Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On Feb 18, 2008 9:04 AM, Alan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 00:02 +, James Grabham wrote: WOW I REALLY WANT ONE!!! Have you read the specification of that thing? 300MHz CPU. Yeah, thats what Arch is for! The reason I never got an eee was the ridiculous price - £220!!?? It's clearly not that ridiculous or they wouldn't have flown off the shelves in the vast numbers that they have. £220 for a laptop which doesnt have a real keyboard, has a tiny screen, and is generally just unusable (I have used one, Its awfull since I havs stubby fingers, and since Im short sighted) I could get a much better used thinkpad X30 for the price. £100 is an acceptable price though, not as a main laptop, but as essentially a large PDA, which is what I want this for. I will start saving ASAP If I were you I'd wait for the 8GB eee to come out and pick up a 2nd hand 4GB ee which I'm sure some people would sell to upgrade :) hmm, I dunno (Being 15, money is always scarce) Yeah, I remember those days :( eek, 20 years ago! lol -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Mr JE Grabham -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
The reason I never got an eee was the ridiculous price - £220!!?? It's clearly not that ridiculous or they wouldn't have flown off the shelves in the vast numbers that they have. £220 for a laptop which doesnt have a real keyboard, has a tiny screen, and is generally just unusable (I have used one, Its awfull since I havs stubby fingers, and since Im short sighted) I could get a much better used thinkpad X30 for the price. £100 is an acceptable price though, not as a main laptop, but as essentially a large PDA, which is what I want this for. Woah! Hold on there... That's your opinion, In my humble opinion (as I've actually owned an Eee PC since they came out), it's a stunning bit of kit. It's got superb build quality for £200, it does have a 'real' keyboard, granted it's something like 80% of size of a full sized keyboard, but it's a tiny machine, it's supposed to be a tiny machine, so it's GOT to have a smaller keyboard. And yes, I do have sausage fingers, but after a few hours use, it feels like a normal sized keyboard to me now. Yes, you could get an old laptop for £200, but you couldn't stick an old laptop in a large coat pocket, could you? Yes, £100 would be a much better price, but be realistic, there is £150+ worth of hardware in there, so they couldn't sell it for £100 as a main laptop - of course not, it's not designed to be a main laptop/PC, it's a tiny low powered, easily portable laptop - that's the point. The thing is tiny, the charger is tiny (like a mobile phone charger) - it fits in backpack hardly taking up any room. As for a large PDA... how many PDAs offer that kind of functionality??? You seem to have completely missed the point, it's not designed to be a cheap laptop, it's designed to a small laptop. The price is a bonus, given that UMPCs like to VAIOs cost £1200... I will start saving ASAP If I were you I'd wait for the 8GB eee to come out and pick up a 2nd hand 4GB ee which I'm sure some people would sell to upgrade :) The thing is that the 8GB has been promised and rumoured for 2+ months now, and increase of flash memory, its only going to add to the price of the Eee2. Given that Play.com are selling high speed 4GB SDHC cards for £10 inc postage, it seems daft to wait... And who's going to sell if they can up the memory to 8GB for £10, and keep another 4GB taped to the underside of the case... :) Best Eee PC comedy moment so far? Sat in Wetherspoons with a friend of mine, the day after I go it, using Wetherspoons free wifi connection and the built in webcam to have a Skype video chat with a friend of ours in the next town... Geeks huh? #2 is reading my email in the car going down the M1 (no I wasn't driving) with a bluetooth connection to my phone and the phones 3G data connection... LOL not tried a Skype video chat in a moving car yet... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
LeeGroups wrote: The reason I never got an eee was the ridiculous price - £220!!?? It's clearly not that ridiculous or they wouldn't have flown off the shelves in the vast numbers that they have. £220 for a laptop which doesnt have a real keyboard, has a tiny screen, and is generally just unusable (I have used one, Its awfull since I havs stubby fingers, and since Im short sighted) I could get a much better used thinkpad X30 for the price. £100 is an acceptable price though, not as a main laptop, but as essentially a large PDA, which is what I want this for. Woah! Hold on there... That's your opinion, In my humble opinion (as I've actually owned an Eee PC since they came out), it's a stunning bit of kit. It's got superb