Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
Glenn wrote: FOCP leaders are cutting secret deals about control of our park. Ask the basketball players, if they were part of the decision to rip up their court and let it lay in ruins until their basketball groups GO AWAY. Ask the volleyball players if they were invited to send a representative of THEIR CHOOSING to the park A redesign planning committee. Interesting; I noticed that the sign at the basketball courts indicated that constuction would be done in October, but they were still in disarray when I went to the park recently. I thought it odd and a shame that they hadn't completed them on time. Regards, John Ellingsworth You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
Glenn and Tony, Please stop imagining my (anyone's) hurt feelings, or talking for me-others, to fuel this nonsense feud. To save your guess work, my positions are shown below. I want the park maintained and improved. Many Friends and many unaffiliated volunteers help do that. Those who do good work, with or without personal agenda, have my thanks. In the matters of removing litter, action not intention, gets my attention. My gratitude extends to those I know do the work, and those who do it without seeking credit or attention. In my travels through life and our neighborhood, I am often awed by the numbers and names of people doing good work. There are more people contributing, and often many who are unexpected or not credited. I have enjoyed many happy surprises in discovering some of the people who improve our quality of life and this neighborhood. I do not want to see to many permanent alterations. I was opposed to the Basketball court expansion. I remain opposed to many printed proposals including: Moving Nell Moving the Memorial Stone Adding a Dog Park Adding a Storage Shed for the Farmers of the weekly market. Removing healthy trees I am okay with the using the Park as a Playground for our youngest children. This was, after all, Clark's stated goal. And it fits with my beliefs and desires. But I don't think it should be reduced to a Recreation Center. I like it as an Urban Oasis. I like it as a place to find quiet and solitude, and as a place to bond friendships and families, and to walk dogs (on leashes and with poo-bags). I don't want Clark Park overused or abused. I do want to see better, and more diverse uses of our existing Rec Centers. No one can humiliate me but myself. I don't cede that power to Tony or Glenn or to any Community Organization. I manage quite well on my own. I don't mind occasional self congratulations. I believe that many Volunteers need a sincere invitation some recognition and thanks a sense that they are not Chumps but part of a surprisingly large volunteer force. I choose to say some of what I do to encourage others to speak up or join in. I do not let the dismissals of people who call me vain or attention seeking bother me. I am healed and encouraged by those who are moved to work beside me or who let me know, often off-list, that they have contributes in some other way. I also believe that there is value in Anonymous donations. Sometimes it lets us imagine who Anonymous is and lets us think well of people in general. It also lets Anonymous choose contacts, instead of being added to the list of those who are called upon to do, or contribute to, everything. I like Tony and his writing style. I value many of Glenn's writings. I read both with some skepticism. I don't believe Tony has or wants the representative power that Glenn assigns him. I also don't believe that FoCP is any where near as inclusive as Tony claims. Further, trying to exclude me is like trying to sweep water up hill. I am not afraid to tackle problem spots or people. I don't have the time to make any consistent, organized commitment to the Park, but I pick up litter on my walks through the park, and I jump in, vigorously, if I see a need and fell able to make a contribution of words or money. And I try to honor the other commitments that I make. I encourage all to pursue volunteering in the areas that hold interest for them. In this way, our community will be better served an with better spirit. All the best in 2008 and beyond. Liz On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:42:12 -0500 Glenn [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Folks, this is an important local issue. These local groups like FOCP and SHCA pretend that they are a stand in for a non existant village government. The list just saw West flex his power with a warning to Liz about the catch-22 she may find herself in. If I told someone to have a wonderful trip over the river on the Pine St. bridge , all of you would know my meaning. Of course, I could convince a stranger that I was trying to be sweet. How does one work with an FOCP representative other than West? West is the one who decides whom may participate in discussions with the FOCP and whom may not. He has made that perfectly clear on numerous occasions on this list and in person. Lot's of former board members from these groups have told me stories that were the same as my experiences. If someone is disagreeing with the inner circle in these groups, they are essentially punished, excluded and there is an organized attempt to humiliate them. The only way to interact with the organization is to kiss up to their leaders. But this hurts the whole community. When I tried to propose the Clark park farmer's market to the community via a spot on the FOCP agenda, I tried the accepted process. I approached the President face to face and politely asked for an opportunity. He told me that the community was opposed. There
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
Glenn wrote: Folks, this is an important local issue. These local groups like FOCP and SHCA pretend that they are a stand in for a non existant village government. The list just saw West flex his power with a warning to Liz about the catch-22 she may find herself in. If I told someone to have a wonderful trip over the river on the Pine St. bridge , all of you would know my meaning. Of course, I could convince a stranger that I was trying to be sweet. I'm wondering what Glenn's talking about here. I've been unable to find any notes from Tony mentioning Pine street or a bridge. How does one work with an FOCP representative other than West? West is the one who decides whom may participate in discussions with the FOCP and whom may not. He has made that perfectly clear on numerous occasions on this list and in person. Delusory isn't the word for this. Tony doesn't act as a gatekeeper for the FoCP, and he's never pretended to be one. People talk to me about park stuff, they talk to our board members, they come to our meetings, and they even join the organization every so often. We've also had non-members attend our board meetings. But Glenn seems to be fixated on Tony in a way that's far from realistic, accurate, or even healthy. When I tried to propose the Clark park farmer's market to the community via a spot on the FOCP agenda, I tried the accepted process. I approached the President face to face and politely asked for an opportunity. He told me that the community was opposed. There was no public meeting and no agenda spot. This was my first experience with the organization and I saw how incredibly destructive these associations have been to this community. Back when I took Glenn seriously, I asked about the Farmer's Market-- and everyone I spoke to said that people had been discussing it as far back as 1992, long before Glenn suggested it. The only reason there is a farmer's market at Clark park was because UCD decided that it was good for gentrification. The community was deprived the opportunity to hear from a community volunteer bringing a proposal to them at a public meeting. The good folks starting the farmers' markets wanted these as a benefit to the community and farmers, not for support of the Penn brand. According to Glenn, the FoCP President opposed the Farmer's Market, but only through the work of UCD did we actually get it. So why isn't he praising UCD for enacting the will of the community? How many times has this type of abuse of power occured and been cloaked? How many of our neighbors have similar stories? About _other_ community organizations, yeah, there are dozens. But about the FoCP? Just one. FOCP leaders are cutting secret deals about control of our park. Ask the basketball players, if they were part of the decision to rip up their court and let it lay in ruins until their basketball groups GO AWAY. Ask the volleyball players if they were invited to send a representative of THEIR CHOOSING to the park A redesign planning committee. Sure, ask them. They _were_ part of that decision. The basketball court reconstruction came about when state money was made available to rebuild six such courts in the city, and Rec and Jannie Blackwell's office got our court on the list. Making the project even easier was the desire of the Water Department to install a rainwater basin there. Generally speaking, the FoCP had very little to do with the planning (and UCD had none whatsoever) of the project. But we did bring the b-ball players to our meetings, and kept them informed throughout the process as best as we could. As for the lay in ruins business, Glenn's simply lying again. In addition to the contractor dragging his feet, there was a weeks-long delay while the Water Department issued a permit to attach their rainwater basin's drainage to the sewer mains under 43rd street. (The permits have been issued, but Lord knows if the contractor's done the attaching.) But we hope that the major work will be completed soon (we keep hearing Real Soon Now announcements), and the lines can be painted only in the spring, which is when we'll have the Grand Opening. We're certainly grateful for the improvements, and the replacement of a cracked, rusty and obsolete basketball court... but apparently Glenn feels that the old court was good enough for the b-ball players. As for the volleyball players, yes, they _were_ asked to send representatives. Matt Grubel, who's a volleyball player, invited them to our meetings many times. They never came. Gina came to a general membership meeting to suggest a permanent court installation, and we've been discussing this within the Board and PlanCom. Once again, Glenn's lying. Maybe he's ticked that the volleyballers didn't pick him to be their rep? You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
I thought it odd and a shame that they hadn't completed them on time. Yes John, it is. We don't know the details, of course, and there is most certainly some plausible excuse. Had some of the actual basketball players been allowed and invited into the process, they could keep the others informed through the grassroot networks that exist in communities. How difficult would it be to use a construction delay to cloak an effort to break-up the community whom has used that court for decades? Since the basketball players have no idea about anything involved with the project, they will simply break up and go away. That court might not be done for years as far as we know. It may have a fence and a lock on it so that FOCP can control it in the future. We simply have no idea. We are not allowed to participate and those claiming the right to make all decisions will not give us truthful answers. If I were a basketball player, I would conclude that I don't have a voice in my park. I'm a dog walker, a volleyball player, festival organizer, and I know for sure that none of us outside the inner circle of FOCP leaders have rights or a voice about the future of Clark park. Sincerely, Glenn. - Original Message - From: John Ellingsworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives Glenn wrote: FOCP leaders are cutting secret deals about control of our park. Ask the basketball players, if they were part of the decision to rip up their court and let it lay in ruins until their basketball groups GO AWAY. Ask the volleyball players if they were invited to send a representative of THEIR CHOOSING to the park A redesign planning committee. Interesting; I noticed that the sign at the basketball courts indicated that constuction would be done in October, but they were still in disarray when I went to the park recently. I thought it odd and a shame that they hadn't completed them on time. Regards, John Ellingsworth You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1237 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 11:04 AM You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
Glenn wrote: It may have a fence and a lock on it so that FOCP can control it in the future. We simply have no idea. We are not allowed to participate and those claiming the right to make all decisions will not give us truthful answers. If I were a basketball player, I would conclude that I don't have a voice in my park. We've been presenting information about the project at meetings and in our newsletter. The finished court will have three sides fenced in, before, with _no_ gate, and _no_ lock. Glenn, as usual, is making stuff up and presenting it as truth. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
Brian Are/Were there specific reasons for the construction delay? John Brian Siano wrote: Glenn wrote: It may have a fence and a lock on it so that FOCP can control it in the future. We simply have no idea. We are not allowed to participate and those claiming the right to make all decisions will not give us truthful answers. If I were a basketball player, I would conclude that I don't have a voice in my park. We've been presenting information about the project at meetings and in our newsletter. The finished court will have three sides fenced in, before, with _no_ gate, and _no_ lock. Glenn, as usual, is making stuff up and presenting it as truth. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
Matt your name has been used on the public listserv. I am sending you this cc as a courtesy. As for the volleyball players, yes, they _were_ asked to send representatives. Matt Grubel, who's a volleyball player, invited them to our meetings many times. They never came. Gina came to a general membership meeting to suggest a permanent court installation, and we've been discussing this within the Board and PlanCom. Once again, Glenn's lying. Maybe he's ticked that the volleyballers didn't pick him to be their rep? Matt does not claim that he ever asked the volleyball group to be their representative. I know that others have been making these claims and calling him a representative. You Siano, have now publicly involved Matt with your lies. I asked Matt directly if he ever claimed to be the representative of volleyball. His answer was no! You FOCP leaders constantly try this tactic. You can't assign an outside group's representative. In fact, the volleyball group has often come to me with their concerns and ideas. I founded the activity in 1983 and restarted it in 1996. I have a request to the members of FOCP from them which Tony has blocked since 2004. Matt knows all of this. This representative lie is a divisive tactic which is done often by FOCP. When FOCP leaders cannot win by bullying the leader of a park organization, they engage this trick. The gang tries to recruit a representative for the outside group. Mr Siano himself went for this bait. The character and leadership of the disobedient individual is attacked as usual. Someone is asked to replace the leader and this is promised to solve all the problems with FOCP. Over several years, I experienced this several times. Brian Siano was the fourth individual from the group, of which I was the undisputed leader, to be approached this way. FOCP leaders tried this with the Clark Park Music and Arts Community long before Brian Siano betrayed me. Mr Siano was a volunteer I recruited to the festival group. Mr West put Mr. Siano in charge of dealings with FOCP so that my legitimate leadership of the group could be circumvented. When I was on trial at the UCD/FOCP Quality of Life Task Force, Clark Park festivals were even referred to as Glenn's rock concerts not Siano's concerts. I told the list this story as it occured in 2004 when Mr. West convinced a Dept of Rec. employee to break a contract with me for the use of the city's mobile stage. Siano at his side. It's an ugly story to have to tell about one's neighbors. Nevertheless, it is an important story to be told. Matt is a friend of mine and he is not a party to Siano's lie about representation. Thanks Brian for helping to make these ugly tactics clear to the list and to Matt. Matt is not like these other FOCP characters. He asked volleyball players to come join FOCP and listen to FOCP plans with the best intentions. But he also understands what a representative of a group implies. Matt, I believe the volleyball players don't trust the FOCP organization. I told you about these representative claims and now you see it in action. This exchange was on the public listserv. Sorry that Siano decided to involve you. Take care, Glenn - Original Message - From: Brian Siano [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UC List UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives Glenn wrote: Folks, this is an important local issue. These local groups like FOCP and SHCA pretend that they are a stand in for a non existant village government. The list just saw West flex his power with a warning to Liz about the catch-22 she may find herself in. If I told someone to have a wonderful trip over the river on the Pine St. bridge , all of you would know my meaning. Of course, I could convince a stranger that I was trying to be sweet. I'm wondering what Glenn's talking about here. I've been unable to find any notes from Tony mentioning Pine street or a bridge. How does one work with an FOCP representative other than West? West is the one who decides whom may participate in discussions with the FOCP and whom may not. He has made that perfectly clear on numerous occasions on this list and in person. Delusory isn't the word for this. Tony doesn't act as a gatekeeper for the FoCP, and he's never pretended to be one. People talk to me about park stuff, they talk to our board members, they come to our meetings, and they even join the organization every so often. We've also had non-members attend our board meetings. But Glenn seems to be fixated on Tony in a way that's far from realistic, accurate, or even healthy. When I tried to propose the Clark park farmer's market to the community via a spot on the FOCP agenda, I tried the accepted process. I approached the President face to face and politely asked for an opportunity. He told me that the community was opposed
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
Glenn wrote: Matt your name has been used on the public listserv. I am sending you this cc as a courtesy. As for the volleyball players, yes, they _were_ asked to send representatives. Matt Grubel, who's a volleyball player, invited them to our meetings many times. They never came. Gina came to a general membership meeting to suggest a permanent court installation, and we've been discussing this within the Board and PlanCom. Once again, Glenn's lying. Maybe he's ticked that the volleyballers didn't pick him to be their rep? Matt does not claim that he ever asked the volleyball group to be their representative. I know that others have been making these claims and calling him a representative. You Siano, have now publicly involved Matt with your lies. I asked Matt directly if he ever claimed to be the representative of volleyball. His answer was no! It's a waste of time to refute all of Glen's ravings in detail-- and yes, they are _ravings-, utterly divorced from reality, and entirely products of Glenn's need to present himself as a put-upon activist. But: 1. Never said Matt was their representative. Said Matt had asked them to come. They didn't come. Didn't send a representative, either. Matt did present their concerns at our meetings, but he was very disappointed that they didn't come or appoint a representative. 2. It's revealing that while Glenn portrays himself as Mr. Volleyball, they didn't ask him to be their representative. 3. Glenn never recruited me for the Festival: I helped out because I liked the Festivals. Note how he has to believe that he's the source of all that's good and fine in the world. 4. Tony never put me in charge of any dealings with the Festival. He always dealt with Glenn directly. 