Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
Hi, I reported with Firefox 25.0 experienced problem with Ubuntu 12.04 related in Bugzilla, link is following: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=940862 If anybody would like writing other testcases with experienced a11y related issues with not exists Firefox 24.0, feel free write a comment on the linked report. My short experiences newest Ubuntu 13.10 version Firefox 25.0 usage with Orca more better, but this is not surprising: newest a11y related components, newest Orca, etc. Hopefuly anyway possible fixing this issue under Ubuntu 12.04 without need hold back Firefox 24.0 until end of Ubuntu 12.04 support, or until the next LTS version is ready. Attila -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
Yes, this is all of course very true, and sometimes it's actually easier for a person with a stable life/employment to set asside a few hours a week to contribute to something important. In Spanish a word for will/willingness is voluntad. It takes a certain level of will, and a willingness to forgo some perhaps more pleasurable activities to do significant work on an open source accessability project; to be a volenteer! Making a commitment to give a lot of ones time aand energy to something that may not have any short to medium term payoff is not something that everyone can do, especially someone who has children to support or other first teer responsibilities. On the other hand people who are able choose to give their all to a project and make huge differences in the lives of many every day, not many people percentage wise, but examples are not hard to find when you look. In our case all we have to do is start our computers and we should be reminded of a personal hero of mine, Tony Sales. Other people with the right skill set can and do make a difference over the long haul like Luke who gives of his personal time along with his payed work on Ubuntu accessability. It's about the coming together of time/mental and emotional energy, the right skill set, and some vollenteer spirit. If one has the latter, and some of one of the first two then they are certainly part of the potential team down the line. If you have a bit of all three and are not already doing so, what are you waiting for? Find where you fit in and start working! Enough anylizing and cheerleading. It's time that I get some stuff out of the way so I can work on my skill set! -- On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 04:17:13PM -0600, Christopher Chaltain wrote: I agree with this, but I do have a few caveats. First, looking for a job, whether you're between jobs or between projects, can be a pretty time consuming effort requiring a lot of hard work and a lot of mental toughness. Someone in this position may not have a lot of time to do some programming for free. Second, a programmer looking for that next job or that next project does have to sharpen their skills and make themselves as employable as possible. Although working in the accessibility infrastructure and working on an open source project like Orca or NVDA would definitely build some marketable skills, it isn't going to do as much as contributing to some popular open source project like OpenStack will do for someone's employability. I'm not discouraging anyone from working on AT or contributing to Orca; I'm just saying a blind programmer between jobs or projects may have very legitimate reasons to spend some of that time working on something else or in some other area. On 11/03/2013 11:11 AM, B. Henry wrote: Of course. The other part of this includes more willingness to back such projects financially, but the other angle to consider is that so many blind people are unemployed now. Even if they become pretty good programmers there's not likely going to be work for them all, and even less traditional fulltime work. While one is looking for work they could also sharpen their skills working on the kind of software projects we're talking about here. Others may be content to dedicate some window of time to this work living on some kind of disability paymentss, and on the more extreme edge of the conversation there's the alt economy model. Whether its possible to create a group with the critical mass of talent and deverse skillset needed to be sustainable is not one I'm willing to bet on; but I would certainly consider donating some labor to a person who has made my computer more usable above and beyond the very limited money I can donate to open-source projects. While I don't see a revolution in the making, maybe we can see a significant evolution in thinking and behavior where more users of FOS-access-tech donate to developers. While there's a long way to go, NVDA has made notable progress getting donations from end-users over the last few years. Another thing to consider is that many programmers work on a project basis, not a salary payed by one company. This means that even very good coders with contacts and good work habits are likely to have some down time between projects that they could dedicate to accessibility work, or they could choose to give a couple weeks here and there to something that interests them. Get a job with Google and use your discressionary time to improve g-access...lolThere's nomagic bullet, but I think many of us can organize our lives better on an individual basis, and we can perhaps create some support systems making this easier. -- B.H. On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 04:44:35PM -0500, Christopher Chaltain wrote: I agree with this sentiment, but one challenge I see is that it's hard to make a living doing accessibility programming. If a blind person has the aptitude and becomes
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
Of course. The other part of this includes more willingness to back such projects financially, but the other angle to consider is that so many blind people are unemployed now. Even if they become pretty good programmers there's not likely going to be work for them all, and even less traditional fulltime work. While one is looking for work they could also sharpen their skills working on the kind of software projects we're talking about here. Others may be content to dedicate some window of time to this work living on some kind of disability paymentss, and on the more extreme edge of the conversation there's the alt economy model. Whether its possible to create a group with the critical mass of talent and deverse skillset needed to be sustainable is not one I'm willing to bet on; but I would certainly consider donating some labor to a person who has made my computer more usable above and beyond the very limited money I can donate to open-source projects. While I don't see a revolution in the making, maybe we can see a significant evolution in thinking and behavior where more users of FOS-access-tech donate to developers. While there's a long way to go, NVDA has made notable progress getting donations from end-users over the last few years. Another thing to consider is that many programmers work on a project basis, not a salary payed by one company. This means that even very good coders with contacts and good work habits are likely to have some down time between projects that they could dedicate to accessibility work, or they could choose to give a couple weeks here and there to something that interests them. Get a job with Google and use your discressionary time to improve g-access...lolThere's nomagic bullet, but I think many of us can organize our lives better on an individual basis, and we can perhaps create some support systems making this easier. -- B.H. On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 04:44:35PM -0500, Christopher Chaltain wrote: I agree with this sentiment, but one challenge I see is that it's hard to make a living doing accessibility programming. If a blind person has the aptitude and becomes a programmer then they may have a hard time getting paid to do any accessibility related coding. Of course they could do this in their spare time, but then their time is constrained and it takes a while to come up to speed on some of this access technology infrastructure. On 11/01/2013 07:39 PM, B. Henry wrote: Ah_men! Sadly, neither drugs nor prayer seem to be able to give many blind folk that; and I think we all know of more than a couple bind folks who have both 1 or more degrees and above average inteligence who are unemployed. One alternative is for more of those who have some potential as far as logical thinking and such, and a fair math back ground to learn to code. It's a longer and harder row to hoe, but if enough folks got in to the nuts and bolts of the tech they use so much then most of the money could be taken out of the equation. I have a terrible math background, am over 50 with responsibilities, and a few not very promising hours looking at beginners programing tutorials; so, I''m probably not our boy, but there must be othrs who could really do something. I'm still hoping I can say I've done something real to advance Linux accessibility before I die, but this may not be as concrete as I'd like. On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 07:24:25PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote: No, the thing we need is to become those rich visionaries. How in infinity can we do it? What is the over night, have nothing to have it all quick fix approach to getting blind people into areas of work where they will have real incomes and earn that kind of money so that each of us might be willing to put that few million into it. Instead of waiting for someone else to do it, how in the known universe can we become those people? I'm serious. Any possible answers that might be doable for all of us? -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
one more clue, we are looking for a competent IOS developer. who is blind looking for work. email me directly at gabe.v...@commtechusa.net Thanks Gabe Vega CEO Commtech LLC Web: http://commtechusa.net FaceBook: http://facebook.com/commtechllc Twitter: http://twitter.com/commtechllc Email: i...@commtechusa.net Phone: (888) 351-5289 ext. 710 Fax: (480) 535-7649 On Nov 3, 2013, at 10:11 AM, B. Henry burt1ib...@gmail.com wrote: Of course. The other part of this includes more willingness to back such projects financially, but the other angle to consider is that so many blind people are unemployed now. Even if they become pretty good programmers there's not likely going to be work for them all, and even less traditional fulltime work. While one is looking for work they could also sharpen their skills working on the kind of software projects we're talking about here. Others may be content to dedicate some window of time to this work living on some kind of disability paymentss, and on the more extreme edge of the conversation there's the alt economy model. Whether its possible to create a group with the critical mass of talent and deverse skillset needed to be sustainable is not one I'm willing to bet on; but I would certainly consider donating some labor to a person who has made my computer more usable above and beyond the very limited money I can donate to open-source projects. While I don't see a revolution in the making, maybe we can see a significant evolution in thinking and behavior where more users of FOS-access-tech donate to developers. While there's a long way to go, NVDA has made notable progress getting donations from end-users over the last few years. Another thing to consider is that many programmers work on a project basis, not a salary payed by one company. This means that even very good coders with contacts and good work habits are likely to have some down time between projects that they could dedicate to accessibility work, or they could choose to give a couple weeks here and there to something that interests them. Get a job with Google and use your discressionary time to improve g-access...lolThere's nomagic bullet, but I think many of us can organize our lives better on an individual basis, and we can perhaps create some support systems making this easier. -- B.H. On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 04:44:35PM -0500, Christopher Chaltain wrote: I agree with this