Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave.
Melani You make a good point about not personalizing issues.? I have known you to be passionate about many UC issues, but always with well-reasoned and well-intended purposes.? In addition, your passion has always been backed up with action.? I agree that I doubt that you will?benefit personally in any financial manner from your support of the 10 story hotel.? It is always a shame when community members, who share?interests in supporting their neighbors and their community, get so passionate about individual causes that they end up angry at each other. However, outside of the issue of keeping Spruce Hill residents united, is the issue that Karen aptly raises: that if the hotel is allowed to obliterate the zoning standards of three story. 35 feet high? side yards rear yards? adequate parking then how will the neighbors and Spruce Hill justify fighting the same request from other developers all over Spruce Hill?? Certainly it's going to be an enormous issue at the 4224 Baltimore Ave site.? There's going to be some kind of battle at that site in the near future.? The owner, Mr Campanella, is a large developer who does lots of drug store boxes.? He's also done?luxury high rise condos and other large-scale projects.? I believe that he's also been indicted twice for assorted crimes, but I can only find the one on Google (his recent conviction for bribing a public official). I can assure you that Mr Campanella is not taking the 4224 Baltimore bldg down because he wants to put two or three historically sensitive single family homes up. I guess what I'm asking you is:? do you acknowledge Karen's point that the precedent set by the Hotel will make a dangerously strong argument for future developments in the UC area? -Original Message- From: mlam...@aol.com To: kallena...@msn.com; univcity@list.purple.com Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 9:03 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Demolition alert:? 4224 Baltimore Ave. In a message dated 2/10/09 3:02:09 PM, kallena...@msn.com writes: Well, geez, Melani, ya know, I'd really like to get upset about that but I'm going to be busy fighting a 10-story building at 40th and Pine. I can only fight one building desecration at a time. Maybe Tom Lussenhop, Ed?Halligan, Jeff Block, Danny DeRitis, Dave Adelman, Barry Grossbach, Mike Hardy, that blonde woman from 41st and Pine and the gang?at the Spruce Hill Zoning Committee can help you. Well, geez, Melani, ya know, I'd really like to get upset about that but I'm going to be busy fighting a 10-story building at 40th and Pine. I can only fight one building desecration at a time. Maybe Tom Lussenhop, Ed?Halligan, Jeff Block, Danny DeRitis, Dave Adelman, Barry Grossbach, Mike Hardy, that blonde woman from 41st and Pine and the gang?at the Spruce Hill Zoning Committee can help you. Karen, I'm sorry that you feel the need to personalize the things that I write about on the listservs.? What I write is not meant to be about you!? When you respond this way, I'm afraid that it may make you look unprofessional, unfortunately. You are a well-spoken attorney, and when you testify before city officials, you present your viewpoint clearly and compellingly.? I am always glad, when you and I are working together in front of the Zoning Board as representatives of? the CPN zoning committee, that you speak so eloquently on CPN's behalf.? I don't know why you want to write in this other way, to and about me, in front of the listserv audience. The hotel issue is clearly something about which you and I have differing opinions - my focus is on restoring the Italianate building; your concern is with the height issue and the new building's appearance and potential uses.? I think that each of our opinions has merit, and I regret that many folks have become so unpleasant in their passion.? I think that this has led to exaggerations and stretching of the truth, which is regrettable. With your suggestion on Monday that the hotel's most strident and outspoken supporters.just happen to be mostly real estate agents and your comment that All of this is to say that 'the community'?can be hijacked by those with?self interests?who are willing to throw the actual?community under the Penn bus, you imply that I, as a real estate agent and supporter, have something personal to gain by a hotel going into that location.? I don't; to the contrary, it will actually be competition for my Carriage House on 46th St., which I rent out for similar short term stay uses, to the very types of visitors which the Campus Inn expects to attract!? And if the hotel is built, it will not present me with any sales opportunities, and I have never worked as an agent for Tom Lussenhop, David Adelman, or the University of Pennsylvania.? To the contrary, lending my name in support of this project actually has the potential to COST me future real estate business, since those who dis! agree with me are unlikely to call
Re: [UC] Question about PGW and apartments
In a message dated 2/10/2009 7:31:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rogerandvi...@gmail.com writes: My question is: what is the tenant's recourse? They have contacted PGW and so far have been met with indifference at best. The building owner is out of town, and the local agent also seems uninterested to help out. They have pretty strong evidence that their bill is considerably out of line with the other two tenants. I assume that they're paying for their own heat and possibly hot water, otherwise the total of the bill wouldn't be enough to worry about. Do they have access to the meter? If so, they should turn their thermostat town to the lowest setting (or to off if it has such a setting) and turn the temperature setting on the hot water heater as far counterclockwise as it will go (this is the vacation setting). Then they can look at their meter and see whether it's registering any gas flow. There will be a small movement on the lowest dial because of the pilot lights (assuming the ignitions are by pilot light rather than electrical... in the latter case there should be no movement). If in the course of five or so minutes, that lowest dial makes more than, say, two revolutions, someone else's appliances are hooked up to it. This method assumes that they can determine when the other furnaces or water heaters in the building are firing (e.g., they're all in the basement) because it's possible that nobody is using gas at any particular time. If they do get an indication that they're providing gas to somewhere else, they should send a letter with the explanation above and the readings to the Public Utilities Commission with a copy to PGW, Correspondence Dept. Alan Krigman KRF Management 211 S 45th St, Phila PA 19104 215-349-6500, fax 215-349-6502 _www.krf.icodat.com_ (http://www.krf.icodat.com/) al.krig...@krf.icodat.com or krf...@aol.com **The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi0002)
[UC] Re: [UC] Unbelievable, was Demol ition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave.
From Melani Lamond: “And we'd lead much less stressful lives if we could respect one another's' different opinions, honestly fight the good fight, and then shake hands and move forward…” Oh Melani, Melani, Melani. Have you forgotten the preemptive “some people” speech which you have been giving for years in the service of the masters. You testified with that speech to a city commission at the very beginning of the hotel shenanigans too, as you did when Penn tried to stack the deck at the BID presentations. You have repeated it often, on this public listserv. The preemptive “some people” speech: Anyone who asks questions or has insights about the powerfulmaster’s treacherous “vision” is, according to you, a destroyer of all that is good and only wishes to destroy the hard work of good neighbors. You’ve been attacking the motivations and character of others while your masters have abused an incredible power imbalance for years! Abusing power, cheating, lying, ad hominem, deceptive drawings, unannounced public forums, etc, etc. is not the “good fight.” Your private survey for the hand picked BID steering committee was not an honest “good fight.” You have been an active participant of dishonest domination and treachery. Have you once considered how your friends and neighbors feel when you stand with powerful dishonest oppressors and give that some people speech? Or when you attack people on the public listserv while barking cheese heads use strawman, ad hominem, and other fallacious tactics to make it very personal, as Penn’s targets have their characters attacked by the whole gang Remember when you said that silencing my honest reports with the power of Penn censorship “would be heaven.” You and the powerful masters have used intimidation to silence, against the perceived weakness of your neighbors for years! Melani, Penn’s treachery is widely exposed and the manner in which they used dishonest willing pawns such as you, Barry, and Tony is also widely understood. Helpless whining about unfairness to you simply adds hypocrisy to the betrayal of the community. Don’t pretend that the embarrassment that you, Haligan, Barry and, Belynda feel is unfair treatment after “the good fight.” Because your masters are exposed in front of your friends and neighbors, does not mean that you pawns lost ‘the good fight.” Cheating, oppression, lying, propaganda, and abuse of power are not things which one walks away from “shaking hands.” Think of the reaction of the oppressed masses after the French and Russian revolutions! There was not hand shaking. I honestly believe true contrition, a sincere apology, and truth and reconciliationwill get you farther than hypocritical whining as some helpless victim of unfair exposure. But I don’t think that is your intention. You chose your path Melani!! In the game of chess, you are what is known as a sacrificed pawn! I believe in forgiveness. And I have pity on you and the entire gang of Penn pawns. But I certainly do not believe that any of you should be permitted to crawl under some rocks only to reemerge with new furylater. I heard this “good fight” and “let’s look to the future” nonsense from FOCP years ago. Did FOCP/SHCA/UCHS reform and look to the future? Hahahahahaha Shame on you! Glenn An honest neighbor with principles and integrity -Original Message- From: mlam...@aol.com Sent: Feb 11, 2009 12:03 AM To: kallena...@msn.com, univcity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave. In a message dated 2/10/09 3:02:09 PM, kallena...@msn.com writes: Well, geez, Melani, ya know, I'd really like to get upset about that but I'm going to be busy fighting a 10-story building at 40th and Pine. I can only fight one building desecration at a time. Maybe Tom Lussenhop, EdHalligan, Jeff Block, "Danny" DeRitis, Dave Adelman, Barry Grossbach, Mike Hardy, that blonde woman from 41st and Pine and the gangat the Spruce Hill Zoning Committee can help you.Karen, I'm sorry that you feel the need to personalize the things that I write about on the listservs. What I write is not meant to be about you! When you respond this way, I'm afraid that it may make you look unprofessional, unfortunately. You are a well-spoken attorney, and when you testify before city officials, you present your viewpoint clearly and compellingly. I am always glad, when you and I are working together in front of the Zoning Board as representatives of the CPN zoning committee, that you speak so eloquently on CPN's behalf. I don't know why you want to write in this other way, to and about me, in front of the listserv audience.The hotel issue is clearly something about which you and I have differing opinions - my focus is on restoring the Italianate building; your concern is with the height issue and the new building's appearance and potential uses. I think that each of our opinions has merit, and I regret that many folks have become so unpleasant in their passion.
Re: [UC] Question about PGW and apartments
Call the phone number at the bottom of your bill and put your account into dispute. The customer service people are very nice and professional but can't answer any questions about why your bill is so much bigger. The 4600 block of Osage has experienced what appears to be totally out-of-whack Gas Bills for the period dec15-jan15. J krf...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/10/2009 7:31:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rogerandvi...@gmail.com writes: My question is: what is the tenant's recourse? They have contacted PGW and so far have been met with indifference at best. The building owner is out of town, and the local agent also seems uninterested to help out. They have pretty strong evidence that their bill is considerably out of line with the other two tenants. I assume that they're paying for their own heat and possibly hot water, otherwise the total of the bill wouldn't be enough to worry about. Do they have access to the meter? If so, they should turn their thermostat town to the lowest setting (or to off if it has such a setting) and turn the temperature setting on the hot water heater as far counterclockwise as it will go (this is the vacation setting). Then they can look at their meter and see whether it's registering any gas flow. There will be a small movement on the lowest dial because of the pilot lights (assuming the ignitions are by pilot light rather than electrical... in the latter case there should be no movement). If in the course of five or so minutes, that lowest dial makes more than, say, two revolutions, someone else's appliances are hooked up to it. This method assumes that they can determine when the other furnaces or water heaters in the building are firing (e.g., they're all in the basement) because it's possible that nobody is using gas at any particular time. If they do get an indication that they're providing gas to somewhere else, they should send a letter with the explanation above and the readings to the Public Utilities Commission with a copy to PGW, Correspondence Dept. Alan Krigman KRF Management 211 S 45th St, Phila PA 19104 215-349-6500, fax 215-349-6502 www.krf.icodat.com http://www.krf.icodat.com/ al.krig...@krf.icodat.com or krf...@aol.com The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. *AOL Music takes you there http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi0002*. begin:vcard fn:Julia Crane n:Crane;Julia org:;Populations Studies Center adr;dom:Room 233;;3718 Locust Walk;Philadelphia;PA;19104 email;internet:cr...@pop.upenn.edu title:Associate Director for Administration tel;work:215-573-1369 version:2.1 end:vcard
RE: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave.
My only reply is this: Responding that way would only make me look unprofessional if I were to walk into court or the Zoning Board hearings and say that. But I'm not stating a professional position in a professional setting; I'm stating my personal opinion in a public forum. When speaking on this list, I retain the right to speak as myself with my own opinions and voice. For whatever reason, you manage to drag the fact that I'm a lawyer into virtually every discussion that involves me, whether on the listserv or in CPN matters. For the record: I know that I'm a lawyer; I don't have to be reminded of it 24/7. Believe it or not, I do not feel the need to throw the fact that I'm a lawyer into everyone's face. That is my job, not my life. It's what I do; not what I am. And I will choose when it's appropriate to disclose that fact. It's something that I turn on when I'm at work, and turn off the rest of the time. I have never tried to use my job or JD degree as a bludgeon to silence or intimidate others (well, YOU don't know what YOU'RE talking about because I'M a LAWYER, and I KNOW...). I have never used that to give my opinions give any added weight, because I believe that I can defend my opinions on their own merits without having to inject inflated ego into the mix. Apart from those who may know me personally, I'm sure there are a lot of listserv readers who may not even know that I'm a lawyer were it not for you telling them, because I rarely have reason to mention it. In fact, when I testified at the myriad Campus Inn hearings, I never did so as an attorney, or tried to claim some professional aura for my private opinions. I made it clear that I did not live in Spruce Hill, and that I was testifying as a resident of University City who was concerned about the broader implications if that project was allowed to go forward. Broader implications such as what may be on the horizon at 43rd and Baltimore. Once opened, the Pandora's box Al Krigman referred to can never be closed. From: mlam...@aol.comdate: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:03:56 -0500Subject: Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave.To: kallena...@msn.com; univc...@list.purple.comin a message dated 2/10/09 3:02:09 PM, kallena...@msn.com writes: Well, geez, Melani, ya know, I'd really like to get upset about that but I'm going to be busy fighting a 10-story building at 40th and Pine. I can only fight one building desecration at a time. Maybe Tom Lussenhop, Ed Halligan, Jeff Block, Danny DeRitis, Dave Adelman, Barry Grossbach, Mike Hardy, that blonde woman from 41st and Pine and the gang at the Spruce Hill Zoning Committee can help you.Karen, I'm sorry that you feel the need to personalize the things that I write about on the listservs. What I write is not meant to be about you! When you respond this way, I'm afraid that it may make you look unprofessional, unfortunately. You are a well-spoken attorney, and when you testify before city officials, you present your viewpoint clearly and compellingly. I am always glad, when you and I are working together in front of the Zoning Board as representatives of the CPN zoning committee, that you speak so eloquently on CPN's behalf. I don't know why you want to write in this other way, to and about me, in front of the listserv audience.The hotel issue is clearly something about which you and I have differing opinions - my focus is on restoring the Italianate building; your concern is with the height issue and the new building's appearance and potential uses. I think that each of our opinions has merit, and I regret that many folks have become so unpleasant in their passion. I think that this has led to exaggerations and stretching of the truth, which is regrettable. With your suggestion on Monday that the hotel's most strident and outspoken supporters.just happen to be mostly real estate agents and your comment that All of this is to say that 'the community' can be hijacked by those with self interests who are willing to throw the actual community under the Penn bus, you imply that I, as a real estate agent and supporter, have something personal to gain by a hotel going into that location. I don't; to the contrary, it will actually be competition for my Carriage House on 46th St., which I rent out for similar short term stay uses, to the very types of visitors which the Campus Inn expects to attract! And if the hotel is built, it will not present me with any sales opportunities, and I have never worked as an agent for Tom Lussenhop, David Adelman, or the University of Pennsylvania. To the contrary, lending my name in support of this project actually has the potential to COST me future real estate business, since those who disagree with me are unlikely to call me when they want to buy or sell houses. What do you see as my self interest? As a pragmatic preservationist, I merely want to see the old house restored!You,
Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimo re Ave - Guy Laren's comparison to Campu s Inn project
In a message dated 2/11/09 12:16:43 PM, mwsny...@gmail.com writes: Does anyone have a link to photos that show the Italianate building in its former glory? To me, and presumably to other people, it's hard to understand why that building at 40th and Pine is worth saving. I'm certainly not opposed to historic preservation and I'm sure the building has some merit I can't see in its current state. But looking at it as it is today, and especially considering its awful history, it's hard for me to grasp why it should be saved, especially when saving it apparently means having to take on the additional burden of a hotel at that site. I do understand that legally the building can't be torn down, due to its historic status. --Matthew Here's the link to the architects' presentation. Go to slides 56 for old views. (Note the woman in the fur coat in slide 6, and the old cars!): http://www.campusinnuc.com/ I think that the slide presentation shown here wasn't updated when changes were made at the request of the PHC, so I don't think that the new building shown is the final rendition. Another slide you might want to look at is the shadow study - this was a question also raised by opponents, and you can see the results of the study in one of the slides. Melani Melani Lamond, Associate Broker Urban Bye, Realtor PA License Number AB048377L 3529 Lancaster Ave., Philadelphia, PA 19104 cell phone 215-356-7266 - office phone 215-222-4800 #113 ** The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi0002)
[UC] Truth and reconciliation
“If anyone has positive suggestions, I'd love to hear them! Melani Lamond” Melani, UCD cheerleaders, and Penn pawns, I would make the positive suggestion that you consider the core concepts of truth and justice, and “come clean.” Forgiveness is very possible. You may well be very cynical after years of believing in ideologies which are failing as fast or faster than the economy built upon these. As oppressed people have shown time and again, hope and the possibility for change can bring enormous strength to humans. So can forgiveness. For you, you may be pleasantly surprised at your neighbors’ abilities to forgive. But false apologies, more personal maneuvers, or ridiculous justifications will not lead to reconciliation. Let me be perfectly clear about that point! Only, truth and justice leads to reconciliation. Have you considered the enormous benefit to the community of telling the truth??? It may indeed bring you temporary embarrassment. But it could also be an important, even vital, link to bringing justice, healing, and reconciliation in a neighborhood torn apart by the forces of Penn's neo-colonialism. Melani, consider telling the truth about your anointing to the BID steering committee. Tell us how the colonial masters operated to plant divisiveness in the community to oppress with a divide and conquer master plan. There are FOCP leaders who could also come clean about the hand picked steering community to take Clark Park, and could reveal the truth of the propaganda campaign against our neighbors. Melani, I stand on one knee before you. Help bring truth and reconciliation to the neighborhood by telling the truth about the attack on our community! I can’t promise the forgiveness of others or how long it would take for community members to have trust in you, if ever in the future. But, I strongly believe that it is the best hope for you and the other Penn pawns. I can promise you that if you come clean with this community, I will do my very best to ask our neighbors to forgive transgressions against us. We all make mistakes and sometimes serious ones. But, it is what we do with those mistakes that defines us, and makes truth and reconciliation possible. All the best, Glenn You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] demolition at 4224-4226 Baltimore Avenue
When I read that the demolition permit had a June, 2008 date crossed out and handwritten in was a January, 2009 date, and, in addition, that the original LI supervisor's name (Gallagher from the Western District) had also been crossed out and replaced with the name Perry Cocco, who works out of the 11th and Wharton office of LI, I smelled a rat and decided to do a little googling. I think that the neighborhood now has good reason to fear what will be proposed for that site when the historically-contributing building there is demolished. Just a few facts to ponder: -The site was bought by Thylen Associates, a New York-based developer in Jan., 2008 for $3,500,000. Can you imagine what kind of a project they need to assure them of a decent return on an investment of this magnitude? -Thylan, Campenella and a man named Sean D. McDougall jointly developed a site at 13th and Race called the Lithograph Lofts, the renovation of an old factory structure into residences. -Sean McDougall is the owner of a company called Minsec Corrections Corp., based in Wallingford. Their business is in what they call Community Corrections Facilities, which are essentially privately-run jails located in , guess what?, communities! They also run drug re-hab facilities. Their web site (_www.minsec.com_ (http://www.minsec.com) ) explains how their expertise lies in locating and purchasing sites and building these correctional facilities in co-operation with local government. (Are we starting to have any flashbacks yet to the deal Campenella worked out with Jannie Blackwell over the proposed shelter at 45th and Chestnut St., a deal that was astonishing in its attempt to circumvent city laws, but only defeated because of local opposition.) The Minsec website also touts Mr. McDougall as the head of a multi-million dollar real estate enterprise. -Campenella has a drug distribution conviction from 1993 ( a youthful indiscretion no doubt - he was only in his forties at the time) and most recently (2007) was charged with paying a $20,000 bribe to a city tax assessor to lower the assessments on 4 different properties he owns by millions of dollars. The news accounts suggest that he pled guilty to the charges but I haven't been able to confirm that. He appears to be a free man, so I guess he didn't get the full 5 years that was the maximum for this crime of corrupting a public official. It seems pretty clear to me that the current owners of 4224 Baltimore had requested a permit to demolish last year with the expectation that the hotel project was close to a done deal, that the precedent for large non-residential projects had been established and that their project would thus be likely to win approval. Of course, the tough fight against the hotel upset their timetable and they had to get a new permit, one starting in January this year. I think one would have to be awfully naive not to suspect that the fix is probably in on the hotel project and that these guys have gotten the word. They are now set to proceed on whatever they have planned for two nineteenth-century structures and one of the last plots of open land in our community. Mary **The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi0002)
Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave - Guy Laren's comparison to Campus Inn project
mlam...@aol.com wrote: Alas, the proposed inn's location at 40th Pine is not in a local historic district! If it were, then the developers would not be able to tear it down, AND they would not be able to build a tall building, and perhaps more UC neighbors would be satisfied! the reason the developer can't tear down the mansion is because it's individually designated, that's what lussenhop originally wanted to rescind when he went before the phc back in spring 2007. but the phc denied its being delisted in july 2007: http://tinyurl.com/2zmxx9 your argument for supporting historic districts is misplaced here. in fact, your arguing for a 10-story hotel at 40th and pine is AGAINST everything that historic districts are designed to protect (streetscapes, fabric, ensembles, etc.) the question has always been a zoning question, and it happens to involve a property that penn purchased, knowing that it was a designated property. zoning is a tool to protect residential areas from unwanted commercial (or other) development; that is what's being defended here -- and what you are missing, because you keep arguing that the only way to defend it is with an historic district. all this was pointed out to you earlier, onlist, in oct 2007, and I'm surprised you're still trying to make this argument: http://www.mail-archive.com/univcity@list.purple.com/msg20121.html .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Balt imore Ave - Guy Laren's comparison to Campu s Inn project
In a message dated 2/11/09 1:57:35 PM, laserb...@speedymail.org writes: the reason the developer can't tear down the mansion is because it's individually designated, that's what lussenhop originally wanted to rescind when he went before the phc back in spring 2007. but the phc denied its being delisted in july 2007: http://tinyurl.com/2zmxx9 Yes, I know that the BUILDING is designated, but the designation protects only the BUILDING itself - not the neighbors' desire not to have to view additional buildings on the property. The neighbors have argued that there is a de facto district, which would protect them, but the city departments disagree. I am, I repeat, NOT arguing in favor of 10-story buildings - but rather stating that the inn development will allow for the restoration cost. I would not support this project if the original Italianate structure were going to be demolished. your argument for supporting historic districts is misplaced here. in fact, your arguing for a 10-story hotel at 40th and pine is AGAINST everything that historic districts are designed to protect (streetscapes, fabric, ensembles, etc.) A new 10-story hotel would be out of place in an historic district - but we aren't likely to get a local historic district, so I hope to see us do the best we can with the lesser protection we have for this one old building - the individual designation and the PHC encouraging the development of a tall modern building added to the lot. The inn's opponents aren't trying to protect the Italianate building at all; one of them told me at a hearing that they would support asking the PHC to allow this one to be torn down, now.. So under the developers' proposal, we have a restored historic building plus a 10-story new building. Under the opponents' proposed compromise, we have no old building at all. Who is less supportive of historic properties? the question has always been a zoning question, and it happens to involve a property that penn purchased, knowing that it was a designated property. Your memory is selective here; Penn officials have said that they did not know that it was designated. The listserv was skeptical of this when the issue first came up, and I wrote, back then, that an historic designation did not appear on a title report or on an LI cert. These are documents a buyer relies upon to tell him/her about restrictions on the property being purchased. (The city has since made a change: local designation DOES now appear on the L I cert! So the city seems to have realized that they ought to be alerting buyers about this restriction - but back when this property was sold, they did not alert buyers.) Further, the condition of the building would not have suggested to a buyer that they ought to search further records to see if it was on the local register. While I can be as skeptical as the next person about Penn, in this case, the records they'd have looked at would not have given them the information you are stating, as fact, that they knew. What evidence do you have that they knew? zoning is a tool to protect residential areas from unwanted commercial (or other) development; that is what's being defended here -- and what you are missing, because you keep arguing that the only way to defend it is with an historic district. I'm not missing it. The conclusion of the zoning hearing process will come next for this property. But as I wrote before, Ocean City has restrictions too (on height, in their case), but if developers there tear down all the old places and put up new plastic ones, albeit shorter, then is that really satisfactory for a neighborhood? Wouldn't it be better to have a way to prevent tear downs (a local historic district)? What if, in University City, the buyer of one half of a twin house wants to tear his purchase down and build new? There is nothing to prevent that, without an historic district. How would you feel, if you lived in the other half? all this was pointed out to you earlier, onlist, in oct 2007, and I'm surprised you're still trying to make this argument: http://www.mail-archive.com/univcity@list.purple.com/msg20121.html I've read the reference you cite, and I think we are both still making the same arguments! And as I wrote earlier today, in the 1920s, large tall, non-owner-occupied apartment buildings were built in UC locations which have remained extremely popular to this day; the tall buildings didn't hurt the value of the shorter ones. You haven't convinced me, and I haven't convinced you. I would still like to see this Italianate house restored in the only way possible at this time, since the area around it is not protected; and the rest of our historic buildings protected by a district to avoid future losses and provide more peace of mind for the folks who want more restrictions - as you mention,
Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Balt imore Ave - Guy Laren's comparison to Ca...
