Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Tuesday, March 07, 2017 a las 03:11:37PM +0100, Marcin escribió:

> If that's the case, I think we might still get better support even with 
> no further new-functionality OTAs with Ubuntu ;)

+1 (even if it would run Android v6)

The best option, apart of the current OTA-15, before having a new snap
device would be the new Nokia 3310: no viruses, nobody is spying after you or
collecting your Internet data.

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045
Aus "Nie wieder Krieg!" wurde "Nie wieder Krieg ohne Deutschlands Truppen"
The "No wars anymore!" changed now to "No wars anymore without German battle 
groups!"
El "¡Nunca jamás guerra!" ha cambiado a "¡Nunca jamás guerra sin tropas 
alemanas!" 

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Marcin]

Hi Marcin,

Is the device still supported by Android by the way? When I was 
interested in flashing the device (just in case - still happy with it 
now) - I learned that latest Android that can be installed on E4.5 is v5.


If that's the case, I think we might still get better support even with 
no further new-functionality OTAs with Ubuntu ;)


--
Regards,

Marcin Waśko


On 03/05/2017 12:38 PM, Marcin Xc wrote:
I can live with bugs for some time but I can't live without hope that 
these bugs will be fixed. As You can read in a bug report 1612367, 
many people find their devices useless and unreliable. If Canonical 
was an honest player, they would give us at least once a week an 
information about what's going on: either "people your devices are no 
longer suported, flash them with Android. We made a mistake E4.5 can't 
handle our system" or "people hang on, it is gonna last a few months 
but the critical bugs will be fixed. Canonical, is this such a hard task?


Ps. 1612367 is not a hardware problem.



*From:* Paul Tait <paultai...@hotmail.com>
*To:* "ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net" 
<ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net>

*Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 2:53 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

I think that it may be more a case of you've been extremely lucky, or 
I have been extremely unlucky. Although many others have had the same 
issues:

Silent Incoming Calls:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1612367
Battery Inexplicably Drains:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1458756
Which, incidentally was filed by you Matthias in May 2015. Despite two 
years passing and a new power manager, the problem still persists, at 
least for me. Did you find a solution to it then?


On 03/03/17 17:04, Matthias Apitz wrote:

We.must have.either completely different use cases, or different phones.

matthias, writing from an E4.5






--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone 
<https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
Post to: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net 
<mailto:ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net>
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone 
<https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>

More help  : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp




-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Mathijs Veen]

I am with Lukasz. I have been critical at times on certain topics but I
consider the current Ubuntu phone state very usable.

The battery issue hasn't occured for over a year. The silent call issue
maybe happened once or twice over the last year.
I -like all of us I assume- do have my own set of bugs that i wish had been
fixed a long time ago. But it is certainly not like androids are without
bugs.

The GPS sat-nav app with uNav is always spot-on now and a delight to use.
Both phone and tablet connect to bt keyb & mouse which is quite usefull on
occasion, sometimes connecting a large screen to the M10.
Musicplayer, Telegram, Calendar, Browser etc do the job. Owncloud/NextCloud
support is a real blessing
etc..
But the most important thing is that I know pretty much what code is
running on my phone and what my apps are doing with my data. That gives me
the best feeling about this OS. And is not something I can get on any other
phone that is on par with the Ubuntu touch platform.

I am still using the Meizu Pro5, the M10 tablet on a daily basis. The phone
is my daily driver and although I am plagued by the odd unity crash (which
is not nice, but I still need to investigate myself) it certainly does not
feel like a frustrating experience.

Apart from these devices, I fire up a second hand Nexus5 with the UBports
image regularly. This, I have to say, is the best performing UT phone I
have used ever. (besides the Meizu Pro 5, I used to own a N4, a BQ e4.5 and
a Galaxy Nexus. so I feel I am in a position to make that call :) ).
In smoothness the Nexus5 outperforms the Meizu easily. A big, big hattip to
Marius for this.
The only reason I am not using it as a daily driver is the lack of dual
sim, which i can't do without.

I think I heard Marius state (some time ago) that once there is some kind
of snap beta for phones, he would be happy to try porting that. This I
guess means that besides the porting effort, would mean either rebuilding
for a 32 bit platform for one of the current UBport phones, or else
choosing a new 64 bit capable device and do a new port to that.

So my question to Marius and the other devs at UBports is: is this still
something you guys would want to do given a Canonical provided x64 beta
snap image on a phone?

And to Canonical: Would it be possible on -lets say- the Meizu Pro 5 to get
a snap image out there that the community (starting with the UBPorts guys)
could run with? (Possibly after the 17.04 release?)

I believe it could be really beneficial to both if we could build an active
alpha/beta testing community around an actual Ubuntu snap based phone.

Cheers,

Mathijs
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Marcin Xc]

I can live with bugs for some time but I can't live without hope that these 
bugs will be fixed. As You can read in a bug report 1612367, many people find 
their devices useless and unreliable. If Canonical was an honest player, they 
would give us at least once a week an information about what's going on: either 
"people your devices are no longer suported, flash them with Android. We made a 
mistake E4.5 can't handle our system" or "people hang on, it is gonna last a 
few months but the critical bugs will be fixed. Canonical, is this such a hard 
task?
Ps. 1612367 is not a hardware problem.

  From: Paul Tait <paultai...@hotmail.com>
 To: "ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net" <ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net> 
 Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 2:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona
   
I think that it may be more a case of you've been extremely lucky, or I have 
been extremely unlucky. Although many others have had the same issues:Silent 
Incoming Calls: 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1612367
Battery Inexplicably 
Drains:https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1458756Which,
 incidentally was filed by you Matthias in May 2015. Despite two years passing 
and a new power manager, the problem still persists, at least for me. Did you 
find a solution to it then?

On 03/03/17 17:04, Matthias Apitz wrote:

We.must have.either completely different use cases, or different phones. 

matthias, writing from an E4.5 






-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to    : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help  : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


   -- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Francisco Pina Martins]

Here are my 0.02€.

I never had the issue of silent calls (or any other notification), at 
least as far as I can tell.


I did have the battery drain issue a few times, but it was always solved 
with a restart of the phone and a full charge.


After reading the posts on this mailing list (I'm sorry, I can't 
remember the names of the authors, but it involved one of canonical or 
BQ's engineer) on how batteries actually work, I have changed my habits 
and now I charge the phone every night. Approximately once per month I 
let it drain to close to 10%, for calibration. Reaching this charage 
level takes about 3 days of my regular weekend usage (so less 
[calls|email|sms|etc] than normal on a week day). I never had the 
battery drain issue again.


Also, like Walter, I'm pretty much hoping my E4.5 will last until the 
next snap based device is available.



Francisco


On 04-03-2017 16:02, Walter Garcia-Fontes wrote:

* Matthias Apitz, g...@unixarea.de [04/03/17 16:08]:

El día Saturday, March 04, 2017 a las 01:53:57PM +, Paul Tait escribió:


I think that it may be more a case of you've been extremely lucky, or I have 
been extremely unlucky. Although many others have had the same issues:

Silent Incoming Calls:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1612367

I never faced this issue.

I had a case of hardware failure, not software. The speakers started
failing sometimes, and then always, in my BQ E5 (not E4.5). I sent it
for repair to BQ and it was fixed and had my phone back in four
days. It failed again, I think once in a month, and I got the sound
back by pressing on the  back iat the bottom part with both fingers,
with the screen facing me (as I read in Internet from users with
Android). It looks like failing speakers is a common issue in this
model of BQ, also with Android, I don't know about the E4.5.


Battery Inexplicably Drains:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1458756

Which, incidentally was filed by you Matthias in May 2015. Despite two years 
passing and a new power manager, the problem still persists, at least for me. 
Did you find a solution to it then?

I do not have it quite often, and if it happened I just recharge the
device without any problem.


I saw this a couple of times, haven't seen it for three months or so
now. In may case, restarting the phone fixed it. I think in my case it
was caused by some misbehaving application.

But overall my BQ E5 with UT is very usable, unless the hardware
fails I think I may be able to make it last until (hopefully) we have
a snap-based device.





--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Walter Garcia-Fontes]

* Matthias Apitz, g...@unixarea.de [04/03/17 16:08]:
> El día Saturday, March 04, 2017 a las 01:53:57PM +, Paul Tait escribió:
> 
> > I think that it may be more a case of you've been extremely lucky, or I 
> > have been extremely unlucky. Although many others have had the same issues:
> > 
> > Silent Incoming Calls:
> > 
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1612367
> 
> I never faced this issue.

I had a case of hardware failure, not software. The speakers started
failing sometimes, and then always, in my BQ E5 (not E4.5). I sent it
for repair to BQ and it was fixed and had my phone back in four
days. It failed again, I think once in a month, and I got the sound
back by pressing on the  back iat the bottom part with both fingers,
with the screen facing me (as I read in Internet from users with
Android). It looks like failing speakers is a common issue in this
model of BQ, also with Android, I don't know about the E4.5. 

> 
> > Battery Inexplicably Drains:
> > 
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1458756
> > 
> > Which, incidentally was filed by you Matthias in May 2015. Despite two 
> > years passing and a new power manager, the problem still persists, at least 
> > for me. Did you find a solution to it then?
> 
> I do not have it quite often, and if it happened I just recharge the
> device without any problem.
> 

I saw this a couple of times, haven't seen it for three months or so
now. In may case, restarting the phone fixed it. I think in my case it
was caused by some misbehaving application. 

But overall my BQ E5 with UT is very usable, unless the hardware
fails I think I may be able to make it last until (hopefully) we have
a snap-based device. 


-- 
Walter Garcia-Fontes
L'Hospitalet de Llobregat

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Saturday, March 04, 2017 a las 01:53:57PM +, Paul Tait escribió:

> I think that it may be more a case of you've been extremely lucky, or I have 
> been extremely unlucky. Although many others have had the same issues:
> 
> Silent Incoming Calls:
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1612367

I never faced this issue.

> Battery Inexplicably Drains:
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1458756
> 
> Which, incidentally was filed by you Matthias in May 2015. Despite two years 
> passing and a new power manager, the problem still persists, at least for me. 
> Did you find a solution to it then?

I do not have it quite often, and if it happened I just recharge the
device without any problem.

matthias


-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045
Aus "Nie wieder Krieg!" wurde "Nie wieder Krieg ohne Deutschlands Truppen"
The "No wars anymore!" changed now to "No wars anymore without German battle 
groups!"
El "¡Nunca jamás guerra!" ha cambiado a "¡Nunca jamás guerra sin tropas 
alemanas!" 

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Marek Greško]

Hello,

I confirm both issues and consider both of them critical.

Marek



2017-03-04 14:53 GMT+01:00 Paul Tait :

> I think that it may be more a case of you've been extremely lucky, or I
> have been extremely unlucky. Although many others have had the same issues:
>
> Silent Incoming Calls:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1612367
>
> Battery Inexplicably Drains:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1458756
>
> Which, incidentally was filed by you Matthias in May 2015. Despite two
> years passing and a new power manager, the problem still persists, at least
> for me. Did you find a solution to it then?
>
>
> On 03/03/17 17:04, Matthias Apitz wrote:
>
> We.must have.either completely different use cases, or different phones.
>
> matthias, writing from an E4.5
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Paul Tait]

I think that it may be more a case of you've been extremely lucky, or I have 
been extremely unlucky. Although many others have had the same issues:

Silent Incoming Calls:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1612367

Battery Inexplicably Drains:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1458756

Which, incidentally was filed by you Matthias in May 2015. Despite two years 
passing and a new power manager, the problem still persists, at least for me. 
Did you find a solution to it then?