sentiment, but one challenge I see is that it's hard to make a living doing accessibility programming. If a blind person has the aptitude and becomes a programmer then they may have a hard time getting paid to do any accessibility related coding. Of course they could do this in their spare time, but then their time is constrained and it takes a while to come up to speed on some of this access technology infrastructure. On 11/01/2013 07:39 PM, B. Henry wrote: Ah_men! Sadly, neither drugs nor prayer seem to be able to give many blind folk that; and I think we all know of more than a couple bind folks who have both 1 or more degrees and above average inteligence who are unemployed. One alternative is for more of those who have some potential as far as logical thinking and such, and a fair math back ground to learn to code. It's a longer and harder row to hoe, but if enough folks got in to the nuts and bolts of the tech they use so much then most of the money could be taken out of the equation. I have a terrible math background, am over 50 with responsibilities, and a few not very promising hours looking at beginners programing tutorials; so, I''m probably not our boy, but there must be othrs who could really do something. I'm still hoping I can say I've done something real to advance Linux accessibility before I die, but this may not be as concrete as I'd like. On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 07:24:25PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote: No, the thing we need is to become those rich visionaries. How in infinity can we do it? What is the over night, have nothing to have it all quick fix approach to getting blind people into areas of work where they will have real incomes and earn that kind of money so that each of us might be willing to put that few million into it. Instead of waiting for someone else to do it, how in the known universe can we become those people? I'm serious. Any possible answers that might be doable for all of us? -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
Have you tried EDX, Coursera or any of those famous ones? They claim to be in favor of open standards. Fernando On 11/02/2013 12:36 AM, Kyle wrote: I'm becoming a big fan of The Saylor Foundation http://saylor.org/ I like their philosophy as well as most of the licensing they've been able to use for their course materials. I just wish they would offer additional formats other than PDF for their reading materials. The first text I read had no issues, but I can't seem to get through the Introduction to Software History, which is required reading, but somehow gets jumbled up by the second or third page during conversion. I was able to read the HTML version of the same document, but the PDF version says it's modified from the original, but I'm not sure how it's modified. Both Evince and Firefox are jumbling it a bit, as are pdftotext and pdftohtml. I really do like the concept though, and hope either their text or our reading tools will improve soon. ~Kyle http://kyle.tk/ -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
free educational materials (was Re: What happened with Firefox 25?)
I hadn't yet looked at any educational sites other than Saylor. I noticed immediately that they have nearly complete fields of study, and that enrollment is fully open; courses can be taken at any time. In fact, enrollment in a course is only required in order to take a final exam. I also like their free as in freedom philosophy. I understand that they aren't able to adhere to it 100% of the time, but they do adhere to it wherever possible. They also seem to use mostly open standards, with the possible exception of PDF, which I have been told is considered to be an open standard these days, even though Adobe still controls the format as far as I knoe. I am able to read the files for the most part, but some still have some layout issues that are making them difficult to read. Everything related to the website appears to be fullly accessible to Orca using Firefox, although I haven't yet tried taking a final exam. Much of the website is powered by WordPress, and the EPortfolio that keeps track of enrolled and completed corses I believe is using Moodle. Some of the course materials may be available in WikiBooks, so I'll try that as an option as well. I plan to also at least take a look at EDX and Coursera, which also sound like good places to get a free or otherwise much more affordable college education. None of them offer free degree programs, but most sites like these appear to have a way to upgrade to a degree or certificate for a very low price compared to the price of a degree or certificate program at a university. ~Kyle http://kyle.tk/ -- Kyle? ... She calls her cake, Kyle? Out of This World, season 2 episode 21 - The Amazing Evie -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
I agree with this sentiment, but one challenge I see is that it's hard to make a living doing accessibility programming. If a blind person has the aptitude and becomes a programmer then they may have a hard time getting paid to do any accessibility related coding. Of course they could do this in their spare time, but then their time is constrained and it takes a while to come up to speed on some of this access technology infrastructure. On 11/01/2013 07:39 PM, B. Henry wrote: Ah_men! Sadly, neither drugs nor prayer seem to be able to give many blind folk that; and I think we all know of more than a couple bind folks who have both 1 or more degrees and above average inteligence who are unemployed. One alternative is for more of those who have some potential as far as logical thinking and such, and a fair math back ground to learn to code. It's a longer and harder row to hoe, but if enough folks got in to the nuts and bolts of the tech they use so much then most of the money could be taken out of the equation. I have a terrible math background, am over 50 with responsibilities, and a few not very promising hours looking at beginners programing tutorials; so, I''m probably not our boy, but there must be othrs who could really do something. I'm still hoping I can say I've done something real to advance Linux accessibility before I die, but this may not be as concrete as I'd like. On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 07:24:25PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote: No, the thing we need is to become those rich visionaries. How in infinity can we do it? What is the over night, have nothing to have it all quick fix approach to getting blind people into areas of work where they will have real incomes and earn that kind of money so that each of us might be willing to put that few million into it. Instead of waiting for someone else to do it, how in the known universe can we become those people? I'm serious. Any possible answers that might be doable for all of us? -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