In a message dated 2/11/2009 3:43:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mlam...@aol.com writes: Yes, I know C'mon Melanie. Don't you know that when you're digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole, the first rule to follow is to stop shoveling? Remember, you first read it here on the popu-list Alan Krigman **The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi0002)
[UC] glass bricks
There are glass bricks available on the porch at 923 south 48 street and a bar stool on the porch at 921. Enjoy. Muriel
RE: [UC] demolition at 4224-4226 Baltimore Avenue
RE: When I read that the demolition permit had a June, 2008 date crossed out and handwritten in was a January, 2009 date[...]. It seems pretty clear to me that the current owners of 4224 Baltimore had requested a permit to demolish last year with the expectation that the hotel project was close to a done deal, that the precedent for large non-residential projects had been established and that their project would thus be likely to win approval. Of course, the tough fight against the hotel upset their timetable and they had to get a new permit, one starting in January this year. I think one would have to be awfully naive not to suspect that the fix is probably in on the hotel project and that these guys have gotten the word. They are now set to proceed on whatever they have planned for two nineteenth-century structures and one of the last plots of open land in our community. Mary, Thanks for this report. This is the very type of thing I warned against my editorial letter in the Review back in October, 2007: bad precedent. Once one 10 story building can be built, there is no credible justification to stop another, and another, and yet another. And I agree with you that it seems that the developer was waiting for the Campus Inn to be resolved so that whatever it is that he has planned could ride in on those coattails, and any resistance could be swatted away by pointing to that precedent. As far as the suspicion regarding a fix being in, consider this from Inga Saffron of the Inquirer:http://www.hotel-online.com/News/2009_Feb_06/k.PPR.1233945542.html On Nov. 14, the commission -- now filled with Nutter's appointees -- made an attempt to reverse course, voting 7-3 to reject the Campus Inn tower. Almost immediately, commission chairman Sam Sherman was summoned to the office of Deputy Mayor Andrew Altman. The following month, a slightly revised version of the project was resoundingly approved, 8-2. Altman says he never asked Sherman to change the decision. I just wanted to understand why the commission voted the way it did, he explains. Sherman concurs, and says Altman was concerned because the Planning Commission had already given Campus Inn its blessing. Still, according to the Preservation Alliance's John Gallery, such an about-face is highly unusual. In my six years of observing the commission, I've never seen a reversal like this, he says. In our view, there were no material changes to the design to justify a second hearing. Regarding the defense that there are other 10 story buildings in UC: yes there are. The tall buildings on Penn's campus are in an area zoned for institutional uses. Garden Court, the Fairfax, and Hamilton Court at 39th and Chestnut were all built prior to the existing zoning regulations. Each building was archetecturally designed to be tall, and was intended to sit on a large lot with an area proportional to its height. None of these buildings were built as modern, out-of-character slabs, crammed as an afterthought into the side yards of much-older existing buildings. Garden Court has a garage; the Fairfax and Hamilton Court were built before the proliferation of cars.As far as the claim that there is nothing else Penn could do with this building, it stretches credulity to compare Penn with an individual property owner or investor who may have limited resources and who must make a profit to stay afloat. Even accepting the claim that Penn is in the education business, it can still raise money from its vast pool of donors. They recently raised money in the billions of dollars for its endowment fund, so I find it hard to believe that they could not have designated the building for an academic use and raised whatever money was needed from that pool of donors. In fact, Penn plans to build a three story structure around the corner on the vacant lot next to Allegra Pizza at 40th and Spruce. Why can't the Campus Inn be built on the vacant lot and 40th and Pine be refurbished for the other facility? As far as not knowing the site was historically designated: Penn has been in the business of buying up land surrounding its campus ever since it moved to West Philadelphia from 9th and Chestnut in 1873, so I tend to think that they've gotten to be pretty good at it by now. Go to Penn's online archives or go to Phillyhistory.org and type in University City to see the neighborhood as it was prior to the 1960s. It was primarily residential, with commercial corridors on Market, Chestnut, and Walnut Streets, and Woodland Avenue (now known on campus as Woodland Walk). It has been Penn's mission to acquire (whether by purchase or by eminent domain) the land surrounding its campus so that it could expand. It has its own Penn Real Estate entity whose job it is to deal with land issues. They know that there is a University City Historical Society that they could consult for research purposes. Penn TEACHES the top legal and business
Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave - Guy Laren's comparison to Campus Inn project
Melani, Guy, you ask a good question here, but I don't see why you attribute it to Karen. Her disparaging email to me, cc'd to the list, didn't comment on precedent; it was personal. It seemed pretty apparent to me that Karen was making the point that the supporters of the hotel opened the door to the precedent that could lead to another high rise on Campanella¹s property, which precedent is the reason many of us oppose the hotel. If a small, vocal group of our UC neighbors continues to reject the restrictions which a local HD would impose, then, because of the increasing popularity of our neighborhood, we are probably beginning an era of tear-downs and requests for changes in height. This is a false dichotomy and red herring. There¹s absolutely no reason that a historic district is the only way to maintain height restrictions. It¹s not an either or choice. Kimm On 2/11/09 11:57 AM, mlam...@aol.com mlam...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/11/09 4:30:50 AM, lom...@aol.com writes: Melani You make a good point about not personalizing issues. I have known you to be passionate about many UC issues, but always with well-reasoned and well-intended purposes. In addition, your passion has always been backed up with action. I agree that I doubt that you will benefit personally in any financial manner from your support of the 10 story hotel. It is always a shame when community members, who share interests in supporting their neighbors and their community, get so passionate about individual causes that they end up angry at each other. However, outside of the issue of keeping Spruce Hill residents united, is the issue that Karen aptly raises: that if the hotel is allowed to obliterate the zoning standards of three story. 35 feet high side yards rear yards adequate parking then how will the neighbors and Spruce Hill justify fighting the same request from other developers all over Spruce Hill? Certainly it's going to be an enormous issue at the 4224 Baltimore Ave site. There's going to be some kind of battle at that site in the near future. The owner, Mr Campanella, is a large developer who does lots of drug store boxes. He's also done luxury high rise condos and other large-scale projects. I believe that he's also been indicted twice for assorted crimes, but I can only find the one on Google (his recent conviction for bribing a public official). I can assure you that Mr Campanella is not taking the 4224 Baltimore bldg down because he wants to put two or three historically sensitive single family homes up. I guess what I'm asking you is: do you acknowledge Karen's point that the precedent set by the Hotel will make a dangerously strong argument for future developments in the UC area? Guy, you ask a good question here, but I don't see why you attribute it to Karen. Her disparaging email to me, cc'd to the list, didn't comment on precedent; it was personal. My response was that I am saddened by her resort to personal attacks, when her views could better be substantiated with reasoned argument - as you've made here. It is a pleasant change to read a message on this listserv about the proposed Campus Inn from someone who states his thoughts reasonably, without malice or exaggerated accusations. Thank you for setting a positive tone. In answer to your question, first I'll repeat that I would like to see the Italianate building on Pine Street saved and restored. That's my motivation; it is not exactly that I can't wait to see a 10-story building next door - but I don't oppose it, either, because the new building is the trade-off which will provide funds for the old building's restoration. I see this as a pragmatic solution. I believe that the precedent for taller buildings in residential areas was set years ago, when the 6-story Garden Court apartments (1922; now condos, no parking) and the 13-story Garden Court Plaza (1926-1930, with parking) were built adjacent to single homes; and when the 10-story Fairfax Apartments building (1926; no parking) was built right up against the backs of the row houses on St. Mark's Square, without setbacks from the St. Mark's rear yards. In each of these cases, the taller buildings seem not to have had a negative impact on their residential settings; for these locations are about the most desirable and expensive for University City homeowners today! Drive north on 43rd or 46th St. at this time of year, when there are no leaves on the trees - these tall buildings will pop out at you above the house rooftops, if you are looking for them - but if you're walking by and not purposely looking, they blend into the landscape we are familiar with in our neighborhood. I think that a taller building at 40th Pine won't be any more intrusive, will soon be just as familiar. Alas, the proposed inn's location at 40th Pine is not in a local historic district! If it
Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave.