On 03/03/17 17:04, Matthias Apitz wrote:
We.must have.either completely different use cases, or different phones.

matthias, writing from an E4.5




-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Stephen]

Lucas

You wrote "I used the Meizu MX4 with touch as my main phone for a long time"

"Used" is past-tense - what do you use now, and are you expecting to use 
Ubuntu Personal (snap) in the future, and if so, on what phone?


btw, I bought a new Meizu Pro 5 (Flyme) and flashed Ubuntu turbo on it. 
Love it, especially uNav turn-by-turn navigation without Google tracking 
everything! It is now my main phone.


Cheers
Stephen

--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Lukasz Zemczak]

Hey,

Just a quick personal post from my side. I used the Meizu MX4 with
touch as my main phone for a long time and I really didn't think it
was bad; I actually consider it a really decent phone. I was always a
bit puzzled when I saw people mentioning how unreliable Ubuntu Touch
was in some cases in comparison to others. Sure, it wasn't perfect,
but my Android phone had very similar issues. The Sony Xperia Z I used
before was sluggish, applications sometimes hanged, had issues getting
GPS location and data was sometimes unreliable - same things, some
maybe just happening a little bit less frequently. But for me I never
really felt this huge gap some people were mentioning, but maybe I'm
not really a very demanding user. Even the lack of applications didn't
really bother me, as I had everything I used on an Android phone (but
I must confess that I don't really use too many of those).

Maybe when someone was part of the initiative creating a phone
operating system you tend to get more tolerant of issues, since you
know what a big and complicated venture this is. I'll never know for
sure.

Cheers,


On 3 March 2017 at 18:04, Matthias Apitz  wrote:
> On Friday, 3 March 2017 16:54:40 CET, Paul Tait 
> wrote:
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, overall this is the best phone that I have ever owned
>> I just wish it was reliable. However it didn't gain the traction that it was
>> intended to and that Canonical wanted. That is at least partly to do with
>> the countless bugs and bad reviews. The phone (the E4.5 at least) is beset
>> with unsolved/unsolvable problems that make it almost useless as a phone.
>> ...
>
>
> We.must have.either completely different use cases, or different phones.
>
> matthias, writing from an E4.5
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from my Ubuntu phone
> http://www.unixarea.de/
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp



-- 
Łukasz 'sil2100' Zemczak
 Foundations Team
 lukasz.zemc...@canonical.com
 www.canonical.com

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[mark]

Surely we must have either a *32-bit Snap image, or a 64-bit **official 
phone.


m

* A 32-bit snap would benefit users on older desktops/laptops too.

** A Fairphone 2b?


We.must have.either completely different use cases, or different phones.

matthias, writing from an E4.5 
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Paul Tait]

Don't get me wrong, overall this is the best phone that I have ever owned I 
just wish it was reliable. However it didn't gain the traction that it was 
intended to and that Canonical wanted. That is at least partly to do with the 
countless bugs and bad reviews. The phone (the E4.5 at least) is beset with 
unsolved/unsolvable problems that make it almost useless as a phone. The silent 
texts and calls for one are an annoyance but the power problems are a massive 
annoyance. The power percentage is meaningless as it will frequently nose dive 
without warning or reason. Moreover it will continue to count down to 0% - even 
when plugged in! If you miss it, and it turns off before you can reach a 
charger you get another two annoying bugs - radio lock (no wireless and no 
mobile) and all internal memory used up which you then have to spend time 
almost every day trying to resolve.

I would be typing this on my phone, but I just had the nosedive and turned my 
phone off. Now, despite it stating the battery is at 34%, it won't turn back 
on, even when plugged in, until it reaches 100% (I just checked my phone and it 
now actually says 33%! That's right, even when off, plugged in and charging, 
the percentage sometimes goes down!)

Why am I mentioning this? Because this is an officially supported phone, the 
first one. This is literally as good as it got. These phones were not a 
success, they were afflicted by all sorts of problems. This is why I doubt 
there will be any more official ones, and even if there are, why (despite 
liking the phones) I won't be buying another and I am sure that I am not alone.

It is also why I fear for the future if they go down the community phones 
route. If this is how bad the official phones run, what chance have community 
phones? How well does Ubuntu even run on the Fairphone 2?

I remember 10+ years ago running Dapper Drake on my laptop, unfortunately sound 
never worked at all but I put up with it because it was better than using 
Windows in so many ways. I wouldn't put up with it now. And I fear that is the 
only way we're going to be able to use Ubuntu Phones in the future. With lots 
of compromises and bugs.

Paul.

On 28/02/17 16:52, Matthias Apitz wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 17:37:03 CET, Paul Tait 
 wrote:
But there is a world of difference between having a system that is capable of 
running on multiple devices and platforms such IoT, phones, servers, desktops 
and tablets and partnering with a manufacturer and ensuring that it runs and 
performs well on that specific device.

Fully ACK.


That didn't work out so well with BQ

NAK

matthias



-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Matthias Apitz]

On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 17:37:03 CET, Paul Tait 
 wrote:
But there is a world of difference between having a system that is capable 
of running on multiple devices and platforms such IoT, phones, servers, 
desktops and tablets and partnering with a manufacturer and ensuring that 
it runs and performs well on that specific device. 


Fully ACK.


That didn't work out so 
well with BQ


NAK

matthias


--
Sent from my Ubuntu phone
http://www.unixarea.de/

--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Paul Tait]

But there is a world of difference between having a system that is capable 
of running on multiple devices and platforms such IoT, phones, servers, 
desktops and tablets and partnering with a manufacturer and ensuring that 
it runs and performs well on that specific device. That didn't work out so 
well with BQ and Meizu. 

Far better to have the base and let the community port and support it on 
the devices that they want to use it on. Less headaches and risk for 
Canonical. That seems to me to be the direction that we're heading. 

The fact that no new phones or devices have been announced or even an 
intention that there will be, coupled with the fact there is still no 
official word about support for current devices leads me to that 
conclusion. 