build quality for £200, it does have a 'real' keyboard, granted it's something like 80% of size of a full sized keyboard, but it's a tiny machine, it's supposed to be a tiny machine, so it's GOT to have a smaller keyboard. And yes, I do have sausage fingers, but after a few hours use, it feels like a normal sized keyboard to me now. Yes, you could get an old laptop for £200, but you couldn't stick an old laptop in a large coat pocket, could you? Yes, £100 would be a much better price, but be realistic, there is £150+ worth of hardware in there, so they couldn't sell it for £100 as a main laptop - of course not, it's not designed to be a main laptop/PC, it's a tiny low powered, easily portable laptop - that's the point. The thing is tiny, the charger is tiny (like a mobile phone charger) - it fits in backpack hardly taking up any room. As for a large PDA... how many PDAs offer that kind of functionality??? You seem to have completely missed the point, it's not designed to be a cheap laptop, it's designed to a small laptop. The price is a bonus, given that UMPCs like to VAIOs cost £1200... I will start saving ASAP If I were you I'd wait for the 8GB eee to come out and pick up a 2nd hand 4GB ee which I'm sure some people would sell to upgrade :) The thing is that the 8GB has been promised and rumoured for 2+ months now, and increase of flash memory, its only going to add to the price of the Eee2. Given that Play.com are selling high speed 4GB SDHC cards for £10 inc postage, it seems daft to wait... And who's going to sell if they can up the memory to 8GB for £10, and keep another 4GB taped to the underside of the case... :) Best Eee PC comedy moment so far? Sat in Wetherspoons with a friend of mine, the day after I go it, using Wetherspoons free wifi connection and the built in webcam to have a Skype video chat with a friend of ours in the next town... Geeks huh? #2 is reading my email in the car going down the M1 (no I wasn't driving) with a bluetooth connection to my phone and the phones 3G data connection... LOL not tried a Skype video chat in a moving car yet... The barista in caffe nero was very interested in mine, I use it to type up my college work whilst waiting for the bus. I practically use it as my main machine, I have all my emails, and use it for typing long essays etc when I am at college. There is nothing else comparative available in the UK at the moment, about the closest thing in size is the sony picturebook, which is horrifically expensive. The keyboard is OK, you get used to the little keys after a while. I wish it had a longer battery life, hopefully asus will catch up with the supply of batteries so there can be some going into retail channels. I could not fit another laptop(even a 12 inch one) in with my folders and various other stuff(Large amounts of Mars planets usually) The size is ideal to just chuck in a bag with the slip cover on. I think the £220 price is amazingly cheap, for the build quality espescially. I also have a Pentium 3 Toshiba Tecra, that when new was the top of the line laptop, (Going back some years admittedly) and that feels far flimsier than the EEE. Nothing squeaks, shakes or rattles at all. The price of a High end PDA is about the same as the EEE, I know which one would be more useful. I am using the sd card as a swap area until I pop some more ram into it. This seems to work well, although it does limit storage potential. Matt -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
John Levin wrote: Anyone have any idea what distro it will be running? John According to The Inquirer (link: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/02/20/elonex-100-laptop-specs-leaked) it's going to be running Debian. At first I thought it might be Arm based since Debian has an Arm port (and because ARM chips are low power, cheap etc) but then I found details of the Vortex86 system on a chip, I haven't got the link to the site I found earlier (I submitted it to the comments on The Inquirer but it's not come up at the moment), but I found this... http://www.vortex86sx.com/products.html It fits the bill, the other site was talking about an embedded PC board with 128MB DDR2 memory on there, so I assume they might have been able to either use a load of these boards (iirc the size was about 3 inches square) or some custom made. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 00:02 +, James Grabham wrote: WOW I REALLY WANT ONE!!! Have you read the specification of that thing? 300MHz CPU. The reason I never got an eee was the ridiculous price - £220!!?? It's clearly not that ridiculous or they wouldn't have flown off the shelves in the vast numbers that they have. I will start saving ASAP If I were you I'd wait for the 8GB eee to come out and pick up a 2nd hand 4GB ee which I'm sure some people would sell to upgrade :) (Being 15, money is always scarce) Yeah, I remember those days :( eek, 20 years ago! Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On 18 Feb 2008, at 12:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...of course, what we're talking here is OS-X, an OS that is completely different... and, imho, very hard to use compared to the other two. Having used all three systems, I'm amazed at this remark. An OS is an OS. How different can they be. I have a MacBook. It took me an hour to get into using the coloured buttons instead of the usual cross etc. What is so hard to remember in replacing the CTL with the Apple logo key? Puzzled, Clare -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
I'm not sure that argument about games is going to be relevant for much longer. Developers seem to be prepared to push out buggy rubbish (Bioshock, Shadow of Chernobyl, LOTR to name a few) which they never fix (I'm still waiting on patches for all of the above months and months after release) and when the games do work they require the latest and greatest hardware to get framerates into double figures (even with a quad core cpu, Geforce 8800GTX etc, Crysis still runs like a dog...) I'm not sure they care about the PC platform or PC gamers any more... Pete Check out my blog @ http://peteste.blogspot.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 12:31:37AM +, Daniel Lamb wrote: No but seriously how can anyone have anything again linux? I really struggle with that. The number one killer-app that I find stops people moving to Linux is games. Almost everything else can be replaced. MS Office to Open Office or Abiword/Gnumeric or KOffice Photoshop to GIMP Internet Explorer to Firefox or Konqueror Outlook to Evolution or Thunderbird But if he can't play the latest 'Total War' game, my firend Jack isn't going to switch. From the Mac side, my fiend Harvey isn't going to move from a Mac to Linux, as the hardware he uses in his work (sound engineer/music producer) needs trade secrets laiden drivers available only for Win/Mac. There is a case to be made for using any Desktop OS. I use Linux as it's free/free, has all the tools I need and is rock solid reliable. It's also comfortable and familiar to me, that counts for a lot. When I'm on a Mac I have to install the GNU Core Utils and spend my time in a terminal window. Mac OS X is an excellent OS, it's UNIX just like us. The downside is it's not all free/free and requires crazy expensive, but very nice, hardware to run. Windows is for gamers, because games are for Windows. I don't play computer games much so I don't have a Windows machine. All my gaming is covered by Gnome Mahjongg and ScummVM. -Gav -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://revford.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk I think we need to: Bypass the pulsar field signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 12:54 +, Gavin Ford wrote: The number one killer-app that I find stops people moving to Linux is games. Maybe some people, but not all. My wife, niece and brother all use Linux on their main computer. None of them are interested in games. They all use the pretty standard apps you get on any desktop. Windows is for gamers, because games are for Windows. I know a few people who dual boot Windows and Linux. Only using Windows for gaming. Seems ideal. I don't play computer games much so I don't have a Windows machine. All my gaming is covered by Gnome Mahjongg and ScummVM. Heh. My games are fulfilled by emulators such as xfuse (spectrum) and mame (arcade) :) Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
** Alan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-02-18 13:37]: On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 12:54 +, Gavin Ford wrote: The number one killer-app that I find stops people moving to Linux is games. Maybe some people, but not all. My wife, niece and brother all use Linux on their main computer. None of them are interested in games. They all use the pretty standard apps you get on any desktop. Same here, no interest in games at all on PCs, although my wife has just got hooked on Frozen Bubble :) Windows is for gamers, because games are for Windows. I know a few people who dual boot Windows and Linux. Only using Windows for gaming. Seems ideal. I actually gave up on PC games shortly after they started moving from DOS to Windows, although I wasn't a big DOS gamer either. I moved through the old 'micro' computers up to the Amiga, and when DOS/Windows started fouling the ease of gaming up realised that consoles were no longer the crippled computers they used to be. Windows was crippling computers, so consoles became useful :) I don't play computer games much so I don't have a Windows machine. All