subject:"Re\: \[TruthTalk\] Re\:The HEART of the matter"

cd: Brother Kevin -I wouldn't waste to much time on these guys-No amount of evidence is enough and when you do put the evidence in front of them they jump to something else-DJ or is it JD or what ever his name is is no different-He thinks its okay to fault the brethren and love the false teacher-with God loves everybody theology. This is the same stuff we get out on the street but as we often discussed among the brethren-Satans job is to" ware out" the brethern with trash talk so that when the true seeker comes alone we are too tired to give them proper attention.The sad part is that these type on foolish street people think they serve God and actually know him. I am thinking of spending time with Jd and trying to help him-if possible. What do you think-by the way keep this quite.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 8:34:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

It is OK don't fret God the father  Mary were married!
"God, the Father of our spirits, became the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh ...The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father ...He had a lawful right to overshadow the Virgin Mary in the capacity of a husband, and beget a Son, although she was espoused to another; for the law which He gave to govern men and women, was not intended to govern Himself, or to prescribe rules for his own conduct" (The Seer, Orson Pratt, pg. 158). 

Could anything be more clear or is the "way" forall your kids, TEST TUBE BABIES?
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 547.) 

Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bill, what constitutes a loss of virginity, "knowing" a man, or having a baby? I surmise the former.(Since this is aone-time event, we certainly have no precedence!)Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?Matt 1:24-25: Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.PerryFrom: "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matterDate: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 07:07:03 -0600After the birth of Christ, Mary was still a virgin. Surely we all believe this !!I don't. After his conception, Mary was still a virgin. After his birth, <
BR>... well, think about it. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter The answers DH has given in this post should end the matters under discussion. I would agree, that after whatever happened to Mary to bring the fetus that would be God/man into existencem the development and birth of that infant was quite natural. If DH believes more than what he said, well, he didn't say it in this post. What as been written, is clear enough. After the birth of Christ, Mary was still a virgin. Surely we all believe this !! Church leaders often speak from their personal convictions. 7 ft Quakers is a part of this discussion because ? I would say that whatever the reason, DH is no
t a co-believer in the Quaker theory. How can anyone believe in 7 Quakers? For the same reason one might believe that King James was the first Evangelical or that the KJV is inspired AS A TRANSLATION or that the Law is still in full effect as an attachment to our salvation or well , you get the point, no? In debate, one does not need to disprove something that has not been evidenced. And, certainly, not to one's "satisfaction." One of the greatest rock n roll bands of all time sings "can't get no satisfaction."  And that seems to be the path taken in the Dean-o ,,.. DH discussion. JD -Original Message- From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:05:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter cd 10/20: Then-pray tell me- What does th
e term Natural/Trational Conception mean Dave? And how can one whom produces Naturally/Tradionaly still be a virgin? DAVEH: I explained what it means to me in a post yesterday, Dean. But I will briefly explain it again to make sure you understand it. To me, natural is the process whereby genetic coding is used to define a person. I believe Jesus is literally the Son of both Go

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

JD and Daveh you have accused me of being wrong on many things -and now Kevin sends proof -JD I am waiting on your apologies.

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 9:36:08 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

AnswerPappa had sex with Mama, and your point was 

Again, "unique" as in one of a kind is a better translation of the Greek word you see as "begotten."
He is God's eternal Son and , as such, was not born into Sonship (speaking of the incarnation). He has always been the Son. 

JD-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:38:19 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Begotten has nothing at all to do with the birth of Jesus, folks. Good thing I stick around orsome of you would really get confused !!

Maybe you could answer this SUNDAY SCHOOL question, or is it too advanced for you?
Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten?

ANSWER _
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Begotten has nothing at all to do with the birth of Jesus, folks. Good thing I stick around orsome of you would really get confused !!

Jd -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:10:56 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Chidren are NOT Begotten in a Test Tube.

Jesus was the ONLY Begotten of the Father!
QUESTION 
How are Children Begotten
Can you answer this DaveH?
Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.net wrote:
. cd: Daveh you big cry baby-Claiming I am a liar after all the backstabbing comments-By your standards then- when have I ever backstabbed-show me proof or ask for forgiveness. As I understand the below-theunion between God and Mary was natural-then you say it was a genetic testtube type babby-Then your prophet (seer)Orson Pratt whom Mormons claim arenever wrong (remember the brain washing of having to repeat over and over"the prophet is never wrong") said she wasn't a virgin. Have you ever heardof blasphemy(ie.accusing God of sin)?You and your cult are full of poop youare a stench in the nostrils of God -a "fart" best describes you and yourcult.
  The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of ourchildren;  it was the result of natural action(though not necessarily sexual) whereby  the genetic makeup of our Heavenly Father was combined with Mary'sgeneticmakeup to bring forth a child in as natural a fashion as science now  teaches.  LDS theology teaches that Mary was a virgin.considering how LDS folks think or believe.   Probably the most extremely opinionated person quoted was OrsonPrattin The Seer, which was a highly speculative book based on OP's opinions. Despite being an LDS leader, his opinions are no substitute for official  doctrine, which is found
 in the Standard Works. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

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Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 9:37:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

I have alreadyproven my point. Sorry you missed it. 

JD

You have proven no point-just given half truth of God word.-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:02:33 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did?

1 Sam 3 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated?
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

-Original Message-From: Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:49:33 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Are you saying that the Mormon church has an official position on their prophets that teaches them to be infallible in all that they say and do? I don't think so. A little proof, please. Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did? I don't think so. I won't ask for proof, here, because you could not possibly give such proof. As far as Adam Clark's testimony is concerned, well, two things -- where did he say this and, secondly, if he meant to preach the value of a angry God gospel -- then, in that, he departed from the truth and should not have been preaching to anyone. I haveseen many brought to Christ because of the love of God. Besides, if I werebig enough and bad enough,
; ;nbs p; I could scare many people into doing thingsthat have nothing to do with a truthful response.I could scare my wife into giving me sex. I cannot scare my wife into loving me. NEITHER CAN GOD. 

JD

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 11:30:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Yes, Ido see the point. But did he make this statement ? Did he make this statement as a prophet of God? Is this a statement of faith for the Mormon religion? The prophets of old were not inspired in their daily comings and goings. I am sure they spoke and id things that were not in line with truth or even practicalities. 

Jdcd:The Mormons claim that their prophets are always correct.I am not aware of any true prophet in the bible making any outrageous claims-it you know of any I would like see your info.God is known for truth so are his men-yet we are seen as liars and their lies as truth-especially by those whom claim Christianity. You know the 'God loves everybody crowd'. Yet Adam Clark (A very powerful evangelist circuit rider)said thatin all his years of preachinghe knew of only one person to come to God after hearing the love message-Preaching fear of God led to many repenting to Christ.

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Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

cd: More Mormon Crap.Mormon Spin as another used to say who got tired of your crap and left the list.

- Original Message - 
From: Dave 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/23/2005 12:43:55 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
DAVEH: I never said that you did backstab me, Dean.cd: More Mormon crap.DAVEH: IF I said that you backstabbed me Dean, there would be a TT post saying such. IF you or any other TT would quote that comment as you claim I did, then I will surely apologize. Butneither you nor any other TTer can find me making that claim, so why do you say that it is More Mormon crap.??? I find it rather intriguing that you would make a false claim, and then when I respond to it in defense, you then claim it isMore Mormon crap. What is prompting you to think that way, and say things like that, Dean?Dean Moore wrote: 

DAVEH: I never said that you did backstab me, Dean. 
cd: More Mormon crap.Dean Moore wrote: 

 DAVEH: I do believe you are rambling, Brother Dean. Take a couple aspirin, a deep breath..and if you want to ask me a sincere question, please put it in a cogent post. But if you would rather rant, please be advised that other people may be reading this anddo you really want others to hear you thinking like this?

cd: Answer the charge when I have I ever backstabbed you?-- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

cd: My question is-How could any Mormon not know this is common knowledge for them. Yet we have one that claims to never have heard this or any of the informationI have shared. Mormon crap indeed. Be shore to stand by untruth till the end JD-Tie yourself tightly to the sinking ship while you can by helping him cover up truth.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/23/2005 12:52:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Here we see it could not be a TEST TUBE:
"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742). 

"Christ was Begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.547). 

What could this literal flesh refer to in contrast to "as well as in the spirit"?
Joseph Fielding Smith "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended by any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit" (Religious Truths Defined, p.44). 

Fathered by FLESH?
Carfred Broderick (Mormon author) writes: "God is a procreating personage of flesh and bone...latter-day prophets have made it clear that despite what it says in Matthew 1:20, the Holy Ghost was not the father of Jesus...The Savior was fathered by a personage of flesh and bone" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn, 1967, p.100-101).

How does one pass the seed?
"The Father had a Son, a natural Son, his own literal Seed, the Offspring of his body" (Bruce McConkie, The Promised Messiah, pg.355). 

"There is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord's coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is just that simple" (The Promised Messiah, pg.468). 

'' l believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Savior of the World; for He is the Only Begotten of the Father which could not have been if the Father did not actually beget him in person''. (Young Journal of Discourses Vol. 1 page 238)

What is the difference?
''When the time came that His first-born, the Savior, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Savior was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me.'' (Journal of Discourses Vol. 4 page 218) 

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7). 

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers" (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, 8:115). 

"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.742). 

"Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of man and that man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18)Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

So if it does not specifically say sex or intercourse it can't refer to such?

Please show us where the Bible says "God is a man"
Please show us where the bible says God is "one in purpose"

Why does your "god" have an erection?
Just one of his body parts and bodily passions?
who is the recipient of his "bodily passions"?Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: OK Dean.Kevin has posted quite a bit of material below. Please point out where any of those quoted use the term intercourse or sex. Lacking that, it would seem you've been misquoting/misstating/misunderstanding their comments.Dean Moore wrote: 

Thank you Kevin for this

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter


Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated?
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?
I gave you Abraham, Isaac, King David, Samson and Jonah.King Saul and Solomon were God's choice, as well. My point being that men of God, chosen and used by the Great GodAlmighty, were no more perfect in life than anyone else. Were Samuel and Jeremiah perfect? Hardly. There is none righteous, nonot one --- a statment that most surely was true before the Cross. 

Jd-Original Message-From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:29:54 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter








- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 9:37:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



I have alreadyproven my point. Sorry you missed it. 

JD

You have proven no point-just given half truth of God word.-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:02:33 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter




Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did?

1 Sam 3 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated?
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



-Original Message-From: Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:49:33 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter




Are you saying that the Mormon church has an official position on their prophets that teaches them to be infallible in all that they say and do? I don't think so. A little proof, please. Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did? I don't think so. I won't ask for proof, here, because you could not possibly give such proof. As far as Adam Clark's testimony is concerned, well, two things -- where did he say this and, secondly, if he meant to preach the value of a angry God gospel -- then, in that, he departed from the truth and should not have been preaching to anyone. I haveseen many brought to Christ because of the love of God. Besides, if I werebig enough and bad enough,
; ; ;nbs p; I could scare many people into doing thingsthat have nothing to do with a truthful response.I could scare my wife into giving me sex. I cannot scare my wife into loving me. NEITHER CAN GOD. 

JD



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 11:30:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



Yes, Ido see the point. But did he make this statement ? Did he make this statement as a prophet of God? Is this a statement of faith for the Mormon religion? The prophets of old were not inspired in their daily comings and goings. I am sure they spoke and id things that were not in line with truth or even practicalities. 

Jdcd:The Mormons claim that their prophets are always correct.I am not aware of any true prophet in the bible making any outrageous claims-it you know of any I would like see your info.God is known for truth so are his men-yet we are seen as liars and their lies as truth-especially by those whom claim Christianity. You know the 'God loves everybody crowd'. Yet Adam Clark (A very powerful evangelist circuit rider)said thatin all his years of preachinghe knew of only one person to come to God after hearing the love message-Preaching fear of God led to many repenting to Christ.


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Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

OhI see the "NATURal" course of events was ARTIFICIAL Insemination??

The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood- was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers. Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 8:115

"...I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, also my Saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it" (Journal of Discourses, Heber C. Kimball, 8:211).

"Christ was Begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.547).

"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.742). Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)?DAVEH: What I meant is that I do not know specifically how it was accomplished other than by the power of the HG, but I do think it can be accomplished via means that are not sexual in the physical sense that you are insisting it be. For instance, today artificial insemination is a very common and popular method of impregnating cattle that have never been in physical contact. As I see it, if cattle can reproduce in a natural fashion (in other words.not needing miraculous, supernatural or black magic activity) without physically sexual contact, I don't know why you think the Lord could not do what needed to be done to alter Mary's genetic code (I know that is a bit too simplified.or whatever needed doing to allow her to conceive as a
virgin) without having a sexual experience with her. This is very simple, Dean, and I don't know why you cannot understand what I am telling you. FTR once again: I do not believe God had physical sex with Mary. Nor does LDS theology teach such. Dean Moore wrote:

cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)? According to the English language it means that it could or could not be sexual.Now we have it as (1)Natural conception,(2) Genetic conception,(3)back to natural as Mary isn't a virgin,(4)May or may not be "necessary sexual".Full of crap!(though not necessarily sexual) whereby the genetic makeup of our Heavenly Father was combined with Mary'sgenetic makeup to bring forth a child in as natural a fashion as science now teaches. LDS theology teaches that Mary was a virgin.considering how LDS folks think or believe. Probably the most extremely opinionated person quoted was OrsonPratt in The Seer, which was a highly speculative book based on OP's opinions. Despite being an LDS leader, his opinions are no substitute for official doctrine, which is found in the Standard Works . --
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

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Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Why did the father have to come into the world and what was it he did?

''When the time came that His first-born, the Savior, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Savior was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me.'' (Journal of Discourses Vol. 4 page 218)

Do words mean anything ro Mormons?
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)?DAVEH: What I meant is that I do not know specifically how it was accomplished other than by the power of the HG, but I do think it can be accomplished via means that are not sexual in the physical sense that you are insisting it be. For instance, today artificial insemination is a very common and popular method of impregnating cattle that have never been in physical contact. As I see it, if cattle can reproduce in a natural fashion (in other words.not needing miraculous, supernatural or black magic activity) without physically sexual contact, I don't know why you think the Lord could not do what needed to be done to alter Mary's genetic code (I know that is a bit too simplified.or whatever needed doing to allow her to conceive as a
virgin) without having a sexual experience with her. This is very simple, Dean, and I don't know why you cannot understand what I am telling you. FTR once again: I do not believe God had physical sex with Mary. Nor does LDS theology teach such. Dean Moore wrote:

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Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter


Shore sounds like good advice to me.

Jd-Original Message-From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:45:00 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



cd: My question is-How could any Mormon not know this is common knowledge for them. Yet we have one that claims to never have heard this or any of the informationI have shared. Mormon crap indeed. Be shore to stand by untruth till the end JD-Tie yourself tightly to the sinking ship while you can by helping him cover up truth.




- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/23/2005 12:52:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter


Here we see it could not be a TEST TUBE:
"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742). 

"Christ was Begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.547). 

What could this literal flesh refer to in contrast to "as well as in the spirit"?
Joseph Fielding Smith "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended by any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit" (Religious Truths Defined, p.44). 

Fathered by FLESH?
Carfred Broderick (Mormon author) writes: "God is a procreating personage of flesh and bone...latter-day prophets have made it clear that despite what it says in Matthew 1:20, the Holy Ghost was not the father of Jesus...The Savior was fathered by a personage of flesh and bone" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn, 1967, p.100-101).

How does one pass the seed?
"The Father had a Son, a natural Son, his own literal Seed, the Offspring of his body" (Bruce McConkie, The Promised Messiah, pg.355). 

"There is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord's coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is just that simple" (The Promised Messiah, pg.468). 

'' l believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Savior of the World; for He is the Only Begotten of the Father which could not have been if the Father did not actually beget him in person''. (Young Journal of Discourses Vol. 1 page 238)

What is the difference?
''When the time came that His first-born, the Savior, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Savior was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me.'' (Journal of Discourses Vol. 4 page 218) 

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7). 

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers" (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, 8:115). 

"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.742). 

"Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of man and that man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18)Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

So if it does not specifically say sex or intercourse it can't refer to such?

Please show us where the Bible says "God is a man"
Please show us where the bible says God is "one in purpose"

Why does your "god" have an erection?
Just one of his body parts and bodily passions?
who is the recipient of his "bodily passions"?Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: OK Dean.Kevin has posted quite a bit of mat

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

I was wondering why it got so quiet...Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

JD and Daveh you have accused me of being wrong on many things -and now Kevin sends proof -JD I am waiting on your apologies.

- Original Message - 

From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 9:36:08 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

AnswerPappa had sex with Mama, and your point was 

Again, "unique" as in one of a kind is a better translation of the Greek word you see as "begotten."
He is God's eternal Son and , as such, was not born into Sonship (speaking of the incarnation). He has always been the Son. 

JD-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:38:19 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Begotten has nothing at all to do with the birth of Jesus, folks. Good thing I stick around orsome of you would really get confused !!

Maybe you could answer this SUNDAY SCHOOL question, or is it too advanced for you?
Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten?

ANSWER _
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Begotten has nothing at all to do with the birth of Jesus, folks. Good thing I stick around orsome of you would really get confused !!

Jd -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:10:56 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Chidren are NOT Begotten in a Test Tube.

Jesus was the ONLY Begotten of the Father!
QUESTION 
How are Children Begotten
Can you answer this DaveH?
Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.net wrote:
. cd: Daveh you big cry baby-Claiming I am a liar after all the backstabbing comments-By your standards then- when have I ever backstabbed-show me proof or ask for forgiveness. As I understand the below-theunion between God and Mary was natural-then you say it was a genetic testtube type babby-Then your prophet (seer)Orson Pratt whom Mormons claim arenever wrong (remember the brain washing of having to repeat over and over"the prophet is never wrong") said she wasn't a virgin. Have you ever heardof blasphemy(ie.accusing God of sin)?You and your cult are full of poop youare a stench in the nostrils of God -a "fart" best describes you and yourcult.  The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of ourchildren;  it was the result of natural action(though not necessarily sexual) whereby  the genetic makeup of our Heavenly Father was combined with Mary'sgeneticmakeup to bring forth a child in as natural a fashion as science now  teaches.  LDS theology teaches that Mary was a virgin.considering how LDS folks think or believe.   Probably the most extremely opinionated person quoted was OrsonPrattin The Seer, which was a highly speculative book based on OP's opinions. Despite being an LDS leader, his opinions are no substitute for official  doctrine, which is found in the Standard Works. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

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Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. 
		 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

God said NONE of Samuels words fell to the fround
Please don't tell me about someone else show me Samuels ERRORS

Jetremiah was the MOUTHPIECE of God
Show us his shortcomings, There is plenty of material having to do wioth theses guys surely there is something you can find, 

Samuel had NO words fall, you say but Samsom?
Sort of likeWhen did you get saved, you say my car is blue.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated?
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?
I gave you Abraham, Isaac, King David, Samson and Jonah.King Saul and Solomon were God's choice, as well. My point being that men of God, chosen and used by the Great GodAlmighty, were no more perfect in life than anyone else. Were Samuel and Jeremiah perfect? Hardly. There is none righteous, nonot one --- a statment that most surely was true before the Cross. 

Jd-Original Message-From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:29:54 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter








- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 9:37:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



I have alreadyproven my point. Sorry you missed it. 

JD

You have proven no point-just given half truth of God word.-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:02:33 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter




Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did?

1 Sam 3 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated?
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



-Original Message-From: Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:49:33 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter




Are you saying that the Mormon church has an official position on their prophets that teaches them to be infallible in all that they say and do? I don't think so. A little proof, please. Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did? I don't think so. I won't ask for proof, here, because you could not possibly give such proof. As far as Adam Clark's testimony is concerned, well, two things -- where did he say this and, secondly, if he meant to preach the value of a angry God gospel -- then, in that, he departed from the truth and should not have been preaching to anyone. I haveseen many brought to Christ because of the love of God. Besides, if I werebig enough and bad enough, ; ; ;nbs p; I could scare many people into doing thingsthat have nothing to do with a truthful response.I could scare my wife into giving me sex. I cannot scare my wife into loving me. NEITHER CAN GOD. 

JD



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 11:30:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



Yes, Ido see the point. But did he make this statement ? Did he make this statement as a prophet of God? Is this a statement of faith for the Mormon religion? The prophets of old were not inspired in their daily comings and goings. I am sure they spoke and id things that were not in line with truth or even practicalities. 

Jdcd:The Mormons claim that their prophets are always correct.I am not aware of any true prophet in the bible making any outrageous claims-it you know of any I would like see your info.God is known for truth so are his men-yet we are seen as liars and their lies as truth-especially by those whom claim Christianity. You know the 'God loves everybody crowd'. Yet Adam Clark (A very powerful evangelist circuit rider)said thatin all his years of preachinghe knew of only one person to come to God after hearing the love message-Preaching fear of God led to many repenting to Christ.


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		 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Are you saying then that you too believe he had SEX with Mary?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

You apparently care how God accomplished the virgin birth of Christ -- so how did he do it , deegan? Were there organic differences between Christ and ourselves? Was Mary only the "oven" for baby Jesus -- then why the lineage statements?

Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:22:20 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Why did the father have to come into the world and what was it he did?

Do words mean anything ro Mormons?
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)?DAVEH: What I meant is that I do not know specifically how it was accomplished other than by the power of the HG, but I do think it can be accomplished via means that are not sexual in the physical sense that you are insisting it be. For instance, today artificial insemination is a very common and popular method of impregnating cattle that have never been in physical contact. As I see it, if cattle can reproduce in a natural fashion (in other words.not needing miraculous, supernatural or black magic activity) without physically sexual contact, I don't know why you think the Lord could not do what needed to be done to alter Mary's
genetic code (I know that is a bit too simplified. or whatever needed doing to allow her to conceive as a virgin) without having a sexual experience with her. This is very simple, Dean, and I don't know why you cannot understand what I am telling you. FTR once again: I do not believe God had physical sex with Mary. Nor does LDS theology teach such. Dean Moore wrote:

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Please answer the question and do not avoid by steering away from it.

Why did the LDS god come into the world, to do what with Mary?
Any reasonable person knows what these words mean. There is only one reasonable answer.
That is why you avoid the reasonable conclusion and just like DH offer no other reasonable alternative:

'' l believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Savior of the World; for He is the Only Begotten of the Father which could not have been if the Father did not actually beget him in person''. (Young Journal of Discourses Vol. 1 page 238)

Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:22:20 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Why did the father have to come into the world and what was it he did?

Do words mean anything ro Mormons?
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)?DAVEH: What I meant is that I do not know specifically how it was accomplished other than by the power of the HG, but I do think it can be accomplished via means that are not sexual in the physical sense that you are insisting it be. For instance, today artificial insemination is a very common and popular method of impregnating cattle that have never been in physical contact. As I see it, if cattle can reproduce in a natural fashion (in other words.not needing miraculous, supernatural or black magic activity) without physically sexual contact, I don't know why you think the Lord could not do what needed to be done to alter Mary's
genetic code (I know that is a bit too simplified. or whatever needed doing to allow her to conceive as a virgin) without having a sexual experience with her. This is very simple, Dean, and I don't know why you cannot understand what I am telling you. FTR once again: I do not believe God had physical sex with Mary. Nor does LDS theology teach such. Dean Moore wrote:

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Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter


You miss my point, once again.I am interested in your views on the "how of the virgin birth - curiosity has the best of me. I am not interested in JS and Quakers on the moon.  and neither is anyone else. The foundation of the Mormon religion is works salvationism. You guys want to talk about lesser important issues than that, knock yourself out. 

JD




-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:32:48 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



God said NONE of Samuels words fell to the fround
Please don't tell me about someone else show me Samuels ERRORS

Jetremiah was the MOUTHPIECE of God
Show us his shortcomings, There is plenty of material having to do wioth theses guys surely there is something you can find, 

Samuel had NO words fall, you say but Samsom?
Sort of likeWhen did you get saved, you say my car is blue.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated? 
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?
I gave you Abraham, Isaac, King David, Samson and Jonah.King Saul and Solomon were God's choice, as well. My point being that men of God, chosen and used by the Great GodAlmighty, were no more perfect in life than anyone else. Were Samuel and Jeremiah perfect? Hardly. There is none righteous, nonot one --- a statment that most surely was true before the Cross. 

Jd-Original Message-From: Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:29:54 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter








- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 9:37:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



I have alreadyproven my point. Sorry you missed it. 

JD

You have proven no point-just given half truth of God word.-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:02:33 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter




Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did?

1 Sam 3 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated?
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



-Original Message-From: Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:49:33 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter




Are you saying that the Mormon church has an official position on their prophets that teaches them to be infallible in all that they say and do? I don't think so. A little proof, please. Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did? I don't think so. I won't ask for proof, here, because you could not possibly give such proof. As far as Adam Clark's testimony is concerned, well, two things -- where did he say this and, secondly, if he meant to preach the value of a angry God gospel -- then, in that, he departed from the truth and should not have been preaching to anyone. I haveseen many brought to Christ because of the love of God. Besides, if I werebig eno
ugh and bad enough, ; ; ;nbs p; I could scare many people into doing thingsthat have nothing to do with a truthful response.I could scare my wife into giving me sex. I cannot scare my wife into loving me. NEITHER CAN GOD. 

JD



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 11:30:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



Yes, Ido see the point. But did he make this statement ? Did he make this statement as a prophet of God? Is this a statement of faith for the Mormon religion? The prophets of old were not inspired in their daily comings and goings. I am sure they spoke and id things that were not in line with truth or even practicalities. 

Jdcd:The Mormons claim that their prophets are always correct.I am not aware of any true prophet in the bible making any outrageous claims-it you know of any I would like see your info.God is known for truth so are his men-yet we are seen as liars and their lies as truth-especially by those whom claim Christianity. You know the 'God loves everybody crowd'. Yet Adam Clark (A very powerful evangelist circuit rider)said thatin all his years of preachinghe knew of only one person to come to God after hearing the love message-Preaching fear of God led to many repenting to Christ.


Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. 


Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

I am not saying anything, deegan. Are you going to answer my questions or not?

Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:34:29 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Are you saying then that you too believe he had SEX with Mary?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:22:20 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Why did the father have to come into the world and what was it he did?

Do words mean anything ro Mormons?
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)?DAVEH: What I meant is that I do not know specifically how it was accomplished other than by the power of the HG, but I do think it can be accomplished via means that are not sexual in the physical sense that you are insisting it be. For instance, today artificial insemination is a very common and popular method of impregnating cattle that have never been in physical contact. As I see it, if cattle can reproduce in a natural fashion (in other words.not needing miraculous, supernatural or black magic activity) without physically sexual contact, I don't know why you think the Lord could not do what needed to be done to alter Mary's genetic code (I know that is a bit too simplified.
or whatever needed doing to allow her to conceive as a virgin) without having a sexual experience with her. This is very simple, Dean, and I don't know why you cannot understand what I am telling you. FTR once again: I do not believe God had physical sex with Mary. Nor does LDS theology teach such. Dean Moore wrote:

cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)? According to the English language it means that it could or could not be sexual.Now we have it as (1)Natural conception,(2) Genetic conception,(3)back to natural as Mary isn't a virgin,(4)May or may not be "necessary sexual".Full of crap!(though not necessarily sexual) whereby the genetic makeup of our Heavenly Father was combined with Mary'sgenetic makeup to bring forth a child in as natural a fashion as science now teaches. LDS theology teaches that Mary was a virgin.considering how LDS folks think or believe. Probably the most extremely opinionated person quoted was OrsonPratt in The Seer, which was a highly speculative book based on OP's opinions. Despite being an
LDS leader, his opinions are no substitute for official doctrine, which is found in the Standard Works . --
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Please answer the question and do not avoid by steering away from it.

-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:42:05 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Please answer the question and do not avoid by steering away from it.

Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:22:20 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Why did the father have to come into the world and what was it he did?

Do words mean anything ro Mormons?
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)?DAVEH: What I meant is that I do not know specifically how it was accomplished other than by the power of the HG, but I do think it can be accomplished via means that are not sexual in the physical sense that you are insisting it be. For instance, today artificial insemination is a very common and popular method of impregnating cattle that have never been in physical contact. As I see it, if cattle can reproduce in a natural fashion (in other words.not needing miraculous, supernatural or black magic activity) without physically sexual contact, I don't know why you think the Lord could not do what needed to be done to alter Mary's genetic code (I know that is a bit too simplified.
or whatever needed doing to allow her to conceive as a virgin) without having a sexual experience with her. This is very simple, Dean, and I don't know why you cannot understand what I am telling you. FTR once again: I do not believe God had physical sex with Mary. Nor does LDS theology teach such. Dean Moore wrote:

cd; What do you mean(though not necessarily sexual)? According to the English language it means that it could or could not be sexual.Now we have it as (1)Natural conception,(2) Genetic conception,(3)back to natural as Mary isn't a virgin,(4)May or may not be "necessary sexual".Full of crap!(though not necessarily sexual) whereby the genetic makeup of our Heavenly Father was combined with Mary'sgenetic makeup to bring forth a child in as natural a fashion as science now teaches. LDS theology teaches that Mary was a virgin.considering how LDS folks think or believe. Probably the most extremely opinionated person quoted was OrsonPratt in The Seer, which was a highly speculative book based on OP's opinions. Despite being an
LDS leader, his opinions are no substitute for official doctrine, which is found in the Standard Works . --
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

My car is white![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



You miss my point, once again.I am interested in your views on the "how of the virgin birth - curiosity has the best of me. I am not interested in JS and Quakers on the moon.  and neither is anyone else. The foundation of the Mormon religion is works salvationism. You guys want to talk about lesser important issues than that, knock yourself out. 

JD




-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:32:48 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



God said NONE of Samuels words fell to the fround
Please don't tell me about someone else show me Samuels ERRORS

Jetremiah was the MOUTHPIECE of God
Show us his shortcomings, There is plenty of material having to do wioth theses guys surely there is something you can find, 

Samuel had NO words fall, you say but Samsom?
Sort of likeWhen did you get saved, you say my car is blue.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated? 
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?
I gave you Abraham, Isaac, King David, Samson and Jonah.King Saul and Solomon were God's choice, as well. My point being that men of God, chosen and used by the Great GodAlmighty, were no more perfect in life than anyone else. Were Samuel and Jeremiah perfect? Hardly. There is none righteous, nonot one --- a statment that most surely was true before the Cross. 

Jd-Original Message-From: Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:29:54 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter








- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 9:37:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



I have alreadyproven my point. Sorry you missed it. 

JD

You have proven no point-just given half truth of God word.-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:02:33 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter




Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did?

1 Sam 3 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

Perhaps you have some errors that Samuel propagated?
Perhaps you have some errors that Jeremiah propagated, seeing that God said he would be His mouth?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



-Original Message-From: Dean Moore cd_moore@earthlink.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:49:33 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter




Are you saying that the Mormon church has an official position on their prophets that teaches them to be infallible in all that they say and do? I don't think so. A little proof, please. Are you saying that the biblical prophets were infallible in all that they said and did? I don't think so. I won't ask for proof, here, because you could not possibly give such proof. As far as Adam Clark's testimony is concerned, well, two things -- where did he say this and, secondly, if he meant to preach the value of a angry God gospel -- then, in that, he departed from the truth and should not have been preaching to anyone. I haveseen many brought to Christ because of the love of God. Besides, if
 I werebig eno ugh and bad enough, ; ; ;nbs p; I could scare many people into doing thingsthat have nothing to do with a truthful response.I could scare my wife into giving me sex. I cannot scare my wife into loving me. NEITHER CAN GOD. 

JD



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 10/22/2005 11:30:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter



Yes, Ido see the point. But did he make this statement ? Did he make this statement as a prophet of God? Is this a statement of faith for the Mormon religion? The prophets of old were not inspired in their daily comings and goings. I am sure they spoke and id things that were not in line with truth or even practicalities. 

Jdcd:The Mormons claim that their prophets are always correct.I am not aware of any true prophet in the bible making any outrageous claims-it you know of any I would like see your info.God is known for truth so are his men-yet we are seen as liars and their lies as truth-especially by those whom claim Christianity. You know the 'God loves everybody crowd'. Yet Adam Clark (A very powerful evangelist circuit rider)said thatin all his years of preachinghe knew of only one person to come to God after hearing the love message-Preaching fear of God led to many repenting to Christ.


Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. 


Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. 
		 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter