Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:59:29 +, jaquil...@eagleeyet.net wrote: >On 2018-10-11 06:43, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:31:01 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: >>> If the below is accurate what issues could be encountered in terms >>> of configuration? >> >> For example an incomplete "NotShowIn" list for desktop files. >> >> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep NotShowIn >> /etc/xdg/autostart/xfce4-power-manager.desktop >> NotShowIn=GNOME;KDE;Unity;MATE; >> >> For example the preferences of a file manager are set to manage the >> desktop and launching this file manager by a menu based on desktop >> files, it gets launched without a no-desktop option. >> >> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep Exec >> /usr/share/applications/caja.desktop >> Exec=caja >> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ caja --help | grep no-desktop >> --no-desktopDo not manage the desktop (ignore >> the preference set in the preferences dialog). >> >> Those are trivial issues for power users, but a newbie could be >> confused. >What would need to be done to cater for the newbies? That's hard to say, since there are other config issues, such as averaged settings for apps that a user might want to use with different desktop environments, but by using different setting profiles. 1. Not all apps provide profiles. 2. Those apps that provide profiles, default to one profile. I've written scripts to generate profiles even for window manager sessions. A user could start different openbox sessions or a jwm session by using different GTK, Qt and whatsoever settings, for example: $ ls -hAl .gtkrc-2.0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 42 Oct 11 10:06 .gtkrc-2.0 -> .gtkrc-2.0_openbox-profile-lcd-realignment .gtkrc-2.0 isn't a file, it's a softlink generated when logging in. For example: [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep Exec /usr/share/xsessions/openbox-lcd-realignment.desktop | head -1 Exec=/usr/local/bin/openbox-profile-lcd-realignment [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep Exec /usr/share/xsessions/openbox-pre-summery.desktop | head -1 Exec=/usr/local/bin/openbox-profile-pre-summery [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -hAl /usr/local/bin/openbox-profile-lcd-realignment /usr/local/bin/openbox-profile-pre-summery lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 Aug 13 2017 /usr/local/bin/openbox-profile-lcd-realignment -> openbox-profile lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 May 4 2015 /usr/local/bin/openbox-profile-pre-summery -> openbox-profile lightdm among other does provide the above sessions using the /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop files. In /usr/local/bin/ are links against a script named openbox-profile. Depending on the basename of the links, the script does things such as e.g. generating a links to a .gtkrc-2.0 profile. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
What would need to be done to cater for the newbies?
On 2018-10-11 06:43, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:31:01 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
If the below is accurate what issues could be encountered in terms of
configuration?
For example an incomplete "NotShowIn" list for desktop files.
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep NotShowIn
/etc/xdg/autostart/xfce4-power-manager.desktop
NotShowIn=GNOME;KDE;Unity;MATE;
For example the preferences of a file manager are set to manage the
desktop and launching this file manager by a menu based on desktop
files, it gets launched without a no-desktop option.
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep Exec
/usr/share/applications/caja.desktop
Exec=caja
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ caja --help | grep no-desktop
--no-desktopDo not manage the desktop (ignore
the preference set in the preferences dialog).
Those are trivial issues for power users, but a newbie could be
confused.
--
pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-pussytoes,-cornflower}}|cut -d\
-f2
4.18.12.arch1-1
4.18.12_rt7-1
4.18.7_rt5-1
4.18.5_rt3-1
4.16.18_rt12-1
--
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:31:01 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
>If the below is accurate what issues could be encountered in terms of
>configuration?
For example an incomplete "NotShowIn" list for desktop files.
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep NotShowIn
/etc/xdg/autostart/xfce4-power-manager.desktop
NotShowIn=GNOME;KDE;Unity;MATE;
For example the preferences of a file manager are set to manage the
desktop and launching this file manager by a menu based on desktop
files, it gets launched without a no-desktop option.
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep Exec /usr/share/applications/caja.desktop
Exec=caja
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ caja --help | grep no-desktop
--no-desktopDo not manage the desktop (ignore the
preference set in the preferences dialog).
Those are trivial issues for power users, but a newbie could be
confused.