5. Glenn no more owns the festivals than I do; they've been going on for thirty years or more, and while Glenn would love to think of himself as the festivals' heart and soul, the fact is that he's just one of many organizers over the years. I told the list this story as it occured in 2004 when Mr. West convinced a Dept of Rec. employee to break a contract with me for the use of the city's mobile stage. Siano at his side. It's an ugly story to have to tell about one's neighbors. Nevertheless, it is an important story to be told. 6. I've told the story before. Tony didn't try to have any contracts broken. In fact, Glenn failed to take responsibility for the stage, and tried to break an agreement he'd had with the FoCP and Rec. Ever since, he's been peddling this story about how he'd heroically prevented Tony and I from taking over the Festival. Ain't true, never was true, and no matter how often Glenn resurrects it, it never will be true. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
I don't want to annoy the list by addressing your crap about me. But this is important 1. Never said Matt was their representative. Said Matt had asked them to come. They didn't come. Didn't send a representative, either. Matt did present their concerns at our meetings, but he was very disappointed that they didn't come or appoint a representative. Matt and no one else from FOCP invited park groups to appoint a representative It's just a lie, Siano. I respect Matt's belief that organizations like yours can be reformed and community members should join. I respectfully disagree with him about this. Matt invited individuals from volleyball to come as individuals and get involved with FOCP. He was proud of the redesign plan and believes in it. He is an honest hard working volunteer and I hate to anger the reasonable members of FOCP by exposing the dirty laundry. I and others warn the volleyball players and others about the FOCP. Had Matt called the group together and invited the volleyball players to CHOOSE a representative to attend the planning committee, I would be a liar. But I am the one telling the truth. I do not blame individual FOCP Board members like Matt for the failure to gain control of the organization. I argued with him and some others about this but respect their beliefs. He knows my belief about notification of the time, date, and location of FOCP meetings, as by the way, IS REQUIRED ACCORDING TO FOCP BY-LAWS. He also knows my opinion about the divisiveness of assuming its OK for FOCP to lie about representatives for outside groups. He knows from his personal experience how some individuals are silenced, even as Board members, by abusive leaders. The FOCP members passed a motion to correct this representation problem several years ago and they believed that I would deliver a plan to them for their inspection. You are being dishonest to suggest that any park groups were ever encouraged to talk among themselves to choose a representative to join the planning committee. If you guys wanted to be inclusive, it is this simple: Hi Volleyball players. I'm Brian from the FOCP. We would like to invite you to send a representative from your group to some planning meetings. We are planning a redesign of our park and your opinions and ideas are important to us. Please talk among yourselves and choose a representative who can keep your group involved. You are an important group in this park and we want you to participate. Some from your group may want to join the FOCP because we want to do good things. But we want your group to send a representative to our planning committee regardless of how many of your members join FOCP It ain't rocket science, Siano! But it ain't the same as give us $15 dollars, then go away and keep your damn mouths shut. Inviting individuals to a dog and pony show where you promote a UCD agenda is not at all the same as inviting a stakeholder group to participate in planning. It is extremely dishonest to make this claim. People understand that they are being invited to give you $15 and not invited because their ideas or participation are welcome. Don't cry about no one coming to your stupid meetings. When FOCP acts like a responsible group, lots of people would get involved. You want people to give you money then you treat them like crap. Matt knows, the list knows, the community knows that your planning committee is closed and exclusive. Don't try to peddle a UCD style dog and pony show as an invitation to participate. Matt encouraged individuals to come to PRESENTATIONS. He is not allowed to invite any stakeholder group to CHOOSE a representative who will be treated respectfully and invited to the planning group. You're trying to put a spin on your dog and pony shows that is just plain dishonest and unsupportable. Matt, Again I am sorry that your name is being tossed about. Glenn - Original Message - From: Brian Siano [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UC List UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives Glenn wrote: Matt your name has been used on the public listserv. I am sending you this cc as a courtesy. As for the volleyball players, yes, they _were_ asked to send representatives. Matt Grubel, who's a volleyball player, invited them to our meetings many times. They never came. Gina came to a general membership meeting to suggest a permanent court installation, and we've been discussing this within the Board and PlanCom. Once again, Glenn's lying. Maybe he's ticked that the volleyballers didn't pick him to be their rep? Matt does not claim that he ever asked the volleyball group to be their representative. I know that others have been making these claims and calling him a representative. You Siano, have now publicly involved Matt with your lies. I asked Matt directly if he ever claimed
Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives
Thanks Liz. Your comments make sense to me. But I'd like to be clear. I wasn't attempting to manage anyone's hurt feelings. I was commenting on Mr. West's text which involved you. The Boards of these civic organizations do not have representatives chosen by outside groups and individuals, and these do not function like governments. We are not constituents and board members do not represent us. If their leaders suggest that they do, it must be challenged. These groups are not inclusive and you seem to agree. I think we disagree about how much these become exclusive to both groups and individuals. And about how much ugliness goes on behind the scene. To be told to work through a representative when there is no system of representation is a catch-22 dilemma. The key to the intention I see was when Mr. West reminded you that he was not your representative. The list has seen Mr. West, for several years, use his power and perogatives as leader of the FOCP. If he is not your representative, then who should you or any of us go to when we have business with FOCP? I detected a stylistic element I've become familiar with in Mr. West's text. When I read these claims that FOCP is inclusive, transparent, etc., you need to remember that the list has watched me personally be excluded from FOCP discussions by Mr. West. This is not a feud. It is my community too just as much as it is the leader of any civic association, and this is an abuse of power, victim, relationship between Mr. West and myself. I'm not a silent victim. I should not be silent either because Mr. West is the leader of a civic club and I am not. I offer this discussion and these comments with all sincerity. Best, Glenn - Original Message - From: Elizabeth F Campion To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [UC] civic associations and representatives Glenn and Tony, Please stop imagining my (anyone's) hurt feelings, or talking for me-others, to fuel this nonsense feud. To save your guess work, my positions are shown below. I want the park maintained and improved. Many Friends and many unaffiliated volunteers help do that. Those who do good work, with or without personal agenda, have my thanks. In the matters of removing litter, action not intention, gets my attention. My gratitude extends to those I know do the work, and those who do it without seeking credit or attention. In my travels through life and our neighborhood, I am often awed by the numbers and names of people doing good work. There are more people contributing, and often many who are unexpected or not credited. I have enjoyed many happy surprises in discovering some of the people who improve our quality of life and this neighborhood. I do not want to see to many permanent alterations. I was opposed to the Basketball court expansion. I remain opposed to many printed proposals including: Moving Nell Moving the Memorial Stone Adding a Dog Park Adding a Storage Shed for the Farmers of the weekly market. Removing healthy trees I am okay with the using the Park as a Playground for our youngest children. This was, after all, Clark's stated goal. And it fits with my beliefs and desires. But I don't think it should be reduced to a Recreation Center. I like it as an Urban Oasis. I like it as a place to find quiet and solitude, and as a place to bond friendships and families, and to walk dogs (on leashes and with poo-bags). I don't want Clark Park overused or abused. I do want to see better, and more diverse uses of our existing Rec Centers. No one can humiliate me but myself. I don't cede that power to Tony or Glenn or to any Community Organization. I manage quite well on my own. I don't mind occasional self congratulations. I believe that many Volunteers need a sincere invitation some recognition and thanks a sense that they are not Chumps but part of a surprisingly large volunteer force. I choose to say some of what I do to encourage others to speak up or join in. I do not let the dismissals of people who call me vain or attention seeking bother me. I am healed and encouraged by those who are moved to work beside me or who let me know, often off-list, that they have contributes in some other way. I also believe that there is value in Anonymous donations. Sometimes it lets us imagine who Anonymous is and lets us think well of people in general. It also lets Anonymous choose contacts, instead of being added to the list of those who are called upon to do, or contribute to, everything. I like Tony and his writing style. I value many of Glenn's writings. I read both with some skepticism. I don't believe Tony has or wants the representative power that Glenn assigns him. I also
