[uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
Hello everyone, I am facing classic dilemma of which distribution to go for. I have powerpc with mmu, MIPS, may be in future some other processor like ARM and I want to keep my code portable to multiple arch. Which means, if I use MMU/noMMU in both cases, I need to do less rework or no rework and easy software maintanability. My favorite is uclinux considering many ports and arch available on it and good developer base. Some options I was guessing by doing some little search on internet: 1) penguinppc for powerpc but won't be useful for other arch. 2) use kernel.org vanilla with uclinux but not sure if I can find web resources/guide to do porting easily or any help in software maintainability. 3) Add MMU support in uClinux What do you folks do in such case? It will be easier to decide if uClinux supports MMU. From link, http://www.ucdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/24/2353251 I think MMU is supported but I am still not sure. Can you pls confirm and if there is any web resources on it? Thank you, Tom ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] ltib vs uclinux-dist
Hi Philippe, Philippe De Muyter wrote: On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 10:20:36PM +1000, Greg Ungerer wrote: The arch trees of m68k and m68knommu have different structures. What will the structure of the merged tree look like ? I haven't given that too much thought yet. Most likely it would follow the m68k model, since it is essentially the m68knommu code and support being merged into it. Would you suppress the `platform' level ? My current thinking is yes. I was thinking about adding to the platforms under arch/m68k/. Something along the lines of adding there: coldfire 68x328 68360 But I haven't given it a lot of thought yet... Regards Greg Greg Ungerer -- Principal EngineerEMAIL: g...@snapgear.com SnapGear Group, McAfee PHONE: +61 7 3435 2888 825 Stanley St, FAX: +61 7 3891 3630 Woolloongabba, QLD, 4102, Australia WEB: http://www.SnapGear.com ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
Jivin tom gogh lays it down ... Hello everyone, I am facing classic dilemma of which distribution to go for. I have powerpc with mmu, MIPS, may be in future some other processor like ARM and I want to keep my code portable to multiple arch. Which means, if I use MMU/noMMU in both cases, I need to do less rework or no rework and easy software maintanability. My favorite is uclinux considering many ports and arch available on it and good developer base. Some options I was guessing by doing some little search on internet: 1) penguinppc for powerpc but won't be useful for other arch. 2) use kernel.org vanilla with uclinux but not sure if I can find web resources/guide to do porting easily or any help in software maintainability. 3) Add MMU support in uClinux What do you folks do in such case? It will be easier to decide if uClinux supports MMU. from link, http://www.ucdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/24/2353251 I think MMU is supported but I am still not sure. Can you pls confirm and if there is any web resources on it? uClinux-dist supports anything (MMU and !MMU). The kernel in the latest uClinux-dist's is as close to the kernel.org releases as possible. uClinux-dist even lets you add your own kernel easily. For example, take the penguinppc kernel, extract it to a directory at in the dists top level dir called something like linux-2.6.ppc, and do a make config, it will let you chose the new kernel for building. You will need to create a vendors/config/ppc directory, use the i386/arm versions as a template, probably just change the compiler names and you be close. You will need to check how well the uClibc version in the dist supports ppc as well, and you can always bring in a new version of uClibc (much like the kernel) if needed. We run arm, mips, x86, SH4, m68knommu and more out of the tree on a regular basis ;-) There's not really any doc on all this, but just ask here when you get stuck and someone will help you out, perhaps then you can write some doc for us ;-) ;-) Cheers, Davidm -- David McCullough, david_mccullo...@securecomputing.com, Ph:+61 734352815 McAfee - SnapGear http://www.snapgear.comhttp://www.uCdot.org ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
Hi Tom, tom gogh wrote: I am facing classic dilemma of which distribution to go for. I have powerpc with mmu, MIPS, may be in future some other processor like ARM and I want to keep my code portable to multiple arch. Which means, if I use MMU/noMMU in both cases, I need to do less rework or no rework and easy software maintanability. My favorite is uclinux considering many ports and arch available on it and good developer base. Some options I was guessing by doing some little search on internet: 1) penguinppc for powerpc but won't be useful for other arch. 2) use kernel.org vanilla with uclinux but not sure if I can find web resources/guide to do porting easily or any help in software maintainability. 3) Add MMU support in uClinux What do you folks do in such case? It will be easier to decide if uClinux supports MMU. From link, http://www.ucdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/24/2353251 I think MMU is supported but I am still not sure. Can you pls confirm and if there is any web resources on it? Yes, MMU processors are supported in the uClinux-dist. Have been for a very long time now. I used it to generate images for a lot of MMU based processor targets (architectures include x86, arm, mips, superH). You can just drop in kernel.org kernels if you want. No real effort required. Regards Greg Greg Ungerer -- Principal EngineerEMAIL: g...@snapgear.com SnapGear Group, McAfee PHONE: +61 7 3435 2888 825 Stanley St, FAX: +61 7 3891 3630 Woolloongabba, QLD, 4102, Australia WEB: http://www.SnapGear.com ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
tom gogh wrote: Which means, if I use MMU/noMMU in both cases, I need to do less rework or no rework and easy software maintanability. Are you targeting userland software or Kernel Work ? Normal userland software should not be greatly affected by the MMU. A common problem here is fork() (which is not provided by non-mmu-distributions). If your software does need forking, you might always use vfork() which is only slightly different from fork(). For the common case - just starting a program - fork() and vfork() work identically, when doing threads (sharing memory), IMHO, you should use pthreadlib instead of fork() anyway). -Michael ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
[uClinux-dev] Isochronous mode of ISP1362
Hi all, The current ISP1362 HCD of linux do not support ISO transfer mode. is there a version of isp1362 hcd supporting ISO mode or have someone developed such a patch? thanks ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
Thank David for clarifying this! MMU and !MMU support definitely makes everything easy for software and maintainability. I will definitely love to make doc and if possible, make contribution to uClinux through bug fixes or any patches if I encounter during my work. Regards, Tom --- On Fri, 9/4/09, David McCullough david_mccullo...@securecomputing.com wrote: From: David McCullough david_mccullo...@securecomputing.com Subject: Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU To: uClinux development list uclinux-dev@uclinux.org Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 3:17 AM Jivin tom gogh lays it down ... Hello everyone, I am facing classic dilemma of which distribution to go for. I have powerpc with mmu, MIPS, may be in future some other processor like ARM and I want to keep my code portable to multiple arch. Which means, if I use MMU/noMMU in both cases, I need to do less rework or no rework and easy software maintanability. My favorite is uclinux considering many ports and arch available on it and good developer base. Some options I was guessing by doing some little search on internet: 1) penguinppc for powerpc but won't be useful for other arch. 2) use kernel.org vanilla with uclinux but not sure if I can find web resources/guide to do porting easily or any help in software maintainability. 3) Add MMU support in uClinux What do you folks do in such case? It will be easier to decide if uClinux supports MMU. from link, http://www.ucdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/24/2353251 I think MMU is supported but I am still not sure. Can you pls confirm and if there is any web resources on it? uClinux-dist supports anything (MMU and !MMU). The kernel in the latest uClinux-dist's is as close to the kernel.org releases as possible. uClinux-dist even lets you add your own kernel easily. For example, take the penguinppc kernel, extract it to a directory at in the dists top level dir called something like linux-2.6.ppc, and do a make config, it will let you chose the new kernel for building. You will need to create a vendors/config/ppc directory, use the i386/arm versions as a template, probably just change the compiler names and you be close. You will need to check how well the uClibc version in the dist supports ppc as well, and you can always bring in a new version of uClibc (much like the kernel) if needed. We run arm, mips, x86, SH4, m68knommu and more out of the tree on a regular basis ;-) There's not really any doc on all this, but just ask here when you get stuck and someone will help you out, perhaps then you can write some doc for us ;-) ;-) Cheers, Davidm -- David McCullough, david_mccullo...@securecomputing.com, Ph:+61 734352815 McAfee - SnapGear http://www.snapgear.com http://www.uCdot.org ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
Thanks Greg for reply. I am looking for PPC first and hopefully other arch as I continue. Also, I am trying to have both MMU and noMMU because my understanding is noMMU might give better performance and better timing predictability (no VM exceptions for dynamic memory allocation). Definitely great Linux distribution to work on. Regards, Anand --- On Fri, 9/4/09, Greg Ungerer g...@snapgear.com wrote: From: Greg Ungerer g...@snapgear.com Subject: Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU To: uClinux development list uclinux-dev@uclinux.org Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 3:20 AM Hi Tom, tom gogh wrote: I am facing classic dilemma of which distribution to go for. I have powerpc with mmu, MIPS, may be in future some other processor like ARM and I want to keep my code portable to multiple arch. Which means, if I use MMU/noMMU in both cases, I need to do less rework or no rework and easy software maintanability. My favorite is uclinux considering many ports and arch available on it and good developer base. Some options I was guessing by doing some little search on internet: 1) penguinppc for powerpc but won't be useful for other arch. 2) use kernel.org vanilla with uclinux but not sure if I can find web resources/guide to do porting easily or any help in software maintainability. 3) Add MMU support in uClinux What do you folks do in such case? It will be easier to decide if uClinux supports MMU. From link, http://www.ucdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/24/2353251 I think MMU is supported but I am still not sure. Can you pls confirm and if there is any web resources on it? Yes, MMU processors are supported in the uClinux-dist. Have been for a very long time now. I used it to generate images for a lot of MMU based processor targets (architectures include x86, arm, mips, superH). You can just drop in kernel.org kernels if you want. No real effort required. Regards Greg Greg Ungerer -- Principal Engineer EMAIL: g...@snapgear.com SnapGear Group, McAfee PHONE: +61 7 3435 2888 825 Stanley St, FAX: +61 7 3891 3630 Woolloongabba, QLD, 4102, Australia WEB: http://www.SnapGear.com ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
Hi Michael, I don't have visibility of application at this point. But, right now I just want to get hw board booting. As I mentioned in my mail to Greg, I want to check how MMU and noMMU can make difference. I feel noMMU might give better performance. But, whatever loooks more lucrative to someone who wants to use my code, I will go with it in the end. I am ok with pthread but depending on more resiliency demand of code for crash or error handling, multiple-process with IPC is more marketing friendly. This is just experimental or hobby work I am doing at this point. Regards, Tom --- On Fri, 9/4/09, Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: From: Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de Subject: Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU To: uClinux development list uclinux-dev@uclinux.org Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 5:17 AM tom gogh wrote: Which means, if I use MMU/noMMU in both cases, I need to do less rework or no rework and easy software maintanability. Are you targeting userland software or Kernel Work ? Normal userland software should not be greatly affected by the MMU. A common problem here is fork() (which is not provided by non-mmu-distributions). If your software does need forking, you might always use vfork() which is only slightly different from fork(). For the common case - just starting a program - fork() and vfork() work identically, when doing threads (sharing memory), IMHO, you should use pthreadlib instead of fork() anyway). -Michael ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
[uClinux-dev] SNMP version in uClinux-dist
Hello all, The latest distribution I can find (uClinux-dist-20090618.tar.gz) still has version 5.2.1 of net-snmp. I've created a table based agent (using the table_dataset code) but it's really, really slow when I do snmpset on anything other than trivially small tables. The documentation suggests that this helper is obsolete and tdata should be used instead so I'd rather use the new helper but this only seems to appear after SNMP version 5.3. Are there any plans to update the version of net-snmp in the distribution? I'll try to add version 5.4 to the current distribution (I've found some instructions for this) but it would be great if I didn't have to do that every time I upgrade to a new dist. Thanks in advance Phil Mason -- Phil Mason Software Engineer Crystal Vision Ltd Tel: +44 (0)1223 497049 Fax: +44 (0)1223 497059 Website: www.crystalvision.tv Crystal Vision Ltd is registered in England number 03139895. Registered office: Lion Technology Park, Station Road East, Whittlesford, Cambridge, CB22 4WL, England. ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
uClinux-dist supports anything (MMU and !MMU). The kernel in the latest uClinux-dist's is as close to the kernel.org eleases as possible. uClinux-dist even lets you add your own kernel easily. For example, take the penguinppc kernel, extract it to a directory at in the dists top level dir called something like linux-2.6.ppc, and do a make config, it will let you chose the new kernel for building. So what is the purpose of the Snapgear project at this point? I've always thought of Snapgear as basically being uClinux extended to MMU-ful processors, but if the regular uClinux distribution now supports that, what's special about Snapgear? I've never tried to use the raw uClinux-dist by itself, so please excuse me if there's a fairly obvious answer to this question. If I used uClinux-dist by itself, would I be responsible for providing a toolchain and compatible uClibc/glibc? If this is the case, I can seen an advantage in Snapgear, since it provides all of this. --Dave ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
Re: [uClinux-dev] multiple arch with MMU/noMMU
Jivin Dave Rensberger lays it down ... uClinux-dist supports anything (MMU and !MMU). The kernel in the latest uClinux-dist's is as close to the kernel.org eleases as possible. uClinux-dist even lets you add your own kernel easily. For example, take the penguinppc kernel, extract it to a directory at in the dists top level dir called something like linux-2.6.ppc, and do a make config, it will let you chose the new kernel for building. So what is the purpose of the Snapgear project at this point? I've always thought of Snapgear as basically being uClinux extended to MMU-ful processors, but if the regular uClinux distribution now supports that, what's special about Snapgear? I've never tried to use the raw uClinux-dist by itself, so please excuse me if there's a fairly obvious answer to this question. If I used uClinux-dist by itself, would I be responsible for providing a toolchain and compatible uClibc/glibc? If this is the case, I can seen an advantage in Snapgear, since it provides all of this. Greg will probably give you the real bottom line, but, truth is, there is no difference. The SnapGear distribution and the uClinux-dist are the same. You can use the snapgear tools to build either eithout any problems :-) The snapgear distro serves a few corporate objectives: 1) It's far more obvious that this is the source that we use in our products. 2) It gives us some branding :-) Cheers, Davidm -- David McCullough, david_mccullo...@securecomputing.com, Ph:+61 734352815 McAfee - SnapGear http://www.snapgear.comhttp://www.uCdot.org ___ uClinux-dev mailing list uClinux-dev@uclinux.org http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/listinfo/uclinux-dev This message was resent by uclinux-dev@uclinux.org To unsubscribe see: http://mailman.uclinux.org/mailman/options/uclinux-dev
