to encourage such non-productive, adversarial interaction.
May the Lord touch Chriss heart with His abundant, tender, heart-melting
LOVE. (HUGS, Chris! LOL!)  Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 11:07
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] More
recent than 50 years ago?







Chris: I have no reason to imagine that your demeanour in
person is better than that which you exhibit here.You owe Izzy an
apology.Cure is a short-term word at best'. All
that health care of any kind can do is prolong life/delay death. This, I
believe is a reality unless you are privy to knowledge that I'm not. Lance-
Original Message - 







From: Chris
Barr 





To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Sent: April 11, 2004
12:06





Subject: [TruthTalk] More
recent than 50 years ago?













\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ 











Greetings in the
Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the name Jesus was called by
His mom,
dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved Him]
!!



















The Saviour rose much, MUCH more than 50 years ago
... does that make it irrelevant? YOU don't make sense, Izzy.











Just because YOU don't understand it (over your
head?) doesn't mean that it makes no (scientific)
sense.











This research did not come to me for free. I
offered you access to a starting point but perhaps YHVH has blinded you more than I
realize. How much of your husband's alleged expertise did he receive (or
does he provide) FOR FREE? What I've offered you is a BARGAIN compared to
anything medicine offers. I've put up so you can shut up.











Also, I don't know ANY incurable diseases. As
one of my early mentors and teachers, Dr. John Christopher, noted, There
are no incurable diseases but there are incurable people. Again,
you don't make sense speaking of someone recovering from Crohn's and then
calling it incurable.











I've NEVER known a case of carpal tunnel syndrome,
acid reflux, or allergies that was not healed when following proper nutritional
instruction. More than 20 years ago I had a woman with an
incurable case of genital herpes brought to me and that was cleared
up, too (still have a very nice thank you note from that one). I've
accomplished MUCH that medicine says can't be done. Most of those
accomplishments have been by way of info about 50 years old and older.
Raised up 8 children without doctor bills. Hosea 4:6 is still true,
today.











Have you or your husband read any Antoine Béchamp
(greatest scientist in recorded history and perhaps of all time)? Widespread
application of his extensive research would close just about all hospitals and
put an end to most medical practice.













Ahava b' YahShua



























(Love in The
SAVIOUR)





Baruch YHVH,





























ChrisBarr





a servant of YHVH



















































- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Sent: 04/09/2004 6:49 PM





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Science and Scriptural dietary requirements









Chris, 



Why cant you come up with something
a little more recent than 50 years ago? That whole article makes no (scientific)
sense. You brought this up before, and I asked for the research, and you never
provided it. 



I think there are real reasons the Lord
prohibited eating scavengers, and The Makers Diet gives good scientific reasons. The author has a
doctorate in nutrition, and was personally healed of Crohns disease when
he was a teenager ( which you know is incurable) by going on a Biblical diet.
But he does not include any of the stuff you quoted below. 



I believe the Levitical dietary and
hygiene laws were given to protect Gods people from the diseases of the
unbelievers around them. I think that is still true today. And I think we
need a lot more research to investigate and validate this today. In the
meantime, its a faith thing. Which isnt all bad. J 



PS Ive also been enjoying reading
related books by Don Colbert, MD, who also advocates a Biblical diet.
Have you read any of those?



Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Barr
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 5:19
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] Science and
Scriptural dietary requirements











\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ 











Greetings in the
Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the name Jesus was called by
His mom,
dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved Him]
!!















Royal Raymond Rife created a microscope (The Universal Microscope) in
the

Re: [TruthTalk] Pseudo Science

\o/ !HALALUYah!
\o/

Greetings in the Matchless
NameofYahShua!!

"Pseudo
Science"?!? Wrong again, JT.

So, what's wrong with the info cited? I couldn't
have put it much better or more succinctly myself.

Where there is sickness there is always
a sin issue.

Wrong yet again, JT. Does Scripture
hold any authority for you?

"And passing by, He saw a man which was blind from
birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, 'Master, who did sin, this
man, or his parents, that he was born blind?' YahShua answered, 'NEITHER hath this man sinned, nor his parents ...' "

Medicine does not heal,

Amein.

it is managed care and any honest physician will tell
you so.

"honest physician"?!? Is that one o'
them thar oxymorons?