mlam...@aol.com wrote: Our community would be so much better off if we could look more closely at the merit of the issues before us, rather than only at the names of the persons supporting or opposing them. And we'd lead much less stressful lives if we could respect one another's' different opinions, honestly fight the good fight, and then shake hands and move forward without being vocal, angry enemies for life Let us try to work in thoughtful, professional ways, even if we have different opinions. melani, would you acknowledge that you respect the overwhelming opinion of so many of your neighbors that was demonstrated at the 13 feb 2007 meeting? where they gave their opinions, backed by the merits of their good reason, against the hotel? have you fought the 'good fight' and supported your neighbors before any of the city agencies that have ruled on this hotel (phc, pcpc, the architect committee)? have you understood why this is a zoning issue, and why it was important to uphold zoning as a way to protect both the mansion and the neighborhood -- as well as future properties throughout the neighborhood, whether they're historic or not? the time to see this issue as more than just personal passed long ago. the time to come together and support and respect those with different opinions is still ahead of you, at the upcoming zba hearing. The second half of the ZBA hearing on the Campus Inn is scheduled for Feb 19 at 2:00 pm, 1515 Arch St, 18th Floor. .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] History of neighborhood groups (Was: Re: Penn-gemony receives its next Mayor)
I'm sure you're right, Wilma. People can be unkind and unfair and cruel to each other in any volunteer association. Social slights like these are always saddening. One always hopes one's group can engage in it as little as possible, but human nature comes with limits. I want to make the record clear for UC-list's sake, that, after reflection, nobody on UC-list can recall a single instance in which a Friends of... group was spun off from a community association in University City, powerful or otherwise, to achieve any aim, nefarious or otherwise. Most Friends of... groups are created to provide single-interest community backing to public facilities that could benefit from additional input and assistance. Thus we have, in UC alone, Friends of Malcolm X Park and Friends of the Walnut Street West Library. They are, of course, widespread elsewhere and most public institutions welcome and foster them. I don't believe Calvary, the Firehouse Market or University City District ever had a Friends of group attached to them. They are really different community institutions, for several different reasons, and often aren't similar to each other either. Community associations are in a separate class of their own, with special features. Friends of 40th St. is kind of platypus, with features taken from many other classes. It too is not without precedents elsewhere, though. -- Tony West Still, there are community members who have joined the established UC community organizations over the years, who have pledged many hours/years and personal funds, and even slightly neglected their own families and relationships to support neighborhood issues their very credible community leaders charged them to do. The point is now many of those who have served faithfully are now without the powerful UC Community organizations backed Friends to advocate for them. The hurting thing is the opposing community members to this hotel project are desperately trying to uphold the original vision of the established UC leaders and community organizations they represent. Now they find themselves at cross purposes. Any human, even if they do not agree, should understand their sense of betrayal. - W. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave.
Ray asks of Melani that she respect the overwhelming opinion of one meeting he feels his side got good turnout at. He does not ask her to respect the opinion of any meeting he feels his side got poor turnout at. His side's meeting constitutes your neighbors. Melani's side's meeting constitutes not your neighbors. Healthy political rhetoric, to which Melani has healthy comebacks. But that's why ZBA, or any other public body, exists: to sort through conflicting claims when a community is split politically. In the end, it won't be anybody on UC-list that calls this shot. -- Tony West melani, would you acknowledge that you respect the overwhelming opinion of so many of your neighbors that was demonstrated at the 13 feb 2007 meeting? where they gave their opinions, backed by the merits of their good reason, against the hotel? The second half of the ZBA hearing on the Campus Inn is scheduled for Feb 19 at 2:00 pm, 1515 Arch St, 18th Floor. .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Demolition alert: 4224 Baltimore Ave - Guy Laren's comparison to Campus Inn project
That is the $64 question, isn't it? There are similarities but also differences. A lot of folks will be taking a close look at this one, won't they? -- Tony West Kimm Tynan wrote: It seemed pretty apparent to me that Karen was making the point that the supporters of the hotel opened the door to the precedent that could lead to another high rise on Campanella’s property, which precedent is the reason many of us oppose the hotel. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] History of neighborhood groups (Was: Re: Penn-gemony receives its next Mayor)
Tony, I want to make the record clear for UC-list's sake, that, after reflection, nobody on UC-list can recall a single instance in which a Friends of... group was spun off from a community association in University City, powerful or otherwise, to achieve any aim, nefarious or otherwise. That's not true. The Friends of Calvary is/was a spinoff or subgroup of the UCHS. I believe, but could be wrong, that the Friends of the Woodlands is/was as well. I don't believe Calvary . . . ever had a Friends of group attached to them. See above. Kimm On 2/11/09 10:32 PM, Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net wrote: I'm sure you're right, Wilma. People can be unkind and unfair and cruel to each other in any volunteer association. Social slights like these are always saddening. One always hopes one's group can engage in it as little as possible, but human nature comes with limits. I want to make the record clear for UC-list's sake, that, after reflection, nobody on UC-list can recall a single instance in which a Friends of... group was spun off from a community association in University City, powerful or otherwise, to achieve any aim, nefarious or otherwise. Most Friends of... groups are created to provide single-interest community backing to public facilities that could benefit from additional input and assistance. Thus we have, in UC alone, Friends of Malcolm X Park and Friends of the Walnut Street West Library. They are, of course, widespread elsewhere and most public institutions welcome and foster them. I don't believe Calvary, the Firehouse Market or University City District ever had a Friends of group attached to them. They are really different community institutions, for several different reasons, and often aren't similar to each other either. Community associations are in a separate class of their own, with special features. Friends of 40th St. is kind of platypus, with features taken from many other classes. It too is not without precedents elsewhere, though. -- Tony West Still, there are community members who have joined the established UC community organizations over the years, who have pledged many hours/years and personal funds, and even slightly neglected their own families and relationships to support neighborhood issues their very credible community leaders charged them to do. The point is now many of those who have served faithfully are now without the powerful UC Community organizations backed Friends to advocate for them. The hurting thing is the opposing community members to this hotel project are desperately trying to uphold the original vision of the established UC leaders and community organizations they represent. Now they find themselves at cross purposes. Any human, even if they do not agree, should understand their sense of betrayal. - W. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