So, Does anyone really think that if Ubuntu accessibility was say as good as anything out there now in all areas where it's now behind that there’s be enough blind people willing to spend any money to help defray the cost of accessibility work? Hell no! Blind people are probably a tighter lot than others in their economic position, but maybe that's subjective BS. At any rate, if Ubuntu doesn't improve and distinguish itself from other distros they won't even have the resources they now have for accessibility or anything else. Tell your local vocrehab agency, national government, or favorite blind charity to donate some money to Linux accessibility work, anywhere, orca, Canonical, Debian, how bout just a few months of a good accessibility ware coder's time to get xfce fully working with Orca??? Be real. Maybe someone can talk the Gates foundation in to donating a few million to Linux accessibility? Google clearly has the money to do much more re accessibility than they ever have, nd could apply pressure as well as possitive influances on those who twek android for their devices and droid ap devs so tht there's a more or less consistent accessible experience for all. Relly, all we need is one fairly rich visionary to put up say ten million dollars, nothing in the overall scheme of things, towards Linux accessibility and we would see miracles, but even with tht until accessibility is baked in to softwre from the get go we'll hve problms. Education must also change so that anyone going through a formal programing course will have accessible interfaces stressed from day one. -- B.H. On 13-10-30 04:00 PM, Krishnakant Mane wrote: Well, I see that Ubuntu wishes to be on tabs or phones or all other such machines, but I don't clearly see that the vission has accessibility that seriously. These days I hear that android is quite improved on accessibility and has done so pritty quickly. This is what it means by being serious about accessibility. happy hacking. Krishnakant. On 10/31/2013 01:21 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: On 10/30/2013 02:19 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke I agree. It's a shame that Canonical is so focused on replacing GNOME with Unity, replacing Wayland with Mir, building its own cloud deployment solution, putting Ubuntu on every device, that it only has a single developer to spare for access, which is why I've asked for years what meaningful action can be done about that. Even Android pushes out accessibility improvements faster than does Ubuntu these days. But there just doesn't seem like enough interest from Canonical--too busy pandering to their able-bodied users I suppose--so I'm at a loss. The issue isn't resources. It's priorities. I agree it's a shame there aren't more resources for accessibility, and it is obviously a case of priorities and not resources. I don't agree though that it's a case of Canonical just pandering to their able bodied users. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical have a vision of an OS that encompasses smart phones, tablets, laptops, desktops and servers. I want to see this vision succeed, and I want to see ubuntu rival Windows, Android and the Apple OS's. I think this will benefit all computer users, including the blind. Last I knew, Canonical was trying to accomplish this, and build their commercial business, with around 500 employees and has yet to make a profit. I agree we should be clambering for more resources for accessibility and we should be demanding that accessibility be a higher priority, but I don't think that we should be asking Canonical to give up it's vision to accomplish this or that we should mis characterize these efforts as just pandering to their sighted users. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
You hear! That's important! You'll also hear that droid accessibility sucks form others, and I discount both of these as I don't have access to a modern droid device running a recent version to t4est. Besides this, the other points that CJ makes are also important. There may or may not not be more Google employees directly working on android, I don't have a clue and don't care enough to Google the answer up, but the first attempts at android were not accessible as I recall, and when some accessibility enhancements were added it was still a far cry from what existed for the dreaded iphone, which was not accessible in its first versions. Just to point out even another difference consider that there are currently at least 900,000,000 nine hundred million, android devices activated in the world, and estimates of Ubuntu usage seem to be around 20,000,000, twenty million. Even if those figures are off by more than one would imagine logically, we are talking tens of millions compared with hundreds of millions. HKK, you are someone I respect and like from what little I know, so please understand I'm attacking your logic, not you. I, and even occasionally my very level headed CJ once in a while make off the cuff statements that don't hold water when put to the test...lol If Ubuntu captures significant market share, and I'm not even saying they have to be #3 overall in the mobile market, they certainly will need to make a strong effort to have a nicely accessible touch interface. I even think there's bit of room for criticism for