Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mulindwa, all I was trying to make clear to you was that you can indeed have an elected parliament and at the same time have a monarchy. Examples are in abundance. But it seems your brain is not even able to grasp this fact. I have done you a favour and gone to the kid next door as you requested ( I knew that a more elaborate explanation would only have confused your little brain anyway). According to his dictionary: Federalism is a system of government in which several states unite, usually for foreign policy, etc, but retain considerable control over their own internal affairs; Feudalism is a system under which people receive land and protection from the landowner and work fight for him in return. According to you, this may be one and the same thing, but it isn't so to most people. Now can you answer my question about what resources you are going to generate your income from. Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:04:50 -0400 Kasangwawo Do your self a favour, go and borrow a dictionary from a kid next to you block and look for these two words. Federalism and feudalism. Then get back to me after. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:40 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale What's troubling your little brain now, grumpy old man ? The Buganda institution (in my language we call it the Great Lukiiko) will be elected just like the Swedish parliament is elected and they still have a king; just like the Scottish parliament is elected but they have a Queen; just like the Welsh parliament is elected but they still have a Queen. Need I go on ? Is this clearer to you now ? I really don't see where your confusion is coming from. Maybe its because you come from a culture that is ignorant of royalty. Okay, so you're refraining from the term 'sources of income', let's then go back to your level. What resources do you have to generate income from ? Millet or beans ? Are you also going to try out the barter trade ? Be real ! Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:46:32 -0400 Kasngwawo Wait a minute, how will the Buganda institution be elected when it will be led by Ssabasajja? Are going to elect the king of Buganda? Or you are simply stating that Buganda will have Ssabasajja as a cultural leader but Buganda will have administrative leaders who will be elected? Please clarify what you are trying to say here. I am for creating jobs, and Kasangwawo forget the term I used Sources of income let us go back to the normal level of Ugandan discussion. Why? Because I am one of those people who believe that we must live in our means, we must generate our own income from the resources we have, so I will not go to World bank to beg for funds as Museveni does, or to Museveni as Ssabasajja does. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, for the thousandth time, under a federal arrangement the representatives in the Buganda institution will be elected and they will be accountable to the people who elect them. But maybe you can start by telling us how you are going to create sources of income - where are you going to get the funds ? Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:35:40 -0400 Kasangwawo What is normal is any state any country or any organisation, is to start by creating sources of income, after you have those sources then you will know how and if you can/will tax the population. It is very complicated to build a house starting from the roof. Secondly are you sure a Mugisu or even a Muganda will pay his taxes to Mengo, an institution that is (a) corrupt and (b) un elected? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale\ Mulindwa
Mulindwa, stop beating around the bush and answer the man's question ! Is accountability a system ? The question is direct and clear. Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale\ Mulindwa Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:39:04 -0400 Mwaami Ssenyange I am going to try my best to go as slow with you as possible, may be you will pick up some thing. Accountability comes from good leadership. Be well Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: ssenya nyange [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:52 PM Subject: ugnet_: Re: Nadduli Defends Land Sale\ Mulindwa Mulindwa, Is accountability a system? What are the sub systems of accountability? Accountable means as per Wester dictionary subject to the obligation to report, explain or justify something; responsible; answerable. If you want a sytem that can guarantee a check on the powerful presidents, that system must have a strong judicial system ( as is the case of Britain) or a devolution \ shared of powers to the regions = Federal. So long as there is shared powers, no one will have the power to check on Museveni, Obote, Amin future presidents. It took Obote 4 years to destroy that system ( federal) and the consiquencies you know- arrest without trial, state killings without probe or arrests; interanal wars of resistancy; pegion holes constituions; panda gali; adduyi; Now Mulindwa, tell us how your Accountability is a system. Lastly, you as hatemonger has no place in modern Uganda. Stop covering your self. The late Mulindwa (RIP) who was in Museveni's PPU ( Presidentila Press Unit) used to cover him self that way. He was buried 2 or 3 years ago in Kasese or Bundibujjo. J. Ssenyange -- From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:53:57 -0400 Kasangwawo ACCOUNTABILITY Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale system, system, system ! What is this 'system' you are proposing ? Has it got a name ? From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:54:12 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a very good word, a system. We plug holes in a system. A whole system. On and on. That is where my question comes from, do we have a system in Uganda? Do we have a system in Buganda? Do we have a system in Mengo? If you were given a chance to work in Mengo today where do you start to plug, for you can not even plug, for we plug systems and Mengo has none. Am I talking to my own shadows today? Look here what I see when I look at Uganda today, Uganda is a very corrupt nation, NRM government can not succeed if the population is corrupt as it is, so is a DP government, so is a UPC government, so is Mengo government, so is a Unitary system so is a federalism system. Let me put it to you in a milk bottle. What we need in Uganda is a situation where Iddi Amin can come and form a government and go, where UPC can come and form a government and go, where Museveni and the movement bus can come and go.Where uniterism can come and go, where federalism can come and go. A system which is permanent, a system which stays as governments come and go. That system will state that every single Ugandan has a right to be alive. So if we get Museveni who comes with a planed agenda to decimate Northerners, the system kicks him out and the system stays. And yes you can refuse my analogy, but let me tell you today that one crap leader will look on Uganda's problem and will conclude that Uganda is so fucked up for Baganda are going with waves and they back all Killers we get in Uganda. A decision will be made to kill as many Baganda as possible. What system will protect you? We need a system which creates a national army, an army which stays whether a government is in power or not. But here is the catch, how can you discuss that with Mengo, an enterprise which decides to discuss
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Accountability ? Give over ! Is accountability a system ? Does that mean that if you have a dictator like Hitler and he is accountable, that's fine with you ? From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:53:57 -0400 Kasangwawo ACCOUNTABILITY Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale system, system, system ! What is this 'system' you are proposing ? Has it got a name ? From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:54:12 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a very good word, a system. We plug holes in a system. A whole system. On and on. That is where my question comes from, do we have a system in Uganda? Do we have a system in Buganda? Do we have a system in Mengo? If you were given a chance to work in Mengo today where do you start to plug, for you can not even plug, for we plug systems and Mengo has none. Am I talking to my own shadows today? Look here what I see when I look at Uganda today, Uganda is a very corrupt nation, NRM government can not succeed if the population is corrupt as it is, so is a DP government, so is a UPC government, so is Mengo government, so is a Unitary system so is a federalism system. Let me put it to you in a milk bottle. What we need in Uganda is a situation where Iddi Amin can come and form a government and go, where UPC can come and form a government and go, where Museveni and the movement bus can come and go.Where uniterism can come and go, where federalism can come and go. A system which is permanent, a system which stays as governments come and go. That system will state that every single Ugandan has a right to be alive. So if we get Museveni who comes with a planed agenda to decimate Northerners, the system kicks him out and the system stays. And yes you can refuse my analogy, but let me tell you today that one crap leader will look on Uganda's problem and will conclude that Uganda is so fucked up for Baganda are going with waves and they back all Killers we get in Uganda. A decision will be made to kill as many Baganda as possible. What system will protect you? We need a system which creates a national army, an army which stays whether a government is in power or not. But here is the catch, how can you discuss that with Mengo, an enterprise which decides to discuss the future of Uganda with Museveni a man who has even failed to establish a national army? A man who rules Uganda through a Resistance army? A man who pleads for Federalism but can not reinstate the kingdom of his own area Ankole? Would have you taken me serious if I went to Busoga and preached the return of Kingdoms when I have trashed the one of Buganda? It leaves me with only one option, Buganda has a population of un-critical thinkers, or Buganda suports Museveni for he has a plan to make Uganda taken over by Southerners, thus the threats of Nagadya, Love Federalism or you are TOST. Which means that to Buganda Museveni is a tool of conquest, for that is how Buganda developed to where she is. So who cares about the deaths of Northerners when Buganda will expand? Didn't this happen in Buyaga and Bugangazzi? Give me a break Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mr. Mulindwa, firstly my allusion to enron was in answer to your allusion that because of one negative instance a whole system should be discontinued. The American approach to corperate corruption has been to plug the loop holes in the system, not to totally cut it, because they realise that the benefits far outway the negatives unlike your approach of throwing away the baby with the bathwater. Which means by you reasoning anytime there is a negative occurance in our systems we should scrap it and start something else from scratch. Well if we are to go by that reasoning then we will never develope as a country because part of developing is making mistakes and learning from them. This is where Africa has failed woefully as can be seen from your
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
What's troubling your little brain now, grumpy old man ? The Buganda institution (in my language we call it the Great Lukiiko) will be elected just like the Swedish parliament is elected and they still have a king; just like the Scottish parliament is elected but they have a Queen; just like the Welsh parliament is elected but they still have a Queen. Need I go on ? Is this clearer to you now ? I really don't see where your confusion is coming from. Maybe its because you come from a culture that is ignorant of royalty. Okay, so you're refraining from the term 'sources of income', let's then go back to your level. What resources do you have to generate income from ? Millet or beans ? Are you also going to try out the barter trade ? Be real ! Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:46:32 -0400 Kasngwawo Wait a minute, how will the Buganda institution be elected when it will be led by Ssabasajja? Are going to elect the king of Buganda? Or you are simply stating that Buganda will have Ssabasajja as a cultural leader but Buganda will have administrative leaders who will be elected? Please clarify what you are trying to say here. I am for creating jobs, and Kasangwawo forget the term I used Sources of income let us go back to the normal level of Ugandan discussion. Why? Because I am one of those people who believe that we must live in our means, we must generate our own income from the resources we have, so I will not go to World bank to beg for funds as Museveni does, or to Museveni as Ssabasajja does. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, for the thousandth time, under a federal arrangement the representatives in the Buganda institution will be elected and they will be accountable to the people who elect them. But maybe you can start by telling us how you are going to create sources of income - where are you going to get the funds ? Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:35:40 -0400 Kasangwawo What is normal is any state any country or any organisation, is to start by creating sources of income, after you have those sources then you will know how and if you can/will tax the population. It is very complicated to build a house starting from the roof. Secondly are you sure a Mugisu or even a Muganda will pay his taxes to Mengo, an institution that is (a) corrupt and (b) un elected? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:59 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, you seem to have specialized in taking statements out of context and trying to use them to satisfy your motives. The facts I gave to COO were related to the issue of the status of Kampala at the time (early 60s) and he hasn't challenged them. I never claimed that the tax base now is the same as it was then. I'm not quite sure where you got that stuff about graduated tax but it seems you are just making it up. I doubt your little brain is able to follow the intricacies of taxation. I shall therefore just restrict myself to giving you a list of the type of taxes federalists are proposing for the different levels of government. As you will see, there is no mention of the graduated tax which you are accusing federalists of proposing. And, yes, under a federal system, whether he feels comfortable or not, a Mugisu living in Bweyogerere will have to pay taxes to the Buganda government for that's where he will be getting his services from. Kasangwawo .. Taxation Federal, State and Local governments shall have the ability to raise taxes to meet their administrative, social, economic, and development responsibilities. Tax collection shall be either shared (concurrent), or Exclusive. Federal Revenue Authorities shall collect federal taxes, while State and Local Revenue Authorities shall collect State and Local taxes. Concurrent Federal and State Taxes The Federal Government and the States shall share the following taxes
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Kasangwawo Do your self a favour, go and borrow a dictionary from a kid next to you block and look for these two words. Federalism and feudalism. Then get back to me after. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:40 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale What's troubling your little brain now, grumpy old man ? The Buganda institution (in my language we call it the Great Lukiiko) will be elected just like the Swedish parliament is elected and they still have a king; just like the Scottish parliament is elected but they have a Queen; just like the Welsh parliament is elected but they still have a Queen. Need I go on ? Is this clearer to you now ? I really don't see where your confusion is coming from. Maybe its because you come from a culture that is ignorant of royalty. Okay, so you're refraining from the term 'sources of income', let's then go back to your level. What resources do you have to generate income from ? Millet or beans ? Are you also going to try out the barter trade ? Be real ! Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:46:32 -0400 Kasngwawo Wait a minute, how will the Buganda institution be elected when it will be led by Ssabasajja? Are going to elect the king of Buganda? Or you are simply stating that Buganda will have Ssabasajja as a cultural leader but Buganda will have administrative leaders who will be elected? Please clarify what you are trying to say here. I am for creating jobs, and Kasangwawo forget the term I used Sources of income let us go back to the normal level of Ugandan discussion. Why? Because I am one of those people who believe that we must live in our means, we must generate our own income from the resources we have, so I will not go to World bank to beg for funds as Museveni does, or to Museveni as Ssabasajja does. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, for the thousandth time, under a federal arrangement the representatives in the Buganda institution will be elected and they will be accountable to the people who elect them. But maybe you can start by telling us how you are going to create sources of income - where are you going to get the funds ? Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:35:40 -0400 Kasangwawo What is normal is any state any country or any organisation, is to start by creating sources of income, after you have those sources then you will know how and if you can/will tax the population. It is very complicated to build a house starting from the roof. Secondly are you sure a Mugisu or even a Muganda will pay his taxes to Mengo, an institution that is (a) corrupt and (b) un elected? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:59 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, you seem to have specialized in taking statements out of context and trying to use them to satisfy your motives. The facts I gave to COO were related to the issue of the status of Kampala at the time (early 60s) and he hasn't challenged them. I never claimed that the tax base now is the same as it was then. I'm not quite sure where you got that stuff about graduated tax but it seems you are just making it up. I doubt your little brain is able to follow the intricacies of taxation. I shall therefore just restrict myself to giving you a list of the type of taxes federalists are proposing for the different levels of government. As you will see, there is no mention of the graduated tax which you are accusing federalists of proposing. And, yes, under a federal system, whether he feels
ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale\ Mulindwa
Mwaami Ssenyange I am going to try my best to go as slow with you as possible, may be you will pick up some thing. Accountability comes from good leadership. Be well Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: ssenya nyange [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:52 PM Subject: ugnet_: Re: Nadduli Defends Land Sale\ Mulindwa Mulindwa, Is accountability a system? What are the sub systems of accountability? Accountable means as per Wester dictionary subject to the obligation to report, explain or justify something; responsible; answerable. If you want a sytem that can guarantee a check on the powerful presidents, that system must have a strong judicial system ( as is the case of Britain) or a devolution \ shared of powers to the regions = Federal. So long as there is shared powers, no one will have the power to check on Museveni, Obote, Amin future presidents. It took Obote 4 years to destroy that system ( federal) and the consiquencies you know- arrest without trial, state killings without probe or arrests; interanal wars of resistancy; pegion holes constituions; panda gali; adduyi; Now Mulindwa, tell us how your Accountability is a system. Lastly, you as hatemonger has no place in modern Uganda. Stop covering your self. The late Mulindwa (RIP) who was in Museveni's PPU ( Presidentila Press Unit) used to cover him self that way. He was buried 2 or 3 years ago in Kasese or Bundibujjo. J. Ssenyange -- From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:53:57 -0400 Kasangwawo ACCOUNTABILITY Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale system, system, system ! What is this 'system' you are proposing ? Has it got a name ? From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:54:12 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a very good word, a system. We plug holes in a system. A whole system. On and on. That is where my question comes from, do we have a system in Uganda? Do we have a system in Buganda? Do we have a system in Mengo? If you were given a chance to work in Mengo today where do you start to plug, for you can not even plug, for we plug systems and Mengo has none. Am I talking to my own shadows today? Look here what I see when I look at Uganda today, Uganda is a very corrupt nation, NRM government can not succeed if the population is corrupt as it is, so is a DP government, so is a UPC government, so is Mengo government, so is a Unitary system so is a federalism system. Let me put it to you in a milk bottle. What we need in Uganda is a situation where Iddi Amin can come and form a government and go, where UPC can come and form a government and go, where Museveni and the movement bus can come and go.Where uniterism can come and go, where federalism can come and go. A system which is permanent, a system which stays as governments come and go. That system will state that every single Ugandan has a right to be alive. So if we get Museveni who comes with a planed agenda to decimate Northerners, the system kicks him out and the system stays. And yes you can refuse my analogy, but let me tell you today that one crap leader will look on Uganda's problem and will conclude that Uganda is so fucked up for Baganda are going with waves and they back all Killers we get in Uganda. A decision will be made to kill as many Baganda as possible. What system will protect you? We need a system which creates a national army, an army which stays whether a government is in power or not. But here is the catch, how can you discuss that with Mengo, an enterprise which decides to discuss the future of Uganda with Museveni a man who has even failed to establish a national army? A man who rules Uganda through a Resistance army? A man who pleads for Federalism but can not reinstate the kingdom of his own area Ankole? Would have you taken me serious if I went to Busoga and preached the return of Kingdoms when I have trashed the one
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mulindwa, for the thousandth time, under a federal arrangement the representatives in the Buganda institution will be elected and they will be accountable to the people who elect them. But maybe you can start by telling us how you are going to create sources of income - where are you going to get the funds ? Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:35:40 -0400 Kasangwawo What is normal is any state any country or any organisation, is to start by creating sources of income, after you have those sources then you will know how and if you can/will tax the population. It is very complicated to build a house starting from the roof. Secondly are you sure a Mugisu or even a Muganda will pay his taxes to Mengo, an institution that is (a) corrupt and (b) un elected? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:59 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, you seem to have specialized in taking statements out of context and trying to use them to satisfy your motives. The facts I gave to COO were related to the issue of the status of Kampala at the time (early 60s) and he hasn't challenged them. I never claimed that the tax base now is the same as it was then. I'm not quite sure where you got that stuff about graduated tax but it seems you are just making it up. I doubt your little brain is able to follow the intricacies of taxation. I shall therefore just restrict myself to giving you a list of the type of taxes federalists are proposing for the different levels of government. As you will see, there is no mention of the graduated tax which you are accusing federalists of proposing. And, yes, under a federal system, whether he feels comfortable or not, a Mugisu living in Bweyogerere will have to pay taxes to the Buganda government for that's where he will be getting his services from. Kasangwawo .. Taxation Federal, State and Local governments shall have the ability to raise taxes to meet their administrative, social, economic, and development responsibilities. Tax collection shall be either shared (concurrent), or Exclusive. Federal Revenue Authorities shall collect federal taxes, while State and Local Revenue Authorities shall collect State and Local taxes. Concurrent Federal and State Taxes The Federal Government and the States shall share the following taxes: a) Personal Income Tax (PIT), Federal Government 35%, States 65% (Germany) b) Corporate Income Tax (CIT), Federal Government, 35%, States 65% (Germany) c) Value Added Tax (VAT), also called the Retail Sales Tax (RST) d) Tobacco Tax e) Gasoline Tax f) Fuel Tax - this and the gasoline tax g) Mining Tax h) Capital gains tax, 50% inclusion rate i) Excise taxes j) Alcohol taxes k) Levies on gambling establishments Exclusive Federal Taxes The federal government shall collect all Equalization taxes and redistribute the revenue among the states according to the formulas set by law. Exclusive Local Government Taxes The Lower Local governments including Municipalities, Districts and Counties shall collect the following taxes: Property Taxes Business taxes Market taxes Taxi Parks Trading Licenses Housing Estates From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:44:27 -0400 In as much as Naduli might be right or wrong, but Buganda must and should start to think in the 21st century. Buganda must look into investment, into job creation, into creating tax bases. But you see it is only comical when we complain on what we must be given. That is why I was so amazed that I have spent now almost three years preaching a gospel of stopping graduated tax system in Uganda, for it is surely the most primitive taxation one can look at. But here I was and Buganda has put its foot down for if it does not get taxation rights in Uganda it is going to refuse the federalism. Where are the critical thinkers in Buganda? Is there any nation you know today that Uses graduated tax system for its funds? It is primitive and it must be stopped hence forth. But Buganda is crying for that and today. Then you look on another one, one of the Preachers of Mengo sermon in the forum, last week reminded COO that Buganda was given the Kampala tax base, which included the Indians'buisnesses. Well but today the Indians are no longer in Uganda, if they are there, the tax base is not as it was, Again Buganda stop thinking
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mulindwa, do not flatter yourself that your simplistic suggestions are that of a critical thinker. You should also not be surprised when people don't make any comments about your lousy and trivial proposals. To think that the best way to modernize the kingdom is by moving its leadership to Bamunanika is nonsensical to say the least and is of no consequence. I must say though I was quite amused by one of the questions you put to Mwami Musaazi. You ask: Has it occurred to you that all they want is a right to sleep in their homes?. Eh ! Is what is good for the others not good for the Baganda ? Are you now saying that all they want is 'Ffe kasita twebaka ku tulo' when you have constantly been blaming the Baganda for wanting the same ? Do you now realize how the Baganda must have felt when your hero's men didn't give them a chance to enjoy this right ? Kasangwawo From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:52:35 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi Has it occurred to you that a good number of Ugandans are so oppressed in their own country today that they do not even care whether it is federalism or uniterism or KY or Movement? Has it occurred to you that all they want is a right to sleep in their homes? Secondly I want you to look very carefully at Nagadya's posting, it is the usual complaint. I posted a good number of things we as Baganda must look at if we are to move our Kingdom from the 1500 to 2003. I pointed out the moving of the Buganda leadership to Bamunanika, I mentioned the putting Buganda buildings on rent than using them as slams in the city, I talked Sheraton using Bulange , I talked about the enormous land in Bamunanika where we can expand the kingdom. Did Nagadya comment on any of those? No for not only her self but any other Muganda does not want to talk about them for then Buganda will have started to have critical thinkers. But she went for taxes. Exactly that is what she can throw in the bowl. You see it is very wrong for us to think that this Kingdom will survive for all of us kneel for the king. We must start to think as if we are in 2003 and Nagadya can not. What Nagadya can do is to tell you that in Texas they collect taxes, you are as well giving me an example of Enron so if we have corruption in the Americas why should we bother if it is in Uganda. Well Iddi Amin used to say that why do you complain when one person is shot in Kampala, have you eve been in Detroit? It is interesting that you decided to down play my reasoning using an analogy of an illiterate man. But let me then ask you this only question. Texas collects taxes, but Texas creates jobs, and as state they decide on how much to tax depending on how many jobs created. They use the same numbers to lower or totally remove the same. Can you Mwaami Musaazi and Mukyaala Nagaddya tell me how many of your relatives are employed, thanks to Mengo job creation? Or you are going to tax our containers we sent to Uganda and graduated tax just as all old gover nments have been doing? Or you want us as Ugandans allow you collect our taxes and in the end you will create the jobs? How exactly is this going to work? I have stated before and I will state again, Uganda's problem is neither uniterism nor Federalism, it is neither UPC nor DP, it is neither UPM nor KY. Uganda's problem is LEADERSHIP. We need to create a system where all the above modalities can work. If you remove Amin from power for he puts people on Kalitunsi and shoots them, you end up with the movement which shoots them with out trial. What is better? Stop blaming uniterism and ask your self one question do I have a system in Uganda? That might be a little complicated for you to answer though for you are not a critical thinker. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 2:42 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale But Mulindwa, past errors should not stop us from moving forward. You talk about accountability in the US what about the ERON case and other on going corperate scandals which are unfolded are you suggesting that because of those problems, corperate America should be shut down. All systems be they in Uganda or America are run by human beings and i'm yet to see or hear of a human run system that is 100% perfect. Look i would like to one day go to west nile, Acholi, Langi etc and see developments of the scale or even greater than what is found in Kampala or Buganda and probably even own a home there, i think your plan ties people down into an inferiority complex where non-Baganda feel
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
system, system, system ! What is this 'system' you are proposing ? Has it got a name ? From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:54:12 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a very good word, a system. We plug holes in a system. A whole system. On and on. That is where my question comes from, do we have a system in Uganda? Do we have a system in Buganda? Do we have a system in Mengo? If you were given a chance to work in Mengo today where do you start to plug, for you can not even plug, for we plug systems and Mengo has none. Am I talking to my own shadows today? Look here what I see when I look at Uganda today, Uganda is a very corrupt nation, NRM government can not succeed if the population is corrupt as it is, so is a DP government, so is a UPC government, so is Mengo government, so is a Unitary system so is a federalism system. Let me put it to you in a milk bottle. What we need in Uganda is a situation where Iddi Amin can come and form a government and go, where UPC can come and form a government and go, where Museveni and the movement bus can come and go.Where uniterism can come and go, where federalism can come and go. A system which is permanent, a system which stays as governments come and go. That system will state that every single Ugandan has a right to be alive. So if we get Museveni who comes with a planed agenda to decimate Northerners, the system kicks him out and the system stays. And yes you can refuse my analogy, but let me tell you today that one crap leader will look on Uganda's problem and will conclude that Uganda is so fucked up for Baganda are going with waves and they back all Killers we get in Uganda. A decision will be made to kill as many Baganda as possible. What system will protect you? We need a system which creates a national army, an army which stays whether a government is in power or not. But here is the catch, how can you discuss that with Mengo, an enterprise which decides to discuss the future of Uganda with Museveni a man who has even failed to establish a national army? A man who rules Uganda through a Resistance army? A man who pleads for Federalism but can not reinstate the kingdom of his own area Ankole? Would have you taken me serious if I went to Busoga and preached the return of Kingdoms when I have trashed the one of Buganda? It leaves me with only one option, Buganda has a population of un-critical thinkers, or Buganda suports Museveni for he has a plan to make Uganda taken over by Southerners, thus the threats of Nagadya, Love Federalism or you are TOST. Which means that to Buganda Museveni is a tool of conquest, for that is how Buganda developed to where she is. So who cares about the deaths of Northerners when Buganda will expand? Didn't this happen in Buyaga and Bugangazzi? Give me a break Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mr. Mulindwa, firstly my allusion to enron was in answer to your allusion that because of one negative instance a whole system should be discontinued. The American approach to corperate corruption has been to plug the loop holes in the system, not to totally cut it, because they realise that the benefits far outway the negatives unlike your approach of throwing away the baby with the bathwater. Which means by you reasoning anytime there is a negative occurance in our systems we should scrap it and start something else from scratch. Well if we are to go by that reasoning then we will never develope as a country because part of developing is making mistakes and learning from them. This is where Africa has failed woefully as can be seen from your reasoning. Further more whether you like it or not tax collection and allocation must be part of the discussions on federalism and there is nothing wrong with that. Infact this one of the key issues around any system of government (Unitary of Federal) which if not amikably resolved can lead to a lot of problems. You bring up a lot of diversionary issues which are not really important, they only serve to disunite Ugandans (the usual scare tactics...preaching doom doom doom, which never comes). Supposing tomorrow large quantities of oil were found in Acholi land and most of government revenue was obtained from those resources, do you think the people Acholi (and rightly so) will not ask for a re-evaluation of the tax collection/allocation regime of the day? Have you been following the situation in Nigeria and the plight
ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Kasngwawo Wait a minute, how will the Buganda institution be elected when it will be led by Ssabasajja? Are going to elect the king of Buganda? Or you are simply stating that Buganda will have Ssabasajja as a cultural leader but Buganda will have administrative leaders who will be elected? Please clarify what you are trying to say here. I am for creating jobs, and Kasangwawo forget the term I used Sources of income let us go back to the normal level of Ugandan discussion. Why? Because I am one of those people who believe that we must live in our means, we must generate our own income from the resources we have, so I will not go to World bank to beg for funds as Museveni does, or to Museveni as Ssabasajja does. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, for the thousandth time, under a federal arrangement the representatives in the Buganda institution will be elected and they will be accountable to the people who elect them. But maybe you can start by telling us how you are going to create sources of income - where are you going to get the funds ? Kasangwawo From: Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:35:40 -0400 Kasangwawo What is normal is any state any country or any organisation, is to start by creating sources of income, after you have those sources then you will know how and if you can/will tax the population. It is very complicated to build a house starting from the roof. Secondly are you sure a Mugisu or even a Muganda will pay his taxes to Mengo, an institution that is (a) corrupt and (b) un elected? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:59 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, you seem to have specialized in taking statements out of context and trying to use them to satisfy your motives. The facts I gave to COO were related to the issue of the status of Kampala at the time (early 60s) and he hasn't challenged them. I never claimed that the tax base now is the same as it was then. I'm not quite sure where you got that stuff about graduated tax but it seems you are just making it up. I doubt your little brain is able to follow the intricacies of taxation. I shall therefore just restrict myself to giving you a list of the type of taxes federalists are proposing for the different levels of government. As you will see, there is no mention of the graduated tax which you are accusing federalists of proposing. And, yes, under a federal system, whether he feels comfortable or not, a Mugisu living in Bweyogerere will have to pay taxes to the Buganda government for that's where he will be getting his services from. Kasangwawo .. Taxation Federal, State and Local governments shall have the ability to raise taxes to meet their administrative, social, economic, and development responsibilities. Tax collection shall be either shared (concurrent), or Exclusive. Federal Revenue Authorities shall collect federal taxes, while State and Local Revenue Authorities shall collect State and Local taxes. Concurrent Federal and State Taxes The Federal Government and the States shall share the following taxes: a) Personal Income Tax (PIT), Federal Government 35%, States 65% (Germany) b) Corporate Income Tax (CIT), Federal Government, 35%, States 65% (Germany) c) Value Added Tax (VAT), also called the Retail Sales Tax (RST) d) Tobacco Tax e) Gasoline Tax f) Fuel Tax - this and the gasoline tax g) Mining Tax h) Capital gains tax, 50% inclusion rate i) Excise taxes j) Alcohol taxes k) Levies on gambling establishments Exclusive Federal Taxes The federal government shall collect all Equalization taxes and redistribute the revenue among the states according to the formulas set by law. Exclusive Local Government Taxes The Lower Local governments including Municipalities, Districts and Counties shall collect the following taxes: Property Taxes Business taxes Market taxes Taxi Parks Trading Licenses Housing Estates From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Kasangwawo ACCOUNTABILITY Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale system, system, system ! What is this 'system' you are proposing ? Has it got a name ? From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:54:12 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a very good word, a system. We plug holes in a system. A whole system. On and on. That is where my question comes from, do we have a system in Uganda? Do we have a system in Buganda? Do we have a system in Mengo? If you were given a chance to work in Mengo today where do you start to plug, for you can not even plug, for we plug systems and Mengo has none. Am I talking to my own shadows today? Look here what I see when I look at Uganda today, Uganda is a very corrupt nation, NRM government can not succeed if the population is corrupt as it is, so is a DP government, so is a UPC government, so is Mengo government, so is a Unitary system so is a federalism system. Let me put it to you in a milk bottle. What we need in Uganda is a situation where Iddi Amin can come and form a government and go, where UPC can come and form a government and go, where Museveni and the movement bus can come and go.Where uniterism can come and go, where federalism can come and go. A system which is permanent, a system which stays as governments come and go. That system will state that every single Ugandan has a right to be alive. So if we get Museveni who comes with a planed agenda to decimate Northerners, the system kicks him out and the system stays. And yes you can refuse my analogy, but let me tell you today that one crap leader will look on Uganda's problem and will conclude that Uganda is so fucked up for Baganda are going with waves and they back all Killers we get in Uganda. A decision will be made to kill as many Baganda as possible. What system will protect you? We need a system which creates a national army, an army which stays whether a government is in power or not. But here is the catch, how can you discuss that with Mengo, an enterprise which decides to discuss the future of Uganda with Museveni a man who has even failed to establish a national army? A man who rules Uganda through a Resistance army? A man who pleads for Federalism but can not reinstate the kingdom of his own area Ankole? Would have you taken me serious if I went to Busoga and preached the return of Kingdoms when I have trashed the one of Buganda? It leaves me with only one option, Buganda has a population of un-critical thinkers, or Buganda suports Museveni for he has a plan to make Uganda taken over by Southerners, thus the threats of Nagadya, Love Federalism or you are TOST. Which means that to Buganda Museveni is a tool of conquest, for that is how Buganda developed to where she is. So who cares about the deaths of Northerners when Buganda will expand? Didn't this happen in Buyaga and Bugangazzi? Give me a break Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mr. Mulindwa, firstly my allusion to enron was in answer to your allusion that because of one negative instance a whole system should be discontinued. The American approach to corperate corruption has been to plug the loop holes in the system, not to totally cut it, because they realise that the benefits far outway the negatives unlike your approach of throwing away the baby with the bathwater. Which means by you reasoning anytime there is a negative occurance in our systems we should scrap it and start something else from scratch. Well if we are to go by that reasoning then we will never develope as a country because part of developing is making mistakes and learning from them. This is where Africa has failed woefully as can be seen from your reasoning. Further more whether you like it or not tax collection and allocation must be part of the discussions on federalism and there is nothing wrong with that. Infact this one of the key issues around any system of government (Unitary of Federal) which if not amikably resolved can lead to a lot of problems. You bring up a lot
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mulindwa, you seem to have specialized in taking statements out of context and trying to use them to satisfy your motives. The facts I gave to COO were related to the issue of the status of Kampala at the time (early 60s) and he hasn't challenged them. I never claimed that the tax base now is the same as it was then. I'm not quite sure where you got that stuff about graduated tax but it seems you are just making it up. I doubt your little brain is able to follow the intricacies of taxation. I shall therefore just restrict myself to giving you a list of the type of taxes federalists are proposing for the different levels of government. As you will see, there is no mention of the graduated tax which you are accusing federalists of proposing. And, yes, under a federal system, whether he feels comfortable or not, a Mugisu living in Bweyogerere will have to pay taxes to the Buganda government for that's where he will be getting his services from. Kasangwawo .. Taxation Federal, State and Local governments shall have the ability to raise taxes to meet their administrative, social, economic, and development responsibilities. Tax collection shall be either shared (concurrent), or Exclusive. Federal Revenue Authorities shall collect federal taxes, while State and Local Revenue Authorities shall collect State and Local taxes. Concurrent Federal and State Taxes The Federal Government and the States shall share the following taxes: a) Personal Income Tax (PIT), Federal Government 35%, States 65% (Germany) b) Corporate Income Tax (CIT), Federal Government, 35%, States 65% (Germany) c) Value Added Tax (VAT), also called the Retail Sales Tax (RST) d) Tobacco Tax e) Gasoline Tax f) Fuel Tax - this and the gasoline tax g) Mining Tax h) Capital gains tax, 50% inclusion rate i) Excise taxes j) Alcohol taxes k) Levies on gambling establishments Exclusive Federal Taxes The federal government shall collect all Equalization taxes and redistribute the revenue among the states according to the formulas set by law. Exclusive Local Government Taxes The Lower Local governments including Municipalities, Districts and Counties shall collect the following taxes: Property Taxes Business taxes Market taxes Taxi Parks Trading Licenses Housing Estates From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:44:27 -0400 In as much as Naduli might be right or wrong, but Buganda must and should start to think in the 21st century. Buganda must look into investment, into job creation, into creating tax bases. But you see it is only comical when we complain on what we must be given. That is why I was so amazed that I have spent now almost three years preaching a gospel of stopping graduated tax system in Uganda, for it is surely the most primitive taxation one can look at. But here I was and Buganda has put its foot down for if it does not get taxation rights in Uganda it is going to refuse the federalism. Where are the critical thinkers in Buganda? Is there any nation you know today that Uses graduated tax system for its funds? It is primitive and it must be stopped hence forth. But Buganda is crying for that and today. Then you look on another one, one of the Preachers of Mengo sermon in the forum, last week reminded COO that Buganda was given the Kampala tax base, which included the Indians'buisnesses. Well but today the Indians are no longer in Uganda, if they are there, the tax base is not as it was, Again Buganda stop thinking that you are still in the year 1500 this is 2003 and moving and fast. For you can not help but wonder, suppose NRM today gives Buganda a right to collect tax who are they going to tax? Again my embattled mother? And is Mengo sure that the population will hand over the monies willingly? If so how many Baganda are pumping money to help Mengo today financially? The population cosmic has as well changed, you will be amazed that today there are more non-Baganda in Buganda, you do not believe me? Try visiting Bweyogerere you will think that you are in Mbaale, Are those good citizens going to pay taxes to maintain the Buganda Kingdom? You see a Mugisu might feel very comfortable paying his taxes to NRM government for it is a Uganda government, but will he pay it to run the Buganda government? Thos are very serious questions Mengo must ask her self, but you see we are not supposed to bring up such questions for then, we are anti Buganda and working for Obote who is the main employer of Ugandans these days. And I will say as I did some moths ago, we should look at the assets, why keep the Mengo government in Bulange, a government which does not raise any funds. Squeezed in a national capital. Why don't we move this government with the King to Bamunanika, we go to Baamunanika and buy a whole land for the land is actually
ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Kasangwawo What is normal is any state any country or any organisation, is to start by creating sources of income, after you have those sources then you will know how and if you can/will tax the population. It is very complicated to build a house starting from the roof. Secondly are you sure a Mugisu or even a Muganda will pay his taxes to Mengo, an institution that is (a) corrupt and (b) un elected? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:59 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa, you seem to have specialized in taking statements out of context and trying to use them to satisfy your motives. The facts I gave to COO were related to the issue of the status of Kampala at the time (early 60s) and he hasn't challenged them. I never claimed that the tax base now is the same as it was then. I'm not quite sure where you got that stuff about graduated tax but it seems you are just making it up. I doubt your little brain is able to follow the intricacies of taxation. I shall therefore just restrict myself to giving you a list of the type of taxes federalists are proposing for the different levels of government. As you will see, there is no mention of the graduated tax which you are accusing federalists of proposing. And, yes, under a federal system, whether he feels comfortable or not, a Mugisu living in Bweyogerere will have to pay taxes to the Buganda government for that's where he will be getting his services from. Kasangwawo .. Taxation Federal, State and Local governments shall have the ability to raise taxes to meet their administrative, social, economic, and development responsibilities. Tax collection shall be either shared (concurrent), or Exclusive. Federal Revenue Authorities shall collect federal taxes, while State and Local Revenue Authorities shall collect State and Local taxes. Concurrent Federal and State Taxes The Federal Government and the States shall share the following taxes: a) Personal Income Tax (PIT), Federal Government 35%, States 65% (Germany) b) Corporate Income Tax (CIT), Federal Government, 35%, States 65% (Germany) c) Value Added Tax (VAT), also called the Retail Sales Tax (RST) d) Tobacco Tax e) Gasoline Tax f) Fuel Tax - this and the gasoline tax g) Mining Tax h) Capital gains tax, 50% inclusion rate i) Excise taxes j) Alcohol taxes k) Levies on gambling establishments Exclusive Federal Taxes The federal government shall collect all Equalization taxes and redistribute the revenue among the states according to the formulas set by law. Exclusive Local Government Taxes The Lower Local governments including Municipalities, Districts and Counties shall collect the following taxes: Property Taxes Business taxes Market taxes Taxi Parks Trading Licenses Housing Estates From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:44:27 -0400 In as much as Naduli might be right or wrong, but Buganda must and should start to think in the 21st century. Buganda must look into investment, into job creation, into creating tax bases. But you see it is only comical when we complain on what we must be given. That is why I was so amazed that I have spent now almost three years preaching a gospel of stopping graduated tax system in Uganda, for it is surely the most primitive taxation one can look at. But here I was and Buganda has put its foot down for if it does not get taxation rights in Uganda it is going to refuse the federalism. Where are the critical thinkers in Buganda? Is there any nation you know today that Uses graduated tax system for its funds? It is primitive and it must be stopped hence forth. But Buganda is crying for that and today. Then you look on another one, one of the Preachers of Mengo sermon in the forum, last week reminded COO that Buganda was given the Kampala tax base, which included the Indians'buisnesses. Well but today the Indians are no longer in Uganda, if they are there, the tax base is not as it was, Again Buganda stop thinking that you are still in the year 1500 this is 2003 and moving and fast. For you can not help but wonder, suppose NRM today gives Buganda a right to collect tax who are they going to tax? Again my embattled mother? And is Mengo sure that the population will hand over the monies willingly? If so how many Baganda are pumping money to help Mengo today financially? The population cosmic has as well changed, you will be amazed that today there are more non-Baganda in Buganda, you do not believe me? Try visiting Bweyogerere
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mulindwa you are just going around in circles and making no sense. Uganda today is not the Uganda you knew, God knows when. Your problem is that you have not been in Uganda for quite a while. You are basing your analysis on second hand information from sources that tell you what you want to hear, which is that Uganda is failing. This is why i have always said that you are leaving in deception. Anyway if you have been in Uganda of recent you will know that there is no way that most of what you are prevaricating can occur now. As i have been saying, Ugandans are not the gulible, naive pathetic bunch that you think. A federal system will work perfectly in Uganda. You don't seem to be thinking of Uganda long term. There is a system right now in Uganda whether you like it or not and things are better in Uganda. Take for example freedom of speach, all the sources of the negative postings you put up on this forum are from Ugandan media, or Uganda journalists in Uganda. People in Uganda openly discuss the rights and wrongs of the system without fear. Changes are going on in Uganda. Today we can talk about the excesses of the Presidents children, who could dare do that in Obote and Amins time and still live to see the next day and by the way that is a check. Today Mr. Mulindwa you can catch a plane, fly into Uganda and come out without any harrassements. Uganda does not have any political prisoners. Even Rebels are caught and realesed back to there families. If Kony were to stop fighting tomorrow, Northern Uganda would be the most peaceful place and the reason Kony is failing is because the people of Acholi, Iteso and Langi know that there problems have nothing to do with government. Just to be able to have political dialogue in Uganda on federalism or whatever (whether we support it or not) is a breath of fresh air, this was not possible in Amin or Obote's time, remember it was Obote who first introduced one party rule just after independence and our down hill slide as a nation started, because he established a presidence for dictatorship and authoritarian rule. This President (Museveni) is in the process of restoring us back to full fledged democracy, basically wiping Obote's mess, but it must be done with the full participation of Ugandans and when they are ready. Unlike the UPC mode of operation which is just to shove things down peoples throats. For God sake what does Obote in his eighies have to offer Uganda. Obote coming back into Uganda politics will be a recipy for disaster. It has been said that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, Obote is a dictator he introduced dictatorship to Uganda and thrived on it and now at the age of eighty he wants to come back as a democrat i'm sorry i can never buy that bull. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:54:12 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a very good word, a system. We plug holes in a system. A whole system. On and on. That is where my question comes from, do we have a system in Uganda? Do we have a system in Buganda? Do we have a system in Mengo? If you were given a chance to work in Mengo today where do you start to plug, for you can not even plug, for we plug systems and Mengo has none. Am I talking to my own shadows today? Look here what I see when I look at Uganda today, Uganda is a very corrupt nation, NRM government can not succeed if the population is corrupt as it is, so is a DP government, so is a UPC government, so is Mengo government, so is a Unitary system so is a federalism system. Let me put it to you in a milk bottle. What we need in Uganda is a situation where Iddi Amin can come and form a government and go, where UPC can come and form a government and go, where Museveni and the movement bus can come and go.Where uniterism can come and go, where federalism can come and go. A system which is permanent, a system which stays as governments come and go. That system will state that every single Ugandan has a right to be alive. So if we get Museveni who comes with a planed agenda to decimate Northerners, the system kicks him out and the system stays. And yes you can refuse my analogy, but let me tell you today that one crap leader will look on Uganda's problem and will conclude that Uganda is so fucked up for Baganda are going with waves and they back all Killers we get in Uganda. A decision will be made to kill as many Baganda as possible. What system will protect you? We need a system which creates a national army, an army which stays whether a government is in power or not. But here is the catch, how can you discuss that with Mengo, an enterprise which decides to discuss the future of Uganda with Museveni a man who has even failed to establish a national army? A man who rules Uganda through a Resistance army? A man who pleads for Federalism
ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Movementist as a Katikiro. The man is more powerful than Ssabasajja him self, for he controls the cash flow from NRM to Mengo. Had you been a critical thinker you would have not called that a Federalism discussion, for who ever is in it is just being used by Museveni as he has used all our ancestors. And in the end he will burry all of you. You do not believe me? Ask Tumwebaze. In conclusion, when Museveni goes, so will the fake federalism, so will the fake constitution, so will the Chakamuchaka, so will the RC system, so will The camps in Northern Uganda. Buganda Kingdom? No it will stay for one very simple reason. Kingdoms have nothing to do with the leadership of Uganda, they do their thing there and the government does its thing here. Ssabasajja's personal dealing with a killer government? That is a question to be answered by Ugandans not me. Be well my Movementist friend. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mulindwa you are just going around in circles and making no sense. Uganda today is not the Uganda you knew, God knows when. Your problem is that you have not been in Uganda for quite a while. You are basing your analysis on second hand information from sources that tell you what you want to hear, which is that Uganda is failing. This is why i have always said that you are leaving in deception. Anyway if you have been in Uganda of recent you will know that there is no way that most of what you are prevaricating can occur now. As i have been saying, Ugandans are not the gulible, naive pathetic bunch that you think. A federal system will work perfectly in Uganda. You don't seem to be thinking of Uganda long term. There is a system right now in Uganda whether you like it or not and things are better in Uganda. Take for example freedom of speach, all the sources of the negative postings you put up on this forum are from Ugandan media, or Uganda journalists in Uganda. People in Uganda openly discuss the rights and wrongs of the system without fear. Changes are going on in Uganda. Today we can talk about the excesses of the Presidents children, who could dare do that in Obote and Amins time and still live to see the next day and by the way that is a check. Today Mr. Mulindwa you can catch a plane, fly into Uganda and come out without any harrassements. Uganda does not have any political prisoners. Even Rebels are caught and realesed back to there families. If Kony were to stop fighting tomorrow, Northern Uganda would be the most peaceful place and the reason Kony is failing is because the people of Acholi, Iteso and Langi know that there problems have nothing to do with government. Just to be able to have political dialogue in Uganda on federalism or whatever (whether we support it or not) is a breath of fresh air, this was not possible in Amin or Obote's time, remember it was Obote who first introduced one party rule just after independence and our down hill slide as a nation started, because he established a presidence for dictatorship and authoritarian rule. This President (Museveni) is in the process of restoring us back to full fledged democracy, basically wiping Obote's mess, but it must be done with the full participation of Ugandans and when they are ready. Unlike the UPC mode of operation which is just to shove things down peoples throats. For God sake what does Obote in his eighies have to offer Uganda. Obote coming back into Uganda politics will be a recipy for disaster. It has been said that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, Obote is a dictator he introduced dictatorship to Uganda and thrived on it and now at the age of eighty he wants to come back as a democrat i'm sorry i can never buy that bull. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:54:12 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a very good word, a system. We plug holes in a system. A whole system. On and on. That is where my question comes from, do we have a system in Uganda? Do we have a system in Buganda? Do we have a system in Mengo? If you were given a chance to work in Mengo today where do you start to plug, for you can not even plug, for we plug systems and Mengo has none. Am I talking to my own shadows today? Look here what I see when I look at Uganda today, Uganda is a very corrupt nation, NRM government can not succeed if the population is corrupt as it is, so is a DP government, so is a UPC government, so is Mengo government, so
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mary Nagadya Let us tell the whole story, yes those taxes are paid on all levels in America, but the levels as well have responsibilities they take with those collections. My self as Mulindwa, do not feel comfortable giving Mengo my taxes so that they use it to put medicines in Buganda hospitals, when they can not tell me what happened to the monies that my father had saved in Teefe Bank. And I am a Muganda. So let us not copy things from other nations and take them for granted that they will work in Uganda, and that is the error we have done over and over. Instead of you coming to America and you pick up that statement in abstract of taxes collection, go back on the drawing board and post on Uganda net what the Americans did before they got those responsibility/ies. Americans built a system, and it is a huge and functioning system, they have accountability, you can not loot money from a State Bank and walk free, tell me one person in Buganda who was held accountable for the failure of Teefe Bank? Let me lower the level of my question, do you know him or her? Where is he or her? And that is the same cramped up face you are going to bring in to work on my taxes paid in Buganda? No I am sorry. That is how screwed is the process being thrown into our throats of federalism. For it states, if you give Buganda an autonomy of some kind Buganda will become accountable. That is Bull and you and I know it. Many Ugandans have for example come into these nations and asked for a simple thing credit card, many have asked huge limits on them, Nagadya what percentage of Ugandans still have those credits in your own city? And I do not know where you live. Oh let me give you another one, in all your Ugandan friends in your city, how many do you have that if you need 50,000 dollars in 15 minutes, you can call this midnight? For those are the true Uganda friends in America. You see because we come into these nations and we think that getting a credit card is a right, getting a mortgage is a right, no it is a privilege and you have to work for it, in other words you start by getting a good income, and you do not need a credit card of 20,000 dollars credit limit for the Bank will give it to you, may be you need one of 500 dollars. Accountability. Responsibility. We must work on the basement before we build the house, Ugandans start building by putting in the windows. It is sad that this is the same way you want to build our nation. But here is another good one, you state There is a simple solution if you do not want to pay particular taxes. If you are a Yankee and do not want to pay Texas taxes: just do NOT live in Texas or whatever other state you find offensive. The same applies to other levels of government. That is the very reason why Ugandans will fight this kind of Federalism, Ugandans especially non Baganda have invested more money in Buganda than Baganda, and you want to start now threatening them with these fantasies? Okay we will stay on the side line and watch. And those are the problems you will face over and over for you have refused to do a proper home work, you have refused to discuss serious issues for you have one weapon you are using as Shock and awe You all hate Buganda. Marry Nagaddya it will hunt you at the end of the day. A good example is the native Indians, can you tell me which reserve in America collects taxes and is developing its self using those taxes, yet they are as well in America? That can very easily happen as well in Uganda. Give Ugandans the whole facts don't be selective. All well. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: Mary Nagadya [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:04 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Dear Uganda Netters, Here is why I Haji Nadduli is spot on about the projects issue. In America, taxes are collected at the federal, state, county, and city levels. No one is forced to pay any of the lower taxes (here lower means sub-federal). There is a simple solution if you do not want to pay particular taxes. If you are a Yankee and do not want to pay Texas taxes: just do NOT live in Texas or whatever other state you find offensive. The same applies to other levels of government. Otherwise as long as you enjoy the services provided by a given government, you MUST pay all taxes due to that government. This prevents the practice of mooching, which means to live off other people's sweat like a parasite. There is no free lunch in America. Can we afford to have free luch in Uganda? This is one of the advantages of federalism. It is the surest way of ensuring that every part of Uganda develops. Those who live in Buganda must pay Buganda taxes, but they are welcome to pay whatever amount they want to their home
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
the capital city and Mengo will in the end be the winner, than sticking with it and it is helping Kampala mice to breed. You will one day get a strong mayor for Kampala and he will shut it down, of what value is that to Buganda? Identification crisis? Yes. But uncritical thinking? Very poisonous, just watch as time goes by. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Omar Kezimbira To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 5:48 PM Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Nadduli Defends Land Sale By Richard Komakech THE Luweero district chairman has challenged the Mengo government to devise projects that will help the Baganda utilise their land instead of selling it. Haji Abdul Nadduli, commenting on the ongoing row between the kingdom and Property Masters, a Kampala real estate agency, said the Baganda are trying to fight poverty through selling their land. "We only need to revive our economy and land sale will stop. Property Masters is not the problem, but are just mediators between Baganda who want to sell their land and those who want to buy it," Nadduli said. "Why won't a peasant sell his land if there are people willing to buy it?" he said. Nadduli said the sale was a positive move towards decongesting urban centres of slums. Buganda kingdom's Lukiiko (parliament) last week banned Property Masters from advertising on the kingdom's radio, Central Broadcasting Service (CBS). The Lukiiko said Property Masters' business dealings are a deliberate move to deprive the Baganda of their land. Kabaka Ronald Muwenda Mutebi and his katikkiro Joseph Ssemwogerere have at several occasions attacked Property Masters over their business. "I cannot concur with this argument. However, much as we cry about land sale, we can't do much except finding gainful economic activity for the subjects," Nadduli said. Property Masters' boss, Peter Kasulu, recently cut ties with CBS after Ssemwogerere accused him of masterminding a plan to rip the Baganda of their land. Ends Published on: Monday, 29th September, 2003 Email this article to a friend.-- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search __Do you Yahoo!?The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product searchhttp://shopping.yahoo.comThis service is hosted on the Infocom networkhttp://www.infocom.co.ugWant to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mwaami Musaazi Has it occurred to you that a good number of Ugandans are so oppressed in their own country today that they do not even care whether it is federalism or uniterism or KY or Movement? Has it occurred to you that all they want is a right to sleep in their homes? Secondly I want you to look very carefully at Nagadya's posting, it is the usual complaint. I posted a good number of things we as Baganda must look at if we are to move our Kingdom from the 1500 to 2003. I pointed out the moving of the Buganda leadership to Bamunanika, I mentioned the putting Buganda buildings on rent than using them as slams in the city, I talked Sheraton using Bulange , I talked about the enormous land in Bamunanika where we can expand the kingdom. Did Nagadya comment on any of those? No for not only her self but any other Muganda does not want to talk about them for then Buganda will have started to have critical thinkers. But she went for taxes. Exactly that is what she can throw in the bowl. You see it is very wrong for us to think that this Kingdom will survive for all of us kneel for the king. We must start to think as if we are in 2003 and Nagadya can not. What Nagadya can do is to tell you that in Texas they collect taxes, you are as well giving me an example of Enron so if we have corruption in the Americas why should we bother if it is in Uganda. Well Iddi Amin used to say that why do you complain when one person is shot in Kampala, have you eve been in Detroit? It is interesting that you decided to down play my reasoning using an analogy of an illiterate man. But let me then ask you this only question. Texas collects taxes, but Texas creates jobs, and as state they decide on how much to tax depending on how many jobs created. They use the same numbers to lower or totally remove the same. Can you Mwaami Musaazi and Mukyaala Nagaddya tell me how many of your relatives are employed, thanks to Mengo job creation? Or you are going to tax our containers we sent to Uganda and graduated tax just as all old gover nments have been doing? Or you want us as Ugandans allow you collect our taxes and in the end you will create the jobs? How exactly is this going to work? I have stated before and I will state again, Uganda's problem is neither uniterism nor Federalism, it is neither UPC nor DP, it is neither UPM nor KY. Uganda's problem is LEADERSHIP. We need to create a system where all the above modalities can work. If you remove Amin from power for he puts people on Kalitunsi and shoots them, you end up with the movement which shoots them with out trial. What is better? Stop blaming uniterism and ask your self one question do I have a system in Uganda? That might be a little complicated for you to answer though for you are not a critical thinker. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 2:42 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale But Mulindwa, past errors should not stop us from moving forward. You talk about accountability in the US what about the ERON case and other on going corperate scandals which are unfolded are you suggesting that because of those problems, corperate America should be shut down. All systems be they in Uganda or America are run by human beings and i'm yet to see or hear of a human run system that is 100% perfect. Look i would like to one day go to west nile, Acholi, Langi etc and see developments of the scale or even greater than what is found in Kampala or Buganda and probably even own a home there, i think your plan ties people down into an inferiority complex where non-Baganda feel they can not prosper anywhere else but in Buganda, a good government should encourage development in every part of the country and i think that is what Mary is talking about. Please don't view every proposal different from yours as politically motivated, try to objectively analyze the LONG TERM MERITS to our country. Federalism has long term benefits to Uganda and the people who actually stand to benefit most are non-Baganda. The problem is as i have said before most of the other groups are concentrating on what Buganda is proposing instead of coming up with there own views and ideas and this is where they may lose out, remember also that Federalism is not a winner take all system it is a give and take system. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:15:47 -0400 Mary Nagadya Let us tell the whole story, yes those taxes are paid on all levels in America, but the levels as well have responsibilities they take with those collections. My
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mary Nagadya Very Interesting We need to move forward with federalism. I am sure those who don't want it can always live in place where there is no federalism.(M .N) So now you are stating that we should put Federalism in Uganda and those who do not want it should move out of Uganda? You are way over your self lady it is not that easy if it was, trust me Museveni with Baganda would have killed all Northerners by today. There are some other controlling factors in life and not only your decision which commands. Look here Northerners should teach us a lesson. Obote was overthrown, and NRM in 1984 or so, started a war in the North to decimate the entire population. And do not deny that fact for I was talking with NRM 's very high people. A decision was even made to train every single Southerner in gun fight. And the argument was (Yes it was an argument for I was in Toronto where that decision was made) Let us train every Southerner on how to use a gun for that will be the only way to control and finish the Northerners. In the end after a very long fight, the plan went through, and every single Muganda even Nuns even Civil servants was trained Militarily. I am talking about the birth of Chakamuchaka. Uganda government had a plan of decimating the North, a plan that received a whole support of Buganda. And in the many remarks which were made was this one, Do not worry they will all die of hunger their land is dry Well let us look at it today in 2003 A huge number of Northerners have lost their lives and there is no debate on that. But the government has used scare tactics as well, it has piled them in Camps for years so that they fear and live their land, they have refused, and it has not been easy they have been raped, AIDS is planted, School kids have been captured mutilated and miraculously appear again, Uganda government planed to close them, in fact NRM tried to build a school in Bukalasa Agricultural Collage to pack in all kids from Northern Uganda. It failed and schools are running today in the North In the middle of deaths today 20 years and counting. A war in the North, was even an illegal fact to be posted on Ugandanet. But this war has not only started to be discussed open on Ugandanet, but it is even recognised by the United nations today. And Northerners have achieved all this with out picking up a single gun. And in the end the population of Northern Uganda will win this war. Museveni and the entire Movement will disappear. Even if it will be one person alive, but in the history of man kind, that one person will stand in a public stadium in Northen Uganda ands will declare Northern Uganda a region of peace. And you are telling me that Buganda is going to put federalism in Uganda and those who do not want it should leave? Just how will Buganda achieve that goal? And are you saying that Baganda will then live in all of Uganda when those Ugandan's who do not want federalism have been evacuated? Is this the reason why Museveni is loved in Buganda for he is trying to depopulate Northern Uganda in advance? Please fill me in. Now the rest of your posting is the same as yesterday's Mary if you were born in a Banana plantation in Uganda I do not think that you are giving birth in the same situation today. The shuttle crafts blew up, and let me fill you in, NASA has all flights on stop untill when we find out what is wrong, then and only then will the flights continue, it might be tomorrow or in next ten years, I happen even to have a Canadian friend who was supposed to go in August he is still here. Now with the cars, do you remember your dad's car, the Opel, did not have Air Bags, the Car I drive today has air bags in the front, and in the sides as well and it is a very different car with the one your dad had, and by the way the price is as well higher than 40,000 Dollars, do you know how many Opels your dad would have imported at the same price? All I am telling you is that you must tell Ugandans what is true. Uganda needs leadership not federalism and if you want to put it in Uganda do a ground work. Don't just come to us and tell us that we must dump political partys and go with the movement for it takes every body and all of you are movementists. Baganda failed to be critical thinkers then, for they sung Museveni Waffe They are failing to be critical today, for this is nothing but a ploy by DP losers who want a Buganda vote. Be well Nyabo Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: Mary Nagadya [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:09 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Dear Uganda Netters, Last year thousands of women all over the world died during childbirth. Should we stop reproducing until the process has been proven safe? In the past 15 years
ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mary NagadyaVery Interesting"We need to move forward with federalism. I am sure those who don't want itcan always live in place where there is no federalism.(M .N)So now you are stating that we should put Federalism in Uganda and those whodo not want it should move out of Uganda? You are way over your self lady itis not that easy if it was, trust me Museveni with Baganda would have killedall Northerners by today. There are some other controlling factors in lifeand not only your decision which commands. Look here Northerners shouldteach us a lesson. Obote was overthrown, and NRM in 1984 or so, started awar in the North to decimate the entire population. And do not deny thatfact for I was talking with NRM 's very high people. A decision was evenmade to train every single Southerner in gun fight. And the argument was(Yes it was an argument for I was in Toronto where that decision was made)Let us train every Southerner on how to use a gun for that will be the onlyway to control and finish the Northerners. In the end after a very longfight, the plan went through, and every single Muganda even Nuns even Civilservants was trained Militarily. I am talking about the birth ofChakamuchaka. Uganda government had a plan of decimating the North, a planthat received a whole support of Buganda. And in the many remarks which weremade was this one, "Do not worry they will all die of hunger their land isdry"Well let us look at it today in 2003A huge number of Northerners have lost their lives and there is no debate onthat. But the government has used scare tactics as well, it has piled themin Camps for years so that they fear and live their land, they have refused,and it has not been easy they have been raped, AIDS is planted, School kidshave been captured mutilated and miraculously appear again, Ugandagovernment planed to close them, in fact NRM tried to build a school inBukalasa Agricultural Collage to pack in all kids from Northern Uganda. Itfailed and schools are running today in the North In the middle of deathstoday 20 years and counting. A war in the North, was even an illegal fact tobe posted on Ugandanet. But this war has not only started to be discussedopen on Ugandanet, but it is even recognised by the United nations today.And Northerners have achieved all this with out picking up a single gun. Andin the end the population of Northern Uganda will win this war. Museveni andthe entire Movement will disappear. Even if it will be one person alive, butin the history of man kind, that one person will stand in a public stadiumin Northen Uganda ands will declare Northern Uganda a region of peace.And you are telling me that Buganda is going to put federalism in Uganda andthose who do not want it should leave? Just how will Buganda achieve thatgoal? And are you saying that Baganda will then live in all of Uganda whenthose Ugandan's who do not want federalism have been evacuated? Is this thereason why Museveni is loved in Buganda for he is trying to depopulateNorthern Uganda in advance? Please fill me in.Now the rest of your posting is the same as yesterday's Mary if you wereborn in a Banana plantation in Uganda I do not think that you are givingbirth in the same situation today. The shuttle crafts blew up, and let mefill you in, NASA has all flights on stop untill when we find out what iswrong, then and only then will the flights continue, it might be tomorrow orin next ten years, I happen even to have a Canadian friend who was supposedto go in August he is still here. Now with the cars, do you remember yourdad's car, the Opel, did not have Air Bags, the Car I drive today has airbags in the front, and in the sides as well and it is a very different carwith the one your dad had, and by the way the price is as well higher than40,000 Dollars, do you know how many Opels your dad would have imported atthe same price?All I am telling you is that you must tell Ugandans what is true. Ugandaneeds leadership not federalism and if you want to put it in Uganda do aground work. Don't just come to us and tell us that we must dump politicalpartys and go with the movement for it takes every body and all of you aremovementists. Baganda failed to be critical thinkers then, for they sung"Museveni Waffe" They are failing to be critical today, for this is nothingbut a ploy by DP losers who want a Buganda vote.Be well NyaboEm The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas"avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"- Original Message -From: "Mary Nagadya" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:09 PMSubject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Dear Uganda Netters, Last year thousands of women all over the world died during childbirth. Should we stop reproducing until the process has been proven safe? In
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mr. Mulindwa, firstly my allusion to enron was in answer to your allusion that because of one negative instance a whole system should be discontinued. The American approach to corperate corruption has been to plug the loop holes in the system, not to totally cut it, because they realise that the benefits far outway the negatives unlike your approach of throwing away the baby with the bathwater. Which means by you reasoning anytime there is a negative occurance in our systems we should scrap it and start something else from scratch. Well if we are to go by that reasoning then we will never develope as a country because part of developing is making mistakes and learning from them. This is where Africa has failed woefully as can be seen from your reasoning. Further more whether you like it or not tax collection and allocation must be part of the discussions on federalism and there is nothing wrong with that. Infact this one of the key issues around any system of government (Unitary of Federal) which if not amikably resolved can lead to a lot of problems. You bring up a lot of diversionary issues which are not really important, they only serve to disunite Ugandans (the usual scare tactics...preaching doom doom doom, which never comes). Supposing tomorrow large quantities of oil were found in Acholi land and most of government revenue was obtained from those resources, do you think the people Acholi (and rightly so) will not ask for a re-evaluation of the tax collection/allocation regime of the day? Have you been following the situation in Nigeria and the plight of the Niger/delta people of that region? and all the killing and mayhem that is going on there, well it is all emanating from Tax collection/allocation problems. So let's not decieve ourselves that it is not important. It maybe a difficult one to resolve but resolve it we must. ...and yes the political system we choose determines who we get to leader us. In my opinion you are putting the cart before the horse. You seem to be suggesting that Uganda is condemed to relying on the good will of her leaders instead of us as a nation puting in place a system that ensures that whoever we get as a leader will be forced by the system of the day not go beyond certain boundaries. In other words a good system should come with the appropriate checks and balances that curtail excesses of the leader of the day. This is why developed countries are developed, they are run by systems which are self monitoring and have all the checks needed but even then they have to be refined and perfected all the time so as to prevent and/or fix loop holes, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TOTAL PERFECTION. I have said this and i will say it again, as much as we all sympathize with our brothers and sisters in the north and for that manner all over Uganda, the show must go on, government can't stop working because a part of the country is troubled, why because government is the people of Uganda and i particular hate it when you Mulindwa and Matek cheaply, shamelesly and cruely use the sad situation in the north of Uganda to score dirt cheap political points. Uganda IS NOT AT A STANDSTILL. Let us not give Kony and his thugs more credit then they deserve unless of course you are for them. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:52:35 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi Has it occurred to you that a good number of Ugandans are so oppressed in their own country today that they do not even care whether it is federalism or uniterism or KY or Movement? Has it occurred to you that all they want is a right to sleep in their homes? Secondly I want you to look very carefully at Nagadya's posting, it is the usual complaint. I posted a good number of things we as Baganda must look at if we are to move our Kingdom from the 1500 to 2003. I pointed out the moving of the Buganda leadership to Bamunanika, I mentioned the putting Buganda buildings on rent than using them as slams in the city, I talked Sheraton using Bulange , I talked about the enormous land in Bamunanika where we can expand the kingdom. Did Nagadya comment on any of those? No for not only her self but any other Muganda does not want to talk about them for then Buganda will have started to have critical thinkers. But she went for taxes. Exactly that is what she can throw in the bowl. You see it is very wrong for us to think that this Kingdom will survive for all of us kneel for the king. We must start to think as if we are in 2003 and Nagadya can not. What Nagadya can do is to tell you that in Texas they collect taxes, you are as well giving me an example of Enron so if we have corruption in the Americas why should we bother if it is in Uganda. Well Iddi Amin used to say that why do you complain when one person is shot in Kampala, have you
ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Mwaami Musaazi You are using a very good word, a system. We plug holes in a system. A whole system. On and on. That is where my question comes from, do we have a system in Uganda? Do we have a system in Buganda? Do we have a system in Mengo? If you were given a chance to work in Mengo today where do you start to plug, for you can not even plug, for we plug systems and Mengo has none. Am I talking to my own shadows today? Look here what I see when I look at Uganda today, Uganda is a very corrupt nation, NRM government can not succeed if the population is corrupt as it is, so is a DP government, so is a UPC government, so is Mengo government, so is a Unitary system so is a federalism system. Let me put it to you in a milk bottle. What we need in Uganda is a situation where Iddi Amin can come and form a government and go, where UPC can come and form a government and go, where Museveni and the movement bus can come and go.Where uniterism can come and go, where federalism can come and go. A system which is permanent, a system which stays as governments come and go. That system will state that every single Ugandan has a right to be alive. So if we get Museveni who comes with a planed agenda to decimate Northerners, the system kicks him out and the system stays. And yes you can refuse my analogy, but let me tell you today that one crap leader will look on Uganda's problem and will conclude that Uganda is so fucked up for Baganda are going with waves and they back all Killers we get in Uganda. A decision will be made to kill as many Baganda as possible. What system will protect you? We need a system which creates a national army, an army which stays whether a government is in power or not. But here is the catch, how can you discuss that with Mengo, an enterprise which decides to discuss the future of Uganda with Museveni a man who has even failed to establish a national army? A man who rules Uganda through a Resistance army? A man who pleads for Federalism but can not reinstate the kingdom of his own area Ankole? Would have you taken me serious if I went to Busoga and preached the return of Kingdoms when I have trashed the one of Buganda? It leaves me with only one option, Buganda has a population of un-critical thinkers, or Buganda suports Museveni for he has a plan to make Uganda taken over by Southerners, thus the threats of Nagadya, Love Federalism or you are TOST. Which means that to Buganda Museveni is a tool of conquest, for that is how Buganda developed to where she is. So who cares about the deaths of Northerners when Buganda will expand? Didn't this happen in Buyaga and Bugangazzi? Give me a break Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Mr. Mulindwa, firstly my allusion to enron was in answer to your allusion that because of one negative instance a whole system should be discontinued. The American approach to corperate corruption has been to plug the loop holes in the system, not to totally cut it, because they realise that the benefits far outway the negatives unlike your approach of throwing away the baby with the bathwater. Which means by you reasoning anytime there is a negative occurance in our systems we should scrap it and start something else from scratch. Well if we are to go by that reasoning then we will never develope as a country because part of developing is making mistakes and learning from them. This is where Africa has failed woefully as can be seen from your reasoning. Further more whether you like it or not tax collection and allocation must be part of the discussions on federalism and there is nothing wrong with that. Infact this one of the key issues around any system of government (Unitary of Federal) which if not amikably resolved can lead to a lot of problems. You bring up a lot of diversionary issues which are not really important, they only serve to disunite Ugandans (the usual scare tactics...preaching doom doom doom, which never comes). Supposing tomorrow large quantities of oil were found in Acholi land and most of government revenue was obtained from those resources, do you think the people Acholi (and rightly so) will not ask for a re-evaluation of the tax collection/allocation regime of the day? Have you been following the situation in Nigeria and the plight of the Niger/delta people of that region? and all the killing and mayhem that is going on there, well it is all emanating from Tax collection/allocation problems. So let's not decieve ourselves that it is not important. It maybe a difficult one to resolve but resolve it we must. ...and yes the political system we
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
In as much as Naduli might be right or wrong, but Buganda must and should start to think in the 21st century. Buganda must look into investment, into job creation, into creating tax bases. But you see it is only comical when we complain on what we must be given. That is why I was so amazed that I have spent now almost three years preaching a gospel of stopping graduated tax system in Uganda, for it is surely the most primitive taxation one can look at. But here I was and Buganda has put its foot down for if it does not get taxation rights in Uganda it is going to refuse the federalism. Where are the critical thinkers in Buganda? Is there any nation you know today that Uses graduated tax system for its funds? It is primitive and it must be stopped hence forth. But Buganda is crying for that and today. Then you look on another one, one of the Preachers of Mengo sermon in the forum, last week reminded COO that Buganda was given the Kampala tax base, which included the Indians'buisnesses. Well but today the Indians are no longer in Uganda, if they are there, the tax base is not as it was, Again Buganda stop thinking that you are still in the year 1500 this is 2003 and moving and fast. For you can not help but wonder, suppose NRM today gives Buganda a right to collect tax who are they going to tax? Again my embattled mother? And is Mengo sure that the population will hand over the monies willingly? If so how many Baganda are pumping money to help Mengo today financially? The population cosmic has as well changed, you will be amazed that today there are more non-Baganda in Buganda, you do not believe me? Try visiting Bweyogerere you will think that you are in Mbaale, Are those good citizens going to pay taxes to maintain the Buganda Kingdom? You see a Mugisu might feel very comfortable paying his taxes to NRM government for it is a Uganda government, but will he pay it to run the Buganda government? Thos are very serious questions Mengo must ask her self, but you see we are not supposed to bring up such questions for then, we are anti Buganda and working for Obote who is the main employer of Ugandans these days. And I will say as I did some moths ago, we should look at the assets, why keep the Mengo government in Bulange, a government which does not raise any funds. Squeezed in a national capital. Why don't we move this government with the King to Bamunanika, we go to Baamunanika and buy a whole land for the land is actually available, we take our cultural leader and vacate the Bulange and most of those Kampala buildings. For trust me Sheraton can pay a good some of money to Mengo if it uses that building, and it will renovate it to the standards of the capital city and Mengo will in the end be the winner, than sticking with it and it is helping Kampala mice to breed. You will one day get a strong mayor for Kampala and he will shut it down, of what value is that to Buganda? Identification crisis? Yes. But uncritical thinking? Very poisonous, just watch as time goes by. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Omar Kezimbira To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 5:48 PM Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Nadduli Defends Land Sale By Richard Komakech THE Luweero district chairman has challenged the Mengo government to devise projects that will help the Baganda utilise their land instead of selling it. Haji Abdul Nadduli, commenting on the ongoing row between the kingdom and Property Masters, a Kampala real estate agency, said the Baganda are trying to fight poverty through selling their land. We only need to revive our economy and land sale will stop. Property Masters is not the problem, but are just mediators between Baganda who want to sell their land and those who want to buy it, Nadduli said. Why wont a peasant sell his land if there are people willing to buy it? he said. Nadduli said the sale was a positive move towards decongesting urban centres of slums. Buganda kingdoms Lukiiko (parliament) last week banned Property Masters from advertising on the kingdoms radio, Central Broadcasting Service (CBS). The Lukiiko said Property Masters business dealings are a deliberate move to deprive the Baganda of their land. Kabaka Ronald Muwenda Mutebi and his katikkiro Joseph Ssemwogerere have at several occasions attacked Property Masters over their business. I cannot concur with this argument. However, much as we cry about land sale, we cant do much except finding gainful economic activity for the subjects, Nadduli sa
Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
Dear Uganda Netters, Here is why I Haji Nadduli is spot on about the projects issue. In America, taxes are collected at the federal, state, county, and city levels. No one is forced to pay any of the lower taxes (here lower means sub-federal). There is a simple solution if you do not want to pay particular taxes. If you are a Yankee and do not want to pay Texas taxes: just do NOT live in Texas or whatever other state you find offensive. The same applies to other levels of government. Otherwise as long as you enjoy the services provided by a given government, you MUST pay all taxes due to that government. This prevents the practice of mooching, which means to live off other people's sweat like a parasite. There is no free lunch in America. Can we afford to have free luch in Uganda? This is one of the advantages of federalism. It is the surest way of ensuring that every part of Uganda develops. Those who live in Buganda must pay Buganda taxes, but they are welcome to pay whatever amount they want to their home districts. Mary. --- Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In as much as Naduli might be right or wrong, but Buganda must and should start to think in the 21st century. Buganda must look into investment, into job creation, into creating tax bases. But you see it is only comical when we complain on what we must be given. That is why I was so amazed that I have spent now almost three years preaching a gospel of stopping graduated tax system in Uganda, for it is surely the most primitive taxation one can look at. But here I was and Buganda has put its foot down for if it does not get taxation rights in Uganda it is going to refuse the federalism. Where are the critical thinkers in Buganda? Is there any nation you know today that Uses graduated tax system for its funds? It is primitive and it must be stopped hence forth. But Buganda is crying for that and today. Then you look on another one, one of the Preachers of Mengo sermon in the forum, last week reminded COO that Buganda was given the Kampala tax base, which included the Indians'buisnesses. Well but today the Indians are no longer in Uganda, if they are there, the tax base is not as it was, Again Buganda stop thinking that you are still in the year 1500 this is 2003 and moving and fast. For you can not help but wonder, suppose NRM today gives Buganda a right to collect tax who are they going to tax? Again my embattled mother? And is Mengo sure that the population will hand over the monies willingly? If so how many Baganda are pumping money to help Mengo today financially? The population cosmic has as well changed, you will be amazed that today there are more non-Baganda in Buganda, you do not believe me? Try visiting Bweyogerere you will think that you are in Mbaale, Are those good citizens going to pay taxes to maintain the Buganda Kingdom? You see a Mugisu might feel very comfortable paying his taxes to NRM government for it is a Uganda government, but will he pay it to run the Buganda government? Thos are very serious questions Mengo must ask her self, but you see we are not supposed to bring up such questions for then, we are anti Buganda and working for Obote who is the main employer of Ugandans these days. And I will say as I did some moths ago, we should look at the assets, why keep the Mengo government in Bulange, a government which does not raise any funds. Squeezed in a national capital. Why don't we move this government with the King to Bamunanika, we go to Baamunanika and buy a whole land for the land is actually available, we take our cultural leader and vacate the Bulange and most of those Kampala buildings. For trust me Sheraton can pay a good some of money to Mengo if it uses that building, and it will renovate it to the standards of the capital city and Mengo will in the end be the winner, than sticking with it and it is helping Kampala mice to breed. You will one day get a strong mayor for Kampala and he will shut it down, of what value is that to Buganda? Identification crisis? Yes. But uncritical thinking? Very poisonous, just watch as time goes by. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: Omar Kezimbira To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 5:48 PM Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Nadduli Defends Land Sale By Richard Komakech THE Luweero district chairman has challenged the Mengo government to devise projects that will help the Baganda utilise their land instead of selling it. Haji Abdul Nadduli, commenting on the ongoing row between the kingdom and Property Masters, a Kampala real estate agency, said the Baganda are trying to fight poverty through selling
