date:20050607





In a message dated 6/6/2005 10:35:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Perry the Clown wrote to Blaine: PRODUCE THE PHOTOS [of perry the 
  clown] OR RETRACT YOUR MISCHARACTERIZATION OF MY COUNTENANCE!Looks 
  like the mormon boys are tag-teaming me. But, I must confess. I did not 
  think anyone would find my clown picture on the internet (in fact, I 
  forgot it was even posted), but Dave found it and posted it, so, Blaine, I 
  guess I owe you an apology. I am a clown. You can call me a clown any time 
  you wish.In all humility,Perry the 
Clown

Blaine: I would like to find it too--have an 
address?

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





In a message dated 6/6/2005 3:28:38 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Whoa, 
Blaine. Is your "witness of the spirit" that subjective heartburn 
feelings mormons say they get? AKA, the burning in the bazoom? Do you 
have any biblical references that this burning feeling is a valid 
witness? Could it instead possibly be the fires of hell being stoked by 
your resident demon?

Blaine: Sorry, but none of the above rings a true sound for me. 
It sounds like goeldygook, or whatever. At best, it is a rediculous 
statement, which deserves no answer, or a rediculous answer. I choose no 
answer, for the simple reason there is no serious answer to a rediculous 
question.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




IFF the object of my/your 'faith/belief' is other 
than our perception then, how and, in what way(s) does that matter? As I've 
'read' you for some time now, I've seen you as one with the capacity to identify 
'meaning'. Do you know what I mean? I shall not evade 'your' 
question.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dave Hansen 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 07, 2005 00:20
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  DAVEH: I find that interesting, Lance. 
  May I ask how high (that may be a poor way of describing it) is your 
  faith? IOW, on a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is an absolute abiding faith 
  in Jesus, and 5 is a mediocre faith, and 1 is a bare shadow of a 
  faithwhere do you feel you fit on that scale? AndIf you 
  would rather not answer such a personal question, please do not feel compelled 
  to respond to this post. Orif you feel like responding, but don't 
  want to risk the possible mocking or vicious attack of other TTerspost it 
  off-Forum. Perhaps I did not properly consider your 
  original question. I don't consider my faith to be placed in JS, but 
  rather in Jesus. So, if somebody chooses to attack JS for whatever 
  reason, I'm not too bothered. To me it would be like they are 
  attacking Moses, or Abraham or Paul. I hadn't thought about it before, 
  but perhaps that explains why I don't get in a huff when some detractors say 
  bad things about JS on TT.Lance Muir wrote: 
  

Speaking for myself...maybe.A not very good 
movie was made (look! he's at it again..does this guy do nothing but watch 
movies?) entitled 'The Body'; the premise of which was...wait for it...the 
discovery of the bones of Jesus..Well, there you go

This would be comparable to discovering a 
document in the handwriting of JS saying...hey..I was just funnin' 
y'all!!

  - 
  Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dave Hansen 
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: 
  June 06, 2005 10:37
  Subject: 
  Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
  DAVEH: Lance, from a subjective 
  standpoint...Do you believe Jesus is the Christ? If so, could 
  anything be said to move you from that truth as you perceive it? (I 
  also wonder the same about other TTer's feelings about thishoping to 
  hear some responses.)Lance Muir wrote: 
  

If I read you correctly then, absolutely 
nothing could be said ever to move you from your 'subjective truth'. I 
thought as much. 
DAVEH: 
  If I'm following you correctly on this Lance, the answer would be yes 
  to both questions. (But I have not given it any deep thought, as 
  I'm a bit short on time this morning.)Lance Muir wrote: 
  



Blaine says that 'God gives direction to all liberally who ask 
in faith'. I asked you/DH whether or not the 'subjective' bottom 
line was James 1. Are you herein simply offering a resounding 'yes' 
to that query? Would this invariably be your fallback 
  position?-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









How would they know if theyve never
tried? Anyway, proof-texting is a term THEY use to shoot down
scripture quoters. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 9:39
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH





DAVEH: Can you blame them? Seems
like it may be a defensive technique. If they quote a passage, they may
fear being criticized as proof-texting.

ShieldsFamily wrote: 

DaveH, regarding your previous question,
please take note of this technique of the Bible quote haters: Instead of
specifically quoting a particular statement to explain their views they throw
an entire chapter at you and say, It's in there if you just can see
it--find it for yourself! Thus they think they are justified for
using the Bible, but have blurred the issues by not being specific (because it
really isn't in there!). Izzy













The Bible does NOT speak for itself. On this (see my
formula once again) we wholeheartedly agree. Why is it that even among the
'biblicists' who are mature there exists such minimal agreement? This ain't
tennis or ping pong folks, this is the God of the Cosmos! Throwing out bible
verses which simply elucidate YOUR view (not HIS) leaves people confused.
That's why I referenced 2 Tim 3 (KJV whole chapter). 





Because men love darkness so much that
they will not come to the light so that their deeds may be made 



manifest.











On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:49:00 -0700 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







The Bible speaks for itself.

DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are
there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf?
Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street
Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?

ShieldsFamily wrote: 





The Bible speaks for itself.
According to JSmith the Bible is not enough. Who will you serve, the God
of the Bible or the God of the Book of Mormon? Izzy













-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









And the RCC adopted them as canon
to support their heretical doctrines. Izzy 











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:16
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH







JD reaches back into his dusty old shelf of misinformation.





The Apocrypha was part of the corrupt mss 





The apocrypha was not part of the 1611 it was printed as a tool like
the maps we have in our bibles, not interspesed as part of the text as in the
Oldest  best manuscripts





The apocryphal books were not in the Jewish OT either only in the RC
bibles.





The minister of questions chooses to mislead.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:











http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/
You may find this interesting. As far as
adding to the bible -- did you know that the Apocrapha was a
part of nearly all Bibles until the mid to late 1800's. The
so-called Prostestant bibleis a little over 120 yers
old. Christ and or the New Testament writers quoted from most of them, themselves.












Jd










-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:10:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





What were the more
noble Bereans of Acts 17:11 checking Paul's teaching against? Also your
favorite epistle





James is said to
have been written by the Lord's brother only 15yrs following the
ascension. Could we be





missing something
here JD?











On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:03:19 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:











When did the Bible come into existence --
before or after the Revelation? There was no book called the
Bible in first century times. But, certainly, we should
not be adding to what God has said. Jd





From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]





Myth - It is
finished already





And this warning is
not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs.











On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book
of Revelations. 







From: ShieldsFamily 





You are wrong again, Blaine.
Revelations says that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did
you miss that part? Izzy

































__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Probably because its downright
funny!











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:31
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH





Street preachers just quote what it
says. Izzy

DAVEH: Then why do some feel the need to wave underwear?

ShieldsFamily wrote: 

DaveH, There are TT'ers who get criticized
for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't quote what it says, but
replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what they think it should
say--that's why they don't quote and don't like those who quote. Street
preachers just quote what it says. Izzy











The
Bible speaks for itself.

DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are
there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf?
Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street
Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?





-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




It's about as funny as it would be for you and your 
Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as funny as David or 
Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness the desecration of 
the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright funny'!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 07, 2005 07:46
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  
  Probably because its 
  downright funny!
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave HansenSent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:31 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  Street preachers just 
  quote what it says. IzzyDAVEH: Then why do 
  some feel the need to wave underwear?ShieldsFamily wrote: 
  
  DaveH, There are 
  TT'ers who get criticized for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't 
  quote what it says, but replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what they 
  think it should say--that's why they don't quote and don't like those who 
  quote. Street preachers just quote what it says. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  The 
  Bible speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are you 
  sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers wanting to 
  speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for 
  itself, then why do Street Preachers feel the need to proclaim 
  it from the street?
  -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




Two issues arise:

1. Which 'heretical doctrines' arise from 
'them'?
2. IFF some actually do then, are they offset by 
those 'heretical doctrines' arising from the 'accepted canon'. Example:The 
'rapture' doctrine from 1 Thess.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 07, 2005 07:43
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  
  And the RCC adopted 
  them as canon to support their heretical doctrines. Izzy 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:16 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  
  JD reaches back into his dusty old shelf of 
  misinformation.
  
  The Apocrypha was part of the corrupt mss 
  
  
  The apocrypha was not part of the 1611 it was printed 
  as a tool like the maps we have in our bibles, not interspesed as part of the 
  text as in the Oldest  best 
manuscripts
  
  The apocryphal books were not in the Jewish OT either 
  only in the RC bibles.
  
  The minister of questions chooses to 
  mislead.[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/ 
You may find this 
interesting. As far as "adding" to the bible -- did you 
know that the Apocrapha was a part of nearly all Bibles until the mid to 
late 1800's. The so-called "Prostestant bible"is a little 
over 120 yers old. Christ and or the New Testament writers quoted from 
most of them, themselves. 




Jd


-Original 
Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 6 Jun 
2005 16:10:53 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
DaveH


What were the 
more noble Bereans of Acts 17:11 checking Paul's teaching against? 
Also your favorite epistle

James is said 
to have been written by the Lord's brother only 15yrs following the 
ascension. Could we be

missing 
something here JD?



On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:03:19 
-0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  
  
  When did the Bible come into 
  existence -- before or after the Revelation? There 
  was no book called the "Bible" in first century times. But, 
  certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said. 
  Jd
  From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  Myth - It is 
  finished already
  
  And this 
  warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in 
  Proverbs.
  
  
  
  On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 
  -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

In 'Prophecy: The 
Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 


  
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  
  You are wrong again, 
  Blaine. Revelations says that 
  no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that 
  part? Izzy
  
  
  
  __Do 
  You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com

[TruthTalk] Clowning Around




You jest! This is not Perry - it's a clown 
wearing Ruben and the other SP's John 3:16 wig.


From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PRODUCE THE PHOTOS OR RETRACT YOUR MISCHARACTERIZATION OF MY 
COUNTENANCE! DAVEH: Can it be an AH attack if there are 
pictures to prove it, Perry. :-D Charles Perry Locke wrote: 

 Third, it is an ad hominem attack to call me a clown 
  unless you have photos of my huge red nose, frizzy read hair, whiteface, 
  painted on smile, and painted stars over my eyes! not to mention my over-baggy 
  striped pants, red suspenders, and huge floppy shoes! I may be funny looking, 
  but a clown I am not! Besides, I get claustrophobic in small cars EVEN WHEN BY 
  MYSELF, MUCH MORE SO WITH 9-10 OTHER CLOWNS IN THERE WITH ME! PRODUCE 
  THE PHOTOS OR RETRACT YOUR MISCHARACTERIZATION OF MY COUNTENANCE! 
  Perry 
  Blaine wrote:Laugh, clown, laugh!! 
  -- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Perry the Clown.jpg

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

'Proof-texting' can apply to more than the
Scriptures. Michael Moore and John Kerry both employed it vis a vis GWB. How did
you respond when they did it? One may accurately quote someone, often absent
appropriate context, with the intent of critiquing the person they
quote.

- Original Message -

From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: June 07, 2005 07:39
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH

How would they know
if theyve never tried? Anyway, proof-texting is a term THEY use to shoot
down scripture quoters. Izzy

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave HansenSent: Monday, June 06, 2005 9:39
PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH

DAVEH: Can you blame them? Seems
like it may be a defensive technique. If they quote a passage, they may
fear being criticized as proof-texting.ShieldsFamily wrote:

DaveH, regarding your
previous question, please take note of this technique of the Bible quote
haters: Instead of specifically quoting a particular statement to
explain their views they throw an entire chapter at you and say, "It's in
there if you just can see it--find it for yourself!" Thus they think
they are justified for using the Bible, but have blurred the issues by not
being specific (because it really isn't "in there"!).
Izzy

The Bible does NOT speak for
itself. On this (see my formula once again) we wholeheartedly agree. Why is it
that even among the 'biblicists' who are mature there exists such minimal
agreement? This ain't tennis or ping pong folks, this is the God of the
Cosmos! Throwing out bible verses which simply elucidate YOUR view (not HIS)
leaves people confused. That's why I referenced 2 Tim 3 (KJV whole chapter).

Because men love darkness so much
that they will not come to the light so that their deeds may be
made

manifest.

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:49:00 -0700 Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

The Bible
speaks for itself. According to JSmith the Bible is not
enough. Who will you serve, the God of the Bible or the God of the
Book of Mormon? Izzy

-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




1. Purgatory is one that is taken from 1 or 2 
Macc- Izzy being a redeemed rc probably knows more
2. The rapture is one interpretation among others, it 
is not declared canon by the rcc or anyone else.
Let's face it Lance - your Bishop has 
erred.

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:20:05 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Two issues arise:
  
  1. Which 'heretical doctrines' arise from 
  'them'?
  2. IFF some actually do then, are they offset by 
  those 'heretical doctrines' arising from the 'accepted canon'. Example:The 
  'rapture' doctrine from 1 Thess.
  
From: ShieldsFamily 


And the RCC adopted 
them as canon to support their heretical doctrines. Izzy 






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin 
Deegan

JD reaches back into his dusty old shelf of 
misinformation.

The Apocrypha was part of the corrupt mss 


The apocrypha was not part of the 1611 it was 
printed as a tool like the maps we have in our bibles, not interspesed as 
part of the text as in the Oldest  best 
manuscripts

The apocryphal books were not in the Jewish OT 
either only in the RC bibles.

The minister of questions chooses to 
mislead.[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  
  
  http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/ 
  You may find this 
  interesting. As far as "adding" to the bible -- did you 
  know that the Apocrapha was a part of nearly all Bibles until the mid to 
  late 1800's. The so-called "Prostestant bible"is a 
  little over 120 yers old. Christ and or the New Testament writers 
  quoted from most of them, themselves. 
  
  
  
  
  Jd
  
  
  -Original 
  Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 6 Jun 
  2005 16:10:53 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  
  What were 
  the more noble Bereans of Acts 17:11 checking Paul's teaching 
  against? Also your favorite epistle
  
  James is 
  said to have been written by the Lord's brother only 15yrs following the 
  ascension. Could we be
  
  missing 
  something here JD?
  
  
  
  On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:03:19 
  -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  



When did the Bible come 
into existence -- before or after the 
Revelation? There was no book called the "Bible" in first 
century times. But, certainly, we should not be adding to 
what God has said. Jd
From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Myth - It 
is finished already

And this 
warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in 
Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 
13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  In 'Prophecy: The 
  Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 
  
  

From: 
ShieldsFamily 

You are wrong again, 
Blaine. Revelations says that 
no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that 
part? Izzy



__Do 
You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection 
around http://mail.yahoo.com

[TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




After hearing them once who would payany mind to 
what Michael Moore and John Kerry have to say?

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'Proof-texting' can apply to more than the 
Scriptures. Michael Moore and John Kerry both employed it vis a vis GWB. How did 
you respond when they did it? One may accurately quote someone, often absent 
appropriate context, with the intent of critiquing the person they 
quote.


  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  How would they know 
  if theyve never tried? Anyway, proof-texting is a term THEY use to shoot 
  down scripture quoters. Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave 
  Hansen
  DAVEH: Can you blame them? Seems 
  like it may be a defensive technique. If they quote a passage, they may 
  fear being criticized as proof-texting.ShieldsFamily wrote: 
  
  DaveH, regarding your 
  previous question, please take note of this technique of the Bible quote 
  haters: Instead of specifically quoting a particular statement to 
  explain their views they throw an entire chapter at you and say, "It's in 
  there if you just can see it--find it for yourself!" Thus they think 
  they are justified for using the Bible, but have blurred the issues by not 
  being specific (because it really isn't "in there"!). 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  
  The Bible does NOT speak for 
  itself. On this (see my formula once again) we wholeheartedly agree. Why is it 
  that even among the 'biblicists' who are mature there exists such minimal 
  agreement? This ain't tennis or ping pong folks, this is the God of the 
  Cosmos! Throwing out bible verses which simply elucidate YOUR view (not HIS) 
  leaves people confused. That's why I referenced 2 Tim 3 (KJV whole chapter). 
  