their accessibility work now, but on the other hand it's ahead of other Linux distros. I am hoping for the best, won't be surprised much by pretty bad, and am expecting something in between to tell the truth as far as Ubuntu accessibility goes in the next year or so. Maybe by 2016's lts we'll have well integrated ccessible touch...not betting more than a drink or home cooked meal on it though! -- B.H. n 13-10-30 04:13 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: I don't understand the analogy with Android. Android runs on smart phones and tablets and a few other devices. It doesn't run on laptops, desktops or servers. It isn't clear what the future relationship will be between Android and ChromeOS. Canonical has 500 employees, the last I knew, and not all of these were working on Ubuntu development. How many employees does Google have and how many developers are working on Android? Canonical is not making a profit. What is Google's profit and the other companies contributing to Android? As the saying goes, I think comparing Ubuntu to Android is like comparing apples to oranges. On 10/30/2013 05:00 PM, Krishnakant Mane wrote: Well, I see that Ubuntu wishes to be on tabs or phones or all other such machines, but I don't clearly see that the vission has accessibility that seriously. These days I hear that android is quite improved on accessibility and has done so pritty quickly. This is what it means by being serious about accessibility. happy hacking. Krishnakant. On 10/31/2013 01:21 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: On 10/30/2013 02:19 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke I agree. It's a shame that Canonical is so focused on replacing GNOME with Unity, replacing Wayland with Mir, building its own cloud deployment solution, putting Ubuntu on every device, that it only has a single developer to spare for access, which is why I've asked for years what meaningful action can be done about that. Even Android pushes out accessibility improvements faster than does Ubuntu these days. But there just doesn't seem like enough interest from Canonical--too busy pandering to their able-bodied users I suppose--so I'm at a loss. The issue isn't resources. It's priorities. I agree it's a shame there aren't more resources for accessibility, and it is obviously a case of priorities and not resources. I don't agree though that it's a case of Canonical just pandering to their able bodied users. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical have a vision of an OS that encompasses smart phones, tablets, laptops, desktops and servers. I want to see this vision succeed, and I want to see ubuntu rival Windows, Android and the Apple OS's. I think this will benefit all computer users, including the blind. Last I knew, Canonical was trying to accomplish this, and build their commercial business, with around 500 employees and has yet to make a profit. I agree we should be clambering for more resources for accessibility and we should be demanding that accessibility be a higher priority, but I don't think that we should be asking Canonical to give up it's vision to accomplish this or that we should mis characterize these efforts as just pandering to their sighted users. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
Ah_men! Sadly, neither drugs nor prayer seem to be able to give many blind folk that; and I think we all know of more than a couple bind folks who have both 1 or more degrees and above average inteligence who are unemployed. One alternative is for more of those who have some potential as far as logical thinking and such, and a fair math back ground to learn to code. It's a longer and harder row to hoe, but if enough folks got in to the nuts and bolts of the tech they use so much then most of the money could be taken out of the equation. I have a terrible math background, am over 50 with responsibilities, and a few not very promising hours looking at beginners programing tutorials; so, I''m probably not our boy, but there must be othrs who could really do something. I'm still hoping I can say I've done something real to advance Linux accessibility before I die, but this may not be as concrete as I'd like. On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 07:24:25PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote: No, the thing we need is to become those rich visionaries. How in infinity can we do it? What is the over night, have nothing to have it all quick fix approach to getting blind people into areas of work where they will have real incomes and earn that kind of money so that each of us might be willing to put that few million into it. Instead of waiting for someone else to do it, how in the known universe can we become those people? I'm serious. Any possible answers that might be doable for all of us? -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
Nuke degrees. I am not the best at math, but I have real savant skills when it comes to anything with a digital component. I am working with tutorials to try and catch up on the stuff that I didn't have access to in school. I like coding, in fact, it's what I actually got this machine for, and I hope to put it to good use one day soon. As for math, it was my worst skill in school, but having all the math tools I have on here seems to solve that problem. Once more, a few learning ally textbooks and some net-based tutorials can take care of the problem. You're right, I think that, if we can take most or all the money out of these tech situations, the best possibility for blind people to be employed would be to form our own society, build some kind of generation ship and attempt to colonize another star. This would keep the pervasive low expectations out of the equation as well and we would have only ourselves to blame if something went wrong. Thanks. -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