I could be wrong, but it is undeniable that Canonical's focus has shifted, 
and it isn't just down to snap. 

Paul. 


On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 09:28:37 GMT, Mathijs Veen wrote:

> I don't think Rodney Dawes was saying that at all, and it doesnt really add
> up with what Canonical is doing at the moment: focusing on Unity8 (be it
> mostly on desktop atm)
> One needs, I think, to keep being aware of WHY Canonical wants to move to
> unity8: because -in the end- they want one interface for all devices. Not
> just the desktop. If desktop was all that they wanted, why would they
> invest soo much on a new Unity version based on Qt and have a new display
> server run it? They would need only to invest a fraction of their time to
> improve and tweak Unity7 and they would be scoring much more points with
> the 20 milion+ desktop users they have now. 


-- 
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Nathan Haines]

On 02/28/2017 01:28 AM, Mathijs Veen wrote:

The additional move from click to  snap has slowed us down and that is
unfortunate. Canonical sort of shot themselves in the foot by
introducing .clicks first. Click has been nucleus of what snap is now
but the move from one to the other has obviously set them back. For
histories sake, i would be very interested to know whether or not it was
already decided in 2013 at the launch of the first ubuntu touch image
that .click was  going to be a temporary thing. Snap is an additional
improvement on Ubuntu but it doesnt say anything about the strategy for
phones/tablets one way or another.


Canonical has been pretty clear all along that snaps were basically 
click 2.0, and they took the lessons learned from developing a 
self-contained packaging format and decided that by extending that, they 
could create something that would actually fulfill a role on all Ubuntu 
devices in a universal manner.


We can see pretty clearly that while snaps have some issues to overcome 
(confinement is *really* hard to introduce in a way that doesn't cripple 
apps that were not designed with confinement in mind), the progress 
since April has been incredible, and today I can enjoy the latest 
version of LibreOffice or run Nextcloud on a server without worrying 
about my version of Ubuntu or what version is in the repositories.


This universal, Ubuntu Core-based developer story is what will allow a 
developer to package an app with very little regard to compatibility and 
let it run on any Ubuntu device, be it phone, tablet, desktop, or 
server.  This has been slower progress on the architectural side, but 
because this allows developers to target Ubuntu 16.04 and package their 
dependencies, it means that as support rolls out to hardware and 
devices, any snap will run anywhere.


Even with Ubuntu Core images for different reference platforms, all of 
the hardware enablement is contained in a single snap.  If you snapify 
the drivers and boot enablement for a platform, you only have to take 
the core snap and create an image and you have a system.  This is 
radically simpler than the current "build a read-only image that wraps 
all the drivers and Ubuntu ecosystem and default software."  It will be 
a case of a hardware enablement project handling the gadget snap that 
enables the hardware, throwing in the core snap, the unity8 snap, and 
whatever default applications they want to offer, and creating an image.


The road ahead is rocky, and I'm not happy that the Nexus 7 I bought 
specifically for Ubuntu is worthless for that now (although it makes a 
decent YouTube/Netflix player under Android 6.0).  But the Ubuntu phones 
were always marketed as developer reference platforms, and in the end, 
the transition to snaps should make snap-compatible platforms effortless 
to support.


So yes, Canonical's promises to support devices for two LTSes is broken, 
and that's not pleasant.  But the full-snap-based images of the future 
are going to be something that work across all Ubuntu form factors. 
Cloud, server, desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone.  And while it may be 
cold comfort for current device holders, it's going to bring that 
promise of full convergence to reality.


I'm looking forward to it.

--
Nathan Haines
Ubuntu - http://www.ubuntu.com/

--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Mathijs Veen]

There will be
no further phones or any other official or specific devices. Any future
phones will be community ports to existing devices. Am I the only one
getting that impression?

I don't think Rodney Dawes was saying that at all, and it doesnt really add
up with what Canonical is doing at the moment: focusing on Unity8 (be it
mostly on desktop atm)
One needs, I think, to keep being aware of WHY Canonical wants to move to
unity8: because -in the end- they want one interface for all devices. Not
just the desktop. If desktop was all that they wanted, why would they
invest soo much on a new Unity version based on Qt and have a new display
server run it? They would need only to invest a fraction of their time to
improve and tweak Unity7 and they would be scoring much more points with
the 20 milion+ desktop users they have now.
But they dont. They pour most of the resources into Unity8 right now. They
would only do this if, in time, they really want and expect to power phones
and tablets again. In other words: the very fact that Canonical is working
hard on Unity8 is actually proof they are NOT abandoning phones and tablets.
Only if Canonical were to announce that they are ditching their Unity8
efforts is when i would get worried about the future of phones.

The additional move from click to  snap has slowed us down and that is
unfortunate. Canonical sort of shot themselves in the foot by introducing
.clicks first. Click has been nucleus of what snap is now but the move from
one to the other has obviously set them back. For histories sake, i would
be very interested to know whether or not it was already decided in 2013 at
the launch of the first ubuntu touch image that .click was  going to be a
temporary thing. Snap is an additional improvement on Ubuntu but it doesnt
say anything about the strategy for phones/tablets one way or another.

The worrysome part of Rodney Dawses last message is that he is obviously
saying that getting Unity8 to run with all that was developed on/for
phablet on desktop AND have it run properly  AND have it all running in a
snap environment is still going to take loads of work.
The additional problem I see now is that all the changes to Unity8 over the
last couple of months are -as far as we can tell- not being propperly
tested on touch devices. So I expect there will be quite a few
surprises/regressions to solve once U8 will be ported back to a phone.

So you are right in not expecting new devices any time soon. And I join you
in hoping we will see a developer Alpha snap-based release cadence for at
least the M10 and Meizu Pro5 so people can get a sense of what is and isnt
working on mobile atm and get some feedback going.

The fairphone 'push' is just what Canonical has always been doing:
supporting Community efforts. Nothing more or less. I don't see how it is
proof that Canonical has pulled back from the phone/tablet market.

