Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
it may be worth noting that Universe supports file dictionary items that are in the same format as those used in most other databases in the multivalue family. Unidata's dictionary items are considerably different. For what it's worth, several years ago we migrated from an old Ultimate PICK environment to Unidata and there were no issues with dictionary items. Don't know if Ultimate was a standard PICK implementation. I've never worked with Universe, but have worked with Prime Information and didn't see any huge differences. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
As pointed out by George Land and Brian, they're effectively the same except for some very specific features that the average developer or end-user would've generally utilise...so to a great extent it doesn't make a lot of difference to most. To add what already has been said... UniVerse also has: - UV/SQL is embedded into the database engine, not merely tacked on (just to add to what Brian mentions). - UV/Net for transparent file/table access to/from remote UV servers. Some consider it better (more integrated, transparent,etc) than UD's NFA. - Distributed file/table support. Related physical files, either local or remote, can be logically joined as a 'distributed file' - UV's transaction logging supports nested transactions- UV is considered somewhat easier to port an application or databases from PICK-like environments, than UD. UniData has: - UD can support multiple 'instances' or versions of UD on the same server. Whereas you can only have one instance or version of UV installed per server. - better a 'global catalog' / shared memory management for cataloged programs than UV's implementation - currently External Data Access (EDA) is available only on Unidata, but is due to be supported on UniVerse soon. This allow read/write access to third-party databases from your BASIC application, as if it was a native hashed-file. IBM's U2 product web pages do a somewhat lacklustre job of explaining these and other differences. APT Solutions (the UK Master Distributor for IBM U2) website does a better of highlighting them, but doesn't do a feature-by-feature comparison... http://www.u2uk.com/universe.asp http://www.u2uk.com/unidata.asp The probably the biggest thing UD has going for it - the engineering team came from UniData, all the UV guys stayed with the DataStage product (now ironically owned by IBM too). Although, IBM does not give UD any preference at the expense of UV. Although...why do any the developerWorks sample seem to be coded for UD (first)!! :-) Regards David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:00 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata Well I couldn't resist. First, I support products on both databases. Both have broadly the same core multivalue features, though with different approaches to syntactic variances: UniVerse accounts are set up with specific 'flavors' (emulations) whereas UniData uses a combination of a run-time ECL type and option settings. UniVerse supports a wider range of dictionary types. UniData handles sub-values better. UniVerse has nicer Basic syntax, though UniData is catching up. UniVerse has far better support for SQL and offers NLS support. Moreover most of the interfaces used today began life on UniVerse. Until recently UniVerse had better memory handling, fewer arbitary restrictions and was more developer-friendly. It has a wider variety of file types and in general terms historically you have been able to do more with it. UniData by contrast is more keyed to the 'pure' database functionality: it has better recovery features and high availability. It probably has better indexing, and may be a better choice for applications that do large numbers of small transactions. Sometimes the huge flexibility you have with UniVerse can be a double-edged sword: the enquiry language in particular can be 'helpful' to the point of giving sensible looking information even when you screw up. UniData is more pedantic in its syntax, which may just be a good thing! To sum it up: As a developer I prefer UniVerse and develop all my UniData stuff on UniVerse platform, BUT if I were a DBA I would probably think different. Over the years the two products have become ever closer. Most of the middleware has been ported across, and the extension APIs for things like socket handling are mirrorred on both systems. And I'd still rather use each of them than the alternatives. Brian --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
Well I couldn't resist. First, I support products on both databases. Both have broadly the same core multivalue features, though with different approaches to syntactic variances: UniVerse accounts are set up with specific 'flavors' (emulations) whereas UniData uses a combination of a run-time ECL type and option settings. UniVerse supports a wider range of dictionary types. UniData handles sub-values better. UniVerse has nicer Basic syntax, though UniData is catching up. UniVerse has far better support for SQL and offers NLS support. Moreover most of the interfaces used today began life on UniVerse. Until recently UniVerse had better memory handling, fewer arbitary restrictions and was more developer-friendly. It has a wider variety of file types and in general terms historically you have been able to do more with it. UniData by contrast is more keyed to the 'pure' database functionality: it has better recovery features and high availability. It probably has better indexing, and may be a better choice for applications that do large numbers of small transactions. Sometimes the huge flexibility you have with UniVerse can be a double-edged sword: the enquiry language in particular can be 'helpful' to the point of giving sensible looking information even when you screw up. UniData is more pedantic in its syntax, which may just be a good thing! To sum it up: As a developer I prefer UniVerse and develop all my UniData stuff on UniVerse platform, BUT if I were a DBA I would probably think different. Over the years the two products have become ever closer. Most of the middleware has been ported across, and the extension APIs for things like socket handling are mirrorred on both systems. And I'd still rather use each of them than the alternatives. Brian --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
Can anyone in the astute IBM support team give us a comparative database analysis? --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
Fundamentally the two databases deliver the same thing, we may each have personal preferences either way but they will both very competently run your application on Windows, Unix or Linux up to several thousand users. Where the choice does make a difference is in some of the more complex facilities. So if you need native language support because you want to sell in to China, for example, then you need UniVerse. If you want full high availability/disaster recovery then, arguably, you would be better off with UniData - similarly if you want EDA to store you data in DB2 then you want UniData. But unless you need these more advanced/obscure facilities it isn't going to make a great deal of difference which you use. George Land www.u2uk.com On 11/04/2008 22:33, waivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is more like a marking question. I go through the introductions of Universe and Undiata in IBM WebSite. I still have no idea about the difference of these two products execept they are both multivaleue databases. Could anyone give a better explanation about the fundamental difference bewteen Universe and Unidata? ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