I have a problem with anyone
claiming to "cure people" by nutrition alone.

Well, maybe there's still hope for you ... admitting you have a problem is
the first step to solving it.

Ahava b' YahShua

(Love in The
SAVIOUR)

Baruch YHVH,

ChrisBarr
a servant
of YHVH

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: 04/11/2004 12:19 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Pseudo Science

judyt

Antoine Bechamp French biologist1816 - 1908

Introduction

Bechamp was one of France's most prominent and active researchers and
biologists. He taught in universities and medical schools, and published
widely on cell biology, disease, botany and related subjects. His would
probably be a household name today if it wasn't for the activities of one Louis Pasteur, who
history has treated very kindly indeed, considering his fake science, his
tendency to steal ideas (mainly from Bechamp), falsify experimental data,
and in general make claims which had no basis in fact.
I'm not running off at the mouth by saying the above. It's all quite well
documented - Bechamp and Pasteur were both members of the French Academy of
Sciences, and the papers they submitted, and their correspondance, both to
each other and to other people, were all recorded. Even their verbal
exchanges survive in the minutes of the meetings.
To cut a long story short, and it is a long story, Pasteur
basically dug up the germ theory of disease and put his name on it. It
wasn't a new idea, although he claimed to have "discovered" germs all the
same. The concept had actually been outlined by other people many years
before, but of course, the whole idea is wrong anyway, so it hardly matters
who thought of it first. In a few years, the germ theory of disease will out
there with the flat earth theory where it belongs.

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

Terry, do you believe that one who is saved can lose that salvation?

Perry

-
Wow! That seems like such a simple question, but it would take pages to
give you a complete answer. Put simply, I do not believe that you can
lose your
salvation...but,...
I believe that you can throw it away.
The Bible teaches that the same one who saved you is able to keep you,
but it does not say that He will force you to stay against your will. I
offer as an example a pastor, who a few years back, resigned as
minister of his church. The reason he gave was that he no longer
believed what he had been preaching. He was a believer, now he is not.
Had he died prior to making his decision to no longer believe, he would
have gone to Heaven. Now his future appears to be the lake of fire. I
think that this is rare compared to those who at one time claimed or are
claiming to be Christians, only to show their true colors after being
tested over time, but yes, it does happen, and when it does, I believe
that that person is no longer saved. God will not force anyone to spend
eternity with Him.
Hope this answers your question at least to some degree.
Terry

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought
to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

[TruthTalk] Pseudo Science




From: "Chris Barr" [EMAIL PROTECTED]\o/ 
!HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !!

"Pseudo Science"?!? Wrong again, JT.
So, what's wrong with the info cited? I couldn't have put it much 
better or more succinctly myself.

jt: Where there is sickness there is always a sin 
issue. 

Wrong yet again, JT. Does Scripture hold any authority for you?
"And passing by, He saw a man which was blind from birth. 
And His disciples asked Him, saying, 'Master, who did sin, this man, 
or his parents, that he was born blind?' YahShua answered, 'NEITHER 

hath this man sinned, nor his parents ...' "

jt: Yes scripture holds ALL authority for me and I 
mean, ALL scripture not just
parts. The above text is what all ppl cite who 
believe that God wills others to be
sick. Jesus was not saying that sin was not 
involved here, (note he didn't mention
the grandparents or ggrandparents and sin comes down to 
the 3rd and 4th
generation and sometimes even further).Jesus' 
focus was on the task at
hand which was doing the works of God while it was 
still day. Don't you 
believe Deut 28 and Deut 29 Chris?

Medicine does not heal,

Amein.

it is managed care and any honest physician will tell 
you so.

"honest physician"?!? Is that one o' them thar oxymorons?

jt: Be nice Chris. Most ppl in health care professions 
are there to try and help
folk. Have you never come across a good 
physician? I have a problem with 
anyone who claimsto "cure people" by nutrition 
alone. 