Cheers,

Mathijs

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 2:37 PM, Paul Tait  wrote:

> The impression that I got was that the reason that the phones had been
> abandoned was because of the version of Android that was supported on the
> devices and therefore the kernel version it can run and the drivers that
> are available? As no-one is going to add support for newer Android versions
> and kernels, the phone is dead. Is that incorrect?
>
> Likewise the Fairphone 2 only supports Android 5, so is just as dead and
> will never support snaps or a snap based image. Is this not the case? This
> is certainly the impression that I have.
>
> Finally reading the big push that Canonical is giving the Fairphone 2,
> something not seen since the first phones launch, one can only conclude
> that this is the way forward and the reason for the silence. There will be
> no further phones or any other official or specific devices. Any future
> phones will be community ports to existing devices. Am I the only one
> getting that impression?
>
> Paul.
>
> On Friday, 24 February 2017 21:14:28 GMT, Rodney Dawes wrote:
> > On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 21:37 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> >>
> >> Why Canonical is not supporting the existing BQ E4.5 and E5 devices
> >> with
> >> a new officially supported image and why you leave us alone (apart of
> >> security updates)
> >> and without any visible upgrade path, not even to a new hardware?
> >
> > This is not something I am able to answer.
> >
>
>
> --
> Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Terence Sambo]

How so have you been backed into a corner? The idea of convergence is that
you could develop Qt+QML for the desktop too...

Greetings,
Terence

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM Unix One  wrote:

> On 02/26/2017 11:05 AM, Rodney Dawes wrote:
> > On Sun, 2017-02-26 at 18:09 +, Unix One wrote:
> >> As for Ubuntu Touch phones, since 100% of existing phone devices are
> >> 32-bit, there are no 64-bit phones even being planned (at least
> >> publicly), wiping 32-bit future official support outright alienates
> >> the
> >> core power users and developers - i.e. pretty much everyone - in a
> >> frustrating way.
> >
> > Both the BQ M10 tablet and Meizu Pro 5 phone are 64-bit hardware. The
> > userland is currently only 32-bit there, because arm64 was not
> > supported on 15.04, which the current phone/tablet images are based on.
> > That would reduce your figure to 60% (if you're only talking official
> > retail devices, or 50% if counting both M10 FHD/HD separately).
> >
>
> I'm sorry! I take the 100% number back. But talking about phones
> (different use case from tablets entirely) specifically, I wasn't sure
> Meizu Pro 5 accounted for 20% of all existing phone devices; I'd thought
> that number would be somewhere in a single digit percentage. Are you
> counting % against available device models, or % of physical devices
> currently in the hands of users?
>
> Regardless, assuming the Meizu Pro 5 will continue to receive
> 64-bit/snap updates (which I haven't officially seen confirmed either),
> the rest of the statement - potentially alienating 80% of phone users -
> stands.
>
> On a personal side note, I really enjoy Qt+QML development, but my
> choices are - a Meizu Pro 5 degraded coverage (radio frequencies) from
> an unreputable online seller in $300-$500 range, or another
> refurbished/used mako which won't be updated. It feels like I've been
> backed into a corner.
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
-- 

Groeten,
Terence

NB: Deze mail is op een telefoon samengesteld en kan
daardoor zpelvouten bevatten.
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Unix One]

On 02/26/2017 11:05 AM, Rodney Dawes wrote:
> On Sun, 2017-02-26 at 18:09 +, Unix One wrote:
>> As for Ubuntu Touch phones, since 100% of existing phone devices are
>> 32-bit, there are no 64-bit phones even being planned (at least
>> publicly), wiping 32-bit future official support outright alienates
>> the
>> core power users and developers - i.e. pretty much everyone - in a
>> frustrating way.
>
> Both the BQ M10 tablet and Meizu Pro 5 phone are 64-bit hardware. The
> userland is currently only 32-bit there, because arm64 was not
> supported on 15.04, which the current phone/tablet images are based on.
> That would reduce your figure to 60% (if you're only talking official
> retail devices, or 50% if counting both M10 FHD/HD separately).
>

I'm sorry! I take the 100% number back. But talking about phones 
(different use case from tablets entirely) specifically, I wasn't sure 
Meizu Pro 5 accounted for 20% of all existing phone devices; I'd thought 
that number would be somewhere in a single digit percentage. Are you 
counting % against available device models, or % of physical devices 
currently in the hands of users?

Regardless, assuming the Meizu Pro 5 will continue to receive 
64-bit/snap updates (which I haven't officially seen confirmed either), 
the rest of the statement - potentially alienating 80% of phone users - 
stands.

On a personal side note, I really enjoy Qt+QML development, but my 
choices are - a Meizu Pro 5 degraded coverage (radio frequencies) from 
an unreputable online seller in $300-$500 range, or another 
refurbished/used mako which won't be updated. It feels like I've been 
backed into a corner.
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Paul Tait]

The impression that I got was that the reason that the phones had been 
abandoned was because of the version of Android that was supported on the 
devices and therefore the kernel version it can run and the drivers that 
are available? As no-one is going to add support for newer Android versions 
and kernels, the phone is dead. Is that incorrect? 

Likewise the Fairphone 2 only supports Android 5, so is just as dead and 
will never support snaps or a snap based image. Is this not the case? This 
is certainly the impression that I have. 

Finally reading the big push that Canonical is giving the Fairphone 2, 
something not seen since the first phones launch, one can only conclude 
that this is the way forward and the reason for the silence. There will be 
no further phones or any other official or specific devices. Any future 
phones will be community ports to existing devices. Am I the only one 
getting that impression? 

Paul. 