For what it's worth, here's my 2 cents. I have and have had UV and UD clients as well as MvBase, D3 and a whole bunch of Wintel native and proprietary variants. I typically inherit the environment although I prefer to migrate all the native clients to D3 for simplicity when the time comes. Except for Microdata which is a tough fit for D3. Regarding my UV/UD clients, I tend to prefer the more native feel of UD although many argue that UV is a more natural upgrade path. In my humble experiences, UV behaved more differently when compared to UD from a native conversion perspective. Personally, I like UD more than UV from the keyboard perspective. For the Microdatas, of which I still have a few, I appreciate that UD can accommodate true PQN proc so the conversion will be easier. Oddly enough, here in NY/NJ there seems to be a higher degree of UV than UD. I'm looking to hire a MV person for a client and UV shows up way more than UD. The client's site is D3 though so there will be a learning curve. All of my UV/UD clients maintain a noticably higher degree of stability than the D3 clients. But under unix, most client's of mine with UV/UD have trained their IT guys under some unix maint whereas the D3's (mostly all W2K) are easily maintained with the IT guys using traditional W2K skills. Mark Johnson - Original Message - From: George Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 4:25 AM Subject: Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata Fundamentally the two databases deliver the same thing, we may each have personal preferences either way but they will both very competently run your application on Windows, Unix or Linux up to several thousand users. Where the choice does make a difference is in some of the more complex facilities. So if you need native language support because you want to sell in to China, for example, then you need UniVerse. If you want full high availability/disaster recovery then, arguably, you would be better off with UniData - similarly if you want EDA to store you data in DB2 then you want UniData. But unless you need these more advanced/obscure facilities it isn't going to make a great deal of difference which you use. George Land www.u2uk.com On 11/04/2008 22:33, waivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is more like a marking question. I go through the introductions of Universe and Undiata in IBM WebSite. I still have no idea about the difference of these two products execept they are both multivaleue databases. Could anyone give a better explanation about the fundamental difference bewteen Universe and Unidata? ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
[U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
This is more like a marking question. I go through the introductions of Universe and Undiata in IBM WebSite. I still have no idea about the difference of these two products execept they are both multivaleue databases. Could anyone give a better explanation about the fundamental difference bewteen Universe and Unidata? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Difference-between-Universe-and-Unidata-tp16629245p16629245.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
UniData is like Clan of the Cave Bears UniVerse (at least the Prime Information syntax) is like 2001 - A Space Odyssey Let the db wars begin. -- Louie --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
Oh, dear! UniData and UniVerse each come with multiple flavors, and each combination of database and flavor has its ardent (sorry, I could not resist!) fans and people who just as fervently despise it. Not knowing waivic's background in terms of previous exposure to multi-value database environments, it is hard to judge which combination waivic will prefer. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, particularly if you get 'under the hood' and look at the way they handle record storage and other intricacies of the database engine. Both have ample toolsets (either built in or available as add-ons from third-party vendors) to accomplish the necessary tasks for developing applications - again, there are variations between the two, but nothing (that I can think of) that would make your goals unattainable. If we had more specifics about waivic's proposed use of the database, and background in multi-value, we as a community could be more helpful, but I fear that a 'holy war' is about to erupt... Peace, all! Susan Lynch F.W. Davison Company, Inc. - Original Message - From: Louie Bergsagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata UniData is like Clan of the Cave Bears UniVerse (at least the Prime Information syntax) is like 2001 - A Space Odyssey Let the db wars begin. -- Louie --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
The first biggest difference (in my opinion) is in the internal storage of data. UniData stores all the keys for a group of records together, with pointers to the data records within each group. UniVerse stores key+record key+record key+record... in a linked list. The second biggest difference is that UniData makes a lot more use of servers, such as a shared memory server. In UniVerse each process manages its own memory. This makes the administration of each product quite different from the other. Each database has variations on its own particular theme. They're both good. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
More information, I have been working with Unidata for more than 5 years. I saw some people here discussed whether Undiata supports Unicode (international characaters) or not and someone mentioned Universe acatually supports Unicode. This got my interest to check the difference bewteen Unidata and Universe. But IBM's website only uses the marketing terminology to describe these two products. That quite confuses me. Could someone give a good explanation about the difference between these two mult-value databases? So I post this question. waivic wrote: This is more like a marking question. I go through the introductions of Universe and Undiata in IBM WebSite. I still have no idea about the difference of these two products execept they are both multivaleue databases. Could anyone give a better explanation about the fundamental difference bewteen Universe and Unidata? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Difference-between-Universe-and-Unidata-tp16629245p16633806.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
Judging from your web page at oasolutions.com, you are not familiar in any detail with any of the multivalue family of databases of which Universe and Unidata are members. If you are, then it may be worth noting that Universe supports file dictionary items that are in the same format as those used in most other databases in the multivalue family. Unidata's dictionary items are considerably different. Therefore, if you have experience with most any of the other multivalue databases and/or if you are planning to migrate software from most any of the other multivalue databases, you will be more comfortable with Universe than with Unidata. Dave Taylor Sysmark Information Systems, Inc. Authorized IBM Business Partner 49 Aspen Way Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274 (O) 800-SYSMARK (800-797-6275) (F) 310-377-3550 (C) 310-561-5200 www.sysmarkinfo.com - Original Message - From: waivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:33 PM Subject: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata This is more like a marking question. I go through the introductions of Universe and Undiata in IBM WebSite. I still have no idea about the difference of these two products execept they are both multivaleue databases. Could anyone give a better explanation about the fundamental difference bewteen Universe and Unidata? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Difference-between-Universe-and-Unidata-tp16629245p16629245.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