--
pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-pussytoes,-cornflower}}|cut -d\ -f2
4.18.12.arch1-1
4.18.12_rt7-1
4.18.7_rt5-1
4.18.5_rt3-1
4.16.18_rt12-1
--
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
In all fairness i think there is nothing to lose with such an offering. As multiple DE's offer end users more options to work with environments they enjoy working in. On 2018-10-11 04:58, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: All I've ever noticed is the issue with multiple filemanagers starting at once, but I've only ever extensively used one at a time (normally MATE) so might not spot other issues On 10/11/2018 at 12:31 AM, "Jonathan Aquilina" wrote: Hi, If the below is accurate what issues could be encountered in terms of configuration? Sent from my iPhone On 10 Oct 2018, at 23:17, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: The "main DE's" now are at least GNOME, Cinnamon, MATE,KDE, XFCE,and LXDE and probably more. On 10/10/2018 at 2:11 AM, "Jonathan Aquilina" wrote: Hi Len, Aren’t there just 3 Main DE’s. Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t you talking about corner cases here? Or are you also taking into consideration window managers? Sent from my iPhone On 08 Oct 2018, at 00:05, Len Ovens wrote: On Sun, 7 Oct 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:27:25 -0400, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: Most DE's are designed not to conflict with any other DE Yesno :D, for some more or less exceptional cases, regarding so called major DEs, you and I know better :p. A "conflict" might not be the right term for some issues, users could experience. I would reduce it to switching between window mangers, never does cause an issue, but switching between desktop environments not necessarily does, but always could come with a pitfall. The main thing is user config files which may be the same filename from DE to DE or worse, one DE might expand a user config file in a way another might not understand. Also, if there is a studio specific login and a DE login for the same DE, whichever login you use first will set user configs in the way that login sets up. Most DEs have a DE specific sub directory of .config, but in the case where the DE is just a modified version of another DE... who knows. In general most people pick the DE they want and always use it. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
All I've ever noticed is the issue with multiple filemanagers starting at once, but I've only ever extensively used one at a time (normally MATE) so might not spot other issues On 10/11/2018 at 12:31 AM, "Jonathan Aquilina" wrote: > >Hi, > >If the below is accurate what issues could be encountered in terms >of configuration? > >Sent from my iPhone > >> On 10 Oct 2018, at 23:17, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: >> >> The "main DE's" now are at least GNOME, Cinnamon, MATE,KDE, >XFCE,and LXDE >> and probably more. >> >>> On 10/10/2018 at 2:11 AM, "Jonathan Aquilina" > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Len, >>> >>> Aren’t there just 3 Main DE’s. Correct me if I am wrong but >aren’t >>> you talking about corner cases here? Or are you also taking >into >>> consideration window managers? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> > On 08 Oct 2018, at 00:05, Len Ovens wrote: > >> On Sun, 7 Oct 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >> On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:27:25 -0400, lukefro...@hushmail.com >>> wrote: >> Most DE's are designed not to conflict with any other DE > > Yesno :D, for some more or less exceptional cases, regarding >so >>> called > major DEs, you and I know better :p. A "conflict" might not >be >>> the right > term for some issues, users could experience. > > I would reduce it to switching between window mangers, never >>> does cause > an issue, but switching between desktop environments not >>> necessarily > does, but always could come with a pitfall. The main thing is user config files which may be the same >>> filename from DE to DE or worse, one DE might expand a user >config >>> file in a way another might not understand. Also, if there is a >>> studio specific login and a DE login for the same DE, whichever >>> login you use first will set user configs in the way that login >>> sets up. Most DEs have a DE specific sub directory of .config, >but >>> in the case where the DE is just a modified version of another >>> DE... who knows. In general most people pick the DE they want and always use it. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >>> ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel >> >> >> -- >> ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >> ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > > >-- >ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