On Friday, 24 February 2017 21:14:28 GMT, Rodney Dawes wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 21:37 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
>> 
>> Why Canonical is not supporting the existing BQ E4.5 and E5 devices
>> with
>> a new officially supported image and why you leave us alone (apart of
>> security updates)
>> and without any visible upgrade path, not even to a new hardware?
> 
> This is not something I am able to answer.
>


-- 
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Rodney Dawes]

On Sun, 2017-02-26 at 21:12 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> El día Sunday, February 26, 2017 a las 02:05:01PM -0500, Rodney Dawes
> escribió:
> 
> > 
> > Both the BQ M10 tablet and Meizu Pro 5 phone are 64-bit hardware.
> > The
> > userland is currently only 32-bit there, because arm64 was not
> > supported on 15.04, which the current phone/tablet images are based
> > on.
> > That would reduce your figure to 60% (if you're only talking
> > official
> > retail devices, or 50% if counting both M10 FHD/HD separately).
> I do own a BQ M10 tablet. This is a fine device, but not a phone. I
> does
> not even has SIM slots, and if it would has, it is a bit complicated
> to
> held it on the ear for phone talking :-)

Well, you can always use a headset and Hangouts or something. :)

> Having said this, when we could have an image from Canonical for the
> M10 with
> snap?

When it's ready (or more than likely, before it's "ready" given that
this is indeed Ubuntu we're talking about and things like this happen
more publicly), I would presume. If/when any snap based images for
devices are available, I'm sure they'll also get announced.

There's been a lot of work to get Unity 8 and all the related
components that make up what's on the phone/tablet, working on PCs, and
in a snap environment, but there's still a lot of work left to do for
proper confinement to work. I don't personally have a list of all the
various bits left to do, but I do know it's quite a lot, including a
need for some new features in snapd itself, before a snap based system
could be on par with current device images.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Sunday, February 26, 2017 a las 02:05:01PM -0500, Rodney Dawes escribió:

> Both the BQ M10 tablet and Meizu Pro 5 phone are 64-bit hardware. The
> userland is currently only 32-bit there, because arm64 was not
> supported on 15.04, which the current phone/tablet images are based on.
> That would reduce your figure to 60% (if you're only talking official
> retail devices, or 50% if counting both M10 FHD/HD separately).

I do own a BQ M10 tablet. This is a fine device, but not a phone. I does
not even has SIM slots, and if it would has, it is a bit complicated to
held it on the ear for phone talking :-)

Having said this, when we could have an image from Canonical for the M10 with
snap?

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045
Aus "Nie wieder Krieg!" wurde "Nie wieder Krieg ohne Deutschlands Truppen"
The "No wars anymore!" changed now to "No wars anymore without German battle 
groups!"
El "¡Nunca jamás guerra!" ha cambiado a "¡Nunca jamás guerra sin tropas 
alemanas!" 

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Rodney Dawes]

On Sun, 2017-02-26 at 18:09 +, Unix One wrote:
> As for Ubuntu Touch phones, since 100% of existing phone devices are 
> 32-bit, there are no 64-bit phones even being planned (at least 
> publicly), wiping 32-bit future official support outright alienates
> the 
> core power users and developers - i.e. pretty much everyone - in a 
> frustrating way.

Both the BQ M10 tablet and Meizu Pro 5 phone are 64-bit hardware. The
userland is currently only 32-bit there, because arm64 was not
supported on 15.04, which the current phone/tablet images are based on.
That would reduce your figure to 60% (if you're only talking official
retail devices, or 50% if counting both M10 FHD/HD separately).


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[mark]

I guess we're now waiting either for someone in the community to build a 
32-bit kernel that can handle Snap based images, or a 64-bit Fairphone 2+.


I have to agree that it does seem most un-Linux-like behaviour.


m


On 26/02/17 15:09, Unix One wrote:

On 02/24/2017 12:10 PM, Rodney Dawes wrote:

On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 18:28 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:

It is, because the click pkg are EOL and the snap require 64-bit

No. Anyone should be able to create snap based images for 32-bit
devices if they wish. However, I think as only new devices coming to
market at this point are really going to be 64-bit, the goal is to only
support 64-bit for official device images. For example, see the
discussions previously about no longer building final release ISOs of
Ubuntu for i386, or how there haven't been ones for PowerPC for a while
now. However, both of those architectures are still built in the
archive, and some derivatives still build releases for those
architectures.

In my mind, this logic makes complete sense, as it does for Ubuntu i386
example, if most devices on the market are 64-bit and it is of very
little benefit to support older hardware via official channels. In fact,
Ubuntu has indeed officially supported i386 concurrently with 64-bit
during many years of transition.

As for Ubuntu Touch phones, since 100% of existing phone devices are
32-bit, there are no 64-bit phones even being planned (at least
publicly), wiping 32-bit future official support outright alienates the
core power users and developers - i.e. pretty much everyone - in a
frustrating way.

Sure, community could decide to backport Ubuntu Touch updates to legacy
phones (has anyone volunteered/committed to doing so?), or they could
decide to move on and do something else completely different instead
with their time.

I guess personally for me, MWC is the last glimmer of hope - a miracle
announcement of a modern 64-bit dev phone to replace mako, but I don't
know how much I'd be willing to bet on that.



-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Unix One]

On 02/24/2017 12:10 PM, Rodney Dawes wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 18:28 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
>> It is, because the click pkg are EOL and the snap require 64-bit
>
> No. Anyone should be able to create snap based images for 32-bit
> devices if they wish. However, I think as only new devices coming to
> market at this point are really going to be 64-bit, the goal is to only
> support 64-bit for official device images. For example, see the
> discussions previously about no longer building final release ISOs of
> Ubuntu for i386, or how there haven't been ones for PowerPC for a while
> now. However, both of those architectures are still built in the
> archive, and some derivatives still build releases for those
> architectures.

In my mind, this logic makes complete sense, as it does for Ubuntu i386 
example, if most devices on the market are 64-bit and it is of very 
little benefit to support older hardware via official channels. In fact, 
Ubuntu has indeed officially supported i386 concurrently with 64-bit 
during many years of transition.

