Re: GParted installed by default?
On Dec 6, 2007 1:48 PM, Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GParted is still installed on the live-CD, and was installed on hard disk by default in the past. I don't believe this latter statement is true, except perhaps by a temporary bug in some milestone CD images [1]. An exhaustive search of the germinate output for all previous releases states that it has only ever been installed on the live CD, and not intentionally copied to the hard disk. So, no posts in this thread for some days... I'm still interested to know whether it's somebody's decision or just random that GParted isn't installed. Who would know? And where to suggest to change it, if not here? File a bug? Against what/who? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
Op donderdag 06-12-2007 om 12:48 uur [tijdzone +], schreef Colin Watson: On Mon, Dec 03, 2007 at 10:26:35PM +0100, Jan Claeys wrote: GParted is still installed on the live-CD, and was installed on hard disk by default in the past. I don't believe this latter statement is true, except perhaps by a temporary bug in some milestone CD images [1]. An exhaustive search of the germinate output for all previous releases states that it has only ever been installed on the live CD, and not intentionally copied to the hard disk. That seems to be true, but why remove it while it's on the live CD already? -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
On Tuesday 04 December 2007 10:59:17 Markus Hitter wrote: Not including non-essential administration tools reduces confusion and enhances user experience. BTW:, obviously, somebody decided disk space is tight. Gutsy doesn't come with a working C compiler either, which I'd consider far more essential than a graphical partition editor (think about installing non-packaged software). Markus Just a small note: GParted already comes on the CD. So it aint about Disk space. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
Am 04.12.2007 um 07:58 schrieb Dane Mutters: On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 15:57 +0100, Jonas Jørgensen wrote: I would consider partition editing a basic feature that should be provided by the operating system For advanced users, I agree. For average users, partitioning is something they shouldn't even get in touch with. Note: even without gparted, one can still partition from the command line using fdisk, cfdisk, or parted, but this obviously isn't ideal for an inexperienced user who just wants to partition/ format an external drive or some such. As drives come partitioned off the store, why should a normal user have a need to change this partitioning at all? gparted (or any partitioning software) is a pretty dangerous tool for the unexperienced user. Two, three wrong clicks and the whole system is gone to a state where only expert users can recover data. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
On 04/12/07 17:30, Markus Hitter wrote: As drives come partitioned off the store, why should a normal user have a need to change this partitioning at all? Well, for one, how are you supposed to tell Ubuntu that you have just installed a new HDD? (Other than opening up fstab and editing it :) gparted (or any partitioning software) is a pretty dangerous tool for the unexperienced user. Two, three wrong clicks and the whole system is gone to a state where only expert users can recover data. Sure, that is true, but then you could say that about a whole lot of tools. For example, if you were to type sudo rm -rf / into a terminal window, then you'd also loose a fair whack of your system. My point is this, there are many tools that have the chance of killing your computer, let alone 17 year old drivers in a car on a freeway where a wrong move could really wreck your day. Just because there are things that are dangerous... -- Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S31°54'06 - E115°50'39 (Yokine, WA) -- ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno.. |?..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
On Dec 4, 2007 9:30 AM, Markus Hitter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 04.12.2007 um 07:58 schrieb Dane Mutters: On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 15:57 +0100, Jonas Jørgensen wrote: I would consider partition editing a basic feature that should be provided by the operating system For advanced users, I agree. For average users, partitioning is something they shouldn't even get in touch with. [...] [...] why should a normal user have a need to change this partitioning at all? A normal/average user won't ever use GParted, nor will they ever use many of the other tools in System-Administration -- but that isn't an argument for not including those tools. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
Am 04.12.2007 um 09:51 schrieb Onno Benschop: On 04/12/07 17:30, Markus Hitter wrote: As drives come partitioned off the store, why should a normal user have a need to change this partitioning at all? Well, for one, how are you supposed to tell Ubuntu that you have just installed a new HDD? (Other than opening up fstab and editing it :) You don't. Removable hardware just appears (gets automounted) and changing/adding internal disks includes a reboot anyways, making them appear automatically after that. Average users carry their computer to a repair store if they feel something needs to be changed inside the case. Am 04.12.2007 um 10:11 schrieb Jonas Jørgensen: A normal/average user won't ever use GParted, nor will they ever use many of the other tools in System-Administration -- but that isn't an argument for not including those tools. Not including non-essential administration tools reduces confusion and enhances user experience. BTW:, obviously, somebody decided disk space is tight. Gutsy doesn't come with a working C compiler either, which I'd consider far more essential than a graphical partition editor (think about installing non-packaged software). Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 11:59 +0100, Markus Hitter wrote: Am 04.12.2007 um 10:11 schrieb Jonas Jørgensen: A normal/average user won't ever use GParted, nor will they ever use many of the other tools in System-Administration -- but that isn't an argument for not including those tools. Not including non-essential administration tools reduces confusion and enhances user experience. BTW:, obviously, somebody decided disk space is tight. Gutsy doesn't come with a working C compiler either, which I'd consider far more essential than a graphical partition editor (think about installing non-packaged software). Markus An advanced windows user knows how to install new hard drives, they shouldn't have to find the right package to install as well - new drives should just work. I reckon our desktop users are much more likely to install a new hard drive than compile a package. I don't know why you think my Ubuntu experience is improved by giving me less configuration options than Windows. Caroline -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
Am 04.12.2007 um 22:12 schrieb Caroline Ford: An advanced windows user knows how to install new hard drives, [...] Yes. Ubuntu says it exists to make _un_experienced users productive. new drives should just work. gparted won't help here. If you want to make sure new, even unformatted drives just work, you have to provide some sort of one- click formating on the desktop. Something like An unknown disk was found: [ignore] [initialise]. Initialise would format a single partition without asking further technical questions. Firing up the right application, finding the right disk in a partitioning GUI and making a making a good decision what to do is far beyond what an average human knows or wants to know. Even people like me (25 years of computing experience) have to find out each time what's the current state of device naming (hda, sda, disk1s3, which order, ...). I don't know why you think my Ubuntu experience is improved by giving me less configuration options than Windows. Since when is MS Windows a measure for good user experience? After all, your favorite partitioner is just a apt-get install away. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
Op dinsdag 04-12-2007 om 11:59 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Markus Hitter: Gutsy doesn't come with a working C compiler either, which I'd consider far more essential than a graphical partition editor (think about installing non-packaged software). Actually, GCC is available in the small CD-repository on the Gutsy live/install CDs, and GParted is available inside the live-CD... -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
Am 05.12.2007 um 00:47 schrieb Jan Claeys: Op dinsdag 04-12-2007 om 11:59 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Markus Hitter: Gutsy doesn't come with a working C compiler either, which I'd consider far more essential than a graphical partition editor (think about installing non-packaged software). Actually, GCC is available in the small CD-repository on the Gutsy live/install CDs The version installed is incomplete: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.1/+bug/163453 Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
Op maandag 03-12-2007 om 15:57 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Jonas Jørgensen: I would like to ask whether it has been considered to make GParted part of the default desktop install, and if so what the reasons were for not including it. I would consider partition editing a basic feature that should be provided by the operating system and not as an add-on program. The fact that the menu entry installs into System-Administration rather than the Applications menu proves this point, I think. GParted is still installed on the live-CD, and was installed on hard disk by default in the past. Is there any documentation on why it isn't copied during install anymore? -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
