[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) Status: Confirmed = Fix Released -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
the bug is not in gnome-control-center ** Changed in: gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) Status: New = Invalid ** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) Status: Invalid = Confirmed -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
** Also affects: xkeyboard-config (Debian) via http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=436993 Importance: Unknown Status: Unknown -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Debian) Status: Unknown = Fix Released -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Cristi, Windows XP users can generate their own keyboard layouts or can download one of yours if they want to generate ș and ț. Users that have the problem you talk about can easily go around it. What does Yahoo mail have to do with this bug? As you said yourself, the encoding doesn't support cedilla characters either. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
The users affected may very well install the update from Microsoft even after they access text with the comma characters. They see the text is rendered incorrectly and they install the update. Problem solved. I've seen it happen numerous times amongst people I communicate with. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Mihai: XP users will probably not know where to get that patch, or they would have gotten it by now. I think they'll just get annoyed. There's enough garbage fonts on various sites for them to assume something is broken at the sender/website. Ctomer: depends on how many pepe will use the new Ubuntu, it may or not may be significant. You need to think it as a percentage of Romanian users not of everyone. Otherwise we may claim this bug affects an even smaller fraction of users :) Mișu (heh, a side effect of this thread is that I actually may start using diacritics :) : the bug is indeed in xkeyboard-config not the UI. /etc/X11/xkb/rules/base.xml, part of xkb-data only lists the 3 romanian layouts, so both Debian installer (and Ubiquity) and the GNOME keyboard dialog will show those. Do you agree this needs a change at xkeyboard-config level? -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
So lets assume Academic is set to default in Ubuntu's next release. How many Windows XP user will be affected by this change? It would only be Romanian XP users who access content written by Romanian users of the very latest version of Ubuntu, right? That's not a significant number of users, is it? -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Mihai, 1) how do those users know they need an update to see the characters? 2) is this not avaliable only for those who have alegal copy of XP (a small percentage) -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Well, I'm glad we finally agree that the whole issue is about the default layout in Ubuntu's graphical tool and that there are no incorrect characters in the xkeyboard-config file. Thank you for renaming and reassigning. I also think that the descriptive names in the graphical tool should be consistent with the ones in Vista and Secărică's layouts. Mihai, you still have to realize that the XP problem is not something easily circumvented. Most XP users don't have either the know-how or the administrative rights to fix the display and input issues regarding commabelow diacritics. You need to be an administrator to install the MS hotfix and Secărică's layouts. I know plenty of knowledgeable people in corporate environments who don't have the necessary rights to do it. There is also the very common scenario in which the home user has the admin rights but has no idea how to fix the problem, which he/she thinks is not his/her problem. Cristi Secărică has also mentioned that you need to pass the MS genuine validation in order to install the hotfix, something that many Romanian XP installations will fail to do, given the very high piracy rate in our country. Also, in regards to ctomer's latest reply, Romanian XP users who access content written by Romanian users of the very latest version of Ubuntu may not be a significant number of users but they surely are a very significant *proportion* of the users that access that content. Please consider the above when deciding what to set as default in Ubuntu. I know that the average clueless users are not nearly as vocal as the (not necessarily more knowledgeable) early adopters, but please take into consideration the technical facts which unfortunately translate into the sad reality of the currently very poor support for reading commabelow diacritics. I did my best to ease this for users of free software by extending the DejaVu font family of fonts with the necessary glyphs and by fully implementing the new keyboard standard in xkeyboard-config years ago, but I still think it's not the right time to change the defaults in the RO keyboard layout. Let's not share the pain of the early Romanian Vista adopters that are now seeking ways to write again with broken diacritics. I think Vista is doomed to replace XP as the dominant desktop/workstation OS in the not so distant future, so the whole issue will settle in time. It may well be that Ubuntu's no. 1 bug is taking over the world of computing but until then, please let's keep in touch with reality. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Jani, I don't have the /etc/X11/xkb/rules/base.xml file in Gentoo, it probably is part of the old X.Org xkbdata data (the Gentoo package of x11-misc/xkbdata conflicts with the installed x11-misc/xkeyboard-config package). The Debian installer and Ubiquity should use the new xkeyboard-config data. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Mișu, I'm sorry to say this, but I don't agree. The issue is with xkeyboard-config's default layout as well. We also don't seem to agree about the correctness of the characters: the cedilla ones are incorrect but we use them for a very clear reason. Please tell me where I'm wrong. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Further investigation in the xkeyboard-layout package reveals the following in the rules/base.xml.in file: layout configItem namero/name _shortDescriptionRou/_shortDescription _descriptionRomania/_description /configItem variantList variant configItem namestd/name _descriptionStandard/_description /configItem /variant variant configItem namewinkeys/name _descriptionWinkeys/_description /configItem /variant /variantList /layout layout I'm not sure why this is, I'll probably fill a bug in the xkeyboard- config bugzilla. However, the problem is outside the RO xkeyboard-config file, so it will be up to the package maintainers to fix it. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Jani, I was talking about users that saw broken characters in emails or instant messages I sent them. They complained and I let them know there is a patch that fixes their problem. I didn't know we were providing solutions for and adapting Ubuntu to users of unlicensed Windows XP, but if this is the case you should know Windows Genuine Advantage is easily broken and a quick googling will reveal how to avoid WGA checks. Cristi, I totally agree. We must do something about this problem, not wait for Vista to take over the market. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
right, so even if not in the romanian layout file, it is in a part of an xkeyboard-config supplied file that should be authored by romanians. So that file needs the comma and academic layouts mentioned and they'll be picked up by any GUI that uses xkb. Since there is going to be a change in xkb I think it's time to get change the names as well to have something sane in the long term. Surprise for current users who are more knowledgable is more desirable than inflicting confusing legacy names on all users for years to come. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Mihai, if I had started using diacritics and someone chatting with me had told me they're broken I would have not known there's a patch for XP. Please stop ignoring the fact that most people have no idea what patches are, do not know about WGA etc. They just see the computer is doing yet another annoying thing. I think we should move to standard layouts sooner rater than later, but by _being aware_ of the implications and risks and trying to mitigate them, not by waving them out of the way as if they didn't exist. Please stop saying XP users will know what to do. Mostly they won't. And additionally there's the admin rights thing Cristi bought up. So we need to expose the comma layouts from xkb-data. That is necessary regardless of which will be the default. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Jani, I fully understand that people don't know much about computers and just want to use them. This is precisely why I want the default layout to be correct, because people will never change it. People will be writing with incorrect characters until the default changes. I don't think anybody is opposed to the exposing of the comma layouts. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Cristi, the situation regarding UTF-8 support is quite good in Linux. Most modern graphical apps have no problems. However, there are still console apps in use which do not support UTF-8 and maybe some ancient GTK+ 1.x packages. I'm not sure about the Linux console though. Jani, I'm not really sure what that xml file is used for. I certainly haven't added the existing std and winkeys variants in it, they were probably filled in by one of the maintainers. There also seem to be plenty of variants in the symbols/* files that are not represented in that file. Regarding apps that graphically expose existing xkb variants to users, I know at least one case in which the GUI directly picks up the variants from the symbols/* files, KDE's control center does that. I will further investigate this issue and will probably report it in xkeyboard-config bugzilla. Mihai, I'm not sure what points you disagree on now. It may well not be your fault, as this interface is not well suited for debates. However, I cannot see the end of our contradiction regarding the correctness of the diacritics in the RO xkeyboard-config file. The general discussions over diacritics, layouts, UTF-8, xkeyboard- config etc. should probably take place somewhere else, we shouldn't pollute this bug report with endless debates. I would suggest the Diacritice mailing list, a place for people interested in Romanian localization of free software to discuss general localization issues: http://groups.google.ro/group/diacritice . That should also ease the communication as it is throughly suited for discussions. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Mișu, I agree. We should continue our debate on the Diacritice mailing list and return to this bug when we have reached a conclusion. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Hey, hey I have a patch for the presentation issue. I used the names Programmers, Standard, Programmers (cedilla), Standard (cedilla) resulting in a dialog like the one in the attached image. ** Attachment added: gnome's layout choices now http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8765731/Captur%C4%83%20ecran%20-%20Alege%C5%A3i%20un%20aranjament.png -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
The brother Debian bug of this bug is 436993 http://bugs.debian.org/436993 The patch I made is available there. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI
Let's not forget there's a patch from Microsoft that adds support for ș and ț in Windows XP. -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