As for Ubuntu Touch phones, since 100% of existing phone devices are 
32-bit, there are no 64-bit phones even being planned (at least 
publicly), wiping 32-bit future official support outright alienates the 
core power users and developers - i.e. pretty much everyone - in a 
frustrating way.

Sure, community could decide to backport Ubuntu Touch updates to legacy 
phones (has anyone volunteered/committed to doing so?), or they could 
decide to move on and do something else completely different instead 
with their time.

I guess personally for me, MWC is the last glimmer of hope - a miracle 
announcement of a modern 64-bit dev phone to replace mako, but I don't 
know how much I'd be willing to bet on that.

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[NeoTheThird]

On 24.02.2017 22:49, Mitchell Reese wrote:



On 25/02/17 08:14, Rodney Dawes wrote:

On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 21:37 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:

Rodney, three questions about that:

The Fairphone 2 is, AFAIK, a 32-bit device. What will be shown at
MWC,
announced by Canonical, will this be snap or click based?

The FP2 port is like any other current device on UBports. It is the
same phone image base as all other current devices. There are currently
no snap based images for phones or tablets.


The word 'image' for the thing the Community could build, hides some
fundamental detail: At the moment we need some Android kernel parts
to
control the hardware of the mobile device. Do you really think that
there will be other images apart of the 'officially supported images'
in
the near future?

An "image" in the snap world will just be a thing which contains a set
of default installed snaps, which you flash on a device. This means at
least the ubuntu-core snap, a kernel snap (which may be kernel +
android container bits, i'm not sure if the specific there have been
ironed out), and the unity8, mir, pulseaudio, cups, etc… snaps. It will
not be the same as how system images work today.

I see no reason why there couldn't be unofficial ports, and soon after
we have the details worked out on how to build those images and flash
them to devices.


Why Canonical is not supporting the existing BQ E4.5 and E5 devices
with
a new officially supported image and why you leave us alone (apart of
security updates)
and without any visible upgrade path, not even to a new hardware?

This is not something I am able to answer.


For the record, I also find it a bit irritating at the lack of 
communication from Canonical - keeping the community in the loop seems 
a no brainer to me. That said, I think its too early to tell what will 
be supported, and what won't - how easy it will be, etc. I think this 
is mainly because no one really knows yet. Once the project is 
snapified we'll have more info, even if that involves working out 
ourselves what we can flash the system on.


I'm going to throw my ring into the hat and defend Canonical's lack of 
communication. Given how people have been jumping on /every/ bit of 
'official' media to point to the demise of this project, I can 
understand how Canonical might want to stay silent until they know 
what is going on. Personally, I think this sucks, but can understand 
the idea behind it. Lets wait and see what happens.


Mitchell
IMHO the reason why so many people are all over the tiniest bit of 
official information is that there is so little official information. I 
understand your point, but for a community-driven project, it would be 
nice to actually talk to the community...


--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Mitchell Reese]

On 25/02/17 08:14, Rodney Dawes wrote:

On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 21:37 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:

Rodney, three questions about that:

The Fairphone 2 is, AFAIK, a 32-bit device. What will be shown at
MWC,
announced by Canonical, will this be snap or click based?

The FP2 port is like any other current device on UBports. It is the
same phone image base as all other current devices. There are currently
no snap based images for phones or tablets.


The word 'image' for the thing the Community could build, hides some
fundamental detail: At the moment we need some Android kernel parts
to
control the hardware of the mobile device. Do you really think that
there will be other images apart of the 'officially supported images'
in
the near future?

An "image" in the snap world will just be a thing which contains a set
of default installed snaps, which you flash on a device. This means at
least the ubuntu-core snap, a kernel snap (which may be kernel +
android container bits, i'm not sure if the specific there have been
ironed out), and the unity8, mir, pulseaudio, cups, etc… snaps. It will
not be the same as how system images work today.

I see no reason why there couldn't be unofficial ports, and soon after
we have the details worked out on how to build those images and flash
them to devices.


Why Canonical is not supporting the existing BQ E4.5 and E5 devices
with
a new officially supported image and why you leave us alone (apart of
security updates)
and without any visible upgrade path, not even to a new hardware?

This is not something I am able to answer.


For the record, I also find it a bit irritating at the lack of 
communication from Canonical - keeping the community in the loop seems a 
no brainer to me. That said, I think its too early to tell what will be 
supported, and what won't - how easy it will be, etc. I think this is 
mainly because no one really knows yet. Once the project is snapified 
we'll have more info, even if that involves working out ourselves what 
we can flash the system on.


I'm going to throw my ring into the hat and defend Canonical's lack of 
communication. Given how people have been jumping on /every/ bit of 
'official' media to point to the demise of this project, I can 
understand how Canonical might want to stay silent until they know what 
is going on. Personally, I think this sucks, but can understand the idea 
behind it. Lets wait and see what happens.


Mitchell






--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Rodney Dawes]

On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 21:37 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> Rodney, three questions about that:
> 
> The Fairphone 2 is, AFAIK, a 32-bit device. What will be shown at
> MWC,
> announced by Canonical, will this be snap or click based?

The FP2 port is like any other current device on UBports. It is the
same phone image base as all other current devices. There are currently
no snap based images for phones or tablets.

> The word 'image' for the thing the Community could build, hides some
> fundamental detail: At the moment we need some Android kernel parts
> to
> control the hardware of the mobile device. Do you really think that
> there will be other images apart of the 'officially supported images'
> in
> the near future?

An "image" in the snap world will just be a thing which contains a set
of default installed snaps, which you flash on a device. This means at
least the ubuntu-core snap, a kernel snap (which may be kernel +
android container bits, i'm not sure if the specific there have been
ironed out), and the unity8, mir, pulseaudio, cups, etc… snaps. It will
not be the same as how system images work today.

I see no reason why there couldn't be unofficial ports, and soon after
we have the details worked out on how to build those images and flash
them to devices.

