Re: [U2] [AD] User timeout question
On 5/2/2012 12:21 AM, Randy Styka wrote: It's been a long time since I've posted about this, but our company wrote and has sold a product called LOGMON for many years (15? I don't even remember). This software works at the Unix level to monitor usage of the users on a system, actually monitoring cpu usage, not keystrokes. And so if a user is idle, you can decide what to do about it, via a script that is run. In a Unidata/Universe environment, a signal can be sent that an application will see and it can release the locks and close the user out gracefully. But there are other approaches too. When combined with our Peek software, a script can be run to generate keystrokes on behalf of that user. So...you can set up a script that sends a series of predetermined keystrokes to back the user out of the application, and thus no coding is required in the specific application. (This assumes there's a standard set of keystrokes that you can user for this purpose, like a series of escape characters then a Q or somesuch.) Anyway, there are a lot of options. Check out Logmon and/or Peek at http://www.computronics.com Free trial versions are available for download. As I said I haven't posted about this in years as I know users who are bothered by commercial plugs, hence the [AD] tag above. There are certainly other ways to do it but this is often the path of least resistance for users who want to solve this problem without changes to their programs. And it is in use by a number of U2 sites (and plenty of other Unix sites). Note that we are Unix/Linux only. We don't do Windows ;-) Thanks! Randy Probably not doing much with PR1MOS these days... Peek, Poke and LogMon have indeed been around for years, and Computronics has a solid reputation. -- Allen Egerton; aeger...@pobox.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [AD] User timeout question
Wow memories. I'll speak up and agree with Allen -- solid products in the Pr1me world. 15 years is definitely an underestimate. This is a forum where we know that seasoned tools bring proven value. Thanks for piping up Randy. --dawn Typed on a mobile keyboard On May 1, 2012, at 11:21 PM, Randy Styka ra...@computronics.com wrote: It's been a long time since I've posted about this, but our company wrote and has sold a product called LOGMON for many years (15? I don't even remember). This software works at the Unix level to monitor usage of the users on a system, actually monitoring cpu usage, not keystrokes. And so if a user is idle, you can decide what to do about it, via a script that is run. In a Unidata/Universe environment, a signal can be sent that an application will see and it can release the locks and close the user out gracefully. But there are other approaches too. When combined with our Peek software, a script can be run to generate keystrokes on behalf of that user. So...you can set up a script that sends a series of predetermined keystrokes to back the user out of the application, and thus no coding is required in the specific application. (This assumes there's a standard set of keystrokes that you can user for this purpose, like a series of escape characters then a Q or somesuch.) Anyway, there are a lot of options. Check out Logmon and/or Peek at http://www.computronics.com Free trial versions are available for download. As I said I haven't posted about this in years as I know users who are bothered by commercial plugs, hence the [AD] tag above. There are certainly other ways to do it but this is often the path of least resistance for users who want to solve this problem without changes to their programs. And it is in use by a number of U2 sites (and plenty of other Unix sites). Note that we are Unix/Linux only. We don't do Windows ;-) Thanks! Randy ++ | Computronics Randy Styka, ra...@computronics.com | | 4N165 Wood Dale Road Phone: 630/941-7767| | Addison, Illinois 60101 USA Fax:630/941-7714| |www:http://www.computronics.com | | for product information: i...@computronics.com | | for product support: supp...@computronics.com| ++ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
For a webapp, does an animated gif really detract processing time? The gif should be running client side, And the processing of the app would be running server side. Maybe you could only show the gif while The app is waiting for the server to push some more data? George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:38 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT It's better for peace of mind to know that the computer thinks it's doing something Rather than wondering Is it DOING something -Original Message- From: Dawn Wolthuis dw...@tincat-group.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT Well, I get it even if it seems foolish at first blush -- it's all about he user experience. --dawn On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Laura and Dawn, This reminds me of a program I wrote about 20 years ago for a multilevel marketing company. Its job was to audit a seller's downline, which in many cases ran into thousands or tens of thousands of transactions. For some larger sellers it ran for several minutes. The users insisted on seeing what progress it was making, and settled on a whirly-gig. I explained that it would only slow the process down, but they didn't care. They were quite willing to sacrifice speed for a stupid little character twirling around. Go figure... Regards, Charlie Noah ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
You are correct that the animated gif does not harm the processing time on the server. I think it is obnoxious to the user when it is there for too short a time, so I hauled some out and stopped putting them in, figuring we will wait to see where they are really needed once we do volume testing. I have not researched it to see if there are any studies that suggest that an animated gif that flashes quickly provides a bad user experience. My UX testing in this case was not formal -- it was me going oh, yuck, I don't want that gif to be there for so short a time. You are right that this is not of the same ilk regarding performance. Yes, it only shows while the server is doing something -- when a process returns it hides the gif. --dawn On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:21 AM, George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.comwrote: For a webapp, does an animated gif really detract processing time? The gif should be running client side, And the processing of the app would be running server side. Maybe you could only show the gif while The app is waiting for the server to push some more data? George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:38 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT It's better for peace of mind to know that the computer thinks it's doing something Rather than wondering Is it DOING something -Original Message- From: Dawn Wolthuis dw...@tincat-group.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT Well, I get it even if it seems foolish at first blush -- it's all about he user experience. --dawn On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Laura and Dawn, This reminds me of a program I wrote about 20 years ago for a multilevel marketing company. Its job was to audit a seller's downline, which in many cases ran into thousands or tens of thousands of transactions. For some larger sellers it ran for several minutes. The users insisted on seeing what progress it was making, and settled on a whirly-gig. I explained that it would only slow the process down, but they didn't care. They were quite willing to sacrifice speed for a stupid little character twirling around. Go figure... Regards, Charlie Noah ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Dawn M. Wolthuis Take and give some delight today ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
I use two different onesFor general applications, I have a perpetual melting ice cube, and for financial transactions I use a stack of money being fanned. Sometimes you focus on the image itself and the wait seems like years, other times, you Can work on something else, and know it's completed when the image disappers. Nothings worse than having the application finish, and you keep waiting because you didn't Realize it updated, especially if the layout of the page doesn't change, just The page data. Maybe you could use a javascript timer to unhide the image after x number of seconds goes by. So if it updates in less than 5 seconds, no image, after 5 seconds you get a working icon. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:08 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT You are correct that the animated gif does not harm the processing time on the server. I think it is obnoxious to the user when it is there for too short a time, so I hauled some out and stopped putting them in, figuring we will wait to see where they are really needed once we do volume testing. I have not researched it to see if there are any studies that suggest that an animated gif that flashes quickly provides a bad user experience. My UX testing in this case was not formal -- it was me going oh, yuck, I don't want that gif to be there for so short a time. You are right that this is not of the same ilk regarding performance. Yes, it only shows while the server is doing something -- when a process returns it hides the gif. --dawn ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
How about something like this? This way it doesn't get displayed for the
quick updates.
function doServerUpdate() {
var serverUpdateTimer = setTimeout(showServerUpdateWait(), 5000);
...
hideServerUpdateWait();
clearTimeout(serverUpdateTimer);
}
David A. Green
(480) 813-1725
DAG Consulting
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 7:08 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
You are correct that the animated gif does not harm the processing time on
the server. I think it is obnoxious to the user when it is there for too
short a time, so I hauled some out and stopped putting them in, figuring we
will wait to see where they are really needed once we do volume testing. I
have not researched it to see if there are any studies that suggest that an
animated gif that flashes quickly provides a bad user experience. My UX
testing in this case was not formal -- it was me going oh, yuck, I don't
want that gif to be there for so short a time.
You are right that this is not of the same ilk regarding performance. Yes,
it only shows while the server is doing something -- when a process returns
it hides the gif. --dawn
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:21 AM, George Gallen
ggal...@wyanokegroup.comwrote:
For a webapp, does an animated gif really detract processing time? The
gif should be running client side, And the processing of the app
would be running server side. Maybe you could only show the gif while
The app is waiting for the server to push some more data?
George
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:38 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
It's better for peace of mind to know that the computer thinks it's
doing something Rather than wondering Is it DOING something
-Original Message-
From: Dawn Wolthuis dw...@tincat-group.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
Well, I get it even if it seems foolish at first blush -- it's all
about he user experience. --dawn On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM,
Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Laura and Dawn,
This reminds me of a program I wrote about 20 years ago for a
multilevel marketing company. Its job was to audit a seller's
downline, which in many cases ran into thousands or tens of thousands
of transactions. For some larger sellers it ran for several minutes.
The users insisted on seeing what progress it was making, and settled
on a whirly-gig. I explained that it would only slow the process
down, but they didn't care. They were quite willing to sacrifice speed
for a stupid little character twirling around.
Go figure...
Regards,
Charlie Noah
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
--
Dawn M. Wolthuis
Take and give some delight today
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
Good idea! I was just leaving this out at this point so I didn't clutter up
the code unnecessarily, figuring I would only put these in where I know
they are needed. But in cases where I'm not sure, this seems like a good
approach. Thanks! --dawn
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:13 AM, David A. Green dgr...@dagconsulting.comwrote:
How about something like this? This way it doesn't get displayed for the
quick updates.
function doServerUpdate() {
var serverUpdateTimer = setTimeout(showServerUpdateWait(), 5000);
...
hideServerUpdateWait();
clearTimeout(serverUpdateTimer);
}
David A. Green
(480) 813-1725
DAG Consulting
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 7:08 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
You are correct that the animated gif does not harm the processing time on
the server. I think it is obnoxious to the user when it is there for too
short a time, so I hauled some out and stopped putting them in, figuring we
will wait to see where they are really needed once we do volume testing. I
have not researched it to see if there are any studies that suggest that an
animated gif that flashes quickly provides a bad user experience. My UX
testing in this case was not formal -- it was me going oh, yuck, I don't
want that gif to be there for so short a time.
You are right that this is not of the same ilk regarding performance. Yes,
it only shows while the server is doing something -- when a process returns
it hides the gif. --dawn
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:21 AM, George Gallen
ggal...@wyanokegroup.comwrote:
For a webapp, does an animated gif really detract processing time? The
gif should be running client side, And the processing of the app
would be running server side. Maybe you could only show the gif while
The app is waiting for the server to push some more data?
George
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:38 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
It's better for peace of mind to know that the computer thinks it's
doing something Rather than wondering Is it DOING something
-Original Message-
From: Dawn Wolthuis dw...@tincat-group.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
Well, I get it even if it seems foolish at first blush -- it's all
about he user experience. --dawn On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM,
Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Laura and Dawn,
This reminds me of a program I wrote about 20 years ago for a
multilevel marketing company. Its job was to audit a seller's
downline, which in many cases ran into thousands or tens of thousands
of transactions. For some larger sellers it ran for several minutes.
The users insisted on seeing what progress it was making, and settled
on a whirly-gig. I explained that it would only slow the process
down, but they didn't care. They were quite willing to sacrifice speed
for a stupid little character twirling around.
Go figure...
Regards,
Charlie Noah
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
--
Dawn M. Wolthuis
Take and give some delight today
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
--
Dawn M. Wolthuis
Take and give some delight today
___
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http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
That's been the default mechanism for years in ASP.NET Ajax (just
another free framework). Your progress panel is set to only go visible
if an ajax request doesn't return in x seconds.
Each request needs to be considered for tuning. The response to a
simple data validation is expected to only take a second or so, but
populating a grid may be expected to take much longer. Then again if
you're not using session pooling and a bunch of users hit your server,
then even the simplest validation could take some number of seconds.
So you don't want to hardcode to turn off the progress animation.
Consider that people get uptight and start re-clicking if they don't
get immediate gratification - that's just the broadband world we live
in even if the expectation isn't realistic. So it's not unreasonable
to show progress entertainment within 1-2 seconds of a request, just
to pre-empt that nervous clicking.
Of course, if you expect that a transaction will take longer than a
few seconds, tell the user (just don't use a modal form!), and for
larger reports consider more asynchronous methods which don't require
the user to sit there with a progress indicator in the first place.
HTH
T
(Someone really should have changed the subject of this thread...)
From: Dawn Wolthuis
Good idea! I was just leaving this out at this point so I didn't
clutter up
the code unnecessarily, figuring I would only put these in where I
know they are needed. But in cases where I'm not sure, this seems
like
a good approach. Thanks! --dawn
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:13 AM, David A. Green wrote:
How about something like this? This way it doesn't get displayed
for
the quick updates.
function doServerUpdate() {
var serverUpdateTimer = setTimeout(showServerUpdateWait(),
5000);
...
hideServerUpdateWait();
clearTimeout(serverUpdateTimer);
}
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
Another very simple and subtle thing you can do is make use of the
default OS pointer icons via javascript:
document.body.style.cursor = 'wait'; // hourglass, spinning circle,
etc.
document.body.style.cursor = 'default'; // arrow
I change the pointer for AJAX calls when the user should wait for
results from before doing something else, and additionally pop up an
animated gif for the calls I know will take more than 3 or 4 seconds.
It's pretty clear to users that they shouldn't attempt to click on
things when the mouse pointer is not an arrow or hand.
-John
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:22 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
Good idea! I was just leaving this out at this point so I didn't clutter
up the code unnecessarily, figuring I would only put these in where I
know they are needed. But in cases where I'm not sure, this seems like a
good approach. Thanks! --dawn
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:13 AM, David A. Green
dgr...@dagconsulting.comwrote:
How about something like this? This way it doesn't get displayed for
the quick updates.
function doServerUpdate() {
var serverUpdateTimer = setTimeout(showServerUpdateWait(), 5000);
...
hideServerUpdateWait();
clearTimeout(serverUpdateTimer);
}
David A. Green
(480) 813-1725
DAG Consulting
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dawn
Wolthuis
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 7:08 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
You are correct that the animated gif does not harm the processing
time on the server. I think it is obnoxious to the user when it is
there for too short a time, so I hauled some out and stopped putting
them in, figuring we will wait to see where they are really needed
once we do volume testing. I have not researched it to see if there
are any studies that suggest that an animated gif that flashes quickly
provides a bad user experience. My UX testing in this case was not
formal -- it was me going oh, yuck, I don't want that gif to be there
for so short a time.
You are right that this is not of the same ilk regarding performance.
Yes, it only shows while the server is doing something -- when a
process returns it hides the gif. --dawn
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:21 AM, George Gallen
ggal...@wyanokegroup.comwrote:
For a webapp, does an animated gif really detract processing time?
The gif should be running client side, And the processing of the
app would be running server side. Maybe you could only show the gif
while The app is waiting for the server to push some more data?
George
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:38 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
It's better for peace of mind to know that the computer thinks it's
doing something Rather than wondering Is it DOING something
-Original Message-
From: Dawn Wolthuis dw...@tincat-group.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT
Well, I get it even if it seems foolish at first blush -- it's all
about he user experience. --dawn On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM,
Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Laura and Dawn,
This reminds me of a program I wrote about 20 years ago for a
multilevel marketing company. Its job was to audit a seller's
downline, which in many cases ran into thousands or tens of
thousands of transactions. For some larger sellers it ran for
several minutes.
The users insisted on seeing what progress it was making, and
settled on a whirly-gig. I explained that it would only slow the
process down, but they didn't care. They were quite willing to
sacrifice speed
for a stupid little character twirling around.
Go figure...
Regards,
Charlie Noah
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
--
Dawn M. Wolthuis
Take and give some delight today
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
--
Dawn M. Wolthuis
Take and give some delight today
___
U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Show processing to user via icons
I like this idea. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Hester Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:19 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT Another very simple and subtle thing you can do is make use of the default OS pointer icons via javascript: document.body.style.cursor = 'wait'; // hourglass, spinning circle, etc. document.body.style.cursor = 'default'; // arrow I change the pointer for AJAX calls when the user should wait for results from before doing something else, and additionally pop up an animated gif for the calls I know will take more than 3 or 4 seconds. It's pretty clear to users that they shouldn't attempt to click on things when the mouse pointer is not an arrow or hand. -John ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Show processing to user via icons
ModalPopups are, in my opinion, the cleanest solution since they lock the page from interaction by default and can be build and styled to look anyway you want. Unfortunately a huge percentage (thanks to the Symbol 9090s running wm6) of business handheld devices don't support ajax =( -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 1:23 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Show processing to user via icons I like this idea. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Hester Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:19 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] READU vs READ and CRT Another very simple and subtle thing you can do is make use of the default OS pointer icons via javascript: document.body.style.cursor = 'wait'; // hourglass, spinning circle, etc. document.body.style.cursor = 'default'; // arrow I change the pointer for AJAX calls when the user should wait for results from before doing something else, and additionally pop up an animated gif for the calls I know will take more than 3 or 4 seconds. It's pretty clear to users that they shouldn't attempt to click on things when the mouse pointer is not an arrow or hand. -John ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Attribute Problem
Hi. I think I have finally gone insane. I am having a problem with the attribute MATL.AMT. It calculates the extended amount on hand by taking the frozen material cost times the on hand amount. The problem is when I use F_MATL for the frozen material cost, MATL.AMT is good. When I use F-MATL for the frozen material cost, it returns 0 everytime. F_MATL and F-MATL are identical and if you list them both work fine. But when they are used in the calculation F_MATL works, but F-MATL. doesn't. Can anyone see what the problem is? ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 MATL.AMT Top of MATL.AMT in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 43 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: ON.HAND * F-MATL 003: MR25, 004: MATERIAL.AMT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F_MATL Top of F_MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. *** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F-MATL Top of F-MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Attribute Problem
Isn't the DICT at risk of treating the - in F-MATL as a minus? Just a thought. John -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:13 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Attribute Problem Hi. I think I have finally gone insane. I am having a problem with the attribute MATL.AMT. It calculates the extended amount on hand by taking the frozen material cost times the on hand amount. The problem is when I use F_MATL for the frozen material cost, MATL.AMT is good. When I use F-MATL for the frozen material cost, it returns 0 everytime. F_MATL and F-MATL are identical and if you list them both work fine. But when they are used in the calculation F_MATL works, but F-MATL. doesn't. Can anyone see what the problem is? ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 MATL.AMT Top of MATL.AMT in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 43 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: ON.HAND * F-MATL 003: MR25, 004: MATERIAL.AMT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F_MATL Top of F_MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. *** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F-MATL Top of F-MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Attribute Problem
I would guess that the calculation is trying to subtract MATL from F. Could it be enclosed in quotes or something? Curt Stewart TRI-SYS Consulting Integrated Multi-Value Business Solutions (p) 262-432-3897 (c) 262-227-9619 Real-World Solutions for Real-World Problems! www.tri-sysconsulting.com View my LinkedIn R Profile -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:13 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Attribute Problem Hi. I think I have finally gone insane. I am having a problem with the attribute MATL.AMT. It calculates the extended amount on hand by taking the frozen material cost times the on hand amount. The problem is when I use F_MATL for the frozen material cost, MATL.AMT is good. When I use F-MATL for the frozen material cost, it returns 0 everytime. F_MATL and F-MATL are identical and if you list them both work fine. But when they are used in the calculation F_MATL works, but F-MATL. doesn't. Can anyone see what the problem is? ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 MATL.AMT Top of MATL.AMT in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 43 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: ON.HAND * F-MATL 003: MR25, 004: MATERIAL.AMT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F_MATL Top of F_MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. *** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F-MATL Top of F-MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Attribute Problem
F minus Mail Are you confident the V processer is that brilliant that it can distinguish between a name and an operator ? -Original Message- From: Charles_Shaffer charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: [U2] Attribute Problem Hi. I think I have finally gone insane. I am having a problem with the attribute MATL.AMT. It calculates the xtended amount on hand by taking the frozen material cost times the on and amount. The problem is when I use F_MATL for the frozen material cost, MATL.AMT is ood. When I use F-MATL for the frozen material cost, it returns 0 verytime. F_MATL and F-MATL are identical and if you list them both work fine. But hen they are used in the calculation F_MATL works, but F-MATL. doesn't. an anyone see what the problem is? ** AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 MATL.AMT op of MATL.AMT in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 43 characters. --: P 01: V 02: ON.HAND * F-MATL 03: MR25, 04: MATERIAL.AMT 05: 13R 06: S ottom. ** AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F_MATL op of F_MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. --: P 01: V 02: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 03: MD5, 04: MATERIAL/UNIT 05: 13R 06: S ottom. *** AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F-MATL op of F-MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. --: P 01: V 02: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 03: MD5, 04: MATERIAL/UNIT 05: 13R 06: S ottom. harles Shaffer enior Analyst TN-Bower Corporation __ 2-Users mailing list 2-us...@listserver.u2ug.org ttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Attribute Problem
Not at this point. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation From: Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org, Date: 05/02/2012 02:24 PM Subject:Re: [U2] Attribute Problem Sent by:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org F minus Mail Are you confident the V processer is that brilliant that it can distinguish between a name and an operator ? -Original Message- From: Charles_Shaffer charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: [U2] Attribute Problem Hi. I think I have finally gone insane. I am having a problem with the attribute MATL.AMT. It calculates the xtended amount on hand by taking the frozen material cost times the on and amount. The problem is when I use F_MATL for the frozen material cost, MATL.AMT is ood. When I use F-MATL for the frozen material cost, it returns 0 verytime. F_MATL and F-MATL are identical and if you list them both work fine. But hen they are used in the calculation F_MATL works, but F-MATL. doesn't. an anyone see what the problem is? ** AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 MATL.AMT op of MATL.AMT in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 43 characters. --: P 01: V 02: ON.HAND * F-MATL 03: MR25, 04: MATERIAL.AMT 05: 13R 06: S ottom. ** AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F_MATL op of F_MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. --: P 01: V 02: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 03: MD5, 04: MATERIAL/UNIT 05: 13R 06: S ottom. *** AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F-MATL op of F-MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. --: P 01: V 02: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 03: MD5, 04: MATERIAL/UNIT 05: 13R 06: S ottom. harles Shaffer enior Analyst TN-Bower Corporation __ 2-Users mailing list 2-us...@listserver.u2ug.org ttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Show processing to user via icons
From: Holt, Jake ModalPopups are, in my opinion, the cleanest solution since they lock the page from interaction by default... Modal popups will lock the user on the popup and if the Ajax connection doesn't come back (locked READU, dead connection, license blocking, etc) you're going to have a very unhappy user because they can't get out of the trap. Maybe I missed something to your approach as you've obviously had some success? T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Show processing to user via icons
Most of my connections are handled through WCF so there is a built in RequestTimeout. That said, it's easily solved by putting a cancel button on the popup if it's a problem. I've never really had a problem with it unless the wheels totally come off and I doubt there are any solutions that work if that's the case. There is also the UpdateProgressPanel but I'm not sure that exists outside .net. This is exactly It's designed for, I think it's more clumsy they modalpopups though and you'd potentially have the same issue. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:19 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Show processing to user via icons From: Holt, Jake ModalPopups are, in my opinion, the cleanest solution since they lock the page from interaction by default... Modal popups will lock the user on the popup and if the Ajax connection doesn't come back (locked READU, dead connection, license blocking, etc) you're going to have a very unhappy user because they can't get out of the trap. Maybe I missed something to your approach as you've obviously had some success? T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Attribute Problem
can you DLIST a V type in UD to see how it's compiled? From: charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: 03-May-12 5:13 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Attribute Problem Hi. I think I have finally gone insane. I am having a problem with the attribute MATL.AMT. It calculates the extended amount on hand by taking the frozen material cost times the on hand amount. The problem is when I use F_MATL for the frozen material cost, MATL.AMT is good. When I use F-MATL for the frozen material cost, it returns 0 everytime. F_MATL and F-MATL are identical and if you list them both work fine. But when they are used in the calculation F_MATL works, but F-MATL. doesn't. Can anyone see what the problem is? ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 MATL.AMT Top of MATL.AMT in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 43 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: ON.HAND * F-MATL 003: MR25, 004: MATERIAL.AMT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F_MATL Top of F_MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. *** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F-MATL Top of F-MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Attribute Problem
You've already got the answer. Use F_MATL instead of F-MATL and stop thinking about it. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: 02 May 2012 20:13 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Attribute Problem Hi. I think I have finally gone insane. I am having a problem with the attribute MATL.AMT. It calculates the extended amount on hand by taking the frozen material cost times the on hand amount. The problem is when I use F_MATL for the frozen material cost, MATL.AMT is good. When I use F-MATL for the frozen material cost, it returns 0 everytime. F_MATL and F-MATL are identical and if you list them both work fine. But when they are used in the calculation F_MATL works, but F-MATL. doesn't. Can anyone see what the problem is? ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 MATL.AMT Top of MATL.AMT in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 43 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: ON.HAND * F-MATL 003: MR25, 004: MATERIAL.AMT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F_MATL Top of F_MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. *** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F-MATL Top of F-MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Click https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== cXO5UZqptIGHDy7!uJKtCfM2WwvnrwGEQlca1YcpG8Zdg== to report this email as spam. Epicor Software (UK) is a limited company registered in England Wales. Registration Number: 2338274. Registered Office: 6th Floor, One London Wall, London EC2Y 5EB This e-mail is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. Any views and/or opinions expressed in this e-mail are of the author only and do not represent the views of Epicor Software (UK) Limited or any other company within its group. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Attribute Problem
i can't remember ever using a dash in a dict, or wanting to. that there are two entries for the same dict kinda does imply whoever made it has already punted I think I have finally gone insane. welcome to MY world!!! ;-) -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Martin Braid Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:46 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Attribute Problem You've already got the answer. Use F_MATL instead of F-MATL and stop thinking about it. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: 02 May 2012 20:13 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Attribute Problem Hi. I think I have finally gone insane. I am having a problem with the attribute MATL.AMT. It calculates the extended amount on hand by taking the frozen material cost times the on hand amount. The problem is when I use F_MATL for the frozen material cost, MATL.AMT is good. When I use F-MATL for the frozen material cost, it returns 0 everytime. F_MATL and F-MATL are identical and if you list them both work fine. But when they are used in the calculation F_MATL works, but F-MATL. doesn't. Can anyone see what the problem is? ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 MATL.AMT Top of MATL.AMT in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 43 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: ON.HAND * F-MATL 003: MR25, 004: MATERIAL.AMT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. ** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F_MATL Top of F_MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. *** :AE DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18 F-MATL Top of F-MATL in DICT INVENTORY-LOCATION_18, 6 lines, 93 characters. *--: P 001: V 002: @ID; OCONV(@ID, G0*1); OCONV(@2, TINVENTORY-MASTER*18;X;66;66) 003: MD5, 004: MATERIAL/UNIT 005: 13R 006: S Bottom. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Click https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== cXO5UZqptIGHDy7!uJKtCfM2WwvnrwGEQlca1YcpG8Zdg== to report this email as spam. Epicor Software (UK) is a limited company registered in England Wales. Registration Number: 2338274. Registered Office: 6th Floor, One London Wall, London EC2Y 5EB This e-mail is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. Any views and/or opinions expressed in this e-mail are of the author only and do not represent the views of Epicor Software (UK) Limited or any other company within its group. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] User timeout question
I have tried adding TIMEOUT to the LOGIN paragraph and it fails to work. The trick, I found, is to add to the SB Setup Logon/Logto process. After I did that it works very well. Thanks again for the help. Bruce -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Rutherford, Marc Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 1:00 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] User timeout question On Unidata use TIMEOUT.This will logoff the session when inactive keyboard exceeds the desired time period. Marc Rutherford Principal Programmer Analyst Advanced Bionics LLC 661) 362 1754 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Lunt, Bruce Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 12:48 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] User timeout question I tried HELP AUTOLOGOUT but it was not there. Is this a recent command? We are running version 7.1 of Unidata. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 12:18 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] User timeout question HELP AUTOLOGOUT -Original Message- From: Lunt, Bruce bl...@shaklee.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 11:59 am Subject: [U2] User timeout question Hi All, e are having a problem with a particular user who is opening up a aintenance screen and then leaving the record in the locked state when he oes home. Is there a way to log him off the system (and unsetting locks) fter a certain amount of time has elapsed? hanks in advance, ruce tw we are running HPUX 11 on HP9000 with SB+ screens. __ 2-Users mailing list 2-us...@listserver.u2ug.org ttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