my gaming is covered by Gnome Mahjongg and ScummVM. Heh. My games are fulfilled by emulators such as xfuse (spectrum) and mame (arcade) :) Yay for retro ;) ** end quote [Alan Pope] -- Paul Tansom | Aptanet Ltd. | http://www.aptanet.com/ | 023 9238 0001 == Registered in England | Company No: 4905028 | Registered Office: Crawford House, Hambledon Road, Denmead, Waterlooville, Hants, PO7 6NU -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 13:33 +, Alan Pope wrote: I know a few people who dual boot Windows and Linux. Only using Windows for gaming. Seems ideal. I for one am on of these people - a victim of WoW. I have a perfectly legal and legit copy of Vista, just because i play games in what little spare time i have. All of the rest of the time (working/surfing/time killing) is spent in Linux. I have managed to get most (some?) of the games i have to run in Linux under Wine, though i must admit i have never tried Cedega. The one thing i find is that frame-rate is greatly reduced when running Windows games in Linux... i guess that is due to Wine. Also, sometimes the sound is buggy (don't we just love having so many sound engines!). Playing games (RTC Wolfenstein for instance) works well with the native client, but i have little hope or many more games going that way - which is a major pitty. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 13:54 +, Michael Holloway wrote: I have managed to get most (some?) of the games i have to run in Linux under Wine, though i must admit i have never tried Cedega. You can compile cedega from source FYI. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Cedega although I have never done this. The one thing i find is that frame-rate is greatly reduced when running Windows games in Linux... i guess that is due to Wine. Also, sometimes the sound is buggy (don't we just love having so many sound engines!). Interestingly some games run _faster_ under WINE/Cedega than they do under Windows :) Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:54:01 + Michael Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I for one am on of these people - a victim of WoW. I have a perfectly legal and legit copy of Vista, just because i play games in what little spare time i have. All of the rest of the time (working/surfing/time killing) is spent in Linux. I have managed to get most (some?) of the games i have to run in Linux under Wine, though i must admit i have never tried Cedega. I'm playing WoW quite happily through Wine in Gutsy. Of course if Wine didn't do such a good job of running it then I wouldn't now be addicted to WoW. That's the only MS Windows game I play though - everything is Free, through emulators (MAME, ScummVM) or on consoles. -- Dave Murphy - http://www.schwuk.com Get in touch - http://schwuk.com/static/contact-details -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
Gavin Ford wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 12:31:37AM +, Daniel Lamb wrote: No but seriously how can anyone have anything again linux? I really struggle with that. The number one killer-app that I find stops people moving to Linux is games. I have two elderly friends who use linux (kde) because it is stable, secure and worry free. they dont have any interest in games. Another elderly friend uses it for these reasons but also - not least- because of its open ethic. this also applies to myself + wife. Games: Au contraire to your suggestion, my grand daughter uses it *because* it has games. She is two years old. :-) -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
Just found this article: http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article3374812.ece the British company Elonex is launching the country’s first sub £100 computer later this month and hopes to be making 200,000 of them by the summer. So how can Elonex make a computer for so little? The secret is simple: open-source software. The One runs on Linux, which is a rival to Windows but completely free to use. Elonex will be launching the computer at the Education Show at the NEC in Birmingham at the end of this month, and is targeting schools as potential buyers. The elonex website seems to be down at the moment: http://www.elonex.co.uk So, anyone going to the Education Show? Anyone have any idea what distro it will be running? John -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
John Levin wrote: Just found this article: the British company Elonex is launching the country’s first sub £100 computer later this month and hopes to be making 200,000 of them by the summer. snip So, anyone going to the Education Show? Anyone have any idea what distro it will be running? More info at http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/17/elonex-one-englands-100-quid-laptop/ http://jkkmobile.blogspot.com/2008/01/another-simple-linux-umpc-fontastic.html Looks like most mentions originated with the TimesOnline article; but distro doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere. Mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