Well, maybe there's still hope for you ... admitting you have a problem is 
the first 
step to solving it.

jt: Hey I'm the first one to admit that I don't have 
ALL knowledge... the onus of
proof is on you since you are making some pretty hefty 
claims yourself. Dr. Malkmus
was saying much the same. We went to his seminar and 
tried the carrot juice etc.
but then he took a stroke so there must have been a gap 
in his knowledge. God will
not bless us when we tryito bypass the effects 
of the curse because in doing soHe 
would be violating his own word - 
Malkmusclaimed to have the answer in incurable
disease also. How do you get around that one?

judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children




Oh. Yes. Somebody with that name claimed to be 
the author of the piece. I do not know anything about him. But you 
are welcome to do your own search to find out. I like to know the source 
of an article.

   BTW was that the same Tim Stevenson or are there two of 
  them? judyt
  
  What?Why are you asking me about this unfamiliar name out of the 
  blue?
  
  jt: Did I misunderstand or was it you who posted on 
  TT that the "R"
  piece about the Passion Movie by Mel Gibson was 
  written by one Tim
  Stevenson? This is the man I am referring to - 
  I found one who is
  Canadian both religious and politician and also 
  gay. Just wondering
  if it is the same person. 
  judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children




The answered prayers of a child are cause to suspect 
demons? I think not.

  
  jt: Of course I can understand everyone being happy 
  for the family
  but it's important that we understand God's ways 
  because right now
  the Church is full of divination and nobody seems to 
  know or care
  Some are closed to anything supernatural and the 
  others are wide
  open to everything that comes along and looks 
  good.

[TruthTalk] Christian Children




jt: Divination and deception are one and the 
same. Why just assume
that demons will not work through a child? 
Everyone who comes
into this world has a fallen Adamic nature and this 
includes every
child. Usually it doesn't take long for it to 
express itself either. judyt

From: "Marlin Halverson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The answered prayers of a child are cause to suspect 
demons? I think not.

  
  jt: Of course I can understand everyone being happy 
  for the family
  but it's important that we understand God's ways 
  because right now
  the Church is full of divination and nobody seems to 
  know or care
  Some are closed to anything supernatural and the 
  others are wide
  open to everything that comes along and looks 
  good.

Re: [TruthTalk] Great idea, Smithson!

I'm proud of you, kid. Your post has some good info -- several points I had was not aware of. Thanks

In His Grace
John
In case you are wondering -- this is Chris' remarks concerning the book of James (Yacov).

In a message dated 4/11/2004 9:46:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

King Jimmy of 1611 was not a nice man (to put it very mildly). It was very difficult to get him to agree to the translation work named in his honor. The translators (credited far too highly than they ought) manipulated text at times to suit their purposes and theology (though still better than just about every other translation since then -- I personally prefer the exegeses version which is the only one I know of since KJV to stick to the same manuscripts as KJV that ALSO was translated by a Holy Spirit filled believer [as evidenced by his speaking in other tongues as The Spirit gave utterance] )!.

The book of Yacov was one of the bargaining chips to persway (teehee) his majesty. I've heard it said that this was the one that finally swung him over to back the work.

"Yo, King, one of the writings in Scripture beareth thy name."

Yacov actually anglicizes to Jacob, but, HEY, the lie was for a good cause ...

I didn't know this.

The book of Yacov was the very first of the NT writings to be penned. It used to be listed right up near the front, too ... got shuffled w-a-a-a-y back 'cause it was much too strong on its law and works TRUTH emphasis.

A couple of other bits of new info for me.

Ye ol' drunkard Luther even campaigned for its complete removal.

Now, NOTICE that in the very first words Yacov addressed this writing to the twelve tribes scattered abroad.

Who ever said the tribes of Ysrael were lost, anyway? Yacov knew about them and where they were. IT'S ALL IN THE BOOK, and right in the very opening of this NT book within THE BOOK!

Yes again.

So how's that for a start for ya, John, my comments covered greek discussions, personal observations, contextual comments (history, date, cultural applications, etc. ) as well as whatever comes to mind.

See how things go when you are a nice guy. I am always learning that lesson. Appreciated.

Re: [TruthTalk] Pseudo Science

In a message dated 4/11/2004 10:22:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Not a good reputation, on this website at least and I have a problem with anyone
claiming to "cure people" by nutrition alone. Where there is sickness there is always
a sin issue. 

Where did you get this idea? 

 Also God is the healer and any healing by other means is divination.

Medical doctors included Those who use divination and evil spirits to 
are not and cannot be children of God. God does not offer serpents to those who ask for bread. 



Medicine does not heal, it is managed care and any honest physician will tell you so.
 
judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

In a message dated 4/11/2004 12:37:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


jt: Divination and deception are one and the same. Why just assume
that demons will not work through a child? Everyone who comes
into this world has a fallen Adamic nature and this includes every
child. Usually it doesn't take long for it to express itself either. judyt


This is absolutely over the top, even for judyt. You must believe in childhood conversion inspite of the fact that not one such example is given in NT scripture. 

John

RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

2004-04-11 Thread David Miller

Lance wrote:
 Please tell us with as much clarity and precision as 
 is possible the THIS you're believing.
 ... don't quote scripture.

I'll try to take a few minutes to explain my basic understanding, but I
sure hope that this does not sound like I am trying to be divisive.
Please consider what I am about to say as a rough draft of my
perspective and not something which I walk around thinking about all the
time.  I have been considering your request from the first time you
shared it, and a brother at church today shared a message which
stimulated me to present it to you in the following fashion.

I have observed Christians approach the problem of sin at two different
levels.  

First there are those who upon recognizing the problem of sin, see Jesus
as the answer out of the dreaded dilemma of facing God on judgment day.
They recognize that their own personal sin has separated them from God,
but they also have learned and believe that Jesus paid the price for
their sin so that they will inherit eternal life despite their sin.
Then when they sin, their conscience condemns them, but they see this
condemnation as being a lie from the devil because they reason that the
blood of Jesus has covered their sin.  They might describe this
situation in the following way:  the devil tries to point to what I did
last week and convince me that I'm no good, but I tell him he is a liar
and that Jesus has paid the price and that one day Jesus will return and
change me and then at that time I will be a new creature and never walk
this way again.  In other words, they look at their continued defeat in
the area of morality as something that will always continue until the
second coming of Christ.  They consider any sense of condemnation for
their sin as a lie of Satan in their life.  They do not deal with the
sin, but have a hope that one day Jesus will return and make them new
creatures which will not have the same temptations as they have now.
They look at the solution of having victory over sin as being the
removal of the temptation of sin.

It seems to me that this approach perpetuates what historians have
called the Messiah complex.  It is the idea that when Messiah comes, all
things will be restored.  It continues to look to a future when
restoration is done, and it does not see moral restoration as something
that has already happened with Christ's first coming.

The second way that some Christians approach sin is to see that Christ
came not only to forgive sin, but to break the power of sin in our life.
This approach perceives that the way to holiness has been made right
now, and that we do not need to wait until Christ returns the second
time in order to be made free from sin.  While sin continues to be ever
present in the sense that we will always be tempted while abiding in
these corruptible bodies, we can live a life of victory over those
temptations in every situation.  

The way the second approach to sin is dealt with is very different than
the first approach.  The condemnation and guilt that is associated with
sin is not looked upon as a lie of the devil, but as a direct
consequence of the sin.  If I were to sin today, I fully expect to
experience guilt from sin, even though Jesus has died for me and atoned
for my sin.  I could say a lot more here about the atonement and its
effect on past, present and future sins, but I think it best to skip
that for right now.  My point right now is that I deal with sin in a
most serious way.  The idea of experiencing guilt and a darkening of the
conscience and a dimming of the communion and fellowship with the Father
is a huge motivation for me not to sin again.  I deal with sin by hating
it and forsaking it, not by some knowledge that when Jesus comes again
he will transform me and make a way for me to have victory over sin.  I
see victory over sin as a reality for right now, because of Jesus
Christ.  I can be a New Creature right now.  I don't have to wait for
it.  It is a reality right now.  I am greatly encouraged and blessed to
hear this news.  It is the GOOD NEWS, the BEST NEWS that I have ever
heard in my whole life.  More importantly, this good news has a reality
when it is believed, and it is experienced in a most powerful way within
the conscience of man.  Christ truly has made a way for the conscience
to be perfected.  I can't prove it to anyone except by testifying to its
reality, hoping they will believe it, and then when they experience it,
they will see that what I have testified is really true.

Well, this is a brief and very rough sketch.  I hope it helps.  I would
have been much more comfortable sharing Scripture along with it, which
to me is filled with the truth of what I just shared.  Nevertheless, I
have tried to answer you in the manner that you requested.  I pray it
helps you understand better where I am coming from.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

John wrote:

I remember a family in a fellowship I was with where the little girl
prayed
that God would let her have identical twin brothers. Her mother was not
pregnant, was not planning to be pregnant, and there were not twins in
the
family.

About a year later, the mother gave birth to identical twin boys.

Perry, what would be the odds on this.

John, the article I read stated about 1 in 26 births are twins (when
fertility drugs are not in use), and about 25% of those are identical, which
means about 1 in 104 births are identical twins, yielding a probability of
about 0.96%.

Of course, we would have to figure in the probablility that the mother and
father would decide to get pregnant, and it would be even more complicated
if they didn't!

When I was 11 or 12 we had a family in our town that had 8 children, all
pre-school age, all natural born of the same parents. Five years in a row
they had: twin boys, a girl, twin boy and girl, a boy, and twin girls. Their
name was Lamb. They had a Volkswagon micobuses to cart their family around
in.

Perry

_
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RE: [TruthTalk] More recent than 50 years ago?

2004-04-11 Thread David Miller

Chris wrote:
 Also, I don't know ANY incurable diseases.  As one 
 of my early mentors and teachers, Dr. John Christopher, 
 noted, There are no incurable diseases but there are 
 incurable people.  Again, you don't make sense speaking 
 of someone recovering from Crohn's and then calling it 
 incurable.
 
 I've NEVER known a case of carpal tunnel syndrome, acid 
 reflux, or allergies that was not healed when following 
 proper nutritional instruction.  More than 20 years ago 
 I had a woman with an incurable case of genital herpes 
 brought to me and that was cleared up, too (still have a 
 very nice thank you note from that one).  I've accomplished 
 MUCH that medicine says can't be done.  Most of those 
 accomplishments have been by way of info about 50 years 
 old and older.  Raised up 8 children without doctor bills.  
 Hosea 4:6 is still true, today.

Chris, I think you probably have some helpful information for all of us,
but the packaging of it is somewhat troublesome.  It is like everyone is
the devil who does not agree with you in everything you say.  

Personally, I live similar to you in that I don't run off to medical
doctors.  I think the medical community tends to get too much of a free
pass in our society and alternatives are not given their due
appreciation.  I fully realize that if someone goes to a doctor and
dies, people think nothing of it and it is assumed that all that could
be done for them was done.  However, if somebody does not go to the
doctor but prays continually for healing and dies, people get up in arms
about how they should have went to the doctor.  Truly our society
respects doctors more than prayer when it comes to the healing of the
body.

I personally like the nutrition approach that you take.  I wish you
lived nearby so that I could talk with you more about it.  I believe
that I would probably benefit from your knowledge in this area.  I would
surely visit someone like you before I would visit a medical doctor.  I
like the idea of eating right and preventing problems before they happen
rather than shooting drugs into the body after there is a problem.

Nevertheless, it seems to me like there is something wrong with the
attitude you have about being God's prophet of nutrition and the whole
rest of society is living the abominable lie.  The interesting thing is
that I actually think you might be right about a great many things, but
the attitude you carry makes it very unpalatable.  It also makes me
suspicious about you not being right.  I'm just being open and honest
with you.  The Scriptures speak of Jesus being full of grace and truth.
Read John's words following:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his
glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace
and truth.
(John 1:14 KJV)

I have often dwelt upon this passage.  What about Christ's life
impressed John this way?  It seems to me that Jesus had an attitude that
might be expressed as being full of grace and truth.  I pray that both
you and I might touch this spirit and adopt this attitude in all that we
learn from the Father above.  I realize that men like Balaam were right
about a great many things, but their attitude stunk and they became
known as false prophets because of it, not because they spoke falsehood,
but because they did not pursue a glory that was full of grace and truth
in all that they did.

I like the following passage too:

Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. Let
your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know
how ye ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:5-6 KJV)

Do you recognize any possibility for improvement here, or am I now
considered a reprobate fool for even speaking to you in this manner?

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children



What are the odds that God had something specific to do with this story (originally from Terry, I believe)?



In a message dated 4/11/2004 6:25:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



  I remember a family in a fellowship I was with where the little girl 
prayed
  that God would let her have identical twin brothers. Her mother was not
  pregnant, was not planning to be pregnant, and there were not twins in 
the
  family.
 
  About a year later, the mother gave birth to identical twin boys.
 

Perry, what would be the odds on this.


John, the article I read stated about 1 in 26 births are twins (when 
fertility drugs are not in use), and about 25% of those are identical, which 
means about 1 in 104 births are identical twins, yielding a probability of 
about 0.96%.

Of course, we would have to figure in the probablility that the mother and 
father would decide to get pregnant, and it would be even more complicated 
if they didn't!

When I was 11 or 12 we had a family in our town that had 8 children, all 
pre-school age, all natural born of the same parents. Five years in a row 
they had: twin boys, a girl, twin boy and girl, a boy, and twin girls. Their 
name was "Lamb". They had a Volkswagon micobuses to cart their family around 
in.

Perry

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children





The family members of those who are called, children and 
spouses, are sanctified by the believing family member. They are made 
clean and holy. 

Now, that woman in Texas who murdered her children and 
quoted scripture to justify her actions had a train of thought such as you have 
expressed. Her thinking was indeed inspired by the devil. (See 
Below)

1CO 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is 
sanctified by the wife, and 
the 
unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were 
your 
children unclean; but now are they holy.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:35 
PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Christian 
  Children
  
  jt: Divination and deception are one and the 
  same. Why just assume
  that demons will not work through a child? 
  Everyone who comes
  into this world has a fallen Adamic nature and this 
  includes every
  child. Usually it doesn't take long for it to 
  express itself either. judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  The answered prayers of a child are cause to suspect 
  demons? I think not.
  

jt: Of course I can understand everyone being happy 
for the family
but it's important that we understand God's ways 
because right now
the Church is full of divination and nobody seems 
to know or care
Some are closed to anything supernatural and the 
others are wide
open to everything that comes along and looks 
good.


Mom says God told her to stone sons

  
  


  AP file photo
  Deanna Laney called 911 just after midnight on May 10 
  and told a dispatcher: "I've just killed my boys." 

Associated PressMar. 29, 2004 06:03 PM

TYLER, 
Texas - A mother who bashed her sons' heads with heavy rocks, killing two of 
the boys, was so delusional she thought the Lord told her to do it, her 
attorney said Monday in opening statements at her murder trial."Does 
she follow what she believes to be God's will or does she turn her back on 
her God?" defense attorney F.R. "Buck" Files Jr. asked the jury of eight men 
and four women.Deanna Laney, a 39-year-old stay-at-home mother, has 
pleaded innocent by reason of insanity to charges of murdering 8-year-old 
Joshua and 6-year-old Luke and causing serious injury to Aaron, 14 months 
old at the time. Prosecutors are not seeking the death penalty.The 
deeply religious East Texas woman who home-schooled her children in the tiny 
town of New Chapel Hill, 100 miles southeast of Dallas, wept uncontrollably 
and shook her head, at times burying her face in a tissue, as she listened 
to testimony and prosecutors showed gruesome photographs of her slain 
children.Her husband, who has supported her, sat a few rows behind 
with friends and family.Prosecutors contend Laney knew right from 
wrong when she killed her children last Mother's Day weekend, despite 
opinions from two psychiatric experts for the defense, two for the 
prosecution and one for the judge - all of whom said Laney was legally 
insane."The issue of sanity is tried in the court, not the 
hospitals," District Attorney Matt Bingham told the jury.Prosecutors 
played a tape of a 911 call in which Laney, in her high, dainty voice, 
calmly told a dispatcher after midnight on May 10: "I just killed my boys." 
She also described the color of her house and directed authorities to her 
home."I just did what I had to do," she told the 
dispatcher.Later in the tape, she appeared to doubt whether she 
should have beaten the baby, saying, "I don't think I did right by Aaron." 
She later said, "I don't think I was supposed to kill him."In his 
opening statement, the district attorney told the jury: "The evidence will 
show you that the last thing Josh and Luke Laney ever saw was their mom with 
a rock over their head and the last thing they ever felt was that rock 
crashing over their head."Bingham said Laney attacked the baby 
first, hammering his head with a 41/2-pound rock she had hidden under 
his crib. When he began crying, Laney's husband, Keith, woke up and found 
his wife standing over the baby."Everything's OK," she told 
him.He assumed his wife was changing a diaper and went back to bed. 
Laney then struck the baby again, and after hearing a gurgling from the 
blood in Aaron's throat, she covered him with a pillow and left the room, 
Bingham said."Aaron Laney will never be the same," said Bingham, 
adding that the boy's vision has been impaired and he will never live 
independently.With Aaron's blood on her pajamas, Laney then woke up 
Luke, led him outside the family's rural brick home and asked him to put his 
head on a large rock, the prosecutor said."He does what his Mommy 
tells him," Bingham said.Laney smashed the 6-year-old's