  
Because men love darkness so much 
that they will not come to the light so that their deeds may be 
made 

manifest.



On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:49:00 -0700 Dave Hansen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  The Bible speaks 
  for itself.DAVEH: Are you sure 
  about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers wanting to 
  speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The Bible speaks 
  for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel the need to 
  proclaim it from the street?ShieldsFamily wrote: 
  
  
The Bible 
speaks for itself. According to JSmith the Bible is not 
enough. Who will you serve, the God of the Bible or the God of the 
Book of Mormon? Izzy
  
  -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

[TruthTalk] The cat who went to Heaven

















Subject: The cat
who went to Heaven












A cat died and went to Heaven. God met her at Heaven's door and said 
you have been a good cat all of these Years, anything you want, is 
yours for the asking. The cat thought for a moment, and then said
all 
my life I lived on a farm, And slept on hard wooden floors. I would 
like a soft fluffy pillow to lay On. God said,say no
more! And 
instantly the cat had her soft pillow. A few days later, six mice were 
killed in an accident, and all went to heaven together. God met the 
mice at heavens door. God made them the same offer that he had made to 
the cat. The mice replied we have had to run, all of our lives, we 
ran from cats, we ran from dogs, and even from people with brooms. If 
all of us could have a pair of roller skates, it would be grand!
God 
answered, It is done, and the mice had their roller skates.
About a 
week later, god decided to check on the cat, and found her curled up, 
on her soft, fluffy pillow.god asked,is everything okay? Have you 
been happy? The cat replied oh, it's wonderful, I am happier now, 
than I have ever been in life. My pillow is soft and fluffy, and 
those little meals on wheels you've been sending over are delicious!

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor - 
it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the 
prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting 
on the toilet?

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:17:02 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It's about as funny as it would be for you and 
  your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as funny as 
  David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness the 
  desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright 
  funny'!
  
From: ShieldsFamily 
Probably because 
its downright funny!






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave 
HansenStreet preachers 
just quote what it says. IzzyDAVEH: Then 
why do some feel the need to wave underwear?ShieldsFamily wrote: 

DaveH, There are 
TT'ers who get criticized for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't 
quote what it says, but replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what 
they think it should say--that's why they don't quote and don't like those 
who quote. Street preachers just quote what it says. 
Izzy





The 
Bible speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are 
you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers 
wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The 
Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel the 
need to proclaim it from the street?
-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




MY POINT HERE HAD TO DO WITH THE FINE ART OF 
'proof-texting' not with either of these two gentlemen or, with politics, where 
such takes place on a daily basis. It also takes place herein (TT).

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 07, 2005 08:33
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
  
  After hearing them once who would payany mind 
  to what Michael Moore and John Kerry have to say?
  
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  'Proof-texting' can apply to more than the 
  Scriptures. Michael Moore and John Kerry both employed it vis a vis GWB. How 
  did you respond when they did it? One may accurately quote someone, often 
  absent appropriate context, with the intent of critiquing the person 
  they quote.
  
  
From: 
ShieldsFamily 


How would they know 
if theyve never tried? Anyway, proof-texting is a term THEY use to shoot 
down scripture quoters. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave 
Hansen
DAVEH: Can you blame them? Seems 
like it may be a defensive technique. If they quote a passage, they 
may fear being criticized as proof-texting.ShieldsFamily wrote: 

DaveH, regarding 
your previous question, please take note of this technique of the Bible 
quote haters: Instead of specifically quoting a particular statement 
to explain their views they throw an entire chapter at you and say, "It's in 
there if you just can see it--find it for yourself!" Thus they think 
they are justified for using the Bible, but have blurred the issues by not 
being specific (because it really isn't "in there"!). 
Izzy






The Bible does NOT speak for 
itself. On this (see my formula once again) we wholeheartedly agree. Why is 
it that even among the 'biblicists' who are mature there exists such minimal 
agreement? This ain't tennis or ping pong folks, this is the God of the 
Cosmos! Throwing out bible verses which simply elucidate YOUR view (not HIS) 
leaves people confused. That's why I referenced 2 Tim 3 (KJV whole chapter). 


  Because men love darkness so much 
  that they will not come to the light so that their deeds may be 
  made 
  
  manifest.
  
  
  
  On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:49:00 -0700 Dave Hansen 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

The Bible 
speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are you 
sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers 
wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The 
Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel 
the need to proclaim it from the street?ShieldsFamily wrote: 


  The Bible 
  speaks for itself. According to JSmith the Bible is not 
  enough. Who will you serve, the God of the Bible or the God of 
  the Book of Mormon? Izzy

-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




As to #2, Judy, whether the 'rapture doctrine' 
serves best to illustrate my point or not, that heretical doctrines arise in 
greater numbers from the canon itself, THAT WAS MY POINT. It was a 'non-rcc' 
point. Believers do the same thing with the non-apocryphal 
scriptures.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 07, 2005 08:26
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  1. Purgatory is one that is taken from 1 or 2 
  Macc- Izzy being a redeemed rc probably knows more
  2. The rapture is one interpretation among others, it 
  is not declared canon by the rcc or anyone else.
  Let's face it Lance - your Bishop has 
  erred.
  
  On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:20:05 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Two issues arise:

1. Which 'heretical doctrines' arise from 
'them'?
2. IFF some actually do then, are they offset 
by those 'heretical doctrines' arising from the 'accepted canon'. 
Example:The 'rapture' doctrine from 1 Thess.

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  And the RCC 
  adopted them as canon to support their heretical doctrines. Izzy 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin 
  Deegan
  
  JD reaches back into his dusty old shelf of 
  misinformation.
  
  The Apocrypha was part of the corrupt mss 
  
  
  The apocrypha was not part of the 1611 it was 
  printed as a tool like the maps we have in our bibles, not interspesed as 
  part of the text as in the Oldest  best 
  manuscripts
  
  The apocryphal books were not in the Jewish OT 
  either only in the RC bibles.
  
  The minister of questions chooses to 
  mislead.[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/ 
You may find this 
interesting. As far as "adding" to the bible -- did 
you know that the Apocrapha was a part of nearly all Bibles until the 
mid to late 1800's. The so-called "Prostestant 
bible"is a little over 120 yers old. Christ and or the New 
Testament writers quoted from most of them, themselves. 




Jd


-Original 
Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 6 
Jun 2005 16:10:53 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
DaveH


What were 
the more noble Bereans of Acts 17:11 checking Paul's teaching 
against? Also your favorite epistle

James is 
said to have been written by the Lord's brother only 15yrs following the 
ascension. Could we be

missing 
something here JD?



On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 
14:03:19 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  
  
  When did the Bible come 
  into existence -- before or after the 
  Revelation? There was no book called the "Bible" in first 
  century times. But, certainly, we should not be adding to 
  what God has said. Jd
  From: Judy 
  Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  Myth - 
  It is finished already
  
  And this 
  warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in 
  Proverbs.
  
  
  
  On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 
  13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

In 'Prophecy: The 
Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 


  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  You are wrong again, 
  Blaine. Revelations says 
  that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you 
  miss that part? Izzy
  
  
  
  __Do 
  You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection 
  around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Blaine, there were a couple of detractor questions, but here are the ones I 
think you will be able to answer:


1. Is the witness of the spirit to which you referred the burning in the 
bosom that mormons say they get as a witness?


2. Do you  have any biblical references that this burning feeling (a.k.a., 
the burning in the bosom) is a valid  witness of the spirit?


Perry


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:19:43 EDT


In a message dated 6/6/2005 3:28:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:


Whoa,  Blaine. Is your witness of the spirit that subjective heartburn
feelings mormons say they get? AKA, the burning in the bazoom? Do you  have
any biblical references that this burning feeling is a valid  witness? 
Could

it instead possibly be the fires of hell being stoked by  your resident
demon?



Blaine:  Sorry, but none of the above rings a true sound for me.   It 
sounds

like goeldygook, or whatever.  At best, it is a rediculous  statement,
which deserves no answer, or a rediculous answer.  I choose no  answer, for 
the

simple reason there is no serious answer to a rediculous  question.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Clowning Around

Blaine, I have no link. Maybe Dave has it. The photo was attached to Dave's 
original message. If you have that just open the email and clock download 
at the bottom of hte mail page (I presume you receive TT mail via your AOL 
account?).


Perry


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Clowning Around
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:02:00 EDT


In a message dated 6/6/2005 10:35:13 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Perry the Clown wrote to Blaine: PRODUCE THE PHOTOS [of perry the  clown] 
OR

RETRACT YOUR MISCHARACTERIZATION OF MY COUNTENANCE!

Looks  like the mormon boys are tag-teaming me. But, I must confess. I did
not  think anyone would find my clown picture on the internet (in fact, I
forgot it was even posted), but Dave found it and posted it, so, Blaine, I
guess I owe you an apology. I am a clown. You can call me a clown any time
you wish.

In all humility,
Perry the  Clown


Blaine:  I would like to find it too--have an  address?



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Clowning Around

2005-06-07 Thread Dave Hansen





DAVEH:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.robotfactory.com/Characters/images/clown.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.robotfactory.com/Characters/pages/clown.htmh=350w=393sz=23tbnid=-Yu1K99TeLAJ:tbnh=106tbnw=120hl=enstart=92prev=/images%3Fq%3Dclown%26start%3D80%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Blaine, I 
guess I owe you an apology. I am a clown. You can call me a clown any
time 
you wish.

In all humility,
Perry the Clown
  
  Blaine: I would like to find it too--have an address?
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own
type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that
profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the flag,
the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds
humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this
point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking
in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: June 07, 2005 08:30
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH

To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor
- it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the
prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting
on the toilet?

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:17:02 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

It's about as funny as it would be for you and
your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as funny as
David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness the
desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright
funny'!

From: ShieldsFamily
Probably because
its downright funny!

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave
HansenStreet preachers
just quote what it says. IzzyDAVEH: Then
why do some feel the need to wave underwear?ShieldsFamily wrote:

DaveH, There are
TT'ers who get criticized for quoting what the Bible says by those who
don't quote what it says, but replacewhat it says with their own ideas of
what they think it should say--that's why they don't quote and don't like
those who quote. Street preachers just quote what it says.
Izzy

The
Bible speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are
you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers
wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The
Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel
the need to proclaim it from the street?
-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Clowning Around

Oh, Blaine, if you took my response as serious, thinking the picture really 
is of me in a clown suit, then you did not catch the gist of my jest. Dave 
just forwarded some photo he got somehwere, most likely on the web, and 
posted it as though it was me. I was just playing along. But, still feel 
free to call me a clown whenever you like!


Perry


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Clowning Around
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:02:00 EDT


In a message dated 6/6/2005 10:35:13 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Perry the Clown wrote to Blaine: PRODUCE THE PHOTOS [of perry the  clown] 
OR

RETRACT YOUR MISCHARACTERIZATION OF MY COUNTENANCE!

Looks  like the mormon boys are tag-teaming me. But, I must confess. I did
not  think anyone would find my clown picture on the internet (in fact, I
forgot it was even posted), but Dave found it and posted it, so, Blaine, I
guess I owe you an apology. I am a clown. You can call me a clown any time
you wish.

In all humility,
Perry the  Clown


Blaine:  I would like to find it too--have an  address?



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

He already answered these. James 1:5 fg/

- Original Message - 
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: June 07, 2005 09:01
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

 Blaine, there were a couple of detractor questions, but here are the ones
I
 think you will be able to answer:

 1. Is the witness of the spirit to which you referred the burning in
the
 bosom that mormons say they get as a witness?

 2. Do you  have any biblical references that this burning feeling (a.k.a.,
 the burning in the bosom) is a valid  witness of the spirit?

 Perry

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:19:43 EDT

 In a message dated 6/6/2005 3:28:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:

 Whoa,  Blaine. Is your witness of the spirit that subjective heartburn
 feelings mormons say they get? AKA, the burning in the bazoom? Do you
have
 any biblical references that this burning feeling is a valid  witness?
 Could
 it instead possibly be the fires of hell being stoked by  your resident
 demon?

 Blaine:  Sorry, but none of the above rings a true sound for me.   It
 sounds
 like goeldygook, or whatever.  At best, it is a rediculous
statement,
 which deserves no answer, or a rediculous answer.  I choose no  answer,
for
 the
 simple reason there is no serious answer to a rediculous  question.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









I guess it depends upon your perspective.
To me mormon underwear is not a sacred thing (but a silly thing!). Maybe it is
to you. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:17
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH







It's about as funny as it would be
for you and your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as
funny as David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness
the desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright
funny'!







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: June 07, 2005 07:46





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Probably because its downright
funny!











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:31
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH





Street preachers just quote what it
says. Izzy

DAVEH: Then why do some feel the need to wave underwear?

ShieldsFamily wrote: 

DaveH, There are TT'ers who get criticized
for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't quote what it says, but
replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what they think it should say--that's
why they don't quote and don't like those who quote. Street preachers
just quote what it says. Izzy











The
Bible speaks for itself.

DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are
there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If
the The
Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel the
need to proclaim it from the street?



-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Actually I am not a former RCC. My
parents were RCC and my brother. It never took with me. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:27
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH







1. Purgatory is one that is taken from 1
or 2 Macc- Izzy being a redeemed rc probably knows more





2. The rapture is one interpretation
among others, it is not declared canon by the rcc or anyone else.





Let's face it Lance - your Bishop has
erred.











On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:20:05 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







Two issues arise:











1. Which 'heretical doctrines' arise from 'them'?





2. IFF some actually do then, are they offset by those
'heretical doctrines' arising from the 'accepted canon'. Example:The 'rapture'
doctrine from 1 Thess.







From: ShieldsFamily










And the RCC adopted them as
canon to support their heretical doctrines. Izzy 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan





JD reaches back into his dusty old shelf of misinformation.





The Apocrypha was part of the corrupt mss 





The apocrypha was not part of the 1611 it was printed as a tool like
the maps we have in our bibles, not interspesed as part of the text as in the
Oldest  best manuscripts





The apocryphal books were not in the Jewish OT either only in the RC
bibles.





The minister of questions chooses to mislead.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:











http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/
You may find this interesting. As far as
adding to the bible -- did you know that the Apocrapha was a
part of nearly all Bibles until the mid to late 1800's. The
so-called Prostestant bibleis a little over 120 yers
old. Christ and or the New Testament writers quoted from most of them,
themselves. 











Jd










-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:10:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





What were the more
noble Bereans of Acts 17:11 checking Paul's teaching against? Also your
favorite epistle





James is said to
have been written by the Lord's brother only 15yrs following the
ascension. Could we be





missing something
here JD?











On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:03:19 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:











When did the Bible come into existence --
before or after the Revelation? There was no book called the
Bible in first century times. But, certainly, we should
not be adding to what God has said. Jd





From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]





Myth - It is
finished already





And this warning is
not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs.











On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book
of Revelations. 







From: ShieldsFamily 





You are wrong again, Blaine.
Revelations says that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did
you miss that part? Izzy































__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





Kevin Deegan wrote:

  Matthew Mark, Luke, bel  the Dragon?
  only in the Catholic counterfiets!

  

You left out first and second Ralph.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




Before you get carried away here Lance, I seem to 
recall that not so long ago you referred to me on this public internet list as 
'one funny broad' - and as a child of God I find this term offensive; are you 
aware of it'sorigin? - if not I will enlighten you (this is from Plateau 
Press.com):

jennifer: How/where/when/why 
did the word 'broad' get used to describe a woman?Doug: This term started out as 
US criminal slang. The original meaning was 'a prostitute' and when it entered 
mainstream usage it broadened (sorry for the pun, I just couldn't resist) its 
meaning to include so-called women of loose morals and later women of the 
uneducated or lower classes. So as you can see the term has never been what you 
might call respectful. It is first cited in 1914. In these days of 'enlightened 
behaviour' the term is considered apropos and is fast falling into 
disuse.
I understand that you were 'well meaning' and am using 
this to show how easy it is to offend when ppl are prone to take up an 
offense. I don't do that because I live by Psalm 119:165 and so God's 
peace guards my heart and mind. jt


On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:09:42 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own 
  type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that 
  profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the 
  flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds 
  humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this 
  point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking 
  in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

To each his own; everyone has their own type of 
humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the 
prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be 
sitting on the toilet?

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:17:02 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  It's about as funny as it would be for you 
  and your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as 
  funny as David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to 
  witness the desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 
  'downright funny'!
  
From: ShieldsFamily 
Probably 
because its downright funny!






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave 
HansenStreet 
preachers just quote what it says. 
IzzyDAVEH: Then why do some feel the need to 
wave underwear?ShieldsFamily wrote: 
DaveH, There 
are TT'ers who get criticized for quoting what the Bible says by those 
who don't quote what it says, but replacewhat it says with their own 
ideas of what they think it should say--that's why they don't quote and 
don't like those who quote. Street preachers just quote what it 
says. Izzy





The Bible 
speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are you 
sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers 
wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The 
Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel 
the need to proclaim it from the street?
-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Lance your comment is irrelevant to the discussion.
Izzy







From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]





'Proof-texting' can apply to more
than the Scriptures. Michael Moore and John Kerry both employed it vis a vis
GWB. How did you respond when they did it? One may accurately quote someone,
often absent appropriate context, with the intent of critiquing the
person they quote.













From: ShieldsFamily










How would they know if theyve never
tried? Anyway, proof-texting is a term THEY use to shoot down
scripture quoters. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen



DAVEH: Can you blame them? Seems
like it may be a defensive technique. If they quote a passage, they may
fear being criticized as proof-texting.

ShieldsFamily wrote: 

DaveH, regarding your previous question,
please take note of this technique of the Bible quote haters: Instead of
specifically quoting a particular statement to explain their views they throw
an entire chapter at you and say, It's in there if you just can see
it--find it for yourself! Thus they think they are justified for
using the Bible, but have blurred the issues by not being specific (because it
really isn't in there!). Izzy













The Bible does NOT speak for itself. On this (see my
formula once again) we wholeheartedly agree. Why is it that even among the
'biblicists' who are mature there exists such minimal agreement? This ain't
tennis or ping pong folks, this is the God of the Cosmos! Throwing out bible
verses which simply elucidate YOUR view (not HIS) leaves people confused.
That's why I referenced 2 Tim 3 (KJV whole chapter). 





Because men love darkness so much that
they will not come to the light so that their deeds may be made 



manifest.











On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:49:00 -0700 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







The Bible speaks for itself.

DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are
there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf?
Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street
Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?

ShieldsFamily wrote: 





The Bible speaks for itself.
According to JSmith the Bible is not enough. Who will you serve, the God
of the Bible or the God of the Book of Mormon? Izzy











-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Lance, FYI: It isnt sacred if God
doesnt say it is sacred. Somebody thinking it is doesnt make it
so. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:10
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH







Jt says 'to each his own, everyone
has their own type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may
assume that profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or
desecrate the flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that
which one finds humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and
non-Mormon on this point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the
worshippers on walking in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: June 07, 2005 08:30





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH











To each his own; everyone has their own
type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.





Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah
to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt.
 Carmel by telling them
their god just might be sitting on the toilet?











On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:17:02 -0400
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







It's about as funny as it would be
for you and your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as
funny as David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness
the desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright
funny'!







From: ShieldsFamily 





Probably because its downright
funny!













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Street preachers just quote what it says. Izzy

DAVEH: Then why do some feel the need to wave underwear?

ShieldsFamily wrote: 



DaveH, There are TT'ers who get criticized
for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't quote what it says, but
replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what they think it should
say--that's why they don't quote and don't like those who quote. Street
preachers just quote what it says. Izzy











The
Bible speaks for itself.

DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are
there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf?
Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street
Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?



-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




Oh sorry about that Iz, good for you. BTW has 
anyone seen Christine - missing her. jt

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:22:05 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  Actually I am not a 
  former RCC. My parents were RCC and my brother. It never took with 
  me. Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of Judy 
  Taylor
  
  1. Purgatory is one that is taken from 
  1 or 2 Macc- Izzy being a redeemed rc probably knows 
  more
  
  2. The rapture is one interpretation 
  among others, it is not declared canon by the rcc or anyone 
  else.
  
  Let's face it Lance - your Bishop has 
  erred.
  
  
  
  On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:20:05 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

Two issues 
arise:



1. Which 'heretical doctrines' 
arise from 'them'?

2. IFF some actually do then, 
are they offset by those 'heretical doctrines' arising from the 'accepted 
canon'. Example:The 'rapture' doctrine from 1 
Thess.

  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  And the RCC 
  adopted them as canon to support their heretical doctrines. Izzy 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin 
  Deegan
  
  JD reaches back into his dusty old shelf of 
  misinformation.
  
  The Apocrypha was part of the corrupt mss 
  
  
  The apocrypha was not part of the 1611 it was 
  printed as a tool like the maps we have in our bibles, not interspesed as 
  part of the text as in the Oldest  best 
  manuscripts
  
  The apocryphal books were not in the Jewish OT 
  either only in the RC bibles.
  
  The minister of questions chooses to 
  mislead.[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/ 
You may find this 
interesting. As far as "adding" to the bible -- did 
you know that the Apocrapha was a part of nearly all Bibles until the 
mid to late 1800's. The so-called "Prostestant 
bible"is a little over 120 yers old. Christ and or the New 
Testament writers quoted from most of them, themselves. 




Jd


-Original 
Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 6 
Jun 2005 16:10:53 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
DaveH


What were 
the more noble Bereans of Acts 17:11 checking Paul's teaching 
against? Also your favorite epistle

James is 
said to have been written by the Lord's brother only 15yrs following the 
ascension. Could we be

missing 
something here JD?



On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 
14:03:19 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  
  
  When did the Bible come 
  into existence -- before or after the 
  Revelation? There was no book called the "Bible" in first 
  century times. But, certainly, we should not be adding to 
  what God has said. Jd
  From: Judy 
  Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  Myth - 
  It is finished already
  
  And this 
  warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in 
  Proverbs.
  
  
  
  On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 
  13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

In 'Prophecy: The 
Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 


  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  You are wrong again, 
  Blaine. Revelations says 
  that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you 
  miss that part? Izzy
  
  
  
  __Do 
  You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection 
  around http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Judy, I believe that Lance is the one who
coined the term in 1914, so youll just have to forgive him. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:25
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH







Before you get carried away here Lance,
I seem to recall that not so long ago you referred to me on this public
internet list as 'one funny broad' - and as a child of God I find this term
offensive; are you aware of it'sorigin? - if not I will enlighten you
(this is from Plateau Press.com):





jennifer: How/where/when/why did the word 'broad' get used to
describe a woman?

Doug: This term started out as US criminal slang. The original
meaning was 'a prostitute' and when it entered mainstream usage it broadened
(sorry for the pun, I just couldn't resist) its meaning to include so-called
women of loose morals and later women of the uneducated or lower classes. So as
you can see the term has never been what you might call respectful. It is first
cited in 1914. In these days of 'enlightened behaviour' the term is considered
apropos and is fast falling into disuse.





I understand that you were 'well
meaning' and am using this to show how easy it is to offend when ppl are prone
to take up an offense. I don't do that because I live by Psalm 119:165
and so God's peace guards my heart and mind. jt 













On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:09:42 -0400
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Jt says 'to each his own, everyone
has their own type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may
assume that profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or
desecrate the flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that
which one finds humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and
non-Mormon on this point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the
worshippers on walking in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.







From: Judy Taylor 











To each his own; everyone has their own
type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.





Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah
to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt.
 Carmel by telling them
their god just might be sitting on the toilet?











On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:17:02 -0400
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







It's about as funny as it would be
for you and your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as
funny as David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness
the desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright
funny'!







From: ShieldsFamily 





Probably because its downright
funny!













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Street preachers just quote what it says. Izzy

DAVEH: Then why do some feel the need to wave underwear?

ShieldsFamily wrote: 



DaveH, There are TT'ers who get criticized
for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't quote what it says, but
replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what they think it should
say--that's why they don't quote and don't like those who quote. Street
preachers just quote what it says. Izzy











The
Bible speaks for itself.

DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are
there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf?
Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street
Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?



-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] The World Takes Care of It's Own

Amen.  Let's send Canada! Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:29 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The World Takes Care of It's Own

People don't starve because there is not enough food in the world. People 
starve because despotic rulers cut off supply chains to starve the people so

they will not rise up and overthrow the despots. No amount of money will fix

those types of problems...but getting rid of the depots will.

Perry

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] The World Takes Care of It's Own
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:42:05 -0400

Bob Geldof Launches Live 8 Concerts
On July 13th 1985 two unique simultaneous concerts called Live Aid were
held in London and Philadelphia with a goal of easing the suffering of
millions of victims of famine in Africa. Live Aid raised over $100
million but 20 years later poverty, disease, and famine are still major
problems for the people of Africa. 20 years ago the public contributed
resources to end suffering and now Bob Geldof is putting together new
concerts to pressure wealthy governments to come to the aid of
impoverished people.
- Top 40 / Pop Guide Bill Lamb

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









So what does Blaine have to say for
himself? 











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:17
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH







Myth - It is finished
already





And this warning is
not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs.











On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to
FINISH the book of Revelations. 







From: ShieldsFamily 





You are wrong again, Blaine. Revelations says that no one is
to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that part? Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]








Blaine: Aren't you converted to Mormonism by now Izzy?
:) I'm shocked
you don't know the answer. It is BOTH. Since they
are the same individuals! I do, however
understand why you might think otherwise. Anyone subjected to the
watered-down doctrinesof traditional Christianity would tend, I would
think, to uphold these false niceties, even in the face of strong evidence to
the contrary. Satan has a way of lulling the unwary into a sense of false
security, engendered by his presentation of a few superficial truths with his
fundamentalfalsehoods. This pairing is as old as the Garden of
Eden, when Satan told Eve she would not surely die, AND that she would gain
wisdom, the latter being the truth, and the former a lie.











n a message dated 6/6/2005 9:23:07 AM
Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





The Bible speaks for itself.
According to JSmith the Bible is not enough. Who will you serve, the God
of the Bible or the God of the Book of Mormon? Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Rev
2218I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to
them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which
are written in this book.

JD, tell me what does the word
Bible mean? And what is the last book in the Bible? Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH











When did the Bible come into existence --
before or after the Revelation? There was no book called the
Bible in first century times. But, certainly, we should
not be adding to what God has said. 











Jd




-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





Myth - It is
finished already





And this warning is
not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs.











On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book
of Revelations. 







From: ShieldsFamily 





You are wrong again, Blaine.
Revelations says that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did
you miss that part? Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Sure makes me think its all about
JSmith and the BoM. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:27
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH









I see you have not read Charlotte's Web. It is about a spider
that spun webs with English words incorporated, which in turn were assumed by
Humans to refer to the pig who lived in the sty beneath the webs.
These descriptive adjectives were then assumed to be the pig's character
traits. No proof, no nothing, just the words, appearing in print form,
were enough to convince the masses that the pig was super-normal. He
became celebrated, because Charlotte
the spider said he was such--IN PRINT. Just
aspoof on the gullibility of human-kind. 





Blaine





In a message dated 6/6/2005 11:02:16 AM
Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Are you so gullible that YOU believe
everything that is in print? Like the 
Book of Mormon, Pearl
of Great Price, and the DC.

E. B. White, the author of Charlotte's
Web, was born in 1899. How could the 
story be a basis for what E. B. Stennhouse wrote in 1875???

Perry

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


In addition, "proof-texting" is the misuse of scripture. All ae suspectible to this failure. We look for verses with similar wording and assume those passages have the same meaning and context.-Original Message-From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:24:11 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





'Proof-texting' can apply to more than the Scriptures. Michael Moore and John Kerry both employed it vis a vis GWB. How did you respond when they did it? One may accurately quote someone, often absent appropriate context, with the intent of critiquing the person they quote.

- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 07, 2005 07:39
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


How would they know if they?ve never tried? Anyway, ?proof-texting? is a term THEY use to shoot down scripture quoters. Izzy

FW: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









Then why watch them? J











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:18
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH







In the movies sometimes they don't care
about what God said.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: June 06, 2005 13:05





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









After God said not to add to it? I think
NOT. Izzy









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:01
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH



In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to
FINISH the book of Revelations. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: June 06, 2005 12:38





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









You are wrong again, Blaine. Revelations says that no one is
to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that part? Izzy









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:06
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH





I





Blaine: Aren't you converted to Mormonism by now Izzy?
:) I'm shocked
you don't know the answer. It is BOTH. Since they are
the same individuals! I do, however understand
why you might think otherwise. Anyone subjected to the watered-down
doctrinesof traditional Christianity would tend, I would think, to uphold
these false niceties, even in the face of strong evidence to the
contrary. Satan has a way of lulling the unwary into a sense of false
security, engendered by his presentation of a few superficial truths with his
fundamentalfalsehoods. This pairing is as old as the Garden of
Eden, when Satan told Eve she would not surely die, AND that she would gain
wisdom, the latter being the truth, and the former a lie.











n a message dated 6/6/2005 9:23:07 AM
Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





The Bible speaks for itself.
According to JSmith the Bible is not enough. Who will you serve, the God
of the Bible or the God of the Book of Mormon? Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


The decision to commit to actions and wording that is objectionable to others is living proof that those who do suchthings no longer care about those whom they insult. 

JD-Original Message-From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:09:42 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 07, 2005 08:30
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting on the toilet?

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



You persist in missing Lance's point. 

There are similar listings on the internet to this found below. No one is arguing that apocrapha is scripture. Continue with that line of debate and you are wasting time. 

JD






Matthew 4:4
Wisdom 16:26

Matthew 4:15
1 Maccabees 5:15

Matthew 5:18
Baruch 4:1

Matthew 5:28
Sirach 9:8

Matthew 5:2ss
Sirach 25:7-12

Matthew 5:4
Sirach 48:24

Matthew 6:7
Sirach 7:14

Matthew 6:9
Sirach 23:1, 4

Matthew 6:10
1 Maccabees 3:60

Matthew 6:12
Sirach 28:2

Matthew 6:13
Sirach 33:1

Matthew 6:20
Sirach 29:10s

Matthew 6:23
Sirach 14:10

Matthew 6:33
Wisdom 7:11

Matthew 7:12
Tobit 4:15

Matthew 7:12
Sirach 31:15

Matthew 7:16
Sirach 27:6

Matthew 8:11
Baruch 4:37

Matthew 8:21
Tobit 4:3

Matthew 9:36
Judith 11:19

Matthew 9:38
1 Maccabees 12:17

Matthew 10:16
Sirach 13:17

Matthew 11:14
Sirach 48:10

Matthew 11:22
Judith 16:17

Matthew 11:25
Tobit 7:17

Matthew 11:25
Sirach 51:1

Matthew 11:28
Sirach 24:19

Matthew 11:28
Sirach 51:23

Matthew 11:29
Sirach 6:24s

Matthew 11:29
Sirach 6:28s

Matthew 11:29
Sirach 51:26s

Matthew 12:4
2 Maccabees 10:3

Matthew 12:5
Sirach 40:15

Matthew 13:44
Sirach 20:30s

Matthew 16:18
Wisdom 16:13

Matthew 16:22
1 Maccabees 2:21

Matthew 16:27
Sirach 35:22

Matthew 17:11
Sirach 48:10

Matthew 18:10
Tobit 12:15

Matthew 20:2
Tobit 5:15

Matthew 22:13
Wisdom 17:2

Matthew 23:38
Tobit 14:4

Matthew 24:15
1 Maccabees 1:54

Matthew 24:15
2 Maccabees 8:17

Matthew 24:16
1 Maccabees 2:28

Matthew 25:35
Tobit 4:17

Matthew 25:36
Sirach 7:32-35

Matthew 26:38
Sirach 37:2

Matthew 27:24
Daniel 13:46

Matthew 27:43
Wisdom 2:13

Matthew 27:43
Wisdom 2:18-20



-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:26:34 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





1. Purgatory is one that is taken from 1 or 2 Macc- Izzy being a redeemed rc probably knows more
2. The rapture is one interpretation among others, it is not declared canon by the rcc or anyone else.
Let's face it Lance - your Bishop has erred.