Hi, If the below is accurate what issues could be encountered in terms of configuration? Sent from my iPhone > On 10 Oct 2018, at 23:17, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: > > The "main DE's" now are at least GNOME, Cinnamon, MATE,KDE, XFCE,and LXDE > and probably more. > >> On 10/10/2018 at 2:11 AM, "Jonathan Aquilina" >> wrote: >> >> Hi Len, >> >> Aren’t there just 3 Main DE’s. Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t >> you talking about corner cases here? Or are you also taking into >> consideration window managers? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> On 08 Oct 2018, at 00:05, Len Ovens wrote: > On Sun, 7 Oct 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:27:25 -0400, lukefro...@hushmail.com >> wrote: > Most DE's are designed not to conflict with any other DE Yesno :D, for some more or less exceptional cases, regarding so >> called major DEs, you and I know better :p. A "conflict" might not be >> the right term for some issues, users could experience. I would reduce it to switching between window mangers, never >> does cause an issue, but switching between desktop environments not >> necessarily does, but always could come with a pitfall. >>> >>> The main thing is user config files which may be the same >> filename from DE to DE or worse, one DE might expand a user config >> file in a way another might not understand. Also, if there is a >> studio specific login and a DE login for the same DE, whichever >> login you use first will set user configs in the way that login >> sets up. Most DEs have a DE specific sub directory of .config, but >> in the case where the DE is just a modified version of another >> DE... who knows. >>> >>> In general most people pick the DE they want and always use it. >>> >>> -- >>> Len Ovens >>> www.ovenwerks.net >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >>> ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel >> >> >> -- >> ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >> ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > > > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
The "main DE's" now are at least GNOME, Cinnamon, MATE,KDE, XFCE,and LXDE and probably more. On 10/10/2018 at 2:11 AM, "Jonathan Aquilina" wrote: > >Hi Len, > >Aren’t there just 3 Main DE’s. Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t >you talking about corner cases here? Or are you also taking into >consideration window managers? > >Sent from my iPhone > >> On 08 Oct 2018, at 00:05, Len Ovens wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 7 Oct 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:27:25 -0400, lukefro...@hushmail.com >wrote: Most DE's are designed not to conflict with any other DE >>> >>> Yesno :D, for some more or less exceptional cases, regarding so >called >>> major DEs, you and I know better :p. A "conflict" might not be >the right >>> term for some issues, users could experience. >>> >>> I would reduce it to switching between window mangers, never >does cause >>> an issue, but switching between desktop environments not >necessarily >>> does, but always could come with a pitfall. >> >> The main thing is user config files which may be the same >filename from DE to DE or worse, one DE might expand a user config >file in a way another might not understand. Also, if there is a >studio specific login and a DE login for the same DE, whichever >login you use first will set user configs in the way that login >sets up. Most DEs have a DE specific sub directory of .config, but >in the case where the DE is just a modified version of another >DE... who knows. >> >> In general most people pick the DE they want and always use it. >> >> -- >> Len Ovens >> www.ovenwerks.net >> >> >> -- >> ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >> ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > > >-- >ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
Hi Len, Aren’t there just 3 Main DE’s. Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t you talking about corner cases here? Or are you also taking into consideration window managers? Sent from my iPhone > On 08 Oct 2018, at 00:05, Len Ovens wrote: > >> On Sun, 7 Oct 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:27:25 -0400, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: >>> Most DE's are designed not to conflict with any other DE >> >> Yesno :D, for some more or less exceptional cases, regarding so called >> major DEs, you and I know better :p. A "conflict" might not be the right >> term for some issues, users could experience. >> >> I would reduce it to switching between window mangers, never does cause >> an issue, but switching between desktop environments not necessarily >> does, but always could come with a pitfall. > > The main thing is user config files which may be the same filename from DE to > DE or worse, one DE might expand a user config file in a way another might > not understand. Also, if there is a studio specific login and a DE login for > the same DE, whichever login you use first will set user configs in the way > that login sets up. Most DEs have a DE specific sub directory of .config, but > in the case where the DE is just a modified version of another DE... who > knows. > > In general most people pick the DE they want and always use it. > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > > > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Sun, 7 Oct 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:27:25 -0400, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: Most DE's are designed not to conflict with any other DE Yesno :D, for some more or less exceptional cases, regarding so called major DEs, you and I know better :p. A "conflict" might not be the right term for some issues, users could experience. I would reduce it to switching between window mangers, never does cause an issue, but switching between desktop environments not necessarily does, but always could come with a pitfall. The main thing is user config files which may be the same filename from DE to DE or worse, one DE might expand a user config file in a way another might not understand. Also, if there is a studio specific login and a DE login for the same DE, whichever login you use first will set user configs in the way that login sets up. Most DEs have a DE specific sub directory of .config, but in the case where the DE is just a modified version of another DE... who knows. In general most people pick the DE they want and always use it. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
The external green drive issue is really a firmware bug, with that 4 second spindown interval that gradually kills the drive unless it is run under very limited circumstances. I would not support removing GVFS from MATE, Cinnamon, or GNOME simply to crutch this situation. The correct fix would be to add the abiiity to blacklist a known bad drive from being managed by GVFS. Without GVFS the Nautilus-based file managers can be run but won't be able to mount or unmount drives. I would sooner trash my one surviving Caviar Green drive than give that up. I had three of those clunkers, ran an HDPARM script against all three to stop the 4 second spindowns. A long time later, one died of a board failure and the other died of platter issues probably caused by having run those fixes too late. These drives should not be used in regular service at all, and if run every couple weeks to take a backup won't be damaged by the spindown issue as they simply won't get enough use. One way to stop the spindowns can be done as a user script that touches any file on the offending drive at two-second intervals as a "keep-alive" to force the drive to keep running. Again, these drives are defective hardware and should be warned about and workarounds offered, rather than removing features from file managers for all users to deal with them. On 10/7/2018 at 4:30 PM, "Ralf Mardorf" wrote: > >On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 22:22:08 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>let alone of e.g. panels that might be replaced after using a file >>manager of another desktop environment. > >this should read panels _and wallpapers_ ;) > >-- >ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 22:22:08 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >let alone of e.g. panels that might be replaced after using a file >manager of another desktop environment. this should read panels _and wallpapers_ ;) -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Sun, 2018-10-07 at 15:48 -0400, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: > The main issue I have seen is having to tweak startup prograns from a > session's > control panel to keep multiple copies of the desktop icons from being > displayed > by multiple file managers. I have MATE, GNOME, and Cinnamon installed and > can configure any one of them at a time to properly show the desktop, but not > seamlessly session switch without having to either start or kill a file > manager > from the alt-F2 dialog. So trivial for me I think little of it but yeah this > could > flummox a new user. In my first reply I ignored the underlying WM, lets ignore it now, too, but handling of a "desktop", resp. the way ~/Desktop is displayed, is a serious issue for inexperienced users, let alone of e.g. panels that might be replaced after using a file manager of another desktop environment. Usually such issues don't happen, but very seldom, still way too often, they could happen. There are more geekish pitfalls, such as using a GTK based environment, such as e.g. Xfce, that by default does ship with GVFS, but also allow usage without GVFS. Once you e.g. run k3b, you could run into issues caused by the KDE replacement of GVFS, even while you explicitly use Xfce without GVFS, to avoid killing of external green drives. Desktop environments could ship with a lot of crap that even could damage hardware, like e.g. GVFS does, but users don't notice it. If you fix one WM and DE to your needs, it doesn't mean that just because you don't notice an issue while installing an additional WM and DE or even software that belongs to another DE, couldn't launch software that could be dangerous. Continually spinning down and up external green drives are caused by GVFS. If you are using Xfce, you could remove GVFS without a trick, to remove it for GNOME, Mate and Cinnamon, you at least need to build a dummy packge, that fakes to fulfill the completely unneeded dependency to GVFS. Once you launched a KDE app, some KDE thingy likely makes your external green drive spin down and up again and again. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 21:42:36 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >I would reduce it to switching between window mangers, never does cause >an issue Oops, my apologies, even this isn't true :D. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:27:25 -0400, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: >Most DE's are designed not to conflict with any other DE Yesno :D, for some more or less exceptional cases, regarding so called major DEs, you and I know better :p. A "conflict" might not be the right term for some issues, users could experience. I would reduce it to switching between window mangers, never does cause an issue, but switching between desktop environments not necessarily does, but always could come with a pitfall. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
I have never heard of a metapackage for a DE that removes another DE, they just install the selected DE in addition. Most DE's are designed not to conflict with any other DE, which is why forks of GNOME such as Cinnamon and MATE rename every forked package. Metapackages in Debian install packages and theirt dependences, and would not remove anything unless a package in the metapackage depends list (or the metapackage itself) is listed as replacing the package to be removed. Even that would not remove the dependencies of the removed package, which instead might come up listed as "no longer required" and thus the user can remove them if desired. On 10/7/2018 at 2:17 AM, jaquil...@eagleeyet.net wrote: > >Hi, > >I do like this direction things are going to be fair with the >below >suggestion. > >Just some food for thought. Let us say i install normal ubuntu. if >i >install the meta package for kde version of studio obviously the >gnome >stuff will be removed and then the new KDE stuff will be installed >right? > > >On 2018-10-03 17:07, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: >> To answer the initial question, Plasma will not be installable >from an >> ISO, but will be available in the repositories. Unfortunately >spinning >> a new iso for Plasma has proven to be time prohibitive, so a >direction >> that is being considered is to add a meta package to a Kubuntu >install >> to convert it into Ubuntu Studio (and have metapackages >available to >> convert other flavors as well). Yes, that adds an extra step, but >> it’s the most logical solution considering our manpower and time >> allotment. >> >> Erich >> >> --------- >> >> FROM: 20104043740n behalf of >> SENT: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 9:17 AM >> TO: Ubuntu Studio Development >> SUBJECT: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs >> It would be interesting to have end users choose which DE they >want. >> as >> it stands everyone one has their own preferene I prefer KDE >others on >> this list like gnome. >> >> Regards, >> Jonathan >> >> On 2018-10-03 15:31, Charlie wrote: >>> will KDE plasma be available upon release of the final version >of >>> 18.10 or will it be offered later? or will it be an option >during >>> installation? >>> >>> Charlie Luna >> >> -- >> ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >> ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > >-- >ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
That’s what would be great to see. Have you used centos? In that installer you can choose what packages such as DEs to install. What Ubuntu has should do the same Sent from my iPhone > On 07 Oct 2018, at 18:01, Len Ovens wrote: > >> On Sun, 7 Oct 2018, jaquil...@eagleeyet.net wrote: >> >> I do like this direction things are going to be fair with the below >> suggestion. >> >> Just some food for thought. Let us say i install normal ubuntu. if i install >> the meta package for kde version of studio obviously the gnome stuff will be >> removed and then the new KDE stuff will be installed right? > > Actually no, one can run as many DEs as they would like to. KDA (Plasma) can > live along side gnome just fine. > > There are relatively few conflicts between Studio and vanilla. The kernel > while not strictly a conflict does need tweaking to make sure the right one > runs if there is more than one. Some of the Codex we install do require the > simpler codex package be removed, though that doesn't affect regular desktop > use but rather extends it. > > If we were to try allowing the user to DL and install a different DE at > install time, the user would also be able to choose not to install the DE the > ISO comes with. > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > > > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Sun, 7 Oct 2018, jaquil...@eagleeyet.net wrote: I do like this direction things are going to be fair with the below suggestion. Just some food for thought. Let us say i install normal ubuntu. if i install the meta package for kde version of studio obviously the gnome stuff will be removed and then the new KDE stuff will be installed right? Actually no, one can run as many DEs as they would like to. KDA (Plasma) can live along side gnome just fine. There are relatively few conflicts between Studio and vanilla. The kernel while not strictly a conflict does need tweaking to make sure the right one runs if there is more than one. Some of the Codex we install do require the simpler codex package be removed, though that doesn't affect regular desktop use but rather extends it. If we were to try allowing the user to DL and install a different DE at install time, the user would also be able to choose not to install the DE the ISO comes with. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
Hi, I do like this direction things are going to be fair with the below suggestion. Just some food for thought. Let us say i install normal ubuntu. if i install the meta package for kde version of studio obviously the gnome stuff will be removed and then the new KDE stuff will be installed right? On 2018-10-03 17:07, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: To answer the initial question, Plasma will not be installable from an ISO, but will be available in the repositories. Unfortunately spinning a new iso for Plasma has proven to be time prohibitive, so a direction that is being considered is to add a meta package to a Kubuntu install to convert it into Ubuntu Studio (and have metapackages available to convert other flavors as well). Yes, that adds an extra step, but it’s the most logical solution considering our manpower and time allotment. Erich - FROM: 20104043740n behalf of SENT: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 9:17 AM TO: Ubuntu Studio Development SUBJECT: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs It would be interesting to have end users choose which DE they want. as it stands everyone one has their own preferene I prefer KDE others on this list like gnome. Regards, Jonathan On 2018-10-03 15:31, Charlie wrote: will KDE plasma be available upon release of the final version of 18.10 or will it be offered later? or will it be an option during installation? Charlie Luna -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
Hi, There is another way this can go. why not offer multiple ISO's with various DE's as options so a seperate ISO for KDE for example and others On 2018-10-06 19:06, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:55:01 +, jaquil...@eagleeyet.net wrote: Arent there during installation certain things which get downloaded from the repos but the downloads are masked from the end user? Hi, a default install from an Ubuntu desktop flavour could be done without an Internet connection at all. Not everybody does provide a DHCP connection, for PPPoE it wouldn't be possible to download without notifying the user. A hidden download would be a serious privacy violation. Regards, Ralf -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Sat, 2018-10-06 at 21:06 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > A hidden download would be a serious privacy violation. Let alone that for some users downloads still could cost a pretty penny. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:55:01 +, jaquil...@eagleeyet.net wrote: >Arent there during installation certain things which get downloaded >from the repos but the downloads are masked from the end user? Hi, a default install from an Ubuntu desktop flavour could be done without an Internet connection at all. Not everybody does provide a DHCP connection, for PPPoE it wouldn't be possible to download without notifying the user. A hidden download would be a serious privacy violation. Regards, Ralf -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
Ross, Correct me if I am wrong. Arent there during installation certain things which get downloaded from the repos but the downloads are masked from the end user? On 2018-10-06 16:39, Ross Gammon wrote: On 10/05/2018 07:35 PM, Len Ovens wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018, Ross Gammon wrote: Is it not possible to install the kubuntu metapackage (or one of them) on a Ubuntu Studio install and then chose the DE when logging in? If that was possible, then we could add a new metapackage to our ubuntustudio seeds that could be optionally installed, and then switch the seeds to that metapackage once we are happy. Probably some of us are just hard of thinking :) That would increase the ISO size by the size of the plasma meta, though the resulting ISO would probably still fit on a DVD (if those are still a thing). DL time would go up yet a again. It would, at this point, be a next cycle thing of course. We would need at least an optional -plasma-desktop package, but more realistically we would need to split -default-settings into -default-setting and -xfce-desktop (replace "desktop" with "settings" if needed). I guess it is possible for the plasma part to be dl and install during ISO install rather than included on the ISO. So there might be a default DE on the ISO, but at install time a different DE could be selected. I do not know how to do that, but the installer already DL and installes non-free packages so there must be a way. I think we could add to our ubuntustudio-live ubiquity plugin to add the plasma meta as an option at install time. We already use that to select/deselect which metas & packages to install. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On 10/05/2018 07:35 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > On Fri, 5 Oct 2018, Ross Gammon wrote: > >> Is it not possible to install the kubuntu metapackage (or one of them) >> on a Ubuntu Studio install and then chose the DE when logging in? >> >> If that was possible, then we could add a new metapackage to our >> ubuntustudio seeds that could be optionally installed, and then switch >> the seeds to that metapackage once we are happy. > > Probably some of us are just hard of thinking :) That would increase the > ISO size by the size of the plasma meta, though the resulting ISO would > probably still fit on a DVD (if those are still a thing). DL time would > go up yet a again. It would, at this point, be a next cycle thing of > course. We would need at least an optional -plasma-desktop package, but > more realistically we would need to split -default-settings into > -default-setting and -xfce-desktop (replace "desktop" with "settings" if > needed). > > I guess it is possible for the plasma part to be dl and install during > ISO install rather than included on the ISO. So there might be a default > DE on the ISO, but at install time a different DE could be selected. I > do not know how to do that, but the installer already DL and installes > non-free packages so there must be a way. I think we could add to our ubuntustudio-live ubiquity plugin to add the plasma meta as an option at install time. We already use that to select/deselect which metas & packages to install. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
There are the meta packages already no? (Kubuntu-desktop) for example. Why not work with those to get the desktop environment sorted then along side that install the Studio meta package? On 2018-10-05 17:35, Len Ovens wrote: On Fri, 5 Oct 2018, Ross Gammon wrote: Is it not possible to install the kubuntu metapackage (or one of them) on a Ubuntu Studio install and then chose the DE when logging in? If that was possible, then we could add a new metapackage to our ubuntustudio seeds that could be optionally installed, and then switch the seeds to that metapackage once we are happy. Probably some of us are just hard of thinking :) That would increase the ISO size by the size of the plasma meta, though the resulting ISO would probably still fit on a DVD (if those are still a thing). DL time would go up yet a again. It would, at this point, be a next cycle thing of course. We would need at least an optional -plasma-desktop package, but more realistically we would need to split -default-settings into -default-setting and -xfce-desktop (replace "desktop" with "settings" if needed). I guess it is possible for the plasma part to be dl and install during ISO install rather than included on the ISO. So there might be a default DE on the ISO, but at install time a different DE could be selected. I do not know how to do that, but the installer already DL and installes non-free packages so there must be a way. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018, Ross Gammon wrote: Is it not possible to install the kubuntu metapackage (or one of them) on a Ubuntu Studio install and then chose the DE when logging in? If that was possible, then we could add a new metapackage to our ubuntustudio seeds that could be optionally installed, and then switch the seeds to that metapackage once we are happy. Probably some of us are just hard of thinking :) That would increase the ISO size by the size of the plasma meta, though the resulting ISO would probably still fit on a DVD (if those are still a thing). DL time would go up yet a again. It would, at this point, be a next cycle thing of course. We would need at least an optional -plasma-desktop package, but more realistically we would need to split -default-settings into -default-setting and -xfce-desktop (replace "desktop" with "settings" if needed). I guess it is possible for the plasma part to be dl and install during ISO install rather than included on the ISO. So there might be a default DE on the ISO, but at install time a different DE could be selected. I do not know how to do that, but the installer already DL and installes non-free packages so there must be a way. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
Is it not possible to install the kubuntu metapackage (or one of them) on a Ubuntu Studio install and then chose the DE when logging in? If that was possible, then we could add a new metapackage to our ubuntustudio seeds that could be optionally installed, and then switch the seeds to that metapackage once we are happy. I have never understood the need for the extra ISO. Is it so we can offer an install for both DE's, or is there some setting that can only be made at install time? On 10/03/2018 07:07 PM, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > To answer the initial question, Plasma will not be installable from an > ISO, but will be available in the repositories. Unfortunately spinning a > new iso for Plasma has proven to be time prohibitive, so a direction > that is being considered is to add a meta package to a Kubuntu install > to convert it into Ubuntu Studio (and have metapackages available to > convert other flavors as well). Yes, that adds an extra step, but it’s > the most logical solution considering our manpower and time allotment. > > Erich > > > > *From:* 20104043740n behalf of > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 3, 2018 9:17 AM > *To:* Ubuntu Studio Development > *Subject:* Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs > > It would be interesting to have end users choose which DE they want. as > it stands everyone one has their own preferene I prefer KDE others on > this list like gnome. > > Regards, > Jonathan > > On 2018-10-03 15:31, Charlie wrote: >> will KDE plasma be available upon release of the final version of >> 18.10 or will it be offered later? or will it be an option during >> installation? >> >> Charlie Luna > > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > > -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018, Charlie wrote: Erich: understood. would the metapackages include the low latency headers as well? in synaptic search for ubuntustudio-* packages install the ones you want (audio, graphics whatever) but probably not the desktop. Also install linux-lowlatency if you are doing audio work. And install ubuntustudio-controls. Do run -controls at least once to set memory limits and real time priorities and logout and in. I would warn against the the gnome software installer, but the plasma moan (I think it is) is fine. I don't know what -default-settings will do for plasma, but it makes sure that if you have both generic and lowlatency kernels that lowlatency is default. It adds some other audio specific setting (like swappiness) as well. We have been thinking of making Studio an add on rather than it's own iso... Maybe a choice to add Studio or make Studio So install any ubuntu flavour then make it into Studio with that DE: - adds Studio's boot screen - adds Studio's startup graphic - maybe remove generic kernel - make DM Studio specific - make default backdrop Studio specific Or, add Studio - boot screen, startup graphics, backdrops and DE left as is - lowlatency kernel added as default (or user choice via setup?) - audio tweaks added - Studio metas added (as chosen) This would really require an updated -install package I think as well as some extensions to -controls... though swappiness 60 is not really good for any desktop use anyway. Maybe some of the other tweaks we make can be just left in. I don't know how easy it would be to make an install iso where the user DL an iso of the flavour of their choice and the studio install iso... installs the flavour and then installs the studio iso on top choosing option A or B as above (or some variant). This would replace our live ISO and xfce would no longer be "the Studio DE". It would be based on the net iso instead of desktop and would ensure proper install order, proper install user groups, proper jackd install, etc. In the case of installing over a fresh install, the Make this into Studio choice would be default. If the user has logged in at least once since install (~/.config exists) then the Add studio to this flavour would be default. Just an idea... it would be some work to get there... but it would be some work to go anywhere from here. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
Erich and Jonathan: something else I wanted to add to my reply. I mentioned the latte dock and why I like it so well, it's the only panel style I use, albeit in Kubuntu, is that it has some features that gnome does with the active bar and dot above the icons for the active programs at the time. I hope that's easily understood. Instead of having open window bubbles on the panel, it just uses a bar and dot above the icons. Very nice and I love that. If that can be installed on Ubuntu Studio, I'd be ecstatic. Or if that option can be incorporated into XFCE altogether, that'd be great. Charlie Luna > On Oct 3, 2018, at 10:07, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > > To answer the initial question, Plasma will not be installable from an ISO, > but will be available in the repositories. Unfortunately spinning a new iso > for Plasma has proven to be time prohibitive, so a direction that is being > considered is to add a meta package to a Kubuntu install to convert it into > Ubuntu Studio (and have metapackages available to convert other flavors as > well). Yes, that adds an extra step, but it’s the most logical solution > considering our manpower and time allotment. > > Erich > > > From: 20104043740n behalf of > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 9:17 AM > To: Ubuntu Studio Development > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs > > It would be interesting to have end users choose which DE they want. as > it stands everyone one has their own preferene I prefer KDE others on > this list like gnome. > > Regards, > Jonathan > > On 2018-10-03 15:31, Charlie wrote: > > will KDE plasma be available upon release of the final version of > > 18.10 or will it be offered later? or will it be an option during > > installation? > > > > Charlie Luna > > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
Erich: understood. would the metapackages include the low latency headers as well? Jonathan: Understood as well. Like you, I do prefer Plasma but I don't mind working with the XFCE interface. I think what would make things really awesome is to somehow install the latte dock that's available for Plasma. Is that possible with XFCE? Charlie Luna > On Oct 3, 2018, at 10:07, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > > To answer the initial question, Plasma will not be installable from an ISO, > but will be available in the repositories. Unfortunately spinning a new iso > for Plasma has proven to be time prohibitive, so a direction that is being > considered is to add a meta package to a Kubuntu install to convert it into > Ubuntu Studio (and have metapackages available to convert other flavors as > well). Yes, that adds an extra step, but it’s the most logical solution > considering our manpower and time allotment. > > Erich > > > From: 20104043740n behalf of > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 9:17 AM > To: Ubuntu Studio Development > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs > > It would be interesting to have end users choose which DE they want. as > it stands everyone one has their own preferene I prefer KDE others on > this list like gnome. > > Regards, > Jonathan > > On 2018-10-03 15:31, Charlie wrote: > > will KDE plasma be available upon release of the final version of > > 18.10 or will it be offered later? or will it be an option during > > installation? > > > > Charlie Luna > > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
To answer the initial question, Plasma will not be installable from an ISO, but will be available in the repositories. Unfortunately spinning a new iso for Plasma has proven to be time prohibitive, so a direction that is being considered is to add a meta package to a Kubuntu install to convert it into Ubuntu Studio (and have metapackages available to convert other flavors as well). Yes, that adds an extra step, but it’s the most logical solution considering our manpower and time allotment. Erich From: 20104043740n behalf of Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 9:17 AM To: Ubuntu Studio Development Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs It would be interesting to have end users choose which DE they want. as it stands everyone one has their own preferene I prefer KDE others on this list like gnome. Regards, Jonathan On 2018-10-03 15:31, Charlie wrote: > will KDE plasma be available upon release of the final version of > 18.10 or will it be offered later? or will it be an option during > installation? > > Charlie Luna -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
It would be interesting to have end users choose which DE they want. as it stands everyone one has their own preferene I prefer KDE others on this list like gnome. Regards, Jonathan On 2018-10-03 15:31, Charlie wrote: will KDE plasma be available upon release of the final version of 18.10 or will it be offered later? or will it be an option during installation? Charlie Luna -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
[ubuntu-studio-devel] availability of alternate DEs
will KDE plasma be available upon release of the final version of 18.10 or will it be offered later? or will it be an option during installation? Charlie Luna -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