WOW I REALLY WANT ONE!!! The reason I never got an eee was the ridiculous price - £220!!?? I will start saving ASAP (Being 15, money is always scarce) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
Did anyone see the comment? I was pleased with this development until I read Linux Mike, Runcorn, United Kingdom I say we beat him until he changes his ways. No but seriously how can anyone have anything again linux? I really struggle with that. Regards, Daniel On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 00:02 +, James Grabham wrote: WOW I REALLY WANT ONE!!! The reason I never got an eee was the ridiculous price - £220!!?? I will start saving ASAP (Being 15, money is always scarce) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
I encounter such attitudes all the time, especially among old school businessmen. It usually changes once I boot up an Ubuntu live CD for them, but I often have to expend much dialogue in coercing them to even take a look. Tom Daniel Lamb wrote: Did anyone see the comment? I was pleased with this development until I read Linux Mike, Runcorn, United Kingdom I say we beat him until he changes his ways. No but seriously how can anyone have anything again linux? I really struggle with that. Regards, Daniel On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 00:02 +, James Grabham wrote: WOW I REALLY WANT ONE!!! The reason I never got an eee was the ridiculous price - £220!!?? I will start saving ASAP (Being 15, money is always scarce) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
Daniel Lamb wrote: No but seriously how can anyone have anything again linux? I really struggle with that. Hmm. I've been using Linux since Yggdrassil was the new kid on the block and I could get an SLS subscription on 3.5 floppies. And I definitely have things against Linux. Take off the rose tinted specs. The biggest problem with schools IT is training - not just for the teachers but also for the external support staff that have to help out. We gave serious consideration to trying to help improve our children's lower school facilities by reusing old systems, but in all honesty it woulf have become an albatross for the school as soon as the kids moved on and our interest in voluntary work to support that school died. James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'The One': new low-priced laptop with linux inside
On 2/18/08, James Mansion [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The biggest problem with schools IT is training - not just for the teachers but also for the external support staff that have to help out. We gave serious consideration to trying to Well, as I see it there are three major operating systems on the desktop at present... - Windows - OS-X - Linux ...of the three, one is completely different, and obviously hard to learn for those used to the other two... long established key combinations (Ctrl-C, Ctrl-R, Shift-Tab) simply do not work... the top menu changes contextually, so how to get back to what you were just doing isn't apparent... ...of course, what we're talking here is OS-X, an OS that is completely different... and, imho, very hard to use compared to the other two. ...Micro$oft borrowed things like Ctrl-C from Unix... Linux desktops have (KDE/Gnom at least) retained key combinations common to Windows users for ease of portability... Could it be that we're talking ourselves out of the school market, because I don't actually see where this problem that James refers to is... if location on the screen is a problem then both KDE and Gnome can be configured to look just like Windows... OpenOffice will provide all the things that MSOffice can, and don't be fooled by the let's give them the same software as they'll use in the workplace because software changes... a school that 5 years ago taught pupils Office 2000, is that any more relevant today than had they taught the concepts using Openoffice?!?! Of course not... because Office 2000 is probably no less different to Microsoft's latest beast than Openoffice... it's the concepts you're teaching, not a brand... They say that once you've been conditioned into a way of thinking it is hard to break out of it... this is nowhere more present than in the fear of anything not Micro$oft. When people do actually break out they are generally impressed by what they find... let's not put our product down... if people really want proprietary software there is always wine/Crossover... let's tackle the fear head on... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