> Why Canonical is not supporting the existing BQ E4.5 and E5 devices
> with
> a new officially supported image and why you leave us alone (apart of
> security updates)
> and without any visible upgrade path, not even to a new hardware?

This is not something I am able to answer.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Friday, February 24, 2017 a las 03:12:12PM -0500, Rodney Dawes escribió:

> > I was not talking about snap in general, but snap for a next phone.
> > There was a clear statement that this will require a 64-bit kernel.
> > Check the archives of this list.
> 
> As in my other reply, I'm pretty sure the statement was that only 64-
> bit will be supported by officially supported images. Community (ie
> ubports or anyone else) could still build images for 32-bit if they
> wish.

Rodney, three questions about that:

The Fairphone 2 is, AFAIK, a 32-bit device. What will be shown at MWC,
announced by Canonical, will this be snap or click based?

The word 'image' for the thing the Community could build, hides some
fundamental detail: At the moment we need some Android kernel parts to
control the hardware of the mobile device. Do you really think that
there will be other images apart of the 'officially supported images' in
the near future?

Why Canonical is not supporting the existing BQ E4.5 and E5 devices with
a new officially supported image and why you leave us alone (apart of security 
updates)
and without any visible upgrade path, not even to a new hardware?

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Rodney Dawes]

On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 18:28 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> It is, because the click pkg are EOL and the snap require 64-bit

No. Anyone should be able to create snap based images for 32-bit
devices if they wish. However, I think as only new devices coming to
market at this point are really going to be 64-bit, the goal is to only
support 64-bit for official device images. For example, see the
discussions previously about no longer building final release ISOs of
Ubuntu for i386, or how there haven't been ones for PowerPC for a while
now. However, both of those architectures are still built in the
archive, and some derivatives still build releases for those
architectures.

Granted, certain applications in the snap store may end up not being
available on i386 or armhf, if the developers decide not to build for
those architectures, but that is a separate issue from being able to
port a device.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Rodney Dawes]

On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 19:25 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> El día Friday, February 24, 2017 a las 05:42:29PM +, John Lenton
> escribió:
> 
> > 
> > On 24 February 2017 at 17:28, Matthias Apitz 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > snap require 64-bit
> > umm... no? Snaps are supported on at least amd64, arm64, armhf,
> > i386,
> > ppc64el, and s390x. Some of those are not 64 bits.
> I was not talking about snap in general, but snap for a next phone.
> There was a clear statement that this will require a 64-bit kernel.
> Check the archives of this list.

As in my other reply, I'm pretty sure the statement was that only 64-
bit will be supported by officially supported images. Community (ie
ubports or anyone else) could still build images for 32-bit if they
wish.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Friday, February 24, 2017 a las 05:42:29PM +, John Lenton escribió:

> On 24 February 2017 at 17:28, Matthias Apitz  wrote:
> > snap require 64-bit
> 
> umm... no? Snaps are supported on at least amd64, arm64, armhf, i386,
> ppc64el, and s390x. Some of those are not 64 bits.

I was not talking about snap in general, but snap for a next phone.
There was a clear statement that this will require a 64-bit kernel.
Check the archives of this list.

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045
Aus "Nie wieder Krieg!" wurde "Nie wieder Krieg ohne Deutschlands Truppen"
The "No wars anymore!" changed now to "No wars anymore without German battle 
groups!"
El "¡Nunca jamás guerra!" ha cambiado a "¡Nunca jamás guerra sin tropas 
alemanas!" 

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Felipe Salvador]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 12:18:40PM -0500, Rodney Dawes wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 17:19 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> > Re/ phones, they will show the Ubuntu Phone "Fairphone 2" there,
> > which
> > is only a 32-bit device as we know :-(
> 
> Why is this a relevant concern (32-bit)? The FP2 is not an "officially
> supported" device, as it's a port from UBports and thus community
> managed. But I keep seeing this mention of 32-bit like it's some
> serious problem, when it is not.

It will become a problem, wen a lot of (sold) devices (including my
MX4) will be kicked off Canonical graces.
I don't know if this is the plane, I'm just worried. 



-- 
Felipe Salvador

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[John Lenton]

On 24 February 2017 at 17:28, Matthias Apitz  wrote:
> snap require 64-bit

umm... no? Snaps are supported on at least amd64, arm64, armhf, i386,
ppc64el, and s390x. Some of those are not 64 bits.

-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Marius Gripsgård]

The fairphone cannot even run 64bit, it's not supported by the processor
(armv7).

On Feb 24, 2017 18:18, "Rodney Dawes"  wrote:

On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 17:19 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> Re/ phones, they will show the Ubuntu Phone "Fairphone 2" there,
> which
> is only a 32-bit device as we know :-(

Why is this a relevant concern (32-bit)? The FP2 is not an "officially
supported" device, as it's a port from UBports and thus community
managed. But I keep seeing this mention of 32-bit like it's some
serious problem, when it is not.

--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Matthias Apitz]

> Am 24.02.2017 um 18:18 schrieb Rodney Dawes :
> 
>> On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 17:19 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
>> Re/ phones, they will show the Ubuntu Phone "Fairphone 2" there,
>> which
>> is only a 32-bit device as we know :-(
> 
> Why is this a relevant concern (32-bit)? The FP2 is not an "officially
> supported" device, as it's a port from UBports and thus community
> managed. But I keep seeing this mention of 32-bit like it's some
> serious problem, when it is not.

It is, because the click pkg are EOL and the snap require 64-bit

Matthias


-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu at MWC in Barcelona

[Rodney Dawes]

On Fri, 2017-02-24 at 17:19 +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> Re/ phones, they will show the Ubuntu Phone "Fairphone 2" there,
> which
> is only a 32-bit device as we know :-(

Why is this a relevant concern (32-bit)? The FP2 is not an "officially
supported" device, as it's a port from UBports and thus community
managed. But I keep seeing this mention of 32-bit like it's some
serious problem, when it is not.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp