Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION
I first heard of the info from Wesley Walters. David Millard was a publisher just 13 miles from Joe. Elias born 1769 died 1846 so he actually outlived joe Being that the Elias Smiths Church of Christ was Established 1803 joe was not even wet behind the ears yet. By the time joe hit the scene the CHRIST-ians were more involved in stopping the loss of members to the Unitarians then the Campbellites.Yes joe got it from campbell who got it from the CHRIST-ians as shown, they said it years before either of the other two.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate this info, Kevin. I seem to remember reading something from Joe Smith himself, however, that indicated he adopted this teaching from Campbell. Do you know if there is any mention of Joe Smith reading this information from Elias Smith?David Miller - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATIONNo David, read the links that show He adopted the "Christian Church" Movement as far as the name of the church must have the name Christ as in CHRIST-ian Church. Elias Smith taught that years before Alexander Campbell or Joe! How old were they in 1803, when he founded the "Church of Christ" in Portsmouth? Joe never was very original and a majority of the followers of the CHRIST-ian Church movement became followers of Campbellism. THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHfounded 1803 proclaims:" The Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the church. Christian our only name." A number of them met at Sandborton, in the spring of 1802, and organized what they called "The Christian Conference." The membership was almost wholly of Baptist clergymen. Smith had written out a series of articles setting forth his belief, which were read at the meeting. In September of the same year "The Christian Conference" met, at which time the articles were highly approved, and arrangements made for their publication. He says, "This was a bold and important step at this time, for by these [17] articles we condemned all others. The next step was to disown these, and hear Christ in all things." Elder Smith had, previous to this time, deliberately concluded to disown all names but the name Christian, and had taught that the name Christian was the only one for Christ's followers to wear. In the year 1802 he began his work in Portsmouth, N. H., where in 1803 he organized a "Church of Christ," owning Him as their only Master, Lord and Lawgiver, and agreeing to consider themselves Christian without the addition of any unscriptural namehttp://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, the Restoration movement we have discussed in the past. It involves a lot more than David Millard. In fact, somebody posted an article by Alexander Campbell (one of the founders of the Church of Christ movement)that criticized Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. I'm sure DaveH remembers that discussion. It was all a very fascinating historical discussion. As you know, Joseph Smith adopted Campbell's label of Church of Christ originally.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATIONWhat is also interesting is they have roots in the Restoration movement. via David Millard (contemporary of Joe who lived Published 13 miles away.) Elias Smith see links below.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is interesting, Kevin. The LDS believes in henotheism (a type of polytheism) and modalism at the same time? How can this be? DaveH, please let us know your thoughts about this.David Miller- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:18 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !!Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre "Church of Christ" -"CHRIST-ian church"?Sounds more like your HERITAGE!The guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have thename of CHRIST thus the Christian Church!http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMhttp://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htmhttp://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.htmlSome of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles fromJoe Smith and thus the MODALISM in the BoM!"Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book ofMormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings." (New Approachesto the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110)"Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the w
Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION
Yes, the Restoration movement we have discussed in the past. It involves a lot more than David Millard. In fact, somebody posted an article by Alexander Campbell (one of the founders of the Church of Christ movement)that criticized Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. I'm sure DaveH remembers that discussion. It was all a very fascinating historical discussion. As you know, Joseph Smith adopted Campbell's label of Church of Christ originally. David Miller - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION What is also interesting is they have roots in the Restoration movement. via David Millard (contemporary of Joe who lived Published 13 miles away.) Elias Smith see links below. David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is interesting, Kevin. The LDS believes in henotheism (a type of polytheism) and modalism at the same time? How can this be? DaveH, please let us know your thoughts about this.David Miller- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:18 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !!Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre "Church of Christ" -"CHRIST-ian church"?Sounds more like your HERITAGE!The guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have thename of CHRIST thus the Christian Church!http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMhttp://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htmhttp://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.htmlSome of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles fromJoe Smith and thus the MODALISM in the BoM!"Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book ofMormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings." (New Approachesto the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110)"Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world toredeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and theSon. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my sonsand my daughters." (Ether 3:14)http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/gods_1.htm--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen him they had seen the Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard from the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. Unifying around rebellion is what the end times "harlot church" is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not exist. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Agreed! I to hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize the faith once delivered to the saints and "walk in Truth" or reality. Jesus was not referring to any "Unity in diversity" in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the Father are One Is "Unity in diversity" how you see the Godhead or "Trinity?" JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who so identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective of a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It has occ
Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION
No David, read the links that show He adopted the "Christian Church" Movement as far as the name of the church must have the name Christ as in CHRIST-ian Church. Elias Smith taught that years before Alexander Campbell or Joe! How old were they in 1803, when he founded the "Church of Christ" in Portsmouth? Joe never was very original and a majority of the followers of the CHRIST-ian Church movement became followers of Campbellism. THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHfounded 1803 proclaims:" The Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the church. Christian our only name." A number of them met at Sandborton, in the spring of 1802, and organized what they called "The Christian Conference." The membership was almost wholly of Baptist clergymen. Smith had written out a series of articles setting forth his belief, which were read at the meeting. In September of the same year "The Christian Conference" met, at which time the articles were highly approved, and arrangements made for their publication. He says, "This was a bold and important step at this time, for by these [17] articles we condemned all others. The next step was to disown these, and hear Christ in all things." Elder Smith had, previous to this time, deliberately concluded to disown all names but the name Christian, and had taught that the name Christian was the only one for Christ's followers to wear. In the year 1802 he began his work in Portsmouth, N. H., where in 1803 he organized a "Church of Christ," owning Him as their only Master, Lord and Lawgiver, and agreeing to consider themselves Christian without the addition of any unscriptural namehttp://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, the Restoration movement we have discussed in the past. It involves a lot more than David Millard. In fact, somebody posted an article by Alexander Campbell (one of the founders of the Church of Christ movement)that criticized Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. I'm sure DaveH remembers that discussion. It was all a very fascinating historical discussion. As you know, Joseph Smith adopted Campbell's label of Church of Christ originally.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATIONWhat is also interesting is they have roots in the Restoration movement. via David Millard (contemporary of Joe who lived Published 13 miles away.) Elias Smith see links below.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is interesting, Kevin. The LDS believes in henotheism (a type of polytheism) and modalism at the same time? How can this be? DaveH, please let us know your thoughts about this.David Miller- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:18 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !!Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre "Church of Christ" -"CHRIST-ian church"?Sounds more like your HERITAGE!The guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have thename of CHRIST thus the Christian Church!http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMhttp://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htmhttp://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.htmlSome of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles fromJoe Smith and thus the MODALISM in the BoM!"Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book ofMormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings." (New Approachesto the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110)"Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world toredeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and theSon. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my sonsand my daughters." (Ether 3:14)http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/gods_1.htm--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are .
Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre Church of Christ - CHRIST-ian church? Sounds more like your HERITAGE! The guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have the name of CHRIST thus the Christian Church! http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTM http://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htm http://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.html Some of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles from Joe Smith and thus the MODALISM in the BoM! Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book of Mormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings. (New Approaches to the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110) Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my sons and my daughters. (Ether 3:14) http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/gods_1.htm --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed make them unity in diversity just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen him they had seen the Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard from the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. Unifying around rebellion is what the end times harlot church is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not exist. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Agreed! I to hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize the faith once delivered to the saints and walk in Truth or reality. Jesus was not referring to any Unity in diversity in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the Father are One Is Unity in diversity how you see the Godhead or Trinity? JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who so identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective of a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is not my real complaint. Henceforth and forever more, I will be opposed to sectarianism. The legal content of the sectarian is often different -- but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her stripes. They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed by Christ in John 17. There can be unity in diversity. In sectarian circles, the only unity that exists is one borne of the fear of reprisal. jd From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] One other thought on the creation thread. I wrote my remarks more because of Conor than for any other reason. My comments can stand on their own, I believe. I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I beleive the bible teaches such - for the reasons stated. Could the earth be only 6000 years old. I suppose so, but only the sectarians beleive such, IMHO. Is God the creator? Now that is the real question. I would think we all agree on the answer to that question. End of the matter for me. And, so, the opportunity to delve into the character of the opponent is side tracked.Motivation be damned -- in a biblical sense , of course. jd From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: To your first question , no. If I get time, I will try and present some of it for you. John wrote: To your second question, either you did not read my post or you have decided to insult my presentation? I read your post very carefully. I am not trying to insult you at all. Most of your argument revolves around why we should
Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION
This is interesting, Kevin. The LDS believes in henotheism (a type of polytheism) and modalism at the same time? How can this be? DaveH, please let us know your thoughts about this. David Miller - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre Church of Christ - CHRIST-ian church? Sounds more like your HERITAGE! The guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have the name of CHRIST thus the Christian Church! http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTM http://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htm http://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.html Some of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles from Joe Smith and thus the MODALISM in the BoM! Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book of Mormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings. (New Approaches to the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110) Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my sons and my daughters. (Ether 3:14) http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/gods_1.htm --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed make them unity in diversity just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen him they had seen the Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard from the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. Unifying around rebellion is what the end times harlot church is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not exist. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Agreed! I to hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize the faith once delivered to the saints and walk in Truth or reality. Jesus was not referring to any Unity in diversity in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the Father are One Is Unity in diversity how you see the Godhead or Trinity? JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who so identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective of a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is not my real complaint. Henceforth and forever more, I will be opposed to sectarianism. The legal content of the sectarian is often different -- but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her stripes. They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed by Christ in John 17. There can be unity in diversity. In sectarian circles, the only unity that exists is one borne of the fear of reprisal. jd From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] One other thought on the creation thread. I wrote my remarks more because of Conor than for any other reason. My comments can stand on their own, I believe. I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I beleive the bible teaches such - for the reasons stated. Could the earth be only 6000 years old. I suppose so, but only the sectarians beleive such, IMHO. Is God the creator? Now that is the real question. I would think we all agree on the answer to that question. End of the matter for me. And, so, the opportunity to delve into the character of the opponent is side tracked.Motivation be damned -- in a biblical sense , of course. jd From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: To your first question , no. If I
Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION
What is also interesting is they have roots in the Restoration movement. via David Millard (contemporary of Joe who lived Published 13 miles away.) Elias Smith see links below.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is interesting, Kevin. The LDS believes in henotheism (a type of polytheism) and modalism at the same time? How can this be? DaveH, please let us know your thoughts about this.David Miller- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:18 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !!Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre "Church of Christ" -"CHRIST-ian church"?Sounds more like your HERITAGE!The guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have thename of CHRIST thus the Christian Church!http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMhttp://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htmhttp://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.htmlSome of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles fromJoe Smith and thus the MODALISM in the BoM!"Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book ofMormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings." (New Approachesto the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110)"Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world toredeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and theSon. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my sonsand my daughters." (Ether 3:14)http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/gods_1.htm--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen him they had seen the Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard from the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. Unifying around rebellion is what the end times "harlot church" is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not exist. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Agreed! I to hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize the faith once delivered to the saints and "walk in Truth" or reality. Jesus was not referring to any "Unity in diversity" in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the Father are One Is "Unity in diversity" how you see the Godhead or "Trinity?" JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who so identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective of a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is not my real complaint. Henceforth and forever more, I will be opposed to sectarianism. The legal content of the sectarian is often different -- but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her stripes. They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed by Christ in John 17. There can be unity in diversity. In sectarian circles, the only unity that exists is one borne of the fear of reprisal. jd From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] One other thought on the creation thread. I wrote my remarks more because of Conor than for any other reason. My comments can stand on their own, I believe. I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I beleive the bible teaches such - for the reasons stated. Could the earth be only 6000 years old. I suppose so, but only the sectarians beleive such, IMHO. Is God the creator? Now that is the real question. I would think we all agree on the answer to that question. End of the
Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION
The LDS believes in henotheism modalism?Not at the same time. FIRST This is an IMPORTANT thing to rightly understand even Joe said so Let us here observe, that three things are necessary, in order that any rational and intelligent being may exercise faith in God unto life and salvation...Secondly, a correct idea of his character, perfections and attributes. (1835 DC, "Lecture Third of Faith")It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another... (April 1844, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 345)
The LDS godEVOLVED over time. This is easly to show from the extant manuscripts.The Evolution of the LDS GodTIMELINE: 1830 ONE GOD - Modalism "Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book of Mormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings." (New Approaches to the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110) The Book of Mormon tells of a visitation of the Father and the Son to the "brother of Jared," but the account is not speaking of two separate personages. Only one personage appears, and this personage says: "Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the
world to redeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my sons and my daughters." (Ether 3:14) "And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son... And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation (Book of Mormon, Mosiah 15:1, 2, 5) honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen. ("The Testimony of Three Witnesses," the last line) ...Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God... (Alma 11:44) 3 Nephi 11:27, 36; Alma 11:28-29 and Mormon 7:7The Book of Mormon (1830) declared that Mary 'is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh,' which was changed in 1837 to 'mother of the Son of God.'
1835 TWO GODS binitarianism - Gradual separation into TWO personages one a personage of SPIRIT one of taberancle (body)http://www.irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-gd-dc-lfp55.html p 55 1835 Lectures on Faith ONLY TWO personages in the godhead http://www.irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-gd-dc-lfp56.html 1835 Lectures on Faith p 56 Son is a personage of tabernacle (BODY) http://www.irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-gd-dc-lfp53.html 1835 LonF p 53 Father a personage of SPIRIT Son tabernacle (Body) http://www.irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-gd-dc-lfp57.html p 57 Holy Spirit is the SHARED MIND of Father/Son, NOT a Personage!1839 A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or
many gods, they shall be manifest. (March 20, 1839, DC 121:28) 1844 MANY GODS - Plurality of Gods "I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage--Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and or Spirit, and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods'. Teachings prophet J Smith 1844"First, God himself, who sits enthroned in yonder heavens, is a man like unto one of yourselves, that is the great secret I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined that God was God from all eternity God himself; the Father of us all dwelt on an earth
the same as Jesus Christ himself did... You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves... No man can learn you more than what I have told you." (1844 Times and Seasons, vol. 5, pp. 613-14) Also see: Joseph Smith's 1832 account of his first vision spoke only of one personage and did not make the explicit separation of God and Christ found in the 1838 version.The lack of LDS scriptures teaching any other view especially the current LDS view of the Godhead, during the time period 1830 - 1835 also testifies to the above.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is interesting, Kevin. The LDS believes in henotheism (a type of polytheism) and modalism at the same time? How can this be?
DaveH, please let us know your thoughts about this.David Miller- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:18 PMSubject: Re: [Tr
Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION
http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTM Elder Smith had, previous to this time, deliberately concluded to disown all names but the name Christian, and had taught that the name Christian was the only one for Christ's followers to wear. In the year 1802 he began his work in Portsmouth, N. H., where in 1803 he organized a "Church of Christ," owning Him as their only Master, Lord and Lawgiver, and agreeing to consider themselves Christian without the addition of any unscriptural name. Wonder where the LDS belief came from? THE SEVENTEEN POINTS OF THE TRUE CHURCH The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ (Eph 5:23) http://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htm Millard lived most of his adult life in the area south of Rochester, New York, but he traveled extensively. He secured a place for himself in the Trinitarian controversy while he was yet young by publishing a short; work on the subject in 1818Before they were Campbellites they were Christ-ians By 1840, however, the rift between Campbell and the New England Christians was certain. By that time they accused Stone of having gone over to the Campbellites(Joe would have been about 16, as LDS say "how could such a young boy make up the BoM?) http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1851Trn1.htm#turn1850 The elder Smith had been a Universalist, and subsequently a MethodistBut Joseph had a little ambition, and some very laudable aspirations; the mother's intellect occasionally shone out in him feebly, especially when he used to help us to solve some portentous questions of moral or political ethics, in our juvenile debating club, which we moved down to the old red school-house on Durfee street, to get rid of the annoyance of critics that used to drop in upon us in the village; amid, subsequently, after catching a spark of Methodism in the camp-meeting, away down in the woods, on the Vienna road, he was a very passable exhorter in evening meetings. Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre "Church of Christ" -"CHRIST-ian church"?Sounds more like your HERITAGE!The guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have thename of CHRIST thus the Christian Church!http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMhttp://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htmhttp://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.htmlSome of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles fromJoe Smith and thus the MODALISM in the BoM!"Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book ofMormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings." (New Approachesto the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110)"Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world toredeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and theSon. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my sonsand my daughters." (Ether 3:14)http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/gods_1.htm--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. izIf your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen him they had seen the Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard from the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. Unifying around rebellion is what the end times "harlot church" is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not exist. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Agreed! I to hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize the faith once delivered to the saints and "walk in Truth" or reality. Jesus was not referring to any "Unity in diversity" in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the Father are One Is "Unity in diversity" how you see the Godhead or "Trinity?" JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL
