Re: [U2] Universe error message 5000
005000 001 Monkey 002 Cock 003 Dog 004 Boar 005 Rat 006 Ox 007 Tiger 008 Rabbit 009 Dragon 010 Snake 011 Horse 012 Sheep ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] uv 2 ud
+1 Convert. Here is a strange one - i have a friend with a uv system that he cannot maintain - so he has asked me to do this. It needs transferring to a new machine and some changes making and maintained over the coming years. However my team has worked exclusively in ud for 10 years, so uv is rather rusty to say the least, and would not fit with our existing portfolio- what would people recommend, stick with it on uv and hopefully not make too many mistakes and try to learn fast, or convert the app to run on ud ? His uv livence is long out of maintenance so there is no financial reason to stick with uv. -Original Message- From: Symeon Breen syme...@gmail.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:47 am Subject: [U2] uv 2 ud Here is a strange one - i have a friend with a uv system that he cannot maintain - so he has asked me to do this. It needs transferring to a new machine and some changes making and maintained over the coming years. However my team has worked exclusively in ud for 10 years, so uv is rather rusty to say the least, and would not fit with our existing portfolio- what would people recommend, stick with it on uv and hopefully not make too many mistakes and try to learn fast, or convert the app to run on ud ? His uv livence is long out of maintenance so there is no financial reason to stick with uv. Thanks Symeon. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Universe PE
I tried to again go to the download link for the Universe PE. It lets me fill out the registration form, but then nothing downloads, I just get an email saying someone will contact me What's up? Will Johnson ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [AD] - U2] Uniobjects - What Is It?
In a message dated 5/20/2011 7:04:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dave...@gmail.com writes: [ad] We built a middle-ware connection using open source JavaPHP bridge after seeing Kevin do this hodge podge connection scheme using a COM UniObject at a CMUG meeting in Denver in 2009. Our middle-ware software is called U2WebLink and it manages the connections with Unidata or Universe using Apache Tomcat. U2WebLink comes with logging and monitor software to figure out what you web site is doing using graphs and user displayed grids. You'd might as well tell us how much. So how much? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Uniobjects - What Is It?
In a message dated 5/19/2011 9:43:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dmc...@imb.com.au writes: Have you seen the PHP PDO driver article on u2devzone.com? Although it is a 'build it yourself article', it does come with the source code so you should be able to just compile and use it. Head + Wall + Beating ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Error 4 22 from PHP exec of uv on AIX
LDR_CNTRL has to do with the settings for your temporary work space (as we used to call it) How much space to allocate for your process' heap and so on. Can you give a full PHP script showing how you got around this? I mean the entire script, just post it into the board here. -Original Message- From: John Thompson jthompson...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:46 am Subject: Re: [U2] Error 4 22 from PHP exec of uv on AIX Thanks for all of your replies. Thanks to Bob Woodward for the shell environment idea. Thanks to Kevin King for his help. Apache sets extra environment variables when compared to the shell of a regular user. One of these environment variables is called: LDR_CNTRL Apparently it has something to do with the way AIX handles the memory space. See: http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/javasdk/v6r0/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.java.doc.user.aix32.60/user/aix_ldr_cntrl_page_sizes.html Apache seems to set the following when it starts a session: LDR_CNTRL=MAXDATA=0x8000 If you set this to null in a php script, then Universe will run just fine. Anyone have any ideas on the proper use of LDR_CNTRL? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] LED editor for Universe
If they don't consume a seat, doesn't that also mean that they don't lock the program while editing it? If so, how do they work well in a multi-programmer environment? Again, at least these editors mentioned before don't require a telnet session, use UniObjects to access data from U2, and they don't look like they were developed in the 80's. Oh by the way, they all do colors. -Original Message- From: Doug Averch dave...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 12:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] LED editor for Universe Hi Keith: When I read your notes about another editor that is about 6,000 Basic lines long, I'm wonder if some us U2 programmers are Luddite's. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite for more information. Really, do we want to marginalize our talents by showing we can use a Basic editor that can do colors? I wrote one of these editors for Prime Information in 1980's based on what I saw using Revelation G. The source code for that editor is long since dead, thank goodness. My suggestion would be use BDT from Rocket Software, or mvDeveloper from Brian Leach Consulting, or XLr8Editor from U2Logic. The first two are FREE and the second one is $49.00 per year. Again, at least these editors mentioned before don't require a telnet session, use UniObjects to access data from U2, and they don't look like they were developed in the 80's. Oh by the way, they all do colors. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com/tools.html Birthplace for Eclipse based tools for U2 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Reliability doesn't raise enough issues to keep the list busy
In a message dated 5/4/2011 12:47:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: I doubt you'll ever believe me, until Rocket send you your branded skateboard that is! That's right George. I like action :) At least IBM called me *once* to see if I wanted to renew my license. Not that that wasn't pretty pitiful, but at least it was something. I and others probably thought that Rocket was going to take U2 and take off! and in light of the fact that they didn't even show up at Spectrum... what are we to make of that. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Reliability doesn't raise enough issues to keep the list busy
In a message dated 5/4/2011 6:50:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, da...@dacono.com.au writes: Often they are training those people to write U2 code rather than hiring pure U2 people. That is simply excellent for the future of U2 programmers. Train people to write really awful code with little supervision :) I can see the future. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Reliability doesn't raise enough issues to keep the list busy
We'll all believe you, when they are published. What's the link again? In a message dated 5/3/2011 4:21:55 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: How a product that is growing can simultaneously be dying is a bit of a mystery. Sitting here with last quarter's sales figures for U2 in the UK I can definitely say it's not dying, they look very healthy indeed. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
In a message dated 4/28/2011 5:07:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, johnisr...@daytonsuperior.com writes: The vendors of canned packages out there ought to develop a GUI/web interface to keep their package appealing to those that don't care/understand the db behind it. In a tight race, bells and whistles can make the difference in choosing new software even if in the long run, after really beating on it, it is the poorer choice. It's an question of priorities and market worth. If it takes me, the vendor, 200 hours to rewrite my app using a GUI and I can upsell it to four of my ten clients, I may never make back my investment. In a tight race bells and whistles DO make the difference I agree. Pick has traditionally won in races which weren't tight in terms of business solutions. Pick was the best and cheapest and the moat was wide. Is the moat smaller today? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Say Adobe
In a message dated 4/28/2011 6:41:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bi...@hkmetalcraft.com writes: The UniVerse revolves around the center of the UniVerse which is of course... Adobe Flash. I can only believe this is said in jest. When my clients ask about Flash I shudder. Flash is the worst nightmare to ever hit the web :) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
In a message dated 4/28/2011 9:07:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jscha...@gmail.com writes: Not germane to my argument Will. There are not 2 virtually identical languages called COBOLVERSE and COBOLDATA. Yes my argument is extensible. Why does Cobol still exist? Because there are still companies who wish to continue to run Cobol. Why? Because they are cheap and have no money and have no desire to change. Why does Unidata still exist? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Say Flex
In a message dated 4/28/2011 10:44:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bi...@hkmetalcraft.com writes: No... I am serious. Flex is where it is at and where it is going. We are all going to be rich. I'm hiring a dozen monkeys so I can be at the forefront of this new world. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye... Reasons not to say goodbye.
Speaking of editors, why did UD/UV not ever adopt John's JET product ? It was at least a decade ahead, in terms of full screen editing. BTW I hardly ever use ED to edit programs, Brian's mv-developer is so much better. It would be great if UD would come with a decent editor out of the box, though. -Original Message- From: Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011 1:06 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye... Reasons not to say goodbye. Hi Doug, I think it is very well my job to help staff using my software to be more productive. That's what I at least get paid for! But then I work for an end user and not a software vendor. BTW I hardly ever use ED to edit programs, Brian's mv-developer is so much better. It would be great if UD would come with a decent editor out of the box, though. Or if you could download one from the Rocket website. Not that I wouldn't love to try your shiny new toy - I'm sure I'd love it. But if I would ask my boss to buy an annual license for a fancy new editor he would ask me to justify the extra cost. And I think I would have real problems trying to do that. I can understand that you are very proud of your product. So would I, but I still can't really see the benefit for me personally. When I edit Visual Basic code for instance, I am grateful to have an editor that does not only show me when I make typos, it also makes suggestions and completes code for me. It's great because I am not very familiar with VB and there are so many methods and unfamiliar syntax. But writing UniBasic it would probably drive me nuts. And that is because I know what I am doing and exactly what and how I want to write it. I don't need some smart-ass piece of software trying to tell me how to do my job and probably be wrong half of the time. But at least you can turn it off. I more and more use so called state-of-the-art tools like Cognos or Sharepoint as well, but more often than not I find them not as productive and intuitive as the sales hype claims them to be. Especially having to use the mouse and open and close new windows all the time can be very time consuming, repetitive and outright boring. Highlight the field, go to the properties window, click on the such-and-such field (of course you have to scroll up or down to get there half the time), click on the arrow and select one of the options or double click on the dots and another window opens... And then it still doesn't do what you expect because you have to click on something else on the toolbar, open another window, open the such-and-such tab and... But then half of the time it still doesn't work and you have to start from scratch. At least changing the colour or skin on the finished product only takes a couple of minutes :-) . Mecki On 28/04/2011 14:57, Doug Averch wrote: Hi Mecki: It doesn't matter if the staff is more productive or not, that is not our job. We have given them what Google, Microsoft, Oracle and whomever have. That browser front-end is rich with functionality, easy of use, and can be color customized at a flip of a switch. If we don't give them attractive front-end then the next thing you'll hear will be the door hitting your bottom on the way out. We work with HTML, JavaScript, Java, UOJ, and UniBasic. This is more work: we have five functional pieces of software instead of one. We want our clients and users to have the best we can offer that will allow them to do their job with the software is not getting in their way. What we should be doing is to make changes to software to accommodate differing business needs. With Universe and Unidata databases, we can add dictionary items on the fly, add prompts to screens, and changing report selections, all with in a few hours. The big boys are still gathering requirements and in meetings, when we deliver those requested changes. In order to do this you must have the skill set, training, and state of the art tools. Why do you think a boutique software company like U2logic has been pushing the edge to give the U2 market the finest tools we can? Because we are competing with the big boys who have state of the art tools and are not using AE or ED to create and edit programs. Those of us using XLr8Editor, with continuous compile, know before we actually compile it whether our code will be syntax clean. How is that not making U2 programmers even more productive? Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com/tools.html Eclipse based XLr8Editor for U2 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
In a message dated 4/27/2011 9:59:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, johnisr...@daytonsuperior.com writes: However, a mature interface can not reasonably be achieved if it is a canned package with vendor support that is still old style. Even the GUI interface with SB leaves things to be desired. We are locked into whatever our vendor supports - writing our oun interface for a large ERP system will simply never happen (thus the vendor is cutting their throat as well as ours), and I see no interest on their end to make this happen. If the canned package does everything your *business* needs to be successful, then why would anyone want to upset that business requirement, just to make it look pretty ? See how much money you can spend on a pretty interface that doesn't move your bottom line into the black, but rather into the red ? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
But you're ignoring the issue that if management goes to a more familiar interface, their business goes bankrupt because it the familiar interface doesn't actually help them run their business and in fact prevents them from running their business. The vendor who wins is the one who impacts the bottom line, not the one who ignores it. That has little to do with the interface type. In a message dated 4/27/2011 10:45:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, johnisr...@daytonsuperior.com writes: This would be a vendor decision to keep their clients (management). Otherwise, as we have all seen, management may make a call to go to something with a more familiar interface. Thus, the vendor looses a client. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
Cobol still exists also. Oh you're on Unidata... well we're discontinuing that product in 2002. In a message dated 4/27/2011 12:40:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jscha...@gmail.com writes: I do however think the fact that there are still 2 products is unbelievable considering they have now been owned by one entity (at a time) since 1997. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Databasic conversion
In a message dated 4/15/2011 5:43:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, u...@edclark.net writes: But then we decided we wanted to upgrade the universe system and have all our accounting users on that. Just about everything else was ok, but it took the var 3 months of work to convert the procs to work on universe. Can you explain a bit more this statement about Procs and Universe ? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Disclosing technology
You're speaking about technical specifications, not the freakin database :) Apples and oranges. If Google tried to stop an ex-employee for declaring that they use PHP, they'd be laughed off the planet. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Disclosing technology
In a message dated 4/12/2011 10:25:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ropor...@ochsner.org writes: PHP isn't a database... apples and oranges. It's the same point. The point you're skirting :) The specifications of a particular implementation, are not the same thing as just the fact of the implementation. At any rate, all the companies in my list have publicly declared. So it's all a moot point isn't it? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Disclosing technology
In a message dated 4/12/2011 10:45:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ropor...@ochsner.org writes: Not skirting anything. The 1st line of my 1st reply ... consider everything inside the DC proprietary and confidential. You ignored that line apparently and decided to focus instead on the article was about the infrastructure and then changed from db technology to programming language in your reply. The point was the same, such information is considered PC, and is WSJ level news when companies decide to do otherwise. I was simply pointing you did the exact same type of switch when you replied. 1) It is a security issue for the issues that a few of have pointed out whether you want to accept it or not. 2) NDA's are enforcable against the signer. And most company's have much larger legal budgets than ex-employees. 3) Hosts (I've more than a decade of experience in that industry) WILL remove your site if it causes them issues. You mentioned PHP... I know a large company (you've used their websites I bet but no I won't say who. I didn't sign an NDA, but respect their wishes) that changed the extension attached the php interpreter JUST so to as not advertise that fact to minimize the exposure. Why would I care what some company wants to claim? Companies claim all sorts of things in NDAs which are not enforceable at all. 1) It is not a security issue. 2) Who cares? 3) My articles have caused a number of issues, yet Knol respects authors more than reactionaries evidently because they are all still up. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Disclosing technology
Apples and oranges. No ISP will shut down a site for merely publishing the names of companies using a particular technology. Publishing names is not the same thing as publishing security vulnerabilities, whatever that means. Will Johnson In a message dated 4/10/2011 7:25:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 3xk547...@sneakemail.com writes: Further, if you see your own company name somewhere and you feel this is a potential security threat, contact the publisher of the information, and if they don't comply with your wishes, please let us know. If enough people complain that a website owner is publishing security vulnerabilities, most ISPs will shut them down. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Disclosing technology
I knew you were talking about me. I do not accept your claim that this decision is up to the company however. Any former employee can certainly state what technology a company used, and there is no legitimate contract which could preclude it. Would some companies wish to try to stop their past employees from talking about what technologies are used there? Possibly. I really can't see any reason for this hypothetical concept. I've certainly never even been asked, let alone required, to not discuss it. Could companies legally do so? That is, would such an effort stand up in a claim? It's quite unlikely. There is no specific inherent claim a company could make to technology created and owned by some outside source. There is nothing confidential about the nature of the technology, specific to any particular company that uses it. Publishing the name of the type of technology a company uses, is not publishing people's private and confidential information. Since when did a company become a person? Thousands of vendors publish addresses of companies without their consent. The privacy policy is specific to persons only, and is specific to certain classes of information which can not be discovered by public means. If you publish your own social security number, it's no longer private is it? Likewise if anyone else publishes it, it's no longer private either. There is no confidentiality implicit in the type of technology a company might use, and there is no higher authority to which to appeal, at Knol or elsewhere, based on the privacy policy which covers individuals solely, and only private not public information. Will -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 5:09 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Disclosing technology Will, I'll be clear that I'm talking about you publishing the names of MV sites without their approval, and thank you for stating your position on that. Your naïve statement that you're merely publishing the names of companies is not the problem. The problem is that you are identifying these companies, as you say, as using a particular technology. While some companies freely disclose their choices of technology, others do not. This is their choice to make, not yours. I firmly believe that you do not understand the concerns that we are discussing. But that does not change the fact that people do have concerns, as obviously someone else has pointed out. I encourage you to at least acknowledge that people may be concerned about something that you don't yet understand. Regarding ISP action: You host your information on Knol pages at Google, for which their privacy policy is available here: http://knol.google.com/k/content-policy That policy, to which you agreed when you started services, states: PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: We do not allow the unauthorized publishing of people's private and confidential information, such as credit card numbers, Social Security Numbers, driver's and other license numbers, and other personal information that is not publicly accessible. The Terms of Service are here: http://knol.google.com/k/knol-terms-of-service That page states: Violation of any of the foregoing, including the Knol Content Policy, may result in immediate termination of this Agreement, and may subject you to state and federal penalties and other legal consequences. Therefore, through unauthorized publishing of people's private and confidential information Google's policy is to shut you down, as I said earlier. This is not unique. The policies are similar at many/most ISPs. I really don't think you're going to change your position on this but at least now people in this community know who might be publishing information found in this forum, and they know that they have recourse to higher authorities if required. T From: Will Johnson Apples and oranges. No ISP will shut down a site for merely publishing the names of companies using a particular technology. Publishing names is not the same thing as publishing security vulnerabilities, whatever that means. Further, if you see your own company name somewhere and you feel this is a potential security threat, contact the publisher of the information, and if they don't comply with your wishes, please let us know. If enough people complain that a website owner is publishing security vulnerabilities, most ISPs will shut them down. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Extreme slow down on Universe periodically
Make certain that no one has decided that that server needs periodic virus scan checks. The database is seen as one very large file, and each change to it triggers the I've changed flag which triggers virus scanning. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [AD] Even more editors ..
In a message dated 4/7/2011 5:51:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, br...@brianleach.co.uk writes: In addition to the two excellent editors (Doug's and Charlie's) already mentioned - you can download my free screen editor (Z) and my free Windows based editor (mvDeveloper) from my website ... Be sure to not give a URL in your ad :) Reduce bandwith consumption by making your customers search for your product. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Game changer for U2 editors ([AD] added for Doug)
In a message dated 4/7/2011 12:15:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, syme...@gmail.com writes: Unlimited ftp space - fantastic ;) See how you are. I have unlimited server space in the cloud. At least, after loading up umpteen gigs of data they've never told me to stop. And when I signed up for it, they actually stated that it was unlimited Someone send me a terabyte, let's try it. Dubya ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Epicor and Eclipse Was Re: PICK Systems Administrator position
In a message dated 4/7/2011 12:17:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, syme...@gmail.com writes: Now thats what you call targeting advertising - google knows everything that you are doing 24x7 !! That's funny but not. I was playing with my notepad and some program turned on my cam when I didn't even know it was going to do that. You know those cams spy on you when you're sleeping and stuff. It's all part of the master plan. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Epicor and Eclipse Was Re: PICK Systems Administrator position
In a message dated 4/7/2011 8:32:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ggal...@wyanokegroup.com writes: That's why I have duck tape over my built in camera on my laptop. I hate camera's that don't have a manual lens cover. You never know when one of those spyware programs will activate the camera How many ducks had to die for your tape ! The horror! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [AD] Even more editors ..