[TruthTalk] Pseudo Science




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
Not a good reputation, on this website at least and I 
have a problem with anyone claiming to "cure people" by nutrition 
alone. Where there is sickness there is always a sin issue. 



Where did you get this idea? 

jt: From scripture, read about blessing and cursing in 
Deuteronomy 28 and 29.
Proverbs 25:6 says "the curse causeless does not light" 
so when you see it there
is always a reason. We are so used to seeing ppl 
dressed in the curse that we
don't think anything about it in our generation. Also 
God is the healer and 
any healing by other means is divination. 

Medical doctors included 

jt: Medical doctors are not healers what they have to 
offer is managed care;
healers in other cultures are demon 
inspired.

Those who use divination and evil spirits to are not and cannot be children 

of God. God does not offer serpents to those who ask for 
bread.

jt: What are you sayingJohn? Anyone can be 
deceived. Under the old
covenant people received healing and Israel were all 
healthy when they left
Egypt. Noones ankles swelled and their shoes did 
not wear out. We have a
better Covenant with better promises and yet in circles 
where they teach that
healing is part of the atonement approximately 5% who 
come fwd in healing
lines receive healing. Why? Healing is the 
children's bread is it not?

judyt




Medicine does not heal, it is managed care and any honest physician will 
tell you so. 

judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children




I was beginning to worry about you. 

I do not subscribe to the idea of children being born 
evil. God said that what He created was "very good." It is our 
influences and actions as we age that corrupts us. Jesus said that we need 
the innocence of a child to receive the Kingdom of God.

LUK 18:17 {Verily I say unto you, Whosoever 
shall not receive the kingdom 
of God as 
a little child shall in no wise enter therein.}

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  The family members of those who are called, children and 
  spouses, 
  are sanctified by the believing family member. 
  They are made clean and holy. 
  
  jt: Sanctified in 1 Cor 7:14 means set 
  apart for God to work upon; the
  ones who are in unbelief still need to 
  make their own committment; God does
  not make ppl clean and holy by osmosis and 
  without their cooperation.
  
  Now, that woman in Texas who murdered her children and 
  quoted scripture 
  to justify her actions had a train of thought such as 
  you have expressed. Her 
  thinking was indeed inspired by the devil. 
  
  (See http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0329ChildrenSlain29-ON.html)
  
  jt: I agree because murder is never God's 
  plan, the woman was listening to the
  father of lies who was a murderer 
  from the beginning. she hadreligious spirits 
  and sadly this is notunusual. 
  The mother in Houston who drowned her five 
  
  children was also a professing 
  believer; she and her husband were 

  fundamentalist Christians.
  
  1CO 7:14 For the unbelieving husband 
  is sanctified by the wife, and 
  the 
  unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were 
  your 
  children unclean; but now are they holy.

Re: [TruthTalk] Pseudo Science







  
  in circles where they teach that
  healing is part of the atonement
approximately 5% who come fwd in healing
  lines receive healing. Why? Healing is
the children's bread is it not?
  
  judyt

I have trouble equating healing with bread. As to the statistics you
supplied, is a ninety-five percent rate of failure is considered
normal by those who claim to be healers? Were the failures the fault
of the healer or the healee? Were five percent really healed, or were
they deluded? Were all of the supposed healings something internal
that could not be seen, or did someone have an ear reattached or a
disfigurment such as caused by leprosy healed where the healing was
immeadiate and obvious to everyone?
If Benny Hinn and others like him can do these things, I know of some
leper colonies where they would be most welcome.
Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children