I'm becoming a big fan of The Saylor Foundation http://saylor.org/ I like their philosophy as well as most of the licensing they've been able to use for their course materials. I just wish they would offer additional formats other than PDF for their reading materials. The first text I read had no issues, but I can't seem to get through the Introduction to Software History, which is required reading, but somehow gets jumbled up by the second or third page during conversion. I was able to read the HTML version of the same document, but the PDF version says it's modified from the original, but I'm not sure how it's modified. Both Evince and Firefox are jumbling it a bit, as are pdftotext and pdftohtml. I really do like the concept though, and hope either their text or our reading tools will improve soon. ~Kyle http://kyle.tk/ -- Kyle? ... She calls her cake, Kyle? Out of This World, season 2 episode 21 - The Amazing Evie -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
I am not meaning to hijack this thread, but I just want to thank you, Kyle, for sharing about Saylor; I have not heard about this mine of educational materials. I cannot afford to go back to school right now due to my current circumstances, but I want to continue learning. This looks like a great opportunity. Thanks again! On 11/01/2013 07:36 PM, Kyle wrote: I'm becoming a big fan of The Saylor Foundation http://saylor.org/ I like their philosophy as well as most of the licensing they've been able to use for their course materials. I just wish they would offer additional formats other than PDF for their reading materials. The first text I read had no issues, but I can't seem to get through the Introduction to Software History, which is required reading, but somehow gets jumbled up by the second or third page during conversion. I was able to read the HTML version of the same document, but the PDF version says it's modified from the original, but I'm not sure how it's modified. Both Evince and Firefox are jumbling it a bit, as are pdftotext and pdftohtml. I really do like the concept though, and hope either their text or our reading tools will improve soon. ~Kyle http://kyle.tk/ -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:04:59PM PDT, Hammer Attila wrote: Hi Luke, Usual I get this crash after I launched Firefox 25.0 and doed some heading level navigations and scrolling, for example following webpages: http://vakbarat.index.hu Ok, mind filing a bug in launchpad against at-spi2-core, and attach the crash to that bug? I'll then get the retracers to update the bug with proper tracebacks so we can take this upstream more easily. Thanks Luke -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
FWIW, the upgrade went fine under 13.04, no problems whatsoever. That's my biggest criticism with only making LTS releases accessible. The accessibility infrastructure moves on and improves, and browsers rapidly acquire new and game-changing capabilities like Web RTC/Web Audio at a rapid rate. Yet, unless I misunderstand, 12.04 is still stuck on an older AT-SPI that may break when a browser upgrades. On 10/30/2013 10:56 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:04:59PM PDT, Hammer Attila wrote: Hi Luke, Usual I get this crash after I launched Firefox 25.0 and doed some heading level navigations and scrolling, for example following webpages: http://vakbarat.index.hu Ok, mind filing a bug in launchpad against at-spi2-core, and attach the crash to that bug? I'll then get the retracers to update the bug with proper tracebacks so we can take this upstream more easily. Thanks Luke -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 09:14:48AM PDT, Nolan Darilek wrote: FWIW, the upgrade went fine under 13.04, no problems whatsoever. That's my biggest criticism with only making LTS releases accessible. The accessibility infrastructure moves on and improves, and browsers rapidly acquire new and game-changing capabilities like Web RTC/Web Audio at a rapid rate. Yet, unless I misunderstand, 12.04 is still stuck on an older AT-SPI that may break when a browser upgrades. If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 09:14:48AM PDT, Nolan Darilek wrote: FWIW, the upgrade went fine under 13.04, no problems whatsoever. That's my biggest criticism with only making LTS releases accessible. The accessibility infrastructure moves on and improves, and browsers rapidly acquire new and game-changing capabilities like Web RTC/Web Audio at a rapid rate. Yet, unless I misunderstand, 12.04 is still stuck on an older AT-SPI that may break when a browser upgrades. If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Do we know if this is fixed with a newer at-spi? I too wish we had more resources to make the interim release, as well as the LTS releases more accessible, but I've seen accessibility regressions with Firefox and thunderbird even with newer versions of the accessibility stack. Luke -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke I agree. It's a shame that Canonical is so focused on replacing GNOME with Unity, replacing Wayland with Mir, building its own cloud deployment solution, putting Ubuntu on every device, that it only has a single developer to spare for access, which is why I've asked for years what meaningful action can be done about that. Even Android pushes out accessibility improvements faster than does Ubuntu these days. But there just doesn't seem like enough interest from Canonical--too busy pandering to their able-bodied users I suppose--so I'm at a loss. The issue isn't resources. It's priorities. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
On 10/30/2013 02:19 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke I agree. It's a shame that Canonical is so focused on replacing GNOME with Unity, replacing Wayland with Mir, building its own cloud deployment solution, putting Ubuntu on every device, that it only has a single developer to spare for access, which is why I've asked for years what meaningful action can be done about that. Even Android pushes out accessibility improvements faster than does Ubuntu these days. But there just doesn't seem like enough interest from Canonical--too busy pandering to their able-bodied users I suppose--so I'm at a loss. The issue isn't resources. It's priorities. I agree it's a shame there aren't more resources for accessibility, and it is obviously a case of priorities and not resources. I don't agree though that it's a case of Canonical just pandering to their able bodied users. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical have a vision of an OS that encompasses smart phones, tablets, laptops, desktops and servers. I want to see this vision succeed, and I want to see ubuntu rival Windows, Android and the Apple OS's. I think this will benefit all computer users, including the blind. Last I knew, Canonical was trying to accomplish this, and build their commercial business, with around 500 employees and has yet to make a profit. I agree we should be clambering for more resources for accessibility and we should be demanding that accessibility be a higher priority, but I don't think that we should be asking Canonical to give up it's vision to accomplish this or that we should mis characterize these efforts as just pandering to their sighted users. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.infowrote: On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke I agree. It's a shame that Canonical is so focused on replacing GNOME with Unity, replacing Wayland with Mir, building its own cloud deployment solution, putting Ubuntu on every device, that it only has a single developer to spare for access, which is why I've asked for years what meaningful action can be done about that. Even Android pushes out accessibility improvements faster than does Ubuntu these days. But there just doesn't seem like enough interest from Canonical--too busy pandering to their able-bodied users I suppose--so I'm at a loss. The issue isn't resources. It's priorities. There are more people than Canonical working with the different Ubuntu based distributions. One way is to get engaged in the communities. As for most of the community driven projects I would say that resources is a main factor that one need to prioritise the work you put in. Myself, I got a full time job, learning the ropes on how to be a parent and juggle my time with a lot of activities. When I get the opportunity to contribute to a project (Ubuntu Studio in my case) I have to prioritise where to put my small contribution. For the 13.10 release I tried to get in accessibility in the ISOs, but due to not having enough time (resource) I could not do enough testing to make it work and the result was that speech with orca was not supported on the ISOs (though brltty and orca are). /Jimmy -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
Well, I see that Ubuntu wishes to be on tabs or phones or all other such machines, but I don't clearly see that the vission has accessibility that seriously. These days I hear that android is quite improved on accessibility and has done so pritty quickly. This is what it means by being serious about accessibility. happy hacking. Krishnakant. On 10/31/2013 01:21 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: On 10/30/2013 02:19 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke I agree. It's a shame that Canonical is so focused on replacing GNOME with Unity, replacing Wayland with Mir, building its own cloud deployment solution, putting Ubuntu on every device, that it only has a single developer to spare for access, which is why I've asked for years what meaningful action can be done about that. Even Android pushes out accessibility improvements faster than does Ubuntu these days. But there just doesn't seem like enough interest from Canonical--too busy pandering to their able-bodied users I suppose--so I'm at a loss. The issue isn't resources. It's priorities. I agree it's a shame there aren't more resources for accessibility, and it is obviously a case of priorities and not resources. I don't agree though that it's a case of Canonical just pandering to their able bodied users. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical have a vision of an OS that encompasses smart phones, tablets, laptops, desktops and servers. I want to see this vision succeed, and I want to see ubuntu rival Windows, Android and the Apple OS's. I think this will benefit all computer users, including the blind. Last I knew, Canonical was trying to accomplish this, and build their commercial business, with around 500 employees and has yet to make a profit. I agree we should be clambering for more resources for accessibility and we should be demanding that accessibility be a higher priority, but I don't think that we should be asking Canonical to give up it's vision to accomplish this or that we should mis characterize these efforts as just pandering to their sighted users. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
I don't understand the analogy with Android. Android runs on smart phones and tablets and a few other devices. It doesn't run on laptops, desktops or servers. It isn't clear what the future relationship will be between Android and ChromeOS. Canonical has 500 employees, the last I knew, and not all of these were working on Ubuntu development. How many employees does Google have and how many developers are working on Android? Canonical is not making a profit. What is Google's profit and the other companies contributing to Android? As the saying goes, I think comparing Ubuntu to Android is like comparing apples to oranges. On 10/30/2013 05:00 PM, Krishnakant Mane wrote: Well, I see that Ubuntu wishes to be on tabs or phones or all other such machines, but I don't clearly see that the vission has accessibility that seriously. These days I hear that android is quite improved on accessibility and has done so pritty quickly. This is what it means by being serious about accessibility. happy hacking. Krishnakant. On 10/31/2013 01:21 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: On 10/30/2013 02:19 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke I agree. It's a shame that Canonical is so focused on replacing GNOME with Unity, replacing Wayland with Mir, building its own cloud deployment solution, putting Ubuntu on every device, that it only has a single developer to spare for access, which is why I've asked for years what meaningful action can be done about that. Even Android pushes out accessibility improvements faster than does Ubuntu these days. But there just doesn't seem like enough interest from Canonical--too busy pandering to their able-bodied users I suppose--so I'm at a loss. The issue isn't resources. It's priorities. I agree it's a shame there aren't more resources for accessibility, and it is obviously a case of priorities and not resources. I don't agree though that it's a case of Canonical just pandering to their able bodied users. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical have a vision of an OS that encompasses smart phones, tablets, laptops, desktops and servers. I want to see this vision succeed, and I want to see ubuntu rival Windows, Android and the Apple OS's. I think this will benefit all computer users, including the blind. Last I knew, Canonical was trying to accomplish this, and build their commercial business, with around 500 employees and has yet to make a profit. I agree we should be clambering for more resources for accessibility and we should be demanding that accessibility be a higher priority, but I don't think that we should be asking Canonical to give up it's vision to accomplish this or that we should mis characterize these efforts as just pandering to their sighted users. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
It is just that it is an ICT and as far as android is concerned, for what ever it is ment, they take accessibility seriously. Ubuntu is also an ICT (software/ OS of any kind is an important ICT component ). So it is natural to think of accessibility and compare. yet I agree that Google may have more employees. That is one point we must take into consideration. perhaps it is llike comparing a smaller oringe to a bigger one. happy hacking. Krishnakant. On 10/31/2013 03:43 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: I don't understand the analogy with Android. Android runs on smart phones and tablets and a few other devices. It doesn't run on laptops, desktops or servers. It isn't clear what the future relationship will be between Android and ChromeOS. Canonical has 500 employees, the last I knew, and not all of these were working on Ubuntu development. How many employees does Google have and how many developers are working on Android? Canonical is not making a profit. What is Google's profit and the other companies contributing to Android? As the saying goes, I think comparing Ubuntu to Android is like comparing apples to oranges. On 10/30/2013 05:00 PM, Krishnakant Mane wrote: Well, I see that Ubuntu wishes to be on tabs or phones or all other such machines, but I don't clearly see that the vission has accessibility that seriously. These days I hear that android is quite improved on accessibility and has done so pritty quickly. This is what it means by being serious about accessibility. happy hacking. Krishnakant. On 10/31/2013 01:21 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: On 10/30/2013 02:19 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: On 10/30/2013 11:19 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: If there were more resources, more effort could be put into supporting interim releases. Luke I agree. It's a shame that Canonical is so focused on replacing GNOME with Unity, replacing Wayland with Mir, building its own cloud deployment solution, putting Ubuntu on every device, that it only has a single developer to spare for access, which is why I've asked for years what meaningful action can be done about that. Even Android pushes out accessibility improvements faster than does Ubuntu these days. But there just doesn't seem like enough interest from Canonical--too busy pandering to their able-bodied users I suppose--so I'm at a loss. The issue isn't resources. It's priorities. I agree it's a shame there aren't more resources for accessibility, and it is obviously a case of priorities and not resources. I don't agree though that it's a case of Canonical just pandering to their able bodied users. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical have a vision of an OS that encompasses smart phones, tablets, laptops, desktops and servers. I want to see this vision succeed, and I want to see ubuntu rival Windows, Android and the Apple OS's. I think this will benefit all computer users, including the blind. Last I knew, Canonical was trying to accomplish this, and build their commercial business, with around 500 employees and has yet to make a profit. I agree we should be clambering for more resources for accessibility and we should be demanding that accessibility be a higher priority, but I don't think that we should be asking Canonical to give up it's vision to accomplish this or that we should mis characterize these efforts as just pandering to their sighted users. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
What happened with Firefox 25?
Hi, This day morning Firefox upgraded with latest 25.0 release my Ubuntu 12.04 machine. After the upgrade, the browser me machine is unusable with Orca. An example webpage with I experienced this issue: http://www.origo.hu/hirmondo/techbazis/internet/20131029-4g-re-gyur-a-telekom.html This webpage unable to scroll the opened articles with line by line. When I press CTRL+HOME keystroke and a down arrow, the caret jumping wrong place. Anybody experienced similar issues? How to fix this issues? Attila -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:13:41PM PDT, Hammer Attila wrote: Hi, I tried renaming my .mozilla folder with an another name to determine an old configuration preference producing this issue or not, and testing this issue an another machine. Unfortunately the .mozilla folder temporary rename is not helped. I looked the /var/crash folder after I try navigating some webpages, and I found the at-spi2-core service is crashed. I attaching the crash file. Are you able to regularly reproduce the crash? If so, does the crash occur at login or when you attempt to load firefox? Thanks for the crash file, I'm just unpacking it now and getting a backtrace from it. Luke -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