There's always one in every crowd I guess the brianleach.co.uk part of the email addr wasn't the first place you looked? :) :) -Original Message- From: Ron Walenciak r...@sdg-nj.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2011 12:19 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] Even more editors .. I guess the brianleach.co.uk part of the email addr wasn't the first place you looked? :) :) Ron -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of fft2...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:56 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] Even more editors .. In a message dated 4/7/2011 5:51:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, br...@brianleach.co.uk writes: In addition to the two excellent editors (Doug's and Charlie's) already mentioned - you can download my free screen editor (Z) and my free Windows based editor (mvDeveloper) from my website ... Be sure to not give a URL in your ad :) Reduce bandwith consumption by making your customers search for your product. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] PICK Systems Administrator position
My wager is pre-OA system. A true Pick R83 that some small manufacturing shop has had running for 20 years. I'll put two bucks on it! Will In a message dated 4/7/2011 2:44:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, r...@sdg-nj.com writes: I've known Joe since the 90's and he does know what Pick is. I've worked through him or on a job found by him twice in the past. I agree that the database platform would be an interesting piece of the puzzle. :) I'm guessing that he's coming at it from the point of view of a Pick programming job, where if you know one pick you can probably work at any other pick site (and it was nice of you to prod him into the right direction regarding what a system admin would need to know.) I'm also guessing that he knows enough about Universe/Unidata to be on the right list. Or not, and at this point I'll let him speak for himself and bow out. :) Ron Ron Walenciak The Software Design Group ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Databasic conversion
Flame on Johnny Storm. I think Tony you're missing the Pick calling card which is the application. If you have a Pizza shop and are running um... Pizza Warrior 3.5 or whatever and it's crappy And I show you Pizza Hero 6.5 (which just happens to run in Universe) and you think it's super duper. Then you, the business owner, doesn't or shouldn't care what Universe is, as long as my solution is super and probably cheaper. That's the Pick way! Sell to the cheap bastards and then when their hooked keep upping your licensing fees. Dubya What's your ERP buster? -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2011 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Databasic conversion From: Mecki Foerthmann AFAIK UD can be run in case insensitive mode as well. I always turned case-insensitivity off in D3 because I think it's a real pain in the neck. Sounded great to start with but when you see the first printouts (i.e. invoices) you curse yourself if you didn't turn it off.:-( Not to (re)start a war but just present the other side: I consider case-insensitivity to be one strong advantage in D3 over other platforms. I constantly stumble on the requirement to get the casing just right at TCL and elsewhere in some MV environments when it's completely unnecessary and archaic that we should need to stumble on such a thing. Same goes for the difference between dashes and dots (LIST-ITEM vs LIST.ITEM) which is nicely translated for us in QM, Caché, and maybe in some flavors in U2. So just to balance it out. Some people swear at case-insensitivity, but I swear by it. WRT the OP : As soon as I saw the question about D3 to Unidata I immediately thought of the years of pain to which Bill Haskett was subjected. From his experience I swore off ever porting to Unidata. YMMV Symeon, perhaps in another thread (or email) you could explain why a site feels a need to migrate from D3, and then why they chose Unidata. With apologies to the sensitive, I don't think a migration from D3 is justified except for some extreme cases, and as to choosing Unidata, I don't see the business or technical benefits at all. Oh OK, I'll start a holy war. The only compelling reason for migration from a competing platform to U2 _used_ to be the IBM name. That doesn't exist anymore. Now these platforms need to compete on their technical merits and Rocket needs to sell itself on superiority as a business partner. Sorry folks but I don't see any of that. Really - where's the beef? U2 is good software and the U2 team at Rocket are good people. But I don't see any compelling reasons to choose this platform over any other these days. The political can't get fired for buying IBM edge is gone. Feel free to defend the platform because you've already made the investment and it's politically correct for you to take an obvious position, but be prepared for some pragmatic requests for more compelling reasoning. I'd really like to understand why any site would want to migrate to U2 these days. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Databasic conversion
My response Tony was related to your paragraph: But I don't see any compelling reasons to choose this platform over any other these days. Perhaps you meant any other MV Platform. But I read it as ANY other platform. -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2011 9:53 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Databasic conversion From: Will Johnson I think Tony you're missing the Pick calling card which is the application. Your response was unrelated to my inquiry about porting from other MV platforms to U2. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] PICK Systems Administrator position
Joe this is Will Johnson, you said that someone named Ivan would call me today. But no one has called me yet. 831 477 7125 -Original Message- From: Joseph Chelston j...@bsgstaffing.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Apr 6, 2011 9:58 am Subject: Re: [U2] PICK Systems Administrator position This position is located on the East Coast of the US I will be happy to discuss the full details of this position if you contact me directly. I respect your privacy. Regards, Joe Chelston Executive Recruiter BSG Staffing Group LLC Phone: 856.218.1000 Fax: 856.228.8585 Cell: 856.422.4400 Email: j...@bsgstaffing.com Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Susan Lynch sly...@fwdco.com wrote: Or at the very least, on a world-wide list like this, what continent it is on? (unless, of course, it is a tele-commutable opportunity) Susan Lynch - Original Message - From: Marc Harbeson marc.harbe...@gmail.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: 04/06/2011 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [U2] PICK Systems Administrator position Can you at least say southern CA or northern NY or something in the ballpark of where on earth it is located? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Chelston Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:22 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] PICK Systems Administrator position We are seeking a PICK Systems Administrator for a long term contract position. Due to confidentiality, we will not post specific details on this forum. Please email me if you are interested exploring. I'll be happy to give you the full details of this opportunity direct. Regards, Joe Chelston Executive Recruiter Phone: 856.218.1000 Fax: 856.228.8585 Cell: 856.422.4400 Email: j...@bsgstaffing.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] PICK Systems Administrator position
Uh... um... *gazes blankly at the wall trying to find an excuse* -Original Message- From: fft2001 fft2...@aol.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:00 pm Subject: Re: [U2] PICK Systems Administrator position Joe this is Will Johnson, you said that someone named Ivan would call me today. But no one has called me yet. 831 477 7125 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Game changer for U2 editors ([AD] added for Doug)
In a message dated 4/6/2011 7:06:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cwn...@comcast.net writes: Are you volunteering to put it all together where everyone can get to it? I can try to get it all together, but happily, I've been pretty busy lately, so I'm not sure when. I won't be able to provide support as such, but I'd be happy to try to help anyone who wants to use it. Heck, knowing people are using my programs is almost better than money, anyway. Yes. I have an autozipper and autounzipper/installer that runs inside Pick BASIC. It magically untangles all the code into the appropriate files, compiles what needs to be compiled and doesn't try to compile what isn't a program. Creates files that don't exist and populates them, etc etc etc. Wrote it about nine hundred years ago, but it still runs on any Pick implementation. I also have unlimited ftp space. Dubya. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] PICK Systems Administrator position
Personally I think it's probably a smallish shop running some older version (I myself just encountered another MvBase believe it or don't). I wouldn't think Avante would be looking just for a Pick systems administrator, could be wrong. Probably the secrecy is due to the highly competitive nature of sharks when they smell blood. If the blood can be located to a particular town, for some towns, all the sharks know exactly who the victim is. So you don't say. Dubya ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Epicor and Eclipse Was Re: PICK Systems Administrator position
Funny as heck. I started writing up a few brief notes on this thread, and immediately Epicor popped up as an Adsense advertiser in my margin. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Game changer for U2 editors ([AD] added for Doug)
In a message dated 4/5/2011 9:26:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cwn...@comcast.net writes: The main reason I won't change is because I use my own editor which started life 27 years ago. It does everything I want it to, and if I need something new, I just add it. Heck, it can even make coffee! Publish. We all want to see your ugly baby, so publish the code. Dubya ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Trigger questions
In a message dated 3/30/2011 11:03:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, d...@chancofamily.com writes: There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that know binary and those that do not. Along the same lines there are those who know java and those who want to learn java .. You mean there are no people who don't want to learn java? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Printer Segment Removed?
I don't believe that it's the user who *sees* the message that is the cause. Rather it's the last user who left the strands dangling. Dubya ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Printer Segment Removed?
It would be helpful to explain how. -Original Message- From: inquieti da...@inquieti.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:38 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Printer Segment Removed? You should be able to find something from the common strands to point to the user that is causing the problems. FFT2001 wrote: I don't believe that it's the user who *sees* the message that is the cause. Rather it's the last user who left the strands dangling. Dubya ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] HMAC SHA256
What is the advantage of cURL over wGET for invoking HTTP queries ? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Masking data in fields
In a message dated Hi There is a requirement to mask some of the fields across all tables in the database. Can someone help me on how to go about it, programatically, as I am a novice to programming? GG Um... can you give some specific clear examples? Mask SOME of the fields across ALL tables... To me I wonder if you mean on report output which would possibly be simply changing the dictionary entries. If you mean in programs, why wouldn't that require changing all the targeted programs? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does anyone have an MV BASIC cheatsheet?
In a message dated 3/25/2011 12:00:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 3xk547...@sneakemail.com writes: You can assume that people who get their hands on a PDF will not share it, and every copy distributed will yield an equitable return. I wouldn't bet on this either. Yes I know this part. It was one of my own qualms when I wrote a work recently (HTML not PDF) that was a buyable offer, hidden behind a pay wall. I figure it's quite possible that each buyer may be sharing it with five others, but the work is so incredibly specific At any rate, I've just yesterday passed my 100th sale. Dubya ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does anyone have an MV BASIC cheatsheet?
Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com wrote: To solve this problem of books in the MV market, years ago I suggested that in the MV community we could use a wiki as a framework for writing new books, with a Table of Contents to define the content, and guest authors to contribute content on every topic and for each MV platform. I like this idea. What's the first book you want to co-author? Each chapter could be written by a different person. Do we want to start with just an overview of Pick and then get more specific in later books? Or do we want to tackle a specific area in the first book? DubYa ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does anyone have an MV BASIC cheatsheet?
In a message dated 3/24/2011 8:46:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bi...@hkmetalcraft.com writes: While you are at it, why not write a book (in color) and have O'Reilly publish it. Which brings up an interesting point. Why were there so many books on Pick published in the 80s, up until about 1995 and then... silence ? Has everything been said? Dubya the Artist formerly known as W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does anyone have an MV BASIC cheatsheet?
Talk about painting yourself into a corner. How many VARS did ScreenPro ever convince... twelve? OK maybe thirteen I wish tools like The Programmer's Helper, which actually created source code, would have been more successful. When I have to learn yet another tool that encapsulates the user into a complete re-write in ten years it makes me shudder. Licensees often developed proprietary variations and enhancements (for example, Microdata created their own input processor called ScreenPro) -Original Message- From: Harold Miller hemiii...@comcast.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Mar 24, 2011 2:29 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Does anyone have an MV BASIC cheatsheet? From the ubiquitous Wikipedia: Dick Pick died of stroke complications in October 1994. Pick Systems was often tangled in licensing litigation, and relatively little effort was devoted to marketing and improving the software. Subsequent ports of Pick to other platforms generally offered the same tools and capabilities for many years, usually with relatively minor improvements and simply renamed (for example, Data/BASIC became Pick/BASIC and ENGLISH became ACCESS ). Licensees often developed proprietary variations and enhancements (for example, Microdata created their own input processor called ScreenPro) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does anyone have an MV BASIC cheatsheet?
I'm sure there's a market for someone to write an MV BASIC cheatsheet and sell it online for two bucks. All you need is a thousand people to buy it a year ! -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Mar 24, 2011 3:04 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Does anyone have an MV BASIC cheatsheet? Yeah, great stuff as long as someone else does it, and for free, right? ;) (Not directed, Bill, just a general comment...) From: Bill Brutzman Dawn is on to something... Rocket, U2UG, or stars on this list could whip up a sheet for www.DZone.com . Likewise, MV tutorial videos could be uploaded to www.Lynda.com. While you are at it, why not write a book (in color) and have O'Reilly publish it. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2 - Choir - singing closed
Susan, Charles McMurray is in fact a company that uses Pick http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/companies-that-use-pick/4hmquk6fx4gu/549 My take was just that he was saying that everyone in Pick is old, covered with cobwebs and there's no admittance :) -Original Message- From: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:30 pm Subject: Re: [U2] U2 - Choir - singing closed Garry, Wow. Just to clarify ... Are you saying that the MV-based platforms are dead and those of us who use them are relics who can no longer sing? And you came here to a forum full of people who happily use this technology every day to say this to us? Susan Joslyn Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:00:07 -0700 From: Garry Smith gar...@charlesmcmurray.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] U2 - Choir - singing closed Message-ID: d89e00823dee284bb3c04ffa1a7e8da001acd...@cmcmail.mcm.Local Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As individuals perform their solo act, the choir is reclining at the old folks home. The organ is rusty and full of dust, the building windows are covered in cobwebs, the door is boarded up and an international flock of various unknown species of bird has roosted in the eves. The absentee landlord is still collecting rents from those in the community who have now all moved away to SUNny locations. The damp and dreary interior is still attended to by the last order of the Knights of MV. The foundation of the building though strong,the walls and roof are slowly being chipped away by other building clans to erect their mausoleums. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does anyone have an MV BASIC cheatsheet?
Wouldn't a cheatsheet for MV Basic be kinda big? Or would you leave out those things which to us seem obvious, like = means is equal to in a logical statement, or it means Assign. + means add, : means concatenate Concatenate is a four-syllable word however, so that might be a problem. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/21/2011 3:43:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, da...@dacono.com.au writes: First Fft2001 Can we have your name. How do we know that you are not someone from a competitor like Oracle trying to make Rocket look bad. Secondly the focus on money is pointless. We don't need money we need ideas. If anyone has a good idea and it needs some money from Rocket to make it happen, then I am sure that Rocket will consider it. Rocket is not like IBM who were sucking money out of U2 to push DB2, Rocket brought U2 to grow the business and if you have any ideas that will grow the business they will listen. Throwing money at a problem does not solve it. The board have racked their brains trying to come up with ideas to touch base with all users, if anyone has ideas let us know. Thirdly the directors don't have the time to do everything that is required, many hands make light work and we need more involvement of other users. Here's twelve hundred and thirty google pages, to tell you who I am http://www.google.com/search?hl=q=fft2001%40aol.com The focus on money is not pointless. Here's an idea (which costs money), send a postcard to EVERY person on Rocket's tickler file. And when I say every, I do mean every, saying Please join U2UG and we'll send you a free skateboard... or whatever. I got a skateboard from a vendor with whom I *don't even do business*. No business with this vendor, ever. From Rocket I don't even get a phone call. AND I PROMOTE THEM! :)~~~ so there. That will grow the business by not shrinking the business. I just had another encounter, with *yet another* Mv prospect who is completely disconnected from the mv world except through their VAR. What that means is that if the VAR pisses them off, they will be completely disconnected. That means, the executive level will then say, Oh this system is old, nobody uses it, lets get something bright and shiny... and off we go. The board has racked their brains... how about an actual phone call from an actual Rocket salesperson? The last time anyone from universe under Ardent or under IBM or under Rocket has even *called* me was probably back in 2001. The internet makes people foolish, thinking that they can continue to do business, easier now all by email. What happened to the days when salespeople actually visited sites? Anyway to what kind of outreach are you actually referring here? Throwing money at a problem *does* solve the problem, if the problem requires money in order to make it happen. Not everything is free. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/21/2011 4:53:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: No, this whole thing has got well beyond tedious now, if you haven't got the point yet that Rocket spend money on U2UG rather than give money to it - and that the board want is this way - you never will. I believe George that Laura Hirsch stated that money would help. And I'm sorry, yet again, you *stating* that they spend money on U2UG is not the same at all, in my mind, with someone like Susie detailing exactly what they are spending on U2UG and what it buys or covers. Can you understand this? More words don't move me at all. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/21/2011 6:13:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, da...@dacono.com.au writes: Members particularly new members don't know if Will is working for jBase or Intersystems or other competitors, so being upfront with who you are clears the air for everyone in discussions and minimises misunderstandings. Too long being a member of Wikipedia has numbed me to the weight of position and authority. I suspect everyone of speaking extemporaneously and being off the reservation. I'm not working for Intersystems. I told them I wanted $250,000, a corner office, a view of the ocean, and three months vacation each year, and they hung up on me. Go figure. Dubya The artist formerly known as W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
Then George correct my factual incorrectness by telling us what money Rocket is providing for U2UG ? You're saying that my claim that they aren't providing any is factually incorrect. -Original Message- From: George Land george.l...@aptsolutions.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Cc: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 11:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment The problem with that point of view is that you don't know what Rocket wants from U2UG nor do you know what backing they give already. As I have said, and Brian Leach has confirmed, the board has no problem with the support we get from Rocket. Continuing to maintain that Rocket wants something but is unwilling to provide any money is just factually incorrect. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/20/2011 11:18:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, antli...@youngman.org.uk writes: I repeat. You yourself said that you weren't telling other people what to do. Then PLEASE DON'T! Please STOP TELLING ROCKET TO GIVE MONEY TO U2UG. Please STOP TELLING U2UG TO SPEND THE MONEY. I'm not telling people, I'm telling a company. Rocket wants something out of U2UG but won't give it the financial backing it needs. That's not productive. Can you please scream a lot because everybody loves it :) W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/20/2011 11:43:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dw...@tincat-group.com writes: Would any good come from expanding to become the MVUG? Even when I write that, I think it is likely a bad idea, given that Spectrum could fill that role instead, perhaps (but Spectrum is a for profit working within the MV space, this would be a non-profit working to get exposure for MV outside of the existing MV space). Dawn you need to look at the history. I've only touched on the fact that the SMA was developed, albeit vendor-to-vendor to address this very space. You're talking about the same thing on a user level. Pick User's Groups physically have disappeared, but the Pick Users are still out there. Who supports them in a general sense if they can't afford or aren't being sponsored to go to Spectrum? Their companies say the technology is old because they aren't being contacted, no outreach, they aren't being touched or tickled by the vendors. They feel isolated. Whose fault is that? Without the monthly Pick User Group meetings, there's no constant contact. What fills the void? Would a mvUG work? I don't know, would a U2UG work? It's better to try and fail. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/18/2011 4:27:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
antli...@youngman.org.uk writes:
On 18/03/11 22:48, fft2...@aol.com wrote:
The element that says you... you... some personality trait you are
perverse you have an axe to grind.
That's ad hominem. If you have an issue with my argument, than address
the
argument, not my person.
Simple answer - it's YOUR question, so he was answering YOU.
That makes no sense Anthony. I can answer YOU without saying YOU are an
idiot.
I can answer YOU by answering YOUR argument, that doesn't mean I have to
also slap YOU in the face while doing it does it?
I do notice there doesn't seem to be much support for your position
though...
Not relevant. I will stand in the hurricane, I have no problem with that
position whatsoever.
Why?
I'll tell you why. Because we are an INTERNATIONAL group. What on earth
would we DO with the money? And, very importantly, who would SPEND it?
You would do outreach, and you would spend it.
There's 9 board members, spread all over the world. I can't remember the
spread when I was on the board, but at 50 miles apart Brian and me were
VERY VERY VERY close. One of the big problems was even finding a time
for the conference call because it was the middle of the night for some,
the middle of the working day for others, and - conveniently for some -
just after close of business for them.
At the end of the day, the board DIDN'T WANT money, because we had no
mechanism for spending it, and couldn't see any way that would work to
set up such a mechanism. If you've got any better ideas than we had, I'm
sure the current board would be delighted to know!
Here's an idea. Send a postcard to everyone on your mailing list saying
Spread the word about U2.
Obviously a newsgroup doesn't work if no one is reading it.
The last time I got anything in the mail about U2UG was ... oh never that's
right.
Again it's not about their involvement only about their financial
involvement.
And you haven't answered George's question - you clearly didn't read it.
Why do you think Rocket doesn't have a budget?. I certainly read into
that the implication that Rocket DOES have a budget, and spends it on
supporting the group (I'm out of the loop now, so I can't speak for the
current board).
It's clear that Rocket has no budget for promoting U2UG because it has
never spent any money TO promote U2UG that should be pretty clear.
Internal promotion is pointless. Allocating resources to meet with you is
pointless if there is no outreach to expand the group.
Outreach. Outreach. and Outreach.
Fine. What are YOU doing to do outreach? What this group needs is
PEOPLE, not money. Stop telling OTHER PEOPLE what THEY should do, and do
it yourself. Ask for help if you need it, but don't EXPECT anything more
than moral support - the chances are the board is overcommitted
themselves and have nothing of themselves left to give!
I have created the first and only apparently known list of end-users of
Pick. I have created evidently the first and only known list of books on
Picks. I have created evidently the first and only known article on parts of
the
history of Pick. (Not all parts have been documented you know.) What are
YOU doing to do outreach?
I'm not telling OTHER PEOPLE what THEY should do.
I'm telling a COMPANY what IT should do. That's a little different.
I'm not asking the BOARD to do one single thing. I'm saying now and then
and later, that ROCKET should do something.
That is, provide money.
Have you asked Rocket for support?
Again that's inreach. My point is outreach. Has Rocket ever contacted me?
Or really anyone who isn't already in their tickler file?
To promote something you go outside your insular list.
To your claim that license numbers are growing I have to respond
{{fact}}.
I've seen no evidence of that. What's your evidence.
If you want to demonstrate your claims, than do so with sources.
Anyone can make claims. I can claim just as easily that everything
you've
said is exactly upside-down.
Claims are not worth the air into which they are propelled.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But the evidence I have
can be summed up as IBM was surprised how vigorous U2 was when they
bought it almost by mistake.
Um what? I'm talking about license numbers ARE growing emphasis on Are.
You are talking about license numbers WERE growing
I'm sure you don't remember the takeover by Ardent of Informix. But if
you read between the lines, that's what happened - okay, Ardent shares
got turned into Informix ones. But 6 months later it was the Informix
board that was let go, and ALL the head honcho posts were filled with
Ardent people. IBM reported that the U2 division was *consistently*
recording double-digit percent growth. Yes I know they didn't publicise
it very much, but why would the DB2
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/19/2011 1:46:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: Outreach: fft2...@aol.com seems to think that this is what the user group is about 'Outreach. Outreach. and Outreach.' The current board (and the last one) would probably disagree between ourselves on this, but I don't look on outreach as being a function of a user group or, if it is, it's a small part. A user group usually shares knowledge and help within the community and represents that community to the vendor. It simply doesn't have the resources, particularly it doesn't have people with time to outreach in any meaningful way. That's not to say that outreach isn't desirable, but it's not the only focus. No that's a misunderstanding of my point. Not that outreach is the only focus. Rather that if Rocket would provide a budget for outreach, then the U2UG could do outreach. And again if Rocket provided a budget for outreach, then there would be resources for outreach. That they don't of course means that it cannot happen. Which doesn't benefit anybody. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/18/2011 4:24:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: A big part of the reason is that the user group is not a properly constituted organisation in the sense of being a corporation or other legal entity that can hold money. Whilst incorporation has been a topic over the years there are difficulties within it, not least where to incorporate and the problems inherent in being an international group. So don't blame Rocket for not providing a budget, if they provided money we don't have the ability to accept it. Not relevant. Rocket can provide a *budget* item, which the U2UG could *direct* without the U2UG ever actually holding the money. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/18/2011 10:23:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: Speaking as a member of the U2 user group board I think I represent the views of the whole board when I say that we have no issues whatsoever with the support that we receive from Rocket. There is a senior representative on hand at every board meeting, we have access to software, to people and to resources. The limitations of the user group are entirely due to the limited time that board members have to spend on it and are nothing to do with Rocket. So please let's not make out that any perceived problems with the user group stem from Rocket, they don't. If we want a better user group we need more people to be engaged with it, you don't need to be on the board to help, again I'm sure that I speak for the entire board when I say that we would welcome any help that anyone is willing to give. Any group is only as effective as the resources they have at their disposal, including money. So yes, without money I'm going to be pointing fingers at Rocket to ask, where's the financial support Rocket? Resources without financial resources, are not a full set of resources. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/18/2011 1:02:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: Are you being deliberately perverse or do you have some axe to grind with Rocket? Yes be sure to throw an ad hominem attack in there to try to convince the reading audience not to listen. You clearly have no idea what Rocket does for the user group and despite being told that we can't take money but instead Rocket provides other resources with which we are very happy you still say 'where's the financial support?' Asked and answered. A group doesn't need to take money, in order to use money. Address that. Why doesn't Rocket have a budget earmarked Money to be used to support the U2 user group's activities? Why? Let's be clear about this - the support that we have asked for has been provided. There is nothing that we are being held back from doing due to lack of support from Rocket. Then you need to ask for more. Clearly the current strategy is not working. What the group needs is not support from Rocket, we have that, it is the active participation of U2 users willing to put their time where their mouths are and contribute to what the group is doing. If you want to contribute start putting some ideas forward and volunteering time to put them into action. Sure let's continue a strategy that doesn't work. That is a great marketing approach. On your next point, I volunteer more time to promote MV than most. I'm not willing at all, to promote Rocket at the expense of other MV Vendors, as a volunteer with no support from Rocket themselves. Clearly you have no idea what I do, or what I've been doing. Maybe you should figure that out first, before you go spouting off about what you think I should be doing. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/18/2011 3:34:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
On 18/03/2011 21:49, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/18/2011 1:02:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
Are you being deliberately perverse or do you have some axe to grind
with
Rocket?
Yes be sure to throw an ad hominem attack in there to try to convince
the
reading audience not to listen.
Not sure what element of that was 'ad hominem', but if that's how you want
to take it that is up to you.
The element that says you... you... some personality trait you are
perverse you have an axe to grind.
That's ad hominem. If you have an issue with my argument, than address the
argument, not my person.
You clearly have no idea what Rocket does for the user group and
despite
being told that we can't take money but instead Rocket provides other
resources with which we are very happy you still say 'where's the
financial
support?'
Asked and answered. A group doesn't need to take money, in order to
use money. Address that.
Why doesn't Rocket have a budget earmarked Money to be used to support
the
U2 user group's activities?
Why?
Why do you think Rocket doesn't have a budget earmarked for user group
activities? You clearly have no idea what involvement they have in their
user group.
Again it's not about their involvement only about their financial
involvement.
Let's be clear about this - the support that we have asked for has been
provided. There is nothing that we are being held back from doing due
to
lack of support from Rocket.
Then you need to ask for more. Clearly the current strategy is not
working.
Why ask for more, what would we do with it? What activities do you think
the user group should be doing that are restricted by lack of money? We
are a user group, not a body dedicated to marketing a technology.
Outreach. Outreach. and Outreach.
What the group needs is not support from Rocket, we have that, it is
the
active participation of U2 users willing to put their time where their
mouths are and contribute to what the group is doing. If you want to
contribute start putting some ideas forward and volunteering time to
put
them into action.
Sure let's continue a strategy that doesn't work. That is a great
marketing approach.
On your next point, I volunteer more time to promote MV than most. I'm
not
willing at all, to promote Rocket at the expense of other MV Vendors, as
a
volunteer with no support from Rocket themselves.
Clearly you have no idea what I do, or what I've been doing.
Maybe you should figure that out first, before you go spouting off about
what you think I should be doing.
I have no idea who you are, you hide behind a meaningless name -
ft2...@aol.com - you could be anyone. OK, so you don't want to promote
Rocket, let's remember that this is a U2 user group we are talking about.
It's not a Pick user group, an MV user group, a jbase user group, an
Intersystems user group. It is U2, that is Rocket and Rocket support
their
own user group.
It sounds to me like you are someone whose involvement in MV has a bias
towards the non-U2 side, that is your choice but have you discussed with
anyone at Rocket what their strategy is? Do you have any information
about
what they are doing?
U2 is sold OEM, license numbers are growing, revenues are growing, ISVs
are
prospering. OK, so there are less companies doing their own in house
development, but that is the way the market is moving. Today it is
increasingly about selling applications, not databases or development
tools
and as a specialist at selling OEM that is good for Rocket and U2. So you
think it's a strategy that doesn't work, well that's your choice, but you
probably have no sight of sales figures, no idea of licenses sold, no
information on which to make that judgment.
My name is not meaningless.
And there is a difference between what the *group* does and what *I* do.
I do not have an bias away from U2, or toward anything non-U2.
I see no point in discussing with anyone at Rocket what their strategy
is, since my entire point is, outreach.
Outreach is not inreach. If I have to contact them, that's not outreach is
it?
To your claim that license numbers are growing I have to respond
{{fact}}.
I've seen no evidence of that. What's your evidence.
If you want to demonstrate your claims, than do so with sources.
Anyone can make claims. I can claim just as easily that everything you've
said is exactly upside-down.
Claims are not worth the air into which they are propelled.
W
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Re: [U2] [Repost] Response from mvCommunitymap
In a message dated 3/17/2011 11:08:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cstew...@tri-sysconsulting.com writes: There are two reasons why we haven't publicized everyone in our database. # 1, We have to respect the Users privacy and confidentiality, not just end-users, but vendors as well. As a vendor, how often do you advertise the tools that you use to run your business. Curt it's not the case that you haven't publicized everyone, You haven't publicized ANYone. That's quite a different animal isn't it? You will only publicize the names of the companies who are the vendors and consultants if they pay you to advertise on your site? That's not a resource. We can get the names of many of these, by going to the Rocket website where they list solutions which run on U2. What is the benefit to the community to hide those very same company names on your map? I don't see it. I do see a benefit to you personally. My list of company names is open, public and free. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE
In a message dated 3/17/2011 3:04:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, p...@gnosys.co.nz writes: Worth a try but no unfortunately the ENVIRONMENT variable set in the uvsh shell is lost when returning to the linux/unix shell which invoked the uvsh. I like the output to a log solution. Did you try that one? You could then even page the log to show the results in your outer shell, or pipe it into another script or something for auto-processing. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/17/2011 9:57:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 3xk547...@sneakemail.com writes: There is simply not enough reward for individuals in this market for user group members to champion the MV platform to a wide audience of relational I have to agree with Tony on this. It takes time and effort to pull the names out of a lethargic sea. I briefly mentioned in my history articles the formation of the multi-vendor association. Anyone remember details about that? Specifically who was in it, and why it collapsed. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:17:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ro...@stamina.com.au writes: I mean, it is good for Tri-Sys, as they will generate a list of end users to solicit, but I'd suggest it is unlikely that a VAR is going to make his customer list public ... Ross I think you're right there. I think what we'll see is a slow accumulation of sites based on an employee mentioning it, or a consultant, or ex-employee. But not the VAR. And I think for the very reason that you suggest, that they don't want poachers. Don't want to compete in a completely open market. I wonder if a person were to build a list from online resumes alone, how many companies would be on it. Of course some or even many of those would have moved away from Pick. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/16/2011 1:10:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: Firstly the overwhelming majority of U2 end user sites do not have technical staff, even if they have an IT department that department knows nothing about U2 whatsoever. They run an application, they may manage the server it is on (although increasingly they will have it hosted and won't even do that) but they know nothing about the database or technology. George I'm solely referring to those sites, who have actual U2 professionals on staff. I've worked many many places where other programmer analysts did not subscribe to Spectrum, had never attended a Spectrum show, had never taken a formal class, had never read the U2 (or comp.databases.pick) threads, etc etc etc. Many. In fact usually I'm the most well-connected person on staff (by far), and I don't even have my fingers in every pie... yet. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, br...@brianleach.co.uk writes: Plus of course, since we don't charge fees, we don't have any budget to advertise our presence! Why isn't Rocket themselves giving a budget? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
If as one person remarked, he is the only one in a sea of twenty multi-value employees who knows about U2UG or is a member, than I would humbly suggest that it doesn't. In the vast majority of the multi-value environments in which I've worked in my *cough twenty six cough* years in Pick, even finding a copy of Spectrum is a rare experience. So I think there is really an enormous amount of outreach that could be done, which isn't. I don't know why that is. -Original Message- From: Wols Lists antli...@youngman.org.uk To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 2:07 pm Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment On 15/03/11 20:04, fft2...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, br...@brianleach.co.uk writes: Plus of course, since we don't charge fees, we don't have any budget to advertise our presence! Why isn't Rocket themselves giving a budget? Let's ask a slightly different question - where and how would we advertise ourselves? This mailing list probably reaches the widest target audience ... Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] 'U2 Market Place' {Unclassified}
The original poster mentioned hard earned cash, is this offering soliciting money for something? And if so, for what? W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Coding and brain chemistry
In a message dated 3/7/2011 1:24:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, syme...@gmail.com writes: Therefore i suggest we agree on the highest common denominator which is so long as code is efficient then it does not matter how complex it looks at first glance and therefore such discussion of if x else y is redundant.;) Which of course means job security because few others can comprehend your code. Very clever, but prone to breakage. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
No assumption. You are masking the very issue by merely saying condition when it was a NOT condition :) -Original Message- From: Rex Gozar rgo...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Mar 4, 2011 6:09 am Subject: Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting? good comprehension = faster, accurate programming (that's programming, not code execution) We all want fast and accurate programming. To improve comprehension, you have to write code to (a) reveal its logical structure, and (b) reveal the business rules implemented in the code. Sorry, but structures like: IF A:B:C NE '' THEN CUM(M) = A+B+C (concatenating variables as a string, then performing numeric operations on them) slows down the comprehension process. And for what benefit? To me, that's just a lazy programmer that doesn't want to type a few extra keystrokes. Another structure caused a number of comments: IF condition THEN statement ELSE other-statement END (inline THEN followed by block ELSE). It appears that some readers saw the # in the condition and assumed an If Not Not structure at first, missing the THEN. I find it interesting that no one has commented on the fact that CUM(M) gets conditionally reinitialized, and whether or not that is important. But it proves my points that neither the structure nor business rules are clear within the OP's code. You can have 2 years programming experience, or 20, it does not matter. Better structure and variable naming will vastly improve program accuracy. (On the other hand, I could make this code really, really fast if it didn't have to be accurate!) rex ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
And then they (the anonymous they) came out with a version that allowed the source to be unlimited while still limiting the object to 32K Which made the whole world scratch their head. -Original Message- From: Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Mar 4, 2011 6:41 am Subject: Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting? As usual, Mecki, you expressed my thoughts eloquently. I agree 100%. IF (test) ELSE drives me about as buggy as multiple IF/THEN/ELSE all on the same line. If I can figure out what the original intent was, I change the code so I can understand it at a glance later. I'm not sure why, but OPEN xxx ELSE never bothered me. Ah, the 32K limit, I remember it well. I had a cheat I used sometimes. I would split the source into 2 or more pieces, then INCLUDE the second, third, etc. at the end of the first. As long as the resultant pseudo-code was less than 32K, I was able to get away with it (at least in Microdata Reality). It made editing fun sometimes, but it worked. I also remember jockeying source around so that GOSUBs wouldn't frame fault. That often made a very noticeable difference in execution speed. Those were the days! ;-) Charlie Noah Charles W. Noah Associates cwn...@comcast.net The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie Noah) and do not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of any of my former, current or future employers, employees, clients, friends, enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them. On 03-04-2011 7:25 AM, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: What absolute and utter rubbish! You never had to write IF (test) ELSE ... in Pick. READ did have a THEN clause as far back as I can remember (mid-80s) - only LOCKED came later. You just don't use it that often because you usually only want to do something if your READ fails. Typically READ rec FROM FILE,Id ELSE rec = IF is different. I at least expect that after a test I'll do something if the condition is true. The ELSE clause is optional. I wasn't even aware you could leave the THEN clause out until I encountered some code that did that. That is IMHO one of the worst coding sins and I always change it to IF NOT(test) THEN if I find it anywhere. I just have been bitten too many times with this nonsense code. Aren't I lucky that I don't have to maintain your code? :-P You wouldn't say ' if you brush your teeth else you get decay' in a conversation, so why would you want to do it in your code? But hey, why make life easy for the next guy if with a little bit of effort you can make it really difficult? If it was hard to write it should be hard to read, right? The only thing that forced us to write code as compact as possible in the really olden days was the 32K item size limit. On 04/03/2011 10:50, Wols Lists wrote: On 03/03/11 20:50, Tony Gravagno wrote: Some people apparently have brains that toggle IF NOT ELSE faster than others. But apparently this construct is of concern to some people, whether as a matter of elegance or a matter of coding effectiveness. Recognizing this, the more I can eliminate those lines where I or someone else needs to brain stutter out of the flow, the better I think the code is. Problem is, what causes some people to stutter is what other people find easy. Two cases in point ... A lot of my code does if (test) else, which is a very pick construct. In fact, a lot of code *had* to be written that way because a lot of conditional statements (READ etc) didn't have a THEN back then. And when I was learning C. I taught my instructor a trick or two - an exercise was to count how many 3's in a pack of cards. So I did count += (value == 3); When I read my code out for the instructor to write on the board, he just couldn't hear it right until I spelt it out letter by letter. Again, it's stuff I'd expect a Pickie to do without having to think! But the instructor just couldn't get it until he'd written it on the board and took a good hard look. Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
The point is, why make a construct which is harder to understand, when it takes the exact same amount of effort to make one which is easier to understand? Answer that one Symeon? Why deliberately obfuscate ? -Original Message- From: Symeon Breen syme...@gmail.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Mar 4, 2011 8:05 am Subject: Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting? I still think all of these constructs as just sooo basic that if you can't just read them either which way, then you had better think about another career. From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Rex Gozar Sent: 04 March 2011 14:09 To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting? good comprehension = faster, accurate programming (that's programming, not code execution) We all want fast and accurate programming. To improve comprehension, you have to write code to (a) reveal its logical structure, and (b) reveal the business rules implemented in the code. Sorry, but structures like: IF A:B:C NE '' THEN CUM(M) = A+B+C (concatenating variables as a string, then performing numeric operations on them) slows down the comprehension process. And for what benefit? To me, that's just a lazy programmer that doesn't want to type a few extra keystrokes. Another structure caused a number of comments: IF condition THEN statement ELSE other-statement END (inline THEN followed by block ELSE). It appears that some readers saw the # in the condition and assumed an If Not Not structure at first, missing the THEN. I find it interesting that no one has commented on the fact that CUM(M) gets conditionally reinitialized, and whether or not that is important. But it proves my points that neither the structure nor business rules are clear within the OP's code. You can have 2 years programming experience, or 20, it does not matter. Better structure and variable naming will vastly improve program accuracy. (On the other hand, I could make this code really, really fast if it didn't have to be accurate!) rex ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3480 - Release Date: 03/03/11 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
Ron is right that the OPEN, and READ did not originally support the THEN clause, just the ELSE. Speaking of Microdata, Ultimate and R83 versions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
In a message dated 3/2/2011 9:12:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, martinphill...@ladybridge.com writes: Incidentally, and at the risk of starting a new war on style, this is a great example of why developers should use equate tokens with meaningful names rather than numbers for field references. As someone who has never seen this code before, I haven't got a clue what it does. Using names hopefully makes the code readable, it makes it easy to find all references to a particular item without having to dismiss all the other references to the same field in a different file, and it reduces errors from typos. Martin I stand behind you 100 % I'm not the one who took your wallet however. Names Good. Numbers Evil. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
In a message dated IF PARMS(7)102,CM#'' THEN CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(7)102,CM ELSE CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(12)134,CM END Just as a follow up, IF Not Not, is very bad style. And parsing long and then short is as well. This part should have been done as IF PARMS(7)102,CM='' THEN CUMO(M) += PARMS(12)134,CM ELSE CUMO(M) += PARMS(7)102,CM END Infinitely more legible. W Fire that programmer. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
Let me clarify. The problem in my mind is not with the IF X # '' THEN It's with the ELSE portion, which in effect *means* IF X # (# '') The Else clause is essentially executed on a Not Not condition. That adds unnecessary confusion for the next programmer. W -Original Message- From: David Wolverton dwolv...@flash.net To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:34 am Subject: Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting? Well -- I usually code so the 'first clause' is my 'expected outcome' -- that is, if the PARMS(7)102,CM is TYPICALLY 'not empty' -- so I would do # THEN myself as well.. I do it as much to express the code as the 'typical path'. I also perceive (although have never tested!) the THEN clause as being the 'lower cost' clause to execute. Don't know why I think that or have a reason for thinking that -- I guess because of 'reading' the code, THEN is always the next line without having to 'skip ahead'. So I'm curious why it would that be a bad idea to say ' # THEN'? Is there actually any extra 'overhead'? Or is this a 'preference' issue? Myself, I actually think of it as being 'better documented' explaining how I think the average transaction should progress (usually taking the THEN statements.) Wondering why that is a 'bad thing'??? David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of fft2...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:10 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting? In a message dated IF PARMS(7)102,CM#'' THEN CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(7)102,CM ELSE CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(12)134,CM END Just as a follow up, IF Not Not, is very bad style. And parsing long and then short is as well. This part should have been done as IF PARMS(7)102,CM='' THEN CUMO(M) += PARMS(12)134,CM ELSE CUMO(M) += PARMS(7)102,CM END Infinitely more legible. W Fire that programmer. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
Dave you are correct when referring to dynamic arrays, the 101 type entries in your code. In general, outside of the REMOVE type operations, references like that, must start at field 1 and walk the array until it gets to field 101, reading every character between. Which is why, in general, very large dynamic references are not a good idea. However, it only bites you, when your process that used to handle 100 records a day, now has to handle 100,000 and this code becomes the bottleneck, while your trucks are sitting at the dock waiting as one of my clients used to often say. For the dimensioned array references in your code, the (12) type entries, that is not the case. These dimensioned array references, calculate the offset position, and jump directly to the start of that cell in the array. The cell's content, may be out-of-cell, stored later in the memory map, but it's probably more typical, that it can read the value immediately after the jump. I can get more technical if you need :) Will Johnson -Original Message- From: Dave Laansma dlaan...@hubbardsupply.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 11:55 am Subject: Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting? The reason I ask specifically of the repeated references is, during one of the sessions at U2UG-Denver, it was implied that each time you reference a specific location in a table, the OS basically has to start at the beginning of the table and 'find' its way to that location (explained in my over-simplified way of thinking). Thus why the REMOVE statement is preferred when sequentially referencing a table rather than a FOR/NEXT loop referencing each element individually. The REMOVE statement keeps a pointer as to where it left off in the table and simply goes to the next AM/VM/SM/RM I have personally experienced (and thus embraced) the truly extraordinary performance improvement with the REMOVE statement and would encourage everyone to do so as well. To address a couple comments: This would appear to me to be 'textbook' code, implying it was likely written by a newly graduated college student. With all due respect to college grads, I can't believe some of the code I wrote a few years ago, let alone what I must have done fresh out of college. This code is likely 15+ years old and certainly could use a facelift, as could any of us after any 15-year stint of our lives. To get more detailed would be debating cosmetics ... a debate not intended for this thread. Nearly half-a-million records run through this code each month, it takes about 1.5 hours and is critical that it run at peak efficiency. Therefore my primary objective is performance. Thank you all for the rousing debate. That being said, I think I'll do my modifications and let the group know what the results are. Once again, thank you! Sincerely, David Laansma IT Manager Hubbard Supply Co. Direct: 810-342-7143 Office: 810-234-8681 Fax: 810-234-6142 www.hubbardsupply.com Delivering Products, Services and Innovative Solutions -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 11:50 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting? On 3/2/2011 11:43 AM, Dave Laansma wrote: This is some old code that I didn't write, so please don't use it for anything profitable ... The proposal to the group is: Due to the repeated references deep into the PARMS tables, if this were rewritten to reference these locations as few times as possible, IN YOUR OPINION, would there be a significant improvement in the performance of this subroutine? All in favor of rewrite, say AYE All opposed, say NAY (I'm testing some U2UG-Denver skills) MONTHLY.USAGE: CM=MONTH+LY.CNT FOR M=1 TO 12 IF PARMS(12)101,CM#'' OR PARMS(12)133,CM#'' OR PARMS(12)134,CM#'' THEN CUM(M)=PARMS(12)101,CM+PARMS(12)133,CM+PARMS(12)134,CM END IF PARMS(7)100,CM#'' OR PARMS(7)101,CM#'' OR PARMS(7)102,CM#'' THEN IF PARMS(7)100,CM#'' THEN CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(7)100,CM ELSE CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(12)101,CM END IF PARMS(7)101,CM#'' THEN CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(7)101,CM ELSE CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(12)133,CM END IF PARMS(7)102,CM#'' THEN CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(7)102,CM ELSE CUMO(M)=CUMO(M)+PARMS(12)134,CM END END CM=CM-1; IF CM=0 THEN CM=24 NEXT M RETURN ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users I dunno. If it works and the performance is
Re: [U2] REMOVE() was Is This Worth Rewriting
Yes. Your aligned multivalues are also referred to as dependent-controlling sets. You have one attribute controlling the placements of the values for the others. Nasty buggers, always bite. You have to grab them right behind the ears. -Original Message- From: Steve Romanow slestak...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:35 pm Subject: Re: [U2] REMOVE() was Is This Worth Rewriting I tried to drink the KoolAid and use REMOVE on some projects, but found a show stopper on UDT6.1. I cannot remember the specifics. Oh, I remember, In cases where you are addressing aligned mv's with your loop variable it was not saving you that much because you still need extract the other vars. Does that make sense? If you have 4 aligned mv's. You only gain on the 1st, but still have 3 extracts per iteration. It was cleaner just to keep the FOR loop. One more reason I am pushing to do my business logic in python where I have a whole lot more options in data structures. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
The parens are redundant since concat is a higher precedence than Not Also how about If YAM:AMY:MYA IS NOT(NULL) THEN more intuitive :)~~ In a message dated 3/2/2011 4:54:51 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, brian.whiteh...@pentanasolutions.com writes: 011: IF (YAM : AMY : MYA) # '' THEN ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Is this worth rewriting?
You my friend get the micro-management award for this thread. In a message dated 3/2/2011 9:24:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, dmc...@imb.com.au writes: Actually, (at least in UniData) it is a performance improvement :). It has to do with how BASIC compiles the code into the object file and tags each line with a line number. Each time it jumps to a line or progresses to the next it must process the line number to update it for when it shows errors/warnings etc. By reducing the number of lines the instructions are on, you actually end up with both smaller object code and faster execution. How much though depends on how tight your looping and all but 99%+ cases the difference is dwarfed by disk access times, etc as to make it not worth it as a human optimisation task. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unidata programming books?
In a message dated 3/1/2011 7:17:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, rbarram...@sjcny.edu writes: I recently discovered this wonderful forum and I really would like to expand my unibasic/unidata programming skills especially writing subroutines. Can anyone recommend me some good books on this? We're using Unidata 7.1. A list of all known published books on Pick / Universe / Unidata is at the below link http://knol.google.com/k/fft2001/books-on-the-pick-operating-system/mbasj7lz royk/32 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [SPAM?]Re: silly company names
Short, hard to misspell, unique, and not likely to be confused with something gross or stupid. In a message dated 2/20/2011 7:00:38 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, slestak...@gmail.com writes: I am not in marketing by any means, but isnt the chore for branding to make something that sticks whether it is a word or not? Sony is not a real word, but a great company name. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] silly company names
In a message dated 2/19/2011 3:00:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, 3xk547...@sneakemail.com writes: like Nebbletto. ;) You have to pick a name that cannot be mispelled. Otherwise you're going to get squatters at Nebleto, Nebletto, Nablettoes and so on Selling male enhancement pills ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Frustrated with Rocket / Unidata 7.2
Should I change the name of my company to Galactic Juggernaut ? -Original Message- From: Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Feb 17, 2011 7:14 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Frustrated with Rocket / Unidata 7.2 Totally OT, and I'm just musing here - Rocket, Raining Data then TigerLogic. Does anyone besides me see a trend here? Charlie Noah Charles W. Noah Associates cwn...@comcast.net The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie Noah) and do not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of any of my former, current or future employers, employees, clients, friends, enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them. On 02-17-2011 9:05 PM, Doug wrote: Hi Kevin: Just checked FTP is still running on Unidata 7.2.7 on Windows 2003. Good luck, I'm still waiting for them to fix the SETPTR copies option that worked in 7.1 and they broke in 7.2 on Windows. Sorry Wally, I don't know the case. I spoke with an engineer while I was at U2 University. It was still open then and it is today. Regards, Doug http://www.u2logic.com/XLr8_Resizer.html Try our newly updated Resizer for Universe and Unidata -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:55 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Frustrated with Rocket / Unidata 7.2 Doug... If that's working on 7.2.7/Win I'd love to know how. Things here aren't the same as they were on 7.1. Non-Windows versions appear to be fine. Windows versions... not so much. Wally, my case # is 153722. It was posted through my support contacts @ S7. Feel free to contact me off list if you need more info. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Purging and Indexing
I agree with the opinions expressed, but wish, as one writer has already, to stress the *reason*. Thrashing the disk is a very bad idea. If you want to do any operation whatsoever, on more than say thirty percent of any file, the best course is to do that operation in disk order i.e. frame order i.e. a straight SELECT or BASIC SELECT. No form of index, sselect or any other order which is not the order in which the frames are laid down. When you do the operations in order, the system will magically retain in memory the group on which you're working and possibly the next group as well (if it's using an optimistic look-ahead process) and whatever operations you do on that group will be very fast as they are being done in memory. If you're jumping all over your disk, because you're selecting the items out of frame order, it will be quite slow. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] : Users Groups
I only know of two users groups which still hold meetings. The one in Texas and the one in Seattle. Does anyone know of any other *active* user groups who hold meetings ? I'd like to update the list in my article http://knol.google.com/k/pick-universe-unidata-resources#view W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] : Users Groups
Thanks Richard. I just sent a message to kerry because the page here http://www.aapug.org/next%20meeting.htm has not been update in quite a while. That made me believe they no longer met. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Clear Message Initiative - Logging Errors to a U2 File
Here's the problem I see with moving messages out of the code. It's perfectly fine *if* you have a developer environment of some kind that automatically pulls in messages while you're reviewing code. However in my experience, very few sites have anything close to this. As the next one to come along and maintain the code, I have, on the one hand, a user saying I have this message that says Error in Back-Order Received Quantity and on the other hand, I have code, which I didn't write, which refers to 25 different errors, all external to the code :) Now I have to sit and look up each error code to see which one of them *this* one is, so I even can figure out what part of the code is complaining and about what, and how to try to fix it. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt to prove it. So I'd say you need the environment update before the decision to start shifting the control elements out of code. It's fine for the original developer. It's a nightmare for the next developer. W -Original Message- From: Kate Stanton k...@walstan.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Clear Message Initiative - Logging Errors to a U2 File Another thing we plan to do with messages some day is to set them up in a messages file, so different languages can be easily handled. It would also be nice to be able to maintain the message without program change - makes sense. On 10 February 2011 09:02, Bill Brutzman bi...@hkmetalcraft.com wrote: Thanks to Susan Joslyn for the excellent article on the Clear Message Initiative. I just received my copy of the magazine in the mail today. It happens that over the weekend, I was reading Code Complete 2 by Steve McConnell of Construx. Following an idea in Code Complete... Yesterday, I told my boss that I am planning to enhance the clarity of our error messages, send a workflow message to others who would need to know about that problem and also to LOG THE ERROR MESSAGE to a U2 file, user, time, date etc. --Bill ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Clear Message Initiative - Logging Errors to a U2 File
I can agree with that of course. I've implemented systems that are architecturally beautiful and easy to maintain :) I was just pointing out that in my experience, this sort of shifting material out of in-line code makes the system harder to maintain not easier. There are many people who have an idea of what they would gain from this, writing their own code, without realizing what problems it can create for the next programmer. I agree with you, that if implemented with the next programmer in mind, it can be done well. W -Original Message- From: Dan McGrath dmc...@imb.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Feb 9, 2011 2:25 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Clear Message Initiative - Logging Errors to a U2 File That only holds if you have implemented it wrong. Spend some time to think about how you would implement it. 1. Have a subroutine/function which handles the error. That is, it displays it as appropriate, as well as logging details as required. You pass it an error number and optional text for the user and optional text for the log. 2. In the user text, you always include the error number. This makes tracking it back to the exact code location easy as pie [find 'CALL MyErrorSub(88,'] We do it with one of our online systems and it is a damn site easier to maintain then other systems using the 'old-school' methodology (ha!) of error reporting. I see so many people blame the general idea of something for the issues they have, rather than the incorrect way it was implemented. A little thought into future maintenance/usage goes a long way... ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Clear Message Initiative - Logging Errors to a U2 File
Universe System(9001) is supposed to be the equivalent of Unidata System(49) W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al
In a message dated 2/8/2011 6:02:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com writes: In the late 80s I worked with Ultimate Pick on a VAX, running software from SMI. That system used RPL as its native programming language. This was the Ultimate PICK that ran on an add-in board. You are the first person I've encountered who ran Pick on top of VMS on the VAX. I am the only person I've met who run it on the MicroVAX. I added that to my article here http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/the-ultimate-corp-aka-ultimate-compute r/4hmquk6fx4gu/703#view ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al
Was your RPL compiler for Universe ever actually installed on a commercial system ? -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Feb 8, 2011 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al I actually wrote an RPL compiler for UniVerse - I guess that was about 15 years ago. It actually started out quite nice.. it did everything in the RPL81 manual and was a tidy piece of C on SunOS. Then I delved into the 'undocumented' functions .. and by the time I had handled as many of those as I could the poor compiler was completely unrecognizable and unmaintainable. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a BLOCK command
George, if I understand your requirement, and your addenda then may I present a solution, which 1) allows ignoring all subsequent actions at any point; and 2) is completely re-arrangeable at whim; and 3) allows any number of conditional testing to be done at any random point within the entire block. As you can see, every sub-area below may be moved up or down the ladder without harming the logic and you don't need the Loop confusion. All you sacrifice is the 3/100ths of a picosecond it takes the system to re-evaluate a condition it already knows. Equate false to 0, true to 1 George.is.done = false Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:33 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a BLOCK command In this particular program, I will be rearranging the blocks of code into different orders, and it's easiest to read the logic of the program top down. If I used subroutines, In order to keep that top down logic, every time I move a subroutine reference in the main code to a new location, I'd also have to move the subroutine code around also so if you were to read the program, it still flow top down, and your not hunting out where each subroutine is. I use the small main with subroutines often. But in this case, readability is the key. None of the other methods are wrong, just in this instance, I'd prefer not to use them. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a BLOCK command On 2/7/2011 4:20 PM, George Gallen wrote: My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's only used once, why not put in the main code. Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... George /listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users I like to use subroutines as a way to shorten my main loop into a nice concise routine. If there is a good logical chunk, why not take it. Even if it is only used once. Something like GET.UPC or HANDLE.KIT ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] A new DML?
Tony I'm not sure this could be true about RPL which is now only available for D3 with variants in jBase and Reality RPL was written initially I believe for the Reality, but was ported as well to Ultimate and *I believe* to MvBase as well. You can still, as far as I can see, get a new Ultimate install, although today they call it Ult-Plus. Are you certain that they do not support RPL being used on the Ultimate system? I'm not saying that they have actually *sold* any in the past five years, just that it seems like they could. Speaking of, the company that wrote RPL might make a good addition to the Pick History series. I learned RPL before I really learned BASIC. -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:58 pm Subject: Re: [U2] A new DML? From: Charles_Shaffer You will never be able to go completely away from UniBASIC while keeping a U2 database. I don't think that's possible. We use Uniobjects on our web servers to access our Unidata servers. Technically we could avoid UniBasic with Uniobjects, although I don't recommend it. It has makes more sense to push the database logic to the database server using Unibasic routines called by Uniobjects. I'll interject that there are two discussions going on here: language bindings outside the DBMS, connecting in via whatever pipes happen to be available (UO, C, Intercall, sockets, etc), and language bindings built into the DBMS alongside BASIC. I'll go on a limb and state my belief emphatically that we will never see another new language implemented within the DBMS itself. (The only other language I've ever seen built over MV was RPL (PQN+), which is now only available for D3 with variants in jBase and Reality). The DBMS vendors have no motivation to undertake the massive effort of creating a new compiler and runtime to operate over the DBMS engine. Claims of new sales potential with mainstream languages can't be substantiated; We obviously already have external bindings and MV sales have never spiked because of it. Now, as I've said recently, we can immediately build our own external language bindings with no help from any of the DBMS providers. Unfortunately this option leaves us to connect in via the above methods, and no matter how fast that happens, it's subject to a performance hit. A much more elegant solution would be an API that dynamically links with the DBMS monitor to perform direct read/write/call and other operations. Maybe someone can tell us if the UO server component really is this closer to the metal interface, but it's always seemed to me that even that server component is one step and a performance hit away from direct DBMS access. With such an API (and direct access for file open/read/write, etc) just about any language can be implemented inside the box, again with no help from the DBMS provider(s). I'm guessing we could count on two hands how many people might actually be intensely interested in any of this. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a BLOCK command
I can easily make this a very trivial program, *if* you will allow me to use a control record :) -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:08 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a BLOCK command That should accomplish the goal, although it brings in a lot of logic checks that confuse the issue of the program. Again, it's the readability that I'm after in this case and the flexibility to move the code. If you needed to step through the code (not with the debugger) with your eyes, there just a lot goin on. With the block / exit format, as you go through the block, once it hit an exit...that's it, your done, next section. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of fft2...@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:59 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a BLOCK command George, if I understand your requirement, and your addenda then may I present a solution, which 1) allows ignoring all subsequent actions at any point; and 2) is completely re-arrangeable at whim; and 3) allows any number of conditional testing to be done at any random point within the entire block. As you can see, every sub-area below may be moved up or down the ladder without harming the logic and you don't need the Loop confusion. All you sacrifice is the 3/100ths of a picosecond it takes the system to re-evaluate a condition it already knows. Equate false to 0, true to 1 George.is.done = false Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:33 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a BLOCK command In this particular program, I will be rearranging the blocks of code into different orders, and it's easiest to read the logic of the program top down. If I used subroutines, In order to keep that top down logic, every time I move a subroutine reference in the main code to a new location, I'd also have to move the subroutine code around also so if you were to read the program, it still flow top down, and your not hunting out where each subroutine is. I use the small main with subroutines often. But in this case, readability is the key. None of the other methods are wrong, just in this instance, I'd prefer not to use them. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a BLOCK command On 2/7/2011 4:20 PM, George Gallen wrote: My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's only used once, why not put in the main code. Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... George /listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users I like to use subroutines as a way to shorten my main loop into a nice concise routine. If there is a good logical chunk, why not take it. Even if it is only used once. Something like GET.UPC or HANDLE.KIT ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list
Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al
I'm thinking it might be good to write up an article about RPL. If any of you has knowledge of the history of the language, the company, etc. you can email me, and we can collaborate on getting it all laid out... straight. Will ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] A new DML?
RPL was a new language binding, which developed from PROC. It was a fully extended language, capable of replacing BASIC in all regards. I wonder if anyone is still running an RPL system anywhere? Another note, per Ian Sandler, writing in or just before 1989, which might be seen as humorous or not... A C compiler will no doubt become widely available for PICK soon. [He always uses 'PICK' not 'Pick'.] Several already exist in various stages of completeness. He then goes on to describe a way to get C code to run anyway. You write it for the specific processor. Then transfer the compiled code to tape. Load the tape on your Pick system and it will execute. He states that he does this. I've never heard of anyone doing this actually. It sounds rather laborious. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