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:20:05 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Two issues arise:

1. Which 'heretical doctrines' arise from 'them'?
2. IFF some actually do then, are they offset by those 'heretical doctrines' arising from the 'accepted canon'. Example:The 'rapture' doctrine from 1 Thess.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

How did you respond when they did it?

Better question. How did you respond when Jesus did it?
"IT IS WRITTEN" JesusLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








'Proof-texting' can apply to more than the Scriptures. Michael Moore and John Kerry both employed it vis a vis GWB. How did you respond when they did it? One may accurately quote someone, often absent appropriate context, with the intent of critiquing the person they quote.

- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 07, 2005 07:39
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


How would they know if theyve never tried? Anyway, proof-texting is a term THEY use to shoot down scripture quoters. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave HansenSent: Monday, June 06, 2005 9:39 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

DAVEH: Can you blame them? Seems like it may be a defensive technique. If they quote a passage, they may fear being criticized as proof-texting.ShieldsFamily wrote: 
DaveH, regarding your previous question, please take note of this technique of the Bible quote haters: Instead of specifically quoting a particular statement to explain their views they throw an entire chapter at you and say, "It's in there if you just can see it--find it for yourself!" Thus they think they are justified for using the Bible, but have blurred the issues by not being specific (because it really isn't "in there"!). Izzy






The Bible does NOT speak for itself. On this (see my formula once again) we wholeheartedly agree. Why is it that even among the 'biblicists' who are mature there exists such minimal agreement? This ain't tennis or ping pong folks, this is the God of the Cosmos! Throwing out bible verses which simply elucidate YOUR view (not HIS) leaves people confused. That's why I referenced 2 Tim 3 (KJV whole chapter).. 

Because men love darkness so much that they will not come to the light so that their deeds may be made 

manifest.



On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:49:00 -0700 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


The Bible speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?ShieldsFamily wrote: 

The Bible speaks for itself. According to JSmith the Bible is not enough. Who will you serve, the God of the Bible or the God of the Book of Mormon? Izzy

-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


The more important question IMO is "what did this word "bible" mean to the Apostle John in 98 AD. 

JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:35:51 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH






Rev 2218I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
JD, tell me what does the word ?Bible? mean? And what is the last book in the Bible? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




When did the Bible come into existence -- before or after the Revelation? There was no book called the "Bible" in first century times. But, certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said. 



Jd
-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 


From: ShieldsFamily 

You are wrong again, Blaine. Revelations says that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that part? Izzy

[TruthTalk] Apocrypha




Thanks JD, I appreciate the effort. Like a good Berean - I will check 
them all out and compare. jt

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



You persist in missing Lance's point. 

There are similar listings on the internet to this found below. No 
one is arguing that apocrapha is scripture. Continue with that line of 
debate and you are wasting time. 

JD



  
  
  
Matthew 4:4
Wisdom 
  16:26
  
Matthew 
4:15
1 Maccabees 
  5:15
  
Matthew 
5:18
Baruch 
  4:1
  
Matthew 
5:28
Sirach 
  9:8
  
Matthew 
5:2ss
Sirach 
25:7-12
  
Matthew 5:4
Sirach 
  48:24
  
Matthew 6:7
Sirach 
  7:14
  
Matthew 6:9
Sirach 23:1, 
4
  
Matthew 
6:10
1 Maccabees 
  3:60
  
Matthew 
6:12
Sirach 
  28:2
  
Matthew 
6:13
Sirach 
  33:1
  
Matthew 
6:20
Sirach 
29:10s
  
Matthew 
6:23
Sirach 
  14:10
  
Matthew 
6:33
Wisdom 
  7:11
  
Matthew 
7:12
Tobit 
  4:15
  
Matthew 
7:12
Sirach 
  31:15
  
Matthew 
7:16
Sirach 
  27:6
  
Matthew 
8:11
Baruch 
  4:37
  
Matthew 
8:21
Tobit 
4:3
  
Matthew 
9:36
Judith 
  11:19
  
Matthew 
9:38
1 Maccabees 
  12:17
  
Matthew 
10:16
Sirach 
  13:17
  
Matthew 
11:14
Sirach 
  48:10
  
Matthew 
11:22
Judith 
  16:17
  
Matthew 
11:25
Tobit 
  7:17
  
Matthew 
11:25
Sirach 
  51:1
  
Matthew 
11:28
Sirach 
  24:19
  
Matthew 
11:28
Sirach 
  51:23
  
Matthew 
11:29
Sirach 
  6:24s
  
Matthew 
11:29
Sirach 
  6:28s
  
Matthew 
11:29
Sirach 
51:26s
  
Matthew 
12:4
2 Maccabees 
  10:3
  
Matthew 
12:5
Sirach 
  40:15
  
Matthew 
13:44
Sirach 
20:30s
  
Matthew 
16:18
Wisdom 
  16:13
  
Matthew 
16:22
1 Maccabees 
  2:21
  
Matthew 
16:27
Sirach 
  35:22
  
Matthew 
17:11
Sirach 
  48:10
  
Matthew 
18:10
Tobit 
  12:15
  
Matthew 
20:2
Tobit 
  5:15
  
Matthew 
22:13
Wisdom 
  17:2
  
Matthew 
23:38
Tobit 
  14:4
  
Matthew 
24:15
1 Maccabees 
  1:54
  
Matthew 
24:15
2 Maccabees 
  8:17
  
Matthew 
24:16
1 Maccabees 
  2:28
  
Matthew 
25:35
Tobit 
  4:17
  
Matthew 
25:36
Sirach 
7:32-35
  
Matthew 
26:38
Sirach 
  37:2
  
Matthew 
27:24
Daniel 
  13:46
  
Matthew 
27:43
Wisdom 
  2:13
  
Matthew 
27:43
Wisdom 
2:18-20

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




Does thisapplyto yourself JD, or is it just 
for "others"? Do you think DM is humored every time he is
referred to as legalistic and a false prophet among 
other things and what about repaying Kevin evil for
what you perceive to be evil?

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:50:48 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  The decision to commit to actions and wording that is objectionable to 
  others is living proof that those who do suchthings no longer care about 
  those whom they insult. 
  
  JDFrom: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  
  

  Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own 
  type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that 
  profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the 
  flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds 
  humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this 
  point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking 
  in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

To each his own; everyone 
has their own type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the 
prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be 
sitting on the toilet?

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

It is done for show  tell not humor.
Some LDS are not initiated into the "meatier" doctrines of Mormonism and are shocked to learn of the protective undergarments. This creates a problem for the LDS, since they have to explain to their own members why they have kept it secret from them for possibly years.

wearing magic underwear will not protect the wearer from harm anymore than a saint on the dashboard or scapular around the neck.
They are a work of the flesh.
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting on the toilet?

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:17:02 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It's about as funny as it would be for you and your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as funny as David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness the desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright funny'!

From: ShieldsFamily 
Probably because its downright funny!






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave HansenStreet preachers just quote what it says. IzzyDAVEH: Then why do some feel the need to wave underwear?ShieldsFamily wrote: 
DaveH, There are TT'ers who get criticized for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't quote what it says, but replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what they think it should say--that's why they don't quote and don't like those who quote. Street preachers just quote what it says. Izzy





The Bible speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?
-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

		Discover Yahoo! 
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Lance, the gist of his reply was I choose no  answer, for the simple reason 
there is no serious answer to a rediculous  question.


So, I eliminated the trick questions and posed the two serious ones in hope 
that he would reconsider. They are not gobbledygook, or rediculous.  Perhaps 
he does not want to share his witness because in this forum it will not 
sound like a valid witness. Nobody wants to hear that their subjective 
feelings are not a valid witness, especially when there are no bible verses 
to support that. That is fine, too. He is a big boy. He can reconsider and 
choose again not to answer.


Perry


From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:15:28 -0400

He already answered these. James 1:5 fg/


- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: June 07, 2005 09:01
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


 Blaine, there were a couple of detractor questions, but here are the 
ones

I
 think you will be able to answer:

 1. Is the witness of the spirit to which you referred the burning in
the
 bosom that mormons say they get as a witness?

 2. Do you  have any biblical references that this burning feeling 
(a.k.a.,

 the burning in the bosom) is a valid  witness of the spirit?

 Perry

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:19:43 EDT
 
 
 In a message dated 6/6/2005 3:28:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
 
 
 Whoa,  Blaine. Is your witness of the spirit that subjective 
heartburn

 feelings mormons say they get? AKA, the burning in the bazoom? Do you
have
 any biblical references that this burning feeling is a valid  witness?
 Could
 it instead possibly be the fires of hell being stoked by  your resident
 demon?
 
 
 
 Blaine:  Sorry, but none of the above rings a true sound for me.   It
 sounds
 like goeldygook, or whatever.  At best, it is a rediculous
statement,
 which deserves no answer, or a rediculous answer.  I choose no  answer,
for
 the
 simple reason there is no serious answer to a rediculous  question.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Did someone burn Mormon underwear?

When did holding something in your hand become a desecration.

You guys are either loosing hold of reality, or as usual blowing it out of proportion to gain better traction. Another case of False witness  misrepresentation. Go d will hold you accountable no matter how lightly you percieve the consequences of twisting  misrepresenting and tale bearing falsehoods. No one "desecrated" "burned" "broke up weddings" called women "whores", or any such thing. 

LDS: "WAH WAH they are desecrating our undies!"
LDS: "How would you like it if they burnt your prayer shawl?"
WAH WAH WAH

There shall be WAILING  GNASHING of TEETH
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 07, 2005 08:30
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting on the toilet?

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:17:02 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It's about as funny as it would be for you and your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as funny as David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness the desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright funny'!

From: ShieldsFamily 
Probably because its downright funny!






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave HansenStreet preachers just quote what it says. IzzyDAVEH: Then why do some feel the need to wave underwear?ShieldsFamily wrote: 
DaveH, There are TT'ers who get criticized for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't quote what it says, but replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what they think it should say--that's why they don't quote and don't like those who quote. Street preachers just quote what it says. Izzy





The Bible speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?
-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

		Discover Yahoo! 
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Izzy, I have to vote for this book in Rev 22:18,19 applying specifically 
to the Revelation. I used to try to apply it to the whole Bible (in a debate 
with a mormon many years ago) , and I DO believe that the general principle 
applies to the whole Bible, but in particular believe that these verses are 
referring specifically to the Book of Revelation.


Perry


From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:35:51 -0500

 Rev 2218I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this
book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are
written in this book;19and if anyone takes away from the words of the
book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life 
and

from the holy city, which are written in this book.

JD, tell me what does the word Bible mean? And what is the last book in
the Bible? Izzy



  _

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



When did the Bible come into existence  --  before or after the Revelation?
There was no book called the Bible in first century times.   But,
certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said.



Jd


-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and 
in

Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
javascript:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');  writes:

In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations.

From: ShieldsFamily 
javascript:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');



You are wrong again, Blaine.  Revelations says that no one is to add or
subtract from the Bible.  Did you miss that part? Izzy






--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha




Am getting discouraged with this JD, it is a waste of 
my time - I can see no relation between scripture and the other. Also why are 
they all in Matthew? This is what I have found thus far - Can you find a 
common ground between them?


Matthew 4:4  Wisdom 16:26
1. He answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, 
but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God (spoken to the 
devil)
2. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is not 
the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains those 
who trust in you.
Matthew 4:15  1 Maccabees 5:15
1. The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim by the way of the sea, 
beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; (ppl in darkness seeing a great 
light)
2. They said that the people of Ptolemais and Tyre and Sidon, and all Galilee 
of the Gentiles had gathered together against them to annihilate us.
Matthew 5:18  Baruch 4:1
1. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one 
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
2. She is the book of the commandments of God, the law that endures forever. 
All who hold her fast will live, and those who forsake her will die.
Matthew 5:28  Sirach 9:8
1. But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her 
hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
2. Turn away your eyes from a shapely woman, and do not gaze at beauty 
belonging to another; many have been seduced by a womans beauty, and by it 
passion is kindled like a fire.
Matthew 5:2ss  Sirach 25:7-12
1. And he opened his mouth and taught them saying: (Sermon on the Mount).
2. I can think of nine whom I would call blessed and a tenth my tongue 
proclaims: A man who can rejoice in his children; a man who lives to see the 
downfall of his foes. Happy the man who lives with a sensible wife, and the one 
who does not plow with ox and ass together. Happy is the one who does not sin 
with the tongue, and the one who has not served an inferior. Happy is the one 
who finds a friend, and the one who speaks to attentive listeners. How great is 
the one who finds wisdom! But none is superior to the one who fears the Lord. 
Fear of the Lord surpasses everything; to whom can we compare the one who has 
it?

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:21:06 -0400 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Thanks JD, I appreciate the effort. Like a good Berean - I will 
  check them all out and compare. jt
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  
  You persist in missing Lance's point. 
  
  There are similar listings on the internet to this found below. No 
  one is arguing that apocrapha is scripture. Continue with that line of 
  debate and you are wasting time. 
  
  JD
  
  
  



  Matthew 
  4:4
  Wisdom 
  16:26

  Matthew 
  4:15
  1 Maccabees 
5:15

  Matthew 
  5:18
  Baruch 
4:1

  Matthew 
  5:28
  Sirach 
9:8

  Matthew 
  5:2ss
  Sirach 
25:7-12

  Matthew 
  5:4
  Sirach 
  48:24

  Matthew 
  6:7
  Sirach 
  7:14

  Matthew 
  6:9
  Sirach 23:1, 
4

  Matthew 
  6:10
  1 Maccabees 
3:60

  Matthew 
  6:12
  Sirach 
  28:2

  Matthew 
  6:13
  Sirach 
  33:1

  Matthew 
  6:20
  Sirach 
  29:10s

  Matthew 
  6:23
  Sirach 
  14:10

  Matthew 
  6:33
  Wisdom 
  7:11

  Matthew 
  7:12
  Tobit 
4:15

  Matthew 
  7:12
  Sirach 
  31:15

  Matthew 
  7:16
  Sirach 
  27:6

  Matthew 
  8:11
  Baruch 
  4:37

  Matthew 
  8:21
  Tobit 
4:3

  Matthew 
  9:36
  Judith 
  11:19

  Matthew 
  9:38
  1 Maccabees 
12:17

  Matthew 
  10:16
  Sirach 
  13:17

  Matthew 
  11:14
  Sirach 
  48:10

  Matthew 
  11:22
  Judith 
  16:17

  Matthew 
  11:25
  Tobit 
7:17

  Matthew 
  11:25
  Sirach 
  51:1

  Matthew 
  11:28
  Sirach 
  24:19

  Matthew 
  11:28
  Sirach 
  51:23

  Matthew 
  11:29
  Sirach 
  6:24s

  Matthew 
  11:29
  Sirach 
  6:28s

  Matthew 
  11:29
  Sirach 
  51:26s

  Matthew 
  12:4
  2 Maccabees 
10:3

  Matthew 
  12:5
  Sirach 
  40:15

  Matthew 
  13:44
  Sirach 
  20:30s

  Matthew 
  16:18
  Wisdom 
  16:13

  Matthew 
  16:22
  1 Maccabees 
2:21

  Matthew 
  16:27
  Sirach 
  35:22

  Matthew 
  17:11
  Sirach 
  48:10

  Matthew

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




I guess the prophets in the Bible didn't care about the people 
they "insulted" either. No wonder John the Baptist was beheaded. (By 
people like you?) Izzy


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:51 
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Perry vs DaveH



The decision to commit to actions and wording that is objectionable to 
others is living proof that those who do suchthings no longer care about 
those whom they insult. 

JD-Original Message-From: Lance Muir 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 
Jun 2005 09:09:42 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own 
type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that 
profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the flag, 
the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds 
humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this 
point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking 
in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 07, 2005 08:30
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor 
  - it's a cultural thing Lance.
  Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the 
  prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting 
  on the toilet?

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




JD, join the "Why We Can't Believe What We Read in the Bible 
Club". Izzy


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:48 
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Perry vs DaveH



In addition, "proof-texting" is the misuse of scripture. 
All ae suspectible to this failure. We look for verses with similar 
wording and assume those passages have the same meaning and 
context.-Original Message-From: Lance Muir 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 
Jun 2005 08:24:11 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





'Proof-texting' can apply to more than the 
Scriptures. Michael Moore and John Kerry both employed it vis a vis GWB. How did 
you respond when they did it? One may accurately quote someone, often absent 
appropriate context, with the intent of critiquing the person they 
quote.

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 07, 2005 07:39
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  
  How would they know 
  if they?ve never tried? Anyway, ?proof-texting? is a term THEY use to shoot 
  down scripture quoters. 
Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Don't you think it is significant that the warning is written in the last
chapter of The Book? Iz 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Izzy, I have to vote for this book in Rev 22:18,19 applying specifically
to the Revelation. I used to try to apply it to the whole Bible (in a debate
with a mormon many years ago) , and I DO believe that the general principle
applies to the whole Bible, but in particular believe that these verses are
referring specifically to the Book of Revelation.

Perry

From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:35:51 -0500

  Rev 2218I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of 
this
book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are
written in this book;19and if anyone takes away from the words of the
book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of 
life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

JD, tell me what does the word Bible mean? And what is the last book 
in the Bible? Izzy

   _

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

When did the Bible come into existence  --  before or after the Revelation?
There was no book called the Bible in first century times.   But,
certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said.

Jd

-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy 
and in Proverbs.

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
javascript:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');  writes:

In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations.

From: ShieldsFamily
javascript:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');

You are wrong again, Blaine.  Revelations says that no one is to add or 
subtract from the Bible.  Did you miss that part? Izzy

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha




I'm sure there are verses from the BoM that are just as "related" 
to those who think so. It all looks like the work of the Master 
Counterfiter to me. Izzy


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:54 AMTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Apocrypha

Am getting discouraged with this JD, it is a waste of 
my time - I can see no relation between scripture and the other. Also why are 
they all in Matthew? This is what I have found thus far - Can you find a 
common ground between them?


Matthew 4:4  Wisdom 16:26
1. He answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, 
but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God (spoken to the 
devil)
2. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is not 
the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains those 
who trust in you.
Matthew 4:15  1 Maccabees 5:15
1. The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim by the way of the sea, 
beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; (ppl in darkness seeing a great 
light)
2. They said that the people of Ptolemais and Tyre and Sidon, and all Galilee 
of the Gentiles had gathered together against them to annihilate us.
Matthew 5:18  Baruch 4:1
1. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one 
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
2. She is the book of the commandments of God, the law that endures forever. 
All who hold her fast will live, and those who forsake her will die.
Matthew 5:28  Sirach 9:8
1. But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her 
hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
2. Turn away your eyes from a shapely woman, and do not gaze at beauty 
belonging to another; many have been seduced by a womans beauty, and by it 
passion is kindled like a fire.
Matthew 5:2ss  Sirach 25:7-12
1. And he opened his mouth and taught them saying: (Sermon on the Mount).
2. I can think of nine whom I would call blessed and a tenth my tongue 
proclaims: A man who can rejoice in his children; a man who lives to see the 
downfall of his foes. Happy the man who lives with a sensible wife, and the one 
who does not plow with ox and ass together. Happy is the one who does not sin 
with the tongue, and the one who has not served an inferior. Happy is the one 
who finds a friend, and the one who speaks to attentive listeners. How great is 
the one who finds wisdom! But none is superior to the one who fears the Lord. 
Fear of the Lord surpasses everything; to whom can we compare the one who has 
it?

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:21:06 -0400 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Thanks JD, I appreciate the effort. Like a good Berean - I will 
  check them all out and compare. jt
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  
  You persist in missing Lance's point. 
  
  There are similar listings on the internet to this found below. No 
  one is arguing that apocrapha is scripture. Continue with that line of 
  debate and you are wasting time. 
  
  JD
  
  
  



  Matthew 
  4:4
  Wisdom 
  16:26

  Matthew 
  4:15
  1 Maccabees 
5:15

  Matthew 
  5:18
  Baruch 
4:1

  Matthew 
  5:28
  Sirach 
9:8

  Matthew 
  5:2ss
  Sirach 
25:7-12

  Matthew 
  5:4
  Sirach 
  48:24

  Matthew 
  6:7
  Sirach 
  7:14

  Matthew 
  6:9
  Sirach 23:1, 
4

  Matthew 
  6:10
  1 Maccabees 
3:60

  Matthew 
  6:12
  Sirach 
  28:2

  Matthew 
  6:13
  Sirach 
  33:1

  Matthew 
  6:20
  Sirach 
  29:10s

  Matthew 
  6:23
  Sirach 
  14:10

  Matthew 
  6:33
  Wisdom 
  7:11

  Matthew 
  7:12
  Tobit 
4:15

  Matthew 
  7:12
  Sirach 
  31:15

  Matthew 
  7:16
  Sirach 
  27:6

  Matthew 
  8:11
  Baruch 
  4:37

  Matthew 
  8:21
  Tobit 
4:3

  Matthew 
  9:36
  Judith 
  11:19

  Matthew 
  9:38
  1 Maccabees 
12:17

  Matthew 
  10:16
  Sirach 
  13:17

  Matthew 
  11:14
  Sirach 
  48:10

  Matthew 
  11:22
  Judith 
  16:17

  Matthew 
  11:25
  Tobit 
7:17

  Matthew 
  11:25
  Sirach 
  51:1

  Matthew 
  11:28
  Sirach 
  24:19

  Matthew 
  11:28
  Sirach 
  51:23

  Matthew 
  11:29
  Sirach 
  6:24s

  Matthew 
  11:29
  Sirach 
  6:28s

  Matthew 
  11:29
  Sirach 
  51:26s

  Matthew 
  12:4
  2 Maccabees 
10:3

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

So then, CPL, 'his' subjective witness is unacceptable while yours is? He
did not quote Ja 1:5fg but it was his obvious reference.

- Original Message - 
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: June 07, 2005 10:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

 Lance, the gist of his reply was I choose no  answer, for the simple
reason
 there is no serious answer to a rediculous  question.

 So, I eliminated the trick questions and posed the two serious ones in
hope
 that he would reconsider. They are not gobbledygook, or rediculous.
Perhaps
 he does not want to share his witness because in this forum it will not
 sound like a valid witness. Nobody wants to hear that their subjective
 feelings are not a valid witness, especially when there are no bible
verses
 to support that. That is fine, too. He is a big boy. He can reconsider and
 choose again not to answer.

 Perry

 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:15:28 -0400

 He already answered these. James 1:5 fg/

 - Original Message -
 From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: June 07, 2005 09:01
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

   Blaine, there were a couple of detractor questions, but here are the
 ones
 I
   think you will be able to answer:

   1. Is the witness of the spirit to which you referred the burning
in
 the
   bosom that mormons say they get as a witness?

   2. Do you  have any biblical references that this burning feeling
 (a.k.a.,
   the burning in the bosom) is a valid  witness of the spirit?

   Perry

   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
   Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:19:43 EDT

   In a message dated 6/6/2005 3:28:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

   Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:

   Whoa,  Blaine. Is your witness of the spirit that subjective
 heartburn
   feelings mormons say they get? AKA, the burning in the bazoom? Do you
 have
   any biblical references that this burning feeling is a valid
witness?
   Could
   it instead possibly be the fires of hell being stoked by  your
resident
   demon?

   Blaine:  Sorry, but none of the above rings a true sound for me.   It
   sounds
   like goeldygook, or whatever.  At best, it is a rediculous
 statement,
   which deserves no answer, or a rediculous answer.  I choose no
answer,
 for
   the
   simple reason there is no serious answer to a rediculous  question.

   --
   Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

No. It could have easily been in the front of the book. Take the copyright 
notices on movies and in our books today...always up front...but that does 
not alter their effectiveness...in fact, it may even increase it since most 
people don't read books cover to cover these days, or watch movies until the 
last frame of film has passed through the projector.


Also, it does not matter what John thought Bible or book meant in the first 
century, as someone suggested...he was just writing down what he was being 
shown and told to write.


Perry


From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:16:43 -0500

Don't you think it is significant that the warning is written in the last
chapter of The Book? Iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Izzy, I have to vote for this book in Rev 22:18,19 applying specifically
to the Revelation. I used to try to apply it to the whole Bible (in a 
debate

with a mormon many years ago) , and I DO believe that the general principle
applies to the whole Bible, but in particular believe that these verses are
referring specifically to the Book of Revelation.

Perry

From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:35:51 -0500

  Rev 2218I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of
this
book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are
written in this book;19and if anyone takes away from the words of the
book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of
life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

JD, tell me what does the word Bible mean? And what is the last book
in the Bible? Izzy



   _

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



When did the Bible come into existence  --  before or after the 
Revelation?

There was no book called the Bible in first century times.   But,
certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said.



Jd


-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy
and in Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
javascript:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');  writes:

In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations.

From: ShieldsFamily
javascript:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');


You are wrong again, Blaine.  Revelations says that no one is to add or
subtract from the Bible.  Did you miss that part? Izzy





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know

how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

God knew. 

-Original Message-
Also, it does not matter what John thought Bible or book meant in the first 
century, as someone suggested...he was just writing down what he was being 
shown and told to write.

Perry


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

The unacceptability of my or Blaine's subjective witness is not the issue. 
Whether or not it is Biblical is the issue.


Obvious references are made obvious by quoting scripture. No obvious quote, 
no obvious reference.


Perry


From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:22:02 -0400

So then, CPL, 'his' subjective witness is unacceptable while yours is? He
did not quote Ja 1:5fg but it was his obvious reference.


- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: June 07, 2005 10:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


 Lance, the gist of his reply was I choose no  answer, for the simple
reason
 there is no serious answer to a rediculous  question.

 So, I eliminated the trick questions and posed the two serious ones in
hope
 that he would reconsider. They are not gobbledygook, or rediculous.
Perhaps
 he does not want to share his witness because in this forum it will not
 sound like a valid witness. Nobody wants to hear that their subjective
 feelings are not a valid witness, especially when there are no bible
verses
 to support that. That is fine, too. He is a big boy. He can reconsider 
and

 choose again not to answer.

 Perry

 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:15:28 -0400
 
 He already answered these. James 1:5 fg/
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: June 07, 2005 09:01
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
 
 
   Blaine, there were a couple of detractor questions, but here are the
 ones
 I
   think you will be able to answer:
  
   1. Is the witness of the spirit to which you referred the burning
in
 the
   bosom that mormons say they get as a witness?
  
   2. Do you  have any biblical references that this burning feeling
 (a.k.a.,
   the burning in the bosom) is a valid  witness of the spirit?
  
   Perry
  
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
   Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:19:43 EDT
   
   
   In a message dated 6/6/2005 3:28:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   
   Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
   
   
   Whoa,  Blaine. Is your witness of the spirit that subjective
 heartburn
   feelings mormons say they get? AKA, the burning in the bazoom? Do 
you

 have
   any biblical references that this burning feeling is a valid
witness?
   Could
   it instead possibly be the fires of hell being stoked by  your
resident
   demon?
   
   
   
   Blaine:  Sorry, but none of the above rings a true sound for me.   
It

   sounds
   like goeldygook, or whatever.  At best, it is a rediculous
 statement,
   which deserves no answer, or a rediculous answer.  I choose no
answer,
 for
   the
   simple reason there is no serious answer to a rediculous  question.
  
  
   --
   Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org
  
   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have 
a

 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
 
 
 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org
 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have 
a

 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

I agree, and I think John recorded that effectively.

From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:52:05 -0500

God knew.

-Original Message-
Also, it does not matter what John thought Bible or book meant in the first
century, as someone suggested...he was just writing down what he was being
shown and told to write.

Perry

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] JS is a False Priest according to Blaine





Blaine: At least I don't run every person off the forum who disagrees 
with me --talk about weird--or, maybe a better word is self-admiring. Now, 
I will be the one to get in trouble for saying that, despite your constant 
trash-mouthing of my religion and my character, for which nothing will be done 
or even said.



In a message dated 6/6/2005 11:45:31 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  No implying Here Blaine I declare JS as a False Prophet, teacher and 
  Pervert. 
  The facts bear that out.
  You can not be serious! 
  You have a double standard, what else should we expect from the most 
  persecuted people in the world?
  You called CPL a clown see your own post belowYou have a wierd sense 
  of standards
  Blaine,

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




So, you weren't waving it around? You were just walking around the streets holding someone's underwear in your hands? 

Jd
-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:35:55 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



Did someone burn Mormon underwear?

When did holding something in your hand become a desecration.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


Do you believe that what I wrote is a crrect teaching or not? -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:17:23 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



Does thisapplyto yourself JD, or is it just for "others"? Do you think DM is humored every time he is
referred to as legalistic and a false prophet among other things and what about repaying Kevin evil for
what you perceive to be evil?

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:50:48 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



The decision to commit to actions and wording that is objectionable to others is living proof that those who do suchthings no longer care about those whom they insult. 

JDFrom: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]





Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.

From: Judy Taylor 
To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting on the toilet?

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha


If you cannot see a similarity between the two references below, stop reading. I see a very clear similarity. If you don't agree, so what? 

JD-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:53:47 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha



Am getting discouraged with this JD, it is a waste of my time - I can see no relation between scripture and the other. Also why are they all in Matthew? This is what I have found thus far - Can you find a common ground between them?


Matthew 4:4  Wisdom 16:26
1. He answered and said, ?it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God? (spoken to the devil)


2. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is not the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains those who trust in you.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


Was it the last chapter in the Bible when it waswritten? 

Jd-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:16:43 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


Don't you think it is significant that the warning is written in the last
chapter of The Book? Iz 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Izzy, I have to vote for "this book" in Rev 22:18,19 applying specifically
to the Revelation. I used to try to apply it to the whole Bible (in a debate
with a mormon many years ago) , and I DO believe that the general principle
applies to the whole Bible, but in particular believe that these verses are
referring specifically to the Book of Revelation.

Perry

From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:35:51 -0500

  Rev 2218I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of 
this
book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are
written in this book;19and if anyone takes away from the words of the
book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of 
life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

JD, tell me what does the word "Bible" mean? And what is the last book 
in the Bible? Izzy



   _

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



When did the Bible come into existence  --  before or after the Revelation?
There was no book called the "Bible" in first century times.   But,
certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said.



Jd


-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy 
and in Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
_javascript_:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');  writes:

In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations.

From: ShieldsFamily
_javascript_:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');


You are wrong again, Blaine.  Revelations says that no one is to add or 
subtract from the Bible.  Did you miss that part? Izzy





--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend 
who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha




There is no similarity JD and this is the seedbed of 
heresy and hereticks; as someone has already noted, one 
may just as well try to correlate scripture and the book of Mormon as this. Why not 
allow the scriptures to speak 
to your heart rather than fill it with error and mixture? No worries about me 
stopping - my time is too valuable. jt

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:12:41 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  If you cannot see a similarity between 
  the two references below, stop reading. I see a very clear 
  similarity. If you don't agree, so what? 
  JDFrom: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  
  Am getting discouraged with this JD, it is a waste of 
  my time - I can see no relation between scripture and the other. Also why are 
  they all in Matthew? This is what I have found thus far - Can you find a 
  common ground between them?
  
  
  Matthew 4:4  Wisdom 16:26
  1. He answered and said, ?it is written, Man shall not live by bread 
  alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God? (spoken to 
  the devil)
  
  
  2. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is 
  not the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains 
  those who trust in you.

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha








Why have yoou written this?




 Why not allow the scriptures to speak 
to your heart rather than fill it with error and mixture?

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha




Because it is a lesson I had to learn the hard way and 
I fear some on TT have not learned it yet. jt

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:41:38 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  Why have yoou written 
  this?
  
  
  
   Why not allow the scriptures to speak 
  
  to your heart rather than fill it with error and 
  mixture?

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha



There is need to worry about me in this regard, but thank you anyway. A personal relationship with the Lord has an intrinsic way of solvingsuch a problem But, enough said. 

Jd




Because it is a lesson I had to learn the hard way and I fear some on TT have not learned it yet. jt

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:41:38 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



Why have yoou written this?



 Why not allow the scriptures to speak 
to your heart rather than fill it with error and mixture?

[TruthTalk] WorldNetDaily: How and why we're going to win

FYI - I'd be interested in David/Christine Miller
Terry's take on this article since they are involved in
the home-church movement. jt

This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
follows. To view this item online, visithttp://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44629

Tuesday, June 7, 2005

How and why we're going to win

Posted: June 7, 20051:00 a.m. Eastern
By Jim Rutz

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com Far below the rusty radar of the portside
press, the tide of history has turned against tyranny and in favor of the common
man. The whole world, in fact, is changing hands for the first and last
time. Tyrants and generals have swept across the Earth for centuries,
crushing and raising empires. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and
the dynasties of the East have all been driven by pharaohs, emperors and kings.

For one brief blip of time, a nexus of freedom did blaze in the Near
East, as early Christianity poured power into the hearts and hands of ordinary
believers. But this fledgling participatory church, with plain folks meeting
from house to house and urging each member to freely teach or sing or pray in
turn, was soon subverted by its own leaders.
Facing widespread heresy and persecution, the young church decided to
copy the enemy (Rome). Reaching back into their past, they resurrected the
Levitical priesthood and regrouped as a top-down hierarchy, starting about A.D.
90. Then, under Constantine in the 320s, Christianity totally collapsed into an
institution, putting bishops over bishops over bishopsand squashing the
common man. The fire went out, and Western Civilization collapsed into the Dark
Ages in A.D. 476.
A millennium later, the reformers restored basic Christian
doctrine, and the Great Awakening stirred hope in individual hearts. But all the
oppressive structures remained intact. The West then floundered desperately
through a series of mindsets: Enlightenment philosophy, French-style revolution,
Lockean limited government, Fabian socialism, and now a market-managing
political bureaucracy from Roosevelt and Keynes (which has just suffered a
whopping setback). Last week's rejection of a United States of Europe by
independent-minded voters in Holland and France dovetails with the
Busheffort to bring freedom and independence to the Middle East. And both
events are subsets of a wider phenomenon: the transfer of power from the top of
the pyramid to the bottom.

Democracy is not the Kingdom of God, but in a free atmosphere, people more
often choose to follow Him. This change is broader than government. In
industry, the guys on the shop floor now just punch a computer to get the
information that once had to be parsed out by middle management (R.I.P.). In the
media, 8 million bloggers and websites like WorldNetDaily are starting to
supplant the giant TV networks and newspapers. In education, homeschools have
brokenthe National Education Association monopoly. In entertainment, G-rated
films have mushroomed.
But perhaps the most foundational changes are happening in the church,
the traditional guardian of society's key values. If you've always been a
Sunday-go-to-meetin' kind of Christian, you now have an exciting alternative.
Without changing one iota of your beliefs, you can upgrade yourself from a pew
potato to a world-changing pioneer. This has to be the biggest megashift in the
history of mankind. Not only has it transformed the lives of over 100 million
people worldwide during the past 50 years, it has also been attested by millions
of miracles. This is not a rumor, it's a spiritual tsunami.

In "Megashift," I've documented many such miracles (including true
resurrections in 52 countries recently) with names and addresses. Joseph Farah,
in his brilliant May 25 column and his book, "Taking America Back," states that
turn-back-the-clock conservatives cannot win the battle for America because
their strategy is purely defensive. He says we need a radically positive
vision. Bingo. And here are the two main ways that vision is going to win.
One, we're going to overwhelm the secular liberals by sheer
numbers (see my first column), thus enabling us to pass a sweeping series of
truly progressive reforms based on a radical vision like Mr. Farah's. And two,
we're going to cooperate with God in re-creating the church, turning the people
from a professionally led audience into proactive disciples who get their
directions straight from the Spirit. (We can't change diehard spectators,
but we can change many believers and bring in a billion more in the next 11 to
12 years.)
Most of that bottom-to-top change is going to come through what you
call house churches informal, but life-changing
open fellowships in homes, offices, schools, Starbucks, wherever. They are free
from programs, sermons, buildings and the heretically deadly split between
clergy and laity. Why are people leaving their warm,

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Lance are you equating the Bible  the Koran to a pair of skivvies?






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:17 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
It's about as funny as it would be for you and your Jet-flying son to be present at a flag burning. It's about as funny as David or Kevin, while preaching at a 'sodomite' convention, to witness the desecration of the Holy Scriptures! Iz, these would be just 'downright funny'!


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 07, 2005 07:46

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


Probably because its downright funny!





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave HansenSent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:31 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Street preachers just quote what it says. IzzyDAVEH: Then why do some feel the need to wave underwear?ShieldsFamily wrote: 
DaveH, There are TT'ers who get criticized for quoting what the Bible says by those who don't quote what it says, but replacewhat it says with their own ideas of what they think it should say--that's why they don't quote and don't like those who quote. Street preachers just quote what it says. Izzy





The Bible speaks for itself.DAVEH: Are you sure about that, Izzy??? If so, why are there so many TTers wanting to speak in its behalf? Hmm...If the The Bible speaks for itself, then why do Street Preachers feel the need to proclaim it from the street?
-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
		Discover Yahoo! 
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

There was no book called the "Bible" in first century times.
You are as crooked as the JW arguing against a Triune god,saying the word trinity is not in the bible







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




When did the Bible come into existence -- before or after the Revelation? There was no book called the "Bible" in first century times. But, certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said. 



Jd
-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 


From: ShieldsFamily 

You are wrong again, Blaine. Revelations says that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that part? Izzy

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Re: FW: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Birds of a feather flock together!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









Then why watch them? J





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


In the movies sometimes they don't care about what God said.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 06, 2005 13:05

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


After God said not to add to it? I think NOT. Izzy




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:01 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 06, 2005 12:38

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


You are wrong again, Blaine. Revelations says that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that part? Izzy




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


I

Blaine: Aren't you converted to Mormonism by now Izzy? :) I'm shocked you don't know the answer. It is BOTH. Since they are the same individuals! I do, however understand why you might think otherwise. Anyone subjected to the watered-down doctrinesof traditional Christianity would tend, I would think, to uphold these false niceties, even in the face of strong evidence to the contrary. Satan has a way of lulling the unwary into a sense of false security,
 engendered by his presentation of a few superficial truths with his fundamentalfalsehoods. This pairing is as old as the Garden of Eden, when Satan told Eve she would not surely die, AND that she would gain wisdom, the latter being the truth, and the former a lie.



n a message dated 6/6/2005 9:23:07 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The Bible speaks for itself. According to JSmith the Bible is not enough. Who will you serve, the God of the Bible or the God of the Book of Mormon? Izzy


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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  So, you weren't waving it around? You were just walking around
the streets holding someone's underwear in your hands? 
  
  Jd
  
  
  

Are you saying that somewhere in Salt Lake City there is a Mormon with
no skivvies?

That is common down here where it is still ninety degrees at bed time,
but SLC is a little cool for that. Might freeze your equipment.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

We look for verses with similar wording and assume those passages have the same meaning and context.
Speak for yourself. I KNOW what the Bible says. So does Lance that is why he will not answer me with one of those "numerous" alternate understandings of John 3:36
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



In addition, "proof-texting" is the misuse of scripture. All ae suspectible to this failure. We look for verses with similar wording and assume those passages have the same meaning and context.-Original Message-From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:24:11 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





'Proof-texting' can apply to more than the Scriptures. Michael Moore and John Kerry both employed it vis a vis GWB. How did you respond when they did it? One may accurately quote someone, often absent appropriate context, with the intent of critiquing the person they quote.

- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 07, 2005 07:39
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


How would they know if they?ve never tried? Anyway, ?proof-texting? is a term THEY use to shoot down scripture quoters. Izzy__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Personal EXPERIENCE?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



The decision to commit to actions and wording that is objectionable to others is living proof that those who do suchthings no longer care about those whom they insult. 

JD-Original Message-From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:09:42 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 07, 2005 08:30
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting on the toilet?
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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




If you believe the Bible, you might consider the passages In the 
photo--part of the Brigham Young Monument in Salt Lake City
Blaine 



  
  

  


  
The Hosanna Shout, 
given at the dedication of each new temple--also, 2 passages 
from Isaiah, believed to have been fulfilled when the Salt 
Lake temple was completed

Re: [TruthTalk] WorldNetDaily: How and why we're going to win





I am not certain that I have a take, Judy.On one hand, I believe that
we are in the last days, and if so, things will get worse, not better.
On the other hand, if what I believe is incorrect, I believe that God
will bless the house church and it will multiply. More and more people
are studying the Bible, and as they do, they see that the institutional
church is so far from what the Lord has planned that it is a miracle
that He still is able to use it. Like any giant business, it has a
million paid employees and a few at the top are getting rich telling
those at the bottom how to do it. If God is there, it is only because
God is everywhere, not because He is thrilled to sit among the pew
warmers and hear an expert speak.
I am convinced that the mega churches of today are a temporary thing.
You will either see a return to simple gatherings of small groups of
Christians or you will see a great falling away, or both. I guess that
is my take.
Terry




Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  FYI - I'd be interested in David/Christine
Miller  Terry's take on this article since they are involved in
  the home-church movement. jt
  
  This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article
which follows. 
To view this item online, visit
  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44629
  
  
  Tuesday, June 7, 2005
  
  How and why we're going to win
  
  Posted: June 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
  By Jim Rutz
  
   2005 WorldNetDaily.com 
Far below the rusty radar of the portside press, the tide of history
has turned against tyranny and in favor of the common man. The whole
world, in fact, is changing hands for the first and last time. Tyrants
and generals have swept across the Earth for centuries, crushing and
raising empires. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the
dynasties of the East have all been driven by pharaohs, emperors and
kings. 
  
For one brief blip of time, a nexus of freedom did blaze in the Near
East, as early Christianity poured power into the hearts and hands of
ordinary believers. But this fledgling participatory church, with plain
folks meeting from house to house and urging each member to freely
teach or sing or pray in turn, was soon subverted by its own leaders. 
  
Facing widespread heresy and persecution, the young church decided to
copy the enemy (Rome). Reaching back into their past, they resurrected
the Levitical priesthood and regrouped as a top-down hierarchy,
starting about A.D. 90. Then, under Constantine in the 320s,
Christianity totally collapsed into an institution, putting bishops
over bishops over bishops
and squashing the common man. The fire went out, and Western
Civilization collapsed into the Dark Ages in A.D. 476.
  
A millennium later, the reformers restored basic Christian doctrine,
and the Great Awakening stirred hope in individual hearts. But all the
oppressive structures remained intact. The West then floundered
desperately through a series of mindsets: Enlightenment philosophy,
French-style revolution, Lockean limited government, Fabian socialism,
and now a market-managing political bureaucracy from Roosevelt and
Keynes (which has just suffered a whopping setback). Last week's
rejection of a United States of Europe by independent-minded voters in
Holland and France dovetails with the Bush
effort to bring freedom and independence to the Middle East. And both
events are subsets of a wider phenomenon: the transfer of power from
the top of the pyramid to the bottom. 
  
  Democracy is not the Kingdom of God, but in a free atmosphere,
people more often choose to follow Him. This change is broader than
government. In industry, the guys on the shop floor now just punch a
computer to get the information that once had to be parsed out by
middle management (R.I.P.). In the media, 8 million bloggers  and
websites like WorldNetDaily  are starting to supplant the giant TV
networks and newspapers. In education, homeschools have broken
the National Education Association monopoly. In entertainment, G-rated
films have mushroomed. 
  
But perhaps the most foundational changes are happening in the church,
the traditional guardian of society's key values. If you've always been
a Sunday-go-to-meetin' kind of Christian, you now have an exciting
alternative. Without changing one iota of your beliefs, you can upgrade
yourself from a pew potato to a world-changing pioneer. This has to be
the biggest megashift in the history of mankind. Not only has it
transformed the lives of over 100 million people worldwide during the
past 50 years, it has also been attested by millions of miracles. This
is not a rumor, it's a spiritual tsunami. 
  
  In "Megashift," I've documented many such miracles (including
true resurrections in 52 countries recently) with names and addresses.
Joseph Farah, in his brilliant May 25 column and his book, "Taking
America Back," states that turn-back-the-clock conservatives cannot win
the battle for America because their strategy is purely

[TruthTalk] [Fwd: Fw: Chuck Pitman, Lt. Gen., US Marine Corps (Ret.) ~ Apology ]









  

  
  
  
  


  
  
  
  


  
  
  
  


  
  
  

  























Subject: Chuck Pitman, Lt. Gen., US Marine Corps (Ret.) ~ " Apology



A Letter of Apology from Lieutenant General Chuck Pitman,
US Marine Corps, Retired:

"For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an
issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will harbor the
stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee
will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern
day massacre.

I humbly offer my opinion here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and
sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of
Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).

I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists
came after 9/11.

I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.

I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor
under savage dictatorships.

I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.

I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their
Religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.

I am sorry that Yasir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country
and high-jacked the Palestinian "cause."

I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more
than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.

I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest
financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely
wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems.

I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own
brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the
misleading vocal elements of our society, like radical professors,
CNN and the NY TIMES).

I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out
of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common
folk suffered.

I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide
bombers upon their death.

I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they
will receive 72 virgins in "paradise."

I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies,
children, the elderly and other non-combatant civilians are
legitimate targets.

I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang
rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own
making.

I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any
other group.

I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize
control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.

I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.

I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy
Site."

I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World
Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas 
Greek
Orthodox Church -- one of our Holy Sites.

I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS
Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg

and
Daniel Pearl, etc...etc!

I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized
viallage in Africa.

America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those
responsible because that is what we do.

We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move
on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide
this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an
apology.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the
news, we were like--so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few
prisoners. Sure, it was wrong! Sure, it dramatically hurts our 
cause,
but until captured, we were trying to kill those same prisoners. Now
we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?

Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own
people killed, mutilated and burned among a joyous crowd of
celebrating Fallujahans.

If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a
long wait!

You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins!


Chuck Pitman, Lt. Gen., US Marine Corps (Ret.)
Semper Fi

Re: [TruthTalk] Clowning Around




In a message dated 6/7/2005 7:14:22 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Oh, 
  Blaine, if you took my response as serious, thinking the picture really is 
  of me in a clown suit, then you did not catch the gist of my jest. Dave 
  just forwarded some photo he got somehwere, most likely on the web, and 
  posted it as though it was me. I was just playing along. But, still feel 
  free to call me a clown whenever you like!Perry
Perry

I finally saw the photo, and saved it to My Pictures. I will treasure 
it always, but please be aware that I do not believe it is not you. I 
think you are just clowning around again with this 
fake denial. :)
Blaine

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Dear Minister of Questions,

What did the word Trinity mean to the Apostle?
How did Paul view Bible search engines?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



The more important question IMO is "what did this word "bible" mean to the Apostle John in 98 AD. 

JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:35:51 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH






Rev 2218I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
JD, tell me what does the word ?Bible? mean? And what is the last book in the Bible? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




When did the Bible come into existence -- before or after the Revelation? There was no book called the "Bible" in first century times. But, certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said. 



Jd
-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 


From: ShieldsFamily 

You are wrong again, Blaine. Revelations says that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that part? Izzy

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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

I guess you just condemned a few Apostles, prophets and Jesus Christ!
Or did the religious crowd enjoy be called full of dead mens bones?

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:50:48 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



The decision to commit to actions and wording that is objectionable to others is living proof that those who do suchthings no longer care about those whom they insult. 

JDFrom: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]





Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.

From: Judy Taylor 
To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting on the toilet?

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Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha

CMON the proof is right before your eyes. Try closing your eyes and saying "I wish I were a bible critic" then click your heels.
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Am getting discouraged with this JD, it is a waste of my time - I can see no relation between scripture and the other. Also why are they all in Matthew? This is what I have found thus far - Can you find a common ground between them?


Matthew 4:4  Wisdom 16:26
1. He answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God (spoken to the devil)
2. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is not the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains those who trust in you.
Matthew 4:15  1 Maccabees 5:15
1. The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; (ppl in darkness seeing a great light)
2. They said that the people of Ptolemais and Tyre and Sidon, and all Galilee of the Gentiles had gathered together against them to annihilate us.
Matthew 5:18  Baruch 4:1
1. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
2. She is the book of the commandments of God, the law that endures forever. All who hold her fast will live, and those who forsake her will die.
Matthew 5:28  Sirach 9:8
1. But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
2. Turn away your eyes from a shapely woman, and do not gaze at beauty belonging to another; many have been seduced by a womans beauty, and by it passion is kindled like a fire.
Matthew 5:2ss  Sirach 25:7-12
1. And he opened his mouth and taught them saying: (Sermon on the Mount).
2. I can think of nine whom I would call blessed and a tenth my tongue proclaims: A man who can rejoice in his children; a man who lives to see the downfall of his foes. Happy the man who lives with a sensible wife, and the one who does not plow with ox and ass together. Happy is the one who does not sin with the tongue, and the one who has not served an inferior. Happy is the one who finds a friend, and the one who speaks to attentive listeners. How great is the one who finds wisdom! But none is superior to the one who fears the Lord. Fear of the Lord surpasses everything; to whom can we compare the one who has it?

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:21:06 -0400 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks JD, I appreciate the effort. Like a good Berean - I will check them all out and compare. jt

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



You persist in missing Lance's point. 

There are similar listings on the internet to this found below. No one is arguing that apocrapha is scripture. Continue with that line of debate and you are wasting time. 

JD






Matthew 4:4
Wisdom 16:26

Matthew 4:15
1 Maccabees 5:15

Matthew 5:18
Baruch 4:1

Matthew 5:28
Sirach 9:8

Matthew 5:2ss
Sirach 25:7-12

Matthew 5:4
Sirach 48:24

Matthew 6:7
Sirach 7:14

Matthew 6:9
Sirach 23:1, 4

Matthew 6:10
1 Maccabees 3:60

Matthew 6:12
Sirach 28:2

Matthew 6:13
Sirach 33:1

Matthew 6:20
Sirach 29:10s

Matthew 6:23
Sirach 14:10

Matthew 6:33
Wisdom 7:11

Matthew 7:12
Tobit 4:15

Matthew 7:12
Sirach 31:15

Matthew 7:16
Sirach 27:6

Matthew 8:11
Baruch 4:37

Matthew 8:21
Tobit 4:3

Matthew 9:36
Judith 11:19

Matthew 9:38
1 Maccabees 12:17

Matthew 10:16
Sirach 13:17

Matthew 11:14
Sirach 48:10

Matthew 11:22
Judith 16:17

Matthew 11:25
Tobit 7:17

Matthew 11:25
Sirach 51:1

Matthew 11:28
Sirach 24:19

Matthew 11:28
Sirach 51:23

Matthew 11:29
Sirach 6:24s

Matthew 11:29
Sirach 6:28s

Matthew 11:29
Sirach 51:26s

Matthew 12:4
2 Maccabees 10:3

Matthew 12:5
Sirach 40:15

Matthew 13:44
Sirach 20:30s

Matthew 16:18
Wisdom 16:13

Matthew 16:22
1 Maccabees 2:21

Matthew 16:27
Sirach 35:22

Matthew 17:11
Sirach 48:10

Matthew 18:10
Tobit 12:15

Matthew 20:2
Tobit 5:15

Matthew 22:13
Wisdom 17:2

Matthew 23:38
Tobit 14:4

Matthew 24:15
1 Maccabees 1:54

Matthew 24:15
2 Maccabees 8:17

Matthew 24:16
1 Maccabees 2:28

Matthew 25:35
Tobit 4:17

Matthew 25:36
Sirach 7:32-35

Matthew 26:38
Sirach 37:2

Matthew 27:24
Daniel 13:46

Matthew 27:43
Wisdom 2:13

Matthew 27:43
Wisdom 2:18-20





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RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

What did Paul think of Gay clothing in 98AD?ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
God knew. -Original Message-Also, it does not matter what John thought Bible or book meant in the first century, as someone suggested...he was just writing down what he was being shown and told to write.Perry--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www..InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] JS is a False Priest according to Blaine

Just pointing out, (in your own post) YOU called CPL a clown, right after complaining about such behavoir. 

?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Blaine: At least I don't run every person off the forum who disagrees with me --talk about weird--or, maybe a better word is self-admiring. Now, I will be the one to get in trouble for saying that, despite your constant trash-mouthing of my religion and my character, for which nothing will be done or even said.



In a message dated 6/6/2005 11:45:31 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

No implying Here Blaine I declare JS as a False Prophet, teacher and Pervert. 
The facts bear that out.
You can not be serious! 
You have a double standard, what else should we expect from the most persecuted people in the world?
You called CPL a clown see your own post belowYou have a wierd sense of standards
Blaine,


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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

I did not set it on fire.
Although we did dry some on a clothesline.
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/antis/200404gc.html
(third pic down)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





So, you weren't waving it around? You were just walking around the streets holding someone's underwear in your hands? 

Jd
-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:35:55 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



Did someone burn Mormon underwear?

When did holding something in your hand become a desecration.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

If a EFFEMINATE PC faith, fits you see to it!
Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Do you believe that what I wrote is a crrect teaching or not? -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:17:23 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



Does thisapplyto yourself JD, or is it just for "others"? Do you think DM is humored every time he is
referred to as legalistic and a false prophet among other things and what about repaying Kevin evil for
what you perceive to be evil?

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:50:48 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



The decision to commit to actions and wording that is objectionable to others is living proof that those who do suchthings no longer care about those whom they insult. 

JDFrom: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]





Jt says 'to each his own, everyone has their own type of humour - it's a cultural thing, Lance.' Therefore we may assume that profaning the 'sacred' matters not to her. So make fun of or desecrate the flag, the Scriptures or Mormon undergarments, ...all in that which one finds humorouseh? Can I get an 'Amen' from all, Mormon and non-Mormon on this point by Judy? Try burning a Koran at a Mosque when the worshippers on walking in. Tell them it's just a 'cultural thingy'.

From: Judy Taylor 
To each his own; everyone has their own type of humor - it's a cultural thing Lance.
Do you think it was ungodly for Elijah to mock the prophets of Baal at Mt. Carmel by telling them their god just might be sitting on the toilet?


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Re: [TruthTalk] prayer of a prophet

The Prayer of a Minor Prophet
A W Tozer
The covenant and prayer of a preacher
This is the prayer of a man called to be a witness to the nations. This is what he said to his Lord on the day of his ordination. After the elders and ministers had prayed and laid their hands on him he withdrew to meet his Savior in the secret place and in the silence, farther in than his well-meaning brethren could take him.
And he said: O Lord, I have heard Thy voice and was afraid. Thou has called me to an awesome task in a grave and perilous hour. Thou art about to shake all nations and the earth and also heaven, that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. O Lord, my Lord, Thou has stooped to honor me to be Thy servant. No man taketh this honor upon himself save he that is called of God as was Aaron. Thou has ordained me Thy messenger to them that are stubborn of heart and hard of hearing. They have rejected Thee, the Master, and it is not to be expected that they will receive me, the servant.
My God, I shall not waste time deploring my weakness nor my unfittedness for the work. The responsibility is not mine, but Thine. Thou has said, "I knew thee - I ordained thee - I sanctified thee," and Thou hast also said, "Thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak." Who am I to argue with Thee or to call into question Thy sovereign choice? The decision is not mine but Thine. So be it, Lord. Thy will, not mine, be done.
Well do I know, Thou God of the prophets and the apostles, that as long as I honor Thee Thou will honor me. Help me therefore to take this solemn vow to honor Thee in all my future life and labors, whether by gain or by loss, by life or by death, and then to keep that vow unbroken while I live.
It is time, O God, for Thee to work, for the enemy has entered into Thy pastures and the sheep are torn and scattered. And false shepherds abound who deny the danger and laugh at the perils which surround Thy flock. The sheep are deceived by these hirelings and follow them with touching loyalty while the wolf closes in to kill and destroy. I beseech Thee, give me sharp eyes to detect the presence of the enemy; give me understanding to see and courage to report what I see faithfully. Make my voice so like Thine own that even the sick sheep will recognize it and follow Thee.
Lord Jesus, I come to Thee for spiritual preparation. Lay Thy hand upon me. Anoint me with the oil of the New Testament prophet. Forbid that I should be come a religious scribe and thus lose my prophetic calling. Save me from the curse that lies dark across the modern clergy, the curse of compromise, of imitation, of professionalism. Save me from the error of judging a church by its size, its popularity or the amount of its yearly offering. Help me to remember that I am a prophet - not a promoter, not a religious manager, but a prophet. Let me never become a slave to crowds. Heal my soul of carnal ambitions and deliver me from the itch for publicity. Save me from bondage to things. Let me not waste my days puttering around the house. Lay Thy terror upon me, O God, and drive me to the place of prayer where I may wrestle with principalities and powers and the rulers of the darkness of this world. Deliver me from
overeating and late sleeping. Teach me self-discipline that I may be a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
I accept hard work and small rewards in this life. I ask for no easy place. I shall try to be blind to the little ways that could make life easier. If others seek the smoother path I shall try to take the hard way without judging them too harshly. I shall expect opposition and try to take it quietly when it comes. Or if, as sometimes it falleth out to Thy servants, I should have grateful gifts pressed upon me by Thy kindly people, stand by me then and save me from the blight that often follows. Teach me to use whatever I receive in such manner that will not injure my soul nor diminish my spiritual power. And if in Thy permissive providence honor should come to me from Thy church, let me not forget in that hour that I am unworthy of the least of Thy mercies, and that if men knew me as intimately as I know myself they would withhold their honors or bestow them upon others more worthy to receive
them.
And now, O Lord of heaven and earth, I consecrate my remaining days to Thee; let them be many or few, as Thou wilt. Let me stand before the great or minister to the poor and lowly; that choice is not mine, and I would not influence it if I could. I am Thy servant to do Thy will, and that will is sweeter to me than position or riches or fame and I choose it above all things on earth or in heaven.
Though I am chosen of Thee and honored by a high and holy calling, let me never forget that I am but a man of dust and ashes, a man with all the natural faults and passions that plague the race of men. I pray Thee, therefore, my Lord and Redeemer, save me from myself and from all the injuries I may do myself

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha

I see more similarity with scrambled eggs![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



If you cannot see a similarity between the two references below, stop reading. I see a very clear similarity. If you don't agree, so what? 

JD-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:53:47 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha



Am getting discouraged with this JD, it is a waste of my time - I can see no relation between scripture and the other. Also why are they all in Matthew? This is what I have found thus far - Can you find a common ground between them?


Matthew 4:4  Wisdom 16:26
1. He answered and said, ?it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God? (spoken to the devil)


2. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is not the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains those who trust in you.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

The Minister of Questions wants to know.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Was it the last chapter in the Bible when it waswritten? 

Jd-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:16:43 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


Don't you think it is significant that the warning is written in the last
chapter of The Book? Iz 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Izzy, I have to vote for "this book" in Rev 22:18,19 applying specifically
to the Revelation. I used to try to apply it to the whole Bible (in a debate
with a mormon many years ago) , and I DO believe that the general principle
applies to the whole Bible, but in particular believe that these verses are
referring specifically to the Book of Revelation.

Perry

From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:35:51 -0500

  Rev 2218I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of 
this
book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are
written in this book;19and if anyone takes away from the words of the
book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of 
life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

JD, tell me what does the word "Bible" mean? And what is the last book 
in the Bible? Izzy



   _

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



When did the Bible come into existence  --  before or after the Revelation?
There was no book called the "Bible" in first century times.   But,
certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said.



Jd


-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy 
and in Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
_javascript_:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');  writes:

In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations.

From: ShieldsFamily
_javascript_:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');


You are wrong again, Blaine.  Revelations says that no one is to add or 
subtract from the Bible.  Did you miss that part? Izzy





--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend 
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he will be subscribed.

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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


much more information than I care to consider !!

JD-Original Message-From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 15:53:59 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 





So, you weren't waving it around? You were just walking around the streets holding someone's underwear in your hands? 

Jd
Are you saying that somewhere in Salt Lake City there is a Mormon with no skivvies?That is common down here where it is still ninety degrees at bed time, but SLC is a little cool for that. Might freeze your equipment.

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha


Home alone-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:05:05 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha



Yea hath God said?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



If you cannot see a similarity between the two references below, stop reading. I see a very clear similarity. If you don't agree, so what? 

JD-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:53:47 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha



Am getting discouraged with this JD, it is a waste of my time - I can see no relation between scripture and the other. Also why are they all in Matthew? This is what I have found thus far - Can you find a common ground between them?


Matthew 4:4  Wisdom 16:26
1. He answered and said, ?it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God? (spoken to the devil)


2. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is not the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains those who trust in you.


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Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha

Have you found an alternate interpretation yet?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Why have yoou written this?


 Why not allow the scriptures to speak 
to your heart rather than fill it with error and mixture?__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha

JD says I see a very clear similarity.

I SEE IT!
I SEE IT!
They both have the words "it is the but"in them!

watch that ditch.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



If you cannot see a similarity between the two references below, stop reading. I see a very clear similarity. If you don't agree, so what? 

JD-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:53:47 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apocrypha



Am getting discouraged with this JD, it is a waste of my time - I can see no relation between scripture and the other. Also why are they all in Matthew? This is what I have found thus far - Can you find a common ground between them?


Matthew 4:4  Wisdom 16:26
1. He answered and said, ?it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God? (spoken to the devil)


2. So that your children, whom you loved, O Lord, might learn that it is not the production of crops that feeds humankind but that your word sustains those who trust in you.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Why frame it as an undewrwear debate?
We hold the fig leaf aprons also. in the Temple Satan tells the LDS it is "a token of his priesthoods" and they put them on. A fig leaf will never cover your SIN!
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/antis/200302.html
I doubt that Bob was an eyewitness, but hey there is always poetic license to lie right?

BOB lies or repeats a lie "One man, dressed in his church clothes, walked past in the crowd, saw the insults and desecrations, and grabbed the piece of clothing. To protect it. He was charged with robbery and taken to jail."
I was an eyewitness Mr Basilio assualted from behind with a choke hold a guy half his size, while he was praying not "waving",to protect the sacred undies? If it is sacred surely LDS must assualt to protect it. MY Pastor does not assault people! What's with this HIGH PRIEST?
http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?sid=51767nid=39template=print
Jose Basilio Charged with Robbery "This person was talking against the Church, saying bad things against the Prophet. He was showing a garment. It was a woman's garment. The ones we wear as members of the LDS Church. I'm a High Priest. I was angry. I tried to take it from himHe said I tried to hit him. But I did not hit him. I know martial arts and if I would have wanted to hurt him, I could have broken his arm or leg. He was just a youth and I am an adult. I had no intention to hurt him."
"DWAYNE BAIRD/SALT LAKE CITY POLICE: IN DOING SO IT TOOK THE MAN TO THE GROUND, THE VICTIM AND IT DRAGGED HIM A COUPLE OF FEET AS THIS MAN RAN AWAY WITH HIS PROPERTY." Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

So, you weren't waving it around? You were just walking around the streets holding someone's underwear in your hands?

Jd
Are you saying that somewhere in Salt Lake City there is a Mormon with no skivvies?That is common down here where it is still ninety degrees at bed time, but SLC is a little cool for that. Might freeze your equipment.

Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!

Re: [TruthTalk] JS is a False Priest according to Blaine





Blaine: That too. :)

In a message dated 6/6/2005 3:13:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  You are confusing.
  
  Did you mean do not take me too 
  seriously?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  






Blaine: Don't take me too personally, Kevin. I was hoping 
you guys would laugh with me, but, . . . I must have gotten to 
you w/o intending to. Are we having fun yet, Kev? 
:)

Re: [TruthTalk] Clowning Around

Well, I do have to admit a slight resemblance.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Clowning Around
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:33:54 EDT

In a message dated 6/7/2005 7:14:22 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Oh,  Blaine, if you took my response as serious, thinking the picture 
really

is  of me in a clown suit, then you did not catch the gist of my jest. Dave
just forwarded some photo he got somehwere, most likely on the web, and
posted it as though it was me. I was just playing along. But, still feel
free to call me a clown whenever you like!

Perry
Perry

I finally saw the photo, and saved it to My Pictures.  I will treasure  it
always, but please be aware that I do not believe it is not you.  I  think 
you

are just clowning around again with this
fake denial.  :)
Blaine

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

What then of this scripture?
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath daysMarlin halverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Sunday worship in your eyes is thena symptom of what? Kevin Deegan 
I believe it, instead of Sabbath keeping,is a symptom of the strong delusion mentioned in 2 Thesolonians 2 and a fulfillment of Isaiah 56.

- Original Message - 

From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

Sunday worship in your eyes is thena symptom of what?Marlin halverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


Do you believe Sunday Worship is the mark of the beast? Kevin Deegan 
Although it, instead of Sabbath keeping,may be a symptom, it is not 'the' mark of the beast. 


- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

Do you believe Sunday Worship is the mark of the beast?Marlin halverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 




It seems that with very narrow exceptions, all roads lead to Rome. As the Virginia Slims cigarette commercial said to the 'liberated woman,' "You've come a long way baby." It is now time for thatcorporatebody, which has a papal form of government,to take"Rome's Challenge"of 1893. 

--Marlin

- Original Message - 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:12 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on



Years ago, when I too, was a legalist, I enjoyed listening to Herbert W Armstrong and Garner Ted. 

But they lost me with their emphasis on the Old LAw. Many of their arguments -- such as "against evolution" -- were actually very good. 

Anyway -- Carner Ted did the twist with one of the sisters and Herbert died in the mid 80"s

and something very unusual happened to this fellowship. I don't know what to think about all the changes, but one very important change was the "end of the law" and life in a relationship with the Christ.

You just might find this article interesting. 

http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm



Jd
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RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









I dont know for sure, but suspect
so. However that is irrelevant, as God saw to it that it was the last
book in the Bible. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:14
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH











Was it the last chapter in the Bible when it
waswritten? 











Jd




-Original Message-
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:16:43 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



Don't you think
it is significant that the warning is written in the last

chapter of The
Book? Iz 



-Original
Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke

Sent: Tuesday,
June 07, 2005 8:39 AM

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



Izzy, I have to
vote for this book in Rev 22:18,19 applying specifically

to the
Revelation. I used to try to apply it to the whole Bible (in a debate

with a mormon
many years ago) , and I DO believe that the general principle

applies to the
whole Bible, but in particular believe that these verses are

referring
specifically to the Book of Revelation.



Perry



From:
ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Date: Tue, 7
Jun 2005 08:35:51 -0500



 Rev 2218I
testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of 

this

book: if
anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are

written in
this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the

book of this
prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of 

life and from
the holy city, which are written in this book.



JD, tell me
what does the word Bible mean? And what is the last book 

in the Bible?
Izzy








_



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Monday,
June 06, 2005 12:03 PM

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH







When did the
Bible come into existence -- before or after the Revelation?

There was no
book called the Bible in first century times. But,

certainly, we
should not be adding to what God has said.







Jd





-Original
Message-

From: Judy
Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Mon, 6
Jun 2005 13:17:29 -0400

Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



Myth - It is
finished already



And this
warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy 

and in
Proverbs.







On Mon, 6 Jun
2005 13:01:12 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

_javascript_:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]'); 
writes:



In 'Prophecy:
The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations.



From:
ShieldsFamily

_javascript_:parent.ComposeTo('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');





You are wrong
again, Blaine.
Revelations says that no one is to add or 

subtract from
the Bible. Did you miss that part? Izzy











--

Let your
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know

how you ought to
answer every man. (Colossians 4:6)

http://www.InnGlory.org



If you do not
want to receive posts from this list, send an email to

[EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a

friend who wants
to join, tell him to send an e-mail to

[EMAIL PROTECTED] and
he will be subscribed.







--

Let your
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 

you ought to
answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org



If you do not
want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend 

who wants to
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 

he will be
subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] WorldNetDaily: How and why we're going to win









I believe that dovetailing with that I
believe is the home-school movement. Its all very exciting! Thanks
Judy. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:32
PM
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] WorldNetDaily:
How and why we're going to win







FYI - I'd be interested in
David/Christine Miller  Terry's take on this article since they are
involved in





the home-church movement. jt











This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
follows. 
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44629












Tuesday, June 7, 2005











How and why we're going to win











Posted: June 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern





By Jim Rutz











 2005 WorldNetDaily.com 
Far below the rusty radar of the portside press, the tide of history has turned
against tyranny and in favor of the common man. The whole world, in fact,
is changing hands for the first and last time. Tyrants and generals have
swept across the Earth for centuries, crushing and raising empires. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon,
Persia, Greece, Rome
and the dynasties of the East have all been driven by pharaohs, emperors and
kings. 






For one brief blip of time, a nexus of freedom did blaze in the Near East, as early Christianity poured power into the
hearts and hands of ordinary believers. But this fledgling participatory
church, with plain folks meeting from house to house and urging each member to
freely teach or sing or pray in turn, was soon subverted by its own leaders. 






Facing widespread heresy and persecution, the young church decided to copy the
enemy (Rome).
Reaching back into their past, they resurrected the Levitical priesthood and
regrouped as a top-down hierarchy, starting about A.D. 90. Then, under Constantine in the 320s,
Christianity totally collapsed into an institution, putting bishops over
bishops over bishops
and squashing the common man. The fire went out, and Western Civilization
collapsed into the Dark Ages in A.D. 476.






A millennium later, the reformers restored basic Christian doctrine, and the
Great Awakening stirred hope in individual hearts. But all the oppressive
structures remained intact. The West then floundered desperately through a
series of mindsets: Enlightenment philosophy, French-style revolution, Lockean
limited government, Fabian socialism, and now a market-managing political
bureaucracy from Roosevelt and Keynes (which has just suffered a whopping
setback). Last week's rejection of a United States of Europe by
independent-minded voters in Holland and France
dovetails with the Bush
effort to bring freedom and independence to the Middle
 East. And both events are subsets of a wider phenomenon: the
transfer of power from the top of the pyramid to the bottom. 











Democracy is not the Kingdom
 of God, but in a free
atmosphere, people more often choose to follow Him. This change is
broader than government. In industry, the guys on the shop floor now just punch
a computer to get the information that once had to be parsed out by middle
management (R.I.P.). In the media, 8 million bloggers  and websites like
WorldNetDaily  are starting to supplant the giant TV networks and
newspapers. In education, homeschools have broken
the National Education Association monopoly. In entertainment, G-rated films
have mushroomed. 






But perhaps the most foundational changes are happening in the church, the
traditional guardian of society's key values. If you've always been a
Sunday-go-to-meetin' kind of Christian, you now have an exciting alternative.
Without changing one iota of your beliefs, you can upgrade yourself from a pew
potato to a world-changing pioneer. This has to be the biggest megashift in the
history of mankind. Not only has it transformed the lives of over 100 million people
worldwide during the past 50 years, it has also been attested by millions of
miracles. This is not a rumor, it's a spiritual tsunami. 











In Megashift, I've documented many such miracles (including
true resurrections in 52 countries recently) with names and addresses. Joseph
Farah, in his brilliant May 25 column and his book, Taking America
Back, states that turn-back-the-clock conservatives cannot win the battle
for America
because their strategy is purely defensive. He says we need a radically positive
vision. Bingo. And here are the two main ways that vision is going to
win. One, we're going to
overwhelm the secular liberals by sheer numbers (see my first column), thus
enabling us to pass a sweeping series of truly progressive reforms based on a radical
vision like Mr. Farah's. And two, we're going to cooperate with God in
re-creating the church, turning the people from a professionally led audience
into proactive disciples who get their directions straight from the Spirit.
(We can't change diehard spectators, but we can change many

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

The rapture is Heresy?

Does that mean that you will separate from those that teach such heresy?
Since it is Heresy does it damn ones soul?
Just what effect does your label of heresy have? Any real effect, other than to raise a controversy?

According to Titus 3:9-10 a heretic follows his self willed questions, he is to be avoided
But avoid foolish questions...A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Two issues arise:

1. Which 'heretical doctrines' arise from 'them'?
2. IFF some actually do then, are they offset by those 'heretical doctrines' arising from the 'accepted canon'. Example:The 'rapture' doctrine from 1 Thess.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 07, 2005 07:43
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


And the RCC adopted them as canon to support their heretical doctrines. Izzy 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:16 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


JD reaches back into his dusty old shelf of misinformation.

The Apocrypha was part of the corrupt mss 

The apocrypha was not part of the 1611 it was printed as a tool like the maps we have in our bibles, not interspesed as part of the text as in the Oldest  best manuscripts

The apocryphal books were not in the Jewish OT either only in the RC bibles.

The minister of questions chooses to mislead.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/ You may find this interesting. As far as "adding" to the bible -- did you know that the Apocrapha was a part of nearly all Bibles until the mid to late 1800's. The so-called "Prostestant bible"is a little over 120 yers old. Christ and or the New Testament writers quoted from most of them, themselves. 



Jd


-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:10:53 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


What were the more noble Bereans of Acts 17:11 checking Paul's teaching against? Also your favorite epistle

James is said to have been written by the Lord's brother only 15yrs following the ascension. Could we be

missing something here JD?



On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:03:19 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:




When did the Bible come into existence -- before or after the Revelation? There was no book called the "Bible" in first century times. But, certainly, we should not be adding to what God has said. Jd
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Myth - It is finished already

And this warning is not only in Revelation, it is also in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs.



On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:12 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


In 'Prophecy: The Uprising' they go on to FINISH the book of Revelations. 


From: ShieldsFamily 

You are wrong again, Blaine. Revelations says that no one is to add or subtract from the Bible. Did you miss that part? Izzy



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RE: [TruthTalk] WorldNetDaily: How and why we're going to win









Terry, I think you are correct about some
of the mega-churches, if they function as spectator church. However, some
of the large churches are actually finding a way to return to first century
style fellowship, as there is a large gathering together under the church
roof, but it becomes a place where you meet others and find your way into cell
home groups and into ministry. Our church (which is comparatively small
but growing at an alarming rate) had a volunteer celebration night this
week. It was shocking to see the percent of people who attend who also
minister in one way or another. My husband is the percussionist in the
band, which is mostly professional musicians who have only a couple of hours to
practice together before the Sat pm service, and then play again twice Sunday, and
yet make incredible music. Im plugged into the design team,
which puts together the setting according to the teaching theme going on each
weeksometimes just long fabric drapes from the catwalks overhead, and
sometimes quite amazing designs that set the atmosphere for opening hearts and
minds to the message. The benevolence ministry, as I mentioned, does
things that change the direction of many lives. I cannot mention all of
the dozens of ministries, let alone the small group fellowships
that spring from all of this activity. And the souls that are brought to
the foot of the Cross in all of this are testimony to the fact that Jesus is
lifted up in the multitude of ministries functioning therelike an Holy
Ghost directed orchestra. Its all very exciting, because everyone
watching realizes that it is totally a God thing. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:20
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
WorldNetDaily: How and why we're going to win





I am not certain that I have a take, Judy.On one hand,
I believe that we are in the last days, and if so, things will get worse, not
better. On the other hand, if what I believe is incorrect, I believe that
God will bless the house church and it will multiply. More and more
people are studying the Bible, and as they do, they see that the institutional
church is so far from what the Lord has planned that it is a miracle that He
still is able to use it. Like any giant business, it has a million paid
employees and a few at the top are getting rich telling those at the bottom how
to do it. If God is there, it is only because God is everywhere, not
because He is thrilled to sit among the pew warmers and hear an expert speak.
I am convinced that the mega churches of today are a temporary thing. You
will either see a return to simple gatherings of small groups of Christians or
you will see a great falling away, or both. I guess that is my take.
Terry




Judy Taylor wrote: 



FYI - I'd be interested in
David/Christine Miller  Terry's take on this article since they are
involved in





the home-church movement. jt











This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of
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Tuesday, June 7, 2005











How and why we're going to win











Posted: June 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern





By Jim Rutz











 2005 WorldNetDaily.com 
Far below the rusty radar of the portside press, the tide of history has turned
against tyranny and in favor of the common man. The whole world, in fact,
is changing hands for the first and last time. Tyrants and generals have
swept across the Earth for centuries, crushing and raising empires. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon,
Persia, Greece, Rome
and the dynasties of the East have all been driven by pharaohs, emperors and
kings. 






For one brief blip of time, a nexus of freedom did blaze in the Near East, as early Christianity poured power into the
hearts and hands of ordinary believers. But this fledgling participatory
church, with plain folks meeting from house to house and urging each member to
freely teach or sing or pray in turn, was soon subverted by its own leaders. 






Facing widespread heresy and persecution, the young church decided to copy the
enemy (Rome).
Reaching back into their past, they resurrected the Levitical priesthood and
regrouped as a top-down hierarchy, starting about A.D. 90. Then, under Constantine in the 320s,
Christianity totally collapsed into an institution, putting bishops over
bishops over bishops
and squashing the common man. The fire went out, and Western Civilization
collapsed into the Dark Ages in A.D. 476.






A millennium later, the reformers restored basic Christian doctrine, and the
Great Awakening stirred hope in individual hearts. But all the oppressive
structures remained intact. The West then floundered desperately through a
series of mindsets: Enlightenment philosophy, French-style revolution, Lockean
limited government, Fabian socialism, and now a market-managing

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